In this final installment of "one-hit wonder names" (see parts, 1, 2 and 3) we take a names-eye-view tour through history.
Baby names act as a cultural mirror, reflecting the mood and obsessions of every age. Sometimes it's a whole style, like the girls given boyish names (Frankie, Tommie) in the 1930s. Sometimes it's personality driven, like the Shirley surge in that same decade. And sometimes a specific historical moment is memorialized in names. The one-hit wonder names are a treasure trove of these cultural moments. Some of the moments were momentous, others pop-culture trifles. A few were completely unknown to me until the names themselves led me to them, and a few frankly shocked me as name inspirations. Check them out yourself in this arbitrary, capricious One-Hit Timeline of History.
1895: Trilby
George du Maurier's novel Trilby, first published serially in 1894, was a popular sensation. Filled with romance, horror, plucky heroes and supernatural villainry, Trilby became one of the most popular books (and later plays) of its time. The novel's longest-lasting contribution to our language comes from its villain, the all-powerful Jewish hypnotist Svengali, but during the book's heyday the beautiful Irish heroine Trilby made her naming mark as well.
1898: Gladstone
William Ewart Gladstone was one of the leading political forces of 19th-century England, serving several terms as Prime Minister between 1868 and 1894. The "gladstone bag" and "gladstone carriage" took their names from him. Gladstone died in 1898.
1898: Schley
The 1898 Battle of Santiago de Cuba was the largest naval engagement of the Spanish-American War. The destruction of the Spanish fleet was a milestone in the decline of Spanish influence in the Americas. The United States squadron was commanded, somewhat controversially, by Rear Admiral Winfield Scott Schley.
1900: Goebel
William J. Goebel was a controversial figure in Kentucky politics. Goebel was a populist, a foe of big business and an advocate of civil rights, and the consummate practitioner of machine politics. In 1895 he killed political adversary John Sanford in a duel, but plead self-defense and was acquitted. In 1899 he won a disputed election to become governor of Kentucky. On January 30, 1900 Goebel was shot in the chest by an assassin; the next day he was sworn in as governor; two days later he was dead. He remains the only U.S. state governor to be assassinated in office.
1918: Foch
Ferdinand Foch was a distinguished general of the French Army and Marshal of France. In the Spring of 1918 he was named Supreme Commander of the Allied Forces, leading the international armies which turned back the last major German advance of WWI. Foch accepted Germany's surrender on November 11, 1918.
1954: Rahn
In 1954 the German soccer team was unseeded entering the World Cup tournament in Bern, Switzerland, the first World Cup they were permitted to compete in after World War II. In the finals against heavily favored Hungary, Germany trailed until Helmut Rahn scored both tying and winning goals. Rahn became a national sporting legend and the game came to be known as the "Miracle of Bern," a turning point in post-war German identity.
1964: Destry
The TV Western "Destry" which premiered in 1964 was a spinoff of the classic film Destry Rides Again. It didn't last a full season.
1972: Jabbar
In 1971 basketball great Lew Alcindor, who had led the Milwaukee Bucks and UCLA Bruins to championships, changed his name to the Arabic Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. Kareem debuted on the popular name charts in 1972 at #407 and has become an African-American standard. Jabbar was propelled to popularity the same year but quickly faded.
1977: Amin
In 1976 Ugandan president Idi Amin allowed a hijacked airplane originating from Israel to land at the Entebbe airport. The event turned international attention toward his violent regime which was blamed for hundreds of thousands of deaths. By 1977, Amin was a global larger-than-life villain. As other nations broke off diplomatic ties he bestowed extravagant titles on himself and attracted a swirl of rumors of personal atrocities.
1977: Kunta, Kinte
The 1977 miniseries "Roots," based on the novel by Alex Haley, was a cultural phenomen. An overwhelming popular and critical success, "Roots" turned a generation of Americans--especially African-Americans--toward the study of geneology and family history, and helped encourage a trend toward African-styled baby names. The lead character, Kunta Kinte, was a Mandinka boy in Gambia who was kidnapped by slave traders and taken to America. Both Kunta and Kinte made the 1977 name charts.
Comments
I agree, and I also agree with Kristen Dawn's comment that although names might be characterized as WASPy, you're not going to find a lot of people who get bad vibes when they hear a WASPy name. Kind of the opposite end of the conversation about kre8tive spellings on resumes and the subconscious negative reactions that might come about--a WASPy name would probably bring out positive feelings, if even subconsciously.
