The Baby Name Wizard

Kimberly,

Well, I've been trying to think of sib sets, too, to help decide between names. From your group, I'd think Evelyn and Everett would be out as a pair, but Everett and Eleanor sounds lovely to me (2 e's, but not too cutesy), as do Everett and Orson (I just like it), Evelyn and Orson (n endings coordinate, but different last vowel sounds so not too cute), Orson and Eleanor (they both sound soft and pleasant to me, the repeating -or sound is nice), Rowan and Sylvia (both natural, and old names).... For me it helps. Like, I like both Holly and Ivy, but I don't think I can have both, so Ivy wins--then, what goes with Ivy? etc... (By the way, Eleanor's on my longer list too, and Sylvan for boys...)

J&H's mom - thanks for the link. I listened while making breakfast, and it was very interesting. Also, Clive is one of my fav boy names (dh is a staunch no-go on it, though).
Sarah R. - definitely avoid the r's with your last name, I'd suggest. I like Liam with your last name, and I agree with pp about the 'ah-rew' sound with Jonah and Noah. I just start to think Kanga...

re: Dagny

I have to say, I'm with Suzanne and Julia on the impression I get from the name. I wanted to suggest Daphne as an alternative. Sounds very similar to Dagny, but in my mind goes much better with Clara and isn't as "controversial." If you love Dagny and you're set on it, then I'm sure you can tune out all this negative feedback on the name. But if hearing people say that they don't like the name is getting to you, I'd have to warn that I think it's a name that will get a lot of mixed (and a lot of negative) reactions, so perhaps that's something to consider in your choice. Daphne sounds much better with Clara to me. Plus, the urban dictionary entry on "Dag" would be enough to turn me off the name even if I did love the way it sounded (which I really don't).

I know I'm in the minority, but Greta is really, really not good for me. It has the same letters as regret, and is in the same brain box as Gertrude (again, not good for me) and Gretchen, (retch in the middle). I don't like the Gr- at the start and the -uh at the end. Sounds very hard.

I know a lot of people on this website like Greta, but to me, it's almost like a stunt name, like Tallulah. It's also an extremely common dog name, but that's not why I don't like it - even the first time I heard it on a dog I felt sorry for the dog.

I don't quite get the dislike of Dagny - surely any (hardly known) negative connotation is nothing compared to Peter or John. Dagny has some of the letters of cygnet and makes me think of swans and classical music (as does Clara). Dagny is just so much more elegant than Greta, for me. And don't a lot of you like the name Agnes? It has exactly the same -ag sound in it.

As there are strong feelings on both sides of this I'm wondering...is there a third option?

Kristin Dawn,

I agree that negative connotations shouldn't convince people to not use a name. Just because some people refer to a toilet as John, takes nothing away from the great history behind the name, and the respectability of that name. And same with the Peter/penis thing. Peter means rock. Jesus gave Peter that name and told him that he would be the rock on which the church was built. You cannot get better history than that if you are a Christian. It also is very respectable, recongnizable, etc. There might be people who giggle at the penis association, but nobody is going to be like "where the hell did they get that name from?"

Dagny is a name that many people will not "get." I honestly had never heard of it and thought it was one of those made up names or something. It doesn't have that respectability/history factor and it also has a negative connotation, which is why I think most people do not care for it.

Kristin Dawn - I hear you on Greta. I actually like it right now, but it's one of those names that had to grow on me over time. I've only known one person named Greta, and at first I thought, what the f* where her parents thinking? She was born in the 80s, by the way, when it certainly wasn't as "in" as it is becoming now... It's grown on me now, and it's come to sound much softer. But part of the reason I think it's a far better choice here is because I see it being closer to Clara. I do see the relation between Agnes and Dagny, and I hate Agnes as well as Dagny. Anyway, I second both LKB and Kristin Dawn's suggestions of a new choice.. perhaps Daphne, or perhaps something unrelated. Personally, I wouldn't want to name a child something that so many people felt so negatively about. Maybe you could go with Margaret and call her Greta for short... even if people don't like the nn., Margaret is so classic that, although I'm sure a lot of people don't like it, I can't imagine anyone being horrified by it.

