The Baby Name Wizard

Those Myspace lists have got me wondering something. I would never use a creatively spelled name, but I'm in my mid-30s. It makes me wonder if the creative spelling trend is more generational than anything. Around here, most women pretty have graduate/professional degrees and don't get around to having kids until their mid-30s. So their "trends" may actually be 10 years out of date. The interesting thing will be to see whether once today's professional women start having their babies 10 years from now they use creative spellings. Maybe creative spellings just make sense to the internet generation -- who, after all, have grown up texting each other with abbreviated English. So maybe our dislike of creative spelling means we are just showing our age, sort of how our mothers hate the trendy old fashioned names now?

Those Myspace lists have got me wondering something. I would never use a creatively spelled name, but I'm in my mid-30s. It makes me wonder if the creative spelling trend is more generational than anything. Around here, most women pretty have graduate/professional degrees and don't get around to having kids until their mid-30s. So their "trends" may actually be 10 years out of date. The interesting thing will be to see whether once today's professional women start having their babies 10 years from now they use creative spellings. Maybe creative spellings just make sense to the internet generation -- who, after all, have grown up texting each other with abbreviated English. So maybe our dislike of creative spelling means we are just showing our age, sort of how our mothers hate the trendy old fashioned names now?

I know of a newborn named Carina

The Corinna I know is with a short i. Cuh - RINN - uh I think that's a fairly accurate phonetic spelling.

Cathie- I do tend to agree with you that the creative spellings seem to appeal more to the very young, but I think that has been happening for sometime. I am related to a young woman who had her first child 18 years ago at age 18. She named her Krystal- and now, ruefully explains,"Well,after all, I was eighteen!". I must gently take exception to your assertion that the present grandmother generation has a dislike for the current vogue of old-fashioned names. I am a new grandmother and I love the old names-as long as they are not in the top 25. I am tired of Emma, but welcome Millicent, Dorothea, Clementine, Pearl and their antique, tea-sipping friends. I went to school with Susan, Nancy and Linda...and I am not ready for that revival.

Cathie--I'm a teenager and I hate creative spellings...most ppl my age just think they're slightly annoying but whatever. I don't know any other kid who likes them...although most think matching names for twins are cute--not Tyler and Taylor, maybe, but Tyler and Trenton types.

Newborn I know of: Grace Celia-Marie Spence. (Heaven help her if she has a lisp.) Local girl maybe age 4: Mia-Jolie. How dated that'll be by the time she's 20...ah well. It does sound kind of nice, thinking semiobjectively.

Personally I don't like caps in the middle of names...is it just me or do they bring us back to the class discussion? No middle caps seems to be richer to me somehow...

Any thoughts on Phaethusa (Fay-uh-*thu*sa)(the e should have...oh, what's it called...those two dots...over it)? Name of a nymph in the Odyssey...nn Phae (Fay) or Phae (Fay-uh) would be sweet....

Thanks for the lists, everyone! You are such awesomely dedicated onomatophiles. ;)

And I apologize for the annoying lack of focus in this post.

I would pronounced Corinne Cor-EEN somply because I see it is French. The double consonant doesn't change the pronunciation in this case.But I teach an American Corinne and call her Cor-INN because that's how she pronounces it.

By the way, she has four brothers named Cameron, Xander Thomas, Richard Quinten (known as Quinten) and one more... I'll have to find out what his name is. Lovely kids.

When I was a teenager I was in love with the name Phaedra. Thought it was the most beautiful name in the world. Over it now of course.

I also have diaries where I named my future children at 14 or 15, and there were creative spellings everywhere. I think for sure it appeals to the younger generation.

Did anybody else also mess with the spelling of their own name? I remember in 7th or 8th grade all the girls decided to rename themselves--Andrea became Andee and Nicole renamed herself Nikkole. It was just a stage.

Hi Laney - Yes, I did that. Not very creative: I just added a z to make Lizz. I later discovered a character in a cartoon (Dick Tracy?) spelt that way, so I reverted to the standard spelling.

Laney--Oh, my goodness, you've jarred an embarrassing memory. My younger sister was one of three Debra/Debbies in her class, so I had her elide her first and middle names into Debrann. The teacher told her she could not be a cereal, she had to be a girl. Also,when I was in 5th grade, I changed the spelling of my middle name from Sue to Sioux-that lasted two weeks, I think. If only I'd used my full middle name instead-Suzanne. At the time, I thought that was too fancy.

