The Baby Name Wizard

Apparently, I'm the only one to have actually met a Lemonjello and Orangejello (male twins; they would be about aged 17 now). All I can say is, those two were certainly not urban legends!

Really like Delphine for Delores. Also like Delia with Natalie. If you are bothered by popular names (though with Natalie, I shouldn't think you are), you could go with Delacor (nice meaning).

Thanks for all the Delores thoughts! We'll see where we can go with it. Delilah may still be in the lead (despite the hesitations), although I like Della and Dahlia, and would like Lola were it not for the associations. I actually love Laurel and Loren, but my husband has a negative association with one and a cousin named the other --so he has ruled them both out. We'll keeep working on it. Let me know if you have any additional ideas, and thanks for the brainstorming on our behalf.

Sarah

Sarah, I like the name Natalie very much. It feels young and contemporary to me, while Deloris sounds old in about every way. I'd choose a first name I really like with Natalie and then add a name related to Deloris or to Grandma Deloris' middle name as your second daughter's middle name. I'm all for using family names, but not if the name in question is really out of sync with today's names and/or with your own naming style.

My mother's name is Edna. (Yes, Edna... DIL of Ethel ;-) ). She would have liked me to name a daughter after her, but I couldn't do that to one of my daughters. Before we adopted daughters 3 and 4, it occurred to me that my mother's full name Edna Millie could be contracted to E'Millie = Emilie (French spelling, which goes with our ethnic background too). I liked Emilie and thought it would be a nice middle name honoring my mother, but she said, "That's not my name." Years later when my oldest daughter was naming her 3rd daughter she considered Emilie -- and now my mother was delighted with the prospect of having someone named "after her". (But my daughter's husband preferred Emma (not too different in sound from Edna), and that's what they named her, in 1989 when Emily was "too popular" and Emma had not yet been discovered.)

I'd find a good sibling match for Natalie and add a name honoring Grandma (a name that you yourself wouldn't mind having) as her middle name.

Talking about local pockets of naming...

I have eight aunts. Four of them are named Margaret. In fact, of my five aunts by marriage, four are named Margaret.

My mum's name is Patricia. So was the mum of the boy next door, growing up, and there was another mum named Patricia about ten doors down the street. And now my MIL is also a Patricia.

I know Margaret and Patricia were fairly common names in their generation, but I still find that "clumping" amazing.

"What they describe is, in fact, the tradition that has been passed down through my family (and we have verified family records chronicling from pre-1000 AD describing this same family story)."

Am I reading this correctly, Katie? Does your family possess a pre-Conquest manuscript in which this story appears? If so, has this manuscript been published, and if it has, where? If it hasn't, I would LOVE to see a copy of it, or at the least a transcription.

In more general terms, the 1857 text you cite is not a reliable source. There were tons of assorted antiquarians in the 19th century who published texts which do not stand up to scrutiny by modern scholarship, and this guy was one of them. I took a look around, not knowing the history of the surname Peabody offhand. More reliable sources suggest that it is a Middle English nickname for a dandy (derived from peacock).

Barring actual manuscript evidence, I would say that you have a fun family anecdote, not an actual genealogy. Even if you do have ms evidence of this story, there is a huge gap of time between Boudicca's era and the year 1000 AD, so while the ms would be beyond interesting, it would still not be really reliable evidence of descent. And even if the story as you told it is true, it does not claim direct descent from Boudicca, but from a kinsman of hers. In any case there is simply no genealogical data spanning 2000 years, so no one can ever know.

I myself have a family story of descent. My father's father's family are kohanim, which if Exodus is literally true means that we are descended from Aaron, brother of Moses. Now there is no doubt that the men in my father's family are kohanim. My father and grandfather and great-grandfather didn't just make this up. If I had contact with male cousins, sons of my grandfather's brothers, we could demonstrate this by DNA (the genetic relationship of families with kohan status has been proven by the study of Y chromosomes). However, whether there was an actual person named Aaron and whether the priests of Israel were/are in fact descended from him is another story. It is a claim I would not make, although it is nice to think that Aaron was my ancestral father and that Moses and Miriam were my ancestral uncle and aunt. Further than that I would not go.

