The Baby Name Wizard

Jane-

Could I interest you in Amara?
There is one in Jack's Sunday school class, and she's such a delight, that it's really grown on me.
They pronounce the middle part like car.

Jane P-If it wer eme and the only options I liked were AraCella or AraBella I think I'd pick the C because of the Bella popularity. Aracella sounds pretty and out-there but not completely to me. I'd have to put it on a "why not" list. (Till my husband vetoed it of course!) I kinda get a Sara/h sound until I really enunciate and get a Cella/celery vibe. Then I start thinking-hmm maybe not.

Easternbetty-I tend to agree with sarah smile. While the names start out NOT being the same because of their story, the do end up being the same because of there spelling. I also believe that that works reciprocally as well. As parents try to obtain uniqueness by spelling kre8tivlee they invariably end up with yet another Ayden/Aiden/Aadan/etc. They're all the same name. However, family name kre8tivity does not fit into the same pattern necessarily for me. If your ggrandfather spelled his name Loothur and you spell yours Luther. They are not the same even though you can say you were named after your ggrandfather. I don't kow why I feel this way-just do.

I know that I'm probably in the minority, but I think Arabella has a completely different feel than Isabella/Isabelle. Yes, the name can be shortened to Bella/Belle, but you don't have to shorten it to that if you don't want to. Go for what you love!

Above, Laura says that " Contribute your own ratings, opinions, siblings and insights...and even names." for Namipedia.

I am noticing pretty large number of names being added. Many of them ones I have never heard or very similar to ones already on there but with a spelling twist. I wonder if the coming weeks will bring some resources for Laura, moderators, or other users to mitigate this a bit. I'm sure there are worse things that could happen on a names wiki than a bunch of odd names flooding it. Anyone else have an opinion or thought about this?

I know at least five women who use one surname professionally and another personally. Over here in the UK, it doesn't seem to be that big a deal; they had to remember to tell their PA(me) to book their plane tickets in whatever name happened to match their passport, but there never were any other problems, not that I heard of at least. And I was very happy not to have to re-name all their IT accounts, reorder business cards, etc.

My husband and I (who do not have the same surname) frequently fly with our niece (who has the same surname as him) and nephew (who has his father's surname) and have never had any problems getting seats together. As far as I am concerned, the multiple surnames make us no less of a family. And I don't find it difficult to be scathing to anyone who might have the temerity to imply something else.

I followed the link to the 'how to avoid a hipster name' and read that article, and then ended up following a link from there to nameberry.com where I read a list of classic British girls names, which included Arabella. (Growing up I loved a book by Georgette Heyer titled Arabella, whose main character was an Arabella.) Anyway, I was happy to re-discover Arabella because I like Annabelle a lot and Arabella seems like a more unique option, and then I clicked back over here and discovered that an Arabella conversation had started! Small world I guess...

What do you all think of the name Zelda? I love it, but I'm concerned about the Legend of Zelda connection... is it separable from the video game association? Would parents be more likely to make the connection or would it be the kids? I only know the video game from when it came out in 80s, and although I know it's still around, I'm not sure how popular it is for kids today.

Clementine-
I'm not sure if Zelda is still popular among kids today. I can tell you, as a child of the 80s, that for me it is not separable from the video game. Maybe Zelma or Selma would work?

Clementine,

For me, Zelda is the video game and Zelda Fitzgerald.

May I recommend Zella, for the same "z" kick without the baggage. I know a 2 year old with that name.

NameMapper doesn't appear to be working for me right now--is it working for everyone else?

I get a blank screen with a red X in the left hand corner...any reason?

Clementine- I too think of the game for Zelda, but also, for some reason, of a bulldog. Is it just how my own mind works? Or is there something out there, because I swear I have a very clear picture in my head. Robin Williams also has a daughter named Zelda.

Trish, This website might explain the image of a bulldog that 'Zelda' conjures: http://www.zeldawisdom.com/index.shtml

Clementine, I definitely have the Legend of Zelda association, and I think I might've played that game once at my cousin's house. I really didn't have a lot of exposure to it, but for some reason the association is very strong--maybe because it *sounds* like a video game name to me? And because it's unusual enough that I don't have a lot else to associate it with? Someone on another board I read asked about this name a few months ago, and she got a mixed response. A lot of people had the video game association, and many other people suggested that the girl would have to be pretty spunky to "pull off that name." A few people really liked it, and thought it sounded strong, interesting, and old-fashioned.

