The Baby Name Wizard

Because of their link to celebrities who themselves have that cultural marker. Ava Gardner. Olivia ... um ... uh ... Newton-John?

The subsequent "revival" makes both those names' histories look flat and insignificant, but if you cut the spike out of the graph, they also look like they'd show postwar declines that are pretty significant relative to where their previous popularity was (Ava in particular, which drops off the charts altogether in the 70's). If they had rallied merely back to their original level of popularity, the graph would look more U-shaped, no?

this ones that you have studied.. all have a's on the end.. maybe its the sound that makes them seem old fashioned.. or a realtion to things of the past. I hear Emma.. which is closly linked to Emily.. Olivia.. Olive.. and for Ava.. I think of that song Ava Maria..

I'd agree with Smeghead - I'd say we link these to Ava Gardner and well, maybe Olivia Newton-John. And because they were adults in the 50's and 60's we somewhat assume they were more popular 20-30 years before when they were born. I picture Olivia as Victorian age (think Road to Avonlea and Sarah's Aunt Olivia). I really don't think of Ava as that old, though Eva I picture as more classic-hispanic so that one probably has more history. I see Ava as 1950's-ish (when exactly was Ava Gardner popular? Her career was from the 40's to the 70's with a few movies as laste as the 80's. She was born in 1922, died in 1990) I actually was surprised to see Emma as so popular in the late 1800s. I always assumed it was more of an old-fashioned feel than truly old fashioned. Shows how much I know.

BTW - the song is Ave Maria if you're talking about the Catholic classic.

Olivia de Havilland - maybe parents are thinking of Gone With the Wind in 1939 ...

...and along with Ashley, Vivian and Scarlett, GWTW names are in vogue somewhat.
When I go back 3 or 4 generations I get Marys, Catherines, Sarahs, Janes and Anns. Nothing earth shattering. It's actually my grandmothers - Hazel and Cecelia - that have the names that are a bit more retro sounding.

(For the record, I was kidding about Olivia Newton-John for want of a celebrity from Ava Gardner's era.)

Could be that other than Ava and Olivia are more coming into their own than being revivied? They were obviously used enough to be in the top 1000 names for the 100 or so years. They may just be now be coming into popularity.

Great post, Laura! I'm curious to hear your analysis!

It reminds me of one of your earlier posts about the fake-Irish names. Sounds like the fake-antique are the new fake-Irish.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

I don't think Olivia Newton-John is too far off the mark. Lots of kids, like myself, grew up watching Grease and listening to her music, and are now of child-bearing age. She may be the one that put the name in the back of our minds.

Ava Gardner wasn't American though, was she? She was northern European (German?). Maybe Ava doesn't show up on the census records b/c there were lots of immigrant grandmothers who weren't born here named Ava.

Good point, laurie! And Olivia is better sounding than Sandy to me. Someone mentioned Olivia de Haviland she was pretty popular even outside of GWTW, so that could be an option. It's interesting to run Emily (number one name last year) in the Voyager, too. Its never had this much popularity. Same with Abigail, Hannah, and Isabella. To round out the "old-fashioned names" in the 10 ten, SAmantha isn't as high as it was 10 years ago, but still much higher than it was before the 90's. Ashley peaked in the 90's but was non-exsistant befoer the 60's. I'd say Madison is the only name in the top 10 that doesn't have the "old-fashioned" charm.

Olivia to me is a Shakespearean name (Twelfth Night), and therefore has an old-fashioned air.

Hi Dana, Ava Gardner was born right down the road from me, in Smithfield, North Carolina. There's a museum dedicated to her in this area. I think that it's gotten a LOT more popular recently thanks to the upsurge in the name's popularity. How's that for marketing?

One name that confuses me is Ellen. I feel like it ought to be much more popular than it is (it's now in the 500s). With the popularity of Ella and all the -ella names, added to the popularity of girls' names beginning in "E" (Emily, Emma, etc.) and boys' names ending in -en, I can't understand why it's falling on the charts instead of rising. Any thoughts?

I agree that these names are certainly not 'revivals' and are not 'having a come-back', but to me (and probably other young people of child-bearing age nowadays) they qualify as 'antique' names simply by the fact that they've been known and heard of for over a hundred years. Especially when our friends are naming their kids unique and new (substitute 'made-up') names.

When choosing our daughter's name, I liked the fact that our grandparents thought it was old-fashioned even though her name has never been popular, even now (and it's on Laura's Timeless list). Just because a name didn't have a huge following way back when, doesn't mean it's not antiquated in our modern way of thinking.

Elizabeth - My thoughts on Ellen are that it's too plain for the trends right now. Each of the rising names that has that older flair are more lyrical (see the -a/-ah/ee endings, etc.) and more "romantic" if you will. Ellen will come back when the simpler, less frilly names return, in my opinion.

Ellen brings to mind Ellen Degeneris and she may not be seen to really embody the feminine ideals that appeal to parents.

I'm strongly considering Ellen, as it was my much-beloved paternal grandmother's name. It does lack the same kind of feminine musicality as other variants, but it's a definite classic. You can also soften it with an Ellie nickname.

I agree with Ellen as a bit plain, especially when it has sound-alike variants like Elaine that sound prettier and more sophisticated.

I just had to comment since my daugher (2) is named Ellen! She is named after my beloved grandmother and we've loved her name. It's uncommon but easy to pronounce. We thought we'd use Ellie, Elle, or Ella as a nickname but she is just 'Ellen'. We softened it with Mira as a middle name -- latin for 'wonder' and perfect after a rough pregnancy.

Liz - Elle might be another nn option for Ellen.

i have a 3 y.o. daughter named Olivia and i named her that because it is a name that will never go out of style. it is timeless and classic, not fake antique. i am due anyday with girl #2 and will name her Ava. Both girls are not named after any movie stars. I just like the sound and look of both names. Simply beautiful!

I think there are different explanations for different names.

Olivia, for instance, sounds antique because of its general lack of use before recent times, and its similarity to the more hugely popular Olive (which still sounds like a salty green fruit to the modern ear.) Antique by proxy.

Ava may have some antique by proxy cache too. (Sounds akin to Ida and Eva and Ima and Ora). But I think it is more legitimately an antique. It had a bump in the 50s, presumably because of Ava Gardner. But if you disregard that, I think it might fit the pattern of its vowel-consonent-vowel kinfolk. What is actually surprising to me is that Ava is the most attractive to our ear DESPITE its popularity bump in the mid-century. Must not have been popular enough to seem middle-aged now.

Abigail, which a commentor offers up is undoubtedly a legitimate antique. I think its big popularity was pre-1880 though. Sounds colonial to me.

