The Baby Name Wizard

I agree wholeheartedly. My mother, whose given name is Karla, was "Binky" to her immediate family. I've always loved it. It was never used outside the family, and usage trailed off by my mother's 20s, but it was all the more intimate and loving for having such limited use. "Binky" was somehow derived from "peeky," which is what my grandfather said to my mother when he played peek-a-boo from behind his newspaper each morning.

I've always been fascinated with the "pure" nicknames in my family. My uncle Wilfred was known as 'tsi pite when he was little (a mangled French Canadian version of "little one") and is now known as Pete to all his friends, Pite to his family, and W. B. Pete ln legally. I had a great aunt Germaine, nn Skippy, a family friend Ernest, nn Gip, and my husband's great-aunts Vi, nn Boots, and Asusanah (sp?) Maria del Carmen whose nn & legal name is Toti. Unfortunately, since my cousin Leon insisted we stop calling him Butch, there are no pure nicknames in my generation or the next that are used universally. Why do you think that is?

Oh, I can't blame my uncle for wanting to go with something other than Wilfred. I guess my grandmother tried Willie for a while but it just didn't stick.

I always assumed some of those were actually their given names. Enlightening!

Off topic so soon :( but a friend just alerted me to as birth announcement in her local newspaper...
::drumroll, please, just for the baby's sake::
Zyke Zayne Zachariaz Zoltan Zyduck

This wasn't so rare in the South of a certain time, but my grandmother Anne was "Sis" or "Sister" to all her brothers and sisters, both younger and older. One of her brothers was "Brother," but it didn't stick as much as Sis. My father's cousins still refer to her as "Aunt Sis," which I love. I have no idea why Anne (and not her older sisters Dovey [given name] or Ruth, or her younger sister Lellie [who goes by Margaret and has for seventy-plus years]) was the one to be "Sis."

My grandmother was named Brownette in an attempt to feminize a family name. Not sure where it started but she was called Mousie but most everyone and Brownie by my grandfather. I always thought my great-grandparents who had lovely names (Eleanor and Frederick) were off their rocker. My grandmother was their only child born after a number of miscarriages so I suspect Brown had special meaning besides being my great-grandmother’s maiden name but still!

My husband's grandmother and two of her brothers had some great nns -- Eskel (nn Eck), Ninian (nn Nic) and Grant (nn Bus). My grandfather was Anthony (nn Bob).

Well, some people are still doing this--just take Miley Cyrus for example. I believe the story is that her dad called her Smiley Miley because we smiled all the time and then it just became Miley. I believe she only recently legally changed her name to Miley (a step that mos of those you name I'll assume never took). But, still it was a name she "earned" after her given birth name.

I agree so much! My Aunt Sissy was named so by her baby brother, my dad - she was born the same year as Sissy Spacek, coincidentally. And my Great Uncle Buster was actually Aloysius. His brother, Uncle Bobby is actually named Peter. I don't know the reasons for either of those, though...

Oh Aunt Sissy's name is Margaret!

I agree with the poster who says the "sissy" thing (and conversely, "Bubba") is still around in the south, though it's true it usually doesn't stick anymore. My younger sister called me sissy when she was young. I'm not sure when she grew out of it. My husband's side of the family is still very old-fashioned, so my nieces and nephews call each other sissy and bubba, and whichever new baby comes along gets called "big 'un" (big one) until another new baby comes ... we have big babies in this family! :)

My grandfather had two brothers with interesting nicknames - Deal and Tood. I'm not sure how those came about.

My husband's great-aunt's parents took nicknaming to an extreme....

When their eighth child was born, they couldn't come up with a name, so they nicknamed the baby 'Sister' until she was five and had to go to school. At that ripe old age, they allowed Sister to choose her own name. She officially became "Alice Mae", but was known to family and friends as "Sister" until her death...

Don't think that the Social Security people would care for that too much, but it's an interesting approach, especially for the late 1800s!

Oh - and my dad had a cousin nicknamed Smokey. I think his real name was John.