I personally cannot get too excited about genealogy because as the study of DNA is proving, everyone is related to everyone else anyway. I do, however, admit that genealogies can be interesting. I had a student once hand me a scrap of paper with her family's genealogy written on it. The genealogy traced her family back to the Plantagenet kings of England, and she asked me if I could help her verify it. I knew just who to consult, and it turned out that if the generations in living memory were correct (and they certainly would be), that she is indeed descended from the Plantagenet kings of England several times over. She was descended from Squire Boone, brother of Daniel, and anyone who is descended from the Boones of Berks County (and a ton of people are) is descended from the Plantagenets.

Another genealogical oddity--my gentleman friend and my brother-in-law (who don't know each other and who grew up in widely separated parts of the country) are both direct descendants of the same individual who arrived in Pennsylvania during the colonial period. That individual had many sons, and these two guys are descended from two of the sons. The are both tall and slender and have psoriasis (which is familial), Go figure!

So, yes, humanity is one big family.

From an old Washington Post article:

Even without a documented connection to a notable forebear, experts say, the odds are virtually 100 percent that every person on Earth is descended from one royal personage or another.

"Millions of people have provable descents from medieval monarchs," said Mark Humphrys, a genealogy enthusiast and professor of computer science at Dublin City University in Ireland. "The number of people with unprovable descents must be massive."

By the same token, for every king in a person's family tree there are thousands and thousands of people whose births, lives and deaths went completely unrecorded by history. We'll never know about them, because until recently vital records were rare for all but the noble classes.

It works the other way, too. Anybody who had children more than a few hundred years ago is likely to have millions of descendants today, quite a few of them famous.

Not that it isn't awesome that Katie can trace her family tree to Boadicea. She was pretty amazingly cool.

There was a myth in my husband's family about being descended from John Paul Jones. There were several males in the family named John Paul and a (disputed between sisters-in-law) old portrait of the seaman. But then everyone found out somehow that they weren't actually related. Too bad. (The portrait is still, however, disputed.)

Miriam, I believe we have a lot of really, REALLY old family diaries and family trees - albeit all locked up in a vault at a bank. I don't think my family actually owns the pre-Conquest lit mentioning the family, but that it's in a museum somewhere. Apparently there are several knights rumored to be in the family, which is pretty darn neat. I've only heard all this from my grandparents, whom I'd like to think are telling me the exact truth, but they could be exaggerating, for all I know. What we do know for sure is that whatever the Peabody name came from, it's gone on to do some cool things - I'm prouder to be related to one of the founders of philanthropy and the American mother of the kindergarten than possibly distantly to a queen I know little about. My absolute favorite piece of family literature is a diary my mother owns written by her 3 x great grandmother, a teenager during the Civil War, whose Mississippi home ended up hosting a troop of Union soldiers, one of whom catches her eye. It's so romantic...

I've always liked the idea that everyone is related, somehow, to everyone else. I suppose that means I can imagine one of my many very very ancient ancestors to be an Egyptian princess, like I had always dreamed as a kid. Hey, there's a chance - although considering the factor of religious history, my ancestors were much more likely that Egyptian princess's slave. Oh well.

And, sorry to post so often in a row, but to Sarah:
I'm sure you know about the story of Delilah in the Bible, but just in case:
Judges 16.
Not to imply you shouldn't use it... I mean that story is literally ancient history and it is a very pretty sounding name. Full disclosure is just always a good thing.

John Paul Jones! His was one of the first names I noticed that caused me to realize how much I enjoy a good beat in a name. In fact, good old JPJ may have signaled the start of my NE hobby! Funny how this all goes back around in the end.

Best string-of-short-names name I've found out there is definitely Mindy Paige Davis Page, AKA Paige Davis from Trading Spaces. I just love names like these.

Katie--

Diaries and written out family trees would not date from before 1000 AD. Folks just didn't do such things at that time. If someone in your family knows the designation of the pre-Conquest ms as it is catalogued in the museum or library, I would appreciate knowing what the designation is. Then I could look it up and find out some of the details for you.

As for the reliability of family lore, perhaps you have seen all the folks who go on Antiques Roadshow and say that the family heirloom is of this or that provenance. Sometimes they are right, but very often they are way off, the item being something else altogether, but just as interesting and maybe even more valuable.

The American Peabodys are a well known family with a number of distinguished members, so who needs Queen Boudicca anyway.

And, yeah, it is very plausible that I myself am descended from some royal Egyptian slave....

