The Baby Name Wizard

Hi everyone! I'm a newbie, but a life-long naming enthusiast, and just stumbled across this site by pure chance. LOVE your insights and the intelligent level of discourse, and wanted to jump in with a few related questions:

1) Traditionally Jewish names used by non-Jewish families. I'm recently married and we're still in the considering-thinking-about-maybe-possibly-trying-to-conceive-eventually phase, but love to discuss potential names. It's occurred to me that some of my favorite pics are Old Testament names that are traditionally considered Jewish names (like Jude, Micah, even Shoshana), although my husband and I aren't Jewish. Do you consider this cultural appropriation in some way? I've always gravitated towards these names because they're strong and classic, unique but not 'made-up.' What are your thoughts on this?

2)Last name changes. We've been married for almost 2 months, but I'm still proudly wearing my maiden name- in part because I don't want to deal with any election day hassles, and also because I'm known by this name professionally and I'm hesitant to legally change it. (I'm also just being sentimental, I have a fantastic, uncommon Scottish last name that flows really well with my first name.) I would like to take my husband's last name because I appreciate the tradition of "sharing a name," but I'd like to keep using my maiden name professionally. Is this possible, and how does one go about it?

Whew, sorry for the long hijack, I guess I'm just excited to find a new community discussing 2 of the issues that have been on my mind lately! Thank you!
-Meghan with an H

Welcome Guest!

I'm not sure how using OT names could be considered cultural appropriation when used by anyone of Judeo/Christian/Islamic heritage. Even if the names are more common in the Jewish community, they are still part of the tradition of all of those religions. Plus these days OT names are so common I no longer make religious assumptions when I meet someone with one of those names.

I will admit that I find it a bit strange when I meet non-Jews with modern Hebrew/Israeli, non-biblical names - just as I find it a bit strange when we borrow Irish/Celtic/etc names from other cultures. I suppose I do consider that 'cultural appropriation' if you don't have a connection to that culture. But really, if you look at the names we consider traditional American names, how many of them were originally from another culture? If Amy and Claire are ok, then why not Amelie and Celine? Names move across cultures constantly, and always have. So while I may find it a little odd, it doesn't bother me in the same way that using non-names from other cultures without fully understanding their meaning (like Adonai) does.

Meghan with an H-
Welcome! Hope you enjoy hanging out here!
I took my husband's last name but keep my maiden name for business. I just changed my SS card, drivers' license and passport to my married name, but asked the bank to accept checks made out to either name, which they are fine with, so long as they have copies of both signatures. Depending on the kind if business, you may need to get a DBA.

I decided not to put my maiden name in the middle name slot, as it is too complicated a combo, so kept my original middle name there. I'm very happy with the solution.

Steph P- congrats on Ivy Delphine- beautiful!

Steph P.-Congrats! Wow another little Ivy. Maybe you and hyz could meet someday and the tow could "play" together.

Trish-A very intersting name change story you had there. I think if those were my circumstances I may have been tempted to change my name as well.

Valerie-Congrats to Jack!

Meghan with an H-Welcome! I'm sure you will like it here.

Love all the new features, I have playing with many of them, great job Laura! Also, I am always fascinated with the married-name-change-discussion. I think what is most important is that all options and eventual decisions are respected. It seems now (at least in my circle - twenty to thirty something academic professionals) that no-one assumes anything about what you are doing about your name. I have at least one friend I think for every option - husband changing his name, hyphenating, new last name, wife changing hers, everyone keeping their own etc. etc. And I find the stories and reasons behind all of them very interesting. This is one of those things where you just do what feels right. And for what its worth, I changed my last name, and now have my "maiden" name as a middle. I love my husbands last name and now its mine too. But very few of my (female) friends have changed their name after marriage.
Also, simply as an interesting side note, I have 4 parents due to remarriages, all 4 of whom have a different last name. And my husband just has his mother, who due to a divorce has a different last name from us. We find all this amusing - if not a bit complicated to explain sometimes :)

Meghan: To me, Jude and Micah are pretty mainstream and I wouldn't expect bearers of them to be Jewish. I think I would expect a Shoshana to be Jewish--the only one I have heard of is the fashion designer that was dating Jerry Seinfeld at one point.

