The Baby Name Wizard

Re: regimenting nicknames. I know a Jaymes spelled with a "y" so he could be called Jay as a nickname. We asked why they couldn't just call a James Jay, but they liked the idea that the nickname was *in* the name. Course no-one calls him Jay anyway! It seems this idea is pretty widespread. Along with this trend, I think people are moving away from the traditional nicknames that are pretty different from the original names. I don't think any Saras are called Sally anymore.

Anyone know if Pepe and Paco are still common spanish/latino nicknames (for Jose and Francisco, I think)? The ones that I've met tend to be older, so I'm not sure if these nns are used these days for little Joses, which might tell us if the phenomenon was cross-cultural.

Apropos of the Jaymes mentioned above:

Before my sister was born my parents fully intended on calling her by the traditional nickname for her given name. They even bought some little stickers with the name printed on them. However, after she was born that nickname simply wasn't her - just never felt right - and she has never been called that name a day in her life.

You can have all the plans you want, but ultimately children often contribute to their own names.

Yet Another Jenny: I'd go for Jonah because he needs to start recognising his name and learning to write it later on. Plus JoJo sounds like a girl. Can't they have Jonah P, Jonah J or whatever to differentiate? By the way my son is Judah and often gets called Jonah - It's like people look at Judah and see Jonah!
I'd be interested to know moe about naming trends at Jewish schools. My son's at a Jewish school but I can't think of any names that are especially more popular than they would be elsewhere - except there's a Noah and a Noam in his class.

Love Nina all by itself, gorgeous name.

CA:
Well, you wouldn't think so in this day and age, but we have friends whose new granddaughter's given name is Sarah, and we've been told her young parents will call her Sally. While I think it's sweet and harkens back to a simpler time, I can't help wondering why they just didn't name her Sally. Her older sister is Lucy, and i don't think it's a nickname for anything. Lucy and Sally seem like compatible sister names to me.

EIMI,

Ther is a town in Florida called Dania...north of Hialeah...it's pronounced DAY-nee-uh.
Let us know what pronunciation your friend will use.
Congratulations to all on the safe arrival of the quadruplets.

Eimi,
There is a town named Dania in Florida a little north of Hialeah. It's pronounced DAY-nee-uh.
Let us know how your friend pronounces her daughter's name.
Congratulations to all on the safe arrival of the quads.

Wendy,

Lilah and Lila have become increasingly popular in the past two years or so, but I still think they're lovely, soft, feminine names. Lilah Rose is charming...and then there's my guilty pleasure...Lida Rose. Had to listen to the youtube entry after reading your post. It's a name I've loved since first hearing/seeing the Music Man. I liked the suggestion.

I need to go to bed or I'll be a zombie in the morning. We went to see "The Jersey Boys" this evening. It was fantastic and I can't seem to come down from the excitement it generated. I highly recommend it to anyone living in a city where it's playing. Great memories,at least for those of us over 60!
'nite.

There is a Levantine pop singer called Dania. She pronounces it DAN-ya.

I think Elsie is a perfect fit.

Nina is definitely a stand alone! Love it!

The quads have very nice names. I am impressed. :) Dania looks like DAHN-yah to me. Let us know how mom pro. it.

Given the whole nickname discussion thing, I have realized that being a name enthusiast can have a very important function in society (harrumph)-- we can help keep the old nicknames alive for generations that are losing sight of them! It's nice to have a variety of options.

Erin-- Try Googling "Edgar's Name Pages". It's one of the best sites for explaining the evolution of nicknames. He tells how, before the 17th century, nickname endings were often "in" or "kin" (which meant "little").

Concerning your John: "Jack" came from "Jakin", a corrupted form of "Jenkin" (John + kin). Maybe that will help it make more sense to your husband.

In the same way, "Perkin" was a nickname for Peter, "Watkin" for Walter, "Adekin" (a new one on me) for Adam.