Sarah R-Here are a few that are similar in style to your current choices and seem to work better with your ln imho.
Jonas, Lucas, Nolan, Colton, Caleb, Nathaniel
I wish I could explain why they seem to work better; maybe someone can help me out with that, or just tell me I'm full of baloney!
On the Dagney debate-I just don't care for the sound of it. I'm also not a fan of Gretchen or Agnes. I can't explain why I love Greta so much-maybe it's that popular a at the end.
I had also thought Daphne might be a nice compromise name, and I haven't heard of any little Daphnes.
Letter K-What a fun list. I actually know a little Torsten. His father's parents are from Germany, and his name was meant to honor his heritage. I like it, although when I first heard it I thought it was a real tongue tripper.

Sarah R.,
I agree with the -eroo comments, so I vote Brighton or Liam. Too bad, because they're all nice, and I especially like Asher, but I don't think I could do Asherroo. Brighton is very neat, though, and sounds classy--I certainly don't know any kids called that, and I like the "bright" and how it's different without being odd, and the sound isn't too far off from much more common names, like Brendan, Brayden, etc. I like Liam, and it's a safer name than Brighton if that appeals to you, since it's becoming so popular now. I was a bit puzzled by your choices though, too--the others are very Old Testament/Jewish, while Brighton sounds British-y (or preppy, or modern) to me, and Liam is Irish. All nice, though.

Thanks for all the comments, they are super helpful!

Nancy, great posts! I've tagged them and am reading them all.

Thanks everyone for your comments on name selections. What a great venue to be able to get opinions. If I were asking my friends the same questions, I would feel sensitive, but I appreciate the objective thoughts here. I did first fall for the name Dagny while reading Atlas Shrugged in my mid-20s. We will have to wait to see this baby to make a final decision. We have also considered Knut as a name for boy as it is a family name for my husband, and while I think it is both a cute and strong name, I think people would stumble over the the pronunciation. We have a 3-syllyable Norwegian last name that people stumble over a bit anyway.

Can you all see why it took me five years to decide I wanted to legally take my husband's name? I love the man to death, but just say Sarah Rew a bunch of times! Sa-rah Rew is just a mouthful of R's!!
That being said, having a unique name can be a benefit for record keeping and financial purposes because you'll rarely come across others, (perhaps with bad credit/criminal histories), with your name.

And it is kind of funny that we like so many Hebrew names. We just think they are beautiful, though truthfully we aren't going for any specific name type.

A few months ago I was sold on the name Brody, but my husband insists that it sounds like a kid who dropped out of high school.

BTW, my dh and I love the name Agnes, (for a girl), but we are the only people we know inside the U.S. that likes the name. We saw it a lot in Africa. Just imagine a darling little girl in Sub-Saharan Africa saying with a British accent--'my name is Agnes.'

Precious!!

I think the main reason why Dagny doesn't appeal to me is the ag bit. Ditto Agnes and Agatha. But I actually don't care for Greta either, although I LOVE Clara. So I guess we just have different taste in names. Just follow your heart!

I think Agnes (and Dagny) would sound nicer with a British accent, for a specific reason. In America we say it with a long, slightly nasal -a sound, like ack or gag or ass (can I say that here?), which I think sounds a bit whiny, unpleasant, and harsh. I think the Brits give it a shorter, crisper -a sound (that's a little closer to -eg than -aaaag) that just sounds cleaner to me.

Greta sounds harsh to me, too, but better than Dagney. Gretchen is a pet form of Greta, so that is a nn if you want it. It's very strong and German to me, rather sharp, but smart and business-like. I don't see it as a clear match to Clara, which I think is soft, feminine, and sweet, but at least they're both old-fashioned names.

just my $.02

hyz - I agree about the British accent making a difference - as I've said before, I think the reason many older names don't sound as good, at least to my ear, is that we have an entirely different pronunciation now than we did even during the WW2 years. Harder R's, more nasal vowel tones, dropped syllables, etc. Example - Dahling as opposed to daRRlin'.

My grandmother's name was Evelyn and she and my grandfather pronounced it much differently than I hear it pronounced today - more like Eyvrln - to me, not at all as appealing as Ev-e-lynn, which I like a lot.