I know we've discussed this before.
Not complaining....just trying to remember what thread generated the conversation.

I have an Uncle Issac who has always been Bud and a second cousin named Martha who has always been called Sugar.
My husband had a stepbrother called Cubby.

Parents just want to control everything these days, I guess. Remember when a kid could head outside for the day and come back around dinner?
Ah, for a simpler time!

We do call Henry "Boo," at least a third of the time.
The funny thing is my young mommy friends all thought it was our attempt to use the hip, urban term of endearment, but it's short for Boo Boo Bear because he had such a penchant for running into things with his head.

My dad was nicknamed "Mooch" as a child because he was always mooching things off his older sisters. It stuck and they still call him that, and all my cousins call him Uncle Mooch. His real name is Christopher.
On the same side of the family, I have a whole family of cousins who are still always called by what they called themselves as babies. So everyone calls them Neffer, Popper, & Bee instead of Jennifer, Christopher, and Melinda. It's hilarious to be calling an adult "Popper"!

This is a fun topic! I have several unrelated stories so here goes...

My mom's name is Frances so normally she goes by Fran, but to the family she is Aunt Fancy. It obviously does sound like a real nickname for Frances, but it also came from tights she wore as a little girl that had ruffles on the bottom and were called "Fancy Pants"!

I actually got my own nickname last year: Chavez for an inside joke. Only two people use it, but I felt so special for them to spend the time thinking of it.

The last nickname connection I have is my friend who gained one from his college email address. (This is not his real name but the example works the same way) Calvin Alec's email was Calec@school.edu so his friends call him Calec and then that got shortened to Cal!

I have an Uncle Charlie who has nearly always been Bud as well. and his cousin is still known as Butch, as far as I know. Actually, I have zero clue what Butch's real name is!

I was called Rare until I was 5 and went to kindergarten. Apparently I came home that day and told my parents to call me Amy. I'm guessing the teacher didn't appreciate the nickname. after going to college with so many Amys I've always wishes I'd stuck with Rare!

Funny, my grandmother (Dorothy/Dot) had a good friend named Bud, a woman. It has honestly never occurred to me to wonder what her real name was until this post! Somehow when my grandmother said it, "Bud" just seemed natural for an 80-year-old woman!

When I was growing up, our neighbour across the street was always called Shorty (he must have been over 7 feet tall). Having known him since birth, it pretty much rocked my world when I found out his actual name was George. His brother was named Whitey for his extremely blond hair. I am not sure why one name was ironic and one wasn't.

Jenny, I know several people who have nicknames based on their email address. At my last company there were at least 3 of these nicknames, based on first initial + last name: J3by, Sh@mpson and the best of all - Sc@rey.

(3 = e, @ = a)

Jessica, Re: Zyke Zayne Zachariaz Zoltan Zyduck, I almost would have had a hard time believing that, but it's a small, small world.

I imagine you have ties to Wisconsin, because a friend of mine from there told me about the same announcement in her paper!

Re: "pure" nicknames, 2 quickly come to mind from my family, but as Laura noted, both from an older generation (both born in the 1920s):

My great uncle (my maternal grandmother's brother) was Everett Jr., but EVERYONE called him "Slim". He fit the name - well over 6 feet tall, and as skinny as could be.

A great aunt went by "Honey". I don't recall which one of my great aunts it was, though, as she died sometime back and she was from a very large family of mostly girls. The sisters' names were Myra, Ruth, Agnes, Madeline & Johanna. I think it was Myra or Agnes who was known by all as "Honey". As an aside, the family had 3 boys as well - George, John & Richy, I believe; 8 kids in all.

I had forgotten about the nn "Bud". Both my husband's grandfather (Kenneth - born 1910) and my great uncle (Paul - born in the early 1920s) were known as Bud to everyone. We even called him Uncle Bud.

