The Baby Name Wizard

Kelly- re the girl named Lawrence. In France, Laurence is the feminine form of the name and Laurent is for boys.So she'd be right at home.

Wow, marjorie, I remember when the little Trudeaus came along, the offspring of the ill-fated union between Pierre Trudeau and the flighty Margaret Sinclair. Funny how "Justin" seems a bit dated (to me at least) now...

I still really like your name. Isn't there an old nursery rhyme that dates to the Elizabethan period, perhaps-- "See saw, Marjorie (Margery) Daw"? What are your favorite nicknames for Marjorie, if any?

I think I learned the term WASP in contrast to the stereotype of Jewish folks. Or in some book where some white immigrant was bemoaning their family's inability to fit in. So I see WASP as reserved, not expressing emotion (the quiet, boring churches, in contrast to the African American singing, for example). No raucous laughter. Maybe like Whistler's mother? I see it as being the white norm I guess. Or at least the white norm at some time in the past.

re: NNs for Richard: Someone mentioned RC. I also know an RJ. What do you all think of RT=Artie? Too silly?

Kristen dawn, I think you had a really good point when you said that Chris and Matt have always been popular names, because it shows how quickly a name that hasn't been popular at all can come into our cultural consciousness as a popular name...to where we even assume that it has always been that way. And I think it's hard for us (the non-name statisticians) to accurately judge whether or not the desire to name children something "different" or "cutting edge" has just come about, since by looking at a list of most popular names from 100 years ago, most of them look fairly commonplace to us, even if they were seen as cutting-edge then.

so I was just playing around with nymbler and it gave me the following suggestion (based, by the way, on Oliver, Julian, Sebastian, following the conversation here):

St.john

That's right, formatted exactly like that: St.john. What in the world? Are people actually naming their children things like this? Now THAT is trying too hard. I couldn't even believe that a name like that would be in the database, since nymbler tells me it doesn't have enough data to go from my own name, which is not so odd. Can anyone provide some insight on this St.john business?

hi Eo - when I was young I always felt my name was rather formal (stodgy maybe :-) It does not suggest nn's other than Margie (there was a song)and I guess I have always just been Marj. I wish it had been spelled with g as Margery and Marge look nicer to me.
At art college I acquired the nickname Hank (from my surname)and my friends from that era still know me as Hank.

Names of peers from my childhood:

Jackie (Jacqueline)
Jeanette
Hazel
Josephine
Betty (probably Elizabeth)
Nancy
Mabel
Helen
Joy
Barbara
Harry
Gordon
Sammy (Samuel)
Billy (William)
Herbie (Herbert I suppose)
David
Alan
Bob (Robert)

and later
Lois
Liz (Elizabeth)
Nora
Leone
Gail
Beryl
Patricia
Joyce
Kathleen
Estrid
Doreen
Dawn
Margaret
Ted
Jack
Roger
Rice (boy)

Hardly a one that I would wish on a child! Curious isn't it!

Matthew was down around #200 on the SSA list in the 1930s, its lowest point, at about the same level of use as names like Nelson and Dewey at that time.

I distinctly remember back in the 1970s when I was first collecting data on names and telling people that Matthew had just made "Top Ten" status getting very negative reactions from people then over 50. "How could anyone be so cruel as to name a child Matthew? What an ugly name, with the "ewww" sound at the end! It's a sissy name, like Bartholomew." In other words, a lot of older people had the same sort of reactions to Matthew back in the 1970s than some people have to names like Julian and Sebastian today. :) Perceptions of names can change a great deal across the generations depending on their history of use. 40 years from now no one will have any trouble thinking of Jaden and Caden as being "adult" names, because everyone will know several adults who have those names.

(And personally, I can't see Caden as being "soft". To each their own.)

for amp - St.John is an old English given name pronounced Sinj'n (Sin-jn). Jane Eyre, when she fled from Mr. Rochester, took shelter with a minister and his two sisters. His name was St.John Rivers, I think. Not sure about the capital J.

As to the names that women would find attractive, I did once date a guy whose name I really disliked, and it always slightly bothered me. His name: Bob. So it's obviously just a matter of taste!

And St.John makes me think of "Four Weddings and a Funeral" when Rowan Atkinson's character can't get straight the names of the couple he's marrying--the groom's middle name is St.John.

