The Baby Name Wizard

I like Evander despite the Holyfield association.
One of my favourites is Leander, but I sadly think it's too trendy where I live and will be outdated by the time I have kids.

Re: 3 syllable English names with the same stress as Hyacinth...that's not so easy, is it?
I came up with Rosalind, Cecily, Thomasine (I guess the "real" English form is Thomasina, but I could see Thomasine pron. THOM-a-seen).

I have to say that I loved maps before I loved names (and that’s saying a lot, given the early age of becoming an NE, though I was actively discouraged from reading naming books at an early age). I’m also into history and linguistics. I often say that I love learning about people and places and the world around me, and I think that my love of names fits perfectly with my love of those things.

I know a twenty-something Betsy who I would also describe as hip bordering on hipster. She is also extremely smart and super-nice. I believe Betsy is actually her given name – the first person I ever met for whom that was the case.

Gabriel is a name that I love, but couldn’t use because of association (and because that association is my little cousin). He is a smart, sweet kid – with a heavy dose of “spirit” shall we say? And while I understand why some would go with the Spanish pronunciation, I think that the English pronunciation is equally common. I also find it odd that they would attempt to use Gabby as a nickname instead of Gabe. Most Gabriels I know go by Gabe (except the little one mentioned above who is of the “parents use the whole name” generation and goes by Gabe and Gabriel interchangeably).

Tocoah looks at first glance like Tacoma and at second glance like tapioca. It’s a little too “out there” for my tastes, but I’m more of a classics kind of girl. I can maybe see its appeal in a modern sort of way.

hyz, it’s funny that the first time I read “Hyacinth Soh” I said it really fast and wasn’t thrilled with the lispy-ness of it (and I have a slight lisp at times, so I’m very aware of that aspect of names). Then I reread it with strong enunciation, and really liked it. Then, I said it fast again and still didn’t care for the lispy-ness. I see why you’re drawn to it. And I don’t know who above mentioned not thinking that the first-last combination doesn’t get used often. I think it does. A lot.

Also, regarding Ivy – hardiness is exactly a word I was trying to come up with yesterday. When I was composing my description, I wrote (and then deleted) a very long item that amounted to “hardy.” I actually have that nature association with the name too, but am not sure if it is one I naturally make, or if I make it because I now associate the name so closely with you and your quest for a “nature name” for your daughter. I know that some time ago you mentioned concerned about Ivy’s connection to the American Girl dolls (which are absolutely fantastic, btw, though I understand your concern with the association), and I have to say, I think that you and I have just described the ideal American Girl doll in describing an Ivy!

Not sure if either of these places is where the name comes from, but from Wikipedia:

Tekoa (Hebrew: תקוע‎) is a communal settlement and Israeli settlement in the northern Judean hills in the West Bank.

Tuqu' (Arabic: تقوع‎) is a Palestinian town in the Bethlehem Governorate located twelve kilometers southeast of Bethlehem. Tuqu' (also Spelled Taqua (officially) or Teqoa (unofficially)) has Biblical importance as it was where Joab procured a "wise woman", who pretended to be in great affliction and skillfully made her case known to David.

Just wanted to say I love the name Betsy spelled either way. The Betsey spelling makes me think of the fashion designer Betsey Johnson, who is definitely spunky and hip. BTW, I just found out her daughter is named Lulu, and her granddaughter is Layla.

Eighteen year old NE here. I got my first name book a few months ago at a thrift store (I trawled the internet long before that) and had to explain to the woman that I'm just interested in names. I got the BNW a moth or two ago at the local Borders with boyfriend in tow. Bless her soul, the woman behind the counter didn't bat an eyelash. I brought it to school today (there's a teacher whose wife is expecting and I'm trying to help him out) and got a few strange looks, but I haven't gotten and real negative feedback yet, except from my friends who tell me to shut up about names since I'm talking about them all the time!

Here's another question for all of you guys (who aren't married, I guess): How does your SO like your obsession? Has it ever made anyone think you're getting too serious too fast? Do you work your SO's family names when making combos? I'm especially interested in the answers of those who aren't having kids any time soon.

