The One-Hit Wonder Timeline
In this final installment of "one-hit wonder names" (see parts, 1, 2 and 3) we take a names-eye-view tour through history.
Baby names act as a cultural mirror, reflecting the mood and obsessions of every age. Sometimes it's a whole style, like the girls given boyish names (Frankie, Tommie) in the 1930s. Sometimes it's personality driven, like the Shirley surge in that same decade. And sometimes a specific historical moment is memorialized in names. The one-hit wonder names are a treasure trove of these cultural moments. Some of the moments were momentous, others pop-culture trifles. A few were completely unknown to me until the names themselves led me to them, and a few frankly shocked me as name inspirations. Check them out yourself in this arbitrary, capricious One-Hit Timeline of History.
1895: Trilby
George du Maurier's novel Trilby, first published serially in 1894, was a popular sensation. Filled with romance, horror, plucky heroes and supernatural villainry, Trilby became one of the most popular books (and later plays) of its time. The novel's longest-lasting contribution to our language comes from its villain, the all-powerful Jewish hypnotist Svengali, but during the book's heyday the beautiful Irish heroine Trilby made her naming mark as well.
1898: Gladstone
William Ewart Gladstone was one of the leading political forces of 19th-century England, serving several terms as Prime Minister between 1868 and 1894. The "gladstone bag" and "gladstone carriage" took their names from him. Gladstone died in 1898.
1898: Schley
The 1898 Battle of Santiago de Cuba was the largest naval engagement of the Spanish-American War. The destruction of the Spanish fleet was a milestone in the decline of Spanish influence in the Americas. The United States squadron was commanded, somewhat controversially, by Rear Admiral Winfield Scott Schley.
1900: Goebel
William J. Goebel was a controversial figure in Kentucky politics. Goebel was a populist, a foe of big business and an advocate of civil rights, and the consummate practitioner of machine politics. In 1895 he killed political adversary John Sanford in a duel, but plead self-defense and was acquitted. In 1899 he won a disputed election to become governor of Kentucky. On January 30, 1900 Goebel was shot in the chest by an assassin; the next day he was sworn in as governor; two days later he was dead. He remains the only U.S. state governor to be assassinated in office.
1918: Foch
Ferdinand Foch was a distinguished general of the French Army and Marshal of France. In the Spring of 1918 he was named Supreme Commander of the Allied Forces, leading the international armies which turned back the last major German advance of WWI. Foch accepted Germany's surrender on November 11, 1918.
1954: Rahn
In 1954 the German soccer team was unseeded entering the World Cup tournament in Bern, Switzerland, the first World Cup they were permitted to compete in after World War II. In the finals against heavily favored Hungary, Germany trailed until Helmut Rahn scored both tying and winning goals. Rahn became a national sporting legend and the game came to be known as the "Miracle of Bern," a turning point in post-war German identity.
1964: Destry
The TV Western "Destry" which premiered in 1964 was a spinoff of the classic film Destry Rides Again. It didn't last a full season.
1972: Jabbar
In 1971 basketball great Lew Alcindor, who had led the Milwaukee Bucks and UCLA Bruins to championships, changed his name to the Arabic Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. Kareem debuted on the popular name charts in 1972 at #407 and has become an African-American standard. Jabbar was propelled to popularity the same year but quickly faded.
1977: Amin
In 1976 Ugandan president Idi Amin allowed a hijacked airplane originating from Israel to land at the Entebbe airport. The event turned international attention toward his violent regime which was blamed for hundreds of thousands of deaths. By 1977, Amin was a global larger-than-life villain. As other nations broke off diplomatic ties he bestowed extravagant titles on himself and attracted a swirl of rumors of personal atrocities.
1977: Kunta, Kinte
The 1977 miniseries "Roots," based on the novel by Alex Haley, was a cultural phenomen. An overwhelming popular and critical success, "Roots" turned a generation of Americans--especially African-Americans--toward the study of geneology and family history, and helped encourage a trend toward African-styled baby names. The lead character, Kunta Kinte, was a Mandinka boy in Gambia who was kidnapped by slave traders and taken to America. Both Kunta and Kinte made the 1977 name charts.
Comments
Hey, I know a Destry who would've been born somtime in the mid-late 60s! Neat! I'd never heard that name before, and didn't know where it came from. He named his son that, too, so "Destry" will live on for another generation.
I've known some Trilbys--that's not a bad name--but I can't believe some of these others were ever in the top 1000--Goebel? Schley? I wonder sometimes if these people were naming their 11th or 12th kid, and had run out of dear friends, family members, and public figures with pleasant names to use as tribute sources....
Goebel sounds much less appropriate as a given name today because many would immediately associate it with Goebbels, the name of one of Hitler's henchmen. But 1899 was way before that.
In the 19th century Americans were accustomed to turning surnames of any figure they admired into a given name for their children. It's not surprising Foch makes the list, because the surname of the American World War I general Pershing was a "three-year wonder", on the SSA list between 1917 and 1919.
Kizzy, the female name popularized by "Roots", was also on the SSA list for three years between 1977 and 1979.
Sure, of course there's the Third Reich association that wouldn't have soured Goebbel in the 1800s, but beyond that, it just sounds like a noise a turkey makes, not melodious in the least. Schley is no better. Foch at least sounds almost like Fox or Fawkes (the latter not being generally positive, but at least very familiar, and with some real notoriety and cache for revolutionary sorts).
Are you saying Amin was actually popular? Wild.
Whether or not something sounds "melodious" is a matter of taste. Goebel rhymes with "nobel". Schley is pronounced like "sly", and Sly has been well-used as a nickname in popular culture in recent times. Foch, on the other hand, reminds me immediately of the four letter word which Americans generally think is the worst one. So though I really don't care for Schley as a given name, I personally find it to be MUCH more appropriate in that role than Foch. :)
Hm, that might explain it. When I say it, Goebel does not rhyme with "noble"--it has the sort of Americanized relaxed umlaut sound for "oe"--more like Geh-ble or Guh-ble. Just like a turkey. ;)
Also, I was saying Schley like sleigh or slay with a few too many drinks. Rhyming with sly, it is a lot better.
And I agree--though I tried to defend Foch, it's no prize, either.
I can not imagine someone naming a baby Foch in today's world... the possible mispronunciation of it would doom the kid.
My Dad was the beneficiary of historical hero worship, but his name seized the popular imagination and became more than a one hit wonder. His parents were English-Welsh immigrants in North America sometime after the turn of the century (nineteenth/twentieth!) I'm sure he was named "Gordon" after General "Chinese" Gordon. I believe that's how the surname Gordon caught on as a first name...
Interestingly, the names in his lower middle class English family are replicated almost exactly in the "Thomas the Train" series-- "Gordon", "Percy", "Harold", etc. etc. My guess is those names were also at their height circa 1890's England? Needless to say, there was no "Sir Topham Hatt (sp?), though....
My brother (born 1978) was in elementary with twins named Kunta and Kinte. I wonder how many other twin sets there were with those names?
Let's see, "Meet the Parents", "Meet the Fockers", next up "Meet the Baby"... little Foch Focker!
Ah, Gladstone. Didn't he want to starve the Irish? Or was that a different one?
