The Baby Name Wizard

I was too late to submit a ballot, but I want to note that this guy loves your blog. And I'm sort of surprised that there aren't more male readers: I don't have any kids of my own, but I've always considered my interest in baby-name trends to be a natural relative to my interest in sports statistics and political polls.

Big risers of 2008:
Leona, Anya, Syesha, Estelle, Nahla, Aliana, Audrina, Honor, Matilda, Emme, Harlow, Jonas, Shia, Hogan

Big fallers of 2008:
King, Dax, Dereon, Yurem, Jaslene, Yuridia, Kelis

Yay!....I picked Miley on my ballot! Although I didn't win, it's a small victory. Love the blog Laura...keep it coming!

I suspect that one very popular choice will be whatever Gwen Stefani and Gavin Rossdale (parents of Kingston) name their second child, to be born later this summer. Their choice will likely become very popular, if their first child's name is any indicator. :)

I'm sure Brad and Angelina's babies will make name waves, but I'm going with the early pick of Gianna. Congrats to the winners! I'm especially impressed by those falling names.

Ah, I'd be a terrible failure at the racetrack--I always go with the longshots.

Is it too soon to guess "Miley" for a major falling name next year? (On the theory that names like that get 're-spelled' so many ways that they lose their statistical punch--all the Mylies, Mylees, and Milees will diffuse its rank.)

Has anyone read the SSA's attempt to analyze a la Laura?
http://www.ssa.gov/pressoffice/pr/baby-names2007-pr.htm
We've made all the same observations and then some.

I think Jessica Alba's Honor is ready to make the Top 1000 list, keeping with the trends of other virtue names that are popular. ITA on Gwen & Gavin and the Jolie-Pitts (who get two chances!) as the tastemakers to watch this summer.

I was giving birth and adjusting to motherhood when the ballots were being sent it, so I didn't get to play this year, but OMG has anyone else seen the HUGE influx of Graces recently? While pregnant, nearly every woman who was having a girl had Grace as either a first or second name for the daughter. And 2 women in my Sunday School class who just had babies had a Dallace Grace and a Grace Emily. Graces everywhere!

I think Honor might have some opportunity for rising this year. It's a great name and slides nicely into some of the trends that are already in place.

Christiana - did you ever tell us the name that you finally chose?

Kudos to the winners! Our area seems to be its own little microcosm so I never know what is really up and coming. Some names seem to come here faster (a lot of the Why Not names are already in common circulation here but none of the creative names!)

Anyone know why the sudden appearance of Ronan as a boys name? I have met three recently under 2 years old but I can't think of a celeb that has made the name popular. People wanting Rowan but scared off by Brooke's little girl? Or am I missing something?

Congratulations Christiana! We had our baby too - he's 10 weeks tomorrow. Isn't it wonderful? (and exhausting!)

PS. Grace is popular here in the 5 to 10 year old set. There is at least one in every class! I'm thinking its current popularity is from the Will and Grace sitcom? That Grace is pretty cute and spunky as a role model.

Christiana, Grace has been chugging strong for the past few years, I think, if you look at the SSA data. It's the name that most makes me wish they would list MIDDLE names, though, because for every Grace I know, I know three other toddlers with Grace as a middle name. It's out of control, like Lynn as a middle name among my 1970s friends.
I think Honor could be a m.n. hit, too.
As mom of a Xavier, I wonder how much it was used as a m.n. in the past, especially with Francis, for the Jesuit-co-founding saint.

RE: Cathie

I won't pretend to know why people are naming their kids Ronan. But my first exposure to the name was through the Harry Potter series. Ronan is a centaur. But, the series has yet to have any real impact on names as of yet... so I don't know.

I think it's more of a perfect situation. An undiscovered celtic name that ends in 'n'

Re: Cathie

I just wanted to butt in that I can think of only one Ronan in the entertainment industry. Ronan Dex is the name of a character on Stargate Atlantis, a Sci-Fi show. It's relatively popular and kind of omni-present. Perhaps that helped the name along, as it's sort of fits the current naming trends: the -on, -an, or -en endings, the super-masculinity feel of it, and perhaps even that the actor who plays Ronan, is tall, muscly and looks "exotic". But then again maybe they just looked in a baby book and said "that one!"

Re: Ronan

It is also, of course, another spelling of the word "ronin," a word that means something along the lines of "outcast Samurai" in feudal Japan.

Actually, here's an "official" defintion: In Japan, under the feudal system, a samurai who had renounced his clan or who had been discharged or ostracized and had become a wanderer without a lord; an outcast; an outlaw.

Although I doubt that has anything to do with the name's popularity ;).

I also wonder if "Rohan" (pronounced the same as Rowan — and also a fun name for Tolkien fans) will become another male alternative for the name which seems to be quickly becoming a female name.

Daniel Day-Lewis's son is named Ronan, and during the various award ceremonies he has mentioned his sons by name. Ronan's brother is named Cashel, and I remember thinking, now that's a pair! Perhaps others heard him acknowledge his kids and got inspired.

Wow, I think I have actually been reading the blog for a year now, how time flies. I remember the 2006 winners being announced around the time I started reading. While I enjoy reading everyone's coments. I don't think I'm nearly enough of a NE to guess on a ballot. It would be fun however, to see middle name statistics. I knkow a few Lees and Lynns as well as a couple of Louises. However, many of my friends and family members are like me and had no middle name. Sorry, this post is turning into more of a ramble then I meant it to be.

Well, I've been told I have an affinity for losers :D

2008 risers- Leona and Honor have already been mentioned, and I bet Pax will make it. Depends on what the Jolie-Pitts name their twins, but doubtless they'll turn up circa 2009 (Zahara's not on the list, but I think it's a little hard to say).

Heath might get a little bump too, and while Matilda was already on the rise, I'll bet Small Miss Ledger's media exposure will give it the boost onto the list.

Maybe Jaslene as a loser for next year- her 15 minutes are over, right?

Since you were talking about guys who post on here, I'd like to mention that I'm another one. Yes, I am a male named Kelly. I like my name, and I strongly support those who want to continue using "unisex" names for boys (as you might have seen from some of my previous comments). I wouldn't be afraid to give a DS of mine a unisex name either; among the names that I like for a boy are Morgan, Rowan, and Shannon.

I agree,any baby girls I've met lately have either Rose or Grace as a middle name. I bet if the statistics on mn were tracked the incidence would decrease. I liken it to Ann or Marie middle name requirement in my childhood. Fastest riser girl name of the moment seems to be Lila. But, I agree with previous posters--whatever Brangelina choose, as well as, the current Soap Opera characters will have a great impact. Unless, B&A name the twins something truly odd, which is possible. I wish it would be the year of characters from Shakespeare or less common flowers or Italian princes.

As I was looking over the SSA list with fresh eyes today, I realized that I'm not as good at judging a name's popularity as I thought I was. Here are some of the things that surprised me -- I'd be curious to hear if they surprise anyone else:

Jocelyn is more popular than Charlotte
Autumn is more popular than Eva
Angela is more popular than Lucy
Jordyn is more popular than Bella
Sabrina is more popular than Stella
Lindsey is more popular than Lucia
Mallory is more popular than Lila
Dulce is more popular than Julie
Ruth is more popular than Rose
Holly is more popular than Fiona
Joy is more popular than Helena
Damaris is more popular than Felicity
Eileen is more popular than Annabel
Martha is more popular than Parker
Sharon is more popular than Amelie
Shirley is more popular than Olive

In Australia it seems that at least every second baby girl has Rose as a middle name. While it's pretty it's becoming very common. I know most of my friends my age (around 30) seem to have Louise. As much as I dislike my middle name of Tracy I was always pleased that I didn't know anyone else with that middle name. No one ever guesses it in the 'guess your middle name competitions' we used to play.