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I think if a general rule could be stated, it is that we are collectively agreeing on what sounds like an antique prototype. A few early trend setters pick a name that sounds like antique names sounded (or how we think they sounded, where is Mary?) and the chosen name just sky rockets to more popularity than it ever had.

Everyone is just skimming the same cutting edge and landing in the same place.

Chritiana, I find it fascinating that you think of Samantha as an old-fashioned name - although looking at Laura's Name Voyager I see you're right, it was around although unusual in the 19th century. I'd alweays thought of it as a purely 1960s name (in the UK)

As a child of the 70s, Olivia makes me think first and foremost of "Sesame Street," not of my great great grandmothers (whose names included Bessie, Nettie and May Belle but also the much-lovlier-to-my-ears Alma and Naomi).

I found the graph for Emma amazing - in NZ it was a classic in the '70s along with Hannah, Sarah, Kate, Alice, Clare and Lucy. The trend continued in the 80's and 90's with Victoria, Caroline, Annabelle and Rebecca. Olivia was spot on - in the late 70's and early 80's there were plenty of them around in the preschools my children attended.
I'm out of the loop pretty much with no grandchildren as yet - my children's friends have Finn and Maia, Zeke and Angela, and Jackson and Elliot.
Samantha and Tabitha were popular for a period coinciding with the TV series.

Instead of Ellen, how about Eleanor or Evelyn? These names are being revived in my region.

If my memory serves me correctly, Abigail is actual Biblical in it's origins, so it goes back pretty far!

Keren - I consider Samantha old fashioned because of a series of books for young girls where the Victorian era character was named Samantha (American Girl books). They're probably not as popular in the UK! :-)

I remember thinking that Olivia on the later years of the Cosby Show (Denise's step-daughter) was an interesting name. Surprising even. Not that it was so unusual, but that it belonged to a young girl (Raven Symone of That's So Raven and the Cheetah Girls now). Who knows why I htought it was an old lady name?

Oops - sorry above posted by me and I typed Cheryl to address my first comment. Sorry!

i agree with the people who say these "old-fashioned" names are being chosen just in contrast with the new-fangled, invented names. i always thought that with clothing and music trends, for example, each new trend was something that previously was considered completely awful. like after the fluorescents of the
80s, we had the neutrals of the '90s. and maybe like if hip hop and black culture are really trendy, then i would expect cowboy and a sort of "white trash" music and look to be popular after. (although this is sort of off since hip hop and black culture seem to be kind of on a long-term up.)

other than that, do you think the character olivia on law and order: svu is influenceing the popularity?

also, i have liked the name ellen for almost ten years. that was when i first heard of an actual person (as opposed to a character or celebrity) with the name and i guess it just sounded unusual to me (besides it being classic).

While we're on the subject of Ava, I have to say I'm not sure how most people pronounce it, never having met one. My mother always said Ay-va for Ava Gardner, but I know some others say A-va... and also some people say Ay-va for Eva, if they're Spanish/Italian. It all gets a bit confusing. What do you think?
If it's A-va, I really don't like the way it sounds, personally.

Interesting discussion though, which I'm enjoying. I really like the names our grandparents and great-grandparents possessed. My grandmother's SILs were Alice, Lily and May which I love. However, she was Hilda, which leaves something to be desired! My other grandmother and her sisters were Louise, Dorothea and Henrietta which I'm not so keen on.
Of the old-fashioned names I also like Flora, Violet, Rose (my middle name which I hated as a kid), Grace, Georgia, Beatrice, Josephine, Clara and Amelia. I believe those are all genuinely retro!

Valerie, in Spanish/Italian Eva is pronounced EH-va, not AY-va.

I pronounce Ava as AY-va, but I've read it's also an Iranian name (completely separate from the English Ava) which is pronounced as AH-va.

Elizabeth- I wish Ellen would come back! I've become very tired of the delicate -a names of the momment. Ellen may come back, but not for a while. It was at its peak in the 1880's, but it was still hugely popular until it fell dramatically through the 60's and 70's. Expect this name to come back in anther sixty years or so, along with a whole new batch of Annes and Susans. Can't wait for that!

I think, for myself at least, that many of the names with "old-fashioned" appeal entered my consciousness through literature and popular culture.

I think, firstly, that novelists and other artists may have chosen names that were not, perhaps, the more popular names of the time in which (or about which) they are writing, but rather the sort of names that would express something about the characters they had created.

Names like Isabel, Charlotte and Olive remind me Henry James; Lily Sophy, Ellen and Grace make me think Edith Wharton; Cordelia, Helena, Viola, Olivia etc are Shakespearean to my ears. And so on and so on . . .

I associate the name Olivia, too, with actress Olivia de Havilland, who was in several really lovely classic films (The Heiress, based on Henry James' Washington Square, is among the best).

So, while these names may not all have been in the top 100, they have hung around in popular imagination.

Interesting, though, that one of my favorite authors of all time, Jane Austen, chose what must have been the most common of all names for her heroines: Emma, Elizabeth, Jane, & Anne.

Ditto with Emily and Charlotte Bronte, who called their heroines Catherine, Jane and Lucy.

Cheryl, I found your comment:

*I think if a general rule could be stated, it is that we are collectively agreeing on what sounds like an antique prototype.*

really intriguing. What is that prototype? Are we saying it's somethng like a name with a generally agreed upon spelling (as in, not kre8tive) which follows the vowel-consonant-vowel sound, and which was not popular in the 70's, 80's or 90's?

I'm just curious if you've detected some sort of formula that you find gives a name the semblance of "vintage" status.

I was told to repost this on a more current thread, so here I go!
I was searching the internet for "Claudia" and I found this website! We're expecting our second child in April. My daughter, Cassandra Marie, is 4. We actually call her by her full first name. I've toyed with the idea of a "C" theme... If this baby is a boy, he'll be named Everett James or Everett William. As for girl's names, I'm liking Claudia, Annabelle, Dahlia, Charlotte, and Ava. Opinions on any of these names? Any suggestions?

I think Ellen holds up much better for adults. CEOs named Ella? Not so much. Artists, maybe. (Fitzgerald) Ella is pretty, but cutesy, and to me it sounds like just a nickname. But I'm also kind of tired of the -a names.

My mom gave each of us a name that started with an E because her middle name started with an E, too, Edris. (Eeee-driis) Her fourth daughter would have been Bethany Ellen, as she loves to remind us all the time in hopes we'll use the name! (Not gonna happen.)

And as for recycling these names - of course we do! Everything old is new again: fashion, furniture, appliances and yes, names.

