The Baby Name Wizard

Easternbetty, yes, I know we've discussed that here in the past--was it one of CKE's assertions? Or was he saying that it's not actually as prevalent a trend as people tend to think? My memory is fuzzy at this point....

Shirley,

My suggestion would be Elizabeth, though maybe it's one of those "z" names you've already considered and eliminated. I like the idea of Susannah, Isabelle and Elizabeth (Anna, Belle and Beth :)).

Otherwise I like the Ros- suggestions and would add Rosalind.

Also:
Clementine (LOVE this name)
Esme
Lucille
Jocelyn
Josephine
Veronica

Good luck!

Shirley-

How about Rosetta or Rozetta?

Easternbetty, I really don't think that has been established. The Freakanomics guys claimed it's true, but they ignored tons of research showing otherwise. (Pet peeve, they never acknowledge that anybody else has researched anything before them!) Besides, the "masses" seem to get their names from reality TV these days! :-)

Apropos of our discussion recently (but in another comments thread) about "fake" names. This is only sort of related, but I'm guessing some NEs may find it humorous.

Does anyone remember that SNL skit with Nicolas Cage where he and his wife are trying to think of names for their new baby? She suggests all manner of names, he rejects them based on their teasing potential. The one I remember is her suggestion of Peter. He responds with a reference to Peter, Paul and Mary.

But then he gets a delivery of some sort and the person asks for Asswipe Johnson. He defensively corrects the pronunciation, "It's ass-WEE-pay." Hilarious!

"hyz, hasn't it been established that names in the U.S. start at the so-called "top" of the socio-economic ladder and then trickle "down" to the masses? The famous examples are Crystal, Tiffany, and Courtney; I just can't remember where I've read this."

I think there's definitely a trickle-down effect to some degree, but based on everything I've ever seen and heard, names like Crystal and Tiffany were never, ever at the top of the socio-economic ladder. Courtney, yes, in my memory appears to have had a little bump mid-60s to mid-70s in that group; it may be a little "common" for the upper crust now that it has in fact trickled down.

The very rich (excluding those who made their money in the entertainment industry) generally seem to like more traditionalist or ancestral names. The ultimate example of this would be seen in royal families. Perhaps it's even the same type of motivation: "This offspring will carry on our dynasty."

Does anyone know why the name Carter became popular in the Plains/Midwest initially?

It seems to have first popped up to the top 100 in South Dakota in 1995. Within the next few years it had spread to Montana, ND, MN, IA, WY, NE, UT, and WI.

In 2000, it was #15 in SD and only in the top 100 in VT, WI, UT, NE, IA, MN, and both Dakotas. Is there someone with the name Carter specifically appealing to South Dakotans?

Oddly*, the name really *exploded* in 2001 and has been semi-popular every where (except for the Southwest and the tri-state area) since then.

*Not odd because of the name itself, which I love. I just can't remember what/who would cause it to become SO popular in a year or less.

To be honest I always assumed Jillian came before Jill. And that Jill was just short for Jillian. Like Lil/Lilly and Lillian.
Or did that actually happen the other way around as well?
How about Milly and Millicent?

Here's the Freakonomics trickle down theory for what it's worth:

http://www.slate.com/id/2116505/

This doesn't answer your question at all, but I have noticed that states with small populations often have unexpected names highly ranked. It doesn't take that many births to bump a name up in SD. Could be the effect of one cool Carter at one highschool in the 70's, or one segment on the local news. I wouldn't be surprised, though, if there were a more legit reason!

Also, 'Sophie' is Madeleine Wickham's middle name, and 'Kinsella' is her mom's maiden name, so it really isn't so much a "created" pen name at all.
In my family the tradition is to give the mother's maiden (or last) name as the child's middle name, so if I used that system, I would be the same name twice!

Amy3-
Yes! I remember that SNL sketch. In fact, when my husband and I are picking on each other we will sometimes call each other ahs-WEE-pay. It will always make us laugh. Excellent recall by the way...I never would have remembered it was Nicolas Cage in that one!

Shirley-
I know a girl named Roselle, which is a really beautiful name. I think that would sound great with your Susanna and Isabella!

Sorry Shirley, that should have read Susannah and Isabelle....

Shirley

Southern with a z? How about Azalia!
My favorite suggested so far is Josephine, I know a little Josie.