Thayer is the name of the high school I went to (private prep school near Boston, I guess I'm a WASP). It was named for Sylvanus Thayer who was an army general and one of the founders of West Point. Also the name of the engineering school at Dartmouth. I think of it as a last name, so I guess it fits into the last turned first trend. I have not heard it used as a first name before.
To ask another sort of waspy question -- my husband is a third in the wasp tradition. His name is Richard. If we were to go with Richard the fourth for our hypothetical future son, can anyone think of a good nickname for Richard which is not Rick, Rich or Dick? Is Reese too much of a stretch?
Eo, OMG, that makes my modest, quiet Mid-Western father a WASP. I never thought of that. He's lived in England since the 70's anyway, but definitely displays all of those traits.
Sharon - I love your description of your naming style - underutilized classics that travel well. Great naming philosophy! I absolutely love Elisabeth spelled that way - I think that is the English way of spelling it too. I am Kimberley spelled the English way because my dad is from London. I like your boys names - Oliver is wonderful - my 1 year old nephew has that name (his twin brother is Jake). If you like Tobias, have you considered Tobin? A very close friend named her son Tobin. It's very distinctive. Also, Sebastian is one of my favorite names - I've heard the nn Bash, which I love. Sebastian had to be crossed off my list because it doesn't work with DH's last name.
I agree with the others above that said Caroline fits well with Sophie. I think it's perfect. I also love Cecily. I don't think it's too cutesy for siblings to be Sophie and Cecily - and I am pretty particular about how sibling names go together. Speaking of which, what sounds better with Estella - Tate or Thatcher?
Ran out of room above -
Thank you Kristin Dawn for reminding me that I am indeed overthinking things!
J&H mom - I love the image of Thayer as Thatcher's waspier cousin. Hee!
I am also amused by Bennett and Bliss. Some names I think sound upper class, just because you have to be so bold to pull them off. If I heard the name Bliss in a vacuum, I would probably think it was awful, but hearing about this little girl and her sister Bennett, it now seems kind of cute and even cool. I think once you attach names to a child, the child becomes the name - and then it's hard to not like the name. Which is a good argument for not telling anyone what name you've chosen when you're pregnant.
Eo, I haven't read that book, but a lot of those adjectives are not ones I would immediately pick to describe WASPs.
Self-denial--if you count summering on the cape, Brooks Brothers, prep school, and Mercedes as self denial, I guess this fits...
Thrift--see above
Hard-working--maybe, but compared to who? I don't see them as wild partiers or do-nothing trust fund types. Maybe they spend long hours at the office, but compared to the coal miners and steel mill workers in my recent lineage, or the Puritan farmers, I'm not exactly sure I'd immediately label them "hard-working".
I *would* associate the stereotypical WASP with civic-mindedness, manners, and restraint. Strong education and philanthropy also come to mind.
WASP means something specific, and as such, I do not think the African-Americans you named, nor I with my Catholic and partially Eastern European background would qualify. The *names*, however, I think are fair game for anyone--they are standard English-speaking fare.
That said, I do frequently love WASP names, and I don't mean to be harsh--I just don't want to romanticize things overmuch.
KRC--I think either Thatcher or Tate go quite well with Estella. And I agree with you that Sophie and Cecily would be fine sisters.
sdh--I'm not sure there are any other common Richard nns--maybe you could do Dix or Hix, which would have some historical backing. You could do Reese of course--your nn can be anything you want--but it would work especially well if his mn started with C, so it would be a shortening of R.C.
Also, regarding your question about popular names around my neighborhood - when I said I thought Xavier was too popular, I didn't mean people around me, I was actually referring to the SS list. I actually don't know any Xaviers. I just love the name and X is a very cool initial to have!
I don't have kids yet, so I don't really meet a lot of little ones in my area. I am from the midwest and went to college there, where people have kids at younger ages, and all my friends from college have 2 or 3 kids whereas I haven't started yet. My sister lives in Chicago with 2 kids (Sam and Ellie) and I meet a lot of little ones who live on her suburban street. Lots of Charlies, Henrys, Jacks. One little boy is named Yvonne, which I thought was kind of sweet.
sdh, I like hyz's idea. I wasn't feeling the Reese thing at first (love the name, just didn't see it as a logical nn for Richard), but that would make a lot of sense. Also, the mn could start with S and it would work equally well.