We have an Olivia who just about to become a teenager. A babysitter of my childhood had spoken very warmly of her Aunt Olivia, and the pleasant associations stayed with me. In line at the grocery store several years later, I was shocked to see this former babysitter on the cover of a women's magazine. Turns out she was the daughter of Joan Fontaine...which made her the neice of Olivia de Havilland. Small world, no?

Eleni when you said:
Ditto with Emily and Charlotte Bronte, who called their heroines Catherine, Jane and Lucy.

What about Chalotte Bronte's heroine Shirley? An early example of the surname to boy's name to girl's name syndrome I'd say.

Laura I wish you'd create a name voyager for the UK ( and lots of other countries while you're at it!!) it'd be so interesting to compare the trends. Emma and Samantha for example are definitely names for 30-somethings in the UK, not so much for babies.

Very interesting conversation!

My 11 month old daughter is Violet Grace, which I loved for it's old fashioned sound/feel. To me it's also very feminine and strong.

Of course I'm always trying to think of baby names to go with Violet and am having a hard time finding something to match the intensity of Violet.

So far, I'm liking Ruby, Eva, Esme, and Olivia. It's funny to me how each changes the very feel of Violet when I say them together (Violet and Ruby, or Violet and Esme).

Violet and Olivia look a little like they are anagrams of eachother..although I know they are not really.

I like Violet and Ruby together, sounds like a particularly lush paintbox. Then you could have a Scarlett, Indigo, Jet ummmm...

Jen - I like your selections over all. Annabelle is growing on me, but I read a book once where there was a not-so-nice character named Annabelle and they called her Banana-belle behind her back. Dahlia is my favorite because i love flower names. I also love the sound of Claudia, but I'm not crazy about it's meaning.

Got to agree with Abby on Ella being a younger name - someone suggested a few months ago that you should always try out the name with Chief Justice in front of it! I have a hard time hearing Chief Justice Ella Smith. I think it's a very pretty name, don't get me wrong. And I love it as a nn.

How about Iris Hope to go with Violet Grace?

Jen: With the current movie The Black Dahlia, that name strikes me as kind of dark and scary.

I don't know how Eva is pronounced in Italian, but in Spanish it is "Ay-vah." All "e"s in Spanish are pronounced like the long "a" in English.

Maya

Another name that has that old-fashioned sound, and that I think is both strong and feminine, and also intense, is Scarlett. I love the name Violet, by the way. I just noticed both names end in 'let'.

I know this might sound silling.. but what about Tinka.. I think Violet and Tinka sound very good together.. I heard that name off off a movie.. and I think its really striking!

I know this might sound silly.. but what about Tinka.. I think Violet and Tinka sound very good together.. I heard that name off off a movie.. and I think its really striking!

A baby with the name Violet gets kudos everywhere she goes. People love this name for babies! Of course I loved it, but I didn't know I'd get the kind of reaction that I do when I take her places and people ask her name.

I absolutely love Scarlett, but my hubs doesn't (weirdo. ha ha). But maybe I can still talk him into it. He wouldn't go for Hope either. I like Hope, but it doesn't have the intensity of Violet and I worry about that (why? I dunno).

Ruby I go back and forth on. I can't decide if it's fabulous or scary. I want to love it, but do I? hmmm...

I also love Dahlia, but the legend of the Black Dahlia has always kept me considering it seriously.

I love the name Violet. It's funny, but a while ago I saw three adorable little girls, the oldest probably six and the youngest three, playing together in the park. They had dark hair cut in short, page-boy style bobs.

They were called Violet, Ruby and Iris. I found their names really charming and refreshing at the time (I still like them, but I can recognize them as part of a larger trend now).

I still have not met many babies names Iris, which is, I think, the most classic and strongest of the bunch.
So, what about Violet and Iris?

Oh, and Keren: great point about Shirley! It was a surname /boy's name and an interesting (and telling) choice for what is widely regarded as as Bronte's most "feminist" novel. I suppose it's another example of how qualities of strength, independence and spirit are associated with boyish names (but Bronte didn't always do this, and I'm glad, because I for one believe in the strength and dignity of JANE).

It's also the only novel she wrote that I haven't yet read. Hmm.

Tinka...my husband would never, ever go for that.

Though I could definitely see it as a nickname.

And Iris I'm not wild about. Sorry, I missed seeing that part before (I just saw Hope).

I'm also considering Zoe. I like the sound of Violet and Zoe together. Zoe means life and it's strong. And we call Violet V, so then we'd have V and Z.

Though I still like Scarlet/Scarlett best.

Oh, Maya, I forgot you mentioned Esme as a possiblity. It's my favorite of your choices, and it definitely gets my vote.

I've already raved about Esme; I think it's great on it's own. But I think that with Violet it's even better, and my reasoning is that many other choices run the risk of sounding kind of gimmicky. Violet can be a color, and paired with Scarlett or Ruby or Amber it comes off as thematic naming.

(I don't know why, but I'm not crazy about thematic naming - I know I'm contradicting myself here, as I volunteered Iris, which would give you flower-themed names, but I wasn't thinking about it at the time . . . not that there's anything *wrong* with thematic naming!)

Violet is very interesting in that way -the name definitely changes depending on the names surrounding it: it can sound delicate and dainty (as in "shy violet") alongside Hope, or tougher, more like a gal with moxie, alonside Ruby.

But Esme lets Violet maintain it's independence, and adds (I think) a little old-world elegance.

Delancy has been watching All I Wanna Do. I love your name, by the way. Recently read a book about a girl named Delancy.

Maya - I really like Zoe with Violet. And while I would stay away from the cheese factor of silly thematic names (Muffy and Buffy anyone?) I think slightly unusual names like Violet and Scarlett or Violet and Iris or Dahlia or some other not often used flower name would be cool - especially if you're into flowers. Or colors. Are you an artist or gardener by any chance? As many of the posters here have pointed out, often it is the parental personality that comes out in the naming process. In agreeance with Eleni I would say something like Rose with Violet might be too much.

I have never liked the name Ruby even though I know a very sweet old lady named Ruby. Just can't get past the image of an old-time prostitute for whatever reason (don't mean to offen anyone if they have/like this name - that's just what comes to my mind)

I don't really have anything to add except that I wanted to give a "shout out" to "smeghead" who posted first. A nice big Red Dwarf salute to you. :)

Another Olivia that might be influencing moms today is Mrs. Walton, mom of John-Boy and all the rest. The show was set in the 30s? 40s? and she was middle aged then which means she would have been born around the turn of the century. She's always the first Olivia I think of.

When I hear Olivia.. I think Aunt Olivia.. of of Road to Avonlea.. I think that is what gives it the old feel.. I like the name.. but I think of the word Liver...I know its not that close.. just like I like the name Oliver.. but Liver.. makes me have some bad feelings towards it.. What about Bridget to go with Violet or Lacey.. and I agree with the posts above.. another colour name sounds like a theme.. or a flower..