So, looks like boys get those one-hit-wonder historical names a whole lot more frequently than girls do... hmm! Probably for the best. I've heard that Florence as a first name was originally a tribute to Florence Nightingale (who was born in Florence and named for that city--her sister's first name Parthenope didn't quite catch on so much), but hardly a one-hit wonder, and anyway outside the historical scope of the US charts.
"Ah, Gladstone. Didn't he want to starve the Irish? Or was that a different one?"
Yes, that must have been a different one, because after a little Googling it seems you have that backwards. Gladstone was one of the first British politicians to favor home rule for Ireland.
http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/gladstone_and_ireland.htm
http://www.irelandseye.com/aarticles/history/events/dates/homerule.shtm
Thumbs down for Foch. I think Kunta is a bit too near another epithet for my liking also!
America just after the turn of the century was caught up in a craze for all things German. This is definitely reflected in the naming trends of that era. It's not entirely unlike how the culture of India has become 'hot' of late and recently Indian names (or Anglicized versions) have become popular for kids of many backgrounds.
What sounds melodious to one generation may sound terrible to the next, but that is at least partially due to subtle changes in pronunciation as our language transforms through the years.
Imagine the effect millions of German and Scandinavian immigrants and their children had on American English. Even in our own lifetime we've heard a drastic shift in pronunciation - consider the difference in accent between Jane Fonda and Scarlett Johansson.
Of course, some older names sound lovely with a modern pronunciation - possibly better. Could that account for the sudden popularity of names like Ava, which was never very popular, but has really seen an upswing lately?
It's my understanding that Idi Amin was something of a media darling when he first took power, as many Westerners were hoping for a peaceful transition away from colonialism to African self-rule. A lot of Westerners legitimately thought he was a good person and a fine leader, until the inner workings of his regime became known to the world at large. It doesn't surprise me that Amin became a popular name at some point, but the timing amazes me, I would have thought it would've been a year or two earlier, prior to the Entebbe incident. Strange.
Can anyone tell me where I can get reliable English naming statistics? Is there an equivalent of the US social security listings or something along those lines?... thanks!
The government in England & Wales only puts the top 100 names, not the top 1000 on the web. You can find the top 100 names for England & Wales for the last five years at:
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/specials/babiesnames_boys.asp
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/specials/babiesnames_girls.asp
Thanks for those lists.
I'm surprised that Jessica is so popular in the UK right now! It seems so dated to the 80s in the US. I know it's still in our top 100, but much farther down the list. Most of the other top ten names seem to parallel US trends pretty well, although Megan is much higher on the UK lists now, and Ava much lower. Jodie is also surprising to see in the top 100, as are Amber and Courtney. The most interesting thing about these lists, to me, are the names that I can't imagine being very popular in the US anytime soon: Poppy, Millie, and Harriet. I know they fit with a lot of our trends, and I know they are being used by a few. Millie seems the most likely, particularly as a nn. for -milla names, but I just can't really see any of them in our top 100 in the next few years. Poppy makes me think of a name that some children call their fathers or grandfathers. Not to mention poppyseed bagels and opioids.
p.s. I've been wondering for a while, how do you pronounce Niamh?
also, on the boys' lists:
I've never heard of Callum. What's the history of this name? Lewis, Alfie, Harvey, Archie, Freddie, Billy (as given, not nn. for William), and Louie (rather than Louis) seem the most British and least likely to be seen in the US. Also, don't know much about Declan... can someone fill me in on that one, as well?
You pronounce Niamh as "Neev" or "NEE-uv". Whether it comes out as one or two syllables seems to depend on the part of Ireland one's accent comes from.
In the UK, "Pop" and "Poppy" are not used as a form of address for fathers and grandfathers as much as they are in the USA. Also, in the UK, the pronunciation of the first syllable of Harry and Harriet is NOT the same as the word "hair", as it is in most of the USA, but instead uses the vowel sound found in the word "hat". That's part of the reason why Harry and Harriet sound better to people in England than they do to Americans.
Callum is a Scottish form of the Latin Columba, "dove", and became common in Scotland because of St. Columba, who converted the Scots to Christianity. Colm is a modern Irish form of the same name. Declan is also Irish, the name of a saint who founded a monastery at Ardmore in Ireland, and unlike Callum, it's being used regularly now in the USA. There were over 800 boys born in the USA in 2006 named Declan.
It's a really British trend right now to give boys traditional nickames as their first names Archie, Alfie, Freddie etc. Alfie is gorgeous but will date quite quickly I think.
Also Declan is pronounced DAY-clun, FWIW.
Great Britain started the trend for old-fashioned names like Amelia and Ruby in the 80's and 90's. It looks like the trend there is continuing the pattern of the early 20th century styles.
I wonder if we'll see Wanda, Betty, Beverly, Jerry, Jimmy and Larry as the "fresh new" names in the next decade...
I know two little Declans in NC and both are pronounced "Deck-lin". This may not be the correct Irish pronunciation, but it's what comes out here.
I quite like Harriet! It reminds me of Harriet Wheeler, the singer for the Sundays. I like Juliet, but Harriet has the same ending without the hyper-romantic references, so I'd probably go for Harriet if I were choosing between them.
Poppy is the first name of actress Poppy Montgomery on "Without a Trace"--she's Australian, but her familiarity might make it a little more accessible to Americans? She's named for the flower, as are her sisters Rosie, Daisy, Lily, and Marigold. (Her birth name? Poppy Petal Emma Elizabeth Deveraux Donahue. Okay then.)
But I agree, it would always be a hard sell in places with a significant Spanish-speaking population--"papÃ" is pronounced "poppy," and is a familiar form of "dad." (It's also something you call little boys and boyfriends, jokingly.)
Thanks for the input, Trilby Gobble, lol.
Anyway, some of those name would definitely not fly well nowadays. Foch and Kunta? I heard a nine-year old drop the f-bomb the other day!
About the British names, I've actually always loved the British name charts more than the US (though I'm an American). My name is very British, I've been told (Kinsey). Apparently my parents were going to go with either Kirsten or Kendell, so they compromised.
Oh, and isn't there a British television personality out there named Declan who goes by Dec? So I'm assuming he pronounces that 'Deck' and not 'Dayc'?
Also, Poppy is one of my all-time favorite names. I think it's a much better alternative for parents going for a floral theme than the same old Rose, Daisy, etc.
PS Alfie over here, though pretty popular in Britain, will probably only be related to Alfie, the movie. And Alfred will definitely not be soaring up the charts anytime soon.
And one last thing - what do people think of Poppy's last name, Montgomery, for a boy? Is it too pretentious? My cousin is thinking of naming her baby that, nicknamed Monty for short. Her other son is already named Keaton, nn Keat and their surname is something along the lines of David (that's her kind of humor - people always think its David Keaton and not Keaton David haha).
Personally, I think Montgomery is a bit pretentious, and it's really not my style, but I think he'd fit right in with his peers. I actually think the name has potential to become popular, but I can see it taking off more for girls than for boys... Can't you picture sisters named Madison, Mackenzie, and Montgomery? Anyway, I much prefer the crispness of Keaton, even though that's not my style either. Montgomery is a bit of a mouthful. I'm not a huge fan of Monty, but it does give Montgomery a much lighter option.