I don't know if this will make a difference, but Rosetta is one of Tinkerbell's friends. It looks like Disney is working on Tinkerbell and the Fairies as their next big thing for girls.

I am an Olivia born in 1975 and my mom got my name from the Waltons. I didn't meet another Olivia until I was in my late twenties and now they are everywhere.

My children are Anneliese and Sterling, so I am partial to the Anneliese suggestion made earlier!

We have another baby due in two weeks and can't decide on a name. What boy's name will compliment Anneliese and Sterling? We love traditional- Henry, Edward, James, but are they too plain? And what about Roland or Hugo? Too out there? I worry that Sterling is a bit pretentious already...

Thank you for the help.

(But if anyone want to suggest why Megan took off, I'm all ears.)

Megan W. - The heroine of the best seller book, The Thornbirds (Colleen Mcullough, 1977) was named Megan, nicknamed Meggie. Then the mini-series followed in 1983.

The young actress Megan Ryan starred in the soap 'As The World Turns' in 1982-84.

You didn't mention your age....? The name enjoyed a sharp rise from the 70s through the 90s, reaching 10th on the chart but has been sliding in the past decade.

Can't think any other effect but someone else might suggest something.

oly -- Congratulations on baby #3! I happen to think Henry, Edward, and James are all terrific names. I'd vote for any of those (with a slight edge to James here), and think they complement your other kids' names.

I also like Hugo (I don't care for Roland, though), but I prefer the previous three in this case.

Hmm, where to go from Anneliese and Sterling, that's traditional but not too normal or pretentious or out there... that's a real challenge, lol. I think if you want it to go with the others, especially looking for another boy name to match Sterling, it has to be something with some flair to it. I don't think it HAS to go with, and I love Henry, Edward, and James, but IF you want it to go with, I think those probably are too plain. Hugo and Roland might work, and I know they have fans here, but I don't personally dig them. What about something like... Alastair, Tobias, Piers/Pierce, Graham, Donovan, Duncan, Barrett, Beckett, Tristan, Holden, Jasper, Heath, Thatcher, Lachlan, Dominic, Victor, Finlay, Ivo...

I tried to find things that were familiar but different, and either had a English/UK sound to them (thinking of the pound sterling), or more continental sound (like Anneliese), or LN first sound (Sterling as LN).

Oly,
The boy names on your short list are nice. How about James Edward? I teach Music and see 100+ children every day. James would be distinctive among a group of Cadens, Bradens, Carters, and Trentons. I prefer first and middle names together for this one.
I am having a third child (girl) in Dec. Our girl names in the running are currently Daphne or Phoebe. Any thoughts out there? Our first 2 kids are now 14 and 16, so we're not really going for anything that matches the siblings.

Oly,

I think that the classic traditional boys names like James and Edward are fantastic, but I agree that they might be too plain next to Sterling. You're definitely having a boy? I'll throw out some suggestions with Nymbler's help:
Lincoln
Forrest
Graham
Stefan
Malcolm
Quentin
Schuyler
Grant
Jasper
Louis
Leo
Hugh

Out of that list, I think Lincoln, Graham, and Schuyler sound best with Anneliese and Sterling. I particularly love Lincoln.

I know an Anneliese whose siblings are William and Nicoline, if that gives you any inspiration - though I think Sterling would not fit in with that particular sibling group, so maybe not.

Shirley -

I think Jillian's an adorable name, but if you want to continue the flowy Southern belle vibe your older girls have going on, Julianne or Juliette might be a better choice. By no means, though, would Jillian look out of place within the sibling set. Is Jillian your preferred spelling, or would Gillian seem more of an antique revival to you? For some reason, it strikes me as older, though now we see that's not true.

I always wished my name were Jillian! It's so much fancier and longer than just plain Jill. I never thought to just start introducing myself as Jillian...

re Carter: for me, Carter falls into the 'frontier' name subset, which tend to be popular in the midwest. In fact, I know a family with 4 boys: Carter, Carson, Cody, and Cooper. And one girl: Amy.

New babies alert: Hudson, Carsten, and Carson. Hm.

I always assumed Carter took off due to the tv show ER. In 1994, Carter was ranked 421 on the list.

ER started Fall 1994, in 1995, Carter jumped to 287 and has continued it's climb. He left the show in 2005, so there has been continual exposure for 11 years on one of the top rated shows in the US.