My boyfriend is actually very amused and not creeped out by my enthusiasm for names; In fact, he'll usually chat names with me for a while if I bring up one that's intriguing enough.

Eo and Amy3, I love maps! My entire bottom shelf of my rather large bookcase is devoted to various atlases and historical map collections, and the middle section holds all my old baby name books, which I've been reading since my sister was named when I was just shy of 6! My sister, our best friend and I all were into name books together for a time when we were 12, 11, and 6, but I seem to be the only one who's maintained this love.

I seriously wonder if there's a link between a love of geography and a fascination with names? Also, I was wondering what discipline all of you are most affiliated with. I majored in English, which makes me think that maybe names are part of my love of language. Are we all humanities types, or is this theory wrong?

What's a good middle name for Harriet?

Re: Tacoa(h) -- I think I'd want the H on the end, otherwise it really looks too much like taco. It has a nice sound, but isn't a name I'd choose myself.

Re: Evander -- There is a large hs in NYC, Evander Childs (didn't have the greatest reputation, now broken up into many small schools within a school). That's all I can think of when I hear the name Evander.

I think it's so fun (although probably not all that surprising) that so many of our interests intersect. I also love words, history, typefaces ... Ash said: "I often say that I love learning about people and places and the world around me, and I think that my love of names fits perfectly with my love of those things." That describes me perfectly! In fact, a friend once asked me how I could stand to read National Geographic when many of the articles can be kind of depressing. I told him I loved to learn, even when it hurts!

Cat -- I sometimes think my husband worries that I want another baby when I talk names with him, but I think he's making peace (finally!) with my obsession.

Katie -- I majored in sociology with a minor in geography, but my master's is in library science, which is a common choice for people who like to learn a little bit about a lot of things.

I seem to always think of something else after I've posted. Oh well.

I just wanted to add that I myself have a very short and snappy FN/LN combo - Katie OneSyllableLastName that is also a girl's name. People tend to find it memorable when your name is short and sweet like that. Unfortunately, this caused a lot of people to just call me FN LN all the time, regardless of whether there were other Katies in the room. They all thought it was cute and funny, but I actually didn't like it too much. It felt distant, although I know they all did it out of familiarity. Also, if people called me both names around people who don't know me, those people sometimes thought my name was actually FN-LN, like Mary-Ann. This is really a particular problem of mine, and probably wouldn't apply to an Ivy Soh, as Soh isn't an English first name, but it could happen.

Now, keep in mind, I wrote all that about being Katie-LN for years and years, but I'm planning on naming my first born daughter Ivy My1syll.LN His1syll.LN. HIS last name is also a one syllable girl's name (I know, what are the odds). The name will be very short. But I don't think she'll ever have to hear Ivy LN like a compound name - nor will yours - as Ivy is more distinctive than Katie. Or maybe it is a rhythmic thing. People love saying my name like that. I don't know - but it really hasn't been a bad thing. People never forget my name.

My vote goes for Hyacinth over Ivy. Although I love Ivy and considered for my first child, I just have this sneaking feeling it is going to become very popular in the next few years and will eventually seem time-stamped. I see it moved up 33 places in the past year. I have the same image of an Ivy as most of the posters on this blog and also fear that because it conjures up such a beautiful, smart, spunky girl all the more reason I can see a lot of people choosing it. Hyz- I know this isn't necessarily a concern for you, but this is just the reason we took it off our list.

I can't see this happening to Hyacinth. It will never be a Violet or a Lily. I also like that it is little more unusual. It's a lovely name. Is it really that big a deal if you need to enunciate a little when saying Hyacinth Soh? I think it's a fun name to say over and over. It keeps popping up in my mind now that I've heard it.

Regarding interest in naming, I too have had a strong interest since childhood. I have always linked this interest with my general mild obsessive complusiveness. I have always loved to categorize, order and list just about everything. I wonder if OCD is common amongst NEs??