Anne,
I have to agree - some of the British lists confuse me as well! Especially the name Jessica. I have a friend whose mother had very late in life twins a few years back, and named one Jessica, which I figured must have been because her other children were born in the 80's. I know it's still around, but I haven't heard it on anyone younger than 18. But it seems to be very popular in the UK!
Is this an Emily/Emma phenomenon, where one hit at a certain point in the US, the other in the UK, then when they "tired," they switched?
I wonder what the other name would be, if so. Brits out there - are there any names that Americans heavily favor that seem hopelessly outdated to you?
Also (and sorry for double-posting), we're "infanticipating" over here, and I've always had William as a top contender for a boy in my mind. It's both my dad's and my mom's middle name (strange, I know), and I think it's so old-fashioned and lovely.
But...the addition of his father's last name to hypothetical-William creates what I'm thinking might be a problem. Or it could be a complete non-issue. You decide:
William + LastName = the name of the guy who was driving JFK when he was assassinated
It isn't a weird name. Nobody knows his name off the top of their head - even avid Zapruter-ers just call him "the driver." It's just that a Google of the name we want to give a son comes up with primarily interviews with this unfortunate man. No one's going to think my boy is this guy, obviously, but still.
I can't tell - does it pass the Google test?
I would love to know what keeps Jessica floating in the UK? And about the Emma/Emily phenominon comparison. (I cant spell that word right...)
Katie: Personally, I think if you like it, use it. Only the Very Rare "History Geeks" with a major in JFK will think of it. (that is not a slam to any buffs)
Kinsey sounds very Amercan to my British ears!
Declan -I've only heard it as Deck-lan in te UK, and yes, there is a very poular tv presenter called Dec.
Emma has to be the American equivalent of Jessica - can't imagine many baby Emmas here.
Just looked at the American tp tens for last year - Lindsay, Samantha, Andrew and Christopher all seem like 60s and 70s names to me.
I agree with you about Samantha, Keren. It seems very outdated to me and I can't believe that it's still a top ten name.
My daughter attended a birthday party yesterday. The girls (all five and six) were named:
Olivia
Olivia
Maggie
Maggie
Caroline
Ayana
Sarah
Jordyn
Ellery
Hannah
I love the names (my own daughter's is in there), but how boring! Only Ayana and Ellery spice up the list a little.
Well, I can't be the only person out there who wants to drum my fingers together and say "exxcelleent" when I hear the name Montgomery. There are a lot of us who grew up with The Simpsons - and it doesn't seem like the influence will be going away anytime soon. That said, I would love to name a son Homer!
I just looked at the UK lists. What surprises me is that neither Catherine nor Mary made the top 100 last year. Another name on the list that sounds dated to me is Amy. I know so many 80's Amys, it is just decade stamped to me.
Katie, I think that you are over thinking the google test.
First, William last-name-of-Kennedy's-driver is a common name. (I googled it from your info, and found it out).
Second, unless a person is a conspiracy theorist, they won't know it was Kennedy's driver. Especially if they are born in the year 2007.
Third, even if they did know, how many people will care.
According to "how many of me" there is almost 968 people in the United States with your proposed name. I doubt that many of them have had any problems with it because of the driver of Kennedy's car!
US top 100 names that sound dated to my British ears: Samantha, Natalie, Ashley, Hailey, Jennifer, Kimberley, Andrea (very dated! I'd imagine an Andrea to be in her forties by now), Stephanie, Michelle, Jenna. The boys' names are different though - they don't really seem dated at all. Funny how girls names are so much more subject to the whims of fashion.
Keren - Kinsey sounds American to me too. And I love Archie so much!
This site s good for the British top 300s in different years: http://www.babyplanners.co.uk/insidenamebrain.php
You might also be interested in the Scottish data, as the Scottish Registry Office runs a really excellent website. http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/statistics/
publications-and-data/popular-names/
the-most-popular-names-in-scotland-2006/index.html
You'll have to copy and paste I'm afraid!
Thanks, guys. I probably am overthinking the Google test. After all, a Google of my name reveals a type of millet, and not only has that not impeded my career or social life, but I don't really even know what millet is, other than some type of grain.
The advice is much appreciated! Do any of you have interesting Googled names?
Kimberly sounds extremely dated to me, too. I grew up with a lot of Kims, but haven't met one under the age of 25 in, well, 25 years! Where are all the baby Kims?
how-many-of-me may not be trustworthy...it told me there are 0 Bartholomews...I definitely spelled it right...weird.
I guess Phaethusa is too mythology, right? I really like it though (Fay-a-THOO-za).
AND THIS POST IS AWESOME! A sociological/onomatological paradise...thanks so much, Laura!
Harriett has been making a comeback as of late; "Hattie" is usually the nn of choice.
I'm hoping some of you can give me some feedback. I'm thinking about the name Daphne for my daughter but still having hesitations. A friend pointed out that it sounds a lot like both daft and daffy, neither of which are great things to call a child. I'd be especially unhappy if Daffy became a nn. What do you think? What are your impressions of the name in general?
For middle names, I was thinking:
Daphne Susannah
Daphne Rebecca
Daphne Cecelia
Daphne Marcela
Daphne Anne
Daphne Jane
Daphne Belinda
other middle names?
I'm also considering Delia, Greta, Lena, and Helena as first names. Thoughts?
I also really love the sounds of Ophelia and Penelope, but they're too dramatic for me. Any suggestions of names that have similar sounds?
I can't resist adding that Declan is also the real name of singer Elvis Costello (b. Declan MacManus).
As for Googling names, we decided on a name for our son, expected in December -- it's my husband's great-grandfather's name. And when I Google the full name, there's actually a page about the great-grandfather (he was one of the first settlers in West Palm Beach area of Florida). But if I take the first two names without the last name, I get a lot of pages about a contemporary author who died of a heroine overdose in 1999. But we didn't let that dissuade us from using it.
Oh, and on the googling issue... I think that unless the name is very rare, it's really not a big issue. With a fairly common name, there will always be other people with the same name, and no one will assume that you named your child after one of them. Plus, if you're pregnant with a child now and you're talking about an association with someone about whom an internet page is written, that person will probably be at least a generation older than your child (and in the case given above, more than that), so there should be no chance of actual confusion. Unless your search pulls up an infamous serial killer or someone currently very well known, I wouldn't worry about it. If your last name is Rice, it probably wouldn't be wise to name your daughter Condoleeza, but if your last name is Riis, I doubt many people would blink an eye if you named your son Jacob, especially given how popular the name Jacob is these days.
p.s. I know a woman named Janet Jackson and another woman named Julia Roberts. Both were named before the stars rose to fame. Aside from a few annoying jokes when people first meet them, it doesn't seem to be a really big deal to either one of them, but of course, it's nearly impossible to find any actual information about them on the internet. For me, that's a drawback, but it sounds like you're considering a common name with an obscure personality attached to it, which probably wouldn't make it too hard for your son to "compete" for the name.