That having been said, I think the -ag in Dagny is mitigated somewhat by the D in front - I don't care for Agnes or Agatha, but when I say them out loud, I begin with an open mouth and a nasal A. When I say Dagny, the a is more towards the back of my throat and much less noticeable. I do like Clara more than either Dagny or Greta, however.

Sorry for the wonky post! Hope this is clear!!

BTW hyz, a while back you mentioned that you felt Juniper was an Asian name? Could you please elaborate?

Juniper has been tossed around as a possible name for Baby and my teenage son is lobbying hard for it, but I would be afraid of giving offense if it is considered Asian.

Thank you!

kristin dawn, that wasn't me, that was Tirzah. I'm not entirely sure why she said that, except that sometimes junipers are a plant sometimes associated with eastern aesthetics--there are junipers from all over the world, but some are definitely Chinese, Japanese, etc. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juniper ). I certainly don't think anyone (reasonable) would consider being offended by it's use for a non-Asian person. In fact, I've only heard of one Juniper, and she's a young white girl--seemed like a lovely choice to me. It dropped off our short list partially because we think we want to incorporate the word "joon" into kid(s)' Korean names, and wouldn't want Joon-hee Juniper Lastname, for ex. I like it, though! If kid thought Juniper was too much of a handle, she could always go by nn June or Junie, very cute.

ugh, typos. sometimes sometimes, it's for its--I need a coffee break. :o)

I did think of Nancy's posts when I first read Laura's latest blogs. I meant to post links, but never got around to it. The more name bloggers the merrier!

In case you want alternatives to Dagney, I like Darcy and Darby. (Darby is the name of the little girl on My Friends Tiger & Pooh).

Regarding the Asian American thing, my personal theory is that AAs like picking names that are familiar to their generation. Whereas everyone else says I like Ella because I don't know anyone my age with this name, AAs say I like Ashley because I have lots of nice friends named Ashley. The result is that lots of the naming is a generation or so behind. For example, all of the AA Lindas I know are in their thirties, not their fifties. Of course, this approach is in addition to the close to native name/nouns-nature themes/Christian names approaches discussed above. (Though the Christian approach seems heavily weighted towards Koreans.) At my workplace, we have AAs in their 30's named Agnes, Winston and Abraham.

I also wanted to note that I don't know any Asian Americans that use family names or that are named after specific members of their families.

(My family has a modest exception. My cousin's middle name is the same as our grandfather's first name; however, we have been in the U.S. for 6 generations and, probably more importantly, the mom is Caucasian, not Asian.)

kristin dawn, I just saw your post. Junipers are used heavily in Chinese and Japanese gardens and as bonsai plants. I would go so far as to say that you can't have a Japanese or Chinese themed garden without it. In addition, the obvious nickname "June" is an extremely common name for Asian American women, especially middle aged and older woman (as is the other month name "May"). I agree with Hyz that the name Juniper is not in any way exclusively in the realm of Asian names. I would say most Americans aren't that familiar with Asian culture (unless you live in Hawaii) and wouldn't make the associations. BTW, there is a show on the Cartoon Network called "The Life and Times of Juniper Lee" about a Chinese American teen with superpowers. Honestly, I was horrified when I discovered this show through an Internet search, not because it's a bad show (I've still never seen it) but because I would hate for people to think I picked a name for my daughter from a cartoon!

Just for clarification, I didn't end up picking the name Juniper!

Awww. I adore Juniper and would use it in a heartbeat!

Now for my question. Leo or Leopold? Henry will be his MN, and we'll call him Leo. I like the flow of Leopold Henry a tad better than Leo Henry. What do you think? Which combo sounds better? Is Leopold usable?
I'm due next week. Help!

I like Leopold Henry better. You can always call him Leo, but it gives him options if he doesn't like it. I also think Leopold Henry sounds better. But the major question is probably how long is your last name. If it is short, then Leopold would balance it out. IF you have a long last name, then you might like the shorter name better.

I really like Greta Rose.

Leopold reminds me of the murderers Leopold and Loeb. http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/famous/loeb/index_1.html
I'd go with Leo, especially if that is what you will call him.