Maureen-Most of those comparisons DO NOT surprise me. The ones that do:
Mallory more than Lila
Damaris more than Felicity
Eileen more than Annabel
Sharon more than Amelie

For those that DON'T surprise me I rationalize this and say that many out there are like me- more "plain Jane's". Parker seems boyish, Olive too out there, and many of the others too old fashioned "grandma" names. And Jordyn was the Idol winner. However, with the ones that DID surprise me, I would've thought Mallory ran it's course in the 80's along with the show she was in with Michael J Fox. (I like the name though). Damaris seems too out there for me but Felicity is an American girl so I am surprised it's not more popular but THAT may be why it isn't. Annabel and Amelie have been mentioned here and seem up and coming. Sharon reminds me of Osborne and Eileen of the song so they are nms. Interesting though!

To AJ re: Xavier -- I'm pretty sure it's been very popular in the past as a mn for Francis because of St. Francis Xavier. There's a company (beer company, I think) in Utica, NY (and elsewhere?) called "F.X. Last Name" (I don't remember the last name) after the founder. I do believe his name was Francis Xavier and he went by F.X. My own great-grandfather (Irish) was a Francis Xavier ... he gave one of his sons his first name as a fn, and another son (my grandfather) his mn as a mn -- my grandfather was David Xavier, which is also my brother's mn (both names -- his full name is Jonathan David Xavier Last Name). I also saw in an Irish name book once that "Frank" was given as a nn specifically for "Francis Xavier" (not just Francis) -- that is, Fran X. "became" Frank in Ireland, at least according to the authors of that name book.

I myself love Xavier and plan to use it (probably as a mn) for a future son.

oh, crud. Earlier comment about my affinity for losers was absolutely *NOT* a reflection of the lovely people here. Just a funny line from my housemate.

Ronan- I know one wee Ronan, and a couple around my own age, and there's Ronan Keating from the 90s boyband Boyzone. It seems like a pretty normal name to me- like Euan, it seems odd it's not yet made the top 1000 in America.

I forgot to add my comments to the original part of the thread-my picks ahead of time for 2009.
Honor and June;Griffin and Cale
and of course we have already mentioned many names that are to be watched such as Lydia, Aubrey/Audrey and the celebs babies due this summer.

Maureen (are you the same Maureen-mother-of Astrid et. al? if so, welcome back!):

I am also surprised by some of those pairings, but I think I can come up with creative explanations for all of them:

I *suspect* based on my experience with some recent-immigrant Hispanic communities (NOT the 4+ generation Mexican-American or Cuban-American communities) that Damaris, Sharon and Joclyn would be strongly favored by immigrant parents for their American-born kids. As we know, Hispanic-Americans have huge statistical presence.

Personally, based on even more experience with African, Middle Eastern, and [Christian] South Indian immigrants, I believe that Shirley, Eileen, Martha, and also Sharon are/would be very popular amongst these groups. However, even added together, these communities number far less than the Hispanic communities (perhaps 4-5 million total? Anyone?)

Many immigrants I know who wanted their kids to assimilate still do pick the typical FOB names (such as my name, "Betty")--i.e. names that were popular in Western movies and media in the 40s, 50s, and 60s. But, I believe that as immigrant gruops are here longer, they are now turning to the tried-and-true 70s and 80s names--see my fuddy duddy discussion below.

Mallory, Holly, Lindsey, and Angela could be an example of the "fuddy duddy" syndrome we discussed a few months back--if I remember correctly, weren't they the group that favors names about half a generation behind the current crop of trends? These are names that are now very familiar to the public "ear" because they were well established throughout the 80s and early 90s--these are the Courtneys, Jessicas, and other now-"safe" names.

As for Olive and Lila, I think this is an e.g. of our own NE minds overestimating popularity in the general population.

Wow, Maureen, ALL those completely surprised me.

But then, on the last thread everyone kept mentioning the name Beatrix as a favorite, with someone even saying something along the lines of it being too quickly rising to use now. I was crushed. That's my favorite name for the next baby (not even concieved yet, but I'm an NE). But then I checked. Beatrix has NEVER been in the top 1,000 names. And still isn't. Beatrice, the closest variant, is listed in the low 800s. So I'm safe. Whew.

Correction: Beatrice is listed at 899.

Maureen -- I found the list surprising if only because the names I like were typically less popular, and they seem so uniformly great to me. But as someone else said, I think that's the skewed perspective of this board. It's so wonderful to find a place where Beatrix (a name I *adore*, Kristine) could possibly be seen as *too popular* to use when it's not even broken the top 1000. That's just funny, but in an entirely good way. (And, Kristine, you should use the name. Definitely.)

I think I have no aptitude for picking rising or falling names (totally out of the pop culture loop that I think is key to success with this exercise), but congrats to Eric and Blythe! Yay, you!

Cathie -- I know one Ronan. He would be almost 2 yrs old now.

Kelly -- I went to high school in the mid 80s with 3 male Kellys plus at least one male Shannon. Those are both unisex names I think can still work in that capacity.

Yes, Easternbetty, same Maureen -- thanks for the welcome back! Your explanation is probably right-on, as usual. I realize that my surprise at those comparisons only sheds light on my own ignorance of naming communities/trends outside of my own circles -- my perceptions of the popularity of some of those names nationally are clearly skewed because of their popularity in the circles I run in -- I was just so surprised to see that people are still using names like Mallory, Joy, Eileen, Martha, and Shirley in fair numbers. In fact, I was surprised to find that a lot of the names I was ready to post as "Why Nots" in the previous thread were listed fairly high up in the SSA charts!

I do know a couple preschoolers here in Los Angeles named Lindsay and Angela--both little blonde girls with American-born moms and dads. I think Lindsay is just a name her mother was always going to use, from her girlhood (in the Lindsay Wagner era?)--Lindsay Lohan or no, she was going to use that name. Angela is named for a grandmother or auntie, I believe--as is her little sister, Teresa.

Angela will probably always rank well because of its meaning, and because it works across languages (English/Spanish/Italian/German--and even Indian families will find it close to the common girls' name Anjali). It's an easy name to have, not babyish, no spelling or pronunciation hassles, plenty of nickname options (Angie, obviously, but Ann/Anna is also plausible, and the "long nickname" diminuitives like Angelina).

Ah, so it is the legendary naming hero Maureen! I'm sorry if you've been asked a zillion times, but what was the final name?

Sushi: you are correct that Angela seems like it will be a perennial presence, perhaps in the same fashion as "Laura." Both names have looong pedigrees, both cross multiple languages and nationalities, and both are clearly "female" without screaming "frills and lace."

The Lindsay example you gave is precisely what I understood "fuddy duddy" namers to use. These are names that were fresh half a generation ago (for your friend, the name was fresh for girls in the 70s), and which the FD namer uses now, despite the fact that many trends have sprung up since then. I'm thinking back a few months now, so forgive the memory lapses, but I believe the idea was that FDs don't really see the names as past their prime--they are in fact what the namer thinks of a "a good name to name a baby" i.e. recognizable but not boring.

I remember we had a few self-described FDs, though there was some differentiation between sub-cultures--I think Barnyardmama thought of her naming preferences (Charlie??--plain and serviceable names) as FD, whereas others felt FD was more like the definition I gave above e.g. Lindsay, Karen, Heather, and Jason for a 2008 baby.

FDers, come on out and represent.

Being a Fuddy Duddy takes independence and a bit of guts, I'd say. You have the Olives and Blues on the one side of you, and the Mileys, Kileys, and Jaydens on the other; you have the family-namers/honorers floating around somewhere above with their varied assortment of granparent or mothers' maiden names.

And then you have the person who decides that their '08 baby will be named Jennifer or Kevin or Michelle--all perfectly fine names that most 2008 parents wouldn't touch with a 10 foot stick because...those are probably the names of a lot of those 2008 parents.