Thanks, Miriam. I don't know much about the pre-Conquest thing, but it's probably just more family exaggerations that I took as fact. Thank you for being so nice about this. I just always assumed my grandparents, being members of a long-established and charted family, knew exactly what the story was. Now I see it's most likely a combination of lore and possibilites, but I think I'll hang on to Queen Boudicca in my mind anyway. Considering how long ago she lived, and that I have a lot of blood from that area, I probably am a distant relative anyway, along with many millions of people that I don't know. I've always kind of thought that she was really an ancestor of any strong-minded girl. Breaking molds left and right, that one. But it is probably just family lore, the definitive link. I won't tell my mother that, haha! Although she has enough actual primary source written material by my ancestors to make up for it - most people aren't nearly so lucky to have that wonderful link to the past.

And now, after having typed Boudicca's name several dozen times today, I am totally obsessed with the sound of it. Would it be really ridiculous, or only fairly ridiculous to name a kid Boudicca? I know Eo said she thought of it in her more creative moments (which is how this was all brought up, of course). It's actually quite gorgeous. And you could call her Boo! Downsides - the middle syllable, of course...

Hmmmm If we are thinking about resurrecting the name of Boudicca AND if we are looking for names that end in X, why not reconsider the names of two of Julius Caesar's brave Celtic (Gaulish) opponents, Vercingetorix and Ambiorix, both of which would yield the adorable nickname Rix? :-) If you are old enough to have learned Latin by reading Caesar's Gallic Wars (as I am), you will remember these guys.

BrooklynBabe-
I hear the Great Scottish Name Revival is already underway in Australia, at least for the laddies. Lachlan, Angus, Hamish...

Well, I didn't learn Latin by reading Caesar's Gallic Wars (sadly, I never learned it at all), but I wouldn't want to name a child Vercingetorix! He came to a very bad end.

How is Boudicca's name pronounced? It looks too much like "booty call" for me to use it! How's that for taking an elevated discussion right down to the sewer? :),

As to the "Ethel-Mae postulate" (love it!), there were three girls named Mindy on my freshmen hall (of 20 girls). One of them was my roommate, and was she ever a piece of work! Wow. The other two were very sweet and demur I've probably posted about this before, but it's too good a story not to share again. My brother used to work at VA Tech in the physical plant. He was good friends with the man who matched incoming roommates before computers completely took over this task. One year the man decided to have some fun. He created one hall entirely out of girls named Jennifer roomming with girls named Lisa (I'm not sure about the names as my brother is not a NE and didn't bother with what he considered to be an unimportant detail). He created another hall made entirely of young men named Mark, Matthew, Luke, and John. Can you imagine their first meetings together?! And what happened when the hall phones rang? (Those of you who remember hall phones will know how chaotic that must have been.) At any rate, this story illustrates a sort of demonic Ethel-Mae postulate!

Very astute, hyz, little Oksana could very well be an Eastern European adoptee. Thanks also Genevieve for the additional data. Don't you all find yourselves just drinking up all the lovely information, of all types, that comes swelling through these portals...

Have always liked "John Paul Jones". Great rhythm. Another one I like is "Jack Kent Cooke" who I think was a tycoon/sports owner of some kind, very colorful but raffish.

re VATech: what a hoot! I would love that job!

Miriam--
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember that family genealogies don't really show up in ms until the 12th century? At that point I think the hereditary rights were changed and therefore people had to start paying attention to (and recording) who their ancestors were.

BrooklynBabe--
I say, bring on the Scots names! I have Catriona picked out as a mn for a girl. My mum would go spare if I didn't include "Catharine" someplace...we have C/Katha/erine/as going back nine generations. The Gaelic variation is beautiful, different enough from mine, and still keeps the tradition going.

we are about to have our third child in less than a week and can't decide on a boy's name!

i have always been set on arlo, but my husband refuses. i would like a name with an o in it, it doesn't need to be at the end.

if it is a girl her name will be marigold and our two children are named penelope pearl and obediah ukulele. hopefully that will give you a sense of the kind of names we like. can anybody help? time is running out, and i'm pretty certain that the baby is a boy!

Catharine -- I agree, bring on the Scots names. Love them. I'm surprised Ewan and Iain haven't caught on yet, especially with the popularity of Ewan McGregor and Iain Banks, the writer.

Which brings me to a great name for those who like Brittania and Albion but wish to wander further north: Caledonia. Not only is it a kick-ass name on its own, but when you call the kid for dinner, you can yell, Louis Jordan-style, "Cal-doan'YA! Cal-doan'YA!" This would certainly brighten every of a parent's life, if not the child's.