My naming dilema is still on choosing a middle name to go with Philippa. I have 3 months to figure it out. Since Philippa is very feminine and formal sounding, I want something that is one-syllable and simple but nothing as standard as Ann or Jane. I keep thinking Phillipa Tate but am not sure. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Hyz,
Have you considered Marjorie? Nature name, three syllables, and it goes well with your last name (to my ear, anyways!). Marjorie's been growing on me, lately. It's probably just a tad too "recent" to be back on the hip list (maybe in 15 years it will be?), but with the nickname Jo it certainly makes my shortlist.

Steph P,
I really like Phillipa Tate!

Steph what's wrong with "standard"

remember you are naming a human being - weird name on professional forms when she is an adult - yeah....

What about Phillipa Tatiana ?

So much fun reading about you other map/atlas/geography lovers! For a while I wondered if my early, very specific interests in these reflected some kind of anomaly, like my left-handed/"right brained-ness"! Or, maybe it was some permutation of autism? But I'm too "science-challenged" to know about that...

Jessica-- YES, to a wallpapered map room! And how clever of you to think of doing up a laundry room that way! It would go a long way toward relieving the tedium of sorting and folding!

I'll tell you another, more frivolous obsession that, to me, seems related-- a love of monograms! I've always loved seeing them, my own and especially other people's interesting ones.

Amy3, you mentioned typefaces. It was thrilling to come across a sample of Bette Davis's personalized stationery-- seeing the "font" she used, etc. The letters were in red ink and I THINK were vaguely Art Deco-- how appropriate!

When we were naming Banks, it was important to me for him to have a monogram I liked, that still used the family names we wanted to incorporate. I kind of juggled the initials around until "B.H.P.O.S" struck my fancy!

And I love it when names and initials become "visuals" to decorate rooms with. That's why I love finding a few select prints and posters with my child's name on them. You are surrounding yourself with appealing word/images, along the lines of Jessica's map room idea...

When I say I don't want a "standard" middle name what I really mean is I don't want to choose a middle as an afterthought. It seems that everyone I grew up with had either Marie or Anne as a MN. I would like to put as much thought into the middle name as I am the first name. I'm just having a hard time coming up with a one-syllable name to balance a name like Philippa.

Steph P.

I like Philippa Tate.

Some other possibilities:

Philippa Reese

Philippa Blythe

Philippa Bee

Philippa Brynn

Philippa Gayle

Philippa Joy

Philippa Shae

Philippa True

Philippa Wynn

Thanks for the ideas, AK. Bee is cute and I like Wynn.

Not a problem! I went to www.babynamesworld.com and used the advanced search to limit it to unisex names that were exactly one syllable. Fun stuff!

anouk--No, I think the -ee ending is pretty stable; the 30s had Shirley and Billie, the 40s had Betty and Polly, the 50s had Patty and Peggy, the 60s had the -acies, the 70s had Kimberly, the 80s had Amy, and the 90s had the -aileys and Hallie. If anything I'd worry about the trendiness of vowel-v-vowel (Ava, Eva, Ivy).

Hyz,
A little off topic, but my blonde haired, blue eyed uncle married a dark skinned/featured woman from Ecuador. His first two kids look Hispanic. His third child looks just like him, coloring and all. In fact, when his wife took the kids to the pediatrician he asked if the youngest was a family friend! They've had two more since then who both look Latino, so go figure. An anomaly I'm sure, but you never really know.

I don't think Ivy requires dark hair though. I think of Ivy more in terms of being a free spirit and a little eccentric. Ivy is to hippy/environmentalism what Catherine or Elizabeth are to traditionalism, at least in my point of view.

I would never choose the name Ivy, but I would never feel sorry for a child with that name. It's perfectly acceptable, and is actually getting pretty mainstream. I've ran across a couple at the park as of late. One was a little blonde haired girl. The other was dark headed.

Steph P -- I still really like Philippa Tate. It's got a wonderful ring to it.