Re: the hipster name article--I have mixed feelings. To the extent it criticizes people who pick names just to be "different and coold", but they're the same 25 names that everyone else picks to be different and cool, then yes, that's a humorous observation. To the extent that people pick those names *knowing* that they are considered "hip" and hoping to thereby mark themselves and their children as "hip", that is also susceptible of a certain amount of mockery. On the other hand, I don't think it's any better to specifically *avoid* certain names that you love for personal reasons just because you're afraid of being seen as someone trying to be hip. Either way, you're basing a very personal decision on trends of the moment and other people's approval. Or worse, by avoiding the "hip" names, you're trying to "out-hip" the hipsters and pick something they haven't laid any kind of claim to yet--does that make you better than the hipsters, the same, or worse? The whole thing seems a bit silly to me. The important thing is to pick a name that's meaningful to you personally. There's nothing wrong with investigating how others will view that name, and letting that influence your choice to some extent, but I don't think you can let that be your first and last concern (which I believe is what the article advocates--a blanket ban on all names of a certain type simply because of their association with hipsters, regardless of whatever other reasons you may have for loving the name). Of course, I broke the article's "rules" (Ivy is even one of the names Nameberry gives as a hipster name), but I don't feel abashed about it in the least. We picked that name based upon an number of criteria, and thought it out to perhaps an excessive extent, but whether it would make us look hip or not was not one of our concerns.

Easternbetty, your question about the two Chayas reminds me of something that I witnessed two or three years ago at our local science museum. A young mom, who looked to be about 20, was looking over a rack of personalized cups with her mother (who looked to be no older than 45) and her son, who was a toddler. She was complaining to her mother that she couldn't believe the museum didn't have a cup with the name Jayden on it, which I presume was her son's name. She then said, "Can you believe it? They have Juh-wan, but they don't have Jayden!" I was intrigued, to say the least, so as soon as she moved away, I looked over the "J"-themed cups. I found the cup in question... Juan. So are Juan and Juan the same name, even if they're pronounced differently? This is a slightly different take on your question, and a corollary to the question posed above out Loother and Luther. I think that Juan (pronounced the way Spanish-speakers pronounce it) and Juan (pronounced Juh-wan) are different names. Loother and Luther are different names. But Chaya and Chaya pronounced the same but arrived at differently? I think they're the same name but with different meanings to the families who have bestowed them.

Elizabeth T - your Juan observations remind me of The Pursuit of Love, when the Bolter brings home a non-English-speaking lover named Juan. The family use a variety of pronunciations: Gewan and Hoo-arn are two I remember. So I guess, different pronunciations make different names if they're attached to different people, but what about when people pronounce (mispronounce) one person's name in different ways?

News Flash! the birth of sextuplets was just announced in NYC today. The family kept it a secret for several weeks until the babies' conditions were more secure.

The parents are Ecuadorian, naturalized US citizens. They have an older son named Jhancarlos. The tups are named:

Justin
Danelia
Jezreel
Genesis
Joel
Jaden (of course)

Looks like all their sons have names that start with J, while the two girls have no system to their letters.

Incidentally, the father has a sister mentioned in the article named Eulalia. I sort of love it. Poe has a poem called "Eulalie" (about a beautiful dead woman...shocker). There's a nice entry about that name here: http://appellationmountain.net/2008/08/05/name-of-the-day-eulalie/

edited to add: Liz & Louka, that reminds me of the pronunciation of Byron's "Don Juan" (Jew-an). My spanish-speaking, non-Romantic-literature-reading husband nearly fell off his chair when he first heard me say that. I had to explain that I wasn't butchering the name, but giving it a literarily accurate pronunciation. He remains unconvinced.

Re: Same spelling
If two people have the same name but are very clearly from different ethnic/cultural backgrounds, and the name is rooted in one of their cultures, then I think that I see the names as distinct. Still the same name, but somehow the motivations of the parents are more plainly evident to me and they feel different from one another. (For example, meeting a white Jewish girl and a Black girl both named Shoshana.)

