The Baby Name Wizard

Dorothy, that's funny, most of the Jesses I've known would fit that description!

On Honora, I hadn't thought of the various pronunciations. I would say "uh-NOR-ah," without the hard H. I like it much less with the hard H in front, and I wouldn't like it as much if it were "AHN-or-ah" either. Now I'm wondering what the most standard pronunciation is... anyone?

Wait, scratch that. I just thought of a man named Jesse whom I went to college with... one of the sweetest guys I've ever known. Intelligent, thoughtful, free-spirited, honest, kind. A little bit awkward/geeky, in a very endearing and self-aware sort of way. Definitely qualities I see as desirable. The more I think about him, the more I remember how much I like the name!

Geesh, I think we're getting boiled frog syndrome - we've been talking about these names so much they're starting to sound good to us??

Needhelp - Have you considered Royce instead of Orson? Or Lowell is similar to Noel, but 'studlier'. To me, Orson is not good. There are too many neg. connotations and it just has a heavy feel to it. I also like Everett and Jonas a lot, along with Trent.

I am in the minority here, but I love the surnames as first names - you can pick a name that is familiar to people and is easy to spell, but is still fresh and unique. Gibson and Keller are on my short list for a boy.

I love the name Honor so much! I'm glad others are liking it too - it doesn't go with my ln so I can't use it. I think it's going to be big in the next couple of years.

My friend has a dog called Sadie...and she is absolutely the smartest, coolest dog ever. She should be studied by scientists. A kid would be lucky to be named after Sadie!

On the topic of Worthy, Profit, and Wealthy, has anyone heard of the girl's name Merit, or Merritt?

Kristin Dawn - I know a 2 yr old named Merritt. I love it! I think Merritt seems more like a surname and Merit seems more like it fits in with Worthy, Profit, etc. Even though they sound the same!

I really like surnames as first names as well (my own dd is Campbell), but where I live it is very common for boys and girls to be given a last name as a first name. It is usually mom's maiden name or a last name from a bit further back in the family tree. those names sound perfectly "normal" to me.

I love Campbell too! What do you think of Deegan - that is my mil's maiden name and I adore her and would love to honor her in that way, but her name is awful - she would agree with me.

Sorry, that should say her *first* name is awful! Ok, I'm going away now.

mj: Yep, the PG Wodehouse character is Honoria, not Honora, Glossop. There are definitely positive Wodehouse women, but they tend to have names like Sally, Susan, Jill... oh, and Bertie Wooster's Aunt Dahlia.

I should have said "Sally, Sue, Jill" - I think Susan would be too formal for a Wodehouse heroine. Though there's one called Maud.

kristin dawn--my gdtr's bff has a cousin named Merritt--I think she's about 8. I never thought of it a sounding like the word merit. My daughter knew a family whose sons were Profit, Commerce, and Gains! One might not have been too bad, but when you hear them all together...(:P)
Although maybe their parents are on to something--did anyone else catch the recent news story re people's names influencing where they live or what they do? E.g., high numbers of women named Georgia or Virginia living in those states, regardless of where they came from originally; unusually high numbers of dentists named Dennis or similar...

Penn--"Possession" is one of my favorite novels, too. And I like the name Maud because of it. On one of my trips to the UK, I used the book as a guide and tracked down the exact
locations of some of the scenes.

Nora--I do know a Nala, but she's Egyptian by birth and probably in her 40s--well pre-Lion King. And people do associate her name w/ the movie. It's a beautiful name, though!

Re Nora, Eleanor, Honora, Nola, etc. There's Lady Glencora Palliser, from the Trollope novels...
and Nymphadora Tonks...

My mother would have gotten a huge kick out of all the dogs named Sadie!

I've heard of Merit, and I like it, kind of.

Glad to hear some people are into the name Honor/Honora. I know it won't be everyone's cup of tea . . . I think I like very serious names, bookish even. But now I'm perplexed about pronunciation . . . I'd always believed it would be pronounced like the word. Hmmm.

Re Orson: I'm not aware of negative connotations? I kind of like Lowell. You know, I can't believe I'm saying this, but (judiciously chosen) surnames are starting to grow on me!