ARRRGH. Grandparents has a "d."

Yay, Easternbetty, such fun to see you posting again! Now if only Tansey from New Zealand and Robyn (from Hawaii, I think?) would check in. You three have divergent writing styles and personas that I always enjoy seeing represented here...

I was the one who started using Fuddy Duddy here, but to mean something very different than you remember.

I was referring to the sort of parent, who loves giving family names, often surnames, to their children as a way of honoring beloved, esp. deceased relatives and family connections. Other names of choice for Fuddys would be Biblicals, of course, the old Norman stalwarts like "William" etc., and the old saints' names- "Hugh", "George", etc.

The surnames that would be given would not be the mass market ones, but ones that are meaningful perhaps only to the family who bestows them.

For example-- my uncle, Trennum John Perry. "Trennum" for his mother's maiden name, "John" for his father (who was named after Methodist reformer John Wesley, and no doubt, countless other John Perrys!)

I meant "Fuddy-ism" to connote perhaps older parents like me and hubby who are culturally conservative and traditionalist in their world view, and whose names often reflect that...

I was amused as the discussion went along to note that some posters were thinking fuddy-duddyism was more along the lines you are describing. Maybe we can come up with another term for that phenom-- "Disco-era Dubbing"?!!

A true Fuddy would not call a baby "Kevin", "Heather" or "Jason". Think more along the lines of "Rose", "Tucker", "Wonnacott", "Eli", "Gordon" "Mary" or "Thomas".

Some Fuddy names DO turn out to be fashionable by today's standards, but if so, that is strictly an accident!

I do so love getting to share my knowledge of Irish names on this board.

Ronan. This is a fairly standard Celtic name and has been regularly used in Ireland/Northern Ireland for about 40 years. It's also used in Brittany in France. (I knew a few at uni in Ireland, and recently met one at a French wedding.) However, nothing along its line was known of in America until John Sayles made the film "The Secret of Roan Inish" in 1994. After the film a few celebrities picking up Roan as a name for their sons (Sharon Stone and Uma Thurman).

Roan is not used as a name in Ireland. But Ronan is, and I would imagine that the savvy want-an-Irish-name pickers who find Aidan too ordinary and Declan a bit more out there are turning to this. The centaur in Harry Potter can only be a bit of a boost. The samurai thing, for Irish people, has nothing whatever to do with it - Ronan means 'little seal'.

As for Rohan, in the UK this name is more common among the Indian/SEA population. It's a Celtic name that due to the cricketer Rohan Kankai has crossed over. My husband knew a Rohan from uni who was named for his grandfather, who was named for the cricketer. (Interesting especially based on the previous ethnic context thread...)

Well done to the name pool winners!

Hi there Eo! I was swamped for the past few weeks but am glad to have "returned."

Glad to see my blabbiness is of such a distinctive sort. Now, your comments are not blabbing, but are certainly distinctive and always welcome.

Now I see where my memory went astray, but at least it was right about SOMEONE--don't know who--interpreting Fuddy Duddy in the half-generation fashion I described.

Having left my legacy with NE, I feel no pressure to coin anything for the latter phenomenon. ;)But, being a true NE, I do want to come up with a name for it. Sadly, must dash to work: will let my mind ruminate, and will report back...

My husband and I are probably "fuddy-duddies".

I was 35 when I had my first. We were looking for a name outside of the most popular, but wanted a name common enough to be simple to spell, introduce etc. Bonus points for a Catholic Saint's name. Something that didn't sound ridiculous with an Italian last name. We chose Timothy Joseph LN.

As a name Tim pleases his grandparents as well as his parents, none of whom are trendy enough to seek out a popular name. Indeed, when my parents chose Megan, they wanted (and had for a time) an unpopular name.

My question to you: my husband is a FN MN LN Jr.. He was adamant that we not have a FN MN LN III. Hubby hates the confusion factor. So my question to all you NEs: Who names their kid FN MN LN Jr.?

Megan,

My husband is a IV!! One of my first thoughts when we started dating many years ago was that I really hope this guy doesn't want his child to be a fifth! Lucky for me, he doesn't care. We've never talked about it with his family so I am not sure how they feel about continuing the name. All I know is that when the time comes, we are not having a V.

That practice of naming children Junior, II, IV, etc. seems distinctly American to me. I haven't come across it in the UK. It seems like a way of creating some kind of feeling of dynasty or legacy. Is that true? Would anyone care to explain?

There was an interesting post on another blog regarding what to nick name children that are Jr. III or IV...

I thought it was interesting.

http://swistlebabynames.blogspot.com/2008/06/nicknames-for-fourth-iv.html

I have the numbered lineage in my background. My great grandfather was a William LN, an emigrant from Ireland to Ontario (known as Western Canada at the time.) His second son was named William Edward, then his second son was W.E. Jr, etc. It got down to W.E. IV but that couple had three daughters so didn't go further!

There was some sense of pride in this succession as the original W.E. created a reputation of considerable note, establishing a bench mark that each generation aspired to meet or surpass.

Of interest is that the surname Macklin is used as a first or middle name repeatedly through various branches of the extended families, primarily for boys but as middle name for some of the girls. It is a way to honour a fine person but not likely would have been used if the name was difficult or "out there" ?.

By the way, what exactly is "out there" ? :-)

My husband's older brother was a II and has a III and now my oldest son is a II as well. IN fact I was informed of my husbands desires when we were only dating and when we found out we were having a boy, the only question was whether to use Jr or II. I have to say that I never planned on naming exactly after my husband but when faced with how much my husband wanted this and the fact that I do like his name, I didn't feel it worth the fight. As the second son he was named after his grandfathers and that is what we ended up doing for our second son as well. He sees it as following a family tradition (though the tradition was only started with his generation's names) and as a way of having a connection to his sons. Many people brought up the confusion issue but he just would say that it wasn't a problem growing up with his dad and his brother so why should it be for us. It sometimes is confusing, but I just call my son by both his names if I need to differentiate.

I was posting to both blogs yesterday, so in case anyone missed it since this blog has moved on I will repost some interesting things I found from Nancy's blog:
A blog about 2008 names.
http://www.nancy.cc/2008/01/03/first-babies-and-first-baby-names-of-2008/
and a while back we had been remarking on the popularity of the Aiden/Jaiden/Brayden/etc. set and an adjusted top 10 list. Well the Nancy person from the blog above has done it. (I found it by clicking around on the links-some interesting stuff there) or click here:
http://www.nancy.cc/category/names/trends/

Also, I think I fall into the "Retro-Namer" category with some trendy tendencies. I've mentioned before that my picks for names fall into the Katie, Jessica, Brian, Jeffrey genre. But I also like Lydia that we've been discussing and Emily as well. I think Hugh, Augustus, Olive and Maeve are not me. It reminds me of when we first had the discussion and we were discussing the family on the Real Lives of Wives (or something like that) where they named their boy some rather English-pretentious name and then tried to be something they were not (though they claimed they weren't). Fuddyduddy names TO ME sound English and like they belong in a book I am required to read rather than something I would read for fun. Like a "would you join me for tea" kind of thing rather than "lets have a picnic". I am trying to explain w/o offending anyone so please don't be upset at my characterizations but this is just what comes to mind when I think of some of those names. I grew up in the 70's + 80's so this is my comfort zone of names.
However, naming for a family member transcends these characterizations of course.

These posts move to quick LOL. On the subject of Jr's and so on. My dh is a JR. My dad is a JR and my brother a III. I was determined NOT to name any sons in succession and so was my dh luckily so thankfully it wasn't an issue. I do not really care for either my dad's or my fil's name and think we picked a gr8 name for my ds. I also study my family's genealogy so I have found some interesting names in my heritage. Looking back I may have picked a different middle name for my ds but in a variation my dd is named after her gggrandmother. All in all I think they have good names.

