The Baby Name Wizard

I love a lot of these names--not that I would inflict them on a child, but they do seem to represent a different time, when people wore their values and aspirations on their sleeves.

It made me think of another interesting name belonging to a famous judge, Learned Hand (whole name apparently Billings Learned Hand). He served in NY from the 1920s to 50s, and is still much quoted today--I guess he lived up to his name.

Some of these names are also pleasant in their more familiar forms:
Constant--Constance
Victory--Victor/Victoria
Grove--Grover
etc.

I wouldn't mind seeing a resurgence of these sorts of names, but I wonder if our values today would produce such upstanding names....

Laura, I love these lists! Would you mind attaching dates to them (what year each one made the top 1000)? I'd love to be able to put them in more context. If there's a reason you don't want to attach dates to them, what is it?

I wouldn't be surprised to see Cinnamon on an increasing number of babies: it's been used as a character name in a couple of recent stories/books, it's both a noun and a color, it's a little exotic sounding ... It's not a name I'd pick for my own child, but I could see other people using it.

I saw a 'Red' in our local paper a while back and just finished a book (the name evades me but it was of the chick lit varity) where the protagonist was called Victory - I think it's a refreshing alternative to Victoria, although I'm really not into Vic, Vicky, Tor or Tory which every Vicotria I've ever met seems to become...

Any chance the occurrence of "Wing" is Chinese? Chinese names in old US records are often recorded as familiar English words like Song, Sing, Wing, Young, Gum, Fang, Hang, Hung, Chin, Pin, Win, Jay, etc., even if the actual name didn't really sound very much like these words.

I'd also wonder if "Friend" was a reference to the Quakers (The Society of Friends).

My sister-in-law lives in SE Idaho and works at a hospital. She says that she is coming across the name 'Heavenly' quite a bit for little newborn baby girls.

I think this is just hilarious. Mind you, it is a pretty religious (mainly Mormon) community, but I myself am also Mormon and I still think the name is odd as all get out.

Some of these again are only "one-hit wonders" because the data is only from 1880 on. Several of them were fairly common in the earlier part of the 19th century. I'm actually a bit surprised that Vienna only made the list one year because I've seen it so frequently as a girl's name in old records.

Constant is somewhat of a Puritan name but also has been regularly used as a male given name in France. Welcome and Wealthy are both survivals of "Puritan" names. Omega is from the Biblical phrase "Alpha and Omega"; Alpha is on the SSA list for girls until 1944, and on the list for boys until 1913. I myself had a great-uncle named Alpha. Gentry, North, Grove, and Swan are probably surname transfers more than being directly from the words. Wing could be partly Chinese, but it's also an English surname.

Cinnamon's appearance in 1969 is of course because of the character Cinnamon Carter (played by Barbara Bain) on the original television series version of "Mission Impossible". :)

Ah, Pepper! I had a friend in high school named Pepper. She was so quirky and cool and the name fit her perfectly. I remember she said that her mom had been planning on naming her Alison but changed her mind at the last minute. I always wondered how different she would have been had she been Alison (a pretty name, but she would have been one of many).

Sarah R.--Do those kids named "Heavenly" live in Bliss, ID? I like the wide open spaces as much as anyone, but blissful it ain't.

Maybe "Omega," representing the last letter of the alphabet, is a more acceptable way of calling it "Quits."

Omega is one of the names I could see coming back.

Haven would fit right in with the "en" names for either a boy or girl.

And Vienna would be right at home with Paris, Savannah, Brooklyn and China.

But I don't see Wealthy coming back any time soon...

Oh, I think you're right, Constantly Kid-- "Omega" might well have been a declaration of family completion on the namer's part, either for the tragic reason that the mother passes away in childbirth (thus, Omega really must be her last), or because the parents just hope for baby to be the last. There are names for the "last baby" in many traditions. Better than naming them "Caboose," anyway! (That was my mother's joke name for the youngest.)

I quite like Ceylon! It fits a lot of the trends, and it's not too far from names like Celia and Taylor. So I guess it sounds more like a girl's name to me.

"Omegas" are the damaged last cohort of humans in PD James' _The Children of Men_--I couldn't see it as a personal name after that. That and it just has a Star Trek vibe... Most Greek letter names do, I think, except maybe Delta, and Pi (as a nickname).

The daughter of Paula Yates and Michael Hutchence is named Heavenly Hiraani Tiger Lily, known as Tiger.
I also have friends who named their daughter Tiger and their cat Nick. Very confusing! I have to admit to secretly liking Tiger though...

Last child name of my aquaintance (father had a vas.) - Finn. Subtle, but point taken!
Heavenly - does this portend other adverb names?

Viennas coming back - my friend just named her baby Vienna Susanna Eve (after her cat..)

Heavenly is actually an adjective (despite the -ly ending, it modifies nouns, not verbs or other adjectives). But as for adverbial names.... well, there's Merrilee, I always think of that as "merrily." (Every once in a while you see it spelled that way, even.)

At the risk of stating the obvious, I think several of these names could make a comeback, but I think they're much more likely to return as girls' names.
Jack had a girl named Temple in his last swim class, and I've met Havens at the park. I've also seen baby polls with Gentry as a girl's option, and I believe someone was asking for suggestions for a sibling of a Vienna not long ago.
I could see North as a boy's name. I've heard of boys named West, Westin, and Easton.
I'm really enjoying hearing about the one-hit wonders. As a follow-up, I'd love to hear Laura's predictions for future one-hits.
I was also wondering if there are any perrenial bridesmaids-names that have been close to breaking through on multiple occasions but have never quite made the leap.

Thanks for another interesting-and classy-post, Laura.

Thanks Swan! 50 dumb points for me, oops!

I know a woman in her 30's named Gentry, and for what it's worth people have often commented positively about her name. Vienna is definitely an up and comer imho. Fits in with current trends on several levels (place name, -a ending, unusual initial letter). I've never met one, but it just seems right.

A friend had a baby boy a couple of years ago named Grove. I'd never heard it before, but it was perfect for their nature-loving family. Cinnamon and Pepper seem the most likely to be seen again to me, but from other posters, looks like Vienna is out there, too.

I agree with LKB- I'd love to see years attached to the one-hit-wonder names discussed in these posts. Any way to find out such information?

You can always go to the ssa site and type in the name. It'll come up. Also the site by Nancy has them grouped by decade.

Vienna is a character on As The World Turns now - somehow I still see soap opera character names as harbingers of rising popularity, so I agree with the peeps who think it might come back.

I can totally see Vienna rising in popularity. 'V' names seem to be very cute. Actually, I've never really thought of Vienna as a name before and I like it. It's prettier than Sienna, imo.

The mention of adverbial names like Heavenly and Merrily reminds me of a distant relative I have called Verily - I've never heard this on anyone else and have always wondered how she got this name... does anyone know any others?

Cinnamon's year was 1969, and it jumped all the way to number 700, which fits with the Mission Impossible connection.

