The Baby Name Wizard

Thanks for the help. I will definitely consider Ashton and Ashford. Though I love Asher I'm not sure I'm willing to subject my son to years of teasing just b/c I like it. I was never teased much for my name so I really don't know what it is like.

Sarah R: Ashton is a family name that I won't get to use because I'm only having one child. It's lovely, though curses to Ashton Kutcher for having it. To me, Ashton Rew seems very dignified and yet also cute. Whereas Asher Rew, yes, Gezundtheit!

It seems to me that one place you see noun-names that are "aspirational" in the way of Wealthy or Governor, or indicative of character like Spicy, is in African-American naming practices. A friend of mine teaches a Diamond, a Precious, and a Lexus, and I know another preschool with a Dollar.

One nature-y name that's been puzzling me is Glen. It took me a long time to realize that it WAS a nature-y name, since to me it's locked in the 1970s with names like Derek, Keith, Scott, and Brian. But since nature names are in again, does it now count?

Sarah R., I just wanted to voice my agreement with what others have already said. Asher Rew just doesn't work. I really like Ashton, though!

cb--You're entirely right re the spelling of Henry VIII's Kathys. The ones I mentioned are just the ones that came up on the first site I checked. When you consider the number of ways Shakespeare's name is recorded, pretty much anything's possible. Also, now that I think about it, at a time when most people were illiterate, I can't imagine much, if any, thought was given to how a name was spelled.
Many of my grade school report cards said "Arline," which annoyed me no end even as a kid. It just didn't "look" like me; still doesn't.

Sarah R: I like Asher (it was my father's Hebrew name), but I have to agree re Asher Rew (gesundheit!). Too bad Ashton makes us all think of Kutcher, but i don't think he's going to have enough of a long-term career to make the association a big factor.

And don't forget, Michael Jackson's children

Prince, Paris and....Blanket. (???)

Actually, Michael Jackson's kids names are even weirder than what you just wrote: Prince Michael Jackson, Jr., Paris Michael Katherine Jackson, and Prince Michael Jackson II

Sarah, I think a fn/mn combo works best when both names are one syllable. For example, John Mark or John Paul. (I use both of those because I know a guy by each of those names, adults, and everyone calls them by both names). They wouldn't have to be biblical names by any means (although Asher definitely is), but I think a multiple syllable fn asks to stand alone, and most would definitely drop the mn.

Don't forget Michael's brother Jermaine! He named his baby Jermajesty.
Haven Kimmel and Temple Grandin are popular authors. They may not inspire people to pick their names, but they may make their names more familiar. (Step one in making a name more popular.)
Sarah R.-Definitely no on "Asher Rew". Blame it all on your husband!
Mormons love girls names with the -lee sound at the end so I'm not surprised about Heavenly. At least it's not "Celestial". That's even cheesier.

The originial "one hit wonder" status Ms. Wattenberg posted is only valid if you take the gender into account. Haven is NOT a "one hit wonder" for girls. It's already on a pronounced upward swing for girls, first entering the SSA list at #939 in 1996 and rising to #610 in 2006.

Katharine does NOT ultimately derive from the Greek word "katharos" meaning "pure". But it is one of the earliest examples of a _mistaken_ etymology affecting the form of the name. The original Katharine was St. Katharine of Alexandria. Her name was Aikaterine. When her story came to Rome, churchmen writing in Latin wrongly assumed that her name was derived from "katharos", which is how it lost its first syllable and the "t" changed to "th" in most of the languages of western Europe. Russian still has Yekaterina as a form more closely approximating the original. Unfortunately, no one knows the derivation of Aikaterine, and many guess it's actually some greatly altered form from Coptic or ancient Egyptian.

I really hope Gentry as a first name never sees popularity. It's my maiden name and I would love to use it as a FN sometime. Girl or boy, it sounds good either way.

Jennie W: I was curious about your comment about Mormons using girls' names ending in "lee." Is there a specific reason for that? I knew a Mormon family in which the boys all had Biblical names and the two girls had names ending in "lee" and "lie" (pronounced lee).

Anne/kq-

Yes! Verily is a name in the Alvin Maker series by Orson Scott Card. He comes from an ultra-Puritanical New England where all people are named after Bible Verses. He is "Verily, come unto me." I think his mother's name in the book was Wept, after the shortest verse in the Bible, "He Wept." Very interesting naming ideas in that series.