As a surname turned first name, it was a prime choice to rise in the late 1990's...

oly -- Love the suggestion of Lincoln for a sib for Annaliese and Sterling. of your 3 names, I would choose Edward, but think something more unusual is called for...

Guest -- I prefer Phoebe over Daphne.

oly -- Although I still maintain that James would be a fine name with Anneliese and Sterling, if you're looking for something less traditional, Lincoln would be a good bet.

Marjorie - I'm a 1970 Megan, right at the very beginning of the curve. My parents were in advertising and fashion - I'm assuming that since they were always on the lookout for the next big thing, they found it. They didn't hit quite as well with my brother Grant Evan, but both those names had big surges after he was born as well.

How is it that "Carter" and "Madison" escape being stamped "Presidential"? Clinton, a name I would have considered prior to the president seems too political to me. Likewise Reagan. (Though some feel otherwise). Certainly Nixon (which soundwise, would be a lovely name, if it didn't have so much baggage).

oly -- Just checked BNW. Here are Laura's suggestions for brothers for your current kids.

Anneliese (spelled Annalise in BNW): Andreas, Sebastian, Julian, Gunnar, Markus

Sterling: August, Maximilian, Emerson, Forest, Merit

My husband's name is Morgan - he was born in the mid 70's and it was something his mother liked as a masculine/traditional-sounding name. Of course, the fact that starting in the 80's, Morgan became such a popular name for girls *must* be due to Morgan Fairchild's popularity. The celebrity factor at work! Same thing today, little girls being named "Cameron" (similar to Morgan, it was always a boys name) inspired by Cameron Diaz.

Oly, I adore the name Roland. Have you read A.S. Byatt's Possession? The male protagonist in the contemporary set part of the novel is Roland. I think it's a strong but beautiful boys name, which is a difficult combination to find.

I also think Edward goes very nicely with Anneliese and Sterling and is a little less expected than James. You also have some great nickname options, like Ned or Teddy. I forget, did you have George on your short list as well? That I like very much.

As far as others' suggestions, I think Jasper and Alistair are great names, though Alistair might share a few too many sounds with the other kids' names.

Best of luck choosing!

Some off-topic, random thoughts....
Since Carson was brought up, I know someone who had a baby girl Carson in 2004. It just doesn't seem to cross over for me. I know the "son" ending has come up before in these posts and I think that's why. But, I'm just really into feminine names.

Thinking of her made made me think of her older sister, Caroline which is to me a very feminine name. And that lead me think of sibling sets that don't "go" which has also come up before.

I often chat on a forum on another baby website where people's signatures include their children's names/ages. (Oh the names I've seen.) One mama has two girls and the younger one has 3 very feminine names and the older girl has 2 gender neutral names. It almost seemed unfair to the girl with only 2 gender neutral names...I guess that only bothers NEs!! But it made me want to ask her why she chose the names she chose. If she'd done the Gender Neutral FN/Feminine MN combo for both, then they'd match so much better. But, I'm overly obsessed with having "fair" names for siblings which was another topic that's come up before. I'm not even pg with #2 yet (or trying) but I worry I'll never find another name combo I love as much as my #1!

AND, I love all the suggestions for Oly & Shirley. Everybody's on their game! My vote: Grant or Bennett for Oly. They both seem "crisp" like Sterling and Rosalyn or Josaphine for Shirley, besides Rosie and Josie are both too cute.

Thanks CB and Jill C. for all the interesting thoughts on Carter. Wendy, I think you're right about the reason for it's recent widespread popularity. I was never a fan of ER, so no wonder I was puzzled!

Megan W., Carter definitely rings as presidential IMO. And Reagan is so political, that if I meet one I immediately think "Republican parents".

Guest, Daphne reminds me of the best friend of one of the characters on the TV show "Queer as Folk". I always liked her, so that name has good associations for me.

I don't know if this makes any difference to you but in Britain Graham would not be a name I would associate with Anneliese or Sterling. Though I've seen it mentioned a few times around the threads as up and coming in Britain it's deffinately becoming dated. Sort of a male Tracy.
However I totally appreciate that your child is probably more likely to be judged by American standards, I just felt like passing on the information.

Personally I like Tristan but I think Henry or James would work fine as well.