Swistle sort of had the numbering rules right, but not quite. Sr. is used only for widows, to distinguish them from daughters-in-law whose husbands have the same name as their deceased fathers. No man should be John Smith, Sr. Not that anyone follows that rule either.

As for nicknames I once briefly dated a II who was called Tooey.

Another little Swistle boo-boo, in German vier is pronounced 'feer'. Our 'v' sound is spelled with a 'w'. The Dutch sound spelled 'v' is not quite either v or f, at least not to my ears.

i am not a jr or a III but i am the third William in the family. my dad's maternal uncle was the first, then my dad, then me. my mom was just talking about how people gave her a hard time about the name when she was pregnant (my dad insisted on William) but then several months later Princess Di had Prince William. my mom felt vindicated, as royals copied her.

Zoerhenne-thanks so much for the link to the "first babies" list. I particularly was struck by:

Ziclaly Alonzo (girl)
Semaj G'ntae (I know about Semaj being James backwards, but how on earth do you pronounce G'ntae??)
JaKenya
A'Mirikah Brennae (screams KREE8IVE...)
Hunter Remington (hmmm, wonder how they feel about guns)
Zai-Arreyon
DaKorian Windell

Ha, Zoerhenne, that family on "Real Housewives of NYC" named their American son "Francois", and insisted he speak French at age three, etc! I had almost forgotten that! And they named their other toddler "Johan", I think. It was pretty funny, and also a bit sad too.

But as a Fuddy, I can say that mere affection for family names, or older names, or Biblical or saints'names, doesn't indicate the kind of snobbery or pretension you seem to be describing. It doesn't have to do with social class or ethnicity.

My motley collection of ancestors and relatives, many of whom were desperately poor coal miners, seamstresses, country yeomen, etc., exhibited all the classic Fuddy taste in names...

Megan W., your "Timothy Joseph" strikes me as classically fuddy, striking several of the themes at once. We have a Timothy in our extended family too-- I love the three-syllable swing of it. Incidentally, my favorite "pop culture" (from the Forties!) "Timothy" was the husband of Claudette Colbert who was away in World War II in the classic Selznick flick "Since You Went Away".

You never get to see "Tim" in the film, except in framed photos strewn around. But he was a major presence, always in Claudette's and the children's thoughts. And he wrote her fabulous, wry, heart-wrenching notes signed with the same little tipsy signature, "Tim", at the end. I think that's partly what made me love the name...

Timothy-lovely name...and the mention just inspired me to find the Italian equivalent. Timoteo(tim-O-teo)--what do you think? Is it still too "out there"? I think the pronunciation and spelling are fairly straight forward, it has built in nns, if needed-Tim, Teo or Timo. I think I'd like it with a fine Italian last name...Any takers?

We are actually strongly considering naming ours (if a boy) Jr. My husband would have been a III, but his father apparently didn't like his own first name, and so changed it for my husband. At least 3 generations of the boys have the same middle name and the same initials.

The initials are the major reason we are considering having a Jr. I just don't like the sound of any other name with our last name, and having to choose from just 1 letter really narrows down the choices.

Just catching up here and had to respond to the last few posts on the "Why Not" thread - sorry for the digression:

As a mother of daughters named Avery and Rowan, I'm starting to feel not-so-welcome here.

Though we have a family connection with Avery's name and we view Rowan as more of a nature name (Rowan tree), we ultimately chose these names because loved them, purely and simply.

I never thought that I'd have to defend my name choices on this board. This is depressing me. I am interested in name trends and I find this board to be a most insightful group. Although I don't care for certain names and styles, I certainly try not to pass judgement. Am I just feeling extra sensitive?

There's no particular tradition of jrs in my family, but reading through the comments I realised that my father, grandfather and great-grandfather had the same name- but one went by John, the second Jack, and my father by his mn. Ditto for my mum, who shared her name with my grandmother- mum's got one nickname, my grandmother was known exclusively by another. That sort of thing happens all through both sides of my family, with nary a roman numeral in sight :) I do think of jr/III as either an American tradition, or a tradition of folks with a more illustrious Ontario heritage than my family's farming and shopkeeping ancestors.

Eo- thanks for clarifying "fuddies!" It's funny, I'm nowheres near the demographic profile you suggested for the fuddy-duddy namers, but I'm certain I fit the criteria name-style wise.

As for the perception of rising names (Easternbetty and Kristine?), I think the internation mix here accounts for the disparity between the opinions here and the "reality" of the SSA's list. For example, Edith, Iris, Leona and Constance cracked the top 300 in England & Wales in 2007, while Florence (109), Lois (111), Esme (120) and Beatrice (130) have been rising fast. Can't help with Olive and Lila, though!

Mari

Please don't feel judged by naming your daughters Avery and Rowan. I like to think of this board as a place to disagree, with respect.

I enjoy living in a world where people don't see eye to eye with me. Neither Avery or Rowan is my style, but lots of things aren't my style. (Plenty of my students would argue for my lack of style in many categories!).

Personally, I just like learning (or guessing at) the demographics of parents doing the naming. I would never name a child Mylie, but I'm 37, and know Hannah Montana mostly through this board. I would name a child something to be nickname "Millie" because it is an old classic nickname. But, that's just me.

Mari -- Please don't feel you have to defend your name choices. They're both wonderful names, and choosing names because you love them is a perfect reason. People choose their children's names based on all sorts of criteria and there isn't a "right" way to make that choice, only a way that's right for each individual family.

Re: Jrs ... My dad, brother, and nephew all share the same initials. Not exactly the same thing, but similar.

re fuddy naming: How often do your name tastes change? Perhaps fuddies simply have name tastes that stay constant over time, whereas I've found my tastes have drifted considerably even since I named DS 5 years ago.

My grandfather's name is Clifford. One of his sons (I believe he was the 5th?) is Clifford II, and one of HIS sons (the second son) is Clifford III. I always thought the Jr/III/etc. was traditionally the first born. I wonder if it was my grandfather or grandmother who looked at son #5 and said, "OK, fine, we'll name him Clifford!"

Tess-- Lovely! "Timoteo" is delicious, and the nicknames good as well.

I also liked your wish for names of "characters from Shakespeare, less common flowers, and Italian princes". You've more than a bit of the poet in you...

Mari, I don't think anyone meant to malign your children's names, nor your reasons for choosing them. As far as the discussion of girls bearing traditional boys' names (which is the conversation that revolved around Rowan and to which I assume you refer) I don't think the issue was that it's wrong or bad for parents to give their daughters names that had been used for boys. The problem is a societal one, not an individual one--that once something, anything, becomes associated with femaleness it is no longer appropriate for men, whereas the reverse does not (always) hold true. Think of the stares a male knitter would get in public--he's doing something beneath him, acting like a woman. Though I think Rowan is such an uncommon name in the US that there's no widespread consensus that it properly belongs to one gender over the other.

Anyway, that's my two cents on the scurfuffle. I think your daughters' names are very pretty. I have friends with a daughter whose mn is Avery, and I thought that was a great, somewhat unconventional choice--even if it did make her initials spell BAD :)

Mari, please don't feel unwelcome here! I think this board is a wonderful place to disagree respectfully with one another and hear new and different perspectives on names and naming, and I hope that we can all assume the best intentions when we disagree. I don't think anyone was trying to say that Avery and Rowan are bad choices in the least. And in case you got the sense that most of the people on here don't like those choices, I'll just say that I happen to find them lovely. Although I went with a different style for my daughters' names, Avery and Rowan are both names that I considered (for girls) long ago, and I still think they're beautiful/handsome names for either sex.