Plus, Cal is a pretty cool nick for a girl.

RE: The zeitgeist for the name Vivian: Starbucks just introduced new smoothies called "Vivanno."

megan -- Congrats on baby #3! In BNW Laura suggests as sibs for Arlo (with Os in the names) Dock, Lonzo, and Mose. I've always been partial to Laszlo, but my husband would never go for it. Maybe you could convince yours ...

All this Boudicca talk -- now all I can see here is "booty talk" -- thanks, Elizabeth T! ;-) -- is fascinating. As always, I have to ask the pronunciation question. I'm saying Boo-dih-ka. But is it Boo-dee-ka? And where is the stress? First syllable? Second?

Katie -- I like the idea of Boudicca being a forebear to all strong-minded girls. As the mother of a girl, that's particularly resonant for me.

Elizabeth T -- I love that story about the dorms at VA Tech! When I was an undergrad, I had a roommate whose boyfriend's name was Rene. As a freshman, he was placed in the girls' dorm. Doh!

Megan, what about Otis or Otto? I like Laszlo, as Amy3 suggested, a lot as well (well, I also like Arlo, so too bad that's a no-go).

Then there's Soren (to continue the Eastern European theme), Hugo, Oliver, Ivo, Inigo. Still need more?

Catharine, I love the name Catherine too, as does my husband, and he has the name K/Catherine going back a few generations in his family too, but not as far back as your family. I really like Catriona, but I'm not sure about the correct spelling. I've seen the pronunciation for it as Catrina and also as Ca-tri-o-na, the way I had once assumed it was pronounced. My granddaughter is named Catrina, after her mother Catherine.

I have some Scots heritage (Duncan surname, which I gave one of my sons as his middle name: James Duncan) and am interested in Scots names, both Gaelic and other names favored there. In our family we have Andrew (patron saint of Scotland), Robert "Robbie" and Alexander.

I agree: "Bring on the Scots names!"

Correction to my previous post: I really like Catriona, but I'm not sure about the correct *pronunciation*.

How is the name pronounced in Scotland?

For Dolores, the only other suggestion I have is Lora. Natalie and Lora sounds nice to me. People will probably ask her why she spells it that way. Then she can say she's named after her Grandmother.

Megan, as for o-containing names that go with Obediah, how about Solomon? That has three o's. Plus it has lots of syllables, which you seem to like. :)

Hey, Miriam, I guess that means that we're related, what with us both being Kohanim!

I'm just curious whether anyone with any Yiddish knowledge has the same association with the name Hamish as I do.
("Haymish" means "homey" in Yiddish... As in 'as comfortable as the cozy place you dwell', not as in 'Yo yo, where my homies at.')

Another name that I cannot dissociate from its Yiddish homonym is the name Shane which, despite actually being an Irish version of the name John, to me will always mean beautiful/lovely.

But at least those are both very positive associations. There are plenty of names out there with very unfortunate homonyms and associations in other languages - and even more unfotunately, in their own languages. Of course I can't think of any right now, but I know that they're out there!

Oh! My award for the worst name when translated into English is held by a patient of my father's. He is an Indian man whose first name is Dikshit.

singhalaya

all the people are welcome to see the twins.They are so kind for them,anyway the couple has no gossips or any problems about others.
--------------------
Chandani
Knox Leon

Karyn
I know an Indian Dikshit as well. I agree...worst english translated name ever. (Worse even than Lemonjello and Oranjello, who my friend INSISTED she went to high school with. Snopes disagrees and I don't know who to believe!)

Karyn, on your Yiddish cognate theme, there's an NPR newscaster named Korva Coleman, and doesn't that mean something "not so flattering" in Yiddish?

And on other bad English translation names, I know an older Korean gentleman (living in the US) named Suk-bum LN. Korean has lots (and lots) of unfortunate possibilities like this.

Karyn, it's funny, I've always found Hebrew and Irish names to sound quite similar. The first time I heard the name Shoshana I was certain it was Irish, along the lines of Siobhan or Seamus. And I thought Brody was an Irish last name, as well. Could that be why this Irish-American girl married a nice Jewish boy? hmmmm

re Yiddish/Irish cognates- there's also Shifrah (which I noticed in a book by Isaac Bashevis Singer) and Siofra (which means elf or sprite and is a very in-your-face trendy Irish name at the moment). They are, to my knowledge pronounced the same.