Re: Different spelling
This one is trickier for me because I am clearly biased. Now, I *know* that my name is technically the same name as "Karen" with just a small spelling change, but that one letter makes all the difference to me. When I see the name "Karen", there is definitely the spark of personal familiarity akin to hearing the name spoken, but seeing that "e" also makes that name most definitely not me. Even typing it feels quite foreign. I do feel more kinship to someone named "Karen" than basically any other name, but the two names are not the same to me. Funnily enough, I actually feel much more connection to someone named "Karin" than "Karen", presumably because both are less-common variants of the same name. There is that "Your name isn't "Karen" either" going on. I think that it's because I have spent my whole life correcting people's spelling and highlighting how my name is different from the one they assume.

DelinaRose- THANKS... that's exactly it. That pup is so darned adorable!

Coll- thanks for the newsflash- was that really Danelia or was it a typo for Daniela? I'm intrigued.

Sib set update- a few weeks ago I reported a sibset named Rebecca, Jericho and Gideon. Well, I met Gideon again yesterday and he told me they actually have three adult siblings called Daniel, Michael and Maia (sp?) as well. As my dh said, "Funny to put the Hindu Goddess of illusion alongside five Biblical names!" But I think they're a great sibset all the same. I would never have thought to use Jericho, but now I've met him, I'm a convert.

Clementine,

What about Zelie - I came across it when reading about St. Therese of Lisieux, Zelie was her mother's name. It has an accent on the first e but I have a crying baby and can't search for the accent...

Here's one way to arrive at Chana with the English ch sound: Chana Masala. Masala could also be a name, twins, perhaps. Other potential Indian buffet-inspired names: Pakora, Roti, Raita, Chutney (think Courtney, Britney...) Now I'm hungry.

my captcha is "in Delaney"

Bill- ooh, you've made me hungry too! I haven't had an Indian meal in ages. How about Tikka, Pasanda and Korma too?

i tried to leave a comment before..1st time writer here..perhaps pressing preview was not appropriate..

question..does anyone like monroe for a daughter?

our baby is due dec.11...i love the name monroe for a girl..hubby not so sure..

homage to marilyn

has anyone here known of a female monroe?

please share

kathy

Kathy--Wow! It is not often that this Name Enthusiast stumbles across a name she'd never considered (as a given name, anyway), but you've offered me one. I can't believe I never ruminated over Monroe as a first name!

I think it's stupendous. So very, very, different in sound from the --sons (Grayson, Madison); from the --ers (Carter, Cooper); from the Macs (Mackenzies). It's especially fresh on a girl, and not because of the Marilyn reference.

Color me very pleasantly surprised. I wholeheartedly support this name choice.

In other news: LOVE Elizabeth T.'s Juan story; the comments on the Chaya Dualism thus far; and the savory, sumptuous buffet of girls' names.

What other international buffets would make good names as well as good meals?

I dunno, my first impulse is that Marilyn Monroe is a strange namesake for a kid--a little too "sexy" an image and sad a story for me.

Monroe/Munro are fine names otherwise, and if you'd said you were naming your kid after a grandparent Monroe, I'd be less dubious. So it's not the name itself, but the explanation, that doesn't charm me.

I have a name query:

I recently overheard a dad address his very blonde little girl as what sounded like "Veya" (first syllable rhymed with "day"). I didn't hear them converse, so am not sure of their nationality. They looked Dutch or northern European. (I live in Vietnam, so there are expats from all over).

Is anyone familiar with this name? What is the origin and how is it spelled? Veya? Vaea? Vea?

Thanks!

My first thought was that it might be Freya? It could sound like Veya if someone doesn't pronounce their Rs strongly.

kathy, I also find it a bit odd to name a child after Marilyn Monroe, mainly because she is such a sex symbol. Coming across the name Monroe, my first thought would be President Monroe, rather than Marilyn... I would group Monroe with names like Kennedy, Reagan, Carter, etc. While it's not my style because of the associations it carries, I don't mind the sound, and I'm actually rather fond of girls' names that end on the -o sound. I agree that it's a fresh choice, but if you're stuck on the Marilyn Monroe thing, my vote would have to go to Marilyn instead.

On a girl, Monroe says Marilyn. On a boy, it says President.

I always thought that Monroe or Bacall would make a good tribute middle name.

I like the style of the name Monroe. My only reservation is that Marilyn Monroe isn't exactly a role model for a child.

