The Baby Name Wizard

http://www.babynamewizard.com/archives/2004/9/oranjello-and-lemonjello

Ah, this is the post I was thinking of, way back in the archives of 2004! Just about everybody in the comments claims to have known the 'jell-o' twins, Female or Shithead, or to have been told by a trustworthy source.

Interestingly, someone suggests that perhaps, having heard the story, some parents really did decide to grab a slice of the notoriety and name their boys Oranjello and Lemonjello - God knows there are enough people who say they've known them! So, I guess that's possible. Although no proof has ever been made public.

http://www.babynamewizard.com/archives/2007/8/its-a-denis-its-a-pervis-its

A more recent post from Laura about these names. This is the one I was thinking of. The possibility is also discussed of Shithead (ugh, I hate typing that!) turning up as a transliteration of an Arabic name Shaheed. Sounds a lot more likely. The 'jell-o' twins, apparently, do not exist in government records.

Thanks for the Female confirmations. I thought I had heard that one floating around from somewhere other than my dad, but I couldn't remember for sure (maybe I have some of the same memory affliction that he does? The major difference being that *I* generally know when my memory is fuzzy, and when it's not. lol.). I'm assuming that someone told him that story once, 20+ years ago, and through the sands of time, he "remembers" it actually happening to him. He's told it so many times now, I doubt I could convince him that he most likely didn't experience it. Brooklyn Babe--yeah, he's a pretty fun guy, but it runs in the family--out of 9 siblings, he's the tame one.

Hey Lucie la Morena,

I met the students while volunteering in a middle school where my friend was their science teacher. (U.S. midwest). He knew of my interest in names and had told me ahead of time that I should meet "his" twins L&O. This was in '04 and they were 13 or 14 then. I don't know what type of official naming information teachers are given (maybe others here can enlighten), but my friend was given a roster with all of his students' names on it, and that's how he first learned them. The boys also used the names when they were introduced to me; if they used nicknames, they did not indicate so.

I only learned a year or so ago that their names were considered "legends" amongst a certain communities that have limited interaction with multi-ethnic, immigrant, or low-income communities. (Although I do understand and agree that apochryphal tales that seemed to cast negative light on minorities were/are popular with some prejudiced members of the majority). I was quite surprised that their names were considered to be some sort of standard for "naming outrageousness," such that they would be (apparently) widely disbelieved and posted about.

I suppose it seems odd and amusing to me that of all categories, people disbelieve creative names. Human creativity (or at least the pretension to it) knows no bounds, and as this blog is a testament, there are many names FAR more "out there" (and if I may add, less clever :)) than Lemonjello and Orangejello. And, unlike trying to push the laws of physics, say, naming is always the "realm of the possible." It's the easiest thing in the world to slap a name on a kid (I mean mechanically easy, not mentally and emotionally, especially for NEs). We used to laugh in our family that we met a woman named Tufaha, with the last name Khadra, which amounts to Green Apple!

We have celebrity kids named Moon Unit. 'Nuff said.

Alert-- Alert-- Alert!

Stumbled on a site that lists hundreds of names, including: Turkish, Arthurian, ancient Roman, Elizabethan, African, Shakespearean, Japanese, Pictish, Gypsy, Cornish, and on and on.

I am too computerly inept to insert a bar in here, (and hubby can't help as he is blissfully asleep), but you will get the site if you Google "The House of Plumblossom". Then just press "Names".

A tiny sampler: Nolwenn (Breton)

Morverren(Cornish) "maid of the sea
Tregereth (Cornish) "mercy"
Mellyn (Cornish) "yellow-haired"

Aanchal (Indian) "shelter"
Dalaja (Indian) "honey"

Teleza (African, Malawi)
Effiom (African, Nigeria)

Avice (Elizabethan)
Oswyn (Elizabethan)
Fulke ( " )
Parnell ( " )

Jofranka (Gypsy)
Gilderoy (Gypsy)
Vandlo (Gypsy)
Mozol (Gypsy) "black current"

Calybrid (Manx)
Flaunys (Manx)
Affrica/Aurick/Averick (Manx)
Vorgell (Manx) "sea-bright"
Wilmot (Manx) "William"
Gilmartyn (Manx)
Gospatrick (Manx)

Honami (Japanese)
Ren (Japanese) "water lily"

I wish more of the meanings were given, but at least this site has an extremely broad reach. It does things like break the African names down by region and country. Like all on-line name sources, it has its limitations, but what fun to wander among all those languages, regions, and eras, plucking names!

