The Baby Name Wizard

Joy,
What about Nora as a nn? Nora Morrison is very melodic and I like it, but I bet it would be a pain for your little girl sometime in her life. What about Eleanor or any variation of it? I really like Sadie but for me personally it seems like it should be a nn....But I like it and I don't know what I would suggest as a "real" name.

Sadie could be a nn for Sayward, but that doesn't seem like the style you're going for...

Android, humanoid, mechanoid...the suffix -oid definitely has that futuristic robot-y feel to it.

It seems to me that more than one social subgroup is following the old-name revival. One seems to be upper middle class, favoring classic names as a visible rejection of pop culture values, among other reasons. But the other is a group of alt-rock/Goth/skateboard types who are deliberately picking the oldest, weirdest retro names to prove how counterculture they are.
I know of three couples, with little Chester, Abner, and Abraham (I really hesitate to list these). All the dads are skaters, and friends. They think they are out-cooling the others. Now one of the girlfriends is preggie again and believe me, I am not going to mention either Bertha or Murgatroyd in any conversation with anyone who knows any of these people.

About Sadie. Am I the only one that immediately thinks "sadist"?

(And if so, what does that say about me???)

Let's not make Antonina identify herself or not. Rather, let's just reread the postings.

I've got to say, I like Abraham. To me, a person who would name their child Abraham is probably not going to go for Murgatroyd.

I've got the Oxford English Dictionary of Names at home, and one of the boys' names listed is Ughtred. I may have the spelling wrong. According to the dictionary, Ughtred is a fairly uncommon (I should hope so!)boys' name, except among one specific British family whose last name escapes me. As much as I try to be open-minded about names and the different choices people make, I would hate to have to name my son Ughtred the 17th simply because of the family history. Do you suppose they go by Uggie, or something unrelated, like Bert?

Though, I suppose the family is old and has money and perhaps a castle, which might be nice for little Uggie :)

I like Nora Morrison, though I might lean toward Eleanor as suggested. Claire is a great option, too.

Meg - maybe that's why I've always been a little uncomfortable with Sadie. Hadn't put my finger on it until now...

My high school students at a (very) small private school: Maggie, Alyssa, Council, Philip, David, Joshua, Sam

pretty normal

My son's preschool class: Angelina, Natalie, Taylor, Coby, Tylee, Patrick, Michael, Zackary, Nicholas, Stephen

again, pretty normal

Thanks for the input. We would consider Eleanor, but that's our cat's name. (I actually really like the names of a couple of pets I've had in the past- we need to be more careful about naming them so we leave our options open for future children!) I like the idea of using Nora as a nn, but I can't think of any other name that it might be a nn for. The association of Sadie with sadist never occurred to me... That's something to think about. Although I doubt that kids would make that association.

Honor, Honore or Honora for Nora?

Or maybe Nola for a similar sound as Nora, but different enough to avoid the rhyming with the ln issue.

I teach a Sunday school class of sixth and seventh graders and these are their names:
Ezra, Hannah, Benjamin, Richard, Lauren, Matt, Julia, Naomi, Sylvie, Alec, Andrew, Gabriel, and Asher. Once I thought about it, I was shocked at how many of these are biblical names!

Council? That's a new one for me.

Council is his mom's maiden name. pretty common naming style around here.

Re: Murgie -- I never thought of how similar it is to Fergie, the singer. It cannot be possible that this name is growing on me.

I am from Michigan.

I mentioned above that I like Sadie but it makes me think of a poodle that one of my friends had when we were kids. She was a good pup.

Joy, I don't know of a specific web page-- I am sure someone would know-- but there has to be a place out there where you can search baby names by the letters in the name. For example search for girls names containing -nor

Hi! It seems like I've found some kind of coven of name gurus so I'd like to ask for help. we have dd 8 yrs old named Grace Ashley and now we're expecting a boy. the only name dh will suggest is Rufus (for the girl it was Buffy), so pretty much its up to me. I don't like anything! Boys names all seem either boring or wimpy or weird to me. I kinda like Noah and Isaac, but they seem too, you know, long white beardish or something. Anybody wanna name my kid?

There's a Miss Murgatroyd in an Agatha Christie story, just seen a description on Amazon of the character as an 'old-style lesbian'. Think hearty tweeds and stout shoes, which I think rather suits the name. My money's on Agatha for the next one.

NeedHelp, when you mention Grace, Noah, and Isaac, I start to think along the lines of Biblical/Christian names. Is that sort of your style? I really like Noah and Isaac, and I don't think of either one as being long-white-beardish... they're both pretty popular nowadays! I guess these are maybe too "boring" for you, but I love David and Benjamin. What about Solomon, Simon, or Lucas? Jacob is terribly popular, but if that doesn't bother you, I think it's a great choice. Maybe Gabriel or Aaron? Jonas? Elias or Eli? Oh, I know... how about Noel?! That's a personal favorite, and a great alternative to Noah. Noah could even be his nn. if he didn't love Noel.