Eo- Thank you, you are kind.-I take that as high praise from you, the queen of the Medieval and little known names. And an eloquent source of discourse on all things nameworthy.:) And Mari-- Your girls names are lovely and meaningful. No defense needed--please feel welcome always. I think opinions run strong here, as does tolerance. Perhaps Timoteo is not everyone's cuppa, but it delights me to have a place to suggest it to the world. I echo Coll's perception that it is more about the sexist reality that names tend to crossover in one direction. Except for a Boy named Sue, I guess.

Maureen,

Can you tell us what you decided on for daughter number 4?

Mari, I think Avery and Rowan are very lovely choices for your daughters names - they go together perfectly.

To echo others' comments, I think that Avery and Rowan are great choices for both boys and girls, although I confess that I automatically think "girl" for the former and "either" for the latter. An acquaintance once nannied for a set of twins named Avery and Aidan and I was stunned to discover that the boy was Avery and the girl Aidan...

RE: Fuddy Duddy naming, I am probably a fuddy duddy, but I have yet to name anyone. My top two choices for boys would be Walter and Karl, for husbands grandfather, and an Uncle of mine. We also like Henry, my grandfathers mn. For girls I would seriously consider Mabel, my grandmothers name, but I also like Adah and Eleanor - which are names of no-one in either of our families, and since family names are important to me, I would probably choose a family name as a middle name.
And RE: Jr, III and IV - my brother is a William, and is probably the 5th William in that paternal line going back to Germany, where it was Wilhelm. But they all have different middle names, so no jr or III or IV.
And to add to the comment above, Just met a little girl named Aidan - probably about 3 years old. Interesting!

On the Jr, III line my feeling is that this is a practice of certain subcultures. Out of the people I know it seems to be more common in the South. Naming girls after their mothers is not unheard of there either. Another III I know is from a Mayflower type family in New England. The third group I think of is Latinos for some reason. Family tradition and honor may be important for all these groups.

Thank you for all the kind comments. I guess it's natural to bristle a bit when you see the names of your children discussed over and over again!

Megan W -
So you don't have to guess about me: I'm in my mid 30s, I live just outside of Boston, I hold an BA in Lit from Brown, I used to work in healthcare/marketing field, and now I'm a stay at home mom/aspiring writer. In a nutshell.

And ON topic -
I think Miley will continue to climb and climb. Top 100 in the next 2 years. Other big jumpers: Lila, Matilda, Iris, Harper, Harlow for the girls...and Heath, Gavin, Jonah for the boys.

My grandmother's family has a set of II, III, etc. Her Grandfather was Patrick Francis LN and her great-great nephew is Patrick Francis LN VI. The four who are currently living go by Pat, Frank, Patrick, and Patrick.

That same family had an even better tradition for daughters (sarcasm). The first daughter receives a name which rhymes with her mother's name. As the sixth person in line for this honor I believe that this is primarily responsible for my interest in names. It's probably also why my daughter not only does not rhyme, but has one of those out there names that cause double takes. (I really love the name, the out there part was just a bonus.)

My son, husband, and father-in-law all have the same initials, JSP, and the same middle name, Stewart, which is the first name of my husband's grandfather. So, we have Richard Stewart, then James Stewart, then Joshua Stewart, and then my son, John Stewart.

Only AFTER I finally agreed to name him Stewart, which is not a very pretty sounding name to my ear (I suggested Sidney), did I discover that my husband's grandmother, the mother of James Stewart disliked Stewart but gave in, that my husband's mother disliked Stewart but gave in, and that so, of course, did I. So there you go. I sincerely hope that my daughter-in-law sticks to her guns and ends the tyranny of Stewart!

Of course, in 25 years or so, when my son John Stewart is naming his first son, Stewart will probably be totally hip.

KRC, We went with Delphine Lucia for daughter #4. We waited until the last minute to choose between Delphine Lucia, Delphine Victoria, and Delphine Leonora, and we're very happy with the choice!

c. elizabeth--please tell me her name--I won't tell anyone.I am waiting with baited breath...and I know I'll love it! On another topic: my adorable, brilliant,loving, hardworking chef son and his magnificent wife are not pregnant with their second child...that part is fine. Every once in a while they throw out a name for the next male progeny. I think we do it instead of playing Password. For my son, it is usually something he has thought about for 12 seconds-sort of like a new tantalizing dish for Thursday's special:)--which is forgotten on Friday.. Anyway, their boy names in the last year have included Rocco,Henry, Finn, Barnaby, Dashiell-all disqualified, by him or them, for various reasons. I always express liking the names-partly because I really like them and partly because I don't want to be a French/ Irish Mother- kvetch. Well, he recently offered a new name for discussion and said, "Don't you love it?" The name is CRISPIN. I do think it is a distinctive, handsome name and very British and a stetch for me . If his last name were Ashwood, I could see it. His last name is Italian--and, to me, it seems an extreme combo.... a dish that doesn't delight. I would love my imaginary Crispy Critter. I would never say a word. I am not suggesting that they need to name the child Giacomo, but think of a last name like Fragola (stawberries are in season!). Oh, and think of a perfect sister named Marin( sometimes Marina)-but it ends in n, as well.. Gut reactions please--and suggestions. I won't repeat a word you said and I promise I am not a meddling Nana. Honest. And I do much prefer Crispin to Miley-but Crispin, really?

I have to say I REALLY like the name Crispin. But every name kind of has to be judged in full, along with a last name. So, maybe it doesn't work in their case. But of all their suggestions, I think Crispin is my favorite, really.

Actually... I see why you'd have the sense that Crispin is an English Lit kind of name, because of Henry V, but wasn't Crispin a really old Roman saint, originally? I may be wrong... I'll wikipedia it. Be back in a sec.

Wikipedia:
"Crispin and Crispinian are the Christian patron saints of cobblers, tanners, and leather workers. Born to a noble Roman family in the 3rd century AD, Saints Crispin and Crispinian, twin brothers, fled persecution for their faith, winding up in Soissons, where they preached Christianity to the Gauls and made shoes by night. Their success attracted the ire of Rictus Varus, the governor of Belgic Gaul, who had them tortured and beheaded c. 286. In the 6th century, a church was built in their honour at Soissons. Crispian and Crispinian are also associated with the town of Faversham in Kent. In early 2007 the parish church of St Mary of Charity dedicated an altar to Crispin and Crispinian in the South aisle of the church.

The supposed tombs of the saints are in Rome in the church of San Lorenzo in Panisperna."

Kristine -- In my husband's family there was a not all that long, but still quite present use of the name Burchard. He was dead set against using it if we had had a boy. Shew!

c. Elizabeth -- Please tell! I'm so intrigued now!

Maureen -- Congrats on Delphine Lucia! (Is the mn pron Loo-see-a or Lu-chee-a?)

Tess -- I'm not a fan of Crispin. I just can't get past the "crisp" part of it, and I'm not sure it would meld well with the ln you describe IMO. (I do like some inter-ethnic names, if you will, but I'm not sure this one would work all that well.)

Tess, I really, really like the name Crispin, but I'm obsessed with vedy old-fashioned British names (Simon, Alistair, Reginald, Henrietta, Louisa, and so on). It also makes me think of Crispin Bonham-Carter, who played Mr Bingley in the Jennifer Ehle/Colin Firth version of Pride and Prejudice (end lit-geek rambling).

But only you know how the whole name together would sound, so I'll defer to your judgment. I love the name Frederick, but could never use it because it would sound ridiculous with my husband's last name (which ends in -dick). Then again, if your son does choose it, I'm sure Crispin will feel natural and appropriate in no time. (Though I still haven't quite gotten behind my b-i-l and s-i-l's recent choice of Sophia for their baby, so maybe don't take my advice on that).

Tess -
I associate Crispin with the offbeat actor Crispin Glover - he played George McFly in 1985's Back to the Future. (A quick google search reveals that his name is actually Crispin HELLION Glover, if you can believe that! Hellion!)

