When parents with a traditional bent look for a fresh baby name, they look to the past. Not just one generation back, but four or five to the time of the baby's great-great ancestors. That generation of names has lain fallow long enough that the names sound new again. The names also take on a patina of grace and charm from the bygone era they evoke.
These antique revival names are especially popular for girls, as you can tell by a glance at the U.S. name popularity chart. Names like Emma, Olivia and Ava are all in the top-10. This graph of the number of Emmas born shows the classic revival trend:
Emma was an old-time favorite that had all but vanished, so now it sounds sweetly old-fashioned. Or take Olivia, another staple of "retro" and "old-fashioned" baby-name lists:
Wait a second. Where's the antique part? We all know that Olivia is a great-great-grandmother name...right? But if you look at the numbers, it turns out that a baby girl was actually more likely to be named Olivia in 1950 than in 1890. Huh.
Well, let's look at Ava instead. A recent article in the Atlanta Journal-Constitution about the antique name cycle claimed: "Old-fashioned names like Ava, Milo, Hazel, Hugo and Clara are coming back."
How's that for an old-fashioned name? And that graph is a major year out of date. More Avas were born in the United States last year than in 1880-1980 -- the whole century combined. How can a name "come back" when it was never here to begin with?
Perhaps they're even more antique than my graphs can show--say, top hits of the 1840s. But no, a check of census records says otherwise. The unavoidable conclusion is that Olivia and Ava aren't real antiques. They were timeless but uncommon names that are suddenly, dramatically contemporary. So why do we hear them as old-fashioned?
More on this next time....
Comments
Valerie - several Gillians and one or two Jillians here - all 40's & 50's and pronounced 'jill'. Geoffrey is the more usual spelling also - but none of that 'Joffrey' business - Jeff or Geoff - they are still 'j-e-f'.
More fake posts, more fake people.
When we named our daughter "Emma", it was still seen as a countrified, old-lady in a big floral dress type name. How times change!
Our other daughter's name, Rose, probably still has an old-fashioned feel to it -- that name didn't take off like Emma did.
Valerie, Two of my fav. antiques that haven't become too popular are Beatrix and Cecily. The only problem I anticipate holding them back are frilly nn; (Tirxy, BeBe, CeCe )
Claire, I think Rose is a perfectly wonderful name. (My grandma's maiden name). I don't think I consider it old fashioned so much as classic or traditional. I love it; antique sound yet still untapped.
I knew a Geoff in highschool, and they pronounced it Gee-Off. At the time I had never seen the Geoff, and I thought it was just an odd name. Now looking back, at the group of friends he had, I think it may have been a funny nickname amoungst them, maybe an inside joke.
P.S. What's up with the fake people thing??
Val - Every time I hear Beatrix/Beatrice I think of "Bezus" of Bezus and Ramona Quimby a group of children's books by Beverly Cleary. You could always insist that she is called by her first name if you don't like the nn options.
Rose seems to be both timeless and old-fashioned. I think of Rose from Titanic - an old-fashioned setting, but a pop culture film and the name was put on a young woman. I love the name Rose.
I need an opinion on the name Rafe what do you think? should it be spelled Rafe or Ralph this is for a 2nd baby our other son starts with an "R" as well
Jess - Don't know if there was a misspelling above or not - there is certainly a difference between Rafe and Ralph - did you mean Raph? I knew a Raph (short for Raphael) in high school - he pronounced it Raff. I prefer Rafe. I think it sounds kind of mysterious, dark but not in a bad way. I think "rebel with a heart of gold". Also it has a sort of western feel to me - I could see a cowboy with that name.
In conclusion: I think it's a great name, rugged and a bit unusual wihout being weird. Good luck!
Hi all! On this topic, what do you think of the girl name Alia or Elise as a sister to Joshua?
Actually I think you can pronounce Ralph as "Rafe" - for example Ralph Fiennes the actor does, but it's pretty unusual and could cause confusion. I prefer Rafe myself.