Drina, Agatha seems way too normal next to Murgatroyd! I have to say, Murgatroyd is shocking to me as a name for a human. I can't imagine how I would react if a friend named her/his daughter Murgatroyd. That's a whole, whole lot worse than Bertha, in my mind.

I had a great-great aunt (my grandfather's aunt). She was born in the 1880s and her first name was Wealthy and her middle name was Patience.
My grandparents used to joke that she wasn't really wealthy and she certainly wasn't patient.

Oh yes, Murgatroyd is certainly worse than Bertha. Actually, it makes Bertha, Eunice, et al, sound just as light and beautiful as sunshine. Shoot, it makes Mildred sound melodic (to me). Hopefully, it'll have a positive boy-named-sue effect or something on the poor girl. Maybe she could go by her initials?
NeedHelp - I second the Eli suggestion. I've always liked that name and I can see Eli being Grace's brother.

Eli is a cool name, and its one of dh's fav football players, Eli Manning.
LKB - I never really thought about the names being Bible names, I just thought they were masculine and a little different. when I had Grace I didn't realize it was such a popular name. She's never been in class with another but there are a bunch of them at her school. I guess i don't want to have the same thing happen with my son. I think Lucas is pretty cool, too.
What do people think of Cooper, Archer, and those kind of names?
Oh, and I'm sorry, but Noel seems like a girls name to me, but it is nice sounding.

NeedHelp- what do you have against Rufus as a name? I really like it!

Meg, no, I don't think "sadist," but Sadie is always a Beatles' song about "Sexy Sadie," so it's disconcerting to see it rising and meet little babies with the name.

Kelly: there was something distantly fmailiar about your "Teel, Mary Mac, Mary Bass, Hill, etc" list. Late last night/very early this morning while i was feedin gmy baby I realized what it was. Have you ever read *Christy* by Catherine Marshall? ahh...

Murgie... O Antonina, please dont name your baby that. Of course, it is your baby and you may name as you like.

So do I-- like Rufus, I mean. Ditto Eli and Elias.

Could not WAIT to enter the following in the one-hit wonder list, except there are/were at least four others with the same name. Harpers' Bazaar has one of those wish-fulfillment articles on glamorous mothers, and one of them is Celerie Kemble, New York designer. Her infant offspring is:

'Ravenel "Rascal" Boykin Curry V'! Yes, "V"! His dad is IV.

How amusing that, ever the clever designer, Celerie has provided little Ravenal with a built-in nickname, albeit one it might be all too easy to live up to. I can't wait to style my little guy 'Benjamin "Banks" Hugh Perry Osborne Lastname No-number' at the next playground confab...

Another mother had two little tykes "Heathcliff" and "Titus". Unmistakably British, of course. I quite like Titus.

To me, Rufus just sounds like doofus. Worse, it makes me think of roofies (date rape drugs). Rufus Wainwright (sp?) has probably bettered the image of the name, but it's still not my cup of tea. Just sounds silly to me.

Re: Cooper, Archer, and the like. Those really aren't my style, but I think Cooper is one of the better ones. I just really don't like the surname as first name trend... the Hayward mentioned above made me cringe! Archer... it just conjures up a clear image in my head of a guy shooting a bow and arrow. It sounds very "I am a preppy, aristocratic white man from Connecticut, watch my biceps bulge as I shoot 5 bullseyes in row." Sorry if that was harsh! That's what comes to mind, but that said, I'm sure if I met a sweet little boy named Archer, that image would fade away in a minute.

I'm really amazed by all the associations people have w/ Sadie! It was my mother's name, and no one ever, ever, thought of it as a nn. Nor did anyone ever make the sadist connection--and she certainly would have told us that...she really disliked her name. Because it was HER name, and no one in my generation (60ish) or my daughters' is named that, it's still a bit of a shock when I come across a little girl named Sadie.
Also, her Hebrew name was Sarah, and my oldest niece, Sara, is named for her. When my sister chose the name, it was just before the big jump in popularity of the old Biblical names, and she was concerned that Sara Veryjewishlastname would sound too much like someone's grandmother! It would never have dawned on her, in 1981,to use the name Sadie.