Marta, You want to name her Daphne but think that Penelope is too drammatic?? I love how we all have different views on these kinds of things I actually laughed out loud - in the middle of the night pumping breadt milk after feeding my baby. I think Penelope is very cute. It is not so unheard of as to be strange.
Ok, honestly, I dont like Daphne. It sounds... nasal to my ears.
Penelope Jane?
Penelope Susanne/Suzanne?
::waves and hopes you find a name you! really like:: :)
Daphne - used to think of it as a complete old lady's name, but then a friend caled her daughter Daphne and now I think it's quite sweet. Big danger of ending up Daffy though. She has siblings Cicely and Charlie btw.
Don't think there's mch wrong with Ophelia, Penelope remnds me of enelope Pitstop too much.
Like Helena, Delia not Lena and hate Greta (sounds like cheese grater)
How about Hermione, Hero, Phoebe, Damaris, Cordelia, Sylvie?
I'm in Australia and know quite a few Declans. It's pronounced Deck-lin in most instances here.
With regard to the famous name thing, I've worked with several Michael Jacksons and Lisa Simpsons. You quickly get over the association once you know they person, and they are obvious name associations.
I love Ophelia, but am worried about all the possible teasing possibilities in the teenage years. Along the lines of 'Can I feel ya (insert body part here).'
Marta,
I've only known one Daphne (she'd be about 35 now), and she actually was a bit daffy, so there were some snide comments made behind her back. I like the name ok, but I like some of your other choices a lot better--Helena and Lena especially, and Delia's nice, but I like Cordelia better as a whole name. I also like Keren's suggestions of Damaris and Sylvie. I agree that Penelope's not too much, and she could always have nn Penny, which I think is cute.
Maybe Helena Jane? Helena Daphne? She could have nn. Lena, and you'd get to use both names at once. What about Damaris Anne, or Damaris Rebecca?
Katie -- on interesting Google names: if you Google my name, you get the name of the first African American slave to sue for her freedom. The only person who ever knew that pre-Google was a college professor who taught 19th century American literature and culture.
Marta -- Daphne Anne is way too many nasal "A's" in the standard U.S. accent (midwesterny). Daphne Rebecca sounds culturally "off" in some way I can't put my finger on (perhaps Greek/Hebrew, which is odd, because didn't those two cultures actually coexist in ancient times?). The others are pretty good. Though I will admit that Daphne, to me, is one of those names that looks better on paper than it sounds said aloud.
Though I am glad my daughter Caroline's name isn't as fuddy-duddy as it would have been when I was a child, I'm kind of sorry to see it nested in such a group of names I think of as over-the-top trendy-old-fashioned.
If you like the shape of Daphne but you're afraid of the "Daffy" nn, try Delphine ... very similar shapes and sounds, but the nickname options are maybe more palatable (Dell, Della, Fina, Elf?).
Love Damaris, Penelope, and Helen(a) very much--they're all family names for us, and we're not even Greek.
Penelope, to me, is much cuter and less "dramatic" (if I understand what you mean by that) than Daphne. I don't know why Penelope isn't more popular. It's got everything: it's old-fashioned but not fuddy-duddy, literary (The Odyssey) but not pretentious, and it has great nicknames: not only Penny but Nellie or Nell.
I don't think Daphne is dramatic at all, and I rather like it. I like all of the names you've chosen. I do like Ophelia too but think that one might be too dramatic. The one name I don't like is Damaris - to me it is just not pretty at all. Good luck-- I'm sure it will be beautiful!
name gurus:
not even close to on the topic of the article, but listen: 2nd son on the way, our last name is an english one in the mold of Cunningham/Wittington/Willingham etc., question is, is it off-sides to use the traditionally *irish* name Patrick with a english sounding last name? I know Patrick is a pretty americanized name by now, but I'm mildly concerned with mixing up british isles in the name. Further complication(?):the middle name will likely be 'blair' - wife's scottish family name. Thoughts??
Re Daphne: with my Southern accent it doesn't sound nasally at all (not much does). I like it quite a bit!
Don- What is your 1st son's name? Personally I think Patrick will be fine. Granted I am in the States and there are many Patricks here. Not so many that it is overly popular but plenty who clearly aren't Irish. :)
Also I love Padraig - I think that would be overkill with a very British last name :)
oh, I should mention that I'm in the usa, rather than britain. first son's name is henry, which we think goes nicley with patrick, so there's that.
don--if you're in the US, I think that would be fine--I can't speak for Britain. It especially makes sense if your son will also have some Irish heritage. I don't see it as two radically different cultures to put together, like Svetlana Pennington or Bjorn Worthington or something--it flows fine, and I would say is certainly common enough here not to raise any eyebrows.
Are you ready for all the Patrick Henry comments, though? :o)
Don, I don't think Patrick [Cunningham or something like it] is weird at all -- it flows rather nicely, and I've never understood all the fuss about mixed ethnicity names anyway. I can understand that if you live in a place where there is considerable racial/ethnic/religious/etc tension, you might not want to exacerbate that with child's name, but otherwise, as in your case, I don't think it's a big issue. And honestly, although Patrick O'Reilly sounds pretty Irish to me, I don't hear Patrick alone and think it's incredibly Irish-sounding. Besides, I know so many children of mixed ethnicity that a name like Sunitra Romano doesn't even phase me. I can understand it's not everyone's cup of tea to mix names of diff. ethnicities, but I don't think Patrick Worthington would even register to most people as a mixed ethnicity name. I know a Chinese-American man named Patrick (both of his parents are Chinese and his ln. is something along the lines of Wang), and I never even thought twice about his name until now.
Don- Sounds great- there are many, many English Patricks, so to my English ear it sounds fine. The three names have a nice flow to them as well.
marta --I know of a girl named Devney -- I think it's a last name turned first, but the second syllable sounds similar to Daphne. I really like it, also like Devin/Devon. There's an actress on Big Love named Daveigh, which is also cute.
Helena is nice -- I prefer it pronounced Hel-uh-nah, rhymes with Helen, as opposed to Hel-eee-nah, which is how one of my relatives pronounces it.
Re: Daphne Rebecca - the author Daphne Du Maurier wrote a book called Rebecca, so I associate those names together. I do like the combo, though.
I like Penelope a lot and don't think it's any more dramatic than Daphne. A friend's daughter is Grayson Penelope, named after her grandmother, Penny. I just love the name. They call her Gracie.
Marta, I love Daphne and think it's a great name that I think might be in store for a comeback in the next 20 years. I kind of feel the same way about Phoebe. It's got the literary thing going for it on 2 ends- Greek mythology and Daphne du Maurier. And it has a sort of early 20th century feel that I'm sort of partial to.
The only Daphne I know is early 30's and is an actress and to my knowledge no one has ever called her "Daffy." If you like it, go for it.
Marta: i'm not that big a fan of Daphne, but I also knew a Daphne who was kind of Daffy, so maybe that colors my opinion My favorite of the ones you listed is Greta -- I love that name!
I have a question about the name "Oscar" -- I think it is super cute, but I worry about the Oscar Meyer song -- is this the first thing that comes to mind? or is that too old a jingle at this point? also, would it sound bad with a two-syllable last name that ends in -er? for instance, oscar calder? oscar water? oscar baker?