Karyn- I feel the same way when I meet a girl that spells her name Rebecca rather than my spelling Rebekah. It is a completely different name to me. It is an odd thing if you think about it.

DelinaRose- That is funny how you connected the dots for her!

kathy-Sorry, but Monroe is just not my style. I am really not into the last name first trend. Especially if it is after Marilyn Monroe. When I first read it I thought the President, not the actress. IMHO I really don't think she is a good role model to be named after, but that is just me. Do you mind sharing the reason for it? Maybe you have another side we haven't thought of.

Are there any plans to get NameMapper working for Firefox? I used to have to load the NameVoyager in Explorer, but since the latest big reworking of Firefox, it's worked fine for me there.

Valerie, according to the paper it's Danelia, not Daniela.

Kathy, Monroe is not my style at all, but I like it! Very distinctive and somewhat stately--perhaps those round, open vowels?

If you love Marilyn Monroe and have your personal reasons for wanting to name a child after her, I'm not going to tell you not to. Though it is probably good to hear that the reactions of people you meet might not be totally positive. If that doesn't bother you, then pay no mind.

If you'd like other options, names I find similar to Monroe are:
Harlow
Shiloh (I don't like this name, for the record)
Indigo
Mona
Maura/Moira

A nice namesake/nickname for Marilyn is Merry. I think that's a sweet name (I knew a woman in England with that name, derived from Marilyn)

GilaB, I use Firefox and NameMapper works fine for me.

in response to the comments on monroe..

firstly thank you for your input..

i have always loved marilyn monroe~ i thought she was a luminous being whose bright light dimmed too early. i was touched by her troubled childhood and her longing for home; and her ability to transform herself from orphan to star

well; there it is~ k.

Hi kathy-- I also find "Monroe" a striking, fresh choice. You don't have to justify your reasons for liking the name. They may not be identical to mine, but the bottom line is, hey, it's an interesting pick, a venerable Scottish surname with an appealing sound.

As it happens, it has another vintage, Hollywood connection. F. Scott Fitzgerald's final, unfinished novel "The Last Tycoon" had as its protagonist a studio head named "Monroe Stahr". He was brilliant and enigmatic, like the real-life inspiration for the character, Irving Thalberg of MGM. (Or was it Twentieth Century Fox?)

But your twist of using it as a female name gives it added oomph. Just like "Percy" or "Chauncey" as male names seem a bit flaccid, but on a girl either could be adorable!

By the way, Coll, I like your mention of "Merry", which has always had an appealing, Ellizabethan ring to me. I read somewhere, believe it or not, that it was also used as a nickname for "Mercy", even though the two seem so divergent. Those medieval namers were pretty wild and crazy!
Would be lovely as short form for "Meredith" or "Meridian" etc. as well... Also like Welsh "Meri".

Karyn and Rebekah-- Ditto feelings about having a variant or more rare spelling. I feel a slight kinship with the similarly-spelled name, but still see it as a separate entity with a different aura entirely.

I do think growing up having to spell your name CONSTANTLY for others could be ONE of the elements that goes into the making of a rabid name enthusiast...

Karyn, Rebekah, and Eo-May I join the club as well? As a Stacey, I often feel affinity to other Stacy/Stacie's but yet it's not my name as I spell it "with the E". It's even hard for me to type it W/O the E because I am simply not used to it.

Kathy-While I find Monroe nms. I don't think its so completely out there as to be unusable. I do find it resonates more boy to me. However, your explanation is valid. How about something like Diana? Now many may be going "huh??" about now but let me explain. Elton John wrote his song "Candle in the Wind" about Marilyn Monroe and then modified it after Princess Diana died because she equally had her flame extinguished WAY too early. I believe this would be a great person to name after. She was very humanitarian. Even though she wasn't a celebrity per se she became one in the eyes of many for her work with underpriviledged children.

Corazon wrote: I am noticing pretty large number of names being added. Many of them ones I have never heard or very similar to ones already on there but with a spelling twist. I wonder if the coming weeks will bring some resources for Laura, moderators, or other users to mitigate this a bit. I'm sure there are worse things that could happen on a names wiki than a bunch of odd names flooding it. Anyone else have an opinion or thought about this?

I've noticed the large number of new names too and have checked out a few of them. I think it's very helpful when the person putting forth the name adds something about the name. In fact, I wonder if that could be a requirement.