And "Henry" fans, "Hank" came from "Hen + kin" and "Han + kin". (Although I have also read that it came from a telescoping of the Dutch form, "Hendrik".)

yet another Jenny-- My son, who's eight, so admittedly in an "older" generation than yours, has only one friend named "Jonah", although the Joshuas and Jacobs do still come along quite regularly.

I do like the full name Jonah for school. JoJo is very sweet for at home. Do you dislike "Jo" or "Joe"? Both are handsome nicknames for all the Jo- names (Joseph, Joel, Josiah, and Jonah) that, although very familiar, are not currently way over-used. At least, not for very young children.

I wish I could think-- someone on this board ages ago had a Jonah, and I think she had an appealing nickname for him that related to the formal name, but was unusual...

Thanks Eo, Karen, and Karyn, I am leaning toward going with Jonah now that I have thought it through with the help of your responses. In a school setting Jonah is probably the way to go with JoJo being be his special family nickname.

Keren,

Here are the most common "repeat" names for young children at our Synagogue:

GIRLS:
Sophia/Sophia: very common in the general population as well. I think there were many in our grandma's generation and now our kids are being names to honor them.
Maya: An up and comer in general, I think. Also and Israeli/Hebrew name

BOYS:
Ben/Benjamin
Sam/Samuel
Zachary
I do notice less names ending in "n" than in the general population and lots of biblical names. Surprised that they are not many Jacobs.

Whee, relieved to hear that the quads are NOT Ebony, Ivory and Harmony.... although I do miss Hendrix. :0

I would pronounce Dania as Da-NEE-ah but more importantly, how does your friend say it?

Tell her congrats for all of us and hope the quads will continue to have good health.

yet another Jenny -- Glad you're opting for Jonah at school (even preschool). That would have been my recommendation. At my daughter's preschool they insisted on kids learning their given names so her friend Ella always had to write Elinor, even though they called her Ella.

Fish -- I'm late, but think Elsie is a charming nn for Eleanor.

Another origin for Hank, according to the Oxford book, is actually John!

"Originally a medieval back-formation from Hankin, which is compose of Han (a short form of Jehan (John)) + the Middle English diminutive suffix -kin."

It doesn't explain how it came to be used for Henry in America (it doesn't mention any recent use in Britain). I guess it just fits better for Henry than for John. So, another "wrong" nickname!

The reason I looked this up is because I had a nagging voice telling me that Henry was always Harry in medieval times. I can't remember where I read this now, but from what I can remember, Harry was the anglicized pronunciation of the nasal French Henri. Harriet has the same origin, from Henriette. Henry and Henrietta were later spelling-pronunciations, influenced by Latin.

There are a few names that only really existed on paper in medieval times, and only came into vernacular use in English when they were later revived. Matilda, Philippa and Juliana were Latinized forms, and would have been called Maud, Philip and Julian in everyday life (and as we have seen, Julian became Gillian).

Re: Dania, I read it as "Dah-nia".

Congrats to the quads! The names are nice. I would pronounce Dania as Dan-EE-ah. Sort of like the name Danica.

Congrats on whoever is having twins. Best wishes!

Re:Jonah-I would use the full name because of the same reasons that others have mentioned.

Nina is good as a stand-alone or nn.

Eo-Thanks for the expalnantion of nn practices. That certainly does make a lot more sense to ME now.

Eleanor Jean is nice but if you are certain you will also have a Sylvie later on then I might do Eleanor Hazel and Sylvia Jean.

oooh, the quad names are *much* better now. I would say dah-NEE-ah, but that is b/c cilantro is spelled dania in Kenya. I think its a Gujarati word b/c its not the word they use in Tanzania for cilantro (and my Gujarati cookbook calls for dania instead of cilantro).

I like Elsie for Eleanor. Makes sense to me.

re: nicknames and lost nicknames. That was an interesting link about Peggy. I'd always wondered about the Daisy nn for Margaret. And I do wonder about traditional nn being lost--every time we suggest one of the "Ed-" names people ask if we will call him Eddie. When we reply that we'd use Ned, they sort of give us puzzled stares.