The spellings we're used to seeing for Henry's wives are a standardization used by modern historians to help tell them apart. During their lifetimes various spellings would have been considered acceptable. Don't know what the reason is for the Kathryn/Katherine spellings. Catherine of Aragon is usually spelled with a C today because it's closest to Catarina, which is the name she was actually born with. Catarina was changed to the more English Catherine when she first came to Britian to marry Henry's older brother.

Eo, I think Alvilde is a variation of Alfhild/Alvhild/etc, in that case it's Norse/Norwegian, but there might be German variants as well. The original name would probably be Alfhild (Alf=elf, hild = fight, battle)

Thanks everyone for the feedback re. Verily...

Philippa: I also had a hunch that my spelling was the oldest/traditional form but with no evidence to back this assertion up. That is, except to say that Shakespeare used it in the 'Henry' plays and 'Loves Labours Lost' and is a good enough source for me!

However, there is no need for such deliberation as Cleveland Kent Evans has cleared the matter up and proved our hunch to be correct. I'm always interested in the correct derivation of names (especially when it's my name in question!) so, thanks for that Cleveland Kent Evans...

I've known a Cinnamon and a Pepper!

I know (of) a Cinnamon -- she's an administrative assistant for an academic journal. Somehow, I don't think that's what he parents were picturing her when they named her! Moral: be careful with those unusual and strongly evocative names.

I was wondering Laura, of the list of one-hit wonders, what was the biggest hit. That is, what name was ranked the highest in the year it was ranked. Most one-hitters rank pretty low, 8 or 900's commonly, as would be expected. But if some name came in with a big splash then vanished, there would no doubt be a good story

May I ask what you all think about the name Jane? Too much potential for "Plain Jane" teasing? Would it sound dowdy if we moved into an area full of Madisons and Ashleys? (It would fit in fine where we live now, I think.) I'd appreciate other thoughts, too. Our son's name is Aaron; our last name starts with W and is 2 syllables. Our baby's middle name is likely to be either my maiden name (2 syllables, starts with a consonant), Anne (family name), or the second half of a double name. We like traditional names. Another question -- since our son's middle name is my father's, should I be concerned about my inlaws' feelings if our daughter is named after my mom? (I'd love to use the ILs' names if I could wrap my head around them, but I just can't.)

Our current list:

Amelia
Anna something (double name w/Grace, Claire, etc)
Sarah (sounds too similar to Aaron?)
Catherine (but we don't want Cathy)
Claire
Hope?
Jane?
Lucy? (the only family name on DH's side that I like, but he is not on board)

Thanks!

And more to the topic, since my last post was kind of hijack-y: I saw Woodfin on an earlier one-hit wonder post. That is the name of one of DH's uncles.

Also, I knew a Dagny in school. She pronounced it with a hard G (DAG-nee).

I like Jane, but definitely not Jane Anne. I'm not sure about "Plain Jane" teasing, but, ironically, Jane would have a much more rare name within her age-group than all of the Madisons and Ashleys. Amelia is beautiful, but it's a bit more trendy than the rest of your choices, if that matters to you. I like Anna on its own -- is there a reason you want to double it up? Sarah does sound a little similar to Aaron... "Sarah and Aaron" becomes a bit of a tongue twister, but if you love the name, I don't think it's a big deal. With Catherine, what nn. do you like, if any? I prefer spelling it with a K, mainly because I prefer Kate or Kat to Cate or Cat. Hope, I like, and Claire's not my style. Lucy, I can never never decide on... would she get teased about being "loose" during the awkward years? How about Anna Jane, as a way of sprucing up both names, since you seem to be worried about them being plain? Anna Claire and Claire Anne both work. I say, if you love Jane, go for it. All of your choices are lovely.

Also, Anonymous, have you considered Alice? I think it fits with your style, and it's one of my personal favorite. I don't know if it's too "matchy" with Aaron, but you could also use Alice Jane. I've been thinking lately that Alice and Jane would be lovely sister names, as well, if you ever have another girl!

miamaria-- Thanks so much. Had wondered about a Norse angle. I'm always so thrilled when someone takes the time to answer these obscure name questions, like you and Swan Ceylon have.

As someone who always notices "personal style", I also so appreciate that you guys have done it without being condescending or boorish. Information without swagger-- it's a lovely thing!

Anonymous-- I like Jane very much-- luminous, historical, and tried and true. Ditto Anna and Lucy. Catherine is super also. Given your concerns about "Cathy" , though, a note of caution regarding the longer, traditional names that have established nicknames. It seems that some people are DETERMINED to shorten names. As the parent of a "Benjamin", I'm surprised at how many people want to call him "Ben" even though we don't use it. You almost have to insist on the formal version, or come up with a nickname you like ("Cate", "Kit" or whatever) and try to promulgate that. It takes a lot of energy!