Thanks everyone for your past comments on the name Petra. For a boy we are thinking Malachi Trenton (my hubby's name is Trent) and nn Chi (pronounced ky) to go with our other son, Kane Matthew. Any thoughts on Malachi?

We live in Nebraska and there are NOT alot of names that differ from the norm out here. (So many emmas, sam, jack, etc.) I've really enjoyed everyone's opinions on this board!

Ha, the old alternate spelling debate. Remember in Louisa May Alcott's "An Old-Fashioned Girl"? Boston "sophisticate" Fanny Shaw wanted her country friend Polly Milton to revert to her former name Mary ("Polly", of course, being a very old nickname for Mary) but to Frenchify it by spelling it "Marie". It was the height of style in the mid-to-late 19th century to substitute "ie" for the serviceable and honorable old "y". Polly sturdily resists this, and makes fun of all the "Fannies" and "Sallies" that were proliferating at the time...

hyz, I believe "Rosalind" has almost exclusively been pronounced with the Roz sound, Jimmy Carter's wife notwithstanding. (She does give the Rose sound, but spells it less traditionally-- Rosalyn, I think)

Some people undoubtedly would shorten it to "Roz", but the "Rose" nickname is still very viable. You'd just have to expend a bit more energy promulgating it!

"Roz" is spunkily reminiscent of Forties screwball comedy actress Rosalind "Roz" Russell...

tiffany-- Love Malachi. The lesser-used Biblical names are a real gold mine. Think your proposed nickname fits perfectly with what I perceive to be your jaunty, slightly off-beat naming style (Kane, Petra). What an interesting set of siblings!

I was a teen mom when I had my son. Most girls around my age at the time liked creative spellings and odd names, but now that we are older, the ones who are having kids are using normal names. Granted if I hear Aiden one more time, I might scream, but its better than some of the stuff they came up with in high school. I even prefered strange names before it actually came time to name a real person. I think most of them will have grown out of this stage before they start having kids, if thats any condolence. I doubt we'll see to much more in the way of creative spellings in 10-15 years. Once these kids get more real workd experience, they will give up the more terrible names. I think anyways.

I thought through my sons name and I didn't want people to look at him and forever guess that he had a teen mom. I named him Matthew Aaron. The number one name among teen moms that I knew was Stormy and Angel, both used for either gender, so both of those names are stamped as children of teen moms in my head.

Laney(cont.)---And,at age 14, when our parents were away for the weekend,I told my sister, Wendy, that her real name was Gwendolyn(not true),so that now she could be called Gwen.She believed me for 2 days. By that time, I had tired of cute names and thought Gwen was cooler.

I agree that teens tend to want to do something that is really "different" or "cool" or "hip" or whatever. When I was a teenager, I had a mix of good and bad naming ideas. One was a very hippie-ish nature theme--top contenders were Willow, Meadow, Prairie, River, Rain, Sky, Winter, Autumn, Spring, Summer. I still like all of those in a way, but now that I'm a bit older and we're talking about very real potential kids, I don't want them to be stamped forever with a name that screams "my parents think they're cool and want to be different different different." Also, some are too popular now. I want kids to be able to stand out if they want, or blend in if that suits them--I like a name on the outer edge of "normal".

Some of my other themes: mythical (Phoenix, Zephyr, Griffin, Phaedra...), colors (Blue, Green, Indigo, Ruby, Cerulean, Sienna, Sorrel...); horsey (Devon, Clyde, Cavesson, Philippa). Oh, the lists I wrote. Now I think I'll save them for pets.

I'm still tempted by Winter, though.... ;)

Tiffany--I like Malachi, too--very ancient, but spunky. I've loved it more since I listened to Frank McCourt read Angela's Ashes (book on tape). They pronounce it MAL-a-kee, and it's especially charming with the Irish accent.

Eo--thanks for the "roz" comments. One thing I'm shying away from slightly is any name that has alternate accepted pronunciations, or is just hard to pronounce in general. If I used Rosalind, I'd want to take a poll and probably go by whatever the most automatic pronunciation is--I wouldn't want a kid going through life "correcting" everyone because I picked an unusual pronunciation. I have that trouble a bit with my name, and I find the "wrong" (other accepted) pronunciation very grating when it's applied to me. Luckily, I go by the more usual pronunciation, so it doesn't happen all that often.