Ooh, I like Lacey with Violet. That's adorable.

what about Katerina.. and Violet.. or Portia kinda shakespeare although I like Lacey and Violet together too..

Lots to think about, but that's good because I love thinking about names.

Now I'm thinking Ruby is too much (I'm not a painter or a gardener). And Violet and Esme do sound good together - the one thing that keeps me from Esme is that there is a character Violet from the Lemony Snickett books - *and* an evil character named Esme Squalor. I hate it that the author had to do that - I love Esme and I know he's taking it from the JD Salinger story (which I love & why I like the name) but I hate to think of Esme in an evil villain sort of way. But I don't think it would deter me too much.

Anyway! Thanks to everyone for discussing this with me. I'm not huge on thematic naming either so, in the event that we need a girl name in the next year or two, it probably will not end up being a flower or color name.

But time will tell. I wouldn't rule out a flower name for a middle name (Esme Rose).

Meant to mention before the name Amelie. It's one of my favorite movies, similar to the classic Emily, yet different.

Eleni,

No. I don't think there's a formula. And the prototype is the particular popular name chosen to represent a category of antique names.
I think this is the case with Ava anyway. There were many "Vowel-Consonent-Letter 'A'" name at the end of the 1880's. Ada was particularly huge. But Ava (however it was chosen) came to represent that pattern to us. I don't think there WAS a Vowel/Consonent/A, 3-letter name popular in the 1970s-90s, was there?

I think this is also the case with Ellie, which the BabyNameWizard indicates isn't much of an antique. But, there were many "llie", "nnie", "ttie" and "ssie" names. Ellie is our representation of that pattern. There were certainly names of this pattern more recently (Jennie, Hallie), but thanks to Eleanor, this is the one that sounds antique right now.

I looked around in an attempt to PREDICT the upcoming hot names (vs. explaining the current ones) and haven't gone beyond noticing that Ellie wasn't big in 1906. Gem & Flower names might be a start.

I just had a look at the wizard, and it turns out that Hallie has a "classic revival Curve" and that Jennie was popular at the turn of the century and didn't really catch fire during the Jennifer-craze.

I am going to be unpopular and declare Ellie (my own grandmother's nickname!) a "forgery"!

Still at a loss for predictions though. (I mean who saw Evelyn coming?! That still amazes me!)

Jennie/Jenny did catch fire for Jennifers in England in the 60's. It was pretty much the norm to use the diminutive. I'm always surprised when US Jennifers aren't necessarily known as Jenny.

Esme sounds like a nickname, not a given name, to me. Probably because my first exposure to it was in the Terry Pratchett books, where it's a nickname for Esmerelda.

Eleni - Iris, Ruby and Violet 'go' nicely together - I just have trouble with the 'go together' concept. Are these children individuals or a matched set, like poodles or cushions? In a posh decorating magazine several years ago there was a family of children pictured, all in nice smocked dresses with identical short bobs, like little clones. It was seriously scary.
Ruby and Iris are pretty but I'm stuck in a time warp as I knew two elderly ladies by those names - once I meet a couple of little girls name Iris or Ruby it will become easier.
Tinka? Really unfamiliar - Tinker is still a popular dog's name. Again, meeting a child by that name might help.
Shirley was Anne of Green Gables' maiden name and one of her sons was named that too.
Melissa - one of the 70's Olivias in our neighberhood was always called Liver by her elder sister.

Valerie,

I am sure there are plenty of Jennys in the U.S. (I think probably Jenny is more common than Jennie, though I knew a Jeni). But apparently they (Jennie at least, I didn't look the others up) were nicknames rather than what appeared on the birth certificate.

Reading this post finally sums up the reason for all the names I can't stand. No offense to anyone who uses them, it's just interesting to me to finally have a category for the names I hate like Isabella, Olivia, Ava, and Hannah - they're all trying to sound like antiques but, to my ear, not succeeding.

Who am I to talk though - I love androgynous names for girls. My 6-month old daughter is named Parker. I get some odd looks and I'm sure she'll get them too eventually, as well as get mistaken for a boy when someone reads her name.

I do love Esme though. For Esme With Love and Squalor is the greatest story ever. Read it here http://www.freeweb.hu/tchl/salinger/squalor.html if you never have

I love Violet and Amelie. I think that it is so close to the classic name Emily that it gains strength from it, and that it being different also gives it strength.

R - what about Queen Isabella of Spain? 16thC?

You can hardly get more antique than Hannah, it's in the bible..

I know what you mean though R, I have the same reaction to Amelia. Too self-consciously cutesy Victoriana for me.

Thanks for posting the link to the story. What was Lemony Snicket thinking?

Always interesting comments here! I have to speak to the person who sees Samantha as a Victorian name because of its use in the American Girl book series for a 1904 character. I think you'd have to have searched far and wide to find a real life Samantha in 1904 America. My mother was born in 1906 and was a Gertrude. Her friends had names like Adelaide, Winifred, Helen, Mary, Margaret, and Elizabeth. And several more Gertrudes too!

Some names are actually coming back like: Lucy, Isabel(le), Helena, Adeline, Adelaide, Sophie.

Many names are twists on names that were popular 100 years ago:

Aline (1910/1920) / Alina(2000)
Lillian(1900) Lillie(1890) / Lily (2000), Lil(l)iana (2000)
Jennie (1890) / Jennifer (70's) / Jenna (2000)
Olive (1890) / Olivia (2000)
Helen (1910) Helene (1910) / Helena (coming back)
Lucille (1910) Lucy (1890) / Lucia(2000)
Sophie (1920) / Sophia (2000)
Isabel (1910) Isabelle (1910)/ Isabella (2000)
Adelaide (1890) Adele (1910) Adeline (1910) / Adeline & Adelaide coming back
Angeline (1910) Angelina (1910) / Angela (70's) / Angelina (2000)
Pauline (1920)/ Paulette (40's)/ Paula (50's) / Paulina (2000)
Elaine (40's) / Elaina (2000)

Lillie was actually popular at the turn of the century, not Lily.

Names ripe for comback:

Eloise or Eloisa
Irene/ Irena Irina
Louise/ Louisa (top 100 in Uk)
Dorothea(1910) Dorothy(1920) / Dorothea
Adela Adelina Adelia

I always thought the popularity of Ava was tied to the beautiful Kate Beckinsale who played the gorgeous, glamorous hard-to-get iconic girlfriend of Howard Hughes, Ava Gardner, in The Aviator. The Aviator grossed over 100M in box tickets sales in the US alone.