My husband is from a rural family in Wisconsin, and they have all matter of unrelated nns. He has an Uncle Max whose real name is Conrad, and an Uncle Pat whose name is Richard. This nn went so far that he named his son Pat Jr. There were also the local diner owners, matriarch Lover, and one of her son's was Whistle Killer. These are older folks--b. in the 1930's or earlier.
More that I won't bother naming, except to mention that my husband himself is named Michael, however as kids his brother decided to call him Chuck, and all the nieces and nephews call him Uncle Chuck. I can always tell if someone knows him through his brother, b/c they call him Chuck, but nobody else does.

Elizabeth in Canada, I like Sc@rey, that's great!
Nowadays it seems that using something like an email nickname is more common than using something to do with your physical appearance ala Slim, Whitey, etc mentioned above. Definitely says a lot about how times (and the ways we communicate) change. I wonder if it also has to do with the fact that we're so sensitive about physical appearance now? Any takers on that theory?

Ps. Just thought of another famous nickname from my neck of the woods-- Whitey Bulger real name James (I just looked that part up, who knew?)

My FIL and his sisters are named Joseph, Barbara, Carol, and Linda. Their nn's remain Pete, Poochie, Smokey, and Cookie. Only their father used them up until he died just a couple of years ago, but we still call Barbara "Aunt Poochie". My MIL did name her oldest son with the mn Peter.

Funny thing is, I know 2 other women named Linda who are about the same age and they BOTH have the nn Cookie.

Ooh, I just remembered a boy at my high school whose nickname was "Nasty." Seriously. Everyone called him that, even the teachers. I even heard his mother called him that sometimes ... but that could've been a myth. :)

Eeek, I'm commenting like crazy on this post, but had to agree with Elizabeth in Canada's comment about nicknames based on e-mail addresses, mostly ones whose first initial, last name combination makes a funny word - for example, a guy whose nickname became Smackey.

In the New Testament, Simon Peter's given name appears to be Simon, and Peter (literally "rock") seems to be a nickname. I've always wondered if Peter was rather "rock-like" in his physical appearance!

I'm two weeks from my due date and was discussing names with my mom, the other day. While discussing Jamie vs. Jimmy (nn's for our boy option, James), talk turned to other family nicknames. Turns out my dad's Uncle Fred was known as June (short for Junior) for most of his life.

From Celebrity Baby Blog:

"Star running back Shaun Alexander, 31, and his wife Valerie are expecting their fourth child in March. The couple are already parents to three daughters -- Heaven, 4, Trinity, 3 and Eden, 1."

Start your predictions! For girl, maybe Faith, Bethany or Charis. For boy, maybe Jordon.

Tirzah, you don't think Magdalene, Dolores, Perpetua, Guadalupe or Lourdes are equally likely? Maybe Lourdes, actually, if they're into Madonna and the nicknames Lola/Lulu. But your guesses are probably more on target.

We don't have anything like this nicknaming tradition in my family--nicknames always came from some aspect of the first or middle name (Jack for John, Eddie for George Edward Junior, Kippy for Christopher, etc.) Nor is there much of this in my circle of acquaintances.

But when I attended boarding school in England for a year, the place was rife with this kind of nicknaming--I dated a Zippy so called after the bike he rode as a little boy. A friend of mine was known as Onz (his name was Simon) because of his similarity to a character on some tv show. These names weren't just used by school friends, but by family and teachers as well. Can one of our British commenters let us know if this kind of nicknaming is endemic across social groups and regions in England?

I love this as I am the KING OF NICKNAMES! I am such a fan of them-- especially the ones that stick and make even YOU forget your given name.

In highschool, I knew a fuzzy. I was so shocked when I learned his given name. I have a cousin called Mushy-- and even though he is a grown man now, I can't help but call him Mushy. I have a family member named Zeddy -- not short for anything. Just Zeddy. My sister Joyce is nicknamed Joey. I love that one the most. I have cousins nicknamed Tiger, Yogi, Cookie and they all stuck! I think that rocks! And when people are looking for baby names, I think it's cool to not only look at family names but too look at family nicknames, too.