NeedHelp! -- I so empathize. My dh's suggestion so far--Orson. When I said I kind of liked it he said he was kidding. When I finally convinced him to be serious he just said he doesn't like the classic 70's names we grew up with. So I guess so long as he doesn't hate what I come up with, I'm the one doing the naming. Yay ... love the participation ;P

As for Noah and Isaac, I think you'd be surprised how popular these names are becoming. I think either in this thread or the last one, somebody listed grade schooler names in their class. I believe those lists had a Noah or Isaac or two on there. The other similar biblical based names are also a good bet right now. Popular enough to fit in but not necessarily half the boys in the class with the same name kind of thing.

RE Sadie: reminds me of an incredibly annoying cocker spaniel dog belonging to my high school PE teacher. The name might be nice, but the associations ...

Back from my Great Lakes holiday.

Re: Sadie. The Beatles "Sexy Sadie" is exactly why my husband would not even consider it for any of our girls. I must say that I prefer it as a nickname only though. To me, Sadie is to Sarah as Katie is to Katherine.

Re: Patience. I met twins named Lilah and Patience while shopping at Old Navy months ago. Patience was screaming her head off. Rather amusing at the time, but that is exactly why "word" names scare me.

RE: Ravenel V. Now, I've read and heard that unless you're a king or queen, only as many numbers as people are living with the name should be used. In other words, once the eldest passes away, everyone jumps up a notch. Judith Martin says to do otherwise is pretentious. Is "Rascal"'s great-great-grandfather still alive? I doubt it.
NeedHelp - Hmmm, maybe Rufus as a mn, that can be used among family? I think Rufus the Doofus is just too easy a shot...
Hasn't Cooper been used as a girl's name a lot lately? What about Archibald, with Arch or Archer as nns?

If Murgatroyd really is not-Bertha, I say you cut these people off. I'm only sort of joking. Do they have any redeeming qualities? Let's all quick think of a better nickname that you can start calling little Murgie. How about Torie, Meg, or Greta? Just keeping doing it insistently.
Baby Morrison-I love Nora and Claire, and I like Sadie. I don't associate Sadie with sadist, and I can promise kids won't. It does have a bit of the "dog name," about it. Claire is quite popular in my circle. I suppose you could do Noreen/Nora or Fiona/Nona or Finola/Nola.
Nora Morrison is lovely, though.
Needs Help-I love Eli to go with Grace. How about Jonah or Jonas?
I like both Cooper and Archer, but I think they have a very different feel, maybe because Archie seems like the natural nn for Archer. I'd put Cooper with names like Hunter, Tate, Max, and Jackson.
I'd put Archer with Owen, Elliot, Emmett, and Oliver.
That's just me, though...
Maybe you could share a little more about the qualities you're looking for.

This is a heated blog this week. It seems that we are talking about people being judged by their names, which is inevitable. We all make snap decisions based on little information.
I grew up with a name that was uncommon at the time and became very popular when I was in middle school. Despite having a PhD, people still report having had low expectations of me when they first glanced at the name on the top of my resume. It has not been helpful. There is also research that shows that the same exact resume gets more call backs when the name on the header sounds white. I have concerns that some names make it harder for a child to be taken seriously.

Well, when I mentioned Archer to dh, he just said he prefered Footsoldier. boy, Archibald sounds like Murgatroyd's brother to me! what if people called him baldy? and I just would never EVER use Rufus, like someone said, Roofie. What if he became a frat boy someday?
So, Kimberely, do you mind if I "take" Orson? i kinda like it!
I didn't even think about Cooper being a lastname, i was just thinking of Cooper Manning, Arhie Manning's oldest son (which is also why i thought of Archer). and is it bad to pick a name b/c a sports figure uses it? what about Knute and Larry? Are those any good?

J&h'smom - I just want a name that sounds manly, but not stuffy, and that isn't too, too popular. also, I like names that aren't too easily turned into nicknames.

I love the idea of Honora, nn Nora.
What do people think of the name Honor or Honora? I've always liked it, but have never met one personally. Would anyone care to offer opinions?

On the nn Sadie: possibly a cute nickname for Isadora!

On Archer: while disliking *in general* the surname trend (with exceptions, especially for certain names, especially when a family name of significance to the parents is being kept alive) I find Archer is one of my favored exceptions, perhaps because I think of it as not only a surname, but also "one who practices archery"?

I tend to hear it as a more intellectual and genteel (maybe this comes from Newland Archer from Age of Innocence . . .) name along the lines of Jasper and Sebastian.

While I understand that Archer (and the image of a bowman) could be seen as a hyper-masculine, I don't get that from the name. Another reason could be that the Archer I know has siblings Louisa and Miles, and that context softens and makes the name sound more antiquated (although no less WASPy

NeedHelp: By all means, I think Orson will still be rare enough that I'll somehow survive ;) My current list is Emmett, Everett, Orson, and Felix with Rowan, Archer, and Dashiell when I'm feeling daring and William and Thomas (family names) for when I'm feeling conservative. I have no idea what we'll finally decide. At least I have more than four months to make up my mind.