No, you guys are totally right, of course those names I listed (all 4 in the top 10 last year by the way) have obviously been used for 100s of years. I can't explain why they seem like such fake antiques to me. Maybe it is that Olivia, Ava, and Hannah sound like old and old-fashioned women to my ear. The names sound like they should have fallen out of style 100 years ago - and stayed that way. Oh, lump Sophia/Sophie, Ruby, Iris, and Rose in that group too. Ugh. But I wonder what it is that makes me hate those but love Violet, Scarlett, Ella, and Abigail.

But really, what do I know? 5 of the names I hate are in the top 11 last year. Clearly many think they are beautiful and have every right to. Laura, any insight as to why some love a few names in a group and can't stand others?

Oh, btw, never knew about Esme Squalor from Lemony Snicket. Love that Salinger inside joke (see the short story link above) even if she's an evil character!

How about one of these to go with Violet:

Amabelle
Audrey
Julia

i hope this is not off topic but someone brought up the name Lillie/Lily. i sort of like this name but it has connotations of whiteness for me. like it sort of makes me think if a white person uses it, it's veering toward white pride, and if a non-white person uses it, it's like... some kind of weird "i wish i was white" thing. okay maybe i'm crazy. and the asian teenage lilly i knew was sweet and smart and the baby lily i know has sweet, smart parents. (hrm, i'm not crazy about my mom's 60-something chinese-american friend lily though)

To go with Violet;
How about Alexa, Bronwyn, Claire or Miranda.
Also mentioned in an earlier post, Anastasia, Mariah, Evangeline and Elise. Also, something about "Tinka" made me think of Tatiana or Veronika for names.

Back to this idea of fake antique names, I'm wondering if we checked Olive instead of Olivia and Eve/Eva instead of Ava if we would get the results we first anticipated. Just as Emma turns up rather than Emily. Perhaps some of our antique names have a slight twist from the original. Just a guess.

I think the reason why Hannah, Ava, etc are becoming more popular has to do with the -a endings Laura talked about in a recent post. Ava in particular I am hearing EVERYWHERE in girls aorund my DD (1 year old)' age. I know 4 Avas but only 1 Emily!

I also wanted to touch on the name Ellen vs Ella. I really like Ellen, I think it's a nicer version than Helen, and correct me if I'm wrong don't they have the same origin? But I prefer Ellen over Elaine hands down. Elaine is the character from Seinfeld for me.

Also to respond to Maya - for a girl's name to go with Violet I really like Esme or Zoe. Zoe feels more modern, Esme feels more unusual, but I love them both!

Props to Karen K. for linking older names to their similar current names!

What if we look at Laura's message from a different angle. Below are the "true" antiques from the late 1800's. Why haven't some of these come back?

1880-1900 Top Tens:
Mary
Anna
Emma
Elizabeth
Minnie
Margaret
Ida
Alice
Bertha
Sarah
Florence
Ethel
Clara
Helen
Ruth
Ethel
Marie
Lillian

In England and Wales the top 10 in 1904 was:
Mary
Florence
Doris
Edith
Dorothy

and for boys:
William
John
George
Thomas
Arthur

And in Scotland (1900)
Mary
Margaret
Elizabeth
Annie
Jane
Agnes
Isabella
Catherine
Janet
Helen

John
James
William
Robert
Alexander
George
Thomas
David
Andrew
Charles

I like all those classic names for boys, and don't think they have ever fallen out of popularity (not in the UK anyway). Why is it that people are happier to use classics for boys than they are for girls? Most of the girls' names that Rachel lists do sound good to me. The ones that sound too old to my ear are: Margaret, Agnes and Janet. I was surprised not to see Victoria in the England and Wales list, considering good old Queen Vic died in 1901. Rachel, do you have the stats for Ireland as well?

More "new" names that are tweaks on old fashioned names:

Carolina, Mariela, Annabella, Annalise, Anneliese

These names are twists on old names, sound fresh without sounding too old. And right now the "a" ending on a super long frilly name is so popular.

This isn't a new trend, parents have been tweaking old standards for a very long time. Another example:

1880's Carrie, Caroline / 30's Carlene/40's Carol, Carolyn /50's Carleen / 70's Carla / 90's Carly / 2000's Carlee, Caroline, Carolina

- ie ending at the turn of the century.
- lene, leen ending in the 30's - 50's
- Carol (plain & simple), - lyn in 40's
- Carla 70's (add an a, not super frilly)
- y ending 70's
- 2000 ee, & Carolina (super, frilly, long, with an a ending or elle)

Another pattern:

1910's Marie /20's Mariette /30's Marilyn /40's Marilee / 50's Mari / 60's Maria / 90's Mariah , Maris(s)a / 2000 Mariela

Ann-, Ros- follow similar trends.

Carolina- trend may be due to hispanic population increase

Eleni, your mention of Jane Austen reminded me of her wonderful use of naming "fashion" in *Persuasion* to comment on her own rapidly-changing times.

The younger generation of Musgroves consider themselves much more elegant and refined than their elders, who represent a timeless Old England that is passing from the scene: simple, hearty, hospitable people, but much too coarse for modern sensibilities.

The daughters' names are Henrietta and Louisa - frilly, new-fangled import names ending in "a". They'd be right at home on the babies I meet at the park every day!

A very likeable older character complains that he can never remember these fancy new names, and wishes all young ladies were "Sophy" (definitely NOT "Sophia") like his own wife.

The more things change, the more they stay the same!

Regarding Lillie as a "white" name. Interesting, that you feel that way because up until recently, the only Lillies, Lillians I know were Asian! I know one Lillian in her 60's, two in their 40's, and two Lillies in their 20's -- all Asian.

I also know 4 Lillies/Lillians under the age of 5 -- all white.

So maybe the white parents of these tots want to be Asian. ;)

Robyn T:

I don't think my name, Lillie, is white at all.

I encounter it rarely -- I've only met one other Lillie face to face in my 24 years -- and when I come across it in print or on the Web, it is often the name of a black woman from the South and Texas who was born at the turn of the century. (I sometimes see it in this category in combination with single-syllable middle names: Lillie Mae, Lillie Belle.)

The most famous Lillie was indeed white: Lillie Langtry. But I suspect your association of whiteness with Lillie is because of the expression "lily-white."

Laura, do you have any ethnic data to correspond with your name records?

Have just found this very interesting link for popular Elizabethan names.
http://www.st-mike.org/names.html

Just look at those kre8tive spellings - Mychaell anyone? Geoffraie? Wynnefreede?