Nikki, how old is your friend who went to high school with an Orangejello and Lemonjello? She may have known the twins I knew. (They pronounced it o-RAHNZH-ello and Leh-MAHNZH-ello.)

BTW, if she's your friend, I'm not sure why you wouldn't believe her (especially about something so completely within the realm of the everyday/expected; name creativity knows no bounds :) )

I always associated Scottish names in Australia with "mature" men, and would never think to describe it as a trend or a wave. I'm pretty sure Australians have been heavy on the Scottish (and in certain regions, Welsh) names since the country's founding days, similar to some parts of Canada. Can anyone correct me if this is inaccurate?

Off-topic, but I thought I'd share a passage of note from a "Talk of the Town" in this week's New Yorker:

"The Romantics" is [Galt Niederhoffer's] second novel; her first, "A Taxonomy of Barnacles," has been described by reviewers as a fictionalized chronicle of her experience growing up as the clever, ill-at-ease daughter of the eccentric investor Victor Niederhoffer, who named her for Francis Galton, the Victorian anthropologist and the coiner of the term eugenics. Niederhoffer is thirty-two and is a producer of independent movies as well as a novelist. She lives in a brownstone in Cobble Hill with her partner, Jim Strouse, and their children, Magnolia, three, and Grover, one. Magnolia is named for the West Village bakery where the couple met. "I was a customer, and he was a trusty icer, recently off the turnip truck," Niederhoffer recalled. "I was a brazen New York JAP, and he was a totally oblivious rube from the Midwest. I picked him up. It was a horrible tawdry beginning. He told me his name was Jim and his brother was Tim and I thought, He's really from a different planet."

Galton (nn Galt)! Magnolia! Grover! Jim! Tim!

Katie, I'm sure there are women or girls called Boudicca (or any variants) out there. It seems unlikely that such a notable figure of hisotry/semi-legend would escape parents' notice, especially in the late 20th century, when older assimilationist tendencies died down and creative names were acceptable. Also, Irish nationalism and Celtic pride generally was brought to the forefront of mainstream America's consciousness (what with the overseas escalations of the Troubles, etc.)

I think it's an interestingly "hard" name, with the "d" and the "c" sounds. Much different from the soft, rounded Emmas and Avas and Ellies.

Sarah -- don't have time to read all the posts... did anyone suggest Lorelei for a namesake for Delores?

The Catriona I knew in the UK pronounced her name Ca-TREE-na. For some reason it took me a while to learn to ignore that distracting o!

Sarah-my dd is Natalie so I am biased in liking your name choices. However, i agree that Delores "doesn't really go" with Natalie. They seem like different styles. My first thought was just "plain" Lori. I like Lorelei and others that have been suggested as well. I think I would certainly go with the "or" sound rather than the "D" beginning. There is also Nora to consider.

Re: the NY names
I think Staten is pr STATE-en when I look at it even though I know better. You could get kre8tiv and do Statton, Stattan, etc. which then start to remind me of Stanton, Stratton, etc. Brooklyn doesn't sound strange to me but Bronx is a bit different. If I were to do Britain I would spell it Britton for boy and Britten for girl.

I've also heard of the Lemonjello and Oranjello brothers from a reputable source. She is a pharmacist so is a wealth of name information. She told me once about a Shithead pr=She-TAY-uh.(I think there was an apostrophe in there somewhere but not certain).

Ok, speaking of these urban naming legends, my father has repeatedly told me a story that he helped deliver a baby some 25 years ago (when he was a medical resident) whose mother was a recent immigrant who spoke little English. Supposedly, when a member of the hospital staff asked her if she had given the little girl a name yet, she replied that the hospital had already given her a name--it was on her little wristband. The name? "Female"--which the woman was apparently pronouncing "Fa-molly". I've always doubted this story (my dad has a tendency to very sincerely and in great detail remember things that never happened to him, especially if those things enhance an otherwise boring story). Has anyone else heard a version this naming tale? Is Ms. Female as much of an icon as Lemonjello and poor Mr. Shithead?

Random question: Does anyone know how Cesaria Evora (singer) pronounces her name?

I always imagined the "C" as having an "s" sound, as in a feminine form of the Hispanic name Cesar. But a friend pronounced that first "C" as a "ch" sound. I like it either way, with the syllable accent on the middle syllable.

I'm not seeing it on any of the name sites that I know, but am suddenly transfixed by the name. At least in part for the amazing voice that Evora carries with it...

Hyz, I've heard that story before, only the twin version with Male and Female.