I have a nephew named Izaiah and everyone calls him Izzy. It just caught on. His mother called him Izzy (outloud and by accident) at his baseball practice and it just caught on. This isn't really a "pure" nickname as it stems from the IZ in his name but I love it because now his given name (Izaiah) sounds so foreign and that's what the best nicknames do!

Also, Tippy -- this was a nickname in my family and I just love it. She is a cousin of mine from the south and this is one of the nicknames I'd give to a child as a real name.

COLL:

I always wanted a daughter named Zipporah and I wanted to call her Zippy.

Hmm, if it's a girl maybe Nevaeh (which is just Heaven backward). Hmm, Faith is good. I'm guessing it's going be a boy (ha) so I'd suggest:

Abel (kind of fits with their word themed names)

This is really off-topic, but if anyone's been following fashion week, have you noticed what a baby name goldmine the model's names are? Almost all of them are dramatic feminine names from all over the world (although some I suspect are Jennifers that renamed themselves, like 'Holland')

Some of the ones that caught my attention:
Alek
Aline
Agnete (I think ah -NYEH - teh?)
Anja
Bette
Behati (LN Prinsloo - does anyone know where this is from?)
Cicely
Colette
Daiane
Danijela
Domenika
Doutzen
Edythe
Ekaterina
Eniko
Eugenia
Flavia
Freja
Gemma
Geidre (I've seen the name more than once, so it's not a typo)
Guinevere
Georgina
Hanne
Hannelore
Hollis
Honorine
Iekeliene
Ingerid
Irina
Iza
Ilze
Isabeli (a peppy alternative to Isabelle?)
Jaunel
Katia
Kinee (with an accent like Renee)
Kinga
Ksenia (I think this is the same name as Xenia?)
Laragh
Lavinia
Lovisa
Luize
Marcelina
Mariacarla
Marcelle
Malin
Milana (quite the place name)
Morwenna
Morgane
Petra
Querelle
Romina
Raquel
Sabina
Shalom
Sachi
Siri
Svetlana
Sessilee
Suvi
Timoxa (??)
Thais
Tao
Trilby
Tassara
Tiliu
Valentina
Vika
Yuliana
Zosia
...and there are 4 Zuzana's listed on Style.com!

The most popular name seems to be the international Anna. I've also wondered if Jourdan might be come an accepted "female" version of Jordan if Jourdan Dunn remains popular. (Don't see the spelling Agyness catching on ... but who knows!)

Longtime lurker who had to comment as my husband and I love these old nicknames. My paternal grandmother was named Winifred but called Babe until the day she died. Her grandson--my uncle--was Robert Jr. but went the Miley Cyrus route and had his name legally changed to reflect his nickname: Pooh Bear (first name Pooh, last name Bear). Then he talked his wife into changing her name to, no joke, Honey.

PS - Behati is a white model from Namibia, if that helps!

Funny, I was just thinking about this today while watching old Leave It to Beaver reruns (maternity leave leads to some time wasting, I admit)--many of the characters have these "pure nns", like Beaver, Lumpy, Whitey, etc. While I like the folksy, familiar feel of these nns, I'm relieved that it's unlikely my child(ren) will ever have one--they often seem pretty unflattering, or undignified (see above, lol--Lumpy?). In my own family I have an Uncle Spark (good with cars) and an Aunt Muffie (from Margaret), which aren't so bad, but I wouldn't want my precious babe to turn into a Beav or a Lumpy. I also knew a Pud (pronounced like the first syl. of Pudding, because the kid liked pudding and was a bit chubby)--also not something I'd want for a kid.

Interestingly timed post. I was just asking some friends what to do about my dd who starts preschool this year. All her life she's been called Bitsy and would even introduce herself as such. She does know her 'real' name. I really don't want to loose that nn for her, but hesitated sending her to school to be called that. Why did I hesitate? I don't really know. I like that she has that special nn and I don't mind that many of our friends use it for her too. The other nns for our children are just for our family, but this one feels more 'public', if that makes sense - and I am not sure it does!