Oly - To my highly untrained ears, Edmund sounds better with Sterling than Edward. However, I have a passionate, irrational love for the name Edmund!

CB: I second the thought of using Edmund to go with Sterling!

Easternbetty: The trickle-down naming theory was explained in Beyond Jennifer and Jason, using the specific examples of Tiffany and Crystal, so I'm guessing that's what you are remembering.

SusieQ and Claire: Thanks for the info on Sophie Kinsella. I don't know where I got the idea that she was much older... could I be thinking of another author, I wonder?

Shirley: I also like Juliet (my daughter's name) or possibly Scarlet? There is also Zoe, if you love the "z" sound.

ET: I want to say that Lillian is just an embellishment of Lily, but I may be wrong.

Easternbetty: Actually, the trickle-down theory was explained along side the notion that names like Tiffany and Crystal would always be low-class because they are named after expensive things... and rich people don't name their children after expensive things, but people with lower incomes do. So that might explain the discordance between the trickle-down theory (which may or may not be true) and names like Tiffany and Crystal feeling as though they could never have been at the top of the socio-economic ladder.
Again, that's the authors of Beyond Jennifer and Jason...

I love all of the suggestions! I can't wait to go over them with my husband.

ET- my husband is English, and he has absolutely refused to use Graham and a few other names. And we do split our time between the US, UK and Spain, so the names must travel well, ie: no Kevin.

Amy- I do love the name Emerson, and it happens to be my uncle's name. But I'm worried it is too Formula 1 to have an Emerson and Sterling.

Family I just found, I think these parents really love Y and Z:

Zoie Zennia
Margarette Zailynn Grace
Xander Lyal Dalane
Zailee Avylon Lillyann

It does make me wonder why the boy isn't Zander.

"To be honest I always assumed Jillian came before Jill. And that Jill was just short for Jillian. Like Lil/Lilly and Lillian.
Or did that actually happen the other way around as well?
How about Milly and Millicent?"

The original form is Gillian with a short form Gill. In the 15th century Second Shepherds' Play by the Wakefield Master, the wife of the trickster Mak is named Gill. BTW the shepherds are named Gib, Coll and Daw. Gillian is supposedly derived from Julian (as in the 15th century mystic Julian of Norwich). The J spelling is rather later than the G spelling.

Millicent is derived from Melisande which was the name of one of the queens of the Crusader Kingdom of Jerusalem. Milly is the short form.

Re Carter, I was out doing errands today, and while I was out, I had lunch at a family style restaurant. Seated near me was a toddler who was intent on doing exactly the opposite of what his father required of him, and hence his name got called--a lot. He was a little Carter.

Re plainness of names, in my old-fashioned, traditionalist opinion no name can be too plain. However, in my view it is entirely possible for a name to be too fussy, frilly, pretentious, and otherwise out there. I don't think you can go wrong with the old favorites like James, Henry, John, Edward, Thomas, William, etc. There are certainly lots of other good names out there, but there are also names which will turn out to be regrettable for one reason or other.

Poker dude birth announcement--Henry Jude--old stalwart Henry paired with rather less common but still historically established Jude. Good job, IMO.

I know a little Sterling who has a brother named Bishop - I think both are family surnames.

Colleen,

The Thorn Birds' Meggie is actually a Meghann, if I remember correctly.

This is TOTALLY off-topic. But Miriam, could you explain to function of the character Hickscorner in the play of the same name? Does he represent some sort of vice? I vaguely remember reading the play and feeling like I was totally missing something. Medieval lit is not my strong suit.

OK. Back on topic.

Shirley: I like the name Rosalind with Susannah and Isabelle.

Oly: I know a little boy named St3rl3n (spelled just that way--well, with e's instead of 3's) whose sister is P3yton. And I think that they both might be named after prominent sports figures. I personally like Jasper or Henry with Sterling and Anneliese.

I am looking for names for a friend. She has inspirations of Jillian, Amelie, Rose, Truman, Julian. Her last name begins with a Z and sounds kind of like Uneeda. (I made that up)

Any ideas?

O and I think Henry or Bennett goes very nicely with Sterling.

I think I may have read something somewhere that talked about Donald Trump having named his daughter Tiffany. However, she was born in the early 90s, after the name had had its biggest heyday. Trump, although not of a long lineage of "old money," had wealthy real estate developer parents, from what I understand, so he might be far enough removed from plebian origins to be counted as "upper class."

