The Baby Name Wizard

I want feminine and beautifull but classy as well - and i want to respect my heritage in her - too many people associate the South with negativity and i want to fight that.

LKB: I love your name suggestions, all very classy, elegant and feminine, I'm particularly in love with Adelaide, Camilla, Felicity and Cecelia.

It's so funny that Gloria got a mention because I had every intention of asking about that name! Does anyone think this one is set for a bit of a rise? I heard it on a film last night and thought how lovely it sounded...

Robyn T: I laughed when I saw Indianna in you post - only because it reminded me of a girl at school called Indianna Jones (yes really!)

I thought of a few more: Georgiana, Cassandra, Candace.

Young Isadora and her eight siblings are quite the bunch...I noticed she was born in Sri Lanka- parents missionaries? Aid workers? Anyhow, if you keep looking back throught the announcements, there is a baby Myrtle, too!

ClevelandKentEvans - thanks for the clarification!

I heard on the radio today that some Chicago Cubs fans ln Fields named their son Wrigley Fields. They said that when he can talk, he can go by his mn, Alexander, if he wants.

Katharine - I do think Gloria is almost ready for a comeback. It seems to fit in perfectly with a lot of the older names that are coming back in style, even if it is a bit more recent (the 30s-50s), plus it also fits with names like Hope, Faith, etc, b/c of the Glory in it. In fact, I can easily picture sisters named Gloria and Honora! I think the only thing holding it back right now is the Gl sound at the beginning, a consonant cluster that hasn't really come back yet. But maybe that's because it's really only about 60-70 years from it's peak, and since 100 seems to be closer to average for the revival cycles, it probably just needs a bit more time. I think Gloria, Gladys and Glenda will be back before we know it! Irene's Mom, if you're reading, Gloria makes me think of your style. I can easily pictures Gloria as the sister of Irene and Lois.

I heard about baby Wrigley Field too. I wonder if they considered just going with Wrigley. To me that would be just as much of a tribute and a little less... out there, but I guess that's a matter of personal taste.

I think Glory/Gloria are cute!

Peter - I agree Nimrod was not a nice guy, (didn't he build the Tower of Babel??) but we don't go around calling people Pontius Pilate. I'd just always been curious how the name became synonymous with idiocy.

BTW, Nimrod is also the name of an evil robot in X-Men that thinks he's smarter than God, or something like that...

That's so interesting about Wrigley Field - my husband and I were just wondering why more people don't name their children after sports teams. We were thinking Dodger or Yankee as likely suspects.

In this day and age of big corporate-sponsored ballparks, a person would have to be mighty careful what they came up with...Safeco? US Cellular?

I think you're bang on about Gloria and Honora LKB. I can totally see them being part of a new wave of 'natural grace' names.

They may be to 'natural grace' names what Iris, Dahlia and Violet are to flower names - fresh names but ultimately all part of the same trend...

Elly: I saw Myrtle too and at some point last week - Una Cecilia

Louise, I like Juno. My sister's married name is Juno, and mine is Christianson. I tried to get her to agree to use Christianson as a fn for her son and I would use Juno as a fn for my daughter, but no dice. Am I the only one who thinks cousins named Juno Christianson and Christianson Juno would be awesome?

Lili, Atlas also threw me for a loop! I can picture a skinny Atlas (I thought of the 'book of maps' atlas before I thought of the 'holding up the world' Atlas), but I had the same thought about the name Magnus (DH's favorite name) -- I don't think you can be a short, skinny Magnus.

Jill C.: I agree with you about Magnus. Similar to Magnus is Marduk, who was one of the Ancient Near Eastern gods but I've heard is a name now. I don't think you can be a little Magnus or a little Marduk.

To further locate "Gloria" in the twentieth century, my aunt who was probably born around 1910, was "Gloria Audrey". She was familiarly known in the family as "Glor". I also like "Glo" and "Gloss" as nicknames. Associated her name with her sophisticated personality (to me) and throaty voice...

The name has an illustrious, historical feeling, also, because of "Gloriana", the nickname for Queen Elizabeth I.

Jill C: Juno and Christianson are cute! Maybe you could get your sister to agree to Christian?

Gloriana is rather nice. The Gloria topic also brings to mind the term Shekinah glory, heard mostly in Pentecostal circles, I believe. Shekinah seems like a winner for those who still like names in the Shania or Shamira vein.