Marta--
I think the first thing to come to mind w/ Oscar is Sesame Street's Oscar the Grouch!
That's what I was thinking too. Oscar sounds a bit grouchy to my ears.
I have a quick question for you. Is it okay to have a first name that ends with the same letter as the last name starts with? For instance, Silas Smith. Would the name just come out sounding like "Sila"? Our last name starts with an "M" and my favorite boy names end in "M". (Abrahm, Adam, William . . .) Would this be a disqualifier for you?
TM--I actually think you might be ok with the two Ms. It's funny, because I ruled out Silas because our last names start with S! But I think it would depend on the two names--if both are very clear and/or well-known, then I think it would be ok. Example--William Martin works, I think, because there aren't a lot of people named either Willia or Artin. It still *sounds* like William Martin. I think Adam would also work pretty well in general depending on the last name (there are Adas, but not many "Addas"), but Abrahm might be a bit trickier--Abra sounds like a plausible girl name.
I like Oscar, too, but I think there would be too many grouch jokes by people who think they're clever, which the kid would get sick of fast. "Hey, Oscar, looking a little grouchy today! Hah! Bet you never heard that one before!" :rolleyes: Maybe save it for a pet?
Actually, my dad's name was Oscar; even though he had the name long before the Muppet, he still had to put up w/ grouch remarks--mostly from little kids, who would ask things like, "Where's your garbage can?"
(And, no, he was not a grouch!)
Re the two Ms: I wouldn't do it, but I think hyz has it right--if the names are clear and well-known, it's probably not a problem. I have a similar situation--if I introduce myself by saying, "Hi, I'm Arlene," the listener can't tell if my name is Arlene or Marlene. If my name were, say, Amanda, this problem wouldn't arise. So I guess it depends on the specific names.
Off topic question: Where are all the baby Michaels?
The preschoolers I know are all Noahs, Dillons, and Landons, but Michael is (according to the numbers) much more popular! The only thing I've thought of is that the Michaels are named after fathers and grandfathers, and are called by their middle names.
Thanks for the feedback. I can't decide if I'm okay with it or not yet. The name nerd in me says "no way." I just wish it didn't rule out so many of my favorite boy names!
Mom of AA,
I'm not sure what circle you're in, but I do still see lots of the very traditional male names along with all the Noahs and Maxes. David, Jonathan, John, Matthew, Michael, Andrew, Adam, Mark, are all still pretty common among people I know--Mid-Atlantic, Midwest, Northeast, middle or upper class, many religious (Catholic, Jewish, Protestant), and many traditionalists naming after relatives. There may be some nicknames (I posted at the end of the last thread that I just heard of a *very* well to do WASPy little boy named Frank III, nn "Trip"--his brother is Ryan, cousin is David), but most of the ones I know just go by the plain old name.
Arlene--I also have that problem with my name! It's not quite as likely to be mistaken as yours, but I do have to be careful to enunciate so it doesn't mush together.
I disqualified names that ended with the same letter as our last name (one was Beck; glad I stayed away from that one!).
I like Oscar, but it might not work with your last name. Similar to my first comment, we crossed off names that ended in -en/-on because our last name ends in -on. For example, Hayden Christensen just sounds funny to me.
I don't know, maybe I have more 'rules' than most? (Certainly there are others on this site who have similar rules -- I can't speak for normal people!)
No no no on Oscar. The grouch connection is lethel!
I think the rules are generally good, but I think there can be case by case exceptions made, especially for a name you love love love. The two Ms isn't ideal, but I think it could work fine under certain circumstances.
And hey--I kind of like the en/on ending with some 2 syl fns, 3 syl lns. I never thought of it until now, but that can be kind of nice. How about Aidan Christiansen, or Hayden Sorenson? I think it flows without being too cute. Sounds like a news anchor, to me. It's a moot point with our names, but fun anyway....
I agree with Jill C. about naming your child something that has the same ending sound as your last name. My last name ends in -on, 3 syllables, and every syllable ends with "n" and has a completely different vowel sound in it, so I guess I'm a little hyper-sensitive to the whole first-name-ending-in-n thing. I've always thought it sounded a little...oh, repetitive, I guess (Anna Miranda, anyone?). But that just comes from my own personal experience with my difficult last name.
I agree with hyz about a name that ends in M with a last name that begins in M. It really does depend on the actual name. You wouldn't want poor little Liam or Willem to be mistaken for Leah and Willa all the time, but with the names you have picked out, it probably wouldn't be a problem.
Our difficulty in choosing a child's name is that our last name is a geographical feature (think Hill), so a lot of names are out- imagine Brooke Hill, Marina Hill, maybe even Violet... except I'm still stuck on Violet... I like flower names, so it's a drag. What do you think? Do you think I could still use a flower name?
I have been reading your comments for a little while now, and have found the practice quite addictive! What a fun board!
I have the same question as TM, really. My absolute favorite name for an eventual son (we currently have a 4-year-old daughter, Sophie) is Oliver. Our last name is two syllables, begins with R, and ends with L. It is not, but sounds similar to the word "regal". Is a little boy named Oliver "Regal" out of the question for the baby-naming mavens out there? I realize that the names run together a bit and aesthetically it's not perfect, but please be honest and tell me if it's bad enough to avoid the name. Thanks for your help!
I like the way all those names sound with a Hill-type name. I don't think people would even put it together that the first and last name both have to do with nature/geographical features. Go for it!
I think you're kind of in the same boat about Oliver "Regal." I think Oliver is well-known enough that no one is going to mistake the name for Olivah Regal. Sounds good with Sophie, too.
Oscar - have to put my vote in the "no" category. Just can't get past the grouch connection.
Daphne - I have to be honest, I just don't like the sound of the name. I think Penelope is a lot more mainstream, and would be cute with nn Penny. Daphne just makes me think Scooby Doo.
Sharon, I don't think Oliver "Regal" would be a problem at all. To me, with a name like Oliver, you know that there's a final letter "R" coming when you start O-l-i-v-e, and they don't run together at all. As for the last letter/first letter issue, it all depends on the names for me. I think I'll eventually have the same problem, having a last name that begins with an A - will that make all first names ending with an A off limits? (I hope not!)
Sharon: My personal opinion is that you should avoid flower and nature first names with a geographical last name. I DO notice names like Rowan Hill, Rose Park, Marina Brooks, and Lily Woods and think they sound like bad subdivision names.
Eve: I know a young Oskar and love his name. I do think it qualifies as a bold name choice, though, because of the current connotations.
Sharon: If your last name really sounds like "Regal," then it sounds like "Oliver Eagle!"
Trilby Gobble: Delphine is one of my favorites, and virtually never used in the U.S.! Nice suggestion.
Danielle: Two A's don't run together as much as two R's. Sophia Anderson sounds much better than Amber Robinson, in my opinion.
Oliver "Regal" sounds great to me. I don't see a problem.
I guess I am in the minority; I think Oscar is really cute and I can picture it on a cute little toddler as well as on a good-looking, fun-loving 25-year-old. (Actually, the more I think about it, the more I love it!)