Eo, you are hilarious and helpful. Thanks for your fervant "Alert-Alert-Alert!"

I'm going to check this site out right now (but of course I will, since I have other pressing business).

Where do you think these compliation sites get their names? Published books? Other sites?
Govt' records?

P.S. our naming styles don't always overlap, but in this case, you picked many names that appeal to me. I've always liked Manx and Cornish words, and Cornish names in particular. Trouble is, some of them *sound* "kreatyve" and a bit down-home twangy to the extent that I personally would not use them (for example, Kerenza).

Inneresting number of Saxons mentioned...I know a 19-year-old Saxon, who has a 16-year-old sister named either Emma or Emily. I also saw "Saxxon" printed above a kindergarten coathook two years ago or so.

more -o names: Ianto. I've been indulging in the BBC sci-fi Torchwood, which is set in Cardiff and always has interesting names (if not on the characters, then in the credits). Ianto is a welsh take on John, sounding like YAN-toe in my accent, and a little more like ee-AHN-toh if you're properly Welsh.

Sometimes I believe there are a good many more NEs out there than even we believe. Take, for example, the Saxony I knew.

We lived in a small Southern (U.S.) town, with very little ethnic and cultural diversity (my family was it). The town's population skewed toward lower-income, lower-middle class, and few residents had graduate degrees. I imagine more than a few parents did not have undergraduate degrees, either.

She had an Anglo surname that was familiar and undistinctive but not overly-common (think Jeffries, Kent, Banks). She was a few years ahead of me in school; she would be in her early thirties now. I never met her, only saw her and read about her in school announcements and such (she was active in many clubs). I remember thinking, at age thirteen or so, "Why did they name her that? Are they historians? Are they expressing a branch of their ethnicity? Either way, they had to know her name would be almost outlandish in a town like ours. Could her parents be...like me?"

Those Saxons and Saxonys interest me more than the new ones cropping up in comparitive lit professors' households in the late 2000s.

Speaking of "fruity" names, many years ago when I was in college I had a summer job as an assistant at the local library. (I spent so much time there when I was a young school girl, eventually when I was old enough to get working papers, they started to pay me.) Anyhow, I never forget a quartet of little siblings who were regulars at story time, the Apple children: Jonathan, Baldwin, McIntosh, and their l'il sis Snow. Fortunately for Snow, that was many years before Granny Smiths hit American produce aisles.

Patricia,

Catriona is properly pronounced (in Scotland, at least) as "ca-TREE-uh-na," with the "uh" syllable almost completely swallowed. So it often sounds like "ca-TREE-na" if you say it fast. A friend of mine at uni who was named Catriona admitted it was tough for other folks to get the pronunciation completely correct! She was fine if people called her "ca-TREE-na," since it was close enough.

Ianto is a nickname for Evan in Wales. You may also like Iolo (pr. Yo-Lo, nickname for Iowerth, the Welsh name used as an equivalent for Edward).

Re: Welsh male names- I've always liked Iestyn... hmmm, wonder if it relates to Justin?

I was just reading a short story about a 15 year old girl named Evan, and, as usual, having an inner dialogue about how likely that would be, when the author disclosed that it was short for Evangeline. I thought that was an interesting idea- to have a Frilliana-type name that is shortened to a more androgynous one. Guess that is already the case with Charlotte/Charlie, Georgia/Georgie, Josephine/Joey, etc. It might be a way of pleasing parents with different naming aesthetics.

Yes, Iestyn is used as the Welsh equivalent of Justin.

Is Virginia a useable name or is it too old/Southern

It's an old family name

Good question, Easternbetty. I think some of the sites are carefully researched, and some seem to accept almost anything without verification. The "Plumblossom" guy seems to have a variety of sources.

Yes, some of the Cornish names do have that flavor, don't they. I wonder if the other spelling, "Kerenza" with a "z" seems any more authentic? I've liked that, and also "Demelza" of course, which suffers from the same almost "fantasy" look and sound.

But the Celtic names that have always appealed to me most tend to be harder, less frothy, ( Olwen, Glynis, Endellion, etc.) and often end with that newly controversial "en" sound!

Guest A-- I think if "Virginia" appeals to you it is a perfectly handsome traditional name. Has some appealing nicknames: Ginny, Djinny, Ginger, Jinks, Jinx, etc.

Just a quick update, because I am too smitten to be away from my sweet girl for too long

We had our third daughter on Wednesday evening, in what had to be one of the easiest labors. Really a lovely experience.