Pepper's year was 1975, just after the premiere of Police Woman. Hmm, seems we've got a theme going here. (And also, incidentally, a theme in the naming of tough-but-cute women TV characters at the time.)

On the other hand, Mission Impossible premiered in 1966, Cinnamon didn't appear until 1969, and when it did it jumped all the way to 700. Can anyone think of another source that would have kicked it up in that year?

To be honest, Vienna just makes me think of sausage! Though I think it is a pretty name.

Lucky is another name up there I think could make a comeback - I've met several Luckys here and there. One was a nn for Lucas, another for Lucinda, but a couple were really just Lucky.

I knew a "Lucky" who was using it as a nickname for the Indian name Lakshman.

Hey Meg--Neil Young's "Cinnamon Girl" was released as a single in 1969, that might have contributed...

Is Lincoln rising? I feel like it is, but I'm not sure. If it really takes off, I can see people starting to use Link or Linc as a full name.

I knew a guy named Link in grade school. He'd be about 26 now. I always thought it was a really cool name, but that's probably because of his personality. I've known a couple of Boones. Has anybody from the north known anyone with these names? I live in the south. I think I have seen elsewhere on this board where some have predicted that Boone is about to take off again because of "Lost." Same with Sawyer.

BTW, I think Link was his full name. It seems that if Lincoln was the full name, the logical nn would be spelled Linc.

I have a current student (high school) named Council - I believe that it is his mother's last name.

I know a guy named Haven in his early 20's. His first name is actually Edmund, but he goes by Haven, which is his middle name. I could see both names making a comeback actually for boys.

By chance I came across a name which, if not a one-hit wonder, HAD to have been rare, no? "Phrisdewith". Phrisdewith Grafton (who I think died around 1625) was married to Jerome Lanier, who was appointed musician to the court of Elizabeth I.

I'd love to know the origin of the name, but haven't found any so far...

Katharine: Verily is probably a variation on Verity, a reasonably common name. Pepper reminds me of the spunkiest orphan in the Annie movie.

And you lead me to my question of the day- what is the most traditional spelling of Katharine/Katherine/Catherine. I'm not even entering the 'y' variations, but what about the second 'a' vs an 'e' or K vs C?

Clearly, my above question needs a question mark "what is the most traditional spelling of Katharine/Katherine/Catherine?". Sorry. I know we all hate poor grammar.

Formerly Arlene F...I seem to be the only Arlene on here...
That's one of the things I really like about this blog--almost everyone can spell, punctuate correctly, and compose intelligent sentences!
Re Katharine/Katherine/Catherine: I was thinking of Henry VIII's wives as possibly being indicative of the traditional spelling, but they're no help: the three with that name were Catherine of Aragon, Kathryn Howard, and Katherine Parr! Would you still consider it creative spelling when spelling hadn't yet been standardized?

I guess I wouldn't consider any of the variations to be creative in the "Madacyn" sense of creative. What I was really looking for is the original spelling. I'm leaning toward Katharine, as it seems closest to the Greek 'katharsis' (meaning "pure", or something ;)), from which I'm fairly sure the name derives.

Question for all you pro's.

Is there any way I can make the name Asher Rew work for a little boy? I am thinking if we find a good middle name and call him by both names it would force more of a pause before the last name, and not flow so much like kangaroo, (or sound like a sneeze as someone recently pointed out).

My husband says it is time to let the name die because of our tricky last name, but I like it so much that I'm not quite ready to.

"Phrisdewith" looks like a variation on "Frideswitha"--not a terribly uncommon Englishwoman's name in the 1500s, 1600s... in various spellings (you see "Frideswide" a lot, for example). There was a St. Frideswitha, in fact! She's supposed to have had an abbey at Oxford in the 7th century.

http://www.britannia.com/history/legend/berks/frideswide01.html

Sarah, I think the biggest problem with the first name/middle name suggestion is that there's a good chance others won't use the middle name when addressing your son. They'll just jump right to the first and last name combo.

That said, it'd be hard for me to say to give it up entirely if it's your favorite name.

Great post, Laura!

Katharine,
I actually knew a girl my age (early 20s) with the name Verily. She claimed that her parents named her that because it was a "Bible name." She cited the many passages in which Jesus says "verily, verily, I say unto you" as evidence of this. I always got a chuckle out of that. I don't know if it's actually true though. She was a character so she could have been pulling our legs.

Sarah, I wish I had a good suggestion for you! I agree with Lainey that it would be hard (perhaps impossible) to get other people to address your son by both first and middle name. It might just be time to give up on Asher, though I know that's hard to do. Have you thought about Ashton? It's certainly a different name, but it flows nicely with Rew, and you could always use Asher as the nn. Asher could also be a nn. for Dashiell. Best of luck with your decision, I really feel for you! One of my all-time favorites is out because of my last name, and another one is out because of my husband's ex... but what can you do? You could still use the name and decide that it's more important to you than the overall flow, but for me, that would be the deal-breaker.

Another alternative to Asher could be Ashford.
Verily as a Bible name reminds me of a Lois Lowry book with a heroine named Parable Ann (nn Rable). I would think of Verily as a cousin to virtue names, since it means "truly".
Am I mistaken, or have I heard that some of Henry VIII's Kathy's have records with different spellings (the same woman, name spelled differently depending on the source consulted)? Maybe it was a dream I had :)

I had a boss who named her son Chancellor (called "Chance") after a brand of boy's shoes. Some thought it was odd, but I like it.

A lot of these names remind me of names from Orson Scott Card's "Alvin Maker" series. Anyone else think that?

Gentry jumped out of that list bc I know a wonderful family in AR whose last name is Gentry. I have thought for several years that it would be a great fn.

In the spirit of one hit wonders combined with adverbials... I once was introduced to brothers whose names were Red and Harry. Sadly, their ln was Heine - pro. liked "your back side". :(

Thank you, Swan Ceylon, you are a scholar! Of course. The Phrisdewith/Frideswitha syndrome reminds me of "Fryniwyd", which seems to be an archaic inversion of sorts "Winnifred".

Don't know why I like these old tongue-twisting names. Also love "Alvilde", as in Alvilde Lees-Milne, the gardening and decorating writer. But unlike the others, I'm thinking Alvilde might have a more recent German origin, and might be pronounced with three syllables?

Gentry was the first name of a Texas girl who transferred to our S.F. Bay Area school in the 80's. So I guess she'd be in her 30's now. I like it, I think it fits into the whole boys name for girls thing and cowpoke, too, but doesn't feel two decades old like Jordan or Cody.

Thanks for the help. I will definitely consider Ashton and Ashford. Though I love Asher I'm not sure I'm willing to subject my son to years of teasing just b/c I like it. I was never teased much for my name so I really don't know what it is like.

Sarah R: Ashton is a family name that I won't get to use because I'm only having one child. It's lovely, though curses to Ashton Kutcher for having it. To me, Ashton Rew seems very dignified and yet also cute. Whereas Asher Rew, yes, Gezundtheit!