Val: What about plain old Bea (or B) as a nn for Beatrix/Beatrice? I went to high school with a girl named Beatrice. I thought it was a very old-fashioned name but I think B sounds cool. I knew a girl named Betsy who went by B also. To me Bea/B gives options for a more classic or sporty/hip personality
Keren - I had forgotten about the actor Ralph Fiennes. I stand corrected with my confusion on the spelling. I'd still spell it Rafe if that's how you want it pronounced.
I like the nn B or Bea. I think it's cute to hear a letter as a nn (someone mentioned called Violet "V" earlier and I though it was cute.)
Elizabethan "cre8tive" spellings were not the same as today's. Spelling was in the midst of getting standardized at the time, and didn't really stop until (I think) the early 1800's. Most people did not have any sort of formal education, so spelling was pretty phonetic, but since English as the standard language (in England) was fairly recent (within 100 years or so), you still had a lot of French and Germanic words with their French and Germanic spellings - later many of these got anglicised.
Elizabethan "cre8tive" spellings were not the same as today's. Spelling was in the midst of getting standardized at the time, and didn't really stop until (I think) the early 1800's. Most people did not have any sort of formal education, so spelling was pretty phonetic, but since English as the standard language (in England) was fairly recent (within 100 years or so), you still had a lot of French and Germanic words with their French and Germanic spellings - later many of these got anglicised.
I tend to care very little about meaning of names. I like that this site tends more toward phonetic and rhythmic analysis of names, as well as cultural phenomena, with less emphasis on what the names supposedly mean. I mean, who will really know I (or care) that "Helena" means light. I really like Tristan for a boy (even though it's associated with sadness--triste) and Miasma for a girl. These are my #1s, thought DH is noncommittal. Well, we've got 7 months to figure it out. I'll probably be changing my mind quite a bit....
--Bev
Lisa R - That makes plenty of sense for the names like Francis/Frances but you almost have to wonder what they were thinking when they did Winifred: Wynefreed, Wynefrede, Wynnefreede. I just think it's funny, even if it's not historically accurate.
Bev: I agree with you that often it really doesn't matter what a name means. For example, the fact that Tristan may mean sad wouldn't put me off using it.It's a beautiful name. And it will be a rare occurrence if you meet someone who actually knows what it means anyway (unless you hang out with us ;) ).
However, miasma is a word defined as:
A vapor from a swamp. Also: A harmful influence. And people do know the word miasma. So I think I would avoid that one, personally...
Bev - Miasma's a first - not sure about it yet.
Jess - I'm with the rest - Rafe and Ralph are two different names. Ralph/Ralf is quite old - there were lots in the boys books of the 30's and 40's - Rafe could be a contraction of Raphael/Rafael.
I saw a website once where they listed all the various spellings of Shakespeare - I think there were more than fifty.
Val - nicknames are hard, aren't they? Problem is - once you name a child the name is theirs to do what they want with and if your sweet Beatrix becomes Bebe once she gets some playmates, there's not much you can do about it. My daughter Laura is Lawlaws/Lorie etc to various friends and while I still tend to shudder a bit, at least she has friends! All you can do is nickname her what you like while she's a baby and enjoy the brief power :-)
On the Ralph/Rafe debate- I'm with Keren. Ralph was definitely pronounced Rafe traditionally in England (e.g. the composer Ralph Vaughan Williams pronounced his name that way). However it was never spelled Rafe, as far as I know. Just another one of those weird quirks of English I guess. These days I think a lot of people on both sides of the Atlantic pronounce Ralph the way it looks.
Thanks everyone for your 2 cents on my rafe/ralph debate, I think we will spell it rafe. I liked the idea of being traditional ie Ralph (like Ralph Fiennes) but I don't want him saying "actully its pronounced Rafe" for his whole life.
What was with "fake post, fake people "
post ? can anyone shed some light?
My husband is a computer expert and says it was probably something called a spambot- ie not a real person.
Valerie
Are you talking about "jess"?
Valerie
Oh Sorry!, Jess was asking the question. My mistake.