BTW, even as I start to like Griffin more and more, DH is still into Edison/Ned (which of course is NOT a traditional nn for Edison). Only a few weeks to go so we've got to start narrowing down our list!

Love all the info about the history of nicknames. I'm also interested by Jehan/Jehanne as old forms of John/Joan. Does anyone know how they were pronounced? Joan of Arc was written as Jehanne at the time.

Yet Another Jenny - yes you're right about Maya, I've noticed that, also Eliana seems to be v popular.

I was doing a bunch of name polls on another site and got so frustrated. I can handle seeing the same names over and over, but it's so tiring seeing people make nasty comments over things that are different. One poll stated that the woman wanted a Hungarian name for her son and then listed some. She got three pages of comments that all read the same...I couldn't vote because they are all horrid, why don't you use a more "american" name/"traditional" spelling.

Why do so many people still want to Anglicize everything? There are so many beautiful names out there, and I love the subtle differences between the various forms. Just look at this column, we've had Jillian, Gillian, Julian, Julianne, Jill, and the male Gillean. Each is a little different, each will appeal more or less to different people.

totally off topic, sorry, but Keren, can I ask you if the name Phoebe has ANY Jewish connections? I remember reading you have a daughter named Phoebe and I have met a couple of Phoebes with Jewish background lately, so it just made me wonder...

I'm not sure if Paco and Pepe are still in wide use. I think not, but that's just an impression. My cousin, named José Francisco, was to be called Pepe Pancho, but that got shortened to Pancho, which is what everyone calls him. But he's in his early thirties, and I don't know if his nickname is typical among Venezuelan babies now. My cousins' children are named Ignacio, Rebeca, Luca (he has an Italian-Venezuelan dad), Viviana, and Felipe. None have nicknames except Viviana, who is called Vivi or Vivianita.

I met a little girl named Evan today. Apparently her parents wanted to name her in honor of her great-grandmother, Evelyn. They felt that Evelyn was too "old sounding", however, and went with Evan instead.

So wild because I'm thinking about using the name Jill/Jillian for my next daughter (providing we have another) in the middle name spot. It started out being Jill because my DH's sisters have the initials J, L and L, but then I thought about Jillian and I really like it more on it's own...

Kayla always will remind me of Days character. There are so many names that to me, go back to soap characters, etc. I think to me, the name that really hits as a TV jump would be Dylan - from 90210. Was in the mid 100's in the 80's, then 34 in the 90's when the show was on. It has remained popular over the last several years and i attribute that to the fans of the show growing up and naming their kids after the character they loved so much. :-)

Aha...Phoebe's Jewish connections. One of my favourite questions.

At first sight one would think Phoebe was the least Jewish name possible, as it comes from Phoebus, the Greek god. However when we were thinking of a name for our daughter we wanted to name her after my husband's late father whose name was Philip and whose Hebrew name was Feivel. I looked up Feivel in a book of Jewish names and discovered that Feivel was a Jewish version of Phoebus adopted by Jews in the Greek empire who were keen to assimilate. I rather liked the idea that they were keen to assimilate but totally failed in that generations later Feivel is still a very Jewish name. So that is the link with Phoebe. I don't know if other families have made the link in the same way.
The other part of this story (sorry, I know I've told it befoe) concerns Phoebe's Hebrew name which is Ofira, chosen for my late grandmother (her name was Goldie and Ophira means gold) When I told an friend who lives in Israel she asked if Ophira was after someone named Philip - because a lot of men named Philip choose to be called Ophir when they go and live in Israel. I still think this is the most wonderful coincidence.

Did you know that JoJo is the name of a female clown on the Disney channel? Another reason to go with Jonah. (Jonah is my 4 year od nephew's name's BTW. He's not Jewish.)

I have a coworker who just had their fifth and sixth kids, a set of boy twins. They have an "M" theme going. So far there are twins M*acy and M*ilan, Maximillian, and twins M*agnum and M*averick.

Tirzah- thanks for that! Is there one more kid? I only spot five. Of course, I'm keen to know, I'm an NE, aren't I?