It seems to me that one place you see noun-names that are "aspirational" in the way of Wealthy or Governor, or indicative of character like Spicy, is in African-American naming practices. A friend of mine teaches a Diamond, a Precious, and a Lexus, and I know another preschool with a Dollar.

One nature-y name that's been puzzling me is Glen. It took me a long time to realize that it WAS a nature-y name, since to me it's locked in the 1970s with names like Derek, Keith, Scott, and Brian. But since nature names are in again, does it now count?

Sarah R., I just wanted to voice my agreement with what others have already said. Asher Rew just doesn't work. I really like Ashton, though!

cb--You're entirely right re the spelling of Henry VIII's Kathys. The ones I mentioned are just the ones that came up on the first site I checked. When you consider the number of ways Shakespeare's name is recorded, pretty much anything's possible. Also, now that I think about it, at a time when most people were illiterate, I can't imagine much, if any, thought was given to how a name was spelled.
Many of my grade school report cards said "Arline," which annoyed me no end even as a kid. It just didn't "look" like me; still doesn't.

Sarah R: I like Asher (it was my father's Hebrew name), but I have to agree re Asher Rew (gesundheit!). Too bad Ashton makes us all think of Kutcher, but i don't think he's going to have enough of a long-term career to make the association a big factor.

And don't forget, Michael Jackson's children

Prince, Paris and....Blanket. (???)

Actually, Michael Jackson's kids names are even weirder than what you just wrote: Prince Michael Jackson, Jr., Paris Michael Katherine Jackson, and Prince Michael Jackson II

Sarah, I think a fn/mn combo works best when both names are one syllable. For example, John Mark or John Paul. (I use both of those because I know a guy by each of those names, adults, and everyone calls them by both names). They wouldn't have to be biblical names by any means (although Asher definitely is), but I think a multiple syllable fn asks to stand alone, and most would definitely drop the mn.

Don't forget Michael's brother Jermaine! He named his baby Jermajesty.
Haven Kimmel and Temple Grandin are popular authors. They may not inspire people to pick their names, but they may make their names more familiar. (Step one in making a name more popular.)
Sarah R.-Definitely no on "Asher Rew". Blame it all on your husband!
Mormons love girls names with the -lee sound at the end so I'm not surprised about Heavenly. At least it's not "Celestial". That's even cheesier.

The originial "one hit wonder" status Ms. Wattenberg posted is only valid if you take the gender into account. Haven is NOT a "one hit wonder" for girls. It's already on a pronounced upward swing for girls, first entering the SSA list at #939 in 1996 and rising to #610 in 2006.

Katharine does NOT ultimately derive from the Greek word "katharos" meaning "pure". But it is one of the earliest examples of a _mistaken_ etymology affecting the form of the name. The original Katharine was St. Katharine of Alexandria. Her name was Aikaterine. When her story came to Rome, churchmen writing in Latin wrongly assumed that her name was derived from "katharos", which is how it lost its first syllable and the "t" changed to "th" in most of the languages of western Europe. Russian still has Yekaterina as a form more closely approximating the original. Unfortunately, no one knows the derivation of Aikaterine, and many guess it's actually some greatly altered form from Coptic or ancient Egyptian.

I really hope Gentry as a first name never sees popularity. It's my maiden name and I would love to use it as a FN sometime. Girl or boy, it sounds good either way.

Jennie W: I was curious about your comment about Mormons using girls' names ending in "lee." Is there a specific reason for that? I knew a Mormon family in which the boys all had Biblical names and the two girls had names ending in "lee" and "lie" (pronounced lee).

Anne/kq-

Yes! Verily is a name in the Alvin Maker series by Orson Scott Card. He comes from an ultra-Puritanical New England where all people are named after Bible Verses. He is "Verily, come unto me." I think his mother's name in the book was Wept, after the shortest verse in the Bible, "He Wept." Very interesting naming ideas in that series.

The spellings we're used to seeing for Henry's wives are a standardization used by modern historians to help tell them apart. During their lifetimes various spellings would have been considered acceptable. Don't know what the reason is for the Kathryn/Katherine spellings. Catherine of Aragon is usually spelled with a C today because it's closest to Catarina, which is the name she was actually born with. Catarina was changed to the more English Catherine when she first came to Britian to marry Henry's older brother.

Eo, I think Alvilde is a variation of Alfhild/Alvhild/etc, in that case it's Norse/Norwegian, but there might be German variants as well. The original name would probably be Alfhild (Alf=elf, hild = fight, battle)

Thanks everyone for the feedback re. Verily...

Philippa: I also had a hunch that my spelling was the oldest/traditional form but with no evidence to back this assertion up. That is, except to say that Shakespeare used it in the 'Henry' plays and 'Loves Labours Lost' and is a good enough source for me!

However, there is no need for such deliberation as Cleveland Kent Evans has cleared the matter up and proved our hunch to be correct. I'm always interested in the correct derivation of names (especially when it's my name in question!) so, thanks for that Cleveland Kent Evans...

I've known a Cinnamon and a Pepper!

I know (of) a Cinnamon -- she's an administrative assistant for an academic journal. Somehow, I don't think that's what he parents were picturing her when they named her! Moral: be careful with those unusual and strongly evocative names.

I was wondering Laura, of the list of one-hit wonders, what was the biggest hit. That is, what name was ranked the highest in the year it was ranked. Most one-hitters rank pretty low, 8 or 900's commonly, as would be expected. But if some name came in with a big splash then vanished, there would no doubt be a good story

May I ask what you all think about the name Jane? Too much potential for "Plain Jane" teasing? Would it sound dowdy if we moved into an area full of Madisons and Ashleys? (It would fit in fine where we live now, I think.) I'd appreciate other thoughts, too. Our son's name is Aaron; our last name starts with W and is 2 syllables. Our baby's middle name is likely to be either my maiden name (2 syllables, starts with a consonant), Anne (family name), or the second half of a double name. We like traditional names. Another question -- since our son's middle name is my father's, should I be concerned about my inlaws' feelings if our daughter is named after my mom? (I'd love to use the ILs' names if I could wrap my head around them, but I just can't.)

Our current list:

Amelia
Anna something (double name w/Grace, Claire, etc)
Sarah (sounds too similar to Aaron?)
Catherine (but we don't want Cathy)
Claire
Hope?
Jane?
Lucy? (the only family name on DH's side that I like, but he is not on board)

Thanks!

And more to the topic, since my last post was kind of hijack-y: I saw Woodfin on an earlier one-hit wonder post. That is the name of one of DH's uncles.

Also, I knew a Dagny in school. She pronounced it with a hard G (DAG-nee).