Anneliese was mentioned somewhere along the way and always reminds me of Angeles, a friend from Puerto Rico. Kind of a sweet name that fits well with the current trends whether you pronounce it like Los Angeles or the traditional Spanish way.

I was interested by "Robley" on the list of surnames used for boys. My grandfather's first name was his mother's maiden name -- Roblee, pronounced ROE-blee, like Robley I'm assuming. Many male members of our family have Roblee as either a first or middle name (including my son).

Cleveland Kent Evans -- are you the same man who Joal Ryan thanked in the intro to her name book "Puffy, Xena, Quentin, Uma"? I love that book (second only to Laura's!), and re-read the intro the other day, and saw your name.

didn't mean to dis Priscilla who I also consider to be among the apostles. I should have said that Junia is the only woman IDENTIFIED as an apostle in the New Testament.

Cleaveland Kent Evans-- thanks for pointing out that the KJV version used Junia -- I was unaware that it was "enlightened." :) And many of the more conservative translations that use Junias have added foot/study notes indicating it could be Junia. It is a fascinating debate not only on a theological level, but also as it discusses naming patterns of Greek in first century.

Been lurking, thought I'd venture a slightly OT post. I love these one hit wonder threads. We've just started ttgp, and I've always loved names. DH and I have settled on a tentative pair of b/g names: Rowan/Ivy.

Criteria: old but uncommon, not too odd, prefer a nature meaning, more formal than cute. Many of my favorites were knocked out by our ln(s), both one syllable starting with S. I loved August, Sage, Forest, and even Hyacinth, but they feel too tongue-twisty to me with the ln. Also old, Beatrix was on my list, but has the same problem. We liked Adele and Adair (mentioned here previously), but think the emphasis on the 2nd syllable is too hard with the last name. I liked Avery, Averil, and Aidan, but all have been dismissed as too trendy.

So, Rowan and Ivy. Comments? Suggestions? Also in the mix, maybe for siblings are: Holly, Lavender, Rosalie, Laurel, Willa, April, Oliver, Linden, Reed, Ellery, Everett.

DH thinks a lot of my names smell like old people--I'm trying to win him over. :o)

hyz- Rowan and Ivy are nice names. I really like Rowan. Of your other options I adore Willa. I also like Ellery and would consider it for my own child but it is super close to Hillary.

Thanks, Hillary! I love Willa too (a good, honest old substitute for the now-trendy Willow, plus it's got good literary cred. with Willa Cather, whom I quite like)--but this is one of the names DH dismisses as "musty". I think Ellery sounds great, pleasant meaning, but most men I've talked to think it's awful. Forgot to mention, Silas is another favorite that got nixed by our last names. Ah well.

hyz - I really loke Rosalie. I've met a little Rosalie some years ago; and though it did take some time getting used to it, it was just such a cute name! I also like Willa, such a strong yet soft sounding name.

hyz: There's a lot of overlap between your name list and mine (I have a Silas Oliver and considered several other names you mention).

If you like Linden, what about Linnea ("lin-NAY-uh")? It's a popular Swedish girls' name and a flower name (for the twinflower, Linnaea borealis).

hyz, I love the names -- Ivy and Holly have personal negative associations for me, so it is difficult to be ojective on those two. My favorites are Willa, Laurel, Lavender and Linden.

My son's name is Oliver, so of course I like that, but that's the one I might knock off the list for being too popular (#173 and climbing). I mean, it's no Aiden, but it's a lot more popular than the other names on your list. Likewise, Linden isn't popular in and of itself, but it has that trendy -en at the end. Does that make it sound a little more generic next to Aiden/Hayden/Jayden/Caden/Ethan/Christian/Dylan? I can't decide.

hyz- My favs from your list are Rowan, Ivy, Oliver and Rosalie. Would you consider Azalea, Olivia or Hazel? How about Adlai as an alternative to Adair?

Just a very, very gentle reminder. You know, we'll all be old one day. Very, very old, if we're lucky!

Even the adorable little scrap of humanity that is a newborn baby.... Like that baby, age can be beautiful, and yes, sweetly fragrant...

And jokes that might be amusing in the privacy of couple-dom, are not so charming in an open forum. I'm the last person to be politically correct, but I'd hate for ANY of our readers to be hurt by careless comments...