This site discusses most of the urban legends above:

http://www.namenerds.com/uucn/advice/urbanlegends.html

Yeah, I've heard that "Fe-Molly" story countless times, along with variations wherein the benighted mother sees a word like "vagina" or "dilate" or some such on her chart and innocently thinks it would be the perfect name for her little darling. (As "va-GEE-na" and "da-LA-tay," of course. Meanwhile, why aren't there any stories of mothers with hepatitis glancing at their charts and naming their little darlings "Billi Rubin {lastname}?")

hyz, your father sounds like a hoot! I must admit I don't think all of his stories are true... but I bet he's the life of the party!

Meanwhile, following Elizabeth T's advice, I've set up a disposable Gmail account. Coll, or anyone else for that matter, if you wanna talk Slope, email me at Wanna-Talk-Slope@gmail.com. Just delete the two hyphens from the address, or it won't get to me.

Aha, I can answer the Cesaria Evora question--I was a worldbeat DJ in my 20s. The press materials said to say "Seh-ZAHR-yuh EHV-uh-ruh"--there are accent marks over the stressed syllables, which helps. (mind, the press materials sometimes don't give "authentic" pronunciation guides, but the pronunciation they hope DJs will use--it might be simplified or Anglicized, for all kinds of reasons)

And yes, amazing voice, the Barefoot Diva, now see I'm going to have to put on her CD right this minute...

I once heard the story about twins named Male and Female (IIRC pronounced mah-lay and fe-mah-lay respectively) too. I also recall someone commenting that for those who don't like unisex names that those names are about as gender-specific as you can get.

Vivian's mom, I believe that this name is just beautiful. As a lifelong Gone w/the Wind fan, to this day, it always puts a smile on my face.

I'm in my late 20's and grew up knowing 2 little Vivien/Vivan's, but it never seemed like a popular name, even though I new more than one.

Having said this, growing up, I would NEVER have expected names like Isabella or Sophia to be in the top 500 let alone the top 10. They truly seemed to be grandma names. I never liked old fashioned names, but now... I love them.

I agree that Vivian/Vivien/Vivienne has the trend factors that seem to be all the rage, and because of the J-P's, it will reach many ears that would most likely never have considered it before.

In the end though, it's a classic....It has a rich history, very sweet nm possibilities, and a lovely, almost, lyrical flow. And the fact that both parents not only agree on the name, but love it, you can't go wrong.

Apropos of the current discussion of genealogy and yet again Lemonjello and Orangejello surfacing, I offer a clip that I saved from a genealogy newletter a while back..... Love the surname!

7. Humor/Humour: Citrus Genealogy
-------------------------------------------
Thanks to: Dennis Pease in Auckland, New Zealand

The following baptism was found in the parish records of Great Melton,
Norfolk, England:

Lemon and Orange, twins, son and daughter of Lemon PITCHER and Susan,
14 June 1736.

: Previously published in RootsWeb
Review: 11 October 2006, Vol. 9, No. 41.

Re: "Female", "Shithead" etc.

http://www.snopes.com/racial/language/names.asp

Snopes files these name rumours under "racial", although it adds that the jokes are often at the expense of white Southerners too. Some of those stories were included in the first edition of Freakonomics, but withdrawn from the second edition. Snopes says that "Fa-Molly" turned up as a prostitute on Cagney and Lacey, and notes how the usual version rests upon the parents not being able to read properly.

"Shithead" is an old one, Snopes has a long list of supposed mispronunciations of medical terms and unsuitable words (although I've heard the "Shithead" version with several different pronunciations). "Exzema" is the oldest recorded version. Snopes says:

"Was there ever a mother so stupid as to name her kid Exzema without realizing what the name meant? Probably not. But because the story fits in with what's already believed about the shortcomings of whichever group the mother is supposedly part of, the tale will be re-told and believed anew"

I'm sure that by now the stories have become so established that people are telling them without any implied reference to race but merely as an anecdote about stupid/eccentric people, period. I'm certainly not implying that anyone here or their family and acquaintances holds racist attitudes. But these stories still leave a bad taste in my mouth...

Easternbetty, I'm not doubting that you met them, but do you think the twins you knew might have adopted those names upon hearing the story? Or was it a family you knew well? I think it might even have been Laura who blogged a while back about how Oranjello and Lemonjello have a habit of turning up in telephone directories and junk mail listings without making any apearances in birth records.