I like Jane, but definitely not Jane Anne. I'm not sure about "Plain Jane" teasing, but, ironically, Jane would have a much more rare name within her age-group than all of the Madisons and Ashleys. Amelia is beautiful, but it's a bit more trendy than the rest of your choices, if that matters to you. I like Anna on its own -- is there a reason you want to double it up? Sarah does sound a little similar to Aaron... "Sarah and Aaron" becomes a bit of a tongue twister, but if you love the name, I don't think it's a big deal. With Catherine, what nn. do you like, if any? I prefer spelling it with a K, mainly because I prefer Kate or Kat to Cate or Cat. Hope, I like, and Claire's not my style. Lucy, I can never never decide on... would she get teased about being "loose" during the awkward years? How about Anna Jane, as a way of sprucing up both names, since you seem to be worried about them being plain? Anna Claire and Claire Anne both work. I say, if you love Jane, go for it. All of your choices are lovely.

Also, Anonymous, have you considered Alice? I think it fits with your style, and it's one of my personal favorite. I don't know if it's too "matchy" with Aaron, but you could also use Alice Jane. I've been thinking lately that Alice and Jane would be lovely sister names, as well, if you ever have another girl!

miamaria-- Thanks so much. Had wondered about a Norse angle. I'm always so thrilled when someone takes the time to answer these obscure name questions, like you and Swan Ceylon have.

As someone who always notices "personal style", I also so appreciate that you guys have done it without being condescending or boorish. Information without swagger-- it's a lovely thing!

Anonymous-- I like Jane very much-- luminous, historical, and tried and true. Ditto Anna and Lucy. Catherine is super also. Given your concerns about "Cathy" , though, a note of caution regarding the longer, traditional names that have established nicknames. It seems that some people are DETERMINED to shorten names. As the parent of a "Benjamin", I'm surprised at how many people want to call him "Ben" even though we don't use it. You almost have to insist on the formal version, or come up with a nickname you like ("Cate", "Kit" or whatever) and try to promulgate that. It takes a lot of energy!

I like Sarah Jane better than Jane alone. Anna-something or Amelia are beautiful, too. I wouldn't worry too much about fitting in with the Ashleys and Madisons. All the names on your list would travel well.

Anon - I like Jane a lot. I actually think it makes a cute double name, especially when paired with a family name. My school once had a Jane Barrett who was called by both names. Definitely not plain!

Thanks for your input, Amy and Eo!

Yes, I think Jane Anne is out because of the initials (JAW, not that that's so awful). I was thinking of Anna as half of a double name partly because it's a fairly common name here on its own, also because the double name is yet another family tradition (mine's a double, and my middle name's Anne).

I do like Alice. :) DH says no, he'd prefer Alyssa. I ask you, does that fit at all with our list? lol -- I nixed Alyssa because it's not ancient enough (laughing at myself), though it's very pretty otherwise.

Eo -- we would be those people who don't want any nickname at all, or maybe Kate. The "C" just seems right to me, but you're right, nobody would use Cate or Catherine unless we made a point of it.

Sarah R -- re the double name for a boy -- it is very uncommon where I live for boys to be called by a double, so you might indeed have trouble there. I am always correcting people with mine and though I love my name, it is a bother sometimes.

Sarah -- I was thinking, maybe make up a surname-y name? Asherman or Asherton? Otherwise, I don't think Asher would work as a first name. Maybe it'd work as a middle name, with you and Asher insisting on being called by his middle name. I feel your pain (because of my surname, I had to nix Mary, Meadow and Willow. Good thing I love so many other names, too. I might still fight for Willow, though) and I wish you luck.

Anon. -- Jane would sound sophisticated in a playground of Madisons and Ashleys. I also really like Claire. Anna Jane would be nice, too.

Good site! Good resources here, All the best!

I like Jane--I agree that it sounds sophisticated. Of your list, I also like Hope and Claire a lot, and Anna (but not so much with the double name). They're all nice--can't go wrong with any of them. My only comment is that Sarah must've been the most popular name the year I was born, because I had about 3-10 of them in every grade level. It got so bad you couldn't even go by last initials, because I was friends with 3 "Sarah W.s" at one time! So it's a nice enough name, but I'm a bit biased against it.

"It seems that some people are DETERMINED to shorten names. As the parent of a "Benjamin", I'm surprised at how many people want to call him "Ben" even though we don't use it."

Eo, this is an interesting comment to me, mostly because I think I am one of the people you are talking about. It's not that I am determined to call people by a shortened name, but I think many of us are so used to knowing a million Bens, Chrises, Matts (can you tell I'm a child of the '80s?), etc. that the ones who go by their full names sometimes seem to be in the minority. As a high school teacher, I am also sensitive of that "first day of school" problem so many kids have when they know all their teachers are going to call them by their given name on the roll, so I will often automatically go to a nickname and then have the student correct me otherwise. Anyway, to tie that back to your point, I'm not sure many Catherines today are being called Cathy. I know that I don't shorten my students' names who are called Catherine.

Anonymous: I wouldn't worry about Jane being too plain, but I would probably stay away from it if your last name is really common. I'd probably also match it with a more unusual middle name. The first Jane I met was my friend's aunt when I was 10 or so. I really liked the name because I had never known anyone with it before!

If you go with Katherine, I don't think it will be too hard to get ppl to use Kate because it is an established nn that people will have an easy time wrapping their heads around.

Is anyone else curious about Amber's last name that eliminated Mary, Meadow, and Willow as baby name possibilities? I'm going to think about it on my drive into work tomorrow. Haha...

I must say that I agree with Eo and subsequent posters in thinking that the name Jane is given a rather harsh and unfair treatment. For me Jane's charm is it's honest simplicity.

I don't think you can really go wrong with any of the names on your list as they are almost without exception tried and tested historical names. Personally I'm not a lover of Hope but the only real problem I can foresee is Anna being too similar to Aaron (maybe?)...

Sorry to double post but I forgot to say: don't be put off Catherine or Lucy because of perceived nickname issues.

The odd person has attempted to call me Kathy over the years and has always received a rather stern look in return for their efforts! As a general rule nicknames only take off if you let them, so my advice (which I feel more than qualified to dispense!) is either stick to Catherine or choose your preferred nickname early on.

You are all really helpful, thanks!

Jane [my maiden name][last name] is going on the short list. We'll see what my husband thinks. Our last name is not incredibly common, but it's not unusual either. Think "Wilson" (that's not it, ours is a little less common) and you get the idea. I live in the Southeastern US, by the way, and it is (or at least was) pretty normal for babies of either sex to have the mom's maiden or surname as a middle.

I think Jane is going to come back. I think it should, anyway. If we use it, maybe it'll wait and not come back too fast, hee hee.

I am disappointed that Amelia can be called trendy, lol. Isn't it annoying when other people have the same good idea you do? I think it'll stay on the list even though it does "feel" different than Aaron and the others. Wonder how high it'll go in the next few years.

Amber -- maybe your last name starts with R? That's all I can think of. FWIW, my husband wanted to use Willow W(something) so we'd have a www. baby. Har dee har.

Just a comment about 'automatic nickname names'. Every first day of school I get 'Liz or Beth?' To which I respond, 'just Elizabeth'. Everyone is so eager to shorten my name! It's annoying and I'll try to avoid it with my child.

