The Baby Name Wizard

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Nice new digs here. ;-)
I think it is more about trends and themes in the names (surnames as first names, girls with boys' names, etc.) rather than a specific king and queen. I'm always surprised to see such a low percentage for the Top 10 names, because I feel like more than 1% of the boys I've met are named Aidan, for example.
Can't wait to see the new list.

You know, I was thinking the same thing AJ. While I only know 2 Aidan/Aidens (and one is an 8 year old girl), I noticed during the NCAA basketball tournament this year that there were a crazy number of Tylers. As in, nearly every team had at least one. and according to my copy of BNW, it never reached #1. Maybe Tylers are just athletically inclined or the athletically inclined named their sons Tyler in the late 80s/early 90s?

Hey Another Amy,

I was noticing at my step daughters High School the sheer numbers of Tylers on the football and basketball teams. I am sure the other sports had them too,I just haven't seen the name rosters for them.

Karen D

More than 1% of the boys you meet might be named Aidan--but they're spelling it Aidan/Aiden/Ayden/Aidon/Aeden etc. etc. etc., which all get counted separately for the SS list's purposes. So maybe part of the decline of the top names' statistical popularity is about a broadening of spelling choices--we still like the popular names, but we don't spell them just one way anymore (thus, Madalyn, Katelyn, Emmaleigh...).

Tyler might be one of those names people like to give as a middle name, but use as a first name--ie, "He's Joseph Tyler Davidson, but we're going to call him Tyler." So some of those Tylers wouldn't have shown up in the SS rankings (which only count first names, right?). Maybe call it the Mary Tyler Moore effect? ;)

Tyler's also not a name you'll find so much in Latino families--it doesn't have any cognate in Spanish--which would take a bite out of its use, but not so much of a bite out of its appearance on those team rosters (Latino kids are underrepresented on NCAA basketball teams, I suspect).

I was surprised by the 1% number too, but I figure that has a lot to do with micro trends that give me a biased perception of the averages. For instance, I feel like more than 50% of kids I meet have the same few "neo-yuppie names" (Sam, Lily, Jack, Claire, Julia, William, etc.), but that probably says more about me and the people I know than the national trends. I don't think I've met an Aidan (or any variation thereof) since I was 6, and that Aidan was a girl who was born sometime around 1974. In fact, until I started researching to name an actual baby, I thought it was the coolest name, fairly rare, and was very likely to give it to a boy if I ever had one. Oops. Shows what I know (knew).

I agree with AJ that trends and themes are more important in determining usage than in mere rankings--call the former "functional rankings," if you will.

For example, Emma has a certain "real" ranking according to statistics. But its functional ranking would take into consideration not only alternate spellings but once-distinct names that have been vortexed into Emma's contemporary orbit: Emily, Emmaleigh, Emmeline, Emme, etc. The functional ranking of all of these orbit-names would thus be a lot closer to a theoretical Top 10.

And it's not just sound-alikes but meaning that could be considered in the same orbit. For example, fifteen years ago, I thought of Ruby and Diamond as closer to each other than not. But now, I class Diamond with a different orbit--with the Porsches and Christalles and Cartiers I have met.

I really think patterns and trends are, as AJ suggests, what to look for, not actual rankings, which are necessarily limited and short-sighted in their capacity for insight into a name's real popularity potential.

Nice site!

Easternbetty, the "functional ranking" sounds like a fun project- maybe people who watch/read this site could each take a name and comb through the SSA lists for its permutations and close relatives, and then share the results- problem there is the degree of subjectivity involved in deciding what's in the same "orbit." Well, maybe that thought worked better in my head than outloud...

I have a casual wager on with a couple of friends- two of us are better that Ava will take top place this year, the other two that Emily will continue her reign for another year. Can't wait for the weekend!

betting, not better!!

OK, here's an orbit example: according to my analysis of the 2006 data, there were about 81,000 boys named "something that rhymes with Aidan" (Aidan, Cayden, Brayden, Zayden, Jayden, Hayden, and spelling [per]mutations). This is more than 3 times the number of babies who were named Jacob, the #1 name.

Before I found out my son was going to be a boy, I made a spreadsheet to analyze girls names by copying and pasting data from the SSA website. I cut and pasted the lists, sorted alphabetically, then grouped like names (Caitlyn, Katelyn and all the others, for example) and calculated the totaled. I did this for popular names, classic names and names I was considering, to compare. Unfortunately it was saved on a computer that has since died, so I can't share it, but it is doable.

Looking forward to the newest list! Wonder how many changes there will be...

JDG, I did the same thing! I am just itching to get the new data into my spreadsheet! Wow am I a geek! Glad to be among friends ;).

I haven't done a lot with themes/orbits, other than some rhyming name families ['rhymes with Aidan' (boys), 'rhymes with Kayla' (girls), 'rhymes with Twyla' (girls)], plus Presidential last names (both), and flower/plant names (girls).

My own ds is named Jacob (born 2003), but he is called by an unusual nn (Coby) so in actual practice we rarely come across another Coby. If we regularly called him Jacob, I might be more concerned about the popularity of it.

I think regional differences are soemthing to think about as well. SSA gives us the national trends, but you may not know a single Emma/Jacob/Aidan or whatever where you live, but someone else might know a ton.
Where I live I feel like I know a zillion young Kate/Katie/Katherines and Isabel/Isabella/Isabelles. The young boys that I know seem to be more varied in their names.

I just saw an interesting name. Ashlee Lashee` The longer I l.ook at it the more interesting it gets...

Also a sib set that caught my attention: Byron, Chance, Skylar and Mason.

Jill C., I like your example of an orbit (--aydens). It's a good one.

Quints just born this weekend in Indiana:

Brayden Jamson (m)
Ariel Marie (f)
Addison Catalina (f)
Micah Joe (m)
Gabriella Isabel (f)

The couple explain the name choices at their blog:

http://paulaandjamson.blogspot.com/

I wonder how "small," one could go with demographic/regional differences.
We seem to be in a crazy Maya pocket. I know this name is on the upswing, but it's odd to me that every preschool group we encounter seems to have multiple Mayas. I've wondered for a while whether there is some kind of statistical principle that explains these naming "bubbles".
I don't know if that makes sense at all, but if anyone knows what I'm getting at, feel free to chime in!
Jacob is similar to Emily for me, in that I know very few young ones. When I was teaching I had lots of teenage students named both Emily and Jacob/Jake, but you couldn't prove by me that either of these is still popular. It's certainly a handsome choice, in any case!

I'm pregnant now, and I'm struggling a lot with the issue of popularity of names. How much does it matter? And how much can be measured in by the SS list in terms of its local effect? It's hard for me to decide how much I care, especially for boys, since many of my favorites are very popular.