I saw a very unique name in the birth announcements yesterday.

KYSTERIA. For some reason, I found that to be-well-kysterical.

Just joking, that was too easy. I just wonder if that will ever be a one hit wonder. And what exactly the thought process behind lets name her hysteria with a "k" is. I wonder if they pronounce it Kis steer ria or kis stair ia.

Hmm....that was is a little different.

Eo, I think your gentle reminder may have been too gentle, because I'm not sure what post you're referring to. the reason I ask, is because I apologize if any of my posts have offended you!

Thanks for the comments, guys! Very helpful.

Glad to see Rosalie has some traction. I wanted Rosalind at first (for a g-grandmother), but DH really hated that one, so Rosalie was a compromise. I also don't want to overdo the plant theme--I don't think I'd want Ivy & Holly, for instance, but Ivy & Rosalie seems ok. Similarly, I think Rowan & Oliver would be a good pair, or even Rowan & Linden, since most people don't know these are trees.

I like the look of Linnea, but am trying to avoid names that Americans won't know how to pronounce. DH is Korean (I'm a euro-mutt--Irish/German/Slovak/English/Swiss), and the current plan is for the kids to have traditional Korean fn(hard for some to pronounce), American mn which they will usually go by, and probably his ln (not spelled like it sounds). Haven't decided on a fn yet, probably something like Young-min Ivy S___, or Joon-sun Rowan S___. So, long story short, trying to keep the "American name" easy. Also, maybe this helps with the picturing--I think Ivy really fits a little girl/woman with dark hair and light complexion, and maybe a serious, thoughtful personality. We're a little worried about pretension (Ivy League) or teasing (Poison Ivy), but I think we're willing to risk it.

Cont'd...

Cont'd…

kristi, thanks for the suggestions. I like Hazel, but it unfortunately has a negative family connotation, and like Olivia, if it weren't so darn popular. I can't get past Adlai Stevenson for Adlai. I had a dog named Ansel, and tired of constantly being asked, "Oh, for Ansel Adams?" Even though I like Ansel Adams, it was tiring, as that was not why I picked the name. Azalea is interesting, similar to Althea and Anthea, which we also considered....

I feel so cheated on Aidan and Averil--these are names I picked out 15-20 years ago as a kid, and are now too "in" to use (Averil is NOT the same as Avril (Levigne), but DH & I don't want to have to constantly explain that). I picked Rowan out a good 10+ years ago, and am happy to see it still relatively unused today (except for Brooke Shields, grumble grumble). It does have that vowel+n ending (like Linden), but oh well, I'm sticking with it! :p

We had a discussion a couple of posts ago about Ivy, though I can't remember which... I don't think you need to worry about Ivy League jokes. I went to one of the ivies for undergrad, and I don't think anyone would have made the connection.

To Kate: Yes, I am the person mentioned in the front of Joal Ryan's book. I didn't even remember I was there until you mentioned it and I just checked it. :)

hyz: i have to chime in because my husband i have similar plans, except with Hawaiian first names. so we also want relatively easy "American" names since that is sort of the point of the American name--in case the child wants to use a name that doesn't have to be explained. names i've considered: taren, colette, darien, ambrose, vera, nora, cora, arlo, marlo, elise, marian, sylvan. also, just out of curiosity, are you planning to call them by their fn or mn? my husband and i plan to use the Hawaiian name and have discussed whether this name should be the fn or mn.

re: Kysteria: Maybe it was meant to be Wisteria with a K? I think this is a better explanation at least... altough then maybe they should've spelled it Kisteria, but maybe they didn't want "Kis(s)." Plus "Y" is "cooler" right?

hyz: i have to chime in because my husband i have similar plans, except with Hawaiian first names. so we also want relatively easy "American" names since that is sort of the point of the American name--in case the child wants to use a name that doesn't have to be explained. names i've considered: taren, colette, darien, ambrose, vera, nora, cora, arlo, marlo, elise, marian, sylvan. also, just out of curiosity, are you planning to call them by their fn or mn? my husband and i plan to use the Hawaiian name and have discussed whether this name should be the fn or mn.

re: Kysteria: Maybe it was meant to be Wisteria with a K? I think this is a better explanation at least... altough then maybe they should've spelled it Kisteria, but maybe they didn't want "Kis(s)." Plus "Y" is "cooler" right?