Name of the day: my DH just pointed me to this:
http://www.deadlybloodyserious.com/2007/09/admiral-sir-reginald-aylmer-ranfurly-plunkett-ernle-erle-drax/

valerie, thanks for reminding me of a question i've been meaning to ask for a while! i'm debating whether or not to give my children a hyphenated last name. on the one hand, i don't want my last name to die, and i don't like the patriarchal idea behind the standard take-the-father's-last-name deal. my husband, while supportive of a hyphenated name, doesn't feel comfortable letting his last name die either. he doesn't really have a preference one way or the other on the hyphenate or his ln. it seemed like a great solution at first, but i've been wondering, what happens when the kids grow up and are trying to decide if they want to keep their last names and/or give them to their kids? clearly, a 4-way hyphenate name is a bit absurd (or a 3-). where does the name go beyond that first generation? i'm also hesitant about my kids' names becoming clunky. i love names that flow well, and the truth is, their names would just *sound* better with my husband's ln than mine or the hyphenate. i'm really not sure what to do!

Anne: I am so anti-hyphen last name! I think it looks terrible. I don't want to offend anyone, but I just absolutely hate it. To me, it ruins the entire name when I see it written. I don't think there is an easy solution, other than using your last name as a middle name. And if you like the way your husband's name sounds better than yours or the hyphen, use that. I totally get what you're saying about the patriarchal standard (and it annoys me, too), but don't use your kid's name to prove that point.

My dh and I have different last names. My kids have his last name. Ultimately, I decided that it was easier to go with tradition. Hyphenated names are fine until (as anne pointed out) the next generation where you might have to combine lots of hyphens.

However, if simply going with a patriarchal tradition bothers you, then hyphenate. It might be a pain in the future, but just because something could become an annoyance later may not be reason enough to avoid it.

It is very popular here in the south to turn mothers' maiden names into first names or middle names.

Anne, I've had the same concerns as you. I don't think there's one great answer, but there are some pretty good ones. First, I don't mind hyphenated names as long as they sound ok together, but it doesn't solve much in the next generation as you say. The thing we like best is actually giving the kids different last names. We've known couples who gave all male children the father's name, and all female children the mother's name--I think this is actually a very nice, equal new tradition to start. We've also known couples who alternated, so the first kid got his name, second kid got her name, etc. That way, nobody is left out even if you have 10 girls. DH and I will probably do one of these two things.

By the way, my mom and dad each kept their names, and I'm an only child and got my father's name--it always worked out fine for us.

Tiffany: I like Chi, but I would consider that people might constantly mispronounce it "Chee."

Re: hyphenated last names. I'm not a big fan of them myself, though I understand the mother's desire to give her last name to a child, too. However, many of the hyphenated names I know are long and clunky.

I prefer the maiden name as mn or fn solution, myself. In our case, since our children are getting my husband's last name, the fn or mn will be from my side.

Regarding adults with hyphenated last names, a guy I know has one and has no desire to give it to his kids. So he's not sure what his kids' last name should be. He and his wife are considering creating a new last name which is a blend of their names. As a genealogy buff, I am not enthused.

Giving children different last names sounds awkward to me. I would assume, for example, that children bearing the mom's name were born before the current marriage (previous marriage/single mom), were half- or step-siblings of those with the father's name, and were unrelated to the current father, because that is the pattern in many blended families. jmo, though.

AF, I get your point, but for me, this is one situation where I wouldn't mind kids having to give a little explanation occasionally--I sort of view it as public education. I recently got married, and I'm surprised by how often I get asked in this day and age whether I changed my name. It gives me a chance to say, "no, my husband and I both kept our names." If it's a peer, I might jokingly say, "no, and you might be interested to know that my husband decided not to change his, either." We only make those assumptions because of how things have been historically done. If people have a philosphical problem with WHY they were done that way, and start to do things differently, those assumptions will weaken over time--smart people will learn it's best not to assume.