Amy3 -- I was also a sociology major who now has a masters in library science!
and add me to the list of people who also has always loved maps. growing up, we had a big atlas that i would look at all the time. we also had a big dictionary that had a names section at the end -i used to read it all the time! i was such a nerdy child.

Hi... yet *another* 18-year-old NE here - I used to comment here all the time, but then I got sort of busy so I've been silent for a while. Wow, I hadn't realized there were so many! I've been obsessed with names for years, and it's interesting to see that many of the names that were on my original name list from when I was about 12 or so (ie. creative -lyn names, K- names) are now the horrible trendy names that we all seem so desperate to avoid... my naming taste has changed quite a bit since then, I'm happy to say. I'm still in college, not quite 'over-educated' yet, but I should have a masters in a few years and I'm still trying to decide about whether I want a PhD. I don't really have a map obsession though - it's interesting that so many of you do.

And yes, my SO is aware of and comfortable with my name obsession... although he doesn't necessarily like all of the names I've picked out, I think we have plenty of time before we ever have to choose one for real. ^_^

Ah, and I also run a baby naming forum at http://namethatbaby.mit.edu/. I probably should've left the word 'baby' out of the title, since it's much more about names than babies, but I was just trying to come up with a catchy URL at the time and that was the best I could think of.

Amy3 and Dee- Thanks for the vote of confidence in Philippa Tate.

Katie: I'm from the humanities field. I have an arts degree with a major in sociology and a law degree (with most of my electives being social issues type ones). My interest is names is more on the sociological perspective: why do certain people choose certain names, what do trends say about society etc?

Cat: My SO is also very understanding of the obsession. He'll listen to me ramble about the happenings of this boad for hours on end. He even plays along with my naming jokes. When I joked that I had decide to name my children alphabetically (as in baby 1 gets fn starting with A, mn starting with B, baby 2 gets fn starting with C, mn starting with D) he happily agreed to call our hypothetical children Abalone Brigidier and Canelone Digibrb. (My actual naming tastes are definitely nothing like my joke ones!)

Also...

Hyz: I prefer Ivy to Hyacinth. I could definitely picture an eccentric/strong woman Ivy, but I have equal associations with the name to a small, elegant Asian girl/woman. In my mind she has a pretty dress with a sash around the waist, white socks with lace, shiny black mary janes, straight black hair to her mid black and plays the piano beautifully.

Steph P: I quite like Phillipa Tate. I think the sytles compliment each other well.

RE: Katie

I work in architecture, which has an interesting balance between art and engineering. I have a great interest in art but have a great tendency toward precision. But I suppose my NE tendancies lean toward my right brain arty side.

I have to admit that I hate Hyacinth - sounds very pretentious to me, and I immediately think of Hyacinth Bucket. Just my opinion though. Also Ivy makes me think of an intravenous drip (IV) And I think it would get mixed up with all the many Evie girls.

Love love love Caspian though.

Cat – I was actually coming over to not only check up on the conversation but also to confess that today, my bf (of not nearly long enough to discuss baby names) found out about the NE thing when he asked me if I liked the name of an acquaintance’s baby that was too trendy for my taste. He took it remarkably well and we talked about names and NE stuff a bit. Then, later in the evening, he saw me looking at his fish – and immediately called me out on naming them while I was sitting there. Poor fish didn’t have names – doesn’t any good NE have to remedy that?

And another vote in favor of Philippa Tate before I go to bed.

Steph P.:

Philippa Beth?
Philippa Rose (which is almost as standard as Anne or Jane, I know)?
Philippa Quinn?
Philippa Lou?
Philippa Jen?
Philippa Dee?
Philippa Kate?
Philippa Jade?
Philippa Sue?
Philippa Pen?

finally, I see Nicole a lot as a middle name - obviously not one syllable but I do think it works.

right, back to work...

Steph P.-- I also think "Philippa Tate" an inspired choice. I also liked the suggestion of "Philippa Wynn(e". Also, "Philippa Clare".