It's really funny to me that so many people have known dogs named Sadie- I've never met a dog named Sadie, but I actually met 2 different dogs named Nora recently. I actually kind of got afraid that Nora had become a dog name.

I really like Jesse for a boy - have a close friend with that name, and he's all the things that previous posters have noted!
Okay, another name (for a boy this time) that I'd love to hear feedback on: Kane?

Fanny Brice (way before the time of most of the posters here...way before my time, for that matter) sang a song called "Sadie, Sadie, Married Lady." Barbra Streisand sings it in "Funny Girl," which is, of course, about Fanny Brice.
A little different from the Beatles' "Sexy Sadie."

Eleni--
First thing I thought of was Citizen Kane. Second thing was Cain and Abel.
I love your name, though...always have. Do you know the book, "Eleni," by Nicholas Gage, about his mother?

I can't believe how many dogs named Sadie have been mentioned on this post. I'm not a dog person and I don't know many dogs, but I've met one dog in the past year, and you can guess what her name was! A beautiful golden retriever, and Sadie seemed to fit her. Isn't the general idea that people are naming pets things they want to "try out," so popular dog/cat names tend be ahead of the curve for human names? Meaning, isn't Sadie still getting more popular? If you take away the "Fluffy" and "Buddy" type names, it seems that popular dog and cat names become trendy human names soon/concurrently(?)... Perhaps people are paying more attention to Nora, therefore using it as a dog name and considering it for children. Just a guess. Or maybe it was a complete coincidence that you met two dogs named Nora. It doesn't seem to be a coincidence, however, that we all seem to know a dog or two named Sadie.

Seems there have been a few songs about Sadies. The one I think of is "Sadie the cleaning lady". It must have been Australian, since no-one else seems to remember it.

Orson Welles, even though he may no longer be in the front of the public consciousness, brings to mind gluttony and moral corruption. Kind of like Bertha, even though we don't remember the reason why, the gut reaction to the name lives on.

Orson also makes me think of Orwellian, William Randolph Hearst, and as Arlene F said, Cain and Abel.

Also, Orson is a big LDS name and Orson Pratt is a huge figure in LDS history. (That's why Orson Scott Card is Orson Scott Card). Lots of LDS Boys are named Orson and then use their more popular middle names for every day.

It depends on how you feel about the LDS church, but many people consider it an evil cult, so if a person felt that way I don't think they'd want to call their son Orson, because everyone you meet who knows anything about the church history will assume your family is LDS.

BTW - Orson Pratt is actually a pretty amazing guy, and it is his birthday today!

I know two couples with babies named Honor.The first also has a Liberty, which I think gets a little silly, and the other Honor (newborn) has an older sister Isabel. I wouldn't choose it, but it does have positive connotations for me, as I knew an Honor once who was incredibly courageous.

Does anyone know what happened to bnabbt? I can't find it at .net or at .com. Thanks! (Baby's Named a Bad, Bad Thing)

For what it's worth, I love Honora, and Meritt too, though both are a lot to live up to. They have a lovely Puritan ring to them, and I mean that in a good way.

I have had only one male college student named Jesse in almost 15 years of teaching, and he looked, on the surface, like the flirty self-assured class-clown type. When I got to know him better it became clear that that was all a huge game designed to cover up the fact that his abusive parents had interfered with his schooling. That humbled me right up as a teacher -- but it's always left the name seeming very sweet to me.

I like last names as first names ONLY if they are last names from within the child's family. Otherwise they feel pretentious to me, like borrowing some kind of waspy prestige. A lovely last name in my family was Ashton, but it's ruined now by Ashton Kutcher, alas.

Murgatroyd. Now that's cruel. I hope it's a hoax post. Or that someone stages an intervention with those parents.

Eleni - How do you feel about the name Foster?

baby's named a bad bad thing is at:
notwithoutmyhandbag.com/babynames

I've asked tons of people and none of them thought of Orson as a Mormon name, but i'm from the south and live in the midwest and none of us have ever known very many of them.
My maiden name is Cook. That would be pretty silly as a first name, huh? Other last names in our family: Gates, Colson, Vance.
Colson sounds like a real name to me, any thoughts?
btw, I think Honor/ia are all very pretty.