Sorry for the digression, but I have a question for Coby's mom. I've always loved the name Coby as a nickname for Jacob. But I hesitate because of Kobe Bryant. Granted, not the same name, but do you run into people whose perception of your son's name is based on Bryant?

I think many on this board would tell you that only

you
can decide how much name popularity matters to you. If it would annoy you or you think it would annoy your children to have 4 or 5 children with the same name in the same class, you might want to avoid some of the more popular names. That being said, I think Laura's point with this post is that even the highest ranking names on the most recent social security rankings don't necessarily mean that the name occurs very often in real life due to all the name choices out there and the sheer desire to name one's child something "different," whatever that means.

If it's hard to decide how much you care, then you probably don't care very much. :) Go for the name you love and that you will be happy with long-term.

Completely agree with J&H's mum about Maya, there's a boom going on.

Regarding Maya, there is a popular PBS show with that name.

by the way! I like the site!

I also can't wait for the list to come out! So fun!
I really hope Ava is not at the top. sheesh

Even though Maya/Maia seems a bit old[er] hat to me (I associate it with people in their late teens-twenties), I figured it was experiencing either a renewal or mainstream acceptance when I saw it used in not one, but two television advertisements (two of the only ones I've seen where the actor is given a name, by the way). (I believe it was also the name of a character in the sitcom "Just Shoot Me").

In one ad, the actor was a young girl--not of great interest. But in the other, the actor was a woman in her mid-thirties; this made me sit up and take notice because it seemed to suggest that even stodgy marketing types had deemed this name to be one "normal" enough for a thirtysomething Everywoman (European-American, BTW).

I think someone here mentioned a few months ago that there was a similar phenomenon with one of the medical dramas (Grey's Anatomy?) in which female characters in their 30s and 40s were called by names that are not aligned with their age group, but rather with teens and young ones.

I had a few days at home last week and saw a character on _Days of Our Lives_ (daytime soap) in her early thirties named Ava. To my knowledge, that name would probably have seemed grandmotherly in generation during the early seventies when this actress was born, so I am tempted to think the same factor is at work here.

I definitely find that I rarely run into the top-10 names of either sex IRL. In looking at the top-10 for 2006 and thinking of kids my daughter's age (6 yrs), we know two Ethans, one Christopher, one Matthew, one Daniel, one Emily, one Abigail, one Ava, and one Samantha.

While I know there are many more kids with these names, it seems less obvious than when I was a kid in the 70s when there were many Amys, many Jeffs, many Mikes, etc.

I also agree that trends are typically more interesting than the top-10 (or however many top names you'd want to include). The top names, esp for boys, seem somewhat more static. Even the most dynamic trend may not affect the top-10 (variant spelling being one reason).

Statisticians, demographers, and astronomers will tell you, random space is "lumpy"--in any random distribution over an area there will be places with more and less, for no reason other than chance. It's a fallacy to imagine random means "evenly distributed." So there will always be pockets, not just because local trends are at play, but because random means random--lumps and all.

I agree with the regional "lumpy" effect. There are several names that have been mentioned on the board as becoming over used and I didn't even know one kid with that name yet. I do like that the social security data will show you the top 100 by state. My friend looked at this when she was considering naming her son Ethan. While it was popular overall in the country, it was the number one name in our state. In the end, however, she decided to use the name anyway. My husband grew up always needing to be James D. or a similar variation. His best friend was also named James and they called each other James squared. He didn't care about that and so doesn't think it should matter with our boys. (Of course once you decide it is okay to have two Jameses in the family, it doesn't really matter how many are in the class does there?) I think there was another post that commented about the fact that there does seem to be a difference with popular classic names and popular names that feel like a trend because of large spikes or drops. But I agree that it is a very personal thing and it depends on why you like a name to begin with.

Sushila O'Malley -- Thanks for the reminder about the randomness of random distributions. It always kills me when my iPod -- on shuffle -- keeps shuffling to the same artist. My husband reminds me that even that repetition is part of randomness. I guess it just doesn't seem logical that randomness would be so apparently unrandom at times. Does that make sense?

It does to me Amy- my ipod never seems to pick songs at random. For example, one day, on 'shuffle' it picked nothing but African-American women solo artists, out of an extremely eclectic mix!
I'm not around small children a lot right now, but every single girl I meet seems to be called Lily right now...

I agree with the different spelling being a strong reason the #1 name only accounts for 1% and the other reason being our acceptance and exposure to other cultures being the other. More people are becoming risky with names.

I am in a group called Durham Mommies, and there are 4 Austin's.. but every one of them spells it differently.

I agree that names tend to occur in clumps, or pockets, which is why I think it's also important for parents who are seeking names that will keep their child from being 1 of 5 also look at things like what names are popular in their state or region or amongst others in their peer group/friend group/etc.

I've shared on this board many times that I hated my name (Ashley) growing up, because of it's popularity. I've also said that I've grown to accept it, largely because I encounter fewer Ashley's on a day-to-day basis.

At the time I was born, Ashley was in the 40s on the SSA list. Yet, when a friend from elementary school joined Facebook recently, the first five people to write on her wall were all seperate individuals we went to high school with (including myself), all named Ashley. Clearly, I was born into a pocket of Ashleys, even before the name was popular.

I really like the look of the new website! But I'm surprised to see no link to Nymbler. Also, if the search option could include searching all comments too, that would be very helpful. When my son and wife were looking at names for their expected baby, I was interested in others' impression of one of their contenders, and went through all of Laura's posts and responses, one by one, to gather that data. It took quite a while!

.

Rachel - funny you should ask that. My husband's name is Brian so if I say the names together it definitely brings Kobe Bryant to mind. When Coby was born was around the time that Kobe Bryant was in the news for alleged unsavory behavior, so he seemed to be more on people's minds. I did get asked, "like Kobe Bryant?" somewhat frequently. However, I hardly ever hear that comment anymore - Coby is 4 1/2 now.

The things that I do notice with this name:

1) people tend to spell it with a K (maybe because of Kobe Bryant)
2) people call him Cody or Colby relatively frequently
3) people don't get that it is a nn for Jacob. I rarely even attempt to explain it.

All that being said, I still am really happy with it. We have yet to come across another Coby in our social circle/preschool circle. I also really like the name Jacoby, nn Coby. That seems like it might be more intuitive for people.

Melissa,
In my group called "Durham Babies" (now all three years old) there are two little Liams (out of nine children) and a William. Considering Liam's popularity rank was around 100 the year these kids were born, it does seem unusual. But four Austins! Wow.

C&C's mom, there is at least one other little boy named Coby in the Triangle, and his brother is named Caleb. When you first started posting here I thought you were their mother. I don't know if that Coby is named Jacob, though.