All of the names of his children are interesting, actually. Unless it is a family name, Baron is another "aspirational" type of name. It's interesting that a man who had wealthy parents and who himself became even wealthier would gravitate towards an aristocratic title (the only thing higher than being an American real estate mogul, I suppose). I would imagine this type of name would be more appealing to the type of boot-strap millionaire who came to this country as a taxi-driving immigrant and worked his way up.

Sterling and Anneliese: very nice names, and I agree that you should go with something slightly to the left of Michael, James, Edward, etc. Henry might be okay, though. I'm just concerned that as the kids are growing up, there becomes some sort of issue as to why little James or Matthew is the third one in his class, whilst his brother and sister are identifiable by first name alone. (He might either long for a name like theirs, or they for his).

For a child in the U.S., I agree Edmund, Graham, and Jasper work and sound very well with the other two names.

Miriam, do you think your affinity for a certain type of name might be connected to your work (being immersed in similar names of historical figures?) I know that familiarity absolutely makes my heart grow fonder. When I was doing my graduate thesis, I was working with certain (living!) groups of people, and grew to really like names common to their group, if only because I read and heard them enough to come to like them.

New baby alerts:

Julian Lily LN. This is the first girl I've heard of named Julian--I would assume for Julian of Norwich, but the parents are Jewish (and not literary critics or historians of the Medieval period or any other) so that seems unlikely. Any guesses as to why they chose this name? Not sure if their pronouncing it the traditional Julian or more like Julie-Ann.

Another name announced at my husband's work place:

Zara Alisha Rihanna LN

* should read they're (blush)

The female main character in the novel "The Children of Men" by PD James is Julian. (In the movie of the same name, they rearrange character names among other drastic changes, so Julian isn't the same person there.) When someone asks the character if she's called "Julie," she replied with a puzzled, "No, why should I be?"

Thanks for all the great name suggestions to go with Susannah & Isabelle. Thanks to all the help, I'm finding a lot of names that seem to fit with Susannah & Isabelle, but may not like some of them individually as much on their own. But with pregnancy hormones that can change daily so it's good to have options!

I like all the Rose variations. We had Rosalyn on our list the last time around. I love how it can be pronounced (Roz-a-lyn), but when I look at it, it reads (Rose-a-lyn) to me which mades me think Spanish and not where I wanted to go. I wonder if we'd have a hard time getting people to pronounce it correctly. I had never heard of Roselle before. I think that is very pretty, but want something that ends differently than Isabelle. I also like Rose, but that seems short compared to the other two names so maybe it would work for a middle name. I was thinking Jillian Rose or Jillian Rosemarie would be nice if we didn't find something with a z sound we liked better.

Katie: I do think the Gillian spelling does give the name is bit more of the antique style to fit with the other girls' names better, but I wasn't sure if it would be constantly assumed to be spelled with a J and would rather skip the confusion. I checked Laura's name voyager and it looks like spelling it with a J is more common. My husband is a fan of Gillian Anderson though so maybe he'd push for that version. It's not like people typically spell our first two names correctly anyway! I also love the name Juliet. I was stuck on that name until recently when I got more of a preference for Jillian, but I definately haven't ruled it out!

Hubby isn't wanting to get the girls name narrowed down too bad yet so everything is still up to us finding something to agree on. I'll post back on this thread around the first week of September and let you guys know what we pick. I'm really curious to see where we end up.

oly: congrats on the baby! I thought there was a lot of great suggestions and think something a step off of traditional would fit well with the names you already have. From your list, I like Edward. Did you also consider Edmund? That seems more British to go with Sterling to me. I also liked the suggestions of Graham & Grant. I thought having a one syllable name after a 3 and a 2 sounded nice all together.

Guest: I only think of the Phoebe from Friends when I hear that name, but that can be a good or bad thing. Both names are pretty and not overly used.

Aack. I just caught a typo of my own.

**the** function of the character Hickscorner

Great link here to case of girl whose parents named her Talula does te Hula from hawaii

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2008/jul/24/familyandrelationship...

Sorry, should be Talula does the Hula from Hawaii. She was so embarrassed that she went to court to be allowed to change her name.

Other examples given were twins named Benson and Hedges and a child called Violence.