I also feel some concern that expectant parents seeking a name could think that all names in Namipedia have been vetted by baby name expert Laura Wattenberg. Personally, I would hope that Namipedia would not promote, even inadvertently, non-standard spellings and 'out of nowhere' names.

I agree with your suggestion of resources for Laura, moderators or other users to mitigate this a bit. I suppose one could already do so in the comment section for each name, but I think it would be even better if some standards were set and new names that don't meet those standards deleted.

Kathy, I'm wondering if you've read a complete biography of Marilyn Monroe -- not just about her tragic childhood, but chronicling her equally tragic adulthood too. It's likely that at some point your daughter would want to find out all about Marilyn Monroe if she were given the very unusual name of "Monroe" because of that actress. Personally, I don't think Marilyn Monroe is a good role model for a young girl. I'd suggest you express your fondness for Marilyn Monroe in other ways and not through naming your baby girl M M's surname, which wasn't even her real name but one chosen for her, Hollywood-style.

What other names are you considering?

Eo wrote: I do think growing up having to spell your name CONSTANTLY for others could be ONE of the elements that goes into the making of a rabid name enthusiast...

I totally agree. In my case, it was my last name that was difficult for people to deal with. It's German and totally unknown in the UK where I grew up. There are very few German names there. Funnily enough, since I've come to live in the US, people have much less difficulty with my last name, but much more with my first. That's the one I'm constantly having to spell ("No, it's not Vallery/ Valari, etc. etc.). I have to restrain myself from yelling,"Those aren't variants, they are just WRONG".

I think Keren might also agree here?

I like the sound of Monroe, but think I would prefer it more on a boy. Still, like Harlow, I think it sounds pretty snappy either way. No comment here on MM as a namesake--to each their own.

Vallery? Valari? Ouch. Dealing with that would make me twitchy, Valerie.

I TOTALLY agree with Patricia's concern about names that are added in the namipedia implicitly having Laura's stamp of authenticity/giving the wrong impression. I hope something can be done to prevent that--maybe some sort of prominent disclaimer on all names added by users?

"...maybe some sort of prominent disclaimer on all names added by users?"

Good idea, hyz.

So what happens to user-added names? I tried the Advanced Baby Name Finder to see if a specific, very unusual (questionable) name added a while back would come up with the criteria: girl/K/3 syllable/rare, but it didn't come up. It would seem that eventually there would be HUGE lists of rare names -- unless those names don't go into the Name Finder pool. ???

See, I'm a Sarah and I definitely think that Sara is the same name. It's an alternate spelling - and of course mine is right :) - but it's the same history and the same pronounciation. When I count up how many Sara(h)s there are in a particular group (which I've done many times in my life), I include both spellings. Obviously if there is a mix it makes it easier to keep track of who is who, but it's still the full count that affects how conscious I am of being one of many.

sarah smile, I'm wondering if you would consider "Sairah" or some other 'novel' spelling -- still pronounced the same as Sarah/Sara -- to be the same name? Both Sarah and Sara are established spellings of this classic name. According to "Oxford Dictionary of First Names," Sarah is the Old Testament form of the name and Sara, the "variant" form used in the Greek of the New Testament. I would agree that Sarah and Sara are the same name, but would not count any other spellings as being the same name.

I have a particular attachment to the name as Sarah is the name of my first grandchild. I've always loved the name (and for me, Sara is 'not quite' Sarah, but that's just my way of looking at the name).

New babies alert:

Conn0r Patr1ck
Nath4n M4tth3w

Picked for sound. Yawn...

Re: Monroe. Sounds like a Southern boy was given his mama's maiden name. I like it for a boy. Now, if you want to honor that famous suicidal beauty, Norma Jean gets my vote.

I've never met a Jew named Jude, only Judah (or Yehuda).

KneeCoal Peay-
I am so interested in your post because one of the things that I always mull over is what makes a name yawn-worthy?

You (and I know you're not alone) had that reaction to names like Connor and Nathan, but what would feelings less common, but less-NE-pleasing names like Kinley and Teagan conjur?

I guess I always wonder what lies in the space between a yawn and a cringe.

sorry should be what feelings would...

kathy- I do not know any girls named Monroe, but I LOVE it. :)