Elizabeth T. - Are the Liams in your group just Liam or are they Williams?

Jill C, great point, as many of the pps made as well. I like the orbit idea, and we can't discount rhymes or even just alt spellings.
A lot of these concerns are addressed in the Canadian magazine "Today's Parent." No federal agency in Canada collects this information, so the magazine takes the data from each province and aggregates it into a national list of their own. In doing so, they choose to put alt spellings together (Kaylee and Caden each have *12* different spellings!) and even put together different pronunciations of the same root name, like Matthew and Mathieu. There's fewer Latino-popular names like Javier or Angel (for a boy) or Belen (for a girl), and more distinctively French and Irish ones than the US list, but still a ton of overlap. Maybe looking at it will jive more with our experiences.
http://www.todaysparent.com/pregnancybirth/becomingparent/article.jsp?co...

Not to be daft, but how do those people spell Austin 4 different ways? I could see Austen, and I guess they could do Austyn or Austan (although these both make me cringe a bit), but what else? Osten? And please tell me it's not Awstin...

I did the grouping into orbits thing in a spreadsheet myself. I grouped by rhyme, ending syllable, ending letter, nickname, and variant spellings. I'm not at home right now to access the data, but I know that anyone considering nicknaming their daughter Ellie should reconsider if popularity is a problem. Something like 15% of the top 150 names could (of course, aren't always) be nicknamed Ellie.

Why I chose these criteria (if you care):
Rhyme was mainly for Aidan and the like; ending syllable was created for the -dens but yielded a plethora of others (-ly turned out to be huge); ending letter was originally to get a sense of what percentage of the girls' names ended in A and boys' in N; nickname was out of curiosity with all those -ella names running about; and variant spellings, well, we've discussed this. There were double digits of ways to spell Aidan and Jaden each (in the top 1000), if I remember.

I'll go home tonight and share the most interesting findings, if you guys want.

AJ, Thanks for the link. Interesting compiling of names. I wonder how they came across all the various spellings - must have combed through every 2007 birth name in every province. I noticed one questionable grouping right off: Zack with various spellings of Zachary. Zachary spelled any way could be called "Zack" but it seems unlikely that a boy named Zack would ever be called the full form of the name. So I wouldn't include that form of the name with the full name.

I'm glad SSA doesn't combine names, but instead rates each name by exact spelling. I think that provides more objective data and leaves it to others to combine spellings as they choose. The Canadian top 100 is interesting but impossible to compare with the USA top 100 due to the combined spellings for many of the names.

C & C's mom,
The two Liams are just Liams; we also have a William and an Ian. I guess those are popular vowels on little boys these days!

Because I'm so visual, I'm imagining a map with topographic circles or something showing pockets o' babies. I kind of think it's more demographic that geographic, though. I can name seven babies that I know of born in the last year--four were Abigail and two were Michael. These people live in different parts of the country, but I'd say they're pretty close in income brackets.

Well, curious to see whether I live in a pocket where the names I like are popular, I just searched my local newspaper's online birth records. I'm happy to say that my three top girl names are barely used in my area. But Ava and Addison...whoa buddy. All over the place.

Sushila-Thanks for the explanation about randomness. That was just what I was wondering.

Has Laura ever done a post about regions that are ahead of the curve in terms of naming popularity? Another recurring fascination of mine is with children who seem to have been named just two or three years ahead of a big trend. For example, there is an Addison in Jack's swim class who must be about five.

AJ- I enjoyed the link too. I actually liked the fact that they grouped by name, even when there were many varieties of spelling. The only one I quibbled with was combining Hailey, etc. with Halle, as I thought they were pronounced differently. In fact, I don't think of them as being related at all.

I agree, Valerie, and I want to reiterate that in the past, before either was widely used, I would have thought of Callie and Halle as utterly different.

But now, it seems that many orbits are burgeoning precisely because of sound associations. So, I would now posit that Callie and Halle are, to many non-NEs (Name Enthusiasts, to new readers) indeed part of the same orbit.

Thanks, C&C's mom. When you're considering a name that no one you know has (I've met some older Cobys in Israel), it's hard to gauge how it will be received, and I'm one of those people who don't want to share the names I'm considering with close friends.

Another thing I'm curious about: how do people here feel about giving a name that someone you know well, or fairly well, just chose for their newborn, especially if it's not an extremely popular name. Friends of ours just named their new baby Jonah, which I've always liked, but now I'm reluctant to use it (I'm giving birth in September). If I unequivocally knew I was already using it, I probably wouldn't care, but while I'm still in the muddling phase, I feel like it's now out of the running.

Regarding the list of the top 100 baby names in Canada, I too questioned Hallie being grouped with Hailey (in its many spellings). Similarly, I wouldn't pronounce Kallie the same as Kaylee. Also, would Mya(h) be an alternative spelling for Mia, as it was grouped here, or for Maya? Too, I've heard Kyra pronounced like Kyle and not as "Keira". Those were the combined girls' names that I questioned. Among the boys' names, I think of Brendan as a separate name from Brandon. Other than that the names seemed to be grouped accurately according to their phonetic pronunciations.

I'd be interested in seeing the top 100 names in the USA when spellings are combined (but same pronunciation), particularly after the 2007 SSA results are out. It sounds like some members of this blog may be tabulating those.

Rachel,

My son and his wife considered Jonah, but decided against it due to it sounding like the female names Joan/Joanie and also due to the 'a' ending. On babynamereviews.com (I think it was), I came across posts by 2 men named Jonah who didn't like their name at all because of teasing when they were young and lifelong unfamiliarity of others with the name (probably that would be less so now that the name has come into general usage). As I recall, one adult Jonah tried to dissuade parents from choosing that name and the other Jonah mentioned he'd thought about legally changing his name.

I can see both the appeal -- and the concerns -- of Jonah.

Here's the link for comments about the name Jonah by two men with that name:
http://pregnancyandbaby.com/baby_names/Boys/J/Jonah4.html

On the other hand, many parents and others wrote very positively about Jonah.

It would definitely put me off if people I knew had chosen the name I liked a few months before my baby was born. Just don't want to look like a copy-cat I suppose..

Jonah's quite mainstream now, isn't it?

Along the same lines, I read that in England the most popular boys name is actually Mohommad but because so many different spellings are used it doesn't show up as the most popular name (or even in the top 10 boys names). 

Many years ago my husband and I decide on the name Edward Anthony (after our fathers) for our first son. When Queen Elizabeth named her third son "our name" Edward Antony (plus 2 other middle names) first, I was pleasantly surprised. It seemed that the name we created was an excellent choice. Our Edward Anthony, called Teddy, later Ted, was born a few years after Prince Edward.