I agree with Dee that "Olivia" feels old in part because of the Waltons. The moms on TV historical shows in the 1970s became our proxy great-grandmothers. Think Little House on the Prairie's Caroline, for the same generation of parents; oh, and the schoolteacher on Little House was named Eva, and another continuing adult character was Grace. There aren't too many historical dramas on now, that kids would be watching anyway...hm!

Kathie - Like I said, I associate the name Samantha with that time because of the books. From the data on the Name Voyager it looks like Samantha was falling out of style in the 1890's (when Samantha's parents would have been teens, I assume) and disappeared from the charts for another 50 years or so. Of course, just because the name was off the charts doesn't mean no one used it. :-)

I always think of Little House on the Prairie when I hear Caroline - that was actually my inspiration for wanting to use it (DH hasn't been convinced) as I have many fond memories of childhood watching Little House with my mother. Two of my first "nice" dolls were Laura and Mary. If you look at the Voyagerfor Caroline/Carolina is follows the same curve (even though the numbers change by the 1000s). I think that's interesting.

Keren - That is so interesting about the kre8tive spellings in Elizabethen times - guess it's all one big cycle!

Keren, thanks for the link to Elizabethan names- very interesting (although the guy was obviously an amateur as he conflates Margaret and Margerie)!! I followed this other link on the site http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/christian/fairnames/givennames.html#men
and found that some of the commonest men's names back then we would consider odd now; eg Fulke, Reynold and Oswyn... Cuthbert, anyone? The women's names are interesting too. I find these lists very appealing because I love the idea of using names that have been around a long time, but may not have been rediscovered by many.

P.S. Just so you know, I personally won't be using Fulke, Reynold, Oswyn or Cuthbert...

P.P.S. Wow, imagine a Name Voyager that went back to medieval times....!

Actually I do know a Reynold..

I went to the site that Valerie mentioned above and found that in ENgland in the late 1500's there were a couple of names that I would have considered rather modern: Gillian (in top 50) and Denise ("slightly less common"). The strangest names they mentioned to be are Frideswide (a forunner of Frieda perhaps?) and Wilmot (Wilma maybe?)

Gillian is extremely traditional in England, and is always pronounced with a J sound. I'm only mentioning this because occasionally in the US I've heard it with a hard G.
Also Geoffrey in England is the trad spelling of Jeffrey and is pronounced the same. However I recently went to a restaurant in Malibu called Geoffrey's pronounced Joffrey's. I'm intrigued by these differences.

Valerie - I've heard the hard G in Gillian, but prefer to hear it Jillian (I've also seen several who spell it with a J). I think that Geoffrey probably should be pronounced just like Jeffreyb ,ut people think it may sound more "high-class" or "snooty" to pronounce it Joffrey. Maybe they wanted to sound more upscale?

Valerie - several Gillians and one or two Jillians here - all 40's & 50's and pronounced 'jill'. Geoffrey is the more usual spelling also - but none of that 'Joffrey' business - Jeff or Geoff - they are still 'j-e-f'.

More fake posts, more fake people.

When we named our daughter "Emma", it was still seen as a countrified, old-lady in a big floral dress type name. How times change!

Our other daughter's name, Rose, probably still has an old-fashioned feel to it -- that name didn't take off like Emma did.

Valerie, Two of my fav. antiques that haven't become too popular are Beatrix and Cecily. The only problem I anticipate holding them back are frilly nn; (Tirxy, BeBe, CeCe )

Claire, I think Rose is a perfectly wonderful name. (My grandma's maiden name). I don't think I consider it old fashioned so much as classic or traditional. I love it; antique sound yet still untapped.

I knew a Geoff in highschool, and they pronounced it Gee-Off. At the time I had never seen the Geoff, and I thought it was just an odd name. Now looking back, at the group of friends he had, I think it may have been a funny nickname amoungst them, maybe an inside joke.
P.S. What's up with the fake people thing??

Val - Every time I hear Beatrix/Beatrice I think of "Bezus" of Bezus and Ramona Quimby a group of children's books by Beverly Cleary. You could always insist that she is called by her first name if you don't like the nn options.

Rose seems to be both timeless and old-fashioned. I think of Rose from Titanic - an old-fashioned setting, but a pop culture film and the name was put on a young woman. I love the name Rose.

I need an opinion on the name Rafe what do you think? should it be spelled Rafe or Ralph this is for a 2nd baby our other son starts with an "R" as well

Jess - Don't know if there was a misspelling above or not - there is certainly a difference between Rafe and Ralph - did you mean Raph? I knew a Raph (short for Raphael) in high school - he pronounced it Raff. I prefer Rafe. I think it sounds kind of mysterious, dark but not in a bad way. I think "rebel with a heart of gold". Also it has a sort of western feel to me - I could see a cowboy with that name.
In conclusion: I think it's a great name, rugged and a bit unusual wihout being weird. Good luck!

Hi all! On this topic, what do you think of the girl name Alia or Elise as a sister to Joshua?

Actually I think you can pronounce Ralph as "Rafe" - for example Ralph Fiennes the actor does, but it's pretty unusual and could cause confusion. I prefer Rafe myself.

Val: What about plain old Bea (or B) as a nn for Beatrix/Beatrice? I went to high school with a girl named Beatrice. I thought it was a very old-fashioned name but I think B sounds cool. I knew a girl named Betsy who went by B also. To me Bea/B gives options for a more classic or sporty/hip personality

Keren - I had forgotten about the actor Ralph Fiennes. I stand corrected with my confusion on the spelling. I'd still spell it Rafe if that's how you want it pronounced.

I like the nn B or Bea. I think it's cute to hear a letter as a nn (someone mentioned called Violet "V" earlier and I though it was cute.)

Elizabethan "cre8tive" spellings were not the same as today's. Spelling was in the midst of getting standardized at the time, and didn't really stop until (I think) the early 1800's. Most people did not have any sort of formal education, so spelling was pretty phonetic, but since English as the standard language (in England) was fairly recent (within 100 years or so), you still had a lot of French and Germanic words with their French and Germanic spellings - later many of these got anglicised.

Elizabethan "cre8tive" spellings were not the same as today's. Spelling was in the midst of getting standardized at the time, and didn't really stop until (I think) the early 1800's. Most people did not have any sort of formal education, so spelling was pretty phonetic, but since English as the standard language (in England) was fairly recent (within 100 years or so), you still had a lot of French and Germanic words with their French and Germanic spellings - later many of these got anglicised.

I tend to care very little about meaning of names. I like that this site tends more toward phonetic and rhythmic analysis of names, as well as cultural phenomena, with less emphasis on what the names supposedly mean. I mean, who will really know I (or care) that "Helena" means light. I really like Tristan for a boy (even though it's associated with sadness--triste) and Miasma for a girl. These are my #1s, thought DH is noncommittal. Well, we've got 7 months to figure it out. I'll probably be changing my mind quite a bit....
--Bev

Lisa R - That makes plenty of sense for the names like Francis/Frances but you almost have to wonder what they were thinking when they did Winifred: Wynefreed, Wynefrede, Wynnefreede. I just think it's funny, even if it's not historically accurate.