She was Vivian from the moment we saw her.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3171/2683980106_1298927ee8.jpg

Thank you so much for everyone that took the time to comment. I read and considered each post and I know we will not regret the choice.

-j

What a beauty! She's a lovely little girl with a name to match. She'll be proud to have it.

Oh, she's Vivian all right. And she's insanely adorable. She already looks quite contented with her name, or maybe just life in general.

Someday, years from now, you'll tell her this whole meshuggena story about how you nearly changed your mind about naming her Vivian because of Angelina Jolie, and she'll say, "Who? Whoever that is, I'm glad you didn't pay any attention to whatever she was doing."

j- Ohhh, she is lovely! Welcome Vivian!

Vivian is lovely, as is her name. I'm so glad you stayed with your original name choice. It's neat that you said she just looked like a Vivian from the start. I debated my daughter's name right up to the drive to the hospital, but once she was born, she just WAS my Felicity.

Again, congratulations!

Vivian's Mom- what a sweet little girl-congratulations! So glad you decided to stay with Vivian. Welcome!

Love her expression! Congrats on an intelligent, gorgeous baby...

I was just checking back to see if little Vivian had arrived and whether she was indeed Vivian. :) Congratulations on your beautiful little girl with the beautiful name!

Guest A -- I think Virginia is a perfectly good name!

Ohhhh, I so rarely have time to check this blog now that my baby's a toddler and I've gone back to work! But I made myself plow through ALL the comments before saying "Yes, Vivian," and it was quite a happy ending to see the actual Vivian. Congratulations to her mom!

Then the bits and pieces in my head after I read some 250 comments after my last one:

1) I was so excited to be hailed as the board's 19th century Americanist after being duly impressed (and daunted) by the Anglo-Saxonists, Medievalists, philologists, and what have you. What a brainy board. So for what it's worth YES Eva in Uncle Tom's Cabin was an Evangeline. Part of her symbolization as a feminized Christ child. I could go on and on but I won't.

2) YES, Nabokov named his main character Dolores to connote sorrow ("dolorous"). Her name is actually Dolores Haze, which connotes the state of miserable confusion (haziness) she lives in as 1) a product of and slave to the popular culture Humbert Humbert disdains and 2) his more-or-less sex slave. But also, Humbert sees HER through the haze of his own self-involvement and narcissistic wounds. Nabokov, James, Dickens, and J.K. Rowling (as has been discussed here) are the place to go for amazingly rich connotations in characters' names.

3) This board definitely hashed over the mythic "ignoramus" names a while back. Nobody WITH THOSE NAMES ever, ever shows up in person or names one of those as a direct relative. It's always "my cousin's sister-in-law who knows a nurse" or "my gynecologist told me" or whatever. I'm sure the whole thing is the health profession's joke on gullible patients.

Wow, thanks so much for coming back so soon to update us, Vivian's mom! I'm glad you asked our opinions--not because I think so very much of my opinion, mind you, but because I think nothing is more helpful than hearing how others may perceive a name. Once you've established the "worst" that could be assoicated with a name (over-popularity, unfortunate nicknames, notorious namessakes), you can then feel free to use it.

And now you can rest easy that Vivian has been vetted! She has emerged from the BNW gauntlet an even more attractive and appropriate name for your (remarkably attractive and at peace) baby. I'm sure she will wear it well.

Vivian is gorgeous! I'm so glad you named her that. It suits her. What is her middle name, if you don't mind disclosing?

I like Virginia. I have long loved Georgia, which I consider to be similar in style, and I recently noticed that Georgia is very popular in UK and Australia. I expect it will become more popular in the US as well. I see Virginia as up and coming, in the same vein.

Amy3, I think I just fell in love with Laszlo. I ran in and woke up my husband to see if he liked it too. He was not thrilled, but he just needs time! You have a daughter Astrid, correct? That is my top girl name. I think I like your style. ;-) What is your Astrid's middle name?

I'm a lurker, but I've enjoyed reading everyone's well thought out posts. I would love to get some feedback/ideas for boy names.

We want to name him for our fathers, Stanley and Jay. Stanley is too much as a first name, but I like it as a middle name. Jay is just boring to me, so we're looking for other "J" names. One issue with that is the last name sounds like "Rosen", so names that end in "an", "en" and "on" might be too alliterative. I have a feeling I'm not going to get great feedback on the one I'm currently leaning towards, but I'd love to hear feedback.