If I really liked a name, I'd probably go ahead with it even if a friend used it first. However, if the child with 'my' name was a family member, I'd ask the parents first if they minded if I used the name too.

Twice family members asked me if it was okay if they used the name of one of my children. A cousin wanted to name her daughter Julie Patricia: she liked Julie with her older daughter's name Susan and Patricia was the cousin's first name, although she went by her middle name. My daughter Julianne Patricia -- called Julie -- was a few years old. I said it was fine with me for my cousin to name her baby a similar name and she did. Some years later my sister Rebecca wanted to name her daughter Jennifer Rebecca (does anyone remember the sweet "Jenny Rebecca" song from some TV commercial that was shown over and over?), but I already had a daughter named Jennifer. Since her "Jennifer" and my "Jenny" would be 17 years apart in age, I saw no reason for my sister not to use the name she loved.

If I really wanted a name that a relative had already used, I'd ask the parents of that child if they objected to my using the name too. It could be that they take it as a complement that you too like the name so much. But if they objected, then I wouldn't use the name.

As for using a name a friend has recently used, I'd say it's all right if you had the name in mind all along and didn't choose it just because they did. With a friend, I'd tell them in advance that we planned to name our baby that name too, but I might not give them 'veto power' over our using it.

"Jonas" might be an option if you don't feel comfortable using exactly the same name as "Jonah," out of consideration for your friends. Sounds and spells almost the same, and the -as ending reads male (like Thomas, Elias, Silas, Barnabas, etc.). Fewer references to the Biblical whale, too, I'd think!

Love this site! Can't wait for the SSA list to come out.
Thoughts about orbits and grouping-Doesn't it make the popularity issue more of a subjective thing rather than an objective look across the board. I say this because you could qualify and say that groupings would only be rhyming names, or similar names or whatever but some might consider a name to be really close to another and some might not. For example: I agree with the Aiden, Cayden, Jayden,etc. grouping and Kailey, Bailey, Hailey, etc. but I also tend to group Jordan, Jacob, and Jonah as biblical names although some might put Jordan with the -an(en) names. And Montana and Dakota go together but don't they also swing towards the popularity of Madison and Jackson in their rankings? Does anyone understand what I'm saying here cause I'm not sure if I've said it well?

Patricia= one of my closest friends called her daughter Jenny Rebecca after that song too!

Yes, I don't think I love Jonah enough to use it anyway, but with so many of my friends having babies this year before me, this issue can come up a lot this year before the baby will be born. It's also always helpful to hear how people feel about a name when it's theirs, thanks for that link.

I think a part of me is putting off 100% deciding until we're much closer to the birth because it's so much fun considering and looking at lots of different names. Once we choose, that's all over!

I think "orbits" and homophone name-grouping are (or should be) two different things. Counting homophones as the same name makes sense because, practically, they are. Catherine and Kathryn and Katherine in all liklihood say their names the same way (save minor regional differences).

The problem, as so many previous posters have pointed out in the Canadian list, is where to draw the line. I suspect that is one of the reasons the SSA does not include such groupings. I do not consider Halley and Hailey to be the same name -- I pronounce them differently. However, at a glance I can see how one might see them as the same/virtually the same.

When using orbits to describe name trends, though, I might group Halley and Hailey together. To me, orbits can be drawn as tightly (one name = Ashley, Ashlee, Ashleigh) or as loosely (Ashley, Ashlee, Ashleigh, Asher, Ashton, Ashlyn, Etc.) as one might like. And they can be drawn according to the cirteria a person is looking for (Ash names; nature names; Irish names starting with B; etc.).

I thin that there are names that other people can't "claim," and biblical names are some of them. I don't remember if you said where you were living, but where I live, biblical names are always an option. I don't think one person can have "dibs" on them or anything.

The Canadian rankings are very interesting. I never would have guessed that Brooklyn would rank so highly ... well, anywhere, frankly. I had no idea it was quite that popular.

Since C & C's Mom showed us that name list voting site, I've spent a lot of time on it, and I feel like I'm getting a sense for what non NE's are thinking of as innovative names. Brooklyn is a strong contender on the site, so I should have seen the Canadian thing. There are a lot of people asking about Camden as well - murder capital of the US, AND a nice name! Isabella is on almost every single list, usually with the middle name Grace. As pretty as it is, I vote no on all Isabellas on the site because I feel like maybe these people don't know how very popular the choice is. Evan and Noah seem to be the voting public's favorite names, where as they are less likely to embrace a rarer name like Imogen or Atticus, which do get posted sometimes. Madison seems to be done with, finally, if this site is any indication. Addison is a whole other story.

Katie - very funny about those lists. I like to use those lists as a procrastination tool when I am supposed to be working; they are very addictive. The funny thing is that I always vote against Isabel/Isabella/Isobel/Isabelle too. It's a nice name - I just think it is becoming too popular so I'm making a stand against further use.

another quick comment about those lists - I have seen Miley appearing on those lists, so I think that name definitely deserved the attention that it received on this blog.

Katie, I love your classifications! I'm going to do some more of that to my spreadsheet! In particular the nickname category should prove interesting (just how many Ella/Bella/Ellie names can one kindergarten class hold?).

Zoerhenne, I know what you mean. While some names might technically belong to a certain classification, it might not mean a whole lot for analysis purposes. For example, I labeled flower/plant girls' names, and included names like Jasmine and Heather -- technically they belong, but to me that's not really the KEY classification for those names (unlike, say, Rose, Violet, Daisy, Lily, and Dahlia).

It's worth noting about randomness that neither iPod shuffle or baby names distribution are actually random. Computers are incapable of generating truly random numbers and my suspicion is that most music players don't even make an attempt at pseudo-random number generation. People name their babies according to many factors. I think the "pockets" of name popularity may be more likely attributed to regional shared cultural tastes.

hyz: Auston is also in the top 1000. Or was in 2006 at least. As is Johnpaul (yes, one word).

I took Rowan's stuff to daycare the other day so I wouldn't have to cart it along with him on his first day. There's a little Avalon in his infant room. I wonder if she goes by Ava.

hyz: D'oh ... I should have previewed while I looked at ssa.gov. Austen, Austin, Auston, and Austyn are all in the top 1000.

thats funny so many are liking Noah. My sister would have been a Noah if she'd been a boy (way back in 1974) and everyone in the family *hated* the name. She mentioned it to her 4th grade teacher and her teacher said she was glad my sister had been a girl. I've noticed that over the past decade the family has warmed up to the name Noah, I guess its a national level thing.

Both points about randomness are well taken - some of the repetition of names in a group/area are random, some are cultural (for lack of a better term).

When I lived in Mass. (2 years ago) I had never met an Aidan (boy) or Avery (girl). Now I live in PA, and I meet one at every playground, at nursery school etc.