In any event, I wouldn't be bothered by someone wrongly assuming we were a blended family--no harm in that. And in our case, our kids will look unique enough (DH is Korean, I'm white), that people would probably assume we're all together anyway.

cont'd

oh, and another thing--to me, using the mother's name as a mn or fn doesn't much help the problem, any more than hyphenating does. If one is concerned with passing on your name for generations, I think giving it as a ln is most likely to accomplish that goal. If that's not your concern, then I suppose that wouldn't deter you, but it doesn't seem to strongly address Anne's desires.

I (greatly) dislike two first names combined into one - AmyNicole. My vote is for separating them into two distinct names (with a space between them!)

The only Corinna I know pronounces it CorEEna. I work with a girl whose name is spelled Carine, which is pronounced Cuh-RIN. I don't know if that's a creative spelling, or if it's a name of it's own - does anyone know? My personal opinion is that it makes the name look "softer."

My little niece (age 2) is one of the female Tristans (except hers is with an -en). Yep, her parents know it's a boy's name! I need to get the full story of the reasoning behind that name... despite the gender oddity, it's still cute on her. :)

As an aside, one thing that frustrates me is that a woman's name is usually her father's. If she passes it on, daughters may/may not keep the name, and sons pass on the name of the maternal grandfather instead of their father. It's a twist on the patrilineal naming system that (alas!) doesn't really produce a matrilineal name.

*Dreaming here* It might be neat to have a double naming system: a name passed down from father to all children and kept by sons upon marriage, AND a name passed down from mother to all children and kept by daughters upon marriage. Wives would take their husbands' paternal name (current system), and husbands would take their wives' maternal name. This would be totally equal, and it would allow both mothers and fathers to pass a permanent name to their kids.

This wouldn't be perfect, of course, and names would still be lost (ex: if a woman had only sons her name would be lost, just as a man's name is traditionally lost if he has only daughters) but I enjoy toying with the idea.

continued...

One last note: I'm not criticizing anyone for keeping their maiden name! I strongly considered it myself and know many people who kept theirs.

I just get frustrated with the patrilineal system sometimes, but also with the awkwardness of some of the solutions.

AF--that sounds like a nice system--you could always try to start a trend! :o) But then wouldn't ALL kids have the double last name that you don't like?

I share your frustration (even if I passed on my mother's name, that would still be *her* father's, and my grandmother's name was *her* father's... bah!), and for that reason my husband and I also talked about creating a combination name, to start a new line/tradition. We came up with some pretty good ones, but ultimately we would both be sad to lose the real history behind ours. It was for this same reason that some 70s feminists started naming their kids (and renaming themselves) things like "Susansdaughter". Just as good as Jackson or Anderson, right? ;)

Anyway, that's why I like the idea of giving all girls mom's name, and boys dad's. It's all even/equal on the large scale, and it would create new matrilineal lines.

Danielle,

I knew a Corrine--she's very old school British horse people, and probably about 70 by now. Pronounced koh-RIN. Classy. I would say Corinna with a short i. I would think Carine was kah-REEN, like Carina, meaning "dear" in romance languages.

Re: Tristan/Tristen. I'd like to hear what their story was. I know boys' names get coopted all the time for girls, which I don't really care for. I don't mind androgyny in the least, I just dislike rewriting history. It works sometimes, though--I knew a sib set as a kid, Shane, Casey, and Ryan--all girls. My mom always felt bad for them, and said their parents must've wanted boys, but I thought those names were all legitimately androgynous enough to be just a bit edgy on the sisters, which fit them.

Hyz, you hit the nail on the head for me, describing parents who name their kids not for the sake of the kids, but because they (the parents) want to be considered supercool and totally different.

That is exactly my problem with some of the very old-fashioned names - I don't think older parents are necessarily immune to the Iwannabecool! phenomenon, they're just operating under a different definition of the word cool.

Maybe just as some younger moms want to be seen as free spirited rebels who respect no spelling rule, some older moms (perhaps) are more conservative and upper middle class while still hoping to remain quirky and cutting edge and therefore pick their kids' names to cultivate a certain (if slightly contradictory) image??

It just seems to me that some people are just going ridiculously far afield for their kids' names because they're trying to be ubertrendy (Murgatroyd), and then they wrap themselves in the excuse that it's an older name to justify it.

Ooooh, Murgatroyd, I love it! lol.