Yep, St.John should definitely have a capital J. Probably Nymbler just has some automatic formatting procedure that gives every name an initial capital and the rest lower-case. I think there should also be a space in there after the . but this might be subject to typesetting standards: some people might just write St John, too.

I don't understand, is it pronounced like Saint John in English? I don't really get your explanation of the pronunciation, Marjorie, but I think perhaps you mean that it's pronounced the way one would say Saint John in French? Are people named with other saints' names in this way, including the Saint title?

Amp: It's pronounced 'Sin-Jun' - and while I have heard it before (Four weddings and a funeral and the odd upper class eccentric Telegraph birth announcement) it's seriously random here too. Certainly, I've never come across one!

amp-- Yup, I can ditto marjorie and Katharine, it's pronounced Sin-jin. Just like that, and NOT like the French pronunciation of Saint John. I also encountered it first in the novel "Jane Eyre", and the movie adaptations I've seen gave it the sinj'n pronunciation.

Chalk it up to the marvelous wild and wooly quirks of English pronunciation. Like "Cholmondeley" (sp?) is always pronounced "Chumley", and "Leicester", is "Lester", etc. I'm sure you Brits can give us other wonderful examples...

I love that your nickname at art school was "Hank", marjorie! It's like something out of a Dorothy Sayers novel. From your list I think Marjorie, Margaret, Nora, Josephine, Hazel, Harry, even Gordon, (in some circles) and certainly Samuel and Elizabeth would find eager partisans today. I like the nicknames "Marj", "Midge", and I could even see getting "Maisie" from your name...

I am also absolutely positive that a James Bond character played by Roger Moore once introduces himself to a villain as St John Smythe, and pronounces it Sinjin.

Of cultural pearls of British pronounciation, I would also add Worchester ("Wuster"), Gloucester ("Gloster"), a teeny town called Brough ("Bruff") and for the love of big rivers, the Thames ("Temms").

Sorry for disappearing--I got engrossed in a book yesterday and didn't post...

J&H's Mom--thanks for the feedback on Sebastian, I think I like the nn Baz or Bas better than Bash, which someone suggested. To me, I picture a little boy like "Bam Bam" from the Flintstones!

re: Bliss--I don't care for the name, personally, but I do like Blythe, which has a pretty similar meaning. And I think that there are a dearth of good one-syllable girl's names to balance out 2- or 3- syllable lns.

hyz: I like August, but don't love it. If Oliver doesn't sound too bad with my ln, then I will probably go with that. Or Sebastian if I can talk my husband into it. But I will put Cecily back on my girl's list, since you and KRC think it's not too cutesy with Sophie.

Kristin Dawn: Thank you for offering me a different regional naming sensibility. As you pointed out, one can never account for where you might wind up (or your child will eventually decide to settle, for that matter) If Oliver, Sebastian and Julian sound

cont'd...
nerdy, it's probably because my husband and I are pretty nerdy and would expect that any son we raise will probably attend more operas than baseball games during his upbringing.

KRC--I like Tobin as an alternative to Tobias, but isn't there a Tobin Bridge somewhere? Boston maybe? It sounds vaguely familar. I grew up outside of Boston and I can also not quite wrap my head around the popularity of Logan. My husband and I joke that a boy named Logan would probably have a little brother named Laguardia. Regarding siblings named Estella and Thatcher or Tate, I think they go very well together. I don't even know if I could choose between Thatcher and Tate as a brother to Estella. I think the best of both worlds is to use Thatcher and use Tate as a nn. And I don't think a WASPy-sounding name ever hurt anyone! If people make assumptions, they're likely only to be positive ones.

Florian was presented as a joke name. I don't think anyone was seriously suggesting it, it's just a farfetched example of a certain style of name.

I agree Oliver, Julian, and Sebastian are popular in some areas and among some social circles. I don't hate any of those names - I like Sebastian a lot and my cat is named Oliver - but they do have an overly intellectualy, feminine feel to them. Anyone who doesn't admit that Julian is more feminine-sounding than John isn't being honest.

There seem to be a lot of people on this blog who are from NYC or back east in general. I can see Julian in widespread use in Manhattan, certainly. I have a different perspective being raised on the West Coast, and my parents and in-laws are from Indiana and North Dakota respectively. You meet a lot fewer Julians in rural America than Manhattan.