Far more Isabellas in Mass, but many "Ellie" type names here.

Miles is a heavy hitter here in PA. (Too bad, I really like that name!)

In neither place have I met a flower name or a virtue name. The closest was a little boy named Indigo.

I was just looking at babycenter's 2007 top 100 names, based on their own member database. They DO combine spellings, and tend to follow the SSA names fairly closely (after combining variant spellings). They are particularly accurate for the top 25 names, but there gets to be some pretty wide variation for some names after that. (Has this been discussed here already? I sometimes don't read all of the comments.)

Anyway, I see Addison made another huge jump, all the way to #6. Also, I was surprised by the overlap between the boys and girls lists -- Riley, Jayden, Cameron/Camryn and Jordan appear on both. I thought boys' parents pretty quickly moved away from names once they became "girl" names?

J&H's mom -- I had to comment on the older Addison in your son's swim class. I also know of an Addison who would be 6 yrs old now (as well as one who just had her first birthday).

Am I the last to know that Miley Cyrus has a Sister named Noah?
I just found out thanks to the new Vanity Fair.It sounds decidedly masculine to me, but who knows what future namers will think if Noah becomes the next pop sensation!

Jill C-I am surprised at Riley because I've only heard that on girls of late, but Jayden and Jordan seem to be truly gender neutral out here. I'm also constantly surprised at the names I hear the former paired with-I know a boy Jayden who has a brother named Luke, and I know a girl Jalen who has a brother named Duncan. I haven't run into any Camerons in real life, so I'll have to defer to others on that one.

Thank you all for your thoughts on randomness (or lack thereof). It's actually more interesting to think that these "lumps," aren't random....like, what about our ordinary, middle-of-the-road suburb makes us prone to Mayas-the mind reels!

I live over here in Isabella/Ellie/Ava/Miles/Liam land. I wonder if those will be the popular kids, the way the Heathers and Kellys and Jennifers were when I was growing up. Back then it seemed like being a Stacy was a fast track to the in-crowd, and being an Elizabeth got you precisely nowhere. Will little Nadine and Roberta sit by the sidelines looking wistfully at the fabulous Olivias? Stay tuned.

I was so excited to see my daughter's preschool roster: it felt like the culmination of my two-ish years on this board. So, drumroll, here goes, with my not-so-subtle opinions in parentheses. Allister (cute if a bit precious), Brooke (yawn), Caroline (exquisite of course, because she's mine), Zachariah (meh), Zarek (s/he's Turkish I think, so what do I know?), Ashlyn (yuck), Michael (kind of refreshing), Shannon (also a relief to see something slightly 70s), Harrison (overdone out here), Eleanor (overdone but still an excellent name). No big surprises except for Zarek and Michael, but no Isabellas etc. as above, either!

Am I alone in finding this new site really frustrating? It's the jerky way the comments scroll up and down..so sorry to moan, because I love the look of it.

I have a cousin whose son is Ostyn. :-/

Laura-

Did I see a veiled reference to your work in the May 2008 Harvard Business Review?

"Noa" (usually without the H) is an established female name starting in the Old Testament, so if Miley has a sister Noa, that would be the likely story there. Alternatively, it might sometimes be found as a nickname (like Miley was), short from something like Chenoa? There's an Argentine pop singer named Chenoa.

Noa is the name I'm familiar with for girls, but Miley's sister is, indeed, Noah with the H. I've never seen that for a girl, but I don't find it entirely surprising, esp if people aren't familiar with Noa.

Keren, what browser are you using? I use Firefox, and I have no problem. Firefox has only let me down once- and that was trying to book a driver's test on a government site- otherwise, it's great and crashes with only a fraction of the frquency that IE does. It's free to download. And they don't pay me!

I've read that Noa is a popular girls' name in Israel.

Along with Jonah, Noah was considered for my newest grandson, as his parents preferred a biblical name like their first son has (by chance in his case, as his name was chosen for family connections). They liked Noah, but had the same concern about Noah's usually feminine "a" ending that they had with Jonah. Also, they wondered if there may be an increase in the use of Noah for girls, spelled with or without the 'h'.

(I noticed the similarity between Noah and Norah, but kept that observation to myself so as not to complicate their name search further.)

As with Jonah, I see Noah as an appealing name in some respects and yet problematic if parents are wanting a strongly male name.

Sometime yesterday Laura posted an appeal for parents of babies named Ethan, Jacob, Joshua -- or Ava, Emily, Emma, Isabella -- to get in touch with her asap because a reporter had contacted her about interviewing parents who had chosen one of those names. This morning that announcement had disappeared on this blog. I'm *guessing* Laura had received enough responses.

I've been wondering if those are the top 3-4 baby boy and girl names for 2007. It could be -- they were all in the top 5 names for 2006. Did this reporter get some 'inside' SSA info, perhaps?

I expect SSA will release their list of the 1000 most popular baby names in 2007 sometime tomorrow. I'm sure we'll all be on the lookout for it!

Kimberly, thanks for the Aust*n info--I guess I should've checked that out on the SSA list myself! I've said it before and I'm sure I'll say it again--I really don't get what people think they're accomplishing with spellings like Auston. I mean, I guess I get what they *think* they're accomplishing, but not *why* they think they've accomplished anything good. But difference makes the world go 'round, I suppose.

Jiggs, what *will* they think of next? lol. :)

For the record, I think Jonah and Noah are both absolutely lovely on boys, but then again, I don't tend to care much for strongly masculine names.

Patricia--I wondered the same thing!

hyz

I didn't mean 'macho' or anything of that sort when I wrote "strongly male names". What I was referring to are traditional (usually) male names that are unlikely to be used (at least in any great numbers) by parents of baby girls -- such as William, Joseph, David, Andrew, etc.

Regarding various spellings of Austin and other currently popular boys' names, I too wonder why some parents prefer non-standard spellings. And I've also been wondering about using a 'y' in place of an 'i' or other vowel before a final 'n' -- as in Austyn, Aidyn, Evyn and others (all from the Canadian top 100 list). The final 'yn' combination reminds me of the very popular 'lyn' ending for a number of girls' names -- and thus looks rather 'girlish' to me. Does anyone else see it that way?

It has occurred to me that when a name suddenly has several (and 'any old') spellings, it causes spelling confusion for *all* children with that name, even those who were given the standard spelling. Example: my oldest grandson, almost 7, is named Aidan. Every name book I've seen gives "A-i-d-a-n" as the standard spelling of the name. But because so many other spellings have 'sprung up', I'm sure my grandson too will be asked, "How do you spell your name?" when really, Aidan should be a very straight forward name.

Wide-spread non-standard spellings (aka "creative"??? spellings) cause spelling problems even for those with standard spellings.