Miriam - On this subject of Anglicising Hebrew names - I may be misunderstanding you but are you suggesting that names have to be pronounced pretty much as they would be in Hebrew to qualify as somehow 'correct'? Because I would disagree.
For example, my name Keren is biblical and was chosen by my parents as a biblical, Hebrew name to honour our Jewish heritage. But as Brits my family pronounced my name KER'un, not KER-EN as they do in Israel. Does that mean my name is somehow not really Hebrew, stripped of its heritage, meaning and history? I don't think so.
Same goes for my son's name - Judah. Is that somehow uncoupled from its Jewish and Hebrew heritage because it is not written and pronounced Yehuda? I don't think so.
So I can well imagine someone seeing the name Chaya, deciding it is pronounced with a Ch but then falling in love with its meaning and Jewish connection. They may be misguided and ignorant but it seems a little harsh to deny them that link if they want it.

Miriam - thanks for that info. I knew the community was large, but I didn't know it was that large. Pretty amazing. It is nice to know names I like are still being used by some of the Jewish community. I have a soft spot for Yiddish names.

As to whether or not the 'ch' sound can go anglo. It does in various ways. The 'ha' conversion is popular, but like Miriam, I'm not sure it sounds nice with Chaya.

I met a Michal who introduced herself as 'Meekal'. It wasn't until I heard a family member call her 'Michal' that I knew that was how her named was pronounced.

'Rachel' is perhaps the most common 'ch' name with an established anglo version. I've always preferred the Hebrew (Yiddish?) version.

The heroine of The Devil's Arithmetic (by Jane Yolen), is named Chaya. It's about a Jewish Girl, but the book itself is a pretty mainstream modern classic YA novel. I read it in middle school and I brother (at a different school) actually had to read it as part of the 8th grade curriculum. All my friends read it. I believe it was made into a movie, too, though I never saw it. I'm not saying this has anything to do with the name's popularity in NYC - obviously it doesn't. But it means that there is a leat SOME exposure to the name in the wider community (and that's probably not the only example).
As an 11-year-old in Milwaukee, I thought the name was pronounced Chay-a, of course. And although I think it is silly to use a name while not knowing the "right" pronounciaton, it's also silly to insist that the "right" pronounciation be used. I mean, no one pronounces Caitlin correctly, but that doesn't mean the people who name their daughter's Caitlin are misappropriating anything.

wow, lots of typos. sorry

Hey - Namipedia has pronunciation guides! Yea!

Actually GirlRandolph, there are lots of 'ch' names with established anglo versions - like Hannah, which is actually Channah. It's just that usually we just use the H, and most of us don't know the C was ever there. But you're right that Rachel is an excellent example of a time when we do use the CH and pronounce it in the standard anglo fashion. Can't believe I didn't think of that - it's my sister's name. Anyway, if we can spell/pronounce Rachel with the ch sound I don't see why Chai-a is any less correct. I don't like it nearly as much, myself, but that doesn't make it wrong.

I'm another one who has found that the advanced search on Namipedia doesn't work well -- the "no creative spellings" options produces ALL creative spelling, but so does the creative spellings option. It's frustrating.

Sorry, substitute "non-standard spellings" for "creative spellings" in my above comment.

Valerie-Thanks for the update! As the mom of a Jack, I'm biased, of course, but I think it's a name that fits right in with a whole range of styles.
I suppose that sort of "vanilla," quality makes it less appealing to some, but our Jack is a friend to all by nature, so it suits him!
Of course, Namipedia confirms that it's pretty well saturated everywhere on the planet, but dh swears boys don't mind using their initials.

Steph-Many congratulations on Ivy! I think it's very reminiscient of your other choices, and I particularly like it with Delphine. I hope you and your little one are doing well.

Meghan-I know of women who use their married last name for family and personal correspondence and their maiden name with their professional colleagues.
Others can probably fill you in on the technical aspects, but there is certainly nothing wrong with it.

Confession: I've never used Wikipedia.

I mention that because I'm confused about how the collective knowledge aspect of the Namipedia works.

Let's say someone writes, "There are scads of Gaylords these days."

Or, less obviously, "Molly is a dog's name."

How does information that is just wrong, or not wrong, but certainly open to debate, get filtered?

I apologize if this is terribly obvious to all. I sometimes feel like my technical skills are falling behind by the day.