All I am saying is, if your son is going to end up living in Fargo or Yakima, Julian is going to have a much harder time being accepted than John will.

kristin dawn, I have to respectfully disagree with your stance. You seem to be operating from the assumption that people choose certain names only to be cool or outlandish.

I can't speak for everyone, but our reasons for choosing the name Alastair are because of our ties to Scotland, where it Alastair is a much more commonplace name. We spend quite a bit of time in Scotland as well, and any future baby would hardly be looked at askance there.

I also like the name because of the way it looks and sounds and the visual it produces in my mind, but isn't that true of everyone? To me, there is a large difference between making up a name to be "cool" and choosing a name that is firmly established in another culture but may not be here in North America.

Sharon - My husband and I are nerdy as well. When I was pregnant with son #1 I wanted desperately to name him Andrew. I thought it sounded intellectual and classy (still do) but my husband refused. He thought Andy was too soft and geeky a name for a boy who would more than likely be somewhat geeky himself. Eventually, we compromised on Wyatt, which to us seemed strong and heroic, but also historical and smart.

Wyatt has grown up to be a much bigger nerd than either of us - let me just say he's awkward, buck-toothed, skinny as a rail, wears coke-bottle glasses, sings bass in musical theater, enjoys performing improv comedy, playing video games, and fencing, but for some reason, he's never had a problem with unpopularity. People of all ages just immediately like him, and I truly believe his name is no small part of that. Their first impression is, a guy called Wyatt has to be cool.

If you know your child is going to be nerdy, perhaps balancing that with a 'cooler' name might be a good idea.

Roundabout - no, not at all. I totally respect names given for reasons of cultural heritage/family history. I'm just saying *some* parents do pick names for their kid to enhance their own 'cool' factor - and may use the claim of cultural heritage/family history in order to stave off criticism.

I really like the name Alastair - it has the same feel and intellectual sensibility as Oliver but seems stronger and far less marginalized.

kristin dawn, I think this just gets back to what our core values are in naming children. I will freely admit that Julian sounds less masculine to my ears than John, Jack, Hank, Tom, etc. For that matter, William, Timothy, Philip, and Paul also sound less manly than John to me.

If masculinity was what I most valued in a male child, then I would certainly pick a name like Jack. But DH and I don't hold manliness as our highest value for boys. Intelligence, kindness, integrity, etc. are all much higher on our value scale for boys, exactly as they would be for girls. "Overly intellectual" doesn't worry us--we'd be more worried if the kid was *underly intellectual*. We'd rather they be smart, kind, and good than popular. Of course we hope they'll be popular, too, and we wouldn't want to unduly hinder them with a name like Murgatroyd--but I don't think Julian or Oliver will do that, especially not in the social/geographical circle they will be raised in. It may not fly in Fargo, but that's ok for now.

One more from me and then back to real life...anyone else find it more than a little interesting that even as some argue that names have very little influence over a person's quality of life, that so many are saying they'd be more likely to accept a drink from a man with one name over another?

Names have power. They alter others' perceptions of us. They affect our lives in ways we don't even realize.
Is it any wonder we parents put so much thought and effort into finding the perfect name??

Uh, the only way any of my kids will ever end up in a red state, or more than 10 miles from decent sushi, is if they're adults and choose it themselves (can't imagine why, but stranger things have happened). And if they're old enough to do that, they should be long past any sensitivity about teasing.

So the "what will the kids in Fargo think" standard definitely doesn't bear much weight here!

Hmm, the more we talk about Julian, the more I like it. Maybe it will go on the list.... :o)

Oh, and maybe this is the place to mention--I know lots of men who grew up in very rural America with uncommon or possibly feminine/intellectual names who did quite well:
Galen
Nathan
Blaise
Barry
Chad
Charles
Tristan

Off the top of my head.... The last one's still a child, but I can tell you that the first 6 were all uber-athletic/manly boys (football, baseball, basketball, motorcross, hunting), popular, smart, and grew up into really decent, and very masculine, men. More than a bit "too manly" for my preferences, but that's the culture they were in, and they're good guys. I don't see odd or "girly" names holding them back any.

Honestly, I don't think any of us here really think that. I agree with you. But I think the fact that we all spend so much time frequenting this board and making comments says that we all think that names have a heck of a lot to do with a person's life.