Patricia

I couldn't agree more on non-standard spellings. I should have the easiest name in the world. "Megan" "common last name". But people spell Megan so many different ways, I can't even use the "no H" line anymore. I actually have to spell it out.

My son goes to school with a Maegan, I have known a Meaghaan, Meagan(s) and Maygans. And that's only the start of the list.

The Aidan spellings are just as bad, but as a teacher, the most different spellings name for me is Caitlyn.

I met a Bartosz today. (Male) Anybody know anything about that name? (He goes by Bart; it is pronouced Bar-toes.)

Megan W.

Just wait, I'm betting the Aidan/Aiden/Ayden/Adan, Aidyns etc. will be coming to your classroom in a few years! Caitlin et. al. became popular some years ahead of Aidan et. al.

I googled Baby Name Bartosz:
BARTOSZ: Nickname for Polish Bartlomiej;
Bartosz Polish Bumpy, Rough

Patricia -- I completely agree that -yn endings look more like girls' names to me. And even though Amy doesn't have that many variant spellings, nine times out of ten I spell it for people. If I don't, people usually ask, even if they're only saying A-M-Y? to confirm.

In England, no one had trouble spelling my name, unless they had problems with spelling in general. Over here in the US I've had Valari, Valori, Vallery, you name it. Yes, I definitely think krea8ive spellings have affected the perception of 'normal' spellings.

P.S. Japanese people have the greatest difficulty because of the r and l. Most recently, one called me Barreli.

Anyone who wants to see how the SSA list comes out after names have been combined should check out this link:

http://www.namenerds.com/uucn/top06xx.html

They group all the Caitlins, Katelynns, Katelin, etc. So you get a better idea of popularity.

The only quibble I have is should all the nicknames be combined too? Don't most have Abigails go by Abby etc? I guess it's a judgment call.

Check it out though fascinating site that also looks at which names changed the most % wise.

Hurray! No idea why but the scrolling thing is fixed.
valerie, I am always going to call you Barreli from now on.

Patricia-I agree with the "yn" names looking girly also.

On the subject of alternate spellings, does anyone know which name has the greatest number of alternate spellings? My guess would be Kaitlin in all its forms. I count Kaitlin, Caitlin, Kaitlyn, Caitlyn, Katelyn, Catelyn, Katlynn, Catlynn, Katelynn, Catelynn, Katelynne, Catelynne, Kaitlynne, Caitlynne, Caitlinn, Kaitlinn, Katelinn, Catelinn, Katlyn, Catlyn so thats 20.

On random Y substitutions and their effect on the rest of us-

You would think that "Julie" is pretty straightfoward, but I get asked all the time, "J-U-L-Y?" Usually I'm polite enough not to say, "No, that's the month, not the name!"

Noah is a legitimate girls name. Noah is Tirzah's sister in the Old Testiment. (Along with sisters Hoglah, Mahlah and Milcah. How's that for a sib set?)

I totally agree with the problem of kreativ spellings making the normal spellings ambiguous. I also wonder if it is damaging some people's ability to recognize standard English spelling, both phonetic and non-phonetic. For example, I was in a chain store (Motherhood) recently where a clerk was trying to help me find another branch of the store in another state where a friend lives. As she read down the list of towns, she butchered almost every one of them. Sure, these were towns that she wasn't familiar with, but they were words that followed pretty standard rules. I wish I could remember some examples, but I think the spectacle put me in shock.

A related thing that drives me nuts is when parents try to spell the name kreativleigh to get a pronunciation they want, but fail miserably. Recently, I heard of a friend of a friend who just named their daughter Sena Loren, explicitly because they wanted a very specific pronunciation. They were very much hoping their spelling would lead people to say "SEN-na lore-EN" (i.e. Senna Lorenne, or something to that effect), and they are now greatly irritated and puzzled as to why everyone keeps saying "SAY-na or SEE-na LORE-en". And that's leaving aside the fact that they named their child after a plant traditionally associated with its laxative properties....

Really, I think, rules are not there to hinder us, but to help us all communicate with each other in at least minimally functional ways.

Patricia,
I did misunderstand your meaning a bit, because I consider Noah and Jonah to meet those criteria (traditionally male names unlikely to be used on girls, young Miss Cyrus notwithstanding). Of course, I've heard of James, Michael, etc. being used on girls too, so you never can be sure, I guess. I just meant I tend to prefer the softer-sounding traditionally male names to ones with lots of jarring consonants or specifically masculine connotations (for example, out of your list, I prefer William to David).

A little off-topic, but...with all the publicity Miley Cyrus is getting, does "Cyrus" still seem a viable boy's name? Cyrus has been one of my favorites for a while, but now I'm worried that people might automatically associate it with Miley. And yes, I realize that pop culture personalities tend to fade after a few years, but this girl's young and seems like she might have a lifelong career ahead of her...Any opinions? How does Cyrus sound to your ears now?

hyz,
I was just wondering the same thing before I read your post. Maybe the lack of phonics instruction in schools is showing up in kre8tive speallings. After all, if you're taught to read by just recognizing words, as was the trend in the eighties and nineties, then it doesn't really matter how you spell ANYTHING, and as a correlative, all pronunciations of new words will forever be a mystery to you.

Wow, I just dissed kre8tive spellings, and in so doing, mispelled "spellings." Ouch.

There's a Cyrus in my daughter's preschool class. So definitely viable.

The only Cyrus I've known is an Iranian friend I've lost touch with and haven't thought about in years -- or about his name. I looked Cyrus up on behindthename.com and see that the name Cyrus has both Persian and biblical connections: "the Greek form of the Persian name Kûrush... This was the name of several kings of Persia, including Cyrus the Great, who conquered Babylon. He is famous in the Old Testament for freeing the captive Jews and allowing them to return to Israel."

I wonder if some American parents might hesitate to give their son a Persian/Iranian name... On the other hand, its biblical connection might draw other parents to the name. I noticed that it ranked 515 in 2006 (SSA).

Susan, I was thinking about that the other day, too. I really like Cyrus, and I think Miley's prominence might make it more familiar and therefore actually create a resurgence for it. It never occurred to me, though, that it might come back as a girl's name, what with Miley AND the boys' names for girl thing AND the surnames for girls thing. Interesting thought--but I hope it sticks with the boys!

Kristine, I was sort of coming at it from a different angle. I thought that phonics was all the rage in the 80s/90s (although I base this impression almost solely on all those "Hooked on Phonics" TV ads, not actual knowledge of schooling trends), and I was hypothesizing that simplistic over-reliance on phonics might be leading to things like Michaela turning into Makayla, and Emily into Emmalee, etc. English is quirky, and I like it that way--I don't like to see everything flattened out into phonetic transliterations. Of course, that wouldn't explain poor little Sena Loren. I'm assuming that those are just folks for whom hooked on fonix didn't wurk all that well to begin with.