Yeah, I think that's right. I mean, I think it's fine to go for cute and quirky because you want your kid to be cute and quirky, but I just wouldn't want to overdo it. "Overdo" will probably mean something different to everyone, and that's fine--I just personally don't want anything that like, uh, totally smacks of effort. :o) (Simpsons quote...) Maybe some people way more funky than me can get away with Murgatroyd and Blue and Moon Unit, but I think for me it would look like I was trying too hard. It gets to the question of why and how we name in the first place. We're not really naming for the kid--we don't know what their preference would be. If we're not going with some fixed tradition, then it's really about (I think) expressing ourselves and expressing hope for the kids' future. We name them what we want them to be. Some want their kids to be way funky. I'm going for sweet, smart, cute, thoughtful, strong, moral, outdoorsy... How else do you choose?

I think we have to make our best guess about what our child is going to be like, and name accordingly. Taking into account our cultural heritage, religious background, the area of the country in which we live, the way it sounds with our last name, and an honest appraisal of what our child's strengths and limitations might be.

If you're expecting a kid that's likely to fall somewhere on the geek continuum, (like mine) I just don't know if it's fair to the child to get too experimental in the naming department. If you know your kid is going to be gorgeous, talented, and rich, maybe that's when you go for Moon Unit. If you're expecting a little skater with a lot of tats and piercings, Murgatroyd might work.

The inherent risk lies in having a kid that rebels against the imagery of your expectations as reflected in the name you chose for them. That's kind of why I feel like, a nice basic name, you never go wrong. You don't get Grace Chastity sneaking out to get her eyebrow pierced.

Continued...

Not that Madison won't get her eyebrow pierced, of course, or that Grace Chastity will. Grace Chastity just seems a lot for a girl to live up to.
(I wasn't graceful or particularly chaste when I was a kid...)

The voice of mom-ly experience speaking, you're not gonna get the child you hope you're gonna get. Naming kids for what we want them to be has the potential to be extremely, extremely dangerous for parents and children alike. You will end up disappointed, and they will end up neurotic and hating your guts.

Might it not be better to pick somewhat of a generic name (there are tens of thousands of nice ones available) and let your child become who and what they choose, rather than naming them for what we hope they'll be?

I'm envisioning little Peyton Manning Jones who can't hit the side of a barn with his football, or Einstein Johnson who really prefers drawing and video games to his dad's physics notebooks.

I went to high school with a girl named Cinnamon & she had red hair and freckles. It just seemed to fit!

re: MySpace names: danah boyd has some speculative work on social class and MySpace vs. Facebook: http://www.danah.org/papers/essays/ClassDivisions.html

tiffany: i personally am not a fan of malachi. it sounds like a villain in a kids' show to me. but you know, just my own taste. i do like chi and kane. i met a baby named kai the other day. i know this is a hawaiian name, but i think this one was the european kai. (i forget what culture; we had this discussion before.) i guess kai and kane would be kind of matchy though.

re: Roz: reminds me of the character on Frasier. definitely spunky.

re: hyphenated last name: my husband and i have discussed this quite a bit. i kept my last name and he wants to hyphenate, partly because it shows our values and politics. we recognize that our children will have to figure out what they do when they get married, but we figure that we are doing the best with our choices and we will encourage them to make the best choice available to them--and try not to pressure them to do something that's in following with what we chose.

Last names: The thought my husband and I have had was mentioned upthread--for the first one, a girl would get my last name and a boy would get his. After that I'm not sure if we'd continue on a gendered basis or make it 50/50 (if there even is an "after that", that is!). I grew up in a blended family, so I'm used to there being a mixture of last names in the house.

We have a friend whose last name is a combination of his parent's last names--this isn't it, but it'd be like Smith and Jones=Smones. I love the idea, but it turns our combined last names into "Porker". :)

What professionals are naming their kids: The baby boom hasn't quite happened among my friends yet, but the names so far (people with graduate degrees in the sciences or other nerdy areas, currently living in the midwest): Aiden, Avery, Samuel (Sam), and Ezra. All boys.

Re: Murgatroyd, Blue, Moon Unit: I had to laugh because Blue is one of my husband's favorite names, and I do think of it as unusual but not remotely at the level of the others...

..(contd.) and there are some other names we both like a lot that are very unusual, though very recognizable and easy to spell/pronounce (as in, they're reasonably common nouns, but rare as names).