I'm guessing that the last name that sounds terrible with Mary, Meadow, and Willow is something like Raro. Not that I know of that as a name, but it sure sounds like a tongue twister, especially with Mary! Though Mary Meadow Willow Raro almost has a musical quality to it...but more like one in musical theater than anything else.

Re: the last name that Mary, Willow, and Meadow don't go with... I'm guessing it's something that starts with a W and that there's some well-known/infamous Mary of that name. Or, perhaps the last name is Reed... Mary Reed is a bit of a tongue twister, and Willow Reed and Meadow Reed sound more like country clubs than names. I hope this guessing game isn't uncomfortable for the original poster... I don't mean to "out" the name, it's just a fun little puzzle for us name enthusiasts!

Ooh, and Raro is very possible!

Anonymous, I think Jane is a very pretty name. I've yet to meet someone in my age group (late 20's) or younger with that name, so it would be a refreshing change of pace.

I also like Amelia (but agree it's rather popular), and Catherine (nn Cate).

My mom always watched Days of Our Lives when I was a kid, so I can't associate the name Hope with anything but it. Lucy is short and sweet.

People have often attempted to shorten my name to Dani. It meets with about the same look I imagine Katharine gives to prospective nickname givers! (Why the obsession with shortening names without being asked to?)

Laura,
Thanks for recommending the Betsy Tacy books a few posts back. I had read them as a child and loved them, and immediately checked out the first in the series for my five-year old daughter. We're having a grand time reading it. The section I read tonight contains a paragraph about the names that Betsy and Tacy picked out for their paper dolls. The eight-year old paper dolls had "boring" names like Jane, Martha, Hannah, and Jemima, while the five-year old dolls had "pretty" names like Millicent, Madeline, Evelyn, and Lucille.

My daughter thought that was hilarious, especially as she has a good friend named Madeline. She loved the idea that Betsy and Tacy chose that name for their paper dolls.

Anonymous,
I adore every name on your list except Sarah. It's a fine name; just a bit vanilla to my ear.
I know a little Jane. She is called Janie by her parents, and her sister is an Abigail nn Abby. Her parents are super hip, so I'm betting Jane is on its way back. I also think it fits in just fine with other names currently in style. Although my preference is for older names, one thing I do like about current naming trends is how you can find classes with Madisyns and Cades playing right along side Charlottes and Jaspers.
Of the others on your list, I love the idea of Anna-Claire. In my particular circle, just Claire and just Anna are quite popular (all the Sophies seem to have sisters named Anna). I don't know any Anna Claires, though, and I think it's darling. I also adore Lucy, although I'm partial to it as a nn for Lucia. If it would please the in-laws, I think that is a big plus.
Catherine may be called Cate but Cathy seems unlikely.
Hope and Amelia are lovely as well.
You can hardly go wrong!

Oh, and I just wanted to add that I taught junior high school for many years, and in my experience name-teasing is usually reserved for names that rhyme with or sound like scatalogical terms or sexual references. On the other hand, as others have noted before, any name can become the subject of a taunt if the child has become the target of bullies for some other reason.
As for compulsive nicknaming, I have to admit I catch myself doing it from time to time, especially with small children with oversize names. I promise I never do it if I'm told not to, though!
BTW, eo-isn't our current President sort of famous for this? Just teasing!
I do hope Banks is catching on; I just love it!

Anonymous: Jane is sweet...if I didn't have personal issues with it it would be on my short list. Also like Claire, Anna Claire, and Sarah.

Beth: I don't think most ppl think of Glen as a nature name, but more as one associated with John Glenn...and the G-l sound isn't really in right now anyway. But hey, you never know!

If I named my daughter Mary Sadira as a double first would it be hard to get people to call her the full thing? Because I like both names and to my ear they balance each other well....

And does anyone like John Vincent or John Walter as a double first for a boy?

Thanks so much.

Interesting that Katharine, Elizabeth and Danielle have all experienced chagrin at having their names arbitrarily shortened. Exactly how we felt when "Benjamin" was truncated, and to add insult to injury, down to a diminutive that we never use! At seven, he's gotten pretty nimble at introducing himself by his full name, but adding, "But please call me 'Banks'-- it's my nickname!"

Not to be too pompous about it, but when someone alters your name, even to what they consider to be a "universal" or "friendly" nickname, they are somehow not taking you seriously. On the other hand, I'm always flattered if they ask first "What do you prefer?", or even "What are you called?", before assuming what that might be.

That said, jt, we completely see that most people shorten names with the utmost goodwill, and we try not to be TOO humorless about it...

Oh, sadhbh, just saw your post. I've always really liked "John Henry", and my grandfather's double name, "John Wesley". Your examples with Vincent and Walter are equally charming for a boy, and distinguished for an adult. The name "John" seems to lend itself especially well to this double naming...

With so many last name first names being discussed, I have to ask: has anyone heard or seen the name Bellamy used as a first name?

I read through movie credits for fun, looking for unusual names, and somewhere Bellamy showed up twice as a last name. It sounds really quite unisex: but if you think of nick names, it is probably more likely to fall on the feminine side. The meaning is possibly also more female friendly:
"from Bellesme, a town of France; or it may be Belami, French, a dear and excellent friend; from bel, fair or beautiful, and ami, a friend or companion"

If nothing else, would make a great name for a poodle mix. ;)

J&H's mom's post about the sisters Janie and Abby reminded me about a topic I'm interested in: those babies Abigails! The name has been in the top 20 since 1998 and the top 10 since 2001. Where are they concentrated? What trend to they fit into?

Also, hyz's discussion of Sarah brings up another thought/question. I've known tons of Sarahs in my lifetime, none of whom were Sally or Sadie; that said, to me the name never seemed tiresome. At least with it girls could choose sides -- Sara v. Sarah -- so there was more spice to it. (On the other hand, boys named Michael or David or Daniel almost always had to be called by their last names alone.)

I suppose my name will be like that when the turn-of-the-century babies start hitting adolescence, unsurprising but not dull. Or... here is another possibility altogether... does Hannah seem trendy? Similarly, does Emily? Will a baby named Emily in 2020 seem like a throwback child? And why is Emily popular?

Oh, and I love the name Jane.

sadhbh --
I think Mary Sadira is very pretty. From my own experience I'd say it might be easier to get people to use a double name in some parts of the country than others (it isn't that weird down South where I am). Mainly you have to just keep telling people, and so will she, all her life. I usually let it slide if it's people I'm not going to be around long-term, but that's a little annoying because my first name by itself is Not My Name. Still, being called half of a double name is an honest mistake (who would know?), so it's not as bad as having a longer name chopped against your will, which seems presumptuous. And a double name is a good way to weed out telemarketers.

As for the boy's name -- the Redneck Rule I heard somewhere is that a boy's double name is redneck if both names are nicknames (Joe Don, Jim Bob); so you are in the clear with John Walter and John Vincent.

I've posted more than my share tonight, but I've been wondering about Bellamy also!
I can't remember where I ran into it, but it seems like it would be the perfect solution for parents wanting something less common than Isabelle (which is uber popular out here) that would lend itself to Belle or Bella.
Maybe it's just yet to be discovered!