MARTA, I love all of the names you listed, except Daphne. I especially love Penelope, nn Penny.
thanks for the feedback on oscar. for some reason, i'm not too disturbed by the oscar the grouch connotation (maybe because i like oscar the grouch) -- it's just the oscar meyer weiner thing. and i have some concern about the combo with a last name that ends in the -er sound.
my other choice is jonah, which sounds better with the last name, but i think is a little soft, and not as distinctive as oscar.
Hey, I was going to say Phoebe! :-) It's similar in feeling to Daphne for me, high-brow classical associations but a slightly goofy sound. But it doesn't have the "daffy/daft" connection, which is a plus.
I could never name a daughter Ophelia. It's got a single strong literary connection, which consists of being abused, going mad, and committing suicide.
re: Daphne: I like it. Of course, the only one I've known was a prof in her 40s (i guess) so i wouldn't know about the problems a child with this name might face.
i also am not a fan of descriptive names like Rosy Hill.
Oh, man, I absolutely adore the name Ophelia. Always have. I am expressly not allowed to use the name, however. "Do we want our little girl to drown herself as a teenager? I don't think so." Sigh.
Re: Oscar - I know a lot of very upscale types are using it again. I don't get what they think is going to happen when their little one turns on PBS for the first time and sees the Grouch.
People were asking where all the baby Michaels and Emilys are -- they're in New York City!
The city release the top baby names for 2006, and Michael was #1 for boys, Emily #2 for girls. The whole list is here:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/html/pr2007/pr085-07.shtml
I love the name Oscar! I think it has a lovely sound and style. I do worry about the connections to the grouch and the weiner. But I think it's one of those names that is going to come into fashion very soon with the same crowd that's currently using Julian, Oliver, etc, and once it becomes a bit more common, those associations will fade away from the name. Not that anyone won't *know* the associations, but once you know a few lovely children named Oscar, the grouch and the weiner won't be the first things you (or their peers) think of when you/they hear the name. Take the name Zoe - there's the muppet, after whom, I'm sure, many parents wouldn't want to name their child, but there are also many girls and women named Zoe out there who define the name as something else. I think the people using Oscar now are the more adventurous ones, but the trend will follow shortly.
I actually think Trilby has a chance of coming back. I've noticed that a lot of names ending in "by" are popular right now. Ashby, Colby, etc.
For those Ophelia lovers, how about Zephelia? I had a great aunt with the name. It's not my cup of tea, but I can see its charm.
Marta, another vote for Delphine! I love that name.
Two new girl babies in the neighborhood: Kensington and Muriel. (Not from the same family, obviously!) This goes to show that people from the same socio-economic level do not have uniform naming styles. At least not in California!
Eve, I don't see any real problem with Oscar. So there's a grouch character on Sesame Street named Oscar--I can't really see that as causing a crisis in a kid! "You're Oscar Smith, not Oscar the Grouch, so get in the tub, Mister." End of conversation. Same with Oscar Meyer weiners--they haven't even run that ad campaign in a long time, have they? Again, not a deal breaker in my mind. (Unless your last name really is Meyer or Weiner, I guess.)
In Los Angeles, there are loads of little Latino boys (and men, of course) named Oscar, Hector, Victor... so I think of it more in that context now.
I like the name Oscar. I know a young Oscar (about 6) and would you believe I never thought of the grouch connection till now? I actually thought of Oscar Peterson, the jazz pianist.
sorry to jump into this thread so late, but I've got to vote for Delphine! I knew a girl once named that, and her parents called her Delphi - a pet name, I guess - but we all knew her as Della. Absolutely adorable on a baby girl! I know a Daphne right now, and she's not exactly the nicest person around, so I kind of have bad feelings toward that name.
But I also love Ophelia, as well as Delia and Greta. Greta = Great, hm? Penelope is cute too though. Penelope Delphine?
Oh, and my brother is named Oscar! He goes by Oz though - and he actually likes all the wizard jokes that go with it.
Oscar is quite popular in the Uk,and I think t's a great name - although here we associate it with the writer Oscar Wilde. I've never heard of Oscar Meyer Weiner - off to google away my ignorance!
Marta: Ok, as the mom of a 2 year old Daphne I have to speak up! We love her name and it fits her perfectly. (mn Elizabeth, by the way). We haven't had any issues with things people call her (except mispronouncing her name). They are actually kinda cute: Daph, daffodil, and around home we've been calling her just Doo-Dah lately, but that's just because she's being a typical 2 yr old.
I love your name list as a whole, especially seeing my own up there. :) But I seriously need to focus on boy ideas now as we are 7 weeks til due and only a sketchy name list in the works. Panic is setting in!
Marta, I think Daphne is rather adorable, Phoebe is nice too but becoming very popular possibly due to to the character on friends...
Eve: We've actually had a rather lengthy discuss on the pro's and cons of Oscar before (although I'm not sure which previous post it was in but you might like to have a scroll through...)
From what I could gather last time and evidenced above - Americans seem to be put off by the dual references of Oscar Mayer and Oscar the Grouch but elsewhere as in the UK (where Oscar would once have been a very 'cool' choice) it is becoming a lot more mainstream.
Anne: Jessica sounds outdated to my ears and I'm English! I feel about Jessica very much like what some of you were saying about Emily in the States: Where are these Jessica's?? Emily, Olivia, Chloe and Ruby abound around here but not a Jessica in sight...
I just remembered that I know a toddler named Oscar, and he's adorable, but I don't think people make the grouch connection with him because he's Mexican and so the pronunciation is different (long O).
I like Delphine, too, or you could get a little more dramatic and go for Delphinia or Delphinium.
Re: geographical names--I think some sound bad, and some are ok. I personally think the example of Rowan Hill would be fine, because most people outside of this board don't seem to have any idea that Rowan is a tree. On the other hand, Rose and Violet, etc. seem very obvious to me--it could still be cute, but I think it does have the sound of a stage name, which could be either positive or negative for you. I might go with something more subtly botanical, like Rosalie or Olivia or Sylvia, but that's just a personal preference.
And yes, Oliver "Regal" does sound like Oliver Eagle. If your name were something common and clear like Randall, I think Oliver could work.
Muriel?? Oy.
I say oy to both Kensington and Muriel! Thank god they're not sisters... I know people have varied views on the "matching" sib set issue... but Kensington and Muriel really pushes the limit for me!
I think the real issue with Oscar isn't that he's the name of a Muppet or anything like that, it's that the name is affiliated with a general perception of rudeness and messiness - I believe Oscar the Grouch was named after Oscar Madison from The Odd Couple. People will make these subconscious references in the back of their mind when they hear the name, even if they've never heard of Oscar Madison, or the Grouch. The perception is out there floating around in the collective unconscious.
If you like another name, I would use that instead. If Jonah doesn't work for you, how about Jonas, Joss, or maybe even Austin - though many may think Austin might've outlived its time in the sun, I've seen the spelling Osten which seems fresher somehow.
Good luck!
On the topic of girls' names, for me, Delia is far and away the best choice. Daphne and Penelope are second - they are cute, but may be a little too cute, if you know what I'm saying.
Greta, Lena, and Helena are not at all good for me. Ophelia is pretty, but the connotations are just too much.
Delphine and Damaris, to borrow another poster's clever turn of phrase here, totally smack of effort. It's like you're trying way, way too hard.