I know a second-grader named Cyrus--he's a hoot.

Whatever kind of instruction a kid encounters in learning to read (and most get doses of phonics AND whole language, along the way), the bottom line is that there are good spellers and not-so-good spellers. I've known quite a few PhDs with bad spelling skills, so it's not about intelligence or education, it's just a skill some folks master easily, and others don't. And names aren't always phonetic in English, as hyz notes, so phonics wouldn't really do much to change mispronunciations.

Also remember that there are a surprising number of people who are mildly dyslexic (some don't even know it). They've learned to work around it, and that works most of the time, but having to read a new name, quickly, aloud, in front of a stranger, can really fluster their usual strategies.

Sushila--thanks for pointing out the dyslexia thing. I definitely don't assume that bad spellers are unintelligent or uneducated (I personally know to many examples to the contrary), but I did assume the young woman at the store simply had poor reading skills, and not any kind of LD, etc. I really shouldn't be so quick to conclude her reading problems were primarily just a product of the local school system. :\

So Cyrus is a form of Kûrush. Cool! My father has an Iranian friend named Koorosh. Must be the same name.
A bit like my husband's Moldovan colleague Kirill and my great-uncle Cyril. I love these kinds of connections.

I know of a young (age 6 or 7) "Syrus", but before this gets pigeonholed as just another "fancy" or creative spelling: The witty Publilius Syrus was a freed slave who become famous as a Latin writer of maxims and LIVED IN THE 1ST CENTURY B.C.! What a neat story to hand down to a namesake child...

My rather minor point being that, seemingly aberrant (sp?) spellings sometimes have a long, burnished history (often just as long as that of what became the "standard" spelling), and totally made sense to the populations who used them long ago. You can't always make the assumption (although it is tempting) that an anomalous name is some spur-of-the moment, ludicrous, rooted-in-nothing construction!

I say this with feeling as someone pegged with a VERY old variant name who also reveres history!

I think Cyrus remains a viable name for a boy. It might be different if Cyrus were the *fn* of a famous female pop star, but since it's her ln, I don't the impact is as great in terms of people naming their daughters Cyrus. I do think it could raise the visibility of the name in general, though.

hyz -- Funny, I had the correct pronunciation of Sena Loren from the get-go. Guess I'm the person the parents were aiming for, huh? :-)

1)Tirzah-that would be an "amazing-ahem" sib set. My apologies to you and others, but biblical names are nms.
2)Hyz-I also had the pronunciation mostly right on little Sena Loren. I got the Loren part but probably would have done Senna for the "correct" pronunciation. I agree with the pronunciation guide you spoke of as SEEna or Sayna/Seyna are other possibilities. I'm sure she will have lots of people saying "SEE-enna(Sienna)".
3)I wonder if the Miley Cyrus trend will carry over and result in more boys being named Miles/Myles in order to get away from the "girly" factor of the Y ending? Anyone for Miles Cyrus LN or Cyrus Miles LN?
4)Speaking of alternate spellings-here's some: Cyrus/Syrus/Cirus/Cirrus/Sirrus/Syris/Cyris/
Cyrice/Syrice/Cyrise/Syrise/Cyrrus/Syrrus
LOL I can hear the conversation now which goes something like this:
#1Mom-"What's her name?"
#2Mom-"Oh it's Cirrus spelled C_I_R_R_U_S".
#1Mom-"Oh how nice-she's named after a cloud".
#3Mom-"OMG, she's going to get teased that her name is Circus when she gets to school".
#1Mom goes home crying and #1Dad says "I told you so"!

I remember always being surprised at howmany alternate spellings of Melanie people came up with growing up (not including all the people that mixed my name up with Melody and even sometimes Melissa). For the most part, however, my name was common enough that once they were corrected they were able to remember it. I have a niece named Katelyn and a friend's daughter named Kaitlin. It has taken me forever to tinally remember how they spell their name as the intuitive spelling for me was always Caitlin (simply beacuse that is how the first Caitlin I ever met spelled her name). I have to admit that that name's many variations really do bug me.

Regarding Miley Cyrus and her sister Noah, has it been mentioned that Miley Ray Cyrus began life as Destiny Hope Cyrus? According to a Wikipedia article, her parents named her Destiny Hope because they "believed that she would accomplish great things. She gained her nickname "Miley" because she kept smiling ("Smiley") as a youngster." Her father is Billy Ray Cyrus, so that must be where she got her new middle name. It would seem that fans of Miley have lots of choices for baby names: Miley, Ray, Cyrus, Destiny, Hope, Hannah and maybe even Montana!

Her younger sister's full name is Noah Lindsey Cyrus. According to Biblical Names for Babies (http://www.ballina.net/babynames/a.htm), the name Noah is "traditionally male and female." After a detailed account of Noah of Ark fame, a mention is made of "others with this name: A daughter of Zelophehad. Her sisters were Hoglah, Milcah, Tirzah and Mahlah." Noah Cyrus is very cute, so I can see parents starting to use Noah more for girls.

Here's a sibset for you! Dorian and Juliette Paskowitz, newly featured in a documentary named "Surfwise", have:

David, Jonathan, Abraham, Israel, Moses, Adam, Salvador Daniel, Navah and Joshua.

Yes, it all unfolds predictably until Salvador, doesn't it? Juliette is Meixcan-American so that would explain that choice. Also they spent some time in Israel, which might explain Navah, the only girl. They sound like a fascinating family. They all lived in a 24-foot camper and surfed. More details if you want them at:
http://tinyurl.com/5s8bum

Hm, I'm fascinated that Sena Loren is having its intended effects with some here. I've known two men named Loren (one about 25 now, the other probably 40 something), pronounced the same as I might say Lauren (LORE-en), so I assumed that was standard, as well as appearing phonetic/rule-following to me (since most English two syllable names have the emphasis on the first syllable). For an intuitive spelling, I'd have probably mimicked the French feminine names with similar endings (Corinne, Suzanne, Yvonne, et al.) and gone with Lorenne. Most French names seem to emphasize the ultimate syllable, and I know they don't all have the -nne form (like Oceane), but I'd expect the -nne would trigger the reader to think that way. And I know there's Sophia Loren, but she's Italian, so I wouldn't expect her to pronounce her name in a phonetically English way, and out of context, I wouldn't expect Loren to be referencing her.

But for the parents' sake, I hope more people are like you guys than like me!

So far this year I have had friends, co-workers, and acquaintances have babies. These are the names:

girls - Addison, Riley, Alexandra, Sibley

boys - Carter, Ryan, Dylan

My least favorites are Sibley, Addison, and Riley. Has anyone heard of the name Sibley? Her middle name is Sarah which makes the name even worse in my opinion.