Hannah does remind me of Emily in that it seems to be an enduring trend-if that isn't too much of an oxymoron.
Most of the Hannahs I know are in their teens, but I also know twenty-something Hannahs and little ones, too.
In my older son's preschool class there is a little girl named Hannah, and another child has a mom named Hannah.

The puzzle to me is trying to define the difference between Emily and Emma.
I seem to run into scads of little Emmas but relatively few Emilys, even though both are near the top of the charts.

I adore John Walter.
Mary Sadira is a lovely blend of the familiar and the exotic. I've always liked double fns, but they're quite unusual here.

RobynT: Yes!! I am very curious. :)

Anna Claire
Amelia Claire
I really like Anna Jane. My own MIL is Jane and I like the name and would loke to honor her by using it. Maybe I will have to look into a double name possibilty. Which brings me to another point... I want to hear name guru pros and cons for double names... ?? :)

I know someone who, for cultural reasons, named her kid with a double first name, both with three syllables. Whew! Plus, the last syllable of the first name and the first syllable of the second name are the same. I wonder if she really thought that through.

(BTW, the post above from "Me" was me. I left off a letter.)

Love Jane, but I think you need a two syllable or more surname and not a very common surname to balance it. Mary Sadira is a big mouthful to me, and Sadira is a little too near sadist IMO. But then I think double ames are more common in the US than UK generally.

I love Sadira. Mary Sadira not so much. But, that is because I am just not a fan of Mary.

Jane is very nice. I agree with everyone who has mentioned that it is crisp. It has a nice sound against all the Lilys, Abbys, and Emmys out there. It is clean like Kate.

What about the name Petra for a girl? It was popular in the 1800's but has fallen off the map. Our son's name is Kane and we like uncommon names without being too odd. Petra means rock and has some religious meaning associated to it, as well as the band Petra (1960-1990's)was my favorite. Is Petra Lillian too out there?

Re: Mary Sadira: I think the tricky thing will be introductions. As an adult she'll say "Hi my name is Mary Sadira [lastname]" and people will think Sadira is part of her last name, because it's not a common given name. It's not like being called, I don't know, Mary Louise, or some other familiar name.

Re: Jane. It's on my list, partly because it's a family name, but I like names that are well-known but not super common right now. It's just a cheerful, simple name.

Re: nicknames. I think that giving a first name when you HATE some of the nicknames can be trouble--the child may very well decide that they like that nickname, and then where will you be? On the other hand, sometimes it's the kid will hate a common nickname.

I'm not Terry, never have been, never will be. I don't hate it as much as I did when I was younger, but I don't recognize it as my name, so when my boss (rarely) asks Terry to do something at a meeting we all look at each other, confused for a minute, before the penny drops.

Oh, and I love Petra. Have you ever seen pictures of the city of Petra? I think that's the best-known instance of the name. I never heard of the band.

That's funny, the name Petra recently popped into my head one night as I was falling asleep, it was a lightbulb moment. I think it's a great name, and definitely not too "out there."

If you really, really do not like a nickname, or really, really do not want your child to use a nickname, do not give your child a name that can be easily morphed into something you dislike - or feel would be unsuitable for the child due to personality or bad connotation.

I spent so much time as a child explaining I am not Kris, Kristi, or Krissy, and though I've mellowed some with age, I still don't like it. Like TJ, I don't even know who people are talking to when they call me Kristi.

It's very difficult to be perpetually reminding others of your 'proper' name without coming off as a bit of a stick in the mud, and once it gets annoying (very quickly) it's hard not to get downright cranky about it. Not the kind of situation I would want to send my kids out into the world dealing with.

I do like Eo's solution - if all else fails, pick a nn that you like and stick with it! Sounds like Banks is quite a good sport about the issue!

Re: Plain Jane and Loose-cy

Teasing is not the issue with children's names. All kids will be teased at some point and if all 'they' have on you is your name, you're a lucky kid.

The real issue, for me, is twofold - firstly, a highly unusual and/or perceived 'uncool' name, or that has negative connotations for most, can immediately cast a child in the eyes of his peers as an outsider. Once judged as 'you not one of us', the child often begins to believe it.

Secondly, for the rest of a child's life, that name will be printed on job resumes, college papers, medical records, and so forth. Snap judgements will be made regarding religion, socio-economic status, level of education, even intellect.

First impressions can and do affect lives on a daily basis - we sacrifice so much to give our kids every opportunity, it just seems a pity to handicap them in such an easy-to-prevent way.

PS - I like both Jane and Lucy a lot!

I LOVE the name Petra. I had always pronounced it like it looks (PET-ruh), but this year I have a student named Petra, pronounced PAY-truh. I believe her father is Austrian. With either pronunciation I think it is a beautiful name. Isn't it the female form of Peter? That would explain the "rock" meaning.

By the way, has anyone read Freakonomics? Kristen Dawn's comment reminded me of their chapter on names. Has this already been discussed on this board? I love their predictions for the top names of 2015...possibly a good place to look if you are trying to avoid naming your child something that will be seen as trendy in a few years (unfortunately, I love most of the names on those lists).

Jane is already being used here. I think it is cute and not too plain, but I would give a more fancy middle name. Anna is a top ten name, not sure if that bothers you.

I'm not so sure about Gentry. While the name itself sounds OK, I would think it's too aspirational for use today since it's actually a word that means of (lesser) noble birth, person of high social standing eg. the "landed gentry". It seems to fit better in the era when parents gave their kids aspirational names like Worthy and Noble.

J&H's mom, and anyone else who wondered about Bellamy: The internet name sources all describe it as a boy's name, but the nickname options definitely appeal to the feminine side, like J&H's mom said, someone liking Bella but not Isabella.

And also, one more meaning name from the Alvin Maker books: Armor-of-God, nn Armor. I got the rest of the series at a 2nd hand bookstore, and I am looking forward to more interestingly named characters!

Oh, also wanted to say re. nicknames. I've only ever used my full name IRL and it hasn't been a problem even though most people went by Cathy in the 70s. Sometimes people just don't remember if I go by Catherine or Cathy and usually ask. Occasionally mostly much older men will just go ahead call me Cathy, but I personally don't find it something to get bent out of shape over.

I find that some names do get automatically nicknamed and I doubt that is ever really going to change. From what I've observed in the younger set (whose parents are more likely to insist on the full name), the names that still get nicknamed are mostly three syllable names, and mostly boys ones. I think they just feel a bit cumbersome and stilted in their full forms to most people, especially on little boys.

EO, sorry to say that every single Benjamin that we know (and I'd say it's probably the top boys name here, with at least 1 or 2 in each class) is Ben. I think you've found your only solution by making up another nickname for him!

I have a dear friend in her early 30s named Petra (PAY-tra). Her parents named her after a friend from Germany. I think it's a great name you should consider!