About Ellery...does anyone else just think of celery, or am I pronouncing it wrong?

Agree with wendy on the last name comment. Leopold Henry Fluffernutter is a bit much, while Leopold Henry Jones is very reasonable. :o) I also like the idea that Leopold would give him options. I personally think Leo is much cuter, and will stand up well into adulthood, but it sounds like a nn that should have a full name to go with it. Ultimately I guess I could go either way, so not much help, but leaning towards Leopold.

Ellery does rhyme with celery. Incidentally, the guy I knew named Ellery (family name, I think), went by Elvis. Seems like every man who hears his real name says, "Oh, I can see why he went by Elvis." I like it anyway. :p

I like it too. It has a very crisp sound to it (sorry, couldn't resist).

Julia - you probably find Rory difficult to pronounce with your accent. If I try to say it with a US accent I get completely tongue-tied, but I have no problems when I say it in my own accent.

Amber- With Norwegian roots and a name like Knut in the family, I think Dagney is a great choice. I'm guessing the like/dislike of this name is very regional. Just as the hottest Irish names (Niamh? Aoife?) seem totally foreign to me, Scandinavian names like Dagney sound familiar and normal even if I've never met anyone with the name. Just depends on where you live.

Totally separate topic, I spotted the name Cleome in a local newspaper, a teenage girl. Looks like a three-syllable name to me, whereas Cleone from Laura's one hit list I would assume is two syllables. Am I right?

I had a friend growing up whose brother's name was Rory and she pronounced it "Roar-ree". It seemed to take forever to spit out! I love the look of the name, but agree that when I try to say it, it sort of feels like I have marbles in my mouth.

jt-I know a little girl named Ellery. Everyone gave her mom grief for naming her this, but she is just a darling little girl and it really works for her. Also, since Elle, and Ellie are such popular names right now she has nickname choices that are completely mainstream.

Random comment--was just going back through old Telegraph announcements, and came across this one:
"June 15th 2006

RINGER
On 7th June 2006, to Vanessa (née Ware) and Jonathon, a daughter Agnes Bramble Violet, a sister for Maisie and Tom."

Bramble? Really? I almost like it. I want to like it, but I don't think it *sounds* pretty. I have a friend named Thistle, which was surprising at first, but now I love it--soft and sweet, not spiky like the flower.

p.s. I don't think Rory is hard to say. Roar-ee. Certainly not as much of a mouthful as Imogen or Gertrude or Wilhelmina, to my mind. Soft and nice, I think.

Love Leopold. Makes me think of Aldo Leopold, of A Sand County Almanac fame.

Randomly, I prefer Leo. Leopold ends in -old, which is a drawback to me.
On Dagny - since I knew a Scandanavian named Clara, I guess I see the two as a fit together.

Good evening fellow name nuts. I love Laura's site, and this thread has been so interesting for me to read.Your insightful comments provide me with a good deal of food for thought. I often have a reaction to the names you are discussing that is very different from what the majority of you seem to think, because you appear to be relatively young, and i am in my 60's. Some of the names near and dear to your hearts sound unattractive to my ear because I associate them with people who were old when I was young. The names that sound fresh to you today eg. Clara, Violet, Helen, Henry, Leo...have never been very appealing to me. But having heard them often on this thread, i'm finding them more appealing. I guess even an old dog can learn new tricks.
May: like jt, I think of Nathan Leopold when I hear the name Leopold. he and Richard Loeb were two bright teenagers when they committed a particularly heinous crime, and most people of my age would think of that nightmare when hearing the name Leopold.

oops! To continue my previous post, I, too, would suggest Leo.
Kristi: a Cleome is a flower, and the pronunciation is: Clee-oh-me. Accent on the second syllable.

I have to agree about Leopold, it brings up a dreadful image for me. Plus, it sounds like it's trying a little too hard. How about Leonard? Or perhaps Leon? Although Leon is a nn. too, it sounds more full/finished than Leo, and Leo can still be the nn. Then there's always Leander, which is also beautiful and a "fresher" choice than Leonard.

There's also Leonardo for a slightly different feel.