Current top pick: Jed Stanley sounds like "Rosen"

Other possibility: Jules Stanley sounds like "Rosen" (Although I really prefer Julian, but there's the "an" issue. Do any of you think because it's 3 syllables rather that 2 (like the last name) it sound okay?)

Vivian is truly darling!!! Well done.

AMA-I happen to really love Jay. I think it's handsome and snappy.
I also like Jules, but I much prefer Julian, and I think it's just fine with your ln.
I think Jed has a certain appeal, but I think for most people it's a name wedded to a certain kind of southern swagger, kwim?

On Virginia-It's a name that has come up several times recently, and it does seem due for a comeback.
I spent ten years teaching junior high school, so it's one of a few I'd avoid, knowing the very particular, sexually loaded teasing that a Virginia would have to endure during those years. I had a friend in college named Virginia (she always went by Ginny), and she really felt that her name was a tough cross to bear.
That's just my take on it though.

Vivian's mom-She is absolutely gorgeous! I think you made a wonderful choice, and I so appreciate you sharing with us! Best wishes to you and your growing family.

Re: Blix

From "Another Amy": ... the Baron Bror von Blixen, a Swedish settler in Kenya whose wife (or ex-wife) wrote Out of Africa. He was known as Blix.

- This would be Karen Blixen, who also used the pseudonym Isak Dinesen.

Blix is not a Scandinavian first name.

Hello again!
More news from my name-challenged friend with the quads; you may all sigh in relief--Codex is out as a name. :)

The baby names are: Ivory, Ebony, Harmony and Hendrix.

I like the girls names but...all together they seem like a bit much to me. I`ll let you decide. (But aren`t you glad baby boy is a Hendrix instead of Codex!)

AMA- I think Jed Stanley "Rosen" sounds great, and gets a big thubmbs-up from me. I'm not a fan of either Jules or Julian as I prefer harder consonant sounds in boy names. That being said, I think Julian "Rosen" flows better than Jules "Rosen" as the /n/ sounds are less cumbersome to me than the multiple /s/ sounds. Good luck whichever you decide!

Eimi- well, I'm glad Codex is out, but wow, those four names together... it's waaay over-the-top too much for me. I'm not a fan of thematic names as it is.

I know a set of quintuplets whose names (I can't recall 3 of the middles) are:
Joseph Michael
Lilianne Mary
Jacob
Jenna
Mikayla

Mom knew there were 2 of each but the 5th was hiding, so she had 3 boy and 3 girl names, just in case. When they were born, she was very out of it, so she told the nurses (each baby had his/her own) to decide from her list of names who was whom, and that's how they each got their individual name. lol

Eimi: Does your friend know that Stevie Wonder song "Ebony and Ivory?"

"Ebony and Ivory
live together in perfect harmony
side by side on my piano
keyboard, oh lord, why don't we?"

I would never be able to get past that and take their names entirely seriously. They are all pretty names individually (although I'm not entirely sold on Harmony), but together it's a bit much for me. Also, she still has the problem of all three girls having the same syllables and ending sound, which makes them very matchy. But, perhaps she doesn't mind that...

I'm coming late to the discussion (just discovered the BNW website, though I used the book to name my second son), but I love this story about VA Tech. It reminded me of a friend of mine at Texas A&M who lived in a non-air dorm in the center of campus. He had a first floor room, and he used to call out his window during busy times on campus - he'd yell common girls' names and wave at whoever answered like he knew them, then strike up a conversation. I was astounded by how many friends he had named Michelle and Amy (this would have been 1989-90.) :)

Glad to get one vote for Jed.

Re "I think Jed has a certain appeal, but I think for most people it's a name wedded to a certain kind of southern swagger, kwim?"

What about Jed Barlett, the pres from New Hampshire on The West Wing?

"I think Julian "Rosen" flows better than Jules "Rosen" as the /n/ sounds are less cumbersome to me than the multiple /s/ sounds."

Ah, didn't think of that when I used "Rosen" as an example. Actual last name does not have an "s". It's a 2 syllable name that ends with "en". (Not hard to guess, oh well.)

To AMA:

I like Jed Stanley "Rosen" and Julian Rosen (I agree w/ Trish re: the repeated /s/ being harder than the repeated /n/.) If Julian is your favorite, I think you should go with that. However, I LOVE Jed - it's out for us b/c we have good friends with a Jedidiah (goes by Jed in the family), but would have definitely considered it otherwise.