I like Petra (pronounced PEH-tra)--I knew a girl called that in high schooll, her parents are Hungarian. It is the feminine of Peter, and I like the meaning--rock. Similarly, I knew a girl called Pernilla, parents were Swedish, that I thought was cute.

I agree that Gentry is a little too aspirational in a not so nice way--it's not a virtue, but a social status, and some might find that distasteful.

I'm not generally a big fan of doubles, but Anna Claire and Anna Jane are nice. I don't care for Mary Samira--if people don't want to bother with 2 or 3 syllable names (those unwanted nns we're talking about), a 5 syllable one is a bit of a mouthful. I know a Mary Beth, and even that gets slurred to "mare-BETH". I also knew a Laura Kate that was always "lor-KATE". Double names generally sound fairly 1950s Catholic to me, which is quaint in its way, but not for me.

Oh, and I know lots of "just" Catherines, Elizabeths, Timothys, Angelas, etc. I figure you have to stick to your guns, but it can be done

Just wanted to weigh in on the strange names you can find. My mom found a man named Green Berry Brown doing some family history for a friend. Also, my daughter is in class with a girl named Canasta.
I don't have anything against nn, as I have always used mine, but I can't stand to have someone try to shorten my son and daughters names-Christian and Katherine. Their longer names fit their personalities and it feels like some people are trying to make them less somehow. Does that make sense?

To J&H's mom:

What sort of neighborhood do you live in? What's the educational and ethnic background of the parents of the small children you run into?

Newly popular names which are revivals of "old-fashioned" names tend to first become popular with highly educated parents, and then, if they get the right kinds of publicity because of that, spread to other segments of the population. Emily "came back" in the USA about 20 years before Emma did. When I was starting to collect name statistics in the early 1980s I was in Michigan, and was able to contrast the naming patterns of Ann Arbor and Detroit. Already around 1983 Emily was very popular in Ann Arbor; college professors were the first people to bring the name back. But 24 years later, Emily has now spread way beyond that demographic.

(continued)

Oh, I love Jane. But I'm a little sad at the comments. It's the name I've always planned to use, and I really don't want it to be a big hit when the time comes. Sigh ;)

Emma is the "replacement" for Emily. Its popularity also began with the highly educated, but it hasn't been back long enough for a lot of other groups to pick it up again yet. This is especially true if you are talking about young girls who are over the age of five and so wouldn't have had parents influenced by the baby on "Friends".

So for elementary school age girls, Emily and Emma should both be common, but the Emmas should be much more concentrated in neighborhoods where most of the parents have college educations than the Emilys are.

I rather like double names. I have a young great grand niece named Grace Anna. I had hoped they would call her GraceAnna which I think has a nice lilt to it, but she is now known as Gracie. (Her great grandmother is Grace).

On the subject of nicknames, I know a Kathryn and a Kathleen - each called Kathy by their close families when young but in adulthood have chosen to be known by their full names. On the other hand I know a Catherine who has insisted on being Kate! Truly a personal choice in the long run.

Kristin Dawn, while I agree that one's name is no small matter, first-impression-wise, I think I approach "avoiding a name that will get you teased" from a different angle. Bear in mind that I am not a mother, just a snot-nosed twentysomething.

Growing up, the ONLY person I remember being teased about his name was a boy named Shu who was on my soccer team, and in that instance his being teased had as much to do with racism and xenophobia as it had to do with what he was called. It was horrible. Does this mean he should have gone by Sean? Here my naivete shows, perhaps: I don't think his name was the problem; indeed, I think the jerks on our soccer team were. Although I would never, ever wish his torment on anyone, I would much rather have a child who respected his or her name and the names of others than the Michaels and Anthonys and Jessicas and Matthews I played with.

Huzzah for world peace, then.

Interesting comments about Emily/Emma. So, referring to a previous poster's question, will Emily sound "dated" eventually since it's used so widely now? Emma? Is Amelia headed that way?

(I'm not going to worry about Jane, not being clairvoyant.) :)

Petra I like, though I wouldn't use it myself (would sound totally out of sync in my Southern family).

Eo, I have a cousin whose son is named Banks! I think it's a surname from the inlaw's family.

There are very few names, especially for girls, that have been used consistently enough over a long enough period of time that they have never sounded "dated". Among the really common names, Elizabeth and Katherine are about the only two that give you no ability to predict the bearer's age when you hear them. Even Sarah is "dated" in the sense that women of Baby Boom age are much less likely to have that name than women older or younger than that generation. I certainly don't expect Emily, Emma, or Amelia to remain as common over the next 50 years as they are now, so it is probable that they will be "dateable" just like almost all girls' names are.

Hannah, I guess what I'm trying to say is, I don't think name-related teasing is the issue at all. I think it is subconscious psychological judgements that people make without even knowing they are doing it.

I bet we all have a certain gut reaction to Madhycyn Smith, as opposed to a Madeleine Smith. Can you honestly say you wouldn't be more likely to hire one as opposed to the other?

Regarding outright teasing, I agree with you in spirit. I do think that having a cross to bear can be very constructive to one's psyche. And an overly slavish adherence to popularity or normalcy can be harmful as well (including being dangerous to society at large).

My main concern is a child that may already have enough crosses to bear in life for whatever reason, and really doesn't need another reason to be constantly sticking out like a sore thumb.

Also, concerning ethnic names, at least when I was in school (twenty plus years ago) the minority kids were never, ever teased for having unusual names. It was the ordinary, run of the mill kids, whose names were perceived as weird, that were considered strange.

Thinking back to the kids I knew who were really, really unpopular, they virtually always had highly unusual (for the time) names.

Bert
Wes
Virgil
Harold
Leroy
Jerry
Roland
Art
Gene

Corrine
Roberta
Clara
Dorothy
Alydia
Emily (rare at the time)

Were there popular kids who had odd names? Yes, a couple. Were there unpopular kids with normal names? Again, yes, a couple. But I would say 95% of the kids who really struggled with peer ostracism had what I would consider an 'uncool' name.

I like double names a lot. It's very common where I live and people are used to it. I currently know children named: John Cameron (there is that John with a double name), Laura Lilly, Lily Katherine. I also know adults named Mary Emily, Mary Margaret and Ann Henley - all are called by both names.

One last thought I seriously considered a double name for my dd, but ultimately decided that my dh's family (native New Yorkers) would never really go with it. Funny thing is, we decided to call her just by her middle name and that turned out to be a bigger issue for them than I ever expected. :)

Someone asked about Hannah. My husband teaches at a large middle school. This year he says he has at least 2 Hannahs in each of his 5 classes! About 4 years ago, the name was Amanda. The whole school had 27 Amandas.

kristin dawn, that's interesting. In your examples, were the unpopular kids also "different" somehow in a negative way? For me, thinking back, the unpopular kids had fairly common names, but distinguished themselves with poor social graces or unfortunate physical traits. Theses unpopular kids were Annie, Kate, Jesse, Danielle, Elizabeth, Susannah, Hillary, Nicole, Jim, Jason, E.J., Keith....