I really like the name Richard, though. Have you thought about just calling him by his full name? I know a baby Richard and I think it's really cute, and of course distinguished on an adult.
The WASP traits - self-denial, thrift, hard work, restraint - immediately brought to mind the residents of Lake Woebegone Minnesota, Garrison Keillor's mythical hometown. Would Florian Krepsbach qualify as a WASPy name?
kristi--LOL--I'm with you. You know, I think Florian *might* just work as a WASP name (like Julian), but I don't think you can sneak Krepsbach by them! :o)
Re: Richard nicknames--yeah, it's tough to get around Rich or Rick. But I've heard Chip and Chad used--they're also nicknames for Charles, but the CH in the middle makes those fair game for Richard too, I guess? (Of course, Chip and Chad won't make the name any less preppy sounding!)
Richard the Third could also be Trip or Trey--speaking of WASPy! I've known several.
hyz - you could drop the O from O'Meara and get a decent sounding girl's name. Meara - it even looks pretty.
Great responses. I don't think you're being harsh at all, hyz. Remember, I said there is such a thing as a 'WASP sensibility', which doesn't imply membership in the very specific subgroup that Digby Baltzell first delineated, and that Richard Brookhiser et al have discussed. I don't think Brookhiser was romanticizing a la Scott Fitzgerald either.
He deplores the insularity of the early ruling class. He depicts the snobbery of the Ivy League, and its treatment of brilliant people like Lionel Trilling, a Jew, who finally won tenure at Columbia in the Forties, I think.
It's pretty ironic that it's no longer the WASPs in America who have the power to exclude and denigrate! But some of their better qualities, I think, do linger in the culture, and it doesn't surprise me in the least, Valerie, that your Dad exhibits them!
I'm pretty "open borders" when it comes to names, and think we should all have a crack at the good ones...
sdh-- I'll second Hix and Dix. And I'll proffer my favorite, "Hitch".
I'm going to have to say no on Hix and Dix. Go with Reese.
Eo--I suppose I'd agree that there's a WASP sensibility--I'm just not sure I agree 100% with you (and Brookhiser) about what that sensibility is! :)
Oh, and I like Hitch!
Hitch is great! Love it. Reese is nice but very common I think, if that concerns you. I hear of a lot of Reeses and Rhyses.
Can I throw forth Dickon as a nn for Richard? Like the boy in the Secret Garden?
If not, I like Chip or Reese (sorry for the double post).
Eo: yes I'm British, 'teen' might well be the British pronunciation and hence UK celebrity chef Jamie Oliver using it (incidentally his children are Poppy and Daisy which is just way to themed for my liking, but I digress...) My pronunciation: 'Clementyne' was I guess subconsciously influenced by the song and simply because I think it's much nicer. Thanks for helping clear that little matter up!
Valerie: Oh good, I was hoping that you would say Linn-ay-a - that was my initial assumption and preference.
Hyz: I've got Andrew, Tucker and err Gay lurking in my surname family tree (don't think I'll be saddling any offspring with that one though!)
Sdh: I'm really not feeling Reece, it's common in the UK - I think as a sort of Anglicized version of the Welsh Rhys. Why not just Richard? That would be so fresh and smart on a little one. I have to say on the nickname front I'm backing Hitch all the way! :-)
Hitch just reminds me of the Will Smith movie.
Surnames in my recent heredity include Morgan, Howard, Hampton, Reynolds, and Ray. DH's family surnames include Turner and Watson. I've thought a lot about using one of those as a name for a child.
KRC--a boy named Yvonne? I can't get past that as a purely female name. Is there some trend coming up that I'm not aware of?
jt and Katherine, you have a few good ones! And C&C's mom--thanks, and good point about Meara. It's not half bad, I suppose.
I was wondering about Yvonne, too. Maybe a misspelling of Ivan?
Remember Laura's #1 rule of baby-naming, would you want to have that name yourself? We're all making decisions for somebody else, not for ourselves. I can't help but feel that alot of these names being tossed around on the board here sound guilty of just trying too hard to be creative or clever or cute. I try and consider how names come off in a variety of contexts:
(1) how does it sound when being yelled? (a) "Hey _____, I'm open, pass it!" (b) "hey _____, will ya grab me a beer while you're up" (c) "gaddamit, _____, I can't believe you crashed the car!"