Kristen Dawn--Could you elaborate on your question as to whether or not it is offensive to give your non-Asian baby an Asian name?
I was a bit taken aback by this comment, since I initially (and probably erroneously) read between the lines and assumed you find an association with Asia distasteful. Again, I think I was jumping to conclusions.
I am particularly curious about what you are thinking because I am Asian (married to a white American) and we often toss around very British or "WASPy" names. I've always felt like all names are fair game and reading your comment made me wonder if naming my future kids very NON-Asian names would seem offensive to some.
Would seeing a Eurasian kid named, say, Graham or Linnea weird people out?

KS: I can't speak for Kristen Dawn, but how I would interpret a concern for causing offence with an Asian name on a non-Asian baby to be more about causing offense to Asian people. I think the worry is that by naming a non-asian child something like Hui Sien, Min Than or Lifang it could be viewed as culture stealing (that phrase is way too harsh but I can't think of a better way to say it).

Then again I can't see why it should really cause offence, I know I'm definitely not offended by Asian children with European names (in fact the thought of that being offensive is just bizare). At worst it might cause a little surprise upon first meeting the person having previously only known their name.

Just had to say, my husband is a Eurasian named Graham. He was brought up in small towns in Australia where everyone else was very Anglo, so I think in his case it helped to have a very Anglo name. I'm with you though - we named our daughter a middle-European name (Louka). But then she actually looks more middle-European than quarter-Chinese!

Oops, meant to say I'm with you in thinking all names are fair game.

KS - I would also interpret Kristin Dawn's question to be about exotification and "culture stealing," and not in any way about a distaste for Asian names. I actually do know a white person who goes by a Chinese name (which is not her given name) (oh, and she doesn't speak Chinese), and I have heard people say behind her back that they think she's exotifying Chinese culture in a way that is offensive. And I should add that that does have a bit to do with her personality as well. Personally, I don't find it offensive in itself, but I do find it a little odd. Still, I think all names are fair game, and I am actually considering an Indian name for my future non-Indian child. But it does make me pause, & I'm not sure I'll do it. I think a lot of it may come down to intention in the end. If you choose a name that you love, it shouldn't matter. But if you're choosing a name that comes from another culture as a way of saying "my baby's name is cooler than yours," well, that's silly on many different levels!

KS, as a white person married to an Asian American person, our take on it is basically this--naming our kids anything we have a personal connection to is fine. I recently heard of a white baby girl being named Midori just because they liked the sound of it, and I admit I thought that was a little odd--pretty, but odd. Neither DH nor I have any Hispanic or French heritage, for instance, nor any special connection to countries speaking those languages, so we wouldn't feel right naming a kid Fernando or Jean-Luc or something else very conspicuously from those cultures. On the other hand, we both speak (rusty) German and I have German heritage, so Katharina, Isolde, Franziska, Johann, or Gustav (for example)wouldn't seem completely beyond the pale to us. Likewise we looked at English, Irish, and Slavic names, as those are all a prominent part of my heritage. Finally, we wouldn't have a problem using any popular American name, since after all, our kids, like us, will be American.

KS, I apologize if my post was unclear. I hold a minor in ESL, previously worked with Asian exchange students, and actually lived in Japan in my younger days. I really like Asian culture a lot, but I would just be concerned about giving my WASP-y kid an Asian name - not to open up a whole 'nuther can of worms, but I just think since whites are the dominant culture I am wary of co-opting anything a minority might feel is theirs, specifically.

I was concerned that Juniper was perhaps very popular amongst Asian-Americans and if so, I wanted to respect that. There are so many names out there that if any name might offend someone, then I would just prefer not to use it.

Thanks all for the input!

Thanks to hyz and Tirzah for the input on Juniper (sorry for the mixup)

Now that I know it's culturally ok to use Juniper...
I like the name a lot, and as I said, my son is really pulling hard for it, but I'm still up in the air. Part of me feels he's being such a good sport about his old mom popping out another unexpected bundle of joy that maybe I should just let him and his brother pick whatever name they like!

However, I am kind of unsure if we are 'cool' enough to use the name Juniper. Juniper seems like a free spirit, almost hippie name to me, and I'm a little afraid of giving it to a girl who will most likely be geeky, bespectacled, quiet, and shy.