Alternatively, some very cool kids (and adults) had both normal and very unusual names. Some unusual ones--Astrid, Inga, Maya, Alistair, Simon, Taylor, Aidan (for a girl, 20 years ago), Lily, Petra, Amelie, Natasha, Thistle, Rory, etc. Normal ones--Liz, Hannah(s), Samantha, Rachel, Sarah(s), Tim, Andy(s), Kevin(s), etc.

Really, I think your kid is going to be whoever they are, and the name may accentuate that, but probably won't make the pendulum swing the other direction.

Double names: I think it depends on the name... sometimes it just is too much consider a child who's parents would insist that she be called "Elizabeth Josephine" They are fine names individually, but a mouthful when put together.

But I think they can work in some circumstances...

A friend of mine has a daughter who is called "Emma Faye". They weren't planning to use the middle name, but with two other Emmas at daycare, they decided that "Emma Faye" was better than being "Emma C."

I also went to school with "Jennifer Lynn" and "Jennifer Lee" They both had the last name Johnson so it was the best option for them.

"I bet we all have a certain gut reaction to Madhycyn Smith, as opposed to a Madeleine Smith. Can you honestly say you wouldn't be more likely to hire one as opposed to the other?"

I know I wasn't the one being addressed -- but I honestly expect any intelligent human being who consciously knows they are having an irrational "gut reaction" to monitor themselves against letting that "gut reaction" affect their behavior toward other human beings. If Madhycyn's credentials for the job are equal to Madeline's, she should have just as good a chance of being hired by you no matter how much you detest her name, and if you can't do that, you shouldn't yourself have a position where you are deciding on hiring and firing. A "gut reaction" against someone's skin color is no excuse for not hiring them on that basis. Neither is a "gut reaction" against someone's name an excuse for not hiring them.

Anon, I think Jane is lovely. It is classic and sophisticated, and it's not overly-used these days. For some reason, I like Jane Anne. I know that's kind of an unusual combination b/c of the repetition of the a and n, but I like it.

I love the name Anna, and I like it paired with another name. I think it's a nice alternative to Mary _____. My favorite name (if I had a daughter) is Anna Katharine - Anna Kate. I think it's adorable on a baby and spunky on a little girl but will age well and could even be shortened to Anna or Kate when she's older. I also like Anna Claire. A friend of mine named her daughter this after her mom, who's name is Claire.

I really like all of the traditional names on your list, including Lucy. I think that would be a nice name for Aaron's sister - Aaron and Lucy.

I am glad to hear that Katharine is the oldest spelling of my favorite name b/c that's the way I like it (even though I'm Catherine Kelly LN.)

Anna Catherine with a "c" is nice, too!

Re: the unwanted shortening of names: I think you just have to politely correct people if it's someone who is going to call the child's name a lot. For instnance, I'm Catherine Kelly LN, so when people see my "full" name (like on a credit card) they will say, "Thank you, Catherine." It doesn't matter to me if the salesperson - or receptionist or office assistant - knows that my "real" name is Kelly, so I dont' correct that person. On the other hand, if I'm seeing a new doctor or something that I'm going to keep seeing, I will say, "It's Kelly" when they call me Catherine.

I think in the long run, if you don't want your child to use a nn, just gently correct those who really matter, and they'll use the formal name. That goes for kids who go by two names or a middle name, too.

Because I'm a middle name child and a teacher, I am sensitive to whether or not a child uses the formal name, and I always try to use the nn or middle name from the very beginning if I know it or use the full name if that's the case.

Apolgies for the spelling and punctuation errors in my last post. I'm a stickler for that sort of thing, but I didn't proofread before I hit the post button.

And then apologies for the word "Apolgies" in the apology post...I think I'd better quit posting now...!

Cleveland Kent Evans - I find it extremely unlikely that your personal gut reaction to a person's name (or any other characteristic) would affect your opinion of anyone. But, you seem a highly educated and thoughtful person. Perhaps you have more self-insight than others.

Some comments made by others on this website leads me to believe Madeleine would be better received than Madhycyn.

Of course, though you and I may find it completely objectionable, there are people in our society who do judge others on the basis of skin color, socioeconomic status, religion, etc. Since my child's name is something I can easily control, unlike those other things, I would choose a name that I feel would be well-received by a variety of people of all walks of life.

To be quite honest, gut instinct, I think I'd be more likely to hire Madhycyn. Madeleine sounds like the spoiled offspring of pretentious rich people while Madhycyn may have had a few mountains to climb. Appeals to the egalitarian in me...

Jane is a lovely, classic name, and has the benefit of being somewhat unusual at the moment (though it may make a comeback).

"Plain Jane" is not an expression that's used much anymore, particularly among kids so I wouldn't worry about that.

I think it pairs quite well with a two-syllable W-last name, and would recommend a longer and slightly fancier middle name if you decide not to go with your maiden name as the middle.

Something like:

Jane Cecelia
Jane Cecily
Jane Cassandra (Jane Austen's beloved sister was named Cassandra)
Jane Lucia
Jane Amelia (but then you'd have initials JAW, so not such a good idea)
Jane Miranda
Jane Lydia
Jane Rebecca
Jane

Hyz - The unpopular kids did indeed have a variety of negative personality traits and issues. I am forced to wonder, however, if it is somehow a chicken/egg scenario, i.e., if one is perceived as an outsider from age 5, one is thereby completely unmotivated to try and take on positive characteristics to fit in with your peers.

All young children exhibit undesirable behaviors during the primary years but at some point most decide to take on more socially desirable ones. Why? Because undesirable behaviors are punished while desirable ones are rewarded. If you are being ostracized for things you have no control over - appearance, lack of fancy clothing, or your name - what possible motivation would you have to try and shed behavior that others dislike?

sadhbh: I like both Mary Sadira and your John combos. None of them feels excessively long and I think having the sort of common Mary and John gives the second names reasons to be there, if that makes sense.

The Letter K: I feel like someone has mentioned Bellamy before... In any case, I think it has a nice sound. I immeidately think of Bill Bellamy but that is such an old, weak association that I'm not even sure who he is--an African American actor or singer I think. Maybe VJ?

tiffany: i love the name petra. i think i met a girl from europe with this name. like eastern or northern europe. i don't think petra lillian is too out there. i like kane and petra together too. i can definitely see your style: a bit unusual, but not too out there or difficult. thanks for posting the definition too. i once used this name for a character in a short story to draw similarities to her fears (petrified). i like the "real" definition better.

Another piece of the puzzle that may shed insight is the possibility that parents drawn to names very far off the beaten path, may tend to be somehow odd themselves or unstable - a lot of the names from my childhood seem to be that of an older generation. Maybe they were much older parents with very large families, unable to give their younger children adequate attention, or lived below the poverty level and were unable to provide their kids with proper clothing, food, etc. It may even be that a lack of education and limited life experience may have contributed to the situation - you can't give your child a name you've never heard of if you are unaware of popular naming trends.

It's amazing how complicated something as simple as a name can be! Issues of history, psychology, geography, culture, all are part of the equation.

kristin d