(2) A fella has to introduce himself to pretty ladies: "hi, I'm _____, can I buy you a drink?" (or whatever people say anymore)
(3) name should look good on a resume.
Versatility is key in my book. Florian, allistair, julian, sebastian et al seem limiting to me, like someone's trying to foist a specific persona or expectations onto the child. I have good friend who (along with his older brother) went and legally changed their first names when they were old enough because they were so goofy. We tend to err on the cautious side and have a henry and likely a patrick in january, fwiw.
Anybody else want to know the names of don's friend who decided to change their names? Come on don, let's hear 'em!
don,
good point, and that's where nns come in sometimes (I thought Bash was clever for Sebastian). I don't think anyone was seriously suggesting Florian, and as for Alistair and Julian--the Alistair I knew in junior high and the Julian I knew in college were both very athletic, popular, and uncommonly attractive--I don't think either would have any trouble with the beer, sports, or bar scene. I doubt either of them have resume problems, either--and the fancy schools on their resumes probably don't hurt.
One more instance of kids making the name. If a person thinks their kid might be likely stand out in a negative way for some reason, I'd say certainly don't brand them with something that will make them stick out. Otherwise, I think most of the names mentioned will work fine for most kids.
Only you all will find this discussion-worthy: a couple with four daughters joined our church this Sunday. The girls' names are:
Amy
Paloma
Lily
Shirley Ann (named after her grandmother)
What a fantastic mix of naming styles!
A little late to respond everyone, but thanks for weighing in on Alistair (and I agree with everyone that it would be pronounced Allister). I like the Scottish 'Alasdair' spelling (in fact, it is appealing to us because of its Scottish origins) but I think it's very, very unlikely that North Americans would find this spelling intuitive (let's face it, people will probably misspell it anyway!)
I've met a few Scottish Alistairs nicknamed "Allie," which may sound feminine to North Americans but which I find quite charming.
I think that Julian and Sebastian are both common enough in the generation of babies being born today that they are very unlikely to be considered "goofy" in the future. The jury would still be out on Florian and Allister as far as the USA is concerned, perhaps. :)
I agree that "Would you want to have that name yourself?" is a good question. But I honestly think there are VERY few parents who seriously consider any name where they would themselves answer that question in the negative. I think most parents who are considering Allister or Sebastian would think it was really cool if they themselves had those names (and were male.)
And given that the tastes of young women in names are often different from the tastes of young men -- I think the image of both Sebastian and Julian (and probably Allister) for most young American women today would be of a very attractive and sophisticated man, and they'd have no problem with that "Can I buy you a drink?" question at all.
Cleveland Kent Evans--that's what I was thinking! I know I might personally be more receptive to a drink from Alistair or Julian than Dave/Andy/Mike/Chris/etc. (if I weren't married, of course!). It depends on the crowd, of course, but a lot of women like a man with style and sophistication.
By the way, the Alistair I knew was probably a WASP, and the Julian was of Chinese heritage, I think.
How about Rix or maybe even Rex as a nn for Richard? (Is that stretching too far?)Someone suggested Dickon - I must say I know a Diccon who gets ribbed mercilessly for his name but pulls it off with characteristic flair!
Don, I take your point about how some names can sound too try hard but to my British ears Alistair doesn't fit that bill at all. Don't forget that a name that might sound 'over the top cool' in one region/country and be commonplace in another (Oscar is a good example of that here - becoming more and more mainstream)...
Kelly: What a set! Paloma is in the air at the moment, I'm hearing it everywhere!
Ps. On the other hand Don, perhaps I should admit that I think I'd be more likely to accept a drink from a Mike/Dave/Andy/Chris as opposed to a Julian, Sebastian or Maximilian say...
(I mean obviously at some stage I must have, given that I'm with a Mike!)
Don't ask me why but my gut feeling is that a Mike/James/Matt or Chris would be more likely to be my cup of 'down- to-earth' tea. Eeek! Cue backlash! :-)
I definitely think it is both a geographical and a generational thing. And at risk of stating the obvious, there was a time when names like Chris and Matt were the newfangled names to give kids. Could it be that names that sound like they are trying too hard are actually the new Chrises, Andys and Matts? I wonder if there was a point where people thought that little Christopher's parents were really stretching it, trying to make their son into something that they hoped he would be by naming him that. I mean, most of the names talked about on this board aren't so-called "made-up" names, just outside of the mainstream.