On sports figures, I don't think that's any better or worse than any other source with the caveat that you might want to avoid "brand" names like Tiger that are instantly associated with that one person. At least that's my take on things.

Eleni,

Archer always brings to mind Newlad Archer for me, too, but that's a good association.

On Honora--I think of Jeeves and Wooster, although I think that woman was named Honoria. She wasn't a particularly positive Wodehouse woman (are there any?).

Wow, I had all this anticipation as to what the name was going to be, but was definitely not expecting murgatroyd! I'm still hoping you're kidding, "Antonina." Tell me there's not a girl wandering around with that name...

I agree about Noah behind a bit too popular, which makes me sad, because it's one of my favorite names for a boy. Sigh.

As for Sadie, I always think of a little dog my aunt & uncle had when I was a kid. Very cute name, though. (She was a cute pup!)

BTW, glad the discussion has gotten more friendly, I was getting a little nervous there for a while. My favorite thing about this board is how many opinions are freely given as well as respected. :)

What do you all think about Jesse for a boy's name? How do you think it fits into the trends? It's biblical and a classic, but there is the feminine nn "Jessie" and it's variations. Do you think it will make a comeback or will remain a known but relatively rarer biblical name?

I saw a Wrede on a list today... I'm assuming that would be pronounced Reed. Anyone ever heard of that one?

I really like Everett and most of the others on your list, Kimberley. Minus Archer. Orson is starting to grow on me, but it seems like a name a kid would need to grow into, and I can't think of a good nn. for it. (Sonny? Ron? Oreo?!)

Honor/Honora, I don't love. I like Eleanor(a) much better, or Lenore/Lenora, or Leonora. Or just Nora! I've always loved my name.

I guess I put Honor in with the Faith/Hope names, but it seems like a much more serious one. Something that's hard to live up to, whereas Faith/Hope feel more natural and light to me. Honor sounds very puritanical to my ear. Rigid, old fashioned, a little stuffy, with a tinge of religious undertone. In my head, it's closer to Chastity than Hope! I really liked the suggestion of Nola as an alternative to Nora. I also like Nara. Q: I love the name Nala, but can it ever be seen as anything (in the US) besides the Lion King character?

sorry for the bad grammar - meant "its"

Regarding Honora: it instantly brings to my mind Honor Harrington, the larger-than-life heroine of the space opera series by David Weber. I don't think I'd ever encountered it as a woman's name before that. You could definitely do worse for name associations. I'm not sure I'd name my daughter Honor, but I might consider it.

Nora: thanks :) ... sometimes I like Archer and sometimes it seems too "trade-namey" for me. We'll see what I think a few weeks from now.

As for a nn for Orson, I'd probably use Sonny. I actually had a foster brother called Sonny so it seems like a natural little boy nn. Now Everett and Emmett have me stumped for nn's.

Lainey, I think Jesse has been not-so-rare for a while now. In the 80/90s, it was over 2,300 per million, and now it's still over 1,000 per million. I think it's a pretty standard biblical male name, although not as much the rage as Jacob and the others. I definitely see/hear it as very masculine, and I've known a few male Jesse-s in my lifetime, none seemed to have a problem with his name. I'm not sure if it will get more or less popular from here, but it hasn't dropped out of the top 1000 names in this century, so I think it will be around for a while yet.

sorry, that comment above should have been addressed to Lili, not Lainey.

Thanks for your insights!

I knew a girl in grade school named Honora. As a kid, I never even made a connection to the word "Honor", because her name was pronounced so differently: Huh-NOR-ah.

I didn't know her that well, but she was generally pleasant, kind, quiet (bookish, maybe?), and really nice! You hereby can count one positive association point for the name!

Hmm, every guy I've known named Jesse has been extremely popular socially. Just a flirty, fun, typically attractive guy! But then they've known this about themselves so been a bit arrogant and jerky. just my experience!

Rhea - Thanks for your input. I know I didn't get this across, but it isn't teasing that is the problem with unpopular names, it is the immediate gut judgements that people make on a subconscious level.

With children, it comes down to a feeling of 'one of us' or 'not one of us' and I truly believe that kids are set into their social strata very early on, and short of spectacular achievements or great physical beauty, your social role can be nearly impossible to snap out of.

BTW - I think Rhea has a beautiful sound to it. Have you ever considered spelling it Ria? Not that you should have to, but it does have a more modern feel to it.

Congrats on the PhD! That is a truly spectacular achievement!