That was in response to kristen dawn's comment.

kristin dawn — absolutely — I wouldn't be interested in this site (and there wouldn't be over 200 comments and counting!) if we didn't acknowledge that we believe names have meaning and effect.

hyz's comment about choosing a name that reflects the values they hope their child will have rang so true to me. I'll have to do some pondering as to what I hope my [hypothetical] child would be like, and how I think our favourite names reflect those qualities.

Two little anecdotes:

I was talking to a very young, hip gal in a mom's group I belonged to briefly. She has a MySpace page and everything... At any rate, she has sons named Cole and Cade. I told her my sons were Jack and Henry, and she immediately said, "Oh, Cole was almost Henry."
Anecdote two:
I have a friend who has a daughter named Kennedi. Her middle name is Lucille.
My friend had Both these on her short list.
Soooo....while I agree that naming trends can vary widely from region to region, I think the old is new trend is popular in a broad enough swath of America that it would be hard to come up with an old fashioned name that would really stick out (Alistair Is stuffy to my ears, but I was forced to watch many hours of Masterpiece Theater as a child).
We do live in a Blue state on the West Coast, but our little suburb is a very typical two-Walmart kind of place.
I think parents really wanting their little one to stick out will have to start mining '50's names.
Look for little Dorothys soon!

kristin dawn, I respectfully disagree with your stance. I think everyone has different perceptions of names - and the final influence will not be the name, but rather who the person is. While some may think "Julian" is girly, others will like it for other qualities it might possess. I don't like the name "Wyatt" - it isn't my style and I don't see it as cool, but you do, and your child likes it - that's all that matters. That people like him I would think is not because of his name, but because he is a great person (and no doubt he is!)

Unless the name of a child is really out there, I doubt it will hold the child back too far. Kids will tease others kids if they want to, regardless of their names. I went to school with Iggy (nn for Ignacio, but he always went by Iggy) and he was super cool. It was a guy named Michael that got teased. I think we are putting too much store in the name. Yes, it should be a consideration, but in the grand scheme it isn't be all, end all.

Laura's book has a line about names like julian/allistair etc. being “personality multiplier" names; i.e., making a confident, popular kid more so and making a shy, meek kid more awkward; I think there's a lot of truth to that. Sure *some* boys can pull off a name like allistair, others can't.

It's a matter of personal taste sure, but it's not just *your* taste that matters. World's a big place and a person's name has a very wide audience: grandparents, friends/peers, teachers, employers, strangers. I just tend to think I owe it to my boys to give names that come off well in various contexts, not to think “well, I like julian and what other people think doesn’t matter.” Evidenced, perhaps, by my above question about patrick (thanks, btw - looks like a go there).

I'd be curious to know people's top 3 name prerequisites - my wife and I have come to value versatility, durability and maybe something akin to 'timelessness' or 'stong-rooted-ness.' Julian/sebastian advocates may have different takes?

I have just read through this entire conversation and what I concluded from is how different attitudes to names are in North America to other English speaking countries - or perhaps it is just my New Zealand English sounding ears.

Roundabout - little Alistair would fit in as a name in New Zealand, I know a number that are either my age (almost 30), my parent's age (late 50s) and a teen. The oldest uses the nn Alec, the one my age is just Alistair and the youngest is Ali (pronounced like the boxer). Scottish names are reasonably common place - my brother is Hamish, and I know a couple of others - mostly under 40. Perhaps New Zealand has more recent connections with Scotland.

One advantage with names like Michael/Andrew/Steven/Christopher/James is that your child starts with a blank slate. People don't predetermine what they are going to be like or their background from their name. In New Zealand I think that David would fit into this group too. I know at least 10 and none are Jewish.

Good question, don.

I'd say my top three would be something like:
timelessness
meaning/origin
sound

Of course, that's vague, so I'll elaborate. :)

Timelessness: I wouldn't pick a name that isn't at *least* a century old, or one that is extremely popular in the current time but wasn't at least similarly popular through history. So, no Jadens, no Jennifers.

Meaning/origin: DH and I are very nature-oriented, so we favor names with meanings that reference that. Failing that, we favor names with strong virtue meanings. Origin, we look for names that we have some cultural connection to--mostly English, Irish, Germanic.

Sound: this is the balance tipper. We may love the meaning and timelessness of George or August, but if we don't like the sound of them or they way they go with our lns, then they're out. Also, a really great "sound" will make up for a only so-so meaning (Willa, in our case).

I make the lists, and DH gets the final nix on any he doesn't like. That's our process.