Also, I'd like to pipe in on the name Julian. The one Julian I've known was a student of mine a couple years ago, which would make him about 18 years old now. He was of Italian descent and very down-to-earth; not pretentious at all. So I guess I don't see that name as all that off the beaten path, or as a try too hard name.
Katherine--interesting. Not meaning to cast any aspersions on your Mike, of course :o) but here's how I see it. I've met some really awesome Mikes, etc., some *awful* ones, and some *meh* ones. So Mike is a blank slate for me, first impression is boring, and it's totally forgettable.
In fact, I have a near neighbor whose name I still can't remember, and now it's too late to ask--is it Mike? Or Joe? It's one of those normal ones, that's all I can remember. At work (I'm in a big office) I'm constantly mixing up which guy is called Matt, Mark, John, Chris, Dave, Jeremy, Jason, Joe, Eric, Mike, Kevin, Andy--I recognize their faces, I know who they are and what they do and if they're nice, but their names are a blank or a vague memory. However, I never forget Perry, Bruce, Isaac, Edgar, Ephraim.
The people I've known with interesting names tend to be interesting (with exceptions). I hear about a guy named Julian or Paxton, and I want to meet him. Unfortunately, Paxton turned out to be a twit. :D
Thanks for the Richard ideas everyone. I have a strong preference for nicknames that start with the same letter as the name, hence Reese (middle name would be S, so some of you seem to think it could work). I like Rex, which someone else suggested, hadn't though of that one...
I don't think my husband would go for Richard. Of course, it's all hypothetical at this point as we're not yet expecting. Maybe we'll only have girls!
Hyz: I agree, I've never forgotten or confused people with interesting names and I love to hear them. That said, (and feel free to psychoanalyse this) I much prefer hearing them on girls...
Here's the thing, I rather like the idea of the blank slate 'every man' name - the idea that you can in some way transcend your name. It's an instant assumption based on very little I know, but to me names like James, Will, Pete and Mike say 'wholesome, traditional and decent' and much though I love unusual names I just can't shake that...
Don, thank you, so so much, for your post. I absolutely agree with you.
I would even go so far as to say some parents, after their years of life experience, wish they themselves were a bit different - i.e. more cosmopolitan, smarter, or European - and name their kids things that represent the parents' own wishes so singularly that to innocent bystanders they seem pretentious and overreaching.
Remember, just because you think you'd like to have a name *now* doesn't mean you would have liked to have had it when you were 13. Cool changes dramatically from year to year - I don't quite think I could pull off a pierced navel at 39 and I know the local kids don't listen to Radiohead.
I really think it is not wise to name kids because a) you think it will add to your own coolness factor or b) you are hoping the child will grow up to be what you consider at the age of 25-30-45 to be cool.
Yeah, "wholesome, traditional, and decent"--that's why I'd run the other way, to avoid the yawning boredom.... ;)
At least, I would have, when I was a young unmarried thing. I'd have said, keep your Mikes and Jeffs. Bring on the Antonios and Clives!
Kelly, that sib set floored me! Wow.
Aha, but you'll be 13 for one year. You'll be an adult for most of your life. So a name that suits an adult makes more sense, no? Teenagers think their lives stink, no matter if they're John, Jane, or Melisande--but they get over it.
Didn't love my name at 13. Wouldn't trade it for the world now.
Just for the record, Chris and Matt have always been popular names. No one was ever going, whoa, what crazy name book didya pull Matthew out of? (Um. It's called the Bible??)
It's only been fairly recently that the whole craze for cutting-edge-different baby names (for boys anyway) has even been going on. Weren't most boys named John, James, and Robert until like ten years ago??
Of course, Sebastian, Julian, and Oliver have also been in use for hundreds of years. It's not an issue of popularity or longetivity, just that names conjure up certain imagery for people, and it just seems wise to thoroughly consider the issue ahead of time as our kids will be stuck with the consequences for the next 80-plus years.