I like Sarah Jane better than Jane alone. Anna-something or Amelia are beautiful, too. I wouldn't worry too much about fitting in with the Ashleys and Madisons. All the names on your list would travel well.

Anon - I like Jane a lot. I actually think it makes a cute double name, especially when paired with a family name. My school once had a Jane Barrett who was called by both names. Definitely not plain!

Thanks for your input, Amy and Eo!

Yes, I think Jane Anne is out because of the initials (JAW, not that that's so awful). I was thinking of Anna as half of a double name partly because it's a fairly common name here on its own, also because the double name is yet another family tradition (mine's a double, and my middle name's Anne).

I do like Alice. :) DH says no, he'd prefer Alyssa. I ask you, does that fit at all with our list? lol -- I nixed Alyssa because it's not ancient enough (laughing at myself), though it's very pretty otherwise.

Eo -- we would be those people who don't want any nickname at all, or maybe Kate. The "C" just seems right to me, but you're right, nobody would use Cate or Catherine unless we made a point of it.

Sarah R -- re the double name for a boy -- it is very uncommon where I live for boys to be called by a double, so you might indeed have trouble there. I am always correcting people with mine and though I love my name, it is a bother sometimes.

Sarah -- I was thinking, maybe make up a surname-y name? Asherman or Asherton? Otherwise, I don't think Asher would work as a first name. Maybe it'd work as a middle name, with you and Asher insisting on being called by his middle name. I feel your pain (because of my surname, I had to nix Mary, Meadow and Willow. Good thing I love so many other names, too. I might still fight for Willow, though) and I wish you luck.

Anon. -- Jane would sound sophisticated in a playground of Madisons and Ashleys. I also really like Claire. Anna Jane would be nice, too.

Good site! Good resources here, All the best!

I like Jane--I agree that it sounds sophisticated. Of your list, I also like Hope and Claire a lot, and Anna (but not so much with the double name). They're all nice--can't go wrong with any of them. My only comment is that Sarah must've been the most popular name the year I was born, because I had about 3-10 of them in every grade level. It got so bad you couldn't even go by last initials, because I was friends with 3 "Sarah W.s" at one time! So it's a nice enough name, but I'm a bit biased against it.

"It seems that some people are DETERMINED to shorten names. As the parent of a "Benjamin", I'm surprised at how many people want to call him "Ben" even though we don't use it."

Eo, this is an interesting comment to me, mostly because I think I am one of the people you are talking about. It's not that I am determined to call people by a shortened name, but I think many of us are so used to knowing a million Bens, Chrises, Matts (can you tell I'm a child of the '80s?), etc. that the ones who go by their full names sometimes seem to be in the minority. As a high school teacher, I am also sensitive of that "first day of school" problem so many kids have when they know all their teachers are going to call them by their given name on the roll, so I will often automatically go to a nickname and then have the student correct me otherwise. Anyway, to tie that back to your point, I'm not sure many Catherines today are being called Cathy. I know that I don't shorten my students' names who are called Catherine.

Anonymous: I wouldn't worry about Jane being too plain, but I would probably stay away from it if your last name is really common. I'd probably also match it with a more unusual middle name. The first Jane I met was my friend's aunt when I was 10 or so. I really liked the name because I had never known anyone with it before!

If you go with Katherine, I don't think it will be too hard to get ppl to use Kate because it is an established nn that people will have an easy time wrapping their heads around.

Is anyone else curious about Amber's last name that eliminated Mary, Meadow, and Willow as baby name possibilities? I'm going to think about it on my drive into work tomorrow. Haha...

I must say that I agree with Eo and subsequent posters in thinking that the name Jane is given a rather harsh and unfair treatment. For me Jane's charm is it's honest simplicity.

I don't think you can really go wrong with any of the names on your list as they are almost without exception tried and tested historical names. Personally I'm not a lover of Hope but the only real problem I can foresee is Anna being too similar to Aaron (maybe?)...

Sorry to double post but I forgot to say: don't be put off Catherine or Lucy because of perceived nickname issues.

The odd person has attempted to call me Kathy over the years and has always received a rather stern look in return for their efforts! As a general rule nicknames only take off if you let them, so my advice (which I feel more than qualified to dispense!) is either stick to Catherine or choose your preferred nickname early on.