Anyway, I agree with your opinion of Crispin, especially when paired with an Italian last name. Perhaps not the best fit. But what strikes me more is that you said your son is a chef... a chef with a son named Crispin!

I do love some of their other choices esp Henry, Finn and Dashiell. With the modern (and stunning!) Marin as a sister, I think Dashiell/Dash works best. Finn and Marin might be too "sea" themed, and Henry may be a bit traditional/common in this sibset. What about Julian, Alec, Hugh, Gerard or Ambrose?

Just for kicks and giggles I put Marin into the Nymbler... and in the first group of names guess what came up! Crispin!

HA!

The crazy nymbler agrees with the sibling set, although I don't.

I have a niece named Marin (part of sibling set Caden, Jenna, Marin, and baby Brynn).

That's all. :D

Maureen-- I love and adore Delphine Lucia. Kristine- Thank you for your words and insight. Based on it, I think Lorenzo-from the church in Rome you mentioned-is the Divine direction! Coll- Funny, but I can get behind Simon, for instance, because I can trace it back to a broader cultural derivation, I guess. Now that I know there is a church in Rome named after him, I can try to rethink it or add an O to the end. :) Amy3- Maybe Crispy is a good name for a chef's son and I am being shortsighted. It definitely beats Saute.. and that ends with a vowel. Thanks all. Next week's name will probably be Sigmund, and I'll be craving Crispin.

Tess- I happen to adore Crispin. I think it sounds very English but also sporty and handsome. It reminds me of one of my other favorites-Spencer.
I think you should avoid reacting too strongly to it, though, because I suspect your son might have a bit of fun with you if he knows you feel strongly about it (just a guess on my part)!

Mari-My boys' names are often sited as examples of names that are boring and over used. I try to keep in mind that posters don't have in mind specific wee ones when they're opining, but every so often I have to speak up, so don't feel bad about it.
I think your girls' names are lovely together,fwiw.

The idea of boys' names being "stolen," by girls comes up on here with some regularity, and I think it's one of those areas where nes of good heart can agree to disagree.
I consider myself a feminist, but I did want names that were firmly masculine for my sons, and I do feel bad for moms of six year old boys named Addison.
On the other hand, I know male Lindsays, Kellys, and Morgans who survived without much damage.
My grandfather, however, dumped Marion as soon as he could!

Take care, all!

Mari- I do love Crispin Glover. I think Dashiell doesn't work because the ln has an "as" in the middle..and Finn didn't work because of their friend's dog(!) and the last name begins with F. I suggested Julian a few years ago, but like Henry--they know too many. And Henry Slater is his great-grandfather's name-too bad. Madeline-- I bet Nymbler came up with Marin as a match for Crispin because they both end in "n" and are a bit unusual. Humph, I don't like matching endings. They may need to consult a professional name-mediator when their time comes. This clearly needs a professional. Maybe Laura does this on the side.

J&H's Mom-- You are on to something with your observation that he will tease me if he feels I truly am dismayed. I went to visit them last week and brought Marin a new dress and a a tasteful ( small) bow to go in her hair and he looked appalled. When I started to remove it for him-- he said leave it, I love it-with a smile. I really could love a Crispin or a Delphine Lucia. Maybe they'll have another girl...or another restaurant. Deep breath--thank you.

RE: Tess

You are right about the 'n' endings. I just looked at all the matching boy names to Marin and every name given ends in the same sound.

Brendan, Corbin, Brenton, Colman, Branson, Albin, Caeden, Brandon, Brennan, Chayton, Colton, Brayden, Devlin, Christian

Nymbler is so goofy sometimes.

Also, I agree with your dislike of matching endings.

Xe'Nedra Damara, and number two got Gwynneth Ariadne so very much not a continuation of 6 generations of Carrie-Mary-Sherry annoyance.

I am thinking Blake for a girl, and the name Serena because of the popularity of the show gossip girl. Also the name Whitney.. America's next top model winner

On this male female name thing, I have a great uncle named Meredith, which is of course traditionally male, but he started using his middle name when little girl Merediths started turning up. It's too bad, because I like Meredith far more than Gerald.

Amy3 -- We use the Loo-SEE-a pronunciation.

c.elizabeth- Thank you for sharing your names.Tell us about Xe'Nedra- what is the derivation and do you pronounce it ze NED ra? I went to school with a Nedra and have never heard it again. And Gwyneth reminds me of the Middle Ages--how pretty. Are they nicknamed? I was imagining Zennie and Gwynn-a nice pair.

Does anyone know how to pronounce the name Roswitha? Also, any thoughts on Winifred? I love the nickname Winnie, and Winifred has really been growing on me lately.

Maureen--

Roswitha was originally Hrotsvit/Hroswitha/Hrotswitha and a whole bunch of other spellings. The most well-known bearer of that name was Hroswitha of Gandersheim, a 10th century Benedictine nun who wrote plays and other literary works. She is generally believed to be the first person to write plays in Europe since the playwrights of ancient Rome whose example she followed. Originally the H- would have been pronounced roughly like the -ch in Bach. The vowel in Ros-, if it is pronounced now as it was then, would be very close to the vowel in 'rots' and the -witha is just as you would expect. I am accustomed to hearing the name in its tenth century form: Hrotsvit/Hrotsvitha. I have never heard it applied to a modern person in its modern form, Roswitha, so I don't know if a modern bearer would prefer a pronunciation of Rose-witha.

Maureen--

My son, now in his late 20s, went to school with a Winifred (Winnie) whose parents were originally from China. The name worked for her.

Re choice for 2008
Here's my pick for the next quick rising name (in America): Kylie. It sounds like Mylee/Miley, which will have reached it's use by date in 12 months. Not that I would call my kid Kylie, every suburban classroom had at least two of them when I was growing up in Sydney, and Kylie Minogue is at icon status here now, but in America the name never reached saturation point and so may seem like a 'fresh' alternative to Miley for the kind of (I'm guessing young) parent who would be naming a child after some tweenage pop star.
Re Crispin- I soooooo wanted to be brave enough to use it, you could maybe use Pinny instead of Crispy for a nickname? I'm just not English or upper crust and the name feels very Oxbridge/English country house, although none of my three son's names (Julian, Jasper,Felix) evoke a sunny, beachy lifestyle either! Their nn's have evolved into Juliebug,Jappie and LeeLee (the Juliebug is now 17 and so the name is for at home use only now). If I had ever had a girl I would have loved the name Adelaide so her nn could be Ladybug.

Susan- Three great names-and equally so, I think. Jasper was a name my son has mentioned and I love, too. The "as" sound doesn't work with the ln.......and there is another popular chef with the name. What would you have named a girl? BTW, I agree that Kylie has been around a bit but hasn't reached its full popularity point yet.

Drat!! I'm old--I forgot you said Adelaide for a girl.. Love it. It reminds me of "Guys and Dolls" and yet, the Cotswolds.. A chef friend of my son's said they should have named their daughter Marin Adelaide, so she could be nicknamed Marinade!

Susan, your nicknames are fun! I imagine a rollicking household!

I've always liked "Christian", and with slightly more reserve, "Crispin". Crispin also yields the darling nickname "Kip", which it shares with "Christopher". "Kip and Marin"-- I like!

Pairing English and Italian names is very sophisticated and elegant. The English have always had such an affinity for Italy-- think the Brownings, Byron, etc. And the long tradition of "the grand tour", etc.

In Laurie Colwin's acclaimed novel, "Happy All the Time", she writes about a very New England family, administering their wealth through something called "The Magna Charta Foundation". She writes of one of the early 19th century members of this philanthropic clan:

"On one of his journeys, Robert Morris had married an Italian wife. Thereafter, all Morrises had Italianate names. Guido's grandfather was Almanso. His father was Sandro. His Uncle Giancarlo was the present administrator of the trust..."