My list of qualifications was something like this:

1) Sound--does the name sound good to me?
2) Associations--do I have good associations with the name? Have I ever met someone dreadful that spoils my sense of the name? Conversely, have I ever read a great book with a character with the name? This typically has an impact on my impression of the name (and tends to cut out a lot of "newer" names).
3) I'm a very visual person and the way a name is spelled matters to me. Allison and Alison are different names to me.

The meanings don't matter to me in the slightest unless they are egregious (Stone, for example). Family connections and ethnic associations didn't matter to me either. My daughter's middle name is Bronwyn even though we have no connection to Wales.

What some in this discussion seem to be ignoring is that EVERY name has some sort of connotation and will be disliked by some, especially those who (like us, obviously) really care about names. NO name is free from this, not even "average" names like Mike, etc. Some people will meet or hear of Mike, Henry, Patrick, Joseph, etc. and have a very strong negative reaction, just as some will do the same for Julian, Wyatt, Alistair, etc.

I think it comes down to which negative reaction is most acceptable to you. For some, hearing that their name is boring to one group and completely fits in with another is preferable to hearing that their name is weird to one group and stylish to another. The opposite is true for others. I know that I would rather have to spell all my kids' names (I do, and they're recently coined names) but have them be distinctive (obviously subjective, as is everything in naming) than have everyone be familiar with the name and find them ho-hum. But this is obviously not true of everyone!

As for the values that determine my name preferences:

1. Sound
2. Association
3. Uncommon-ness

I have to find a name that fits all three, so I would be very unlikely to give a child a name that I loved the sound of, but that was common or popular; I would not use a name that I loved if it had strong negative associations, and I would not use a name whose associations were great if I didn't like the sound of it. I agree with Elizabeth T. --I don't really care about original meaning, ethnicity, or family connection.

I do agree with don and my list of the top 3 prerequisites are very similar to Elizabeth T's and I'd have to add one more.

1) Sound - If I like the sound of the name, I will obviously prefer it
2) Travel - as my husband is Italian and I am American, I want names that will travel well. It's be a great pity if either set of grandparents could not pronounce the name of our choosing.
3) Spelling - I guess I'm a visual person to. If you'll remember, I was the one who was asking about the best spelling for "Lela" (that was the spelling we settled on)
4) Association - I want positive ones obviously, but I recognize that the associations I have with a name are not ones others will have.

If I were to pick a fifth, it would be popularity, but as you can all see, that is down the list.

PS - kristin dawn, I hope you were not offended by my last post. That was not my intention at all.

I'd also like to add that like Elizabeth T, I don't care about family or ethnic (my husband and I are already an interracial couple) associations.

Oh, and I should add something too. As I mentioned in one of the previous threads, heritage is particularly important to us--our children's fns will actually be Korean (like my DH), with Americal . Korean names are two syllables--the grandparent generation gets together and picks one of the syllables that will be used on every child of that generation, and the parents pick the other syllable, specific to that child. We know that the first syllable for the girls in our (future) children's generation is Young-. We don't know the boys' syllable yet, and we can't ask, because we haven't spilled the beans that we are TTC yet!

We plan to have the kids use both names somewhat, but mostly go by their American middle names.

Association is also big for DH--I luckily don't have too many negative associations with names I otherwise like.

mj--I agree with your 3:09 post--I'd rather a kid be stylish/odd than fit in/boring, if I had to pick.

oops--typo--meant to say "our children's fns will actually be Korean (like my DH), with American middle names."

It drives me nuts that we can't fix typos on this board! :o)

I stand by my previous naming-style description of "under-utilitzed classics that travel well", but if you forced me to be more specific, the following all factor into my name choices, weighted roughly equally:

-timelessness/history: Why do I think a name "made-up" in 1300 is better than one that was made up last year? Classics have stood the test of time for a reason. Will people still be naming their babies Maddissyn in 700 years? Somehow I tend to doubt it! A good classic name has the weight of history behind it.

-associations: My husband and I are Catholic, so the most important association for us is that either first or middle name needs to be a saint's name. Literal meaning is not as important to me. For instance, I love the name Cecily and do not care that it means "blind one", it's the association with St. Cecilia that counts for me.

-sound: We have to love the sound of the name and it needs to flow well with our last name

-popularity: I prefer a name that is not so popular that the

cont'd:
child is likely to have another in his/her class, but not so unusual as to leave everyone scratching their heads in disbelief.