You are all really helpful, thanks!

Jane [my maiden name][last name] is going on the short list. We'll see what my husband thinks. Our last name is not incredibly common, but it's not unusual either. Think "Wilson" (that's not it, ours is a little less common) and you get the idea. I live in the Southeastern US, by the way, and it is (or at least was) pretty normal for babies of either sex to have the mom's maiden or surname as a middle.

I think Jane is going to come back. I think it should, anyway. If we use it, maybe it'll wait and not come back too fast, hee hee.

I am disappointed that Amelia can be called trendy, lol. Isn't it annoying when other people have the same good idea you do? I think it'll stay on the list even though it does "feel" different than Aaron and the others. Wonder how high it'll go in the next few years.

Amber -- maybe your last name starts with R? That's all I can think of. FWIW, my husband wanted to use Willow W(something) so we'd have a www. baby. Har dee har.

Just a comment about 'automatic nickname names'. Every first day of school I get 'Liz or Beth?' To which I respond, 'just Elizabeth'. Everyone is so eager to shorten my name! It's annoying and I'll try to avoid it with my child.

I'm guessing that the last name that sounds terrible with Mary, Meadow, and Willow is something like Raro. Not that I know of that as a name, but it sure sounds like a tongue twister, especially with Mary! Though Mary Meadow Willow Raro almost has a musical quality to it...but more like one in musical theater than anything else.

Re: the last name that Mary, Willow, and Meadow don't go with... I'm guessing it's something that starts with a W and that there's some well-known/infamous Mary of that name. Or, perhaps the last name is Reed... Mary Reed is a bit of a tongue twister, and Willow Reed and Meadow Reed sound more like country clubs than names. I hope this guessing game isn't uncomfortable for the original poster... I don't mean to "out" the name, it's just a fun little puzzle for us name enthusiasts!

Ooh, and Raro is very possible!

Anonymous, I think Jane is a very pretty name. I've yet to meet someone in my age group (late 20's) or younger with that name, so it would be a refreshing change of pace.

I also like Amelia (but agree it's rather popular), and Catherine (nn Cate).

My mom always watched Days of Our Lives when I was a kid, so I can't associate the name Hope with anything but it. Lucy is short and sweet.

People have often attempted to shorten my name to Dani. It meets with about the same look I imagine Katharine gives to prospective nickname givers! (Why the obsession with shortening names without being asked to?)

Laura,
Thanks for recommending the Betsy Tacy books a few posts back. I had read them as a child and loved them, and immediately checked out the first in the series for my five-year old daughter. We're having a grand time reading it. The section I read tonight contains a paragraph about the names that Betsy and Tacy picked out for their paper dolls. The eight-year old paper dolls had "boring" names like Jane, Martha, Hannah, and Jemima, while the five-year old dolls had "pretty" names like Millicent, Madeline, Evelyn, and Lucille.

My daughter thought that was hilarious, especially as she has a good friend named Madeline. She loved the idea that Betsy and Tacy chose that name for their paper dolls.

Anonymous,
I adore every name on your list except Sarah. It's a fine name; just a bit vanilla to my ear.
I know a little Jane. She is called Janie by her parents, and her sister is an Abigail nn Abby. Her parents are super hip, so I'm betting Jane is on its way back. I also think it fits in just fine with other names currently in style. Although my preference is for older names, one thing I do like about current naming trends is how you can find classes with Madisyns and Cades playing right along side Charlottes and Jaspers.
Of the others on your list, I love the idea of Anna-Claire. In my particular circle, just Claire and just Anna are quite popular (all the Sophies seem to have sisters named Anna). I don't know any Anna Claires, though, and I think it's darling. I also adore Lucy, although I'm partial to it as a nn for Lucia. If it would please the in-laws, I think that is a big plus.
Catherine may be called Cate but Cathy seems unlikely.
Hope and Amelia are lovely as well.
You can hardly go wrong!

Oh, and I just wanted to add that I taught junior high school for many years, and in my experience name-teasing is usually reserved for names that rhyme with or sound like scatalogical terms or sexual references. On the other hand, as others have noted before, any name can become the subject of a taunt if the child has become the target of bullies for some other reason.
As for compulsive nicknaming, I have to admit I catch myself doing it from time to time, especially with small children with oversize names. I promise I never do it if I'm told not to, though!
BTW, eo-isn't our current President sort of famous for this? Just teasing!
I do hope Banks is catching on; I just love it!