For what it's worth, I find "Crispin Fragola" just as felicitous and interesting as "Giancarlo Morris". Both hint at fascinating family and cultural cross-pollinations...

This Crispin talk is making me remember a story about when my sister was pregnant. She and her husband (a chef) have TOTALLY different views on names. She suggested both Crispin and Brecken (unsure about that spelling) to him and he didn't even believe those were real names. He thought she was making them up! They actually had no baby name book, but she went out and bought one just to prove that they are, in fact, real names! Eventually (when their son was two days old already) they settled on Cooper.

Tess--It is a character from a novel. The author drew it from Nedra latin, meaning awareness. The Xe was added to fit a cultural naming convention within the storyline. I considered the original name but liked the sound of the fictional one better. They have been called Zinnie and Gwen, but not by us. When we use nn they are Ned and Wynnie.

Maureen--I love Winifred, I'd consider using it, but she'd have to be nn Fredi, since I have a Winnie already.

My husband and I are totally different namers as well. We spent months disagreeing, until we decided to split by gender. Which explains how the girls with the unusual names have a new baby brother Kenneth Frank.

I'm coming in late to this conversation, so, to catch up:

Congratulations to the winners! I'm very impressed, since I have such little grasp on pop culture that I couldn't come close to making good picks for the pool.

Mari, I'm very sorry if my comments on the last post made you feel at all unwelcome. I tried to be clear that I was talking more about the societal perception of male names when they start to come into use by girls (Coll expressed this well above), and not pass any judgment on the actual practice of using traditionally masculine names for girls, but I know that when one is talking about the name a person has actually chosen for their child, it can very easily step on toes unintentionally. I apologize if I've done that here. Both of your daughters' names are on my short list of favorites, though--they really are lovely.

Maureen--welcome back! I love the name you chose for your daughter, and I hope you've been having a wonderful babymoon with her.

Re: juniors, etc. Maybe I have a skewed perception of it, but it seems to me that I hear of "Juniors" across socioeconomic classes, but that IIIs, IVs, etc. tend to be more heavily concentrated among the wealthier types. I've mentioned a little Francis "Frank" MN LN III here before that I know from a quite upper crust family--I think he typically goes by Tre(y?), but I've been informed that other little IIIs in his privileged circle often go by "Trip".

Re: Crispin. I like it, almost a lot, but I could never get past "crispy" enough to actually use it.

I've thought about using the name Winifred also (my grandfather's name is Winfred, so it would be a great honor to him). Also, if you're looking for a "Winnie" nickname, I once new a girl named Winnanne (or maybe Wynnanne, can't remember the exact spelling) which I always thought was a very pretty and uncommon name.

If you were adventurous you could even go with Winsome to get the nickname Winnie. "Winsome" is, imo, one of the best English words... right up there with "serendipity" and "miscellaneous" and other trip-off-the-tongue words. Plus it has a nice meaning, like of like Mabel, but not at all down-on-the-farm like Mabel.

Now I'm thinking Winsome as a name sounds familiar... maybe I'm half remembering a character from a book or movie??? Anyone know?

Valerie-You're welcome!

EO-Yes, that was the show! I didn't mean that people that chose those kind of names necessarily had those traits too, I just meant that the names stirred those images in me. Like when we all suggested that Ivy was a little dark haired, bookish yet spunky kind of girl. That doesn't mean that if you have red hair you couldn't be named Ivy, it just doesn't fit my images.

Coll-You sound like you have a "fuddy-duddy" style!

Tess-Timeteo(Tim-uh-Tay-O) doesn't really flow for me. It sounds too much like potato. Crispin is better. Maybe Slater would work.
LOL on the Marinade that is cute!

Maureen-Roswitha looks to me like (Rose-witha) of course nms but better than the original posted by Miriam. I could never get over the "rot" part in it.

Susan-I will respectfully disagree. I think Kylie had its day and that day is done. There are still to many Kaylie, Kayla, Makayla and the like out there for it to go too high.

Ellen-If you'd like to throw out the letter you are choosing from and YOUR naming style I would love to make suggestions as I'm sure many others would.

I happened to meet the mother of a real life baby Miley the other day.
I think I mentioned her before; she's a friend of a friend.
At any rate, I had to open my big mouth and say, "You know, Miley is the number one rising name...blah, blah, blah."
Of course, she immediately got upset and explained how her husband was from Hawaii (is the Miley spelling Hawaiian? Anyone?), and they had picked it out six years ago.
Well, I really felt like a jerk,so I guess next time I run into her I'll have to explain how even the most popular names are only given to a relatively small group!
Isn't it funny how we all have to justify using a popular name?
At any rate, I thought you'd all appreciate a real life Miley report. Her mn is Luna-another pretty, trend-on choice.

I'm thinking Kira/Kyra as a riser. I had thought this one was over, but I'm hearing it all over the place suddenly.

Maureen-Beautiful choice and congratulations!

Maile is the Hawaiian spelling and is pronounced the same as Miley, and according to a couple different sources it means "fragrant vine".

Currently, the Maile spelling is ranked at #45 in Hawaii.

J&H's mom-
I think I remember reading that the Hawaiian version of Miley is spelled Maile. I could be totally off here and if I am, I apologize.

I had a similar situation when my friend named her son Brayden. I started talking about how many boys have the -ayden, aiden, aden, etc ending. She explained that Brayden was a compromise between her and her husband who were arguing over Brandon (to honor a friend of his who had passed away) and Aiden (a family name on her side). For them, Brayden was the obvious choice. I hope I didn't offend her...but she's not one who is easily offended so I think I'm safe...phew.

B-Oops! I was too late, you answered the Miley/Maile question a few minutes before I did!

J&H's Mom- Apparently there's a Hawaiian name Maile, pronounced Miley. Do you know how she was spelling it? I totally understand -we NE's just can't resist commenting on names! I made the3 same mistake when my friend told me she had chosen Lily and she wasn't too pleased either...

Tess- Re: Crispin. Sorry, but as a Brit, it conjures up a very weak, ditsy man to me. But I know these things often have a very different feel across the pond. I much prefer Christian, personally. But I LOVE Marin Clementine!

Kristine- Really enjoyed hearing about Crispin and Crispinian- I could have sworn you made the whole thing up!

Re: Roswitha. My friend's sister bears the name. Their father was German, so they pronounce it Roz-VEE-ta, but as they're Aussies, they call her Rossie.

My husband dated a Nedra and a Delta before we met. Until now, I had never heard either of them used elsewhere!

Maureen- LOVE Delphine Lucia.I hope you're all doing well...

Zoerhenne - Thanks for the offer. The "initials" restriction is apparently only for the boys. Letter is M, and I'd prefer to steer away from "Mar" names, ie Mark, Marshall, etc. My naming style and my husbands are both VERY different, so really any suggestion could fit into either one. Just to give you an idea of mine, though, here is the list of M names I am currently looking at:

Mason
Matthew
Max
Micah
Michael
Miles
Mitchell
Morgan

I look forward to any ideas anyone can offer!

Oh, I guess I should have added, my favorites from that list are Mason and Max with Micah a close 3rd most days, while my husband leans toward Matthew and Michael.

Ellen,

A few more M names:

Milo
Morris
Malcolm

I had others but then realized you didn't want "Mar" names so I had to delete!

From your list, I like Mitchell.

Ellen-Love em already! I have a teddy bear named Maxwell Alexander cause I liked the name back then. My ds's mn is Matthew. I do think it's pretty common tho. I also like Mitchell its a secret favorite. Mason sounds like it could be becoming popular in the Aiden and Cayson trend. I'll have search to find some more for you to think on though since you named most of them already there's not much left!