Oh, and Ticketcasey-I can't load the map one either, but my computer is terribly old, and I have problems with any site with a lot of Java.
Hope little "B," is well!

"How does information that is just wrong, or not wrong, but certainly open to debate, get filtered?"

By community cooperation and consensus. The idea (with wikipedia and namipedia, as I understand it) is that, while there may be a few pranksters and misinformed contributors, the bulk of the community is going to add good information and correct or remove bad information. This is always an in-progress process, so you should never consider an entry (at any wiki) to be final and authoritative--it's just the best the community of contributors has assembled so far, and always subject to change.

I remove graffiti (nonsense additions) at Wikipedia all the time. Anyone can do it. I was actually using one biographical entry once when it was being vandalized, so the nonsensical changes were only visible for seconds before they were corrected. That's how it's supposed to work.

The other thing to know is that, when changes are made, they're logged with your username--so if, for example, JESTER0101 develops a pattern of making destructive or irrelevant changes, Laura can remove them from the community of contributors.

Laura, thanks for these great tools! BUT- my strong opinion is that you should include Washington DC on your Name Mapper! Though we are not officially a state, our data is available on the SSA website, and we have a unique, diverse population whose naming trends may be interesting to track (at the very least to those who live here, or in the VA & MD suburbs). Besides that, we're disadvantaged enough by not having a voice in Congress. . . please, let our babies' names be heard!

(I haven't had a chance to read above comments, so I'm sorry if this has already been suggested!)

I tried to look at the comments but may have missed one if this has been mentioned. On Namipedia, if someone has filled in a section (example, comments) I no longer see the link suggesting I add to this. How can I edit to add a comment once a comment has been put in? Maybe I just missed it but I thought I'd mention it anyway.

Steph-what a surprise! Ivy Delphine is lovely and you made a good choice (all your options were good--I love your taste).

I hope you and hyz do both wind up with Ivy and August... talk about the Ethel-Mae postulate!

Thanks, Floyd!

I read that in acuracy audits, Wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica - about 17% wrong at any given time. I don't know, however, how accurate a small wiki would be... since the point is that millions of users tend to be right...

Coll,

I have a friend with almost the same situation and views but she has 2 little girls - she convinced her husband to go with her ln as an additional mn by compromising with her older daughter's fn. When #2 came along, the precedent was there already.

I think that in wikis, every old version is archived too so that if an entry has been obviously vandalized, the moderator can revert it back to the previous version. Ooh, I wonder if some of us will get to be moderators in the future...

My sleep-addled brain can't recall if someone has already posted a link to this gem on How To Avoid Hipster Baby Names:

http://www.ohdeedoh.com/ohdeedoh/slinks/10-ways-to-avoid-hipster-baby-na...

KneeCoal Peay- Thanks for that! It was very interesting to read. Most of us here have broken the rules.

Can someone clarify the article for me? Was the article tongue and cheek? What is the problem with those names? Am I taking it to literally? Hmmm.....I love a lot of those names and two of my children have hipster names.

Laura - I love the new tools! I can't wait until those sibling sets get large - but they have already grown quickly.

Can anyone help me to understand the Dwayne/Duane dichotomy? I see the regional differences, but any idea what is underlying them?

@KneeCoal Peay & Rjoy - Great link! I actually think it's meant to be taken literally. As in, "how not to seem like a hipster," which is apparently something to which a few hipsters seem to aspire.

I don't know that there's any "problem" with using any of the so-called hipster names, really, unless you are terribly afraid of being branded a hipster. I'm of the "Choose the name you love" camp, but also the "Educate yourself about how the name will strike people" camp, hence why I hang out on this blog. ;)

"Hipster" can be taken as a derisive term sometimes (maybe like yuppies or hippies of decades past) but the type of person the term hipster evokes for me certainly isn't inherently negative IMHO. (In fact, I'm probably one myself...) But some who are clearly in the category of hipster do in fact have a problem with such a crass lumping together of many unique individuals in the same box as part of today's social/aesthetic trends favored by that certain urban, consumerist, sardonic, educated set.

Megan W: My guess is that Dwayne is much more common among African Americans.