Bev: I agree with you that often it really doesn't matter what a name means. For example, the fact that Tristan may mean sad wouldn't put me off using it.It's a beautiful name. And it will be a rare occurrence if you meet someone who actually knows what it means anyway (unless you hang out with us ;) ).

However, miasma is a word defined as:
A vapor from a swamp. Also: A harmful influence. And people do know the word miasma. So I think I would avoid that one, personally...

Bev - Miasma's a first - not sure about it yet.
Jess - I'm with the rest - Rafe and Ralph are two different names. Ralph/Ralf is quite old - there were lots in the boys books of the 30's and 40's - Rafe could be a contraction of Raphael/Rafael.
I saw a website once where they listed all the various spellings of Shakespeare - I think there were more than fifty.
Val - nicknames are hard, aren't they? Problem is - once you name a child the name is theirs to do what they want with and if your sweet Beatrix becomes Bebe once she gets some playmates, there's not much you can do about it. My daughter Laura is Lawlaws/Lorie etc to various friends and while I still tend to shudder a bit, at least she has friends! All you can do is nickname her what you like while she's a baby and enjoy the brief power :-)

On the Ralph/Rafe debate- I'm with Keren. Ralph was definitely pronounced Rafe traditionally in England (e.g. the composer Ralph Vaughan Williams pronounced his name that way). However it was never spelled Rafe, as far as I know. Just another one of those weird quirks of English I guess. These days I think a lot of people on both sides of the Atlantic pronounce Ralph the way it looks.

Thanks everyone for your 2 cents on my rafe/ralph debate, I think we will spell it rafe. I liked the idea of being traditional ie Ralph (like Ralph Fiennes) but I don't want him saying "actully its pronounced Rafe" for his whole life.

What was with "fake post, fake people "
post ? can anyone shed some light?

My husband is a computer expert and says it was probably something called a spambot- ie not a real person.

Valerie
Are you talking about "jess"?

Valerie
Oh Sorry!, Jess was asking the question. My mistake.

Drat, I guess you're right! Miasma is so pretty, though. I hate to cast it out just yet.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings, Bev! I wonder if there are other names which have a similar ring to Miasma that you might like? (OK people, here's an assignment!)
So far (I'm assuming you're looking for something unusual) I have Mia, Esme, Messina, Milena, Miliana, Mila, Misae, Asima, Assana, Asta, Asteria, Astraea, Salima, Samina, Sirena... these are all bona fide names from a book I have called "The Perfect Name". Any good?

Oops Bev - better check Miasma out - according to my Concise Oxford, miasma means a noxious or infectious vapour.
Now I know meanings don't matter that much but an educated person on meeting her, especially if she attends university and even more so if she studies science, will be familiar and possibly a bit appalled with the meaning of her name. Certainly not a good look for a science PHD.

Hi Bev,
Better to get this figured out now! I'm with the crowd here. Miasma would be okay if it weren't a word in (relatively) common usage. I totally agree with you about Tristan, however. No one will know or care what that means. And I'm with you on the meaning of the name. Unless the word is a noun like Grace or Rose, I never think about the meaning. I do wonder about names like Talan, though. In conversation it sounds too much like "talon" for my tastes, which is not an association I would want to give to my son. My husband's aunt is named Trauma, and it's really quite horrible for her as she has to go through life watching people's shocked expressions when she introduces herself. I don't know why she hasn't changed her name. I would have!

So I guess this makes me come down on both sides of the fence, doesn't it? I support you with Tristan, but not Miasma. So the quest is on to find a sound-alike name! Valerie, I think you're off to a good start.

Hi all!
Sorry I posted my Alia/Elise question, I know it's not the purpose of this blog. I have been keeping up with your posts, and have read Laura's book and love watching/studying the trends. Why I ended up with the name Joshua for my son still bugs me (though it suits him so well) so I thought I'ed look for your input on a girl's name if we get lucky enough to have a second. We are thinking Henry for a boy. Anyhow, I'll post more comments on Laura's posts soon, (ie, stay on topic) and Bev, I know it's not the same as Miasma, but what about Aurelia?
Hope you all have a great day,
Heather

>>So far (I'm assuming you're looking for something unusual) I have Mia, Esme, Messina, Milena, Miliana, Mila, Misae, Asima, Assana, Asta, Asteria, Astraea, Salima, Samina, Sirena... these are all bona fide names from a book I have called "The Perfect Name". Any good?<<

Valerie - Assana? Um, I think I'd rethink that suggestion based on pop culture. While I'm sure it would be pronounced Ah-sawn-a, the first thing I thought of upon seeint was "Ass anna?" Astraea sounds pretty cool though. I also love Sirena (Serena maybe? Brings the contect of being serene to me)

Bev - While I like to look at both the sound and the meaning personally, this site and Laura's book have certainly made me rethink the only going on the meaning thing. I would echo other posters by saying that Tristan wouldn't bother me, but personally would avoid a name that meant vapor in reasonably common vernacular. Also to be avoided : Nebulae (means: a cloud of gas). However, out of contaxt, the name does have a very lyrical sound.

HN- Sorry to have missed your question - we never mind answering opinion questions! (granted, I can really only speak for myself...) I really like the name Elise lately. And of the two you suggested, I like it better with Joshua which I see as a reasonably distinguished, strong name. Alia seems to fanciful and lyrical to match it in sound, though I like the name overall. Elise seems to match better. Elegant and feminine without being overly frilly.

Christiana- Yeh, I admit you're right about Ass-anna...guess I haven't been around school children much lately!

HN- I actually prefer Alia because it's Hebrew, so would harmonize well with Joshua, but I think they are both very pretty.

Thank's Valerie and Christiana!
And I like Milena and Esme, fun list, are you working on a book too Valerie?

HN,
Glad to help!
No, I'm not writing a book... although that's a great idea!
My comment should read
"...a book I have, called "The Perfect Name".
It's actually by Jeanine Cox.

This blog is so addictive... glad I'm not the only person checking several times a day...:)

Ok here are a few more "antique" sounding names could have/should have become more popular recently, tell me what you think...
Adora, Amelia, Camille, Georgia, Imogene, Isadora, Lucy, Margo, Rosamound, Sadie, Tabitha, Veronica, and Yvonne.

Any thoughts?