Anonymous: Jane is sweet...if I didn't have personal issues with it it would be on my short list. Also like Claire, Anna Claire, and Sarah.

Beth: I don't think most ppl think of Glen as a nature name, but more as one associated with John Glenn...and the G-l sound isn't really in right now anyway. But hey, you never know!

If I named my daughter Mary Sadira as a double first would it be hard to get people to call her the full thing? Because I like both names and to my ear they balance each other well....

And does anyone like John Vincent or John Walter as a double first for a boy?

Thanks so much.

Interesting that Katharine, Elizabeth and Danielle have all experienced chagrin at having their names arbitrarily shortened. Exactly how we felt when "Benjamin" was truncated, and to add insult to injury, down to a diminutive that we never use! At seven, he's gotten pretty nimble at introducing himself by his full name, but adding, "But please call me 'Banks'-- it's my nickname!"

Not to be too pompous about it, but when someone alters your name, even to what they consider to be a "universal" or "friendly" nickname, they are somehow not taking you seriously. On the other hand, I'm always flattered if they ask first "What do you prefer?", or even "What are you called?", before assuming what that might be.

That said, jt, we completely see that most people shorten names with the utmost goodwill, and we try not to be TOO humorless about it...

Oh, sadhbh, just saw your post. I've always really liked "John Henry", and my grandfather's double name, "John Wesley". Your examples with Vincent and Walter are equally charming for a boy, and distinguished for an adult. The name "John" seems to lend itself especially well to this double naming...

With so many last name first names being discussed, I have to ask: has anyone heard or seen the name Bellamy used as a first name?

I read through movie credits for fun, looking for unusual names, and somewhere Bellamy showed up twice as a last name. It sounds really quite unisex: but if you think of nick names, it is probably more likely to fall on the feminine side. The meaning is possibly also more female friendly:
"from Bellesme, a town of France; or it may be Belami, French, a dear and excellent friend; from bel, fair or beautiful, and ami, a friend or companion"

If nothing else, would make a great name for a poodle mix. ;)

J&H's mom's post about the sisters Janie and Abby reminded me about a topic I'm interested in: those babies Abigails! The name has been in the top 20 since 1998 and the top 10 since 2001. Where are they concentrated? What trend to they fit into?

Also, hyz's discussion of Sarah brings up another thought/question. I've known tons of Sarahs in my lifetime, none of whom were Sally or Sadie; that said, to me the name never seemed tiresome. At least with it girls could choose sides -- Sara v. Sarah -- so there was more spice to it. (On the other hand, boys named Michael or David or Daniel almost always had to be called by their last names alone.)

I suppose my name will be like that when the turn-of-the-century babies start hitting adolescence, unsurprising but not dull. Or... here is another possibility altogether... does Hannah seem trendy? Similarly, does Emily? Will a baby named Emily in 2020 seem like a throwback child? And why is Emily popular?

Oh, and I love the name Jane.

sadhbh --
I think Mary Sadira is very pretty. From my own experience I'd say it might be easier to get people to use a double name in some parts of the country than others (it isn't that weird down South where I am). Mainly you have to just keep telling people, and so will she, all her life. I usually let it slide if it's people I'm not going to be around long-term, but that's a little annoying because my first name by itself is Not My Name. Still, being called half of a double name is an honest mistake (who would know?), so it's not as bad as having a longer name chopped against your will, which seems presumptuous. And a double name is a good way to weed out telemarketers.

As for the boy's name -- the Redneck Rule I heard somewhere is that a boy's double name is redneck if both names are nicknames (Joe Don, Jim Bob); so you are in the clear with John Walter and John Vincent.

I've posted more than my share tonight, but I've been wondering about Bellamy also!
I can't remember where I ran into it, but it seems like it would be the perfect solution for parents wanting something less common than Isabelle (which is uber popular out here) that would lend itself to Belle or Bella.
Maybe it's just yet to be discovered!

Hannah does remind me of Emily in that it seems to be an enduring trend-if that isn't too much of an oxymoron.
Most of the Hannahs I know are in their teens, but I also know twenty-something Hannahs and little ones, too.
In my older son's preschool class there is a little girl named Hannah, and another child has a mom named Hannah.

The puzzle to me is trying to define the difference between Emily and Emma.
I seem to run into scads of little Emmas but relatively few Emilys, even though both are near the top of the charts.

I adore John Walter.
Mary Sadira is a lovely blend of the familiar and the exotic. I've always liked double fns, but they're quite unusual here.