I guess my favorite is Carter although its popularity is a little distracting to me.

I know of at least five others that are currently pregnant. Hopefully those names will be a little more impressive to me (not that it makes any difference).

The family from Arkansas that has 17 children, the Duggars, are expecting again. All of the kids names begin with J -- there is a poll to name baby 18...
http://health.discovery.com/convergence/duggars/baby-name-poll.html

sdh--I just read an article about that!

These are their kids names:

Joshua, John David, Janna, Jill, Jessa, Jinger, Joseph, Josiah, Joy-Anna, Jedidiah, Jeremiah, Jason, James, Justin, Jackson, Johannah and Jennifer

In keeping with the sibset theme that we've branched into, Michelle Duggar is pregnant again! She's the Arkansas lady with 17 kids so this makes eighteen. By the way the youngest was born Aug 2, 2007. (I think she's crazy!)Anyway, all of her children's names start with J-she's got youngest to oldest=Jennifer Danielle, Johannah Faith, Jackson, Justin, James, Jason, Jeremiah +Jedidiah (twins), Joy-Anna, Josiah, Joseph, Jinger, Jessa, Jill, John-David +Jana(twins), Joshua. So what should they name the next one? They have a poll going (on left side of link below) but we could post some names here too that maybe then haven't thought of.
http://health.discovery.com/convergence/duggars/duggarfamily.html
I thought of Jordan, Jeffrey, and Jayden for boys, and Jasmine, Janet, Janice, Joelle, Jolie, Jalia, and Jalissa for girls.

Personally, I think that they have carried the j theme a little too far. Is Jinger really a good way to spell Ginger? Of course, as we mentioned earlier in the discussion there are many reasons for creative spellings.

The two names that always get me though are Joy-Anna and Johannah. To my ear they are almost the same name.

Ok - I just looked at the poll. If they go with Julianna, then they would have Joy-Anna, Johannah and Julianna.

And why would they have Jessica on the list if they already have one nmed Jessa?

When I first heard about this family a couple years ago, I have to admit I looked at "Jinger" for the longest time before I realized it was a mangling, er, ahem, a creative reinterpretation of Ginger. Even still, I look at it and immediately think it should rhyme with ringer, singer, linger, finger, hum-dinger, etc.--I really have to force myself to read it as Ginger.

The Johanna and Joy-Anna always got me, too. Of course not everyone has 18 kids these days, but I think the Duggars are the poster children for why it's preferable not to have a same letter theme for all your kids--have enough of them, and eventually you *will* end up with a Jinger. Lol.

I agree, hyz. The funny thing is that Jinger is actually one of the older ones and Jennifer is the baby! Maybe they are actually becoming more conventional as they go along.
I presume the online selection is their choice? Because I agree with C&C's Mom that you would think they would be unlikely to choose Jessica when they have a Jessa. And how about Jack when they already have a Jackson? But then a family with a Joy-Anna and a Johannah might very well choose a Joanna next time, why not?

The thing about phonics is that even though English is notoriously difficult to spell, there ARE rules. I think phonics was mostly neglected, at least in the eighties, which was why people got rich hawking phonics programs (Hooked on Phonics) to parents frusterated that their kids never learned to spell in school.

When I said that kids who were subjected to "whole-word" reading method might be attracted to kre8tive spellings, I didn't mean that's because they couldn't spell or weren't educated. What I meant was their perticular education might make them actually see language in a completely different way. If you see a word and your instinct is to pronunce it phonetically, maybe you don't name your daughter Sena and expect it to be pronunced "Senna"... but if you were taught to just memorize how each individual word was pronunced, then you maybe don't think about how those of us who were lucky enough to have phonics in school might naturally pronunce something.

That's particular not perticular. At least I spelled my own kids' names correctly, even if I can't spell online, apparently.

Kristine, I do get what you're saying, and that makes sense, too. So maybe now we're just seeing a combination of both--the fonix nutz (Makayla's parents), and the freewheeling whole word spellers (Sena and Jinger's parents). To tie it into Eo's earlier comment, maybe we're reverting to a time when spellinges (or is that spellynges?) aren't standardized, and anything goes. But I hope not. Rules make me happy. lol.

sme-- Interesting comment about "Sibley". I have seen forms of it on lists of medieval names-- "Sybbly", believe it or not, was one! Both are very old variants of "Sybil", or of course, Sibley could be used in its surname capacity.

I rather like that whole constellation of names. Reminds me of sibilant, or syllabub!

Similarly, "Sysley" is an Elizabethan variant of Cicely, or Cecily... But wait, isn't Sysley some sort of drug store (chemist's, to you Brits) chain in England? My poor Yank brain is making the connection to that, or maybe a type of cologne? Not terribly unpleasant associations...

The Duggars seem like a cute, strangely innocent and naive but harmless family-- I do wish they hadn't started the "J" thing.

You guys are giving great feedback on Cyrus--lots of food for thought here!

Zoerhenne--I love your Miles Cyrus and Cyrus Miles idea. How about Milo Cyrus LN :)
Has a nice ring to it.

Re: Sibley--I know it primarily as a surname, and the name of a hospital in Washington, D.C. (Sibley Memorial Hospital). I wonder if the Sibley you met is any relation.

Re: Sibley....there is the famous ornithologist and author of a wonderful book on birds, too, I believe. And the Sibyl mention jarred my memory. I am told that my aunt named a baby(who died) Drusilla Sibyl in about 1945. She had intended to nn her Dru..At the time, people did not accept the name with pleasure.I am guessing it wouldn't do much better now. I always thought it was interesting naming.

Out of curiousity how do the Duggars pronounce Janna and Johanna? I've known people by both of these names who pronounce the J and a Y. Thus you get Yah-nah nad Yo-han-ah (with a definite h sound in there).

Clara, I believe they pronounce both with a "J" sound. I also believe they are the types of people that say the child's "whole name". Thus, Jack and Jackson are 2 different names and 2 different people. This is not MY style, but I say that with some hesitation as my children don't have names that have nn's. But if I ever (not in a million years!!!) had eighteen children I would not name them anything remotely similar to each other.
I still think she should pick Jordan(boy/girl) or Joselyn/Jolie/Jasmine or something unrelated to any of her others for a girl. And just wondering, how many think she will have a girl and how many think a boys in the oven?

ITA with the concerns regarding Today's Parent's stab at creating a national Canadian list. They did many of the things people think they want the SSA to do, but it shows some problems that could crop up.

Sisley is a clothing store popular in Italy. Think Gap.

I named my son Glenn in 1996. We live in San Francisco and have only encountered one other boy his age in 6 years of sports and camps.