Another one syllable name which I think is under-used is "Rue", an appealing botany name. "Philippa Rue" might have too "bucolic" a ring for your taste, but I like it. Rue also has been used as a nickname for the stately "Ruth". And it playfully reminds me of Winnie the Pooh's little kangaroo friend "Roo".

I wonder if people are scared off by one of the connotations of rue, "regret", as in "rueful"? That doesn't bug me for some reason...

hyz-- I still love "Ivy" for you, but I've always liked "Hyacinth"! That TV character was vastly amusing (that actress, is it Penelope Something, is a comedic genius) and wouldn't deter me at all.
It will be the most obscure of references when your daughter is growing up anyway...

Someone made the point that "Ivy" will be a bit trendy, while it's highly unlikely that "Hyacinth" will. That wouldn't worry me greatly, BUT, if I liked both names equally, it might tip the balance toward H.
"Hyacinth" seems to me to belong in the more esoteric flower-name category, like "Jonquil" or "Narcissa", and it just won't be as widespread as "Rose" or even "Poppy". (I love those too!) And, I think "Hyacinth" could adapt to any child, even an athletic, energetic one. I like off-beat casting. And the nickname possibilities are intriguing.

You have a winner with either Ivy or Hyacinth, in my view...

Add me to the list of those who love maps, with a particular weakness for historical maps with that hand-drawn look. I was a history major in college—first I studied ancient Greece and Rome, then changed my focus to eighteenth-century England, and then went to graduate school to work on eighteenth-century women novelists before deciding that academia was not for me and bailing out with a master's degree. One of my favorite little tidbits of Roman history: through the late Republic and for awhile after, Roman girls were not given their own names—they just got the feminine form of their fathers' family names. Gaius Julius Caesar's daughter was Julia, Marcus Tullius Cicero's daughter would have been Tullia. If there were two daughters, they were Julia Maior and Julia Minor. If there were three, they were Julia Prima, Julia Secunda, Julia Tertia. Talk about restrictions on naming!

Eighteenth-century English novels are also a treasure trove of fancy girls' names: Pamela, Clarissa, Arabella, Evelina, Belinda, Emmeline... Also, back in the day, Maria and Sophia were pronounced ma-RYE-ah and so-FYE-ah (rhymes with pariah).

My fiancé has been pretty understanding of the whole name obsession, though he occasionally teases me about it. I can also foresee him being very difficult when it comes time to actually choose a name—he's one of those who wants veto power, and vetoes a LOT, but won't actually come up with suggestions except for as a joke (i.e. boys named Mario and Luigi, à la Super Mario Brothers). So far he has vetoed two of my favorite boys' names, James and Jonathan, because he doesn't like the letter J, and my favorite girl's name, Liesel, because it rhymes with weasel. Sigh.

Incidentally, he also has a snappy one-syllable last name that I'm finding tricky to deal with, especially because it starts with the letter R and I'm finding that many of the names I like have prominent Rs (Alexander, Theodore, Victoria, Claire, Mira... grrrrrr)

Catching up on a few more comments here...

Mia--Rosalind is one I was pushing for, and really love, but DH strongly thinks of it as an old lady name. Maybe I'll be able to get him to come around if we ever have another girl. Thomasine is not my style, but I could definitely like Cecily if it weren't for a few issues (too many S sounds with LN, "blind" meaning, and it sounds a bit like an adverb to me, but I could get over that, lol).

Ash--Hardiness is something I really like about Ivy (as a plant), similar to my previous love, Holly, which DH nixed (actually, he now says he'd consider it, but I feel it's been sullied by his initial *strong* negative reaction...).

Katie--I've known some people who are often called by their full name, as you mention. I guess it could be considered a compliment to the parents, for choosing such a rhythmic or otherwise pleasing combination, but I can see how that could get annoying, too. I'm sure it must've been really tempting with a common FN in both the FN and LN spots. Like you say, it will probably be more of a rarity in either of our future situations.

Steph P.--you asked about a tendency towards OCD, and I definitely have that. I don't think it's diagnosable or anything, but since it has the ability to both immensely help with my goals, or to hinder them when I'm obsessed over something unproductive and unable to pull myself away easily, I'd say it's in the OCD spectrum.