Melanie1 - After someone has written an entry into Namipedia, the link saying "Share what you know!" is gone, but next to the section heading it still says "Edit". That is what you need to click to add your information. You are essentially editing the existing entry by adding yours to it. That's the whole notion of how a Wiki works.

Also, to everyone who adds a second post right after a first one to add or change a detail, did you notice the new "Edit" link that appears under your text once you post your entry? If you are logged in, you have the option of editing what you have previously posted.
Just thought that might be helpful.

New baby update: Archie Arnett, son of actors Amy Poehler and Will Arnett.

Seems a little alliterative to me, but not bad otherwise. I'm not a big nickname as full name fan, but I'm not sure what full name would work for Archie. Archibald doesn't quite do it for me - anything else?

Nichol S. RE: hipster

I'm not a hipster. I'm not nearly that cool. But I guess I share the naming outlook. I love old fashioned names that have and haven't been revived. I don't see a problem with 'Edna'. I especially like 'Myron' and don't see why 'Byron' is cool but 'Myron' is horrible.

It is a little ridiculous when people go around wanting to be unique as if that in and of itself is something to be praised. Plus it is even more ridiculous when people who want to be unique and choose the same baby names.

If you love a name, just don't expect to be the only one just because you are the family oddball (or whatever defines you as unique).

You don't know how many couples I've heard say "I chose this because it is very unusual" and they are right in fashion.

A bunch of people who may be off the mainstream but all dress alike, enjoy the same lifestyle and music and all live in the same neighborhood pockets around America are not that unique. And I don't think that is a bad thing. But it's just like anything else - a trend. And when you stake your identity on being unique, it is a little ridiculous.

I also find it silly when the dog has a name like 'Joan' and the child has a name like 'Pippa'.

Sarah Smile: Archer perhaps. Plutarch?

I love those two comedians by the way.

I like the new toys. Though I will always turn to this blog first!

Corazon, I love giving animals frumpy names. The funny thing is that I used to name my animals things like Cornelia and Sophia and now old-fashioned frumpy is the new hip. So the animals have to have 70s names like Steve or Brian to make it funny again.

Hey, my Captcha slogan is "135th impeachment." If only it were "43rd," heh heh.

Sarah Smile- How about Arcimboldo (Ar-cheem-BOWL-dough) after the Italian painter? I have a feeling that might be the Italian variant of Archibald. Pretty wild though.

Also just found out that Archibald Alec Leach was Cary Grant's real name!

Just thought I'd add that The Huffington Post is reporting that Archie Arnett's full name is Archibald William Emerson Arnett--his dad's full name is William Emerson Arnett.

Ah, so Archie was a nickname after all. Thanks, NLB.

I haven't had enough time yet to check out the new naming toys.

My local news (major metropolitan area) reported Beyonce as having a definitive "name change" and offered examples of other celebs famous for their names changes (including P. Diddy). If she hasn't legally changed it, some NE with more time than me should educate the TV station in the nuances of self-naming.

Congrats, Steph P. Ivy Delphine is a marvelously botanical name. Interesting faux-alliteration there with Ivy and August.

On Amy Poehler's child: Archie is the perfect name for the kid of two comedians. It just "sounds" like the name of the class clown or the kid with the cheeky grin.

On Chaya: I quite like a name that would be pronounced Chai-a. I also like Keren's point that changes in pronunciation do not necessarily cancel out the original meaning and history of the name the parents chose. What's interesting is that this brings up the role of "intention" in naming:

Say there are two families with a Chaya pronounced "ch" as in "chip," and Chaya #1 was intended to be an attractive name that rhymes with Maya but is less common, and Chaya #2 was intended to be an Anglophone-friendly pronunciation of the Hebrew name.

Have these two become the "same" name by default, due to pronunciation and spelling? (That is, are names limited to the collections of characters and sounds that compose them?)

Or, are they still two different names, by virtue of what their parents intended?

Easternbetty: That is a really interesting question.

Does anyone know how popular the nickname Belle is? I know Isabelle is something like number 2 in the country, and there are multiple spellings of all the Belle names... anyone know of a way to figure out how popular all the names that end in Belle are as a group?
Or, failing that, would anyone on this board go with Arabella, nn Belle, or is Belle so common as a nickname that it is really off the table for most here?

Easternbetty: That is a really interesting question.