The interesting thing about the sib set is that Amy, the oldest, is in high school, Paloma is an eighth grader, Lily is in second grade, and Shirley Ann is a kindergartner! The girls attend a private, international school in town, so the eclectic mix sort of suit them.
Another interesting name: Lawrence (for a girl.) I teach Sunday School with a man named Larry, and his little granddaughter is named after him. I think it's kind of cool.
I'm sure Laura has blogged about this before, but what *is* it with all of the "un" names for boys? Austin, Cameron, Justin - those have been around for a while. But Aidan, Julian, Jaden/Jayden, Caden/Kaden, etc?
I think it's really interesting that in the post-911 world (here in the U. S.) with all of the macho, go-after-the-bad-guys posturing, that "soft" names for boys have been so popular lately. I mean, Caden? I just have a hard time picturing all of the grown-up Jadens and Cadens.
No one loves anything about themselves when they are 13. That's why we as parents shell out bucks for guitar lessons, orthodontia, and designer clothes. A reasonable name is cheap in comparison and just as effective.
There are sooooo many names that suit teenagers and adults equally, why on earth would you risk ruining your kid's childhood just because you think it would be superspecialawesome to have a little Florian?? Because you think it might help him pick up women someday?
It ain't gonna help him when he's 16 and needs it. Jaden's going to get all the action and Florian is going to grow up with no self-confidence and still not get any play.
What happens in childhood doesn't stay in childhood...
sdh - I like Reese for Richard. Or the suggestion of Rex.
KRC - Estella is lovely! I also like the name Thatcher, nn Tate (or no nn at all!)
Sharon - I like Oliver, Reid (although obviously won't work for you), and Elliott. I would like Sebastian, but have already used it on a cat, so now it's forever a feline name in my head. :)
For girls, the clear choices for me are Alice and Caroline. Both are very clean and strong sounding to me.
Kelly - I agree, that is such an interesting trend! You'd think we'd be getting a generation of Rockys and Dukes. And then at the same time, girls are getting names traditionally designated as boyish, from Madison straight through to Lawrence. It would take a sociologist to explain it.
Ok, I have to say it: Julian, Sebastian, Oliver and Alistair are names that will sound absolutely commonplace to kids born in 2007. They might not be in the top ten, but they'll certainly be in circulation and will "fit" the generation. So while I see what you mean about the trying-too-hard-to-be-cool issue with names, I just don't think it applies at all to names like those. In addition, while the Julians, Alistairs, Olivers, and Sebastians born in 1970 might have stood out a bit more, I'd be much more inclined to have a drink with one of those than a Mike/Andy/Tom/Dave any day, all other things being equal. It is just a matter of taste, and I don't think these names are a case of anyone trying too hard. Murgatroyd, on the other hand, well I just think that's unfair.
And Kristin Dawn, I hope I don't have to point out that just because a name's in the bible, that doesn't mean people have always thought it was a "normal" or standard name. There aren't many boys named Zenobius or Ezekiel, after all. cont'd
con't... I'll just point out that up until the 50s, both Christopher and Matthew were used on less than 500 per million babies. Meanwhile, Oliver is currently used on approximately 500 per million, and Sebastian on about 1400, and Julian on over 1500. Also, Oliver and Julian have been in the top 1000 for the past century, and Sebastian has *almost* been in the top 1000 consistently. So saying that Christopher and Matthew have always been more "normal" names is really not true... they're just the names that we've been used to in the past 50 years.
Have noted the name Xavier is mentioned here fairly often and popularity has risen dramatically over the past 15 years (78th in 2006).
A note of interest - Justin Trudeau and Sophie Gregoire had a son today named Xavier James Trudeau, a grandson of Pierre Elliot Trudeau, the Prime Minister of Canada for thirteen years between 1968 and 1984.
Also, with the case of Florian, this, again, is a generational thing. It's very possible that Florian will start to sound more "normal" and "masculine" in the coming years...I'm not big on the Fl sound myself, but I don't think it's a bad name. It doesn't, after all, sound out of place in some countries/cultures, so I think it could catch on in the states. I know a French man named Florian, living in the states for about 10 years now, about 25 years old, who's quite the ladies man, sort of a Euro frat boy type, and I'd be willing to bet his name didn't set him back at all in his teens. I think a Florian today would be a bit ahead of the curve, but he'd probably be just fine. It's not my style, but to me, it's no Murgatroyd.
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