I agree the Hyacinth combination is fun. I ran it by DH last night and he hemmed and hawed a bit--sounds like he'd consider it, but isn't immediately thrilled. And re: Ivy, the increasing popularity actually makes me feel a bit more comfortable with it, but it's a fine line--I'm happy with it becoming familiar, but I don't want it to become trendy. We'll see....

Like the others, I love Philippa Tate. I also like the suggestion of Philippa Gayle (or Gail), and I'd also like May/Mae or June as a MN there. I also like Eo's Clare suggestion.

Dee--Marjorie isn't quite my style--I get too much Marge Simpson from it. I've suggested Margaret and even Marguerite to DH, but he isn't biting.

Guest--We weren't going for a true hippie name, but if Ivy is an emblematic name for today's environmentalist children, I think you've just made me appreciate the name even more. I'm wondering where you live that you have that impression, and that you know so many Ivies. We have a nice little community of environmentalists in my midwestern-feeling city, but it's a pretty conservative place for naming, so our environmentalist friends' kids here still have names like Sam, Peter, Julia, Bronwyn, Milo, etc. Actually, I'd say a good 75% of my friends all across the country could qualify as environmentalists, and while there has been some emphasis on the flower names (Rose, Lily, Lilah, Violet, Calla), I've never heard of an Ivy.

Clara--maybe our (potential) Ivy would meet both of your descriptions! lol. Although she's unlikely to be very petite, since both DH and I are tall--but we can still go for elegant! And the piano thing fits, too--DH is a classical pianist (in his spare time, at the moment), and already has firm plans to set our daughter to the piano at a tender age.

Keren--I do appreciate the honest feedback--better to know now than later! I wonder if Hyacinth sounds much different in the UK than the US. Here, it seems people think of Hyacinth Bucket or nothing (which was why I was worried it was too "out there"), and I'd guess that Americans who've ever heard of Hyacinth Bucket are disproportionately represented on this board.

Eo--thanks for the vote of confidence either way! And who knows--maybe one day we'll end up with one of each. I do have this probably unhealthy temptation to have a bunch of children (partially) so I can name them all (for some reason I think naming will get easier after the first one), but I'm sure that urge will be cured once I have my hands full with a few actual children. ;) I do like the esoteric flower names. I actually considered Jonquil, but DH didn't like the "jonk" sound (immature boy humor), and I could love Narcissa if it weren't the base for narcissist, etc. I agree that Hyacinth falls in that category (for me, anyway). Actually, I like almost all botanical names--I'm going to have to really work to stop myself from naming all my children after things in the garden--I don't want to be overbearingly themey (or do I?...lol).

Katie -- re: degrees, my bachelors is in English (writing/communications tract, rather than literature) with a minor in Spanish; my masters is in writing and language. I'm not so into maps, but I do love linguistics, which naming fits into very well!

Hyz -- re: Jacinta, yes I say it with a "J" rather than an "H" -- I think it's because the Jacinta I chose my confirmation name after is the Portuguese child saint, and everyone I know who's familiar with that saint uses the "J" pronunciation (though the "H" pronunciation is certainly the correct one).

Oh yeah, and on the topic of studies, I was a Comparative Literature major (English/German), and Women's Studies minor. Very marketable, lol. Then, it was off to law school, which is, in fact, more marketable.

I'm at work, so I haven't had time to read all of the comments. I'll have to catch up this weekend...

Anyway, I don't know if someone has already mentioned this as a possible pop culture Betsy (sorry if I'm repeating). On the last season of That 70's Show, Kelso and his girlfriend named their daughter Betsy. I think it's an adorable name. I knew a Betsy born in 1975, and she was the only one of that age group!