Arlene F: thank you! No, I've never read "Eleni." In my case, Eleni is a nn for Elena, but I know it's the Greek form of the name.

Valerie: I'm suprised to hear that there are little Honors out there! I wonder why I've never met a single soul called any variation of the name. How are these parents pronouncing the name, may I ask?
I agree with you: Honor and Liberty are an excellent example of how the second child's name can make both sound silly when it is too matchy or themed. However, I like the sound of Isabel and Honor. That's a nice pairing.

Kristin dawn: I don't love the name Foster . . . I think the kind of surames I like (again, not crazy about the surname thing) are those that sound as though they could be first names, if that makes any sense. Names like Meritt, Marlowe, Kane, Archer, Lowell and Emerson all seem to make an easy transition to first name status without sounding (to my ears) too pretentious.

And of course, family names are always legit, even if they're a little odd. It's a nice sentiment

Well, if you ever move to the West, you'll meet plenty - my (public) high school had a LDS school built right in and the LDS kids would go to seminary in the morning before school started.

It may be the kind of thing we were talking about with Asher and Aviva - depending on where you live, it may or may not be a name you feel comfortable in giving. My concern would be if a child decided to go to school in a different part of the country and then ran into problems, but maybe I'm overanalyzing.

Eleni - I thought you might have been going for something particular there with Orson and Kane and thought Foster might be a compromise...but maybe not?

Kristin Dawn, not overanalyzing. That's why this website is so cool. We can get to know why certain names have meaning to certain groups (religious or cultural) and then not be so ignorant when we choose that name for our child. I would not want to name my daughter some made up name that means vagina in Japanese or whatever. (Manko) I would hope someone on here would point that out to me.

Since my child will have to live in the world (and who knows where he will travel) I wouldn't want to give him a too Mormon name either. Since I'm not mormon.

Anyway, when Help Me posted about liking Noah and Issac I bristled since those are the only two boy names *I* like too. Jonah and Elias are ok, as is Josiah, but those two are my favorites!

Guess I'm pretty trendy when it comes down to it!

Liz & Louka - the song you are referring to is by John Farnham 'Sadie the cleaning lady'. Aussies and Kiwis would know it, although it's 30 odd years old now so I doubt it would be a big association. Sadie Frost seems to be the biggest association for me. Interestingly I've known heaps of Sarahs/Saras and none have ever gone by Sadie.

Murgatroyd is the worst name ever, but I'm pleased Antonina could share that with us, I think it surpasses everyones expectations.

Thanks for all the comments about Jesse! Merritt makes me think of the highway in New York that I *think* is spelled the same. It is a very convenient way of avoiding New York City! I don't much like Honor as a name, and I don't really like Faith either -- imagine how the child will feel at moments when she doesn't act with honor or struggles with faith. I wonder if she'd feel even worse because of the power of her name. Other names - like Hope - seem more benign, to me though.

When I think of Honora I think -- Honora brand pearls. Honoria looks pretty but if it is pronounced the way I think it would be On-OR-ee-a it would be WAY WAY to close to gonorrhea....YIPES!

Yeah, I was going to say, my first attempt at pronunciation on Honoria would be ah-or-EE-a, rhyming with gonorrhea. even if most people read it the other way, i wouldn't want that mistake coming up all the time. Honora is much better.

LKB and Phillippa-
The name Makz is pronounced the same way as Max-and I tripped over the spelling many times at the beginning of the year! The funny thing was the first time I met his mother she immediately apologised for the spelling-apparently it is a Dutch spelling however I have never some across this... His mother attributed the choice to too many drugs during labour! Baby namers remorse, perhaps?

A horrible thing to admit, but has anyone regretted the name they chose for their child? I know my sil regrets her decision to play it safe and give her child a 'normal name' and use the more exotic name (her words) as her daughters middle name.

Don't assume all teachers read their rolls the same way. I pore through a new class list HOPING to see an Ursula or a Dimir; I look forward to meeting them, and I generally assume they have interesting stories and parents I'd like to meet. The Emmas and Jacks, I'm sure they're lovely children (all my students are lovely), but I've met dozens of Emmas and Jacks before, so their names don't excite my imagination so much.