Mae, thanks for the reference--I found it in the Landon post--very thought-provoking. As with that poster, DH and I are Ivy grads, which was part of my concern, but it's certainly not a big part of our personas, and I'm hoping it wouldn't come across that way--glad to see most didn't think of it. But it drives me nuts to see so many people know Ivys around here--I don't know any!!

The Landon comments reminded me of another favorite--Fern. Our main nix on this is that 1 syl fn + 1 syl ln might be too short/choppy--it's not out of the running, though. I also rather like Sylvan for a boy, but haven't won DH over on it.

I don't tend to like the real flowery botanicals like Dahlia, Iris, Daisy, Lily, etc.--I'm going for something stronger, or maybe just stuffier (I do like Hyacinth and Lavender, after all). :o)

Back to the surnames in this post--I really like Thornton, if it weren't for that uncomfortable glottal stop I give it in the middle. DH wanted Holden (a la Salinger), until he saw its popularity.

Robyn,

we're planning to use the American mn as the name they would go by. We were originally going to make the Korean name the mn, but DH was afraid it would fade into obscurity there, whereas at least this way they would be called that name by grandparents, on the first day of school by new teachers, on official documents, etc. I've dreamed for years of what my kids would be called, though (and of course never had trad. Korean names on my lists), and DH didn't want to take that away from me. :)

I like a lot of your names, too--esp. Cora, Ambrose, and Sylvan. Thora's another one we thought of, since you seem to like the 'oras. ;)

hyz: Be careful with what people will decide to call your child. My husband and I were in a similar situation. He wanted an Italian name for the fn of our son but agreed that he could be called by his American mn. But everyone loved his fn Mateo so it stuck. Fortunately I like it as well and go over not using my grandfather's name (Alexander).

Favorite: Gloria Julienne, Orinthia Faye, or Jean-Marie Alana?

1.Gloria Julienne

Lili-- Thank you for inquiring-- that was nice of you to ask! No, it was nothing you have said. I was referring to another post which made reference to names "that smell like fill-in-the-blank" (it was a type of person). I can't stand for anyone who reads this blog-- and we have readers of EVERY imaginable stripe-- to be hurt by heedless generalizations... That's all.

As someone who has always gone by her middle name, I would also just note that it can be pretty annoying. My parents gave me the name they wanted me to be called as the middle name because it flowed better that way with the family name they wanted to use.

What is means, in practice: In school, every first day of the year, and every time there was a substitute, you go through the "Actually, I go by my middle name" routine. And you feel kind of detached from your official documents, because it doesn't really feel like you. And when you're in labor, the nurses are not calling you by your "real" name because that's not what's on the documentation. And your diplomas and such either have to have a really long name or leave out your "real" name. And when colleges automatically assign email handles based on your first initial and last name, no one can ever figure yours out. And so on!

It isn't the end of the world, but I do wish that my parents had just given me the name that I was to be called as my first name

hyz, I love Rosalie and Linden. Both are underused (Ivies and Olivers everywhere over here), and subtly botannical. Willa is my second favorite. Lavendar is too Harry Potter; Holly and April too 1970s; Laurel too androgynous; Reed, Ellery and Everett feel stuffy to me. Rowan will always be the Archbishop of Canterbury, bushy eyebrows and all, in my mind. Also, I love that you know glottal stop, as I learned all the phonemes and their mouth-positions in college. Labial fricatives, everyone!

Hey, our fish is named Gloria! Does this mean I'm ahead of the curve?

..cont'd

The one upside is that when telemarketers call, it's obvious--they're the only ones who ask for me by my first name!

I just thought I would share the downside of going by your middle name. I personally rather resent my first name because I don't connect to it as my "real" name and it seems to get in the way. But, of course, you have to do what you think best fits your family's needs! I would be interested to hear if there are others who go by their middle names and feel more positive about it.

hyz, just wanted to mention that I know two toddlers with the name Rowan, and they are both girls. Not sure if that is something that would bother you, but based on my completely unrepresentative sample, it seems like this one might be androgynous or moving to the female column. I was surprised because the only Rowan I "knew" was Mr. Bean, and he doesn't seem very feminine! I've heard Ronan for boys among the daring namers set, not sure if that appeals.

I think you can reassure your dh about "musty" smelling names -- they are all the rage lately. The only problem seems to be knowing which ones will suddenly become too popular.