It seems that in the comment section here, there are some people who hated that they were one of 5 people with their name in their class, while other people hated never being able to find a personalized thingy with their name on it. At the same time, there are people who revel in being unusual, or are grateful that they can blend in with the pack. That response is pretty much impossible to predict, for a parent. I don't think most people are trying to "saddle" their children with a name that will scar them for life--they just think of something they like, that they'll enjoy saying for the rest of their life, that seems like the right name for someone with their combined genetic makeup. Everyone's just doing their best, right?

TJ: I know a family who combined names too, and like you, can't use it because we get Cooksaka which sounds too much like a profane insult. Good story to tell people though.

I know an Elijah Blue, who is college-age now I think. I think Blue is definitely good for a middle name, if a little questionable for a first name.

A quick note about what the educated classes in Scotland are up to at the mo (I think this is the same for Wales and Ireland too). Patriotic names are very 'in'. That is, rich Scottish parents like people to know they're Scottish. Names like Murray, Arran (spelled like the island), Rory, Cormac, Isla, Iona and Skye are all very hip at present, but mainly among the middle classes.

Robyn, that's hilarious!

kristin dawn--I agree that Peyton Manning would be a bit much to saddle a kid with, so that's not what I meant. Our top b/g choices right now are Rowan and Ivy--maybe that gives you an idea of what I mean. Different, but they *are* actual historical names that are easy to spell and pronounce, both nature names, and (in my mind) both have the potential to be smart, thoughtful, spunky, cool, or quiet names, depending on the personality of the kids. I wouldn't just want to pick a "generic" name for kids, or something that just "sounds nice" without any focus on the meaning behind it--I think names are too important for that.

TJ--I like Blue, too. I actually know a little girl named Blue, and she's adorable and very spunky. Her parents are cute anarchist punks who run the local hip coffee shop. They get away with it, but I think it'd be too much coming from DH and I, who don't have such an edgy image.

Also, 3 more very upper crust toddler/baby names from the Mid-Atlantic:
David
Ryan
Frank III ("Trip")

I am not sure if anyone will read this since Laura has posted a new blog - but I am only ok with hyphenated names when it is a super common new name or when it is a second marriage after a long first marriage. For example my mother is a Bellman-Jones. She was married right out of HS and started a career right away too. She didn't want to remove the Bellman from the first marriage because that is my name and also because of her career. ALSO because my stepdad's LN is JONES! Boring and Common!

Secondly I know a Korryn. That is definately a Kre8tive spelling but it is pronounced Kah-renn. She will be 7 this month.

I definitely understand what you are saying about hyphens being good for common lns. I have a similar view: I think they are also good when they show different aspects of your (or the child's) heritage.

Want a twist on the question of what to do when you marry - keep your name or take your spouse's/husband's?

Two couples I know did this: the husband and wife both changed their names legally.

For example (not their real names!): Jane Smith marries John Doe. Jane changes her legal name to Jane Smith Doe. The twist is that John changes *his* legal name to John Smith Doe.

One couple also gave their children the double last names (not hyphenated) so their kids have four names (Joe Bob Smith Doe).

All four of my friends use their two last names professionally, which I think is very cool. That way, the woman's "maiden" (don't you love that term?) name carries on in a very public way.

Granted, these couples are fairly progressive in their social and political views, so this "egalitarian" way of naming isn't really all that radical to them (but I think their families were a little wary at first.)

My younger sister is using her maiden and married name professionally, too, so times are changing!

A quick comment on the Emma/Emily trend. I was born in 1976 and at six/seven years of age I loved these names so much that I named my ragdoll Emily-Emma - perhaps there was a TV show that was on around that time that influenced me and other women from my generation who are now all in their child bearing years?

To the person up there who was discussing matrilineal names on the Scandinavian template, I'm in. I now really want to give my kids the last name Katherineson and Katherinesdottir. It sounds good to my ear, and will totally piss my inlaws off. Maybe I should start campaigning at my dh now or sneak them in as second middle names :)

As for academic names, I do use my dh's name as my middle name for publishing purposes, not only because I kept my ln, but because my middle name sounds more like something you'd name a poodle.

Ok...here's a really "Original" name. At my previous place of employment a female co-worker had a name that has to be RARE. The name...Debris. The dictionary defines debris as:
*The remains of something broken down or destroyed. Although the sound of the name isn't bad at all, I believe I'd check definitions prior to selecting such a name. (No offence intended) Are there any Debris out there?