Drat, I guess you're right! Miasma is so pretty, though. I hate to cast it out just yet.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings, Bev! I wonder if there are other names which have a similar ring to Miasma that you might like? (OK people, here's an assignment!)
So far (I'm assuming you're looking for something unusual) I have Mia, Esme, Messina, Milena, Miliana, Mila, Misae, Asima, Assana, Asta, Asteria, Astraea, Salima, Samina, Sirena... these are all bona fide names from a book I have called "The Perfect Name". Any good?
Oops Bev - better check Miasma out - according to my Concise Oxford, miasma means a noxious or infectious vapour.
Now I know meanings don't matter that much but an educated person on meeting her, especially if she attends university and even more so if she studies science, will be familiar and possibly a bit appalled with the meaning of her name. Certainly not a good look for a science PHD.
Hi Bev,
Better to get this figured out now! I'm with the crowd here. Miasma would be okay if it weren't a word in (relatively) common usage. I totally agree with you about Tristan, however. No one will know or care what that means. And I'm with you on the meaning of the name. Unless the word is a noun like Grace or Rose, I never think about the meaning. I do wonder about names like Talan, though. In conversation it sounds too much like "talon" for my tastes, which is not an association I would want to give to my son. My husband's aunt is named Trauma, and it's really quite horrible for her as she has to go through life watching people's shocked expressions when she introduces herself. I don't know why she hasn't changed her name. I would have!
So I guess this makes me come down on both sides of the fence, doesn't it? I support you with Tristan, but not Miasma. So the quest is on to find a sound-alike name! Valerie, I think you're off to a good start.
Hi all!
Sorry I posted my Alia/Elise question, I know it's not the purpose of this blog. I have been keeping up with your posts, and have read Laura's book and love watching/studying the trends. Why I ended up with the name Joshua for my son still bugs me (though it suits him so well) so I thought I'ed look for your input on a girl's name if we get lucky enough to have a second. We are thinking Henry for a boy. Anyhow, I'll post more comments on Laura's posts soon, (ie, stay on topic) and Bev, I know it's not the same as Miasma, but what about Aurelia?
Hope you all have a great day,
Heather
>>So far (I'm assuming you're looking for something unusual) I have Mia, Esme, Messina, Milena, Miliana, Mila, Misae, Asima, Assana, Asta, Asteria, Astraea, Salima, Samina, Sirena... these are all bona fide names from a book I have called "The Perfect Name". Any good?<<
Valerie - Assana? Um, I think I'd rethink that suggestion based on pop culture. While I'm sure it would be pronounced Ah-sawn-a, the first thing I thought of upon seeint was "Ass anna?" Astraea sounds pretty cool though. I also love Sirena (Serena maybe? Brings the contect of being serene to me)
Bev - While I like to look at both the sound and the meaning personally, this site and Laura's book have certainly made me rethink the only going on the meaning thing. I would echo other posters by saying that Tristan wouldn't bother me, but personally would avoid a name that meant vapor in reasonably common vernacular. Also to be avoided : Nebulae (means: a cloud of gas). However, out of contaxt, the name does have a very lyrical sound.
HN- Sorry to have missed your question - we never mind answering opinion questions! (granted, I can really only speak for myself...) I really like the name Elise lately. And of the two you suggested, I like it better with Joshua which I see as a reasonably distinguished, strong name. Alia seems to fanciful and lyrical to match it in sound, though I like the name overall. Elise seems to match better. Elegant and feminine without being overly frilly.
Christiana- Yeh, I admit you're right about Ass-anna...guess I haven't been around school children much lately!
HN- I actually prefer Alia because it's Hebrew, so would harmonize well with Joshua, but I think they are both very pretty.
Thank's Valerie and Christiana!
And I like Milena and Esme, fun list, are you working on a book too Valerie?
HN,
Glad to help!
No, I'm not writing a book... although that's a great idea!
My comment should read
"...a book I have, called "The Perfect Name".
It's actually by Jeanine Cox.
This blog is so addictive... glad I'm not the only person checking several times a day...:)
Ok here are a few more "antique" sounding names could have/should have become more popular recently, tell me what you think...