Sorry to make you repeat yourself :-) Thanks for the information though, I never understood the appeal of Phoebe for Jewish parents, but I never had the nerves to ask any of them why they chose the name. Also here in London I don't think it's a common name so knowing about 3 Phoebes, all who have very religious Jewish background, made it stand out a bit...

Sometimes people call me Billiam, I used to go by that when I was on college radio. I have to explain "Bill" to foreigners. If people call me William it feels really detached, like they don't know me. I REALLY won't answer to Will. It just isn't me.

I wonder if Katelynn (or other K spellings) is the prototype for maintaining nn spelling in the full name. I think I only know of one Caitlin (that spelling only) in real life. How often do they go by Katie?

My long gone Slovenian great aunt was Josephine (sorry I only know the English version of her name) but everyone in my family refers to her as Teta Pepa (teta = aunt). Interesting parallel with Jose > Pepe.

Oops! Sorry Valerie, I guess there are only 5 kids. I understand that they are going to keep going though, so I'll let you know in a couple of years! :)

We're in London too - I think Phoebe is quite popular in the north London trendy set...maybe more so 12 years ago when my daughter was born. There were two at her nursery...

New babies at the nearby hospital recently (suburban Los Angeles):

BOYS: Jamai, Aaron, Alexander, Hector (2), Shiv, Elijah, Mason (2), Daniel, Kalev, Evan, Kaden, Cameron, Cristian, Jason, Nathaniel, Noah (2), Anthony, Nathan(2), Luca, June, Adrian, Asipeli, Fernando, Ethan, Owen (2), Ruben, Angel, Matthew, Sean, Gunnar, Aidan, Kori, Dylan, Aiden, Edward, Tyler, Drew

GIRLS: Mikayla, Katherine, Victoria, Destiny, Ava, Elsy, Bella, Ariana, Kayla and Kameron (twins), Lillianna, Ashley, Hailey (3), Emily (2), Andrea, Glorianna, Kaya, Alexandra, Leilani, Amanda, Danielle, Ciara, Emma, Mariyah, Michaela, Isabella, Miah, Krystal, Rafi, Emme, Samantha, MaKenna, Madelynne, Sarah, Layla

Oh, and one more boy: MARLEY BARACK. I wonder if they were reading the recent Match This threads at BNW?!?!

So the local Kindergarten teachers can probably plan for Hector, Hailey, Mason, Emily, Owen, Nathan, and Noah in 2013...

We know two girls who are approx. 4 with the name Angelina, and go by the nn Nina. We also know a girl who is just about 1, who is Nina alone. I like it alone, and I'm so not a nn as whole name person as I constantly was asked what my whole name was (it's Toby; I'm female). And so, even though our son has never been called anything but Charlie (not Chuck -- my "name" is kind of a joke), his name is Charles.

Our 2nd son's name is Owen Bennett. We loved Bennett -- saw it mentioned above -- but were afraid he'd be one of many Bens. Even if we didn't shorten it, some people would. Just a word of warning to Sterling's mom.

At our synagogue pre-school (kids 2-4), the duplicate names are Benjamin (2 of them), Zachary (2 of them who live a block apart), Sydney (2 - both girls), Jacob (4 at last count), Emily (3 at last count) and Sarah (3).

Queen Elizabeth II Announces She's Pregnant Again

"I believe if I have a girl, I shall give her a pretty name such as Amberjill, Erline, or Cleva," Queen Elizabeth said. "However, if it is a boy, he will be both child of and father to all Britons and therefore will need a dignified name such as Blaxton, Dalbert, Arkwright, or Egerton."

http://tinyurl.com/6hplcp

For Nina (nothing wrong with just Nina, mind you) you could use a longer formal version, like Annina or Antonina.
Or if you like the "classic" quality of Elizabeth, you could imagine possible root names like Annabel or Joanna.
But who says you couldn't make Nina the nickname for Anastasia, Nicoletta, Adriana, or Natalia?