-mobility: I googled my daughter's name the other day just for fun, and all of the sites that come up are in German--I think that's cool, but I also have a master's degree in German Studies....others may be less enthusiastic!

I may be alone on this, but I would group Patrick with Sebastian - to me, they feel similarly intellectual, and I mean that in a good way. I'm just noting this because some folks seem to see these as very different categories of names, but Patrick doesn't feel especially masculine to me, nor does Henry. Hank, certainly, but not Henry. Don't get me wrong - I very much like all three names, as well as Julian. Maybe it's the formality of the names? Who knows. Just another example of how the same name can conjure up different associations from different people.

As someone who had baby naming drive us to couples therapy I have though a lot about names! Criteria leading to naming our daughter Lucia (Lou-see-a) Sabine:

1. Honor cultural heritage/family: The fn had to be from dh's culture (he's Hispanic) and ideally both the fn and mn had cultural or family ties to one of our families
2. Little black dress/travels well: A name that will work well on a baby, teen, and professional. It should work for a Supreme Court justice or a rock star. Finally, it should work (if not perfect) in NYC, Fargo, and Paris.
3. Known but never common.
4. Sound: We needed to like the sound and how it worked with our last name.
5. Gut: In our gut we had to like it.

My three priorities were:

- family connections - whom do I need/want to honour/remember, which names fit with that
- deeper meaning - associations/meaning/coolness
- does it feel right? Do we get bored wth it?

I don't know if people will be using the spelling Madissyn in 700 years, but I think they are just as likely to be naming girls Madison then as they are to be naming girls Emma or Ella. Any name which achieves the level of use Madison has seems likely to me to be part of the "normal stock of names" for the foreseeable future. It will go in and out of fashion over the centuries just like Emma and Ella have, but will eventually come back into style because it will be in so many family trees that people will find it to be "classic" when the greatgrandchildren of today's Madisons are being born. A lot of people certainly seem to think of Hazel as a "classic" sort of revival today, and Hazel didn't exist as a girls' name until the 19th century. Its present revival is only the second time its been in frequent use in history.

I'm not particularly "advocating" Sebastian, but to me that name does meet all of the criteria of versatility, timelessness, durability, and "strong-rootedness." Opinions differ.

Oh, I forgot to mention - while I agree with don, I do want to emphasize that I while I believe you should take into account the impact your chosen name has on others, just because someone does not like it, does not mean it's a bad name. Everyone has their own tastes. My own mother hates my and my husband's choice of "Lela" for our daughter. I think I'm not alone in saying, "You can't please everyone." And remember, names aren't forever - they can be changed and have been many many times throughout history.

complete change in topic but one of my high school students said a funny thing today. He said that he (who knew high school boys even thought about this?) would name his future children Ava (which happens to be his dog's name) and/or Landon.

C & C's Mom, that is kind of funny... I do remember thinking about what I would name my future children when I was that young... in fact, I remember a list I came up with sometime around 1997 or 1998, when I would have been 13 or 14. It included the names Charlotte, Olivia, Jamie, Jillian, and Rosalie for girls, among a few others... which now strikes me as a really funny mix! I also remember having a conversation with my brother at one point -- probably around that same year, when I was 13 and he would have been 16 -- where he and I realized that we both had the same name in mind for a boy. The name? Michael. Absolutely standard 80s stock. There were probably about 10 boys in my grade in elementary school named Michael, but I thought it was the most beautiful name (even though I disliked all of them)! Anyway, not to knock Michael, but I certainly wouldn't chose any of those names now. Seems very funny in retrospect!

Oh, and I'll just add: Rosalie was the name of a good friend's mother, which I suppose sounded exciting to me because I had never heard of it before. Charlotte and Olivia were two girls I knew who were my age, and I thought their names were incredibly romantic and exotic (in a Hollywood kind of way)... they were the only people I had ever known with those names (other than movie stars) up until 2003! Jamie is pretty standard for my generation, but I'm not really sure what turned me on to Jillian. It's certainly amusing to imagine Charlotte and Olivia as rare names, nowadays!

Thanks Eo, I rather like Midge but unfortunately I had a cat during my teens named Midgey (from Midget as she was very tiny when I got her) so it never surfaced for me :-) Maisy I cannot see on me, sorry!

Julian vs. Julius - any comments?