I know a Michael Jackson and a Michael Jordan - both went by Mike, of course. I think the Michaels are still out there, but are using mns or nns to distinguish themselves.
I know this was mentioned a while back, but regarding Monty - Where I grew up, Monty was a white trash name big time, along with Travis, Wayne, and Ray. These were guys who were grown up but never seemed to go to work, hanging around smoking and drinking, working on dirt bikes, and chasing after the local troubled teen girls...
Aww, I don't think Damaris and Delphine smack too much of effort (I can't take credit for that--it's a Simpson's quote). They're both good, ancient names with both historical and biblical/religious connections. Also, I could imagine them as an adorable pair of siblings with Greek heritage. Personal opinion, of course--I'm just saying. I knew a girl with Greek parents named Athena--I thought that was a little bit much to pin on a person, but she was very feisty and no-nonsense and she pulled it off--she's probably in her late 20s now. The thing that might turn me off to Damaris is the derivation--heifer. It also supposedly means "gentle", though, and has positive biblical connections, so it might be ok.
The thing I don't like about all of the -elia names (Delia, Amelia, etc.) is that the eel-ya sound sounds mealy-mouthed to me. I also knew an Amelia who WAS very mealy-mouthed and mousy, so that makes it worse. Maybe I'm the only one who sees this....
Thanks for the feedback on mixing a geographical surname and nature-based first name. You mostly gave thumbs down, as I expected. I'm thinking something like Linnea might work, as it's not obviously a flower name... and I love it!
So Valerie, does this mean you're expecting? Or expecting to be expecting?
Thank you to all who gave feedback on Oliver. Reviews seem to be mixed depending on how "recognizable" my last name is. It's not a terribly common last name, but is familiar to many people from the stemware company. Since anyone that knows me would have already "found me out" from the description I gave of myself: my last name is Riedl (prounounced REE-dul). With that additional piece of info., would you do it if you really loved the name?
To add to the Oscar debate, I think that it's a very stylish name, and it's really unfortunate that the Grouch and hot dog connotations exist in this country. I think it would be a lot to saddle a kid with. A name that I think has the same sort of "European panache" as Oscar without all the negative associations is Bruno.
Sharon: I think you should go with Oliver if you like it. I love Oliver Riedl - I think it looks elegant and could be very mobile. I don't think the double "r" in this case is an issue. I have a very uncommon last name and often have to repeat or spell it when meeting people, and it's never bothered me or hampered me in any way. I don't see it as an issue if someone accidently thinks the last name is "Iedl" and must be corrected. I don't think that this would happen so often as to be problematic.
Best of luck!
Sharon, I say go for it if you love it. It flows nicely and sounds good, and chances are he's going to be spelling Riedl anyway for people, so it's no extra burden. It looks like a very dignified, smart name to me. Oliver is one of my favorites, too.
With DH and my one syllable S- last names, some of our favorites were knocked out because they were tongue twisters (two last names, so think either Sage or Hyacinth with Schultz or Sul--similar to our names). We also like Silas, but with our names, it really sounds like some sort of brand name medicine--you know, Singulair, Sominex, Silasol? :o)
For some reason Bruno has more negative associations to me than Oscar, Grover, Elmo or even Ernie and Bert. That said, I do admire singer Tom Chapin's Bruno.
Link to lyric- http://members.aol.com/chapinfo/tc/ldpwb.html
Sharon, just wanted to say that I agree with what Lily and hyz said: he's going to have to spell out his last name anyway so I don't see any problem. I think it sounds really nice!
Regarding more "naming rules" a la Oliver Regal â our last name has a strong "r" sound in it and I can't decide if a first name with an "r" sound is too much. I really like the name Alistair, is it too much with a last name like Orton? Alistair Orton?
Marta-I think Daphne and Penelope are both lovely. I actually think both may be up and comers, based strictly on the fact that Daphne has come up on this board lately, and a very hip couple I know has picked Penelope for their new daughter (their second choice was Beatrice).
I really don't think Daffy will be much of an issue. If you're really concerned about it, I'd just embrace it. I know that sounds odd, but I have a friend with a son named Tate. They just decided to call him Tater Tot affectionately, and it does seem to work.
Oh, Penelope/Penny is also a character on Lost, for those of you who subscribe to the Lost/Grey's Anatomy school of trend prediction.
As to others that are similar, I adore Cecilia, which you have as a mn choice. I think someone may have already mentioned Cecily (I like sess-a-lee). Also from your mns, Belinda and Marcela seem to fall somewhere in the middle of Penelope and Dahpne. I also adore Greta, Delia, and Helena from your list.
How about Claudia, Sabine, or Cosette?
Just have to put my vote in for Oscar. Of course, I have always loved an avid misanthrope! But really Oscar has lots of validation beyond hot dogs and muppets. (What other Elmo is there? It's just a red monster to me)
Oh, I have a name mystery I'd like help solving:
DH and I have been looking at houses to buy. One house we saw obviously has two young girls in it. The older one's name is displayed, and it's Kennedy. The younger one only has an initial, B. What is her name? The neighborhood is borderline middle/upper middle class, btw. I have been racking my brain and can't think what Kennedy's little sister might be... Any ideas?
Blair? Bridget? Brooke? Bethany? Bryony? I think we need more clues....
Brinkley or Braleigh. Or Bush, if they're keeping with the presidential theme. :)
Brooklyn? Brecklin?
I'd guess Bailey or Bryleigh.
I know two sisters named Kennedy and Reagan.
me: "bad subdivision names" - hilarious!
Bailey, Brighton, Blythe, Brynn, Brett, Braden/Brayden,... Or maybe it's one of those cases where one parent named the first one and the other parent named the second one. Could be Bella, Beatrice, Brianna, Barry, Betty, Betsey, or Barbara! Well, okay, I'd bet a million bucks it's not Betty or Barbara, but I guess you never know. Fun puzzle.
Kristi- I'm hoping to be expecting but it's taking a while....
Valerie-
All the more time to ponder wonderful names. All the best to you.
Just a reminder - there was a fine British actor called Oliver Reed.
Ah - I didn't think of Bailey and that sounds about right. Runner ups to me would be Bryleigh, Brynn, and Brett.
Thanks for the guesses! Wish I could find out for sure :(
My first thought was Brynn, seems to fit with Kennedy.
cb--maybe O'Hare or Logan :)....no, I think Bailey sounds right. Rest easy.
Another naming mystery -
Does anyone out there read MetroDad? I've been wondering for ages what his little girl might be named.
Here are the clues - it's a boy's name, but it's rarely used these days and is of English origin. Also, it sounds somewhat like a Korean last name.
I'm not going to post the link to his site in case we somehow figure out the name, but just Google MetroDad if you want a funny read in the daddyblog category. Excellent writing.
My guess has long wavered between Dale and Dane (similar to the ln Dae).