Oh, and if I saw Orson--I wouldn't assume LDS, I'd assume movie buffs. But I live in Los Angeles! I like the name Orson, I'd hear it in the same realm as Orwell, Oregon, Orlando, Orion, Yorick...

Wow, Louise, it makes me sad that this mother felt she had to apologize for the spelling of her son's name. Very sad. But it just seems so silly -- if you don't like the spelling you gave him (particularly if you attribute it to too many drugs during labor), why wouldn't you have his name legally changed after he was born? Before he even knew how to write/read? Even changing it at age 5 would seem appropriate (not the pronunciation but the spelling) if there were a real reason. I think having a kid go through life as Makz in an English speaking country is reason enough if the parents don't even like the spelling! If the mother has to apologize, think what the poor kid will feel.

Also-
LKB
Re: Buster, he is the first one I have ever known (besides my neighbour's dog!) and in my part of Australia it is definately rare. His parents however are from the U.S., are rather alternative and named him after Buster Keaton the silent film actor. I always like to know the background of the name from the parents!

For those interested, Buster's sister is Tansey.

NeedHelp: I like Vance too! It's a nice variation of Vince but I think I like it more than Vince. Plus it's in your family!

Regarding parents regretting a name choice, I encountered a mother with a toddler in a store a few months ago.

The toddler was dressed in brown corduroys and a brown sweater, and I assumed the child was a boy. Just to make casual conversation I said something like, "He's adorable, what's his name?" This is a very common conversation opener between strange parents in stores in my experience -- I've asked and been asked this question countless times.

The mother thanked me but looked embarassed, and said, "actually, she's a girl." I apologized, and she continued, looking even more abashed, "You're going to laugh at her name," she said, "It's Ryan."

The mother's assumption that I'd laugh (I didn't!), made me think this happens to her a lot.

I don't know if she regretted the name choice, but her response made me wonder if she had not expected to share (and maybe explain) her child's name every day in the course of light conversation with strangers.

is it just me, or does Tansey make you think of pansy? interesting that they chose Buster after the actor... was that Buster Keaton's real name or a nn./stage-name? that doesn't really change my impression of it though! still sounds more like a pet's name to me, or a cartoon character, or a superhero or something.

re: Vance. I've only known one, and he was southern and Black, and quiet, thoughtful and sweet. since I had never heard the name before or since, that's the association I have. I don't think I it sounds like a Black name, really, but it does still sound southern and/or western to me. I think if I hadn't known Vance, I would have thought of it as more of a cold name, but I get a warm, sort of antique-y feel from it now. Very dignified. I could see it fitting in well with Landon, Archer, Orson, and even Keller, as varied as all of those names are. I don't think I could see Landon and Orson as brothers, but I could see Landon and Vance or Orson and Vance. Same with Archer and Keller.

LKB
I have to agree with you-I was sad that she felt she needed to apologise about the name although she said it in a joking-but-serious way. And it wasn't that I had commented on the name or made any reference to it at all! I agree that she should have changed it if she felt this strongly.

Teacher T-I will admit to scouring class lists for interesting names and I am always that little bit disappointed when there are 2 or 3 of the name in may class! Downside to teaching? Names I have loved have been wrecked by teaching not nice children with that name.

I feel as though the name Sadie is a really Australian sounding name, as 'Aussie' as Matilda (as in Waltzing Matilda) *because* of the John Farnham connection.
I understand that it is not of course exclusively Australian though-neither is Matilda for that matter! But it does have some patriotic vibes to my ears.

Nora, Tansey makes me think of Tansey who blogs here! But prior to that, my mind said 'Pansy' right away!

Buster Keaton was born Joseph Francis Keaton Jr. but was credited as 'Buster' through most of his career. Knowing that he was an actor didn't really change my impression of the name either, but it did give me some insight into the parents naming style which I am facinated by.