Do you think Juniper is too much to saddle on a girl who may prefer to be one of the kids in the background?

I'd love to hear some opinions on names I'm considering... This is not my full list, these are only the ones that I'm very unsure about as far as how other people hear them and react to them. Most of my other choices are fairly classic/common (i.e. Anna, Lucy, Miranda, Ben, Eli). So here we go, I'd really appreciate thoughts/reactions! (Some were mentioned above, too, but not discussed much).

Iben (f, pron. EE-bin, Scandinavian)
Saben (m/f, also maybe Sabin? SAY-bin)
Sula (f) (yes, from Toni Morrison)
Scarlet (f) (too popular? cheesy?)
Eloise (f) (is this set for a take-off?)
Enid (f) (with nn. Edie)
Aurelia (f, pron. aw-RAIL-ya/aw-RAY-lia)
Celine/Celina (f) (overtaken by Dion?)
Otis (m)
Clyde (m) (do you think of Clydesdales?)
Sunisa (f, popular Thai name)
Claudia (f) (do you think of "claw"?)
Walter (m) (too old-man-ish?)

I'm struggling with whether I want to stick to timeless classics or go with slightly less mainstream choices, but I definitely like names with histories and standard spellings.

Hi May,

Leo is a pretty strong and grown up name in and of itself - Leopold feels a bit like overkill to me, as do Leonardo and Leonard. Though I agree that Leopold Henry does have a better flow than Leo Henry. Something with more syllables like Leo Alexander seems to balance better.

I believe a lot of older people will immediatly think of Loeb and Leopold, just as we do when we hear the name Manson, even though the Manson killings happened nearly 30 years ago. Ditto anyone who has studied much about psychology - those two are used often as case studies. And there is always the risk of some clever Hollywood type deciding to make a movie about the pair (Sandra Bullock's Murder by Numbers was based on the case, only set in the present day). Only you can decide how much that bothers you - in case you haven't noticed, some of us may possibly tend to overthink things just a wee bit too much...

Brett, you may want to repost on the new essay - the discussions tend to jump ship when a new essay appears. I was wrapping up a couple of loose threads.

My favorites from your post are...Lucy, Miranda, Anna, Eli, and Ben. Just so you can see my personal taste going in.

From your list, I would go with Sabin for a boy, though it makes me think of a polio vaccine, and Celine or Aurelia for a girl. I think there will be pronunciation issues with Aurelia. You are pronouncing Aurelia like the plant 'false aralia', but when I see Aurelia I think, O-ree-lee-ah.

Claudia is a distant runner up, but I don't like the Clod sound at the start.
I think Scarlett is currently being overused. Clyde, Otis, and Enid are really, really not good for me. Walter and Eloise are less 'not good' but still, NTMT. The other names are quite unusual and as I don't know your ethnic background, I might feel funny about using some of them.

continued...

Kristin Dawn -- I'm not sure about Juniper if you're concerned about your daughter wanting to slip into the background a bit. It would definitely draw some attention from people seeing it for the first time, but she could always go by June/Junie, which is less attention-grabbing. I think I would probably opt for Juniper as a middle name and use it in the family to see how it sticks. If she likes it, she can call herself that, but if she doesn't, she can have a more standard name to fall back on. That way, she won't deal with much attention on the name unless she chooses to introduce herself as Juniper. Then there are always the issues with using the middle name, which were brought up above, but I know lots of people who go by their middle name for whom it hasn't been too problematic.

p.s. I also think Jupiter is cool as an occasional, fun nn. for Juniper.

Eesh, sorry for the post marathon here!!

Brett, on some earlier posts of Laura's she points out that even names that seem very common are actually not being used that much. There are so many more names in common usage now than there were even 30 years ago, and uniqueness is so much more valued, that the most popular names are still somewhat uncommon. The days of being one of 7 Jennifers in the class are pretty much over with.

My point is, maybe you don't have to go quite so far afield for a name that will make your child stand out. Unless a name has deep personal or cultural meaning for your family, it might be better to stick to names that are easy to spell and pronounce.