Oly,

This is an incredibly late addendum to your dilemma to match Sterling and Annelise. You said you liked Edmond; what about the Scottish version, Eamonn? (pronounced Aay-mun) I know a little boy with this name and it works really well. The only hiccup is that his mother says that she has to spell it all of the time for people. Great name, though, that's not common here in the US, but that would travel well.

re the "M" family: Wow. I read Magnum and thought "isn't that a little much?", then I had to reprimand myself because I am fond of the name Magnus. (Actually, DH likes it and it's sort of grown on me.) But really, Magnus is totally different from Magnum, right? Right?

I love the name Nina. It is actually my sister's name. She's had some issues with her name and I'll share them as points of consideration. She feels that her name is too childish. She always wished it was a nickname for something more elegant and formal -- there was a teenage phase of "my real name is Antonia" which never caught on. She believes that her name would work well on a creative type -- not the conservative and professional lawyer that she is today. It also irks her that her name means "little girl" in Spanish. (Wasn't there a Nina who used to post on here that said something similar? I remember reading that and telling my sister she wasn't alone.)

Anyway, I love her name, preferred it to Mari which is constantly mispronounced (Mary? Marie?), but thought this might give some real-Nina insight!

jill c-Thoughts on Magnus vs. Magnum
When I see Magnum, I think of the TV show in the US called Magnum P.I. where Tom Selleck was a private investigator. I believe it was on in the 80's. However, when I see Magnus, I link it with the Scottish (I believe) name of Angus because it has a similar spelling. I really don't know if they have anything in common but this is the vibe I get from them. Eo or Sister Melinda please chime in.

Hey Bill,

I grew up in a neighborhood that was predominantly eastern European. My Slavic aunts were all my "tetas". And Pep was a common nickname for a man named Joseph, so I was interested to see your post about your aunt Josephine's nickname and your reference to the Spanish Pepe. Thanks for the food for thought.

Another longer name for Nina could be Janina. I had a friend named this. The pronunciation could be a hassle though, as even then I could never remember whether it was "Ya" or "Ja" at the start (it was OK because she went by Nina).

Thanks, Valerie, for posting the link about Queen Elizabeth's impending arrival! Hilarious.

Phoebe's Jewish connections so interesting-- thanks. Keren, I do like the names you gave your children.

From childhood, I had decided to name any daughter I might have "Phoebe", (runner-up-- "Sibyl") to honor my mother's aunt who died when she was only ten, some time around the early 1900's, I believe...

Phoebe, of course is mentioned in the New Testament, (Romans 16:1) giving her a special resonance for Christians as well. She lived at Cenchra, a port six miles east of Corinth.

Paul describes her as "our sister", and she must have been a trusted associate, as she is believed to have carried the "Epistle to the Romans" to the nascent Roman church. Paul exhorted them to "receive her in the Lord".

Because of this Biblical association, the name "Phoebe"/"Phebe" (King James version) experienced a rise in popularity after the Reformation...

Although hubby and I are both "fundies", I have to credit him with giving me most of the dope on this-- he's much more Bible-literate than I!

toothfairy-- I love Eamonn! Didn't know the Scottish version took two n's, but as soon as I saw it, that instantly became my preferred spelling, thanks! Just out of curiosity, are their other Celtic spellings of it out there?

Magnus is Scandinavian--medieval kings of Norway and Sweden used the name, and the surname Magnusson is obviously derived from it. There was also a Roman-era French saint called Magnus (or Magne) and a German saint from around the same time called Magnus/Magnoald/Mang (depending on the context).

No etymological connection to Angus that I know of--Angus is just straight Gaelic.

No relation to Agnes either--that's Greek!

And no relation to the Southern US surname Mangum, either, I suspect--took me forever to realize that wasn't Magnum, on street signs and such.

Magnum makes me think of champagne, and I believe it's best to avoid names with alcoholic connotations (you will find no Alizes in my future family).

I live in the apartment above a cute little boy named Eamon. His baby sister is Adele, and I think they're both sweet names.