Re Crispin:Does it need to end in N? Suggestions are:
Giordan (a bit kre8tiv on Jordan)
Darian
Gavin
Lorenzo
Lucian
Emil/Emilio

Eo, I so much enjoyed "Happy All the Time." Isn't it beautifully written? I always think of that novel when I hear "Guido"-- it amused me that this super-WASPy, upper-crust character had that name.

Kristine, I'd never thought of Winsome as a
name, but it's delightful.

Hi Zoerhenne. I guess my style's a little fuddy-duddy, in that I like old-fashioned things very much and adamantly do not want to give my future children names that are in the top 100 for their gender (top 200 for the girls). I'm also drawn to the idea of family naming (for my grandfather, George, for instance), which I believe was a hallmark of the style. But I'm much more influenced by the books I love--which all happen to have been written between 1790 and 1920. Let's call it the (very) long 19th century.

But sometimes I get a rather strange urge (for me) to give a daughter the middle name Kinvarra, which is the town in Ireland from which my family emigrated in the 1890s. Does anyone like that name?

Ellen, I'm going to throw out some possibly insane "M" suggestions:

Malcolm
Manfred
Mather
Matthias
Matthieu
Mac or Mack (on its own or derived from a variety of surnames, like MacAfee, McKenna, etc)
Macauley (if you can ever not thing of Culkin)
Manny
Maverick (found on Name Voyager)
Merrill
Meritt
Meyer
Monroe
Montgomery
Moses
Mortimer
Montana
Murphy
Myles

Yes Maile is a Hawaiian name pronounced Miley, that spelling has never made it to the nationwide list (in Hawaii, it only takes 18 babies named Maile to make it the 45th most popular!) My friends who live on the mainland named their daughter Maile in 2000 and are not too thrilled with the whole Miley pheomonon.

Wow-thank you for the feedback on Crispin-I must get the Laurie Colwin book that Eo mentioned, "Happy All the Time"-.Nikki, Zoerhenne, Hyz, Valerie--I will save your comments if I am ever asked for feedback.It does sound quite British-more so than most English names. I do like that there is a history of sainthood and a church in Roma in St. Crispin's honor! On Maile--isn't that the name of one of Barack Obama's daughters?If so, that could certainly bring the name to prominence in the years ahead--if he wins. That name(Maile) was also on my version of the Laura-provided,university-affiliated quiz we took on name preferences awhile ago. BTW, I wonder what that study was trying to determine and I wonder if NEs skewed the results? Anyway, I remember nixing the name Maile because I saw Mal(bad) and Male in it-so it didn't appeal to me-plus, I didn't know how to pronounce it.

Sorry, the Obama girls are Sasha and Malia. And the name I disliked on the questionnaire was Malia. I now think it is Hawaiian(like Maile) and pronounced ma-LEE-uh. So- I predict both Obama girls' names as up-and-comers if he wins.

Obama's daughter is Malia (pronounced Mah-LEE-ah), not Maile. His other daughter is Sasha, which seems increasingly popular for girls (Jerry Seinfeld has a daughter with that name).

Susan, forgot to say that I love your Julian, Jasper, Felix set. Great names!

Maile is the name of a fragrant flower that is very commonly used in Hawaiian leis. It is my understanding that it has been used as a Hawaiian girl name for decades.

Hi this is my first post but I love this blog!I found it recently but I also happened to have read the book a while ago.

Maverick was the name of my brother's best friend as a kid, I've always really liked it.

Malcolm is another of my favorite m names.

For a really odd choice: Murray (my dad's name)
my mom and aunt are convinced my grandparents named him after murray county in MN where he was born. the truth remain a mystery LOL!

oops! that should be remains

Apparently Obama's daughter Sasha's real name is Natasha.

Also Jerry Seinfeld's kids are named Sascha, Julian, and Shepherd.

Yes, Coll, isn't Laurie Colwin great? Love her short stories too. I think she must have been a Name Enthusiast also. Guido's wife has a cousin who's sort of a narcissistic preppy equestrienne named "Gem Jaspar". Then there's another relative, theater producer "Hester Gallinule".

My favorite is the slightly demented and other-worldly but fiendishly organized secretary at the Magna Charta foundation-- her name is something like, "Betty-Helen Carnhoops"... The names are all so apt for their characters...

From the "M" list, I've always liked "Miles/Myles" and the MacBethian "Malcolm". I wonder if Miles is getting too popular? You hear it a lot now.

Also, "Mitchell" and "Montgomery", for the right sort of child. I still can't get over that adorable 5 year old Montgomery, nicknamed "Mo"!

I haven't read all the comments yet, but I'll stick my neck out and make a couple of predictions for 2008.

Fast riser - Juno
Fast faller - Jaslene

I know a couple of others that I have read mentioned Jaslene and I totally agree.

Hi everyone, I've been lurking for awhile but thought I would finally join in on the discussion. I love to play the "name game" with my husband, but since he is a little tired of it, and we have completely different naming styles, he suggested I find someone else to play with for awhile : ) At least until we're pregnant. so...

I'm not a fan of Miley, but I do like the Hawaiian spelling.

I love the name Sasha.

Some "M" names to consider:
Malachi
Madden
Marshall
Mathis
Mercer
Merlon
Merric
Milo
Moses
Monte
Monroe
Mordecai
Montgomery

and to c. Elizabeth--I love David Eddings and there are many names fomr his books i wish I could use: )

oops, I can't type...make that "from his books I wish I could use."

is this site now down?

Ellen-
While I was away searching for more M names for you the others beat me to it. Seems ya have all of em now so I'll give my opinions and play devils advocate. We seem like we have a similar style but not knowing your last name can't say whether these will match or not. Also, do you have any other children the name needs to "match"?
Mason, Miles/Milo-maybe becoming popular
Mathew, Max, Michael-plain but perfect
Mackenzie, Maverick-ok maybe tough to pull of unless right kind of kid
Micah,Morgan-taken by girls so maybe not
Malcolm-reminds me of Malcom in the Middle-NO!
Murray, Murphy-too much like pets names
Monroe, Malachi-on the why not-maybe but probably no list
Maguire-did anyone mention this one? nn Maggy or Mags-hmm maybe not for everyone and maybe too girly of nn
Mitchell-the absolute perfect name LOL
Ok so I am biased a bit but I had fun!

Now having read all the comments ... LOL

My brother is the eighth or so James LN, but they've never done the numbering thing. In fact, several James LNs along the way were the 3rd or 4th son. And my brother says if he has a son, he'll name the poor kid James LN.

After Rowan was born, I worked on his family tree a little bit and found out my maternal uncle Darrell was actually William Darrell after his father and grandfather, both Williams.

I don't know if I'm a bit Fuddy Duddy or not. If it were just me, Rowan would probably have ended up an Edward, William, Thomas, or Charles. Or he may have ended up as Felix, Orson, or Calvin (don't ask). Though if he'd been a girl he may have ended up an Eleanor, Hazel, Lillian, or Ellen. I have a thing for L's I guess. Maybe that's why I like Elfrida. I do like the name Rowan, but it was definitely a compromise.

I'm definitely NOT of the one generation back thing because I wouldn't touch Jason with a 10 foot pole in spite of being the name of a dear friend who was killed a couple of years ago. I just can't bring myself to go to the '70s even for a middle name.

Sarah- May I ask where you have got "Ronan has been regularly used in Ireland/Northern Ireland for about 40 years" info from? It just does not sound right to me. I feel it has been in use alot longer then that, its not exactly common but its not a new name by any means (in my experience) I am only 24 years old but i remeber being young and men older then my father being called Ronan? Just curious.

Zoerhenne et al

Thanks so much for the M names!

I like Mitchell a lot too. I'll be sure to mention it to DH when we discuss names again (which will be when I bring it up again). Who knows, maybe it will become the front runner!

And no, there aren't any other children to worry about (yet). I haven't had a chance to ask if ALL boys need the matching initials or just the fir