Thank you all for relieving my mind with regard to Oliver. My mom and sister both told me that the double R didn't bother them, but having an impartial audience to bounce it off of is enormously helpful. And perhaps, besides teaching him early to enunciate his name (hyz & Meegan were 100% correct in that I'm constantly repeating and/or spelling out my last name anyway), he could also use a middle initial to break up the R's--I'm thinking Charles for a mn. The Oliver Reed association doesn't bother me. I also found out via a Google search that there's an Oliver Riedel (slightly different spelling of ln) who is a bassist in a German band. But since he's not super well-known, I don't think it's a problem.
roundabout: I don't see any problem with Alistair Orton. I think it has a pleasant alliteration.
Here are my guesses for the name that sounds somewhat like a Korean lastname. Excuse my ignorance if some of these are not of English origin. Here we go:
(I'm assuming it's not Lee, since that sounds more than *somewhat* like a Korean last name).
Clark, Shane, Kip, Don, Chip, Chad, Ray, Cole, Ken, Tim,...
Dale and Dane are good guesses.
cb-Definitely Bailey or Brooklyn
Valerie-On the nature ln issue, I do think it depends on the name.
Our ln is pronounced like the name of a color, so I can sympathize.
I think a solid ln like Hill or Stone sounds fine with most nature fns, but something a little "softer," could be too much.
Violet Rivers, for example, sounds too much like a stage name, if you know what I mean. I'd also avoid anything that could sound like a subdivision-Autumn Woods, let's say. Linnea is a lovely option in any case. I'll look forward to your good news!
Love Phoebe as a possible Daphne alternative. I also thought I'd mention Gwendolyn, just for fun.
I am amazed by sisters named Kennedy and Reagan. Were their parents trying to cover all political bases? These sound like the children of James Carville and Mary Matalin!
I've loved Oliver since the Sixties-- wonder if the movie musical adaptation of Dickens' "Oliver Twist" had anything to do with that? Oliver Twist, Oliver Reed, Oliver North-- (but not Oliver Stone-- too loopy). All kinds of interesting associatians. Like the nickname "Ollie" for a little boy. An even older nickname is "Noll" (same principle as "Ned" for Edward). It's amusing but maybe sounds too much like for a girl?
As one of the "older", aging Baby Boomer (aaagh) name fanatics, I've seen them come and go, and am getting a bit nervous about Oliver, as I have been about Henry. Are they going to go crazy-popular? Some would say they already have, in some circles...
Ten years from now, will my other faves, (which used to be 'out there'), Barnaby/Barnabas, Balthasar, Columbus, Augusta, York, etc., be almost commonplace? It could happen.
I think Edward will come back. Was reading "SpongeBob" (sp?) with my little guy, and we both loved saying "Squidward" so much!
Omigosh--I just ran across a baby (born this month) named Dresden! Dresden!? Either these people are NOT history buffs, or they ARE history buffs with some very interesting naming philosophies....
Back on topic, I like Alistair Orton, and I think Linnea "Hill" sounds lovely, too. Mn "Charles" with Oliver Riedl is nice, sticks with a very distinguished sound, and I like Charles a lot.
Off topic again, I was talking to some people about superstitions and old wives' tales, and someone said that a woman named Mary will have a hard life. I thought that was an interesting one, never heard it before--have you heard this, or other naming superstitions?
name game: Bennett? But that would be a very young girl I think.
I think Alistair Orton sounds fine too.
I finally broke down and emailed my mother-in-law our potential name list, and she seemed distinctly underwhelmed. Her suggestions? Kaylee and Leslie, which are really not to my taste. Really. Not.
I've noticed I really hate talking about our potential names to anyone in the real world - do you think it would be disingenuous to just tell people some really common name no one could possibly have a problem with? Not family, of course, because I'd like them to get used to whatever name we pick in advance, but people like the receptionist at the dentist's office, girls at the grocery store, etc. who really have no bearing on anything but still seem to feel compelled to offer their opinion?
On the other hand, maybe if I like the name, I should 'own' it proudly?
Maybe the Dresden family are antique buffs? In which case they're thinking of Dresden china and not Dresden, the bombing?
Though Dresden sounds awfully like dreary and depressing to me.
kristin dawn--I can understand wanting to give family time to get used to a name, but as for relative strangers, why not just tell them you haven't decided yet, or that you prefer to keep it to yourselves? No matter how innocuous a (false) name you come up with, someone will have an opinion on it, which they will insist on sharing with you.
Good point, kristin dawn. We'll have to see if they name their next kid Hiroshima or Chippendale. :)
And who are these nosy people rendering unsolicited opinions on the name of *your* child? Really. I wouldn't even think of asking expectant parents that I didn't know *very* well about their possible names, and I *certainly* wouldn't give unsolicited critiques, regardless of how awful I might personally find their choices. If someone asked me (maybe even immediate family), I might just say, "oh we don't know yet" or "oh, that's top secret for now--we're not telling anyone until the date is closer" or something like that. Really, with acquaintances, it's none of their business. And with family, if they're going to try to *cram* their $.02 in and be negative about your choices, I'd rather keep them out of any decision-making process. Too many cooks spoil the broth, and makes for a stressful time in the kitchen. It's hard enough for DH and I to agree--we don't need 5 more people to try to please.
On nature/geographical names, this is surely the place to (re) mention my litle cousin Spike Rock.
We have a naturey surname and any flower name at the front sounds exactly like an air freshner. Especially Violet, sadly.
There's at least one Edward in the nearby second-grade class--he was in my daughter's K class.
Hey, and don't forget Squidward's brother, Squilliam! And if I meet a family in 20 years with kids Edward, William, Robert, and Patrick, daughters Sandra and Pearl, I'll have to wonder....who lives in a Pineapple under the Sea?
Since the name Alistair has been mentioned here a few times, I'm just wondering what people really think of the name. Both husband and I like the name, but don't think it translates quite as well in *American* - I much prefer hearing it from a British tongue. My other reservations are a lack of a good nickname both of us like and it sounding slightly too pretentious. Any ideas?
I knew an American boy named Alistair, he's probably 25ish now--great kid, great name. Everyone pronounced it basically like "Allister", no nn, and it didn't seem pretentious at all. I think Alec or Alex could easily be nns, if you like them.
I just came across a very interesting name. In light of some American trends, I wonder if it will take off. I just met a little boy named Eden, pronounced like the Hebrew -- Ay-den rather than the English Eee-den, so that it sounds more like Aidan. Between the Aidan trend and the religious trends, I wonder if this new pronunciation will take off... I just throught it was interesting to share.
Alistair sounds wonderful to my American ears. It does sound very British to me (I can see an Alistair with a brother named Nigel and a sister named Imogen), but that's not a bad thing at all. I see it taking off in the States.
I have never posted anything here, but I love reading everyone's comments. It's good to know there are people out there as name-obsessed as I am!
I would love to get your thoughts on my boys name issue. My husband's favorite name is Thatcher - it is a name from his family and he has always wanted to use it. I like it, but fear it's a little much since I want to give our son my last name as his middle name. Both my last name and my husband's last name (which will be son's last name) are very WASPy sounding. So I fear Thatcher is too much too tack on. I feel like we need a short, strong one-syllable name (both my ln and DH's are 2 syllable) that is not "last-name" sounding. I am extremely partial to Tate and also like Hugo. What does everyone think?
Also, DH likes Tate but thinks it sounds like a nn. What about naming him Thatcher and calling him Tate? Is that weird?