Love the discussion of Phoebe. Does anyone else think of the shepherdess character in As You Like It?

re: Phoebe

I actually think of the young lady "adopted" by Rose in Alcott's book "Eight Cousins." This is a very positive connotation for me.

yet another girl's name I won't get to use. sigh. (!)

The other "problem," with Eamon is that it's so similar in sound to Aidan et. al.

I do get a very different vibe from Magnus and Magnum.
Magnus has a brother named Alistair. Magnum has a brother named Maverick.

I think of Holden's sister in Catcher in the Rye when I hear Phoebe.

Oh, and my Big Find....Dh watches this show, "Tougher in Alaska." The host is Geo. I assume it's short for George, but it's pronounced just like you'd think. I immediately thought, "Oooh, a clever nn with that o sound for a classic boy's name-that has potential!"
Dh says I completely missed the point of the show.
Oh, well!

I thought some of you might be interested in what I've started calling "nursing names" because they come to me in the middle of the night while I'm nursing the baby and goofy with sleepiness ... names that, when I think of them, seem like the most beautiful names, and then in the morning I'm not so convinced.

It happened when my second was a newborn, and then again the other night (my third is a newborn). The names are (both female):
Finna and Dantha

The night after I thought Finna was so gorgeous, I became convinced that Finna paired with an "F" middle name would be so darling, and my favorites (again, while nursing in the wee hours) were Finna Faith, Finna Frances, and Finna Faire.

I googled both names, and found that "finna" seems to be (according to urbandictionary.com) a somewhat new contraction of "fixing to," as in, "I'm finna go to the store." It also means "to meet" in Faroese, Icelandic, and Swedish.

Dantha shows up a couple of times as a Sri Lankan male name, and Diantha is on behindthename.com as an elaboration of Diana or derived from the flower "dianthus."

When I told my husband he thought I was crazy, but I admit they are kind of pretty to my ear ...

I like Geo too! my husband is a geologist so I thought it was perfect, but he says it sounds like someone named their son for a car.

There are some lovely literary Phoebe connections. I especially like the little sister in Catcher in the Rye, and also the heroine of Georgette Heyer's book Sylvester.
The only downside we've found is that lots of people can't spell it, we've seen Feebi, Phobe, Pheobe. And also the irritating character on Friends...

another amy-- "Phebe Moore", Rose Campbell's friend in "Eight Cousins", is also one of my favorites. Interesting that Louisa May Alcott used the "Phebe" variant without the "o"-- which I double-checked and is the spelling used in the King James version of the Bible...

Phebe, who came from the poor-house to work for the Campbells and was ultimately 'adopted' by them, was such an admirable character. She was spunky, always trying to improve herself, and had an almost miraculous singing voice. Don't you love the fact that in "Rose In Bloom", (the sequel to "Eight Cousins"), Phebe grows up to fall in love with Archie Campbell, one of the nicest of the cousins!

Another fun fact is that "Phoebe" means "the shining one". The name has so many neat associations...

I happened to be reading about the poet "Caedmon" and it got me wondering if we'll ever see a revival of REALLY old but obscure names, like seventh century Caedmon? It certainly has the requisite hard "c" and the fashionable "en/un" ending. But people almost seem to prefer making up new ones in their quest for the unusual.

Wow, thanks for the great feedback on Nina. I really do love the name. Interestingly enough I also love the name Mari!

My twins aren't due until February, so I don't know what I'm having yet. I will definately be finding out!

I have a similar nickname dilemma with the name Leo. I love Leo, but I'm not crazy about any of the full names associated with the name. I do think Leo can stand alone, but I prefer a full name.

Other boy names I like are Connor and Michell, but I worry that they may be a bit too played out. Neil and John are our more traditional bets.

I don't know if any of the readers will remember me as the person that had asked for opinions on the name Freida. Well, we recently got a new dog and named her Freida! That way I get to have the name in my life anyway!!

This is actually my second attempt to post a reply: I had something typed out yesterday and my one year old came by and pressed something and "poof" it was all gone!