Also, I went to visit a friend and her new baby yesterday, Brayden :/ Anyway, her 6 year old's (Christopher) first grade class sent a congratulations on the new baby card and I tried to commit most of the names to memory to post here. This is a fairly middleclass, mostly (but not entirely) white group of kids:

Jakob
Jack
Emma
Graylie
Bennett
Chrissy
Mady
Michelle
Grayson
Sarah

There were others, but I think I've forgotten them. Interstingly enough, there were no repeats.

Unrelated to where the conversation has wandered, I had my ultrasound yesterday, and I'm having another boy. So Juliana Patricia Jane is not to be.

I was playing around on Nymbler last night and was generally appalled by the results. I put in my boys' names and Alasdair, Oliver, Jonathan and Benjamin. I got a few other favorites, like Simon and Lawrence, but then the suggestions dove into the super trendy last names - things like Fletcher and Washington. From there, it started giving me obscure foreign names like Giacomo. So, I'm pretty much where I started.

Hyz, I know what you mean. I figured that after I got my MA in Comp. Lit. that my marketability had decreased so much that I had no choice but to go for the doctorate! :),

Amusingly, to me at least, other RATatat-tat names include such popular favorites like Pamela, Jessica, Jonathan, and yes, Jennifer.

Jennifer, that was my experience with Nymbler, too. I don't know where they come up with some of those suggestions. But, I think where you started is excellent--I still love Alasdair and Oliver, and the others are lovely, too. Congrats on the little boy!!

Elizabeth T.--hope that worked for you! I just picked comp. lit. because I really wanted an excuse to learn another language. Very fun, but only somewhat practical....

Dash--yes, it's a common enough sound--the real challenge is finding names in that pattern that we actually like!

"Also, back in the day, Maria and Sophia were pronounced ma-RYE-ah and so-FYE-ah (rhymes with pariah)."

Actually those are still the English language pronunciations, although it is more common to hear those names pronounced with continental vowels, as in Italian or Spanish(Ma-ree-a and So-fee-a). This demonstrates the working of the Great Vowel Shift (the long vowels each moved up and forward one position in the mouth), when the high front vowel 'ee' could not move any higher or more forward and broke into the diphthong I (as in the pronoun I). Mariah Carey, for example, uses the English pronunciation (I assume the 'h' was added as some sort of pronunciation clue), and it also occurs in the song "They call the wind Maria" (which some will be old enough to remember). The mom of one of Edward's schoolmates was Sophia with the English (as opposed to the continental)pronunciation--her dad was a classics professor and presumably knew his way around comparative linguistics.

If I were naming a daughter Sophia for some reason (like naming her after my mother Sylvia, for example), I would definitely use the English language pronunciation rather than the continental. I, of course, would never name a daughter Maria (either pronunciation), since it is a form of my own name.

I'm a long-time lurker on this board, and I just had to weigh in on a couple of the discussions here. Regarding Hyacinth: I personally like the name, but I have trouble hearing it as a female name because I first heard of it in reference to St. Hyacinth of Poland. For a girl, I really like Jacinta. I love this name pronounced with the correct "h" sound at the beginning, though I sadly let go of that name because I knew my child would have to constantly correct the pronunciation. While I also like the pronunciation with a "j" sound, it grates on me to say a Spanish name incorrectly. I may just have to use it as a middle name.

Regarding the facinating discussion of honorifics: My thought is to call people by a more formal title until they say you may use the less formal form of address. As far as classroom honorifics go, I currently tell my students to call me either Mrs. LN or my FN, whichever they feel more comfortable using. I got married while teaching as a graduate student, so back then I told my students I prefered to be called by my FN, since I would still be tempted to look for my MIL when I heard my new title! It felt strange to me to be called Mrs. LN by students who often were the same age or older than me, since our campus has a large number of returning adult students. Sometimes students try to call me Dr. LN, but I correct them since I did not go on for a Ph.D., and in the end, I usually get about half the class using my FN and half using Mrs. LN. I ask students what they prefer to be called, but I never could bring myself to call one young man "Bud" as he requested.

One other little quirk of titles I ran into: When I got married, a number of the friends of my younger siblings (high school students) started calling me "Mrs. LN." I was stunned, and told them that if they called me FN before the wedding, they were more than welcome to continue doing so. I'd known them for years...and I have to say that they are very polite young men and women!