Just an aside, I once overheard his mother calling him by a nn-Busty. At first it sounded fine but as it sunk in I just thought Busty? Not a great nn for a 6 year old... at least he doesn't know what it means! Maybe it is along the same lines as Rusty?

on Ryan: It makes me sad that the mother thought you'd laugh! Maybe when she named her daughter Ryan, she assumed Ryan would be a girly girl & now that the child is choosing boyish clothes, she's more uncomfortable with the name? If the mother is still choosing her clothes, it's unfortunate that she's had a rough time explaining the name. Then again, maybe the fact that you mistook her girl for a boy just threw her off! I grew up as a girl with a boy's name (one very rare for girls), & my parents never hesitated in their choice. They didn't explain to strangers that it was odd or funny. They just told people my name & didn't explain anything. I've always been comfortable in my name and never once felt the need to "explain" it. My fear is that when the parents are uncomfortable, the child will more likely be uncomfortable in the name. It would pain me to see my parents "excuse" my name. It feels great to know they chose what was most beautiful to their ears. That's what's most important to me in naming!

Oh, I like Vance, too. Besides being a twist on Vince, it's a twist on Lance. Since it's a family name for you, NeedHelp, I'd say go for it! Colson fits with more current trends, though, if that's what you're comfortable with (Colt, Colton, the -son ending).
I've always felt parents regret their choice when the say, "this is my child So-n-so, it's a family name." As though they immediately want to validate the name.
As far as naming a kid Buster after Buster Keaton - well, I love the Marx Brothers, but we opted to name our cat Groucho instead of using it for a child. Maybe our som could be Chico?

I like Vance too. Mainly because I like the nn Van.

About Ryan, I like Ryan as a girls name or a boys name. Honestly if I were going to choose it I could choose it for a girl.

Speaking of Ryan, I went to college with a girl named Kyle, which was terribly confusing for me since I'd only ever encountered it as a boy's name before. I kept thinking maybe it was a nickname but, nope, it was her given name.
I have name regret with our dog! He's named Toby but the other day dh and I were talking and realized that, given his personality, the perfect name would have been Herbie...cos he's a love bug. And he looks like a Herbie. But I'm not going to change the poor thing's name. Maybe we'll keep Herbie in reserve for a future dog, who given Murphy's law will probably not be much of a snuggler!

What do people think of the name John? I know it's a little boring, but I don't know ANY little boys named John, and it seems like a very safe name. No one will roll their eyes or anything and it actually seems not as common as it used to be. I'm pretty excited about it, but if it's out of style for a good reason, I don't want to use it.
Eli, John, and Vance are the front runners for me right now.

NeedHelp:
I really like John. It sounds wonderful with Grace, too.
I think the only concerns would be that John is commonly used for someone who enlists the services of a prostitute, and also as a euphamism for the toilet.
But honestly, I don't think either of these outweigh the name itself. John has a wonderful, biblical, popular history and it is common enough that I don't think you'll run into any problems!
Or you could also consider Johnathan. Then you can do John or Johnny as a nn.

NeedHelp, In terms of John, I can't think of any bad connotations. Sure John has been used in so many ways and songs, but it is so ubiquitous that it doesn't project a precise image for me. I think it's a good name in that it's a blank slate - it can be elegant or ordinary, and would leave your son room to grow. At the same time, it's not an interesting or memorable name and doesn't seem to have much personality to me. It's not for me, but I'd say go with it if you like it - it's a solid name and you can't go wrong with it!

I've had the same thoughts about John, NeedHelp. Kind of the way I felt about Alice, a lovely name that I rarely hear (but have since been informed is making a comeback). I think John is a good name, and I don't know a single one under forty.

Kristin Dawn: thanks for the suggestion. I can see where you got the idea that I was looking for a Citizen Kane inspired name! Actually, I was responding to another poster's interest in Orson for their son's name. Orson won't work for me because it is the name of a friend's (actually, my friend Jesse's!) dog. I just didn't have any negative associations with the name Orson and was wondering what the those might be. By the way, very interesting about it being a LDS name. I've often noticed that LDS men have these weird, antiquated and interesting names.

And then the surname discussion brought up Kane for me, because I like that particular surname . . . and there you have it.

So, what does everyone think of the name Rosebud?

Eleni - I can't really get behind Rosebud. Somehow it seems wrong as a name to me. I think it seems like a pet's name to me, but not a dog or a cat. For some reason, I can easily imagine a horse named Rosebud.