Adora, Amelia, Camille, Georgia, Imogene, Isadora, Lucy, Margo, Rosamound, Sadie, Tabitha, Veronica, and Yvonne.
Any thoughts?
Do you think Assana would be improved if the spelling were changed? For example, Asana? Or maybe even substituting a "Z" for the "S"--especially since the "s" in Miasma has a 'z' sound...
About Nebula, I think it's not as bad as miasma because i think the common definition most people would think of is "some space thing."
Val - I love Camille, Georgia, and Sadie from your list - I'd actually even consider using Sadie if I didn't know so many dogs by that name. I knew a Camie when I was younger who's full name was Camille and I always liked the nn Camie. Adorable. Isadora always reminds me of a witch (not sure why? what was Samantha's mother's name on Bewitched?) Margo is cute, but that's one of those ones I'm not sure I've ever heard on an adult and don't know if it grows well. Yvonne and Veronica sound totally 80's to me - again, I'm not sure why. I'd almost be tempted to take Veronica to Veronique, but that sounds a bit dated as well.
On Assana - possibly a change in spelling might help - Ah-zon-ah? (Azana). Anything that sounds like "Ass" at the beginning may want to be avoided. (Incidentally, I had a friend who is about to have a baby name her baby Ayla with a last name beginning w/ S. Thankfully, they realized it, but it was going to be Ayla Sarah at first - they're back to the drawing board on middle names).
Val, Amelia, Lucy, and Sadie are HOT where I live. I can think of at least ten little girls with those names.
Nebula is rather close to nebulous, which doesn't have a wonderful connotation (but not horrible either).
All I can think is: the Crab Nebula! Not so good . . .
Looove Isadora, with Sadie as a nickname. Don't know any though . . .
Imogen is a great name too, and it's on my list. I prefer Imogen to Imogene (Imo-gin vs. Imo-jeen).
I know an Isadora, nn Dora, with a sister called Iona. And I also know an Imogen. They're both about four years old.
Val - I love most of the names especially Tabitha, Isadora and Amelia. I've heard of Rosamond - not Rosamound though, nor Adora. Lucy is fairly ageless - my daughter's best friend (27) is a Lucy. I loathed it for some reason even though Lucille Ball was very popular for decades but now I like it because of the girl herself. My daughter plans to call a daughter Lucia.
Camille is nice but I prefer Camellia at present, and Imogen to Imogene. Sadie? My unruly mind begins singing 'Sadie, the cleaning lady', and there are just too many Georgia/Georgette/Georgina's around right now.
Christiana - Samantha's mother was Endora. I totally agree with you about Yvonne and Veronica but can date them further back, having a cousin Yvonne born at the end of the '40's and a neighbour Yvonne of the same age when I was a child. Margo was very popular then also with the ballerina Margot Fonteyn, and the name came back as Margaux in the '70's. Veronica hit a peak at school in the '60's and '70's - sadly I never met a nice one
My friend is expecting baby #5. She needs help with a GIRLS name. Her other chidlren are Mallory(girl), Brady(boy),Alyssa(girl) and Jaxxon(boy). She likes Marissa(too much like the other girls) and Elise (too much like Alyssa).She is pretty open to suggestions. Want to help?
Re my earlier post on antique sounding names...Oops Rosamond, not "mound"
Val-
Running with the 's' sound, how about "Tess"?
Just on the first name to come into my head, how about "Nicola"?
Thanks Cheryl, I'll pass these on!
It's funny how someone said Violet and Olivia seem like anagrams. I have two friends who are sisters with those names. Olivia is 22 and Violet is 19.
Val: Caitlin, Natalia, Rosalie or Verity? Tamsin would also be different to her existing names.
As always Tansy, great names! Thanks.
Thanks to Valerie, Elizabeth T., Tansey and Christiana. Thanks for setting me straight in a kind manner. I'm feeling rather ridiculous about Miasma. I knew it meant vapor, but not "swamp" vapor or "noxious" vapor. How awful! And I was an English Lit major. :(
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