Overall, I don't think you can go wrong with any of your choices. Great names!

Eo, sorry--I thought you were still referring to Hebe, didn't realize I was the reason for your post. I certainly didn't mean to offend. I suppose you're right--what's understood as a joke between a couple doesn't necessarily translate to to the screen. My DH is highly respectful of elders as both a personal and cultural matter, so it's clear when he says it that it's a friendly joke, not an insult. Sorry for any discomfort.

mj (and vanessa)--I was concerned about all the things you're saying, too, and I appreciate your first hand perspective. I brought them up with my DH awhile back, and this was the best we came up with. We have a number of friends who have an Asian fn but go by an American mn, and they've been called both enough that they identify with both. I think, based on your input, that we'll be especially careful to use both fairly regularly, so that they can identify with both names, and don't feel alienated from either.

Beth--and here I was worried about the Rowan Atkinson connection! I think I can deal with the Archbishop of Canterbury. :) Brooke Shields and I also have rather naturally bushy eyebrows, so maybe there's a trend here. And yes, language geeks unite! :)

Ivy and Oliver too popular--ack! Say it isn't so! It was hard enough to get DH to find a couple he would agree to, I don't want to head back to the drawing board....

Cathy, thanks! The unisex quality doesn't bother us much. I wouldn't want to call a boy a really co-opted name, like Courtney or something, but I say Rowan is still masculine enough. The girl's form is Rowena, which I don't love. I do like Ronan, maybe I'll add it to the list.

Hyz, I love your list. I'm crazy about Ivy, Willa, Laurel and Lavender -- very different styles, but all great. If you like non-flowery botanicals, have you thought about Fern?

I don't know where the poster lives who says Ivy is popular, but I live in a very trendy naming neighborhood and I haven't heard it. And Oliver is a name that, whatever its official ranking, will always sound classic. Everett is lovely too.

And to mj: my daughter, who's 1 1/2 now, goes by her middle name, partly because of the flow with the last name and partly because that was just the name that seemed to suit her better after she came home. I hope I haven't saddled her with a life of being annoyed by this choice! But the truth is that I now think of her first name (which I also love) the way most parents must think of middle names: as a kind of fancy flourish for special occasions. I kind of enjoy trotting it out at the passport office or the doctor's but her real name, to me, is the one in the middle.

Beth--and here I was worried about the Rowan Atkinson connection! I think I can deal with the Archbishop of Canterbury. :) Brooke Shields and I also have rather naturally bushy eyebrows, so maybe there's a trend here. And yes, language geeks unite! :)

Ivy and Oliver too popular--ack! Say it isn't so! It was hard enough to get DH to find a couple he would agree to, I don't want to head back to the drawing board....

Cathy, thanks! The unisex quality doesn't bother us much. I wouldn't want to call a boy a really co-opted name, like Courtney or something, but I say Rowan is still masculine enough. The girl's form is Rowena, which I don't love. I do like Ronan, maybe I'll add it to the list.

MJ - I know a number of people who go by their mn's - my brother, my dd, friends' dd, friends where each half of the couple goes by an unusual nn for their mn's. My dd is about to turn 2 so she doesn't yet have an opinion. My brother goes by his mn to distinguish him from our dad - they have the same fn. He has never seemed to mind. My friends with the nn for the mn situation have had a few more issues. The husband in that pair goes by a nn for his mn which does not match his actual initials. His office assigns email based on firstname then last name so it definitely didn't match what most people call him - confusing.

As for my own dd, I just have to remember when we are in the doctor's waiting room and the nurse calls "Molly" she is really talking to us.

OK, I'm such a geek. I got curious about Rowan. In 2006 in the US, it was used for 650 male babies vs. 442 female babies. So boys are still "winning", but I wonder if that will hold? Hard to say.

Interesting that Courtney only entered the top 1000 in 1962 for girls. I didn't realize it was such a recent gender switch. And Taylor only debuted in the top 1000 for girls in 1979 but cracked the top 100 within ten years (peaking at #6 only 15 years after it made the girls list). So things obviously change fast! I wonder how that happens? How do people simultaneously decide that a name has gone girl where others stay male (eg. Kevin, which debuted as a girls name at the same time as Courtney but is still mostly used for boys).

Maybe it's the rank of the male name at the time of the attempted take-over?