Does anyone know how popular the nickname Belle is? I know Isabelle is something like number 2 in the country, and there are multiple spellings of all the Belle names... anyone know of a way to figure out how popular all the names that end in Belle are as a group?
Or, failing that, would anyone on this board go with Arabella, nn Belle, or is Belle so common as a nickname that it is really off the table for most here?

As someone who is (unfortunately TOO much so) conscious of popularity, I would never choose Belle or Isabelle. That should tell you a lot, then, about the fact that I wouldn't hesitate to use Arabella. This name is under-used, IMO, and very distinguished (Strauss' opera brings up good memories).

Now, Annabella might have the potential for very high popularity, precisely because both Anna and Bella are so popular and trend-friendly, but I think Arabella is safer. At least for the time being.

I do think Belle/Bella is popular these days, and with the Twilight movies coming out soon it's going to get more exposure. But Arabella is less common, and it has lots of nickname possibilites - Ara, Ari, Rabi, Ella in addition to the above to. I kind of like Ara, myself. Plus the full name is not too long or formal for everyday use. You could always call her Belle but have some other options in you mind if you find it too common.

I think Easternbetty's question is fascinating too. I guess my thought is that while the meaning and history is important to the family, with good reason, the vast majority of the people who meet you never know about it. I think many of us are attached to our own names in part because of the story behind them, and so that has an impact on how much we like them. But in terms of how other people see us, I think the same spelling and pronounciation are one name, not two, even if the stories are different.

Jane P, I'd stay away from the nn. Belle, personally -- it's too popular for me. I also think a girl named Arabella would blend into the Isabel/la, Annabel/la, just-plain-Bella crowd. It's a beautiful name, but if popularity is going to bother you, I think it's just too trendy a sound right now. I actually stay away from all -el/la names as a rule, so even though I like Stella, Nell, and Annabel, I wouldn't use any of them right now.

Can I sell you on Araminta? It feels similar in style and you've got the Ara- sound in there... I think it's a beautiful, distinctive, under-used choice.

I have actually only ever met white guys named Dwayne or Duane. Many would classify themselves as "rednecks".

Jane P-

How about Aracelli/Araceli or even Aracella (with the "c" pronounced as a soft "s" sound)? It has a similar feel and even similar sounds, but is still distinctive. Although I do love Arabella as well.

Jane P-

I know of one just Belle and a couple Isabelles and Isabellas who are called Belle on occasion. They're a bit older though.

We do know quite a few little Ella and Ellies.

Arabella is too princess-y for my personal taste, though I love Annabelle.

Anyway, to answer your question, I don't think an Arabella would be lost in a crowd of Belles, but I think she would blend right in with many other names currently in style.
Many parents would see that as a big plus, while others would feel the opposite. Our older son is a Jack, and so far he gets a kick out of meeting other Jacks (which happens often).

Belle is a Disney Princess name--and believe me, little kids know it. There are a lot of Isabels and Isabellas under 10; I'm guessing some of them are Izzy (thanks Grey's Anatomy!), some may use Isa or Ellie, but Belle and Bella are also right up there. Then add in the Annabel/Annabellas, and all the other names that can use Belle as a nickname (Christabel, Mirabel, Arabella, etc.--even Jezebel, heh?), and it's a nickname getting a real workout right now.

Valerie -- Thanks for the update on Jack. Fascinating choice for the family and not what I would have expected. It's a nice, solid choice, though, and one I like a lot.

Steph P -- Congratulations on Ivy Delphine! You chose a beautiful name, and I agree that it would be priceless if you and hyz ended up with Ivy-August pairs.

Jane P -- While I think Arabella is a lovely name, I agree with those who have said the bella/ella/elle sound is truly saturated. I fear Arabella would be lost in the mix.

Thanks all for your takes on Arabella. I, too, am torn between it being so appealing and not too popular in itself on the one hand, and being lost in a crowd of Isabels, etc., on the other hand. It seems like no matter how often I cross Arabella off my list, I keep thinking, well... maybe.

I don't know if either of the twins is a girl yet, so I have time to think about it (further opinions would be only helpful).

Easternbetty: I feel that way about Arabella, too. That it is somehow different, more substantive than the others.

Clementine: I like Araminta, too, but my husband nixed it.