Jed Bartlett was short for Josiah Bartlett (I LOVED TWW), another J name I love (but dh doesn't care for it b/c of a former acquaintance...)

Vivian's mom - congratulations! I've been following the Vivian name saga throughout these posts, and was so hoping you stuck with the name you loved. She's a beautiful little girl!

YAY! Another vote for Jed! Maybe it's one of those names that you shouldn't tell about beforehand, because people who don't like it will be vocal about it. Usually people won't comment negatively once the baby's born. But I am curious about the negative associations, so I'm glad to get feedback here, rather than IRL, F2F. Thanks!

To me, Jed sounds solid and strong. Not too teasable.

BTW, in addition to just finding "Jay" blah, I have an important ex named Jay. Exes names are automatically ruled out. Although, I do like Jay as a middle name for a girl. I used to work with a woman whose first name was Jae. I like that spelling, too.

Also, Jed Stanley will be an northeastern, urban child.

Jed is a little too nicknamy to me (I've got one of those names, and it was jarring to see on diplomas and all that). Maybe Jared for long?

The Jays I know are short for James and John--I know those are probably too tame for many parents today.

I like Jules, though, and Julian also--and I don't think the -an ending will be too much with Xoxen surname, because of the three syllables.

I like Jed. DH says it reminds him of the beverly hills though.

Yes, I knew who Karen Blixen was, and I knew Blix was his last name, not his first. But its a connection to a name that I think is kind of cool, and in a world of last name first, seems reasonable.

Vivian's mom-Congrats on the lovely new addition! I think Vivian fits her. Thanks for keeping us up to date.

AMA-I don't care for Jed. I think it sounds too much like the Clampett's on Beverly Hillbillies especially for a Northeatern urban kid. But please it's YOUR kid do what you think is right as Vivian's mom did. If you really need a suggestion, I would vote for Julian. Even if your ln is Rowan or Roland or Nolan or whatever the "an" sound is okay to be repeated to me. Jules just doesn't work for me. Additionally, other J names would be: Jason, Jaystan(made up version of Justin),Justin itself, or James.

Re quads: I think those are very matchy names and not at all my style. Hendrix IMO is only slightly better than Codex. I still would not consider naming my child after Jimi Hendrix OR anything related to Codex. However, your friend seems to want to have "different" names. How about Harlow, Ivy, Evander, and Calyx? It seems we've recently been discussing names like this and they have been well received.

Vivian's Mom: Congratulations. She is BEAUTIFUL. I'm so glad she is happily named Vivian.

AMA: I am one of those people who thinks Jed is a little twain-y. But then, that isn't a deal-breaker, or it wouldn't be for me necessarily. On the other hand, I LOVE Jules. It is so much more unexpected than Julian, but just as classic sounding. It is also jauntier. And it doesn't fall into the ending in "-en" category that seems to encompass half of all boys names these days. (Although it is distinct from many of those because of its three syllables.)

That is, Julian is distinct from the many ends in "-en" boy names because most are two-syllable names whereas Julian is a three-syllable name. Right. That's a bit clearer.

New baby alert! My wonderful cousin just gave birth this morning to:

Sally Rohan LN

Rohan is pronounced like Rowan (or Ro-an). She was named for my cousin's husband's late grandmother, Sally Rohan, who helped them get on their feet when they first moved to their current city. I have to say, I love this name. I like it best of all my other cousins' babies' names--and there are a lot: Siena, Samara, Trevor, Zachary, Benjamin, Samuel, Joshua, Madelyn, and Riley (a boy). And a lot of my cousins don't even have kids!

AMA, I'm in the "no" camp on Jed. Just not my style. I like Jules a lot, as well as Julian, and think either would most likely work with your probably last name(s). What about Jasper, as another option?

I think the mom of the quads just does not share name taste with the people on this board. We should probably rejoice at the successful suppression of Codex and leave it at that.

AMA-- I'm not clear on whether the formal name "Jedediah" would be given, wi†h Jed as the nick name? Under those circumstances, I like it, and traditionally, Jed has been THE short form of Jedediah.

I do agree it's a mistake to give just a nick name as a full name. It's too limiting. Apart from Jedediah, another way to get to "Jed" would be through initials, i.e. if he were named "Jonathan Edward Dorrance Rosen" or something like that.

"Jed" can also be short for "Gerard", or "Jared" as Sister Melinda said.

Associations with "The Beverly Hillbillies" will become even more tenuous as time goes on, and I wouldn't let it concern me. Besides, that particular "Jed" was a stand-up guy!