Amber Rose?

Julianne Lynn?

Jessica Marie?

Gennievive Catherine?

Vanessa Anne?

Amy Caroline?

"Amusingly, to me at least, other RATatat-tat names include such popular favorites like Pamela, Jessica, Jonathan, and yes, Jennifer."

My full maiden name was a double dactyl--Miriam X//.

There was a popular word game some years ago involving thinking up double dactyls, but, for the life of me, at the moment I cannot remember the particulars. My son's name is a triple trochee (X/ X/ X/), although that was not intentional. One more foot, and he would have been an incantation. (Incantations are traditionally trochaic tetrameter--"Double, Double, toil and trouble").

Yes, the young English actress Sophia Myles uses the So-FYE-uh pronunciation.

In the US, you'd have to work pretty hard to make that stick, I suspect. It would be a bit like American parents insisting on the "Rafe" pronunciation of Ralph. It can come off as trying-too-hard, unless you're actually English; and I'm not sure how many of their kids keep up the insistence into adulthood.

You could change the spelling to be clear that you're rhyming with Soraya, Amaya, etc. But I suspect parents who choose a popular classic like Sophia aren't looking to be that different...

One of my favorite English movies growing up had a character named muh-RYE-uh, and the credits indeed showed that it was spelled Maria. I love the name and pronunciation myself -- though I'd use the "h" on the end, so the pronunciation would be more obvious -- but my husband cannot get past Mariah Carey. (And Lorien -- I too am only familiar with the male St. Hyacinth of Poland.)

wow, stay off the computer for a day and it takes 20 minutes to catch up!

In no particular order:
I like Philippa Tate. Is this a name I've heard elsewhere? it might just have a great ring to it.

As I've said before, I love Gabriel/Gabe and can't figure out why anyone would think its a girl's name. I've *almost* gotten over my irritation about not being able to use it b/c of family associations.

Hyacinth Soh is fun to say but the lisp bothers me. I like Ivy better but then, my daughter has an 'I' name. Which is apparently time-stamped even though she's named for my grandmother and I'd been planning on an Iris for about 10 years (although as a middle name). Anyhow, Ivy has a serious/smart demeanor with a wild streak to my mind. And isn't that a great combination?

speaking of Hyacinth Bucket--my DH is currently obsessed with the name Onslow (her BIL). I just can't go there.

Maps: in our last home I wallpapered the main hallway with maps. But then, I should have gone for a phd in Geography and not a more straight forward science. Geography is my mental (academic) home.

And flower names in general: I've been re-reading a book set in the Victorian Era (although written in the 90s) with a family of flowers: Iris, Rose, Pansy and Eglantine. I had to look up Eglantine, apparently its a variety of wild rose.

wow, stay off the computer for a day and it takes 20 minutes to catch up!

In no particular order:
I like Philippa Tate. Is this a name I've heard elsewhere? it might just have a great ring to it.

As I've said before, I love Gabriel/Gabe and can't figure out why anyone would think its a girl's name. I've *almost* gotten over my irritation about not being able to use it b/c of family associations.

Hyacinth Soh is fun to say but the lisp bothers me. I like Ivy better but then, my daughter has an 'I' name. Which is apparently time-stamped even though she's named for my grandmother and I'd been planning on an Iris for about 10 years (although as a middle name). Anyhow, Ivy has a serious/smart demeanor with a wild streak to my mind. And isn't that a great combination?

speaking of Hyacinth Bucket--my DH is currently obsessed with the name Onslow (her BIL). I just can't go there.

Maps: in our last home I wallpapered the main hallway with maps. But then, I should have gone for a phd in Geography and not a more straight forward science. Geography is my mental (academic) home.

And flower names in general: I've been re-reading a book set in the Victorian Era (although written in the 90s) with a family of flowers: Iris, Rose, Pansy and Eglantine. I had to look up Eglantine, apparently its a variety of wild rose.