Do you think Assana would be improved if the spelling were changed? For example, Asana? Or maybe even substituting a "Z" for the "S"--especially since the "s" in Miasma has a 'z' sound...

About Nebula, I think it's not as bad as miasma because i think the common definition most people would think of is "some space thing."

Val - I love Camille, Georgia, and Sadie from your list - I'd actually even consider using Sadie if I didn't know so many dogs by that name. I knew a Camie when I was younger who's full name was Camille and I always liked the nn Camie. Adorable. Isadora always reminds me of a witch (not sure why? what was Samantha's mother's name on Bewitched?) Margo is cute, but that's one of those ones I'm not sure I've ever heard on an adult and don't know if it grows well. Yvonne and Veronica sound totally 80's to me - again, I'm not sure why. I'd almost be tempted to take Veronica to Veronique, but that sounds a bit dated as well.

On Assana - possibly a change in spelling might help - Ah-zon-ah? (Azana). Anything that sounds like "Ass" at the beginning may want to be avoided. (Incidentally, I had a friend who is about to have a baby name her baby Ayla with a last name beginning w/ S. Thankfully, they realized it, but it was going to be Ayla Sarah at first - they're back to the drawing board on middle names).

Val, Amelia, Lucy, and Sadie are HOT where I live. I can think of at least ten little girls with those names.

Nebula is rather close to nebulous, which doesn't have a wonderful connotation (but not horrible either).

All I can think is: the Crab Nebula! Not so good . . .

Looove Isadora, with Sadie as a nickname. Don't know any though . . .

Imogen is a great name too, and it's on my list. I prefer Imogen to Imogene (Imo-gin vs. Imo-jeen).

I know an Isadora, nn Dora, with a sister called Iona. And I also know an Imogen. They're both about four years old.

Val - I love most of the names especially Tabitha, Isadora and Amelia. I've heard of Rosamond - not Rosamound though, nor Adora. Lucy is fairly ageless - my daughter's best friend (27) is a Lucy. I loathed it for some reason even though Lucille Ball was very popular for decades but now I like it because of the girl herself. My daughter plans to call a daughter Lucia.
Camille is nice but I prefer Camellia at present, and Imogen to Imogene. Sadie? My unruly mind begins singing 'Sadie, the cleaning lady', and there are just too many Georgia/Georgette/Georgina's around right now.
Christiana - Samantha's mother was Endora. I totally agree with you about Yvonne and Veronica but can date them further back, having a cousin Yvonne born at the end of the '40's and a neighbour Yvonne of the same age when I was a child. Margo was very popular then also with the ballerina Margot Fonteyn, and the name came back as Margaux in the '70's. Veronica hit a peak at school in the '60's and '70's - sadly I never met a nice one

My friend is expecting baby #5. She needs help with a GIRLS name. Her other chidlren are Mallory(girl), Brady(boy),Alyssa(girl) and Jaxxon(boy). She likes Marissa(too much like the other girls) and Elise (too much like Alyssa).She is pretty open to suggestions. Want to help?

Re my earlier post on antique sounding names...Oops Rosamond, not "mound"

Val-

Running with the 's' sound, how about "Tess"?

Just on the first name to come into my head, how about "Nicola"?

Thanks Cheryl, I'll pass these on!

It's funny how someone said Violet and Olivia seem like anagrams. I have two friends who are sisters with those names. Olivia is 22 and Violet is 19.

Val: Caitlin, Natalia, Rosalie or Verity? Tamsin would also be different to her existing names.

As always Tansy, great names! Thanks.

Thanks to Valerie, Elizabeth T., Tansey and Christiana. Thanks for setting me straight in a kind manner. I'm feeling rather ridiculous about Miasma. I knew it meant vapor, but not "swamp" vapor or "noxious" vapor. How awful! And I was an English Lit major. :(

Val - How about Lexi, Melia (Muh-lee-ah), or Aeryn for your friend? I also love Tansey's suggestion of Verity (I just really like that name and it's so unusual).

Thanks Christina, I like your choices, (but Lexi is mine mine mine!) Seriously though, I'll tell her your picks and thanks again.

I haven't heard too much about the name Cecelia. I'm expecting, and if I have a girl, that is what I will name her. That was my grandmothers name and I absolutely love it (could be because of my fond memories of her!)

When I first saw the name Lucia, I thought it was pronounched Lu-see-a, but it's Lu-chi-a, isn't it? Like St. Lucia? I wonder if that pronunciation is widespread enough that you'd have to keep correcting people, if you wanted it pronounced Lu-see-a...

HI all!
Lucia is a lovely name! Have you ever read the children's picture book (applauded by many religions) "You're Special?" Lucia is the main character who doesn't let anyone else's judgement's "stick."
I also love Camille... but my son is going to a school named Camellia so it's off our list :)
Isadora is lovely too! I like Izzy for a nickname... is that too close to Lizzy?

RobynT
For some reason, Lucia is "Loo-sha", to me.
If you like the pronounication "Lu-chi-a" I think you can make it stick. It depends how often you want to be reminding people.

Hm... no one thinks that the resurgence of Emma might have something to do with 'Friends'?

My girls names are Lillian, Annalise and Emmaline. All named aftertheir great-great grandmothers.

Ladies - TY for the compliments - lovely to hear our tuppence ha'pennies are appreciated :-)
Bev - thats the cool thing about this site - you get a number of eyes looking at your choices giving you a fresh insight.
Christiana - Verity is interesting along with Felicity. They're 'virtue' names but not so obvious as the Faith/Hope/Charity ones so possibly a little easier to live with.
Kelly - Cecelia is interesting - picking a name because of a loved one makes it special and of course as your baby she will be most special. I think of the Simon & Garfunkel song also and Cecy in 'What Katy Did'.
Robyn T - Interesting point about Lucia's pronounciation - 'Loo-chee-ah' seems correct to me but 'Loo-see-ah' might take over. I wonder if other names from different cultures have gone through that?

I think that Loo-see-ah is the classical pronunciation (the feminine of Lucius), and seeming as it is clearly a Latinate name, the correct one. Loo-chee-ah I would guess is something that has happened to the name in Hispanic languages, and does not sound right to me...

Hi Abi,
Actually, you've got it backwards. Italians pronounce the name Loo-chee-ah (I have an Italian friend--from Italy--with this name) and Hispanics pronounce it Loo-see-ah. The "ch" sound in Spanish is always spelled "ch."

I used to babysit for a girl named Lucia and she pronounced it Loo-shah. So I think this name is all over the map, making it an interesting and pretty choice. All of those pronunciations sound good to me.

Psyche,

You are wrong, Eva is a very common name in Spaina and it is pronounced AYva.

OK, thanks for correction :)

I am about to deliver my daught