Dh had a friend growing up called Tyke - by everyone. When he went to school the teacher called him by his name and dh said "why does she keep calling you that??" "Because that's my name!" Nevertheless, last we heard from the guy about 10 years ago (in his early 20's) he was still called Tyke...

Again, awesome post. I was actually thinking about this recently. I was thinking about how nicknames are social, by which I mean that while sometimes you can ask not to be called X or Y, a lot of times you don't have a say. People just pick what they want to call you. (As a teacher, I was thinking that this was a good way to talk to students about language being social.)

Oh, also, maybe these kinds of nicknames are less common because less people are given the same name. This idea has come up before right--that there are so many nns for James, Mary, John, Margaret, William, etc. because so many were given those names in the past? I feel like nns often come out of necessity--when there are two Stacys, Jennifers, Jasons, Christophers...

I also love the idea of email as providing the new nicknames. I've definitely seen this too.

I have an Uncle Robert (or Bob) who has somehow become Big Big.

Also, my mother managed to give my name, Amy, many unrelated nicknames: Jo/Joey, Frito, Pumpkin, Sissy, and more. When my sister (Amber) was younger, we were called "Jo" and "Jack" although I can't remember why.

On the topic of nicknames:My significant other was named George Leonard Ln, III. His mother didn't like the name, but was going to call him Georgie-albeit, unhappily. A Greek friend from the neighborhood(with a heavy accent) came to see the new baby and pronounced Georgie as Juddy.. Sixty years later, he is still Jud or Juddy. He will often fail to look up if he is addressed as George in a business or formal situation. And he always knows when a telemarketer is calling-before they get to the pitch.

I know this is off topic but I've been reading this blog for several months and would love to get the NE's input on the name dilemma my husband and I are having. We're expecting our first baby, a girl, this November. Our last name is a bit of a mouthful--three syllables, Italian, begins with a B and ends in an I. Names that end in vowels tend to sound best, but we haven't found any we're really in love with. We both really like Ingrid, but I worry that to many people it sounds stern or harsh. I don't want our girl to have a name that is a burden to her, if that makes sense.

What do you all think of Ingrid? Maybe too hard sounding with our last name, or just a little too unfashionable at the moment? Any other ideas? Other names we've considered include:
Eve
Iris
Greta
Flora
Odessa

Thanks in advance for any input!

Opal: yes, I do have connections to Wisconsin. Knowing what I know about the people, sub-culture and just humanity, I believe it. Google it, by the way. It's there.

My grandpa had a little Sister named Miriam. Somewhere along the line she got nn "Babe" bc she was such a cry-baby or something. She is 70+ and still known to lots of people as (Aunt)Babe.

Nicole-

Is Inga too obvious? I know a young Inga, and I've always liked it.

I don't find Ingrid too harsh or too unfashionable.
I love Greta. It's one of my current favorites, although I'd probably use it as a nn for Margaret.
I prefer Eva to Eve, though both are pretty. Are they getting too popular for you, though?
The others aren't personal favorites of mine, but I suspect they'll have lots of fans on this board.

Nicole- I like Flora with your last name and Iris, as well. Another thougt that comes to mind is Natalena(nn Lena, if you like).

Nicole -
You don't live in Boston by any chance, do you? I overheard a pregnant woman talking about Ingrid this past weekend! How bizarre if that was you...
Anyway, I'm with the group that thinks Ingrid is a little too harsh. It doesn't help that all I hear is "ingrate" when I hear the name. With an Italian last name, I think Odessa would be a great choice -- it's strong and feminine, and I never hear it anywhere. The others are nice, but are certainly popping up on playgrounds and in conversations, especially Eve, Greta and Iris.
Good luck!

@Nicole - I certainly don't consider any of the names you've mentioned to be overly popular. But then, I'm more mainstream/boring in my tastes than most of this board.

I love Eve. I like Greta - the others on your list are too unfamiliar in the US generally, and if your LN is already a mouthful they might not work. Ingrid and the like do have a certain hipster appeal - though I'm overly sensitive to names that might inspire teasing. Best wishes!

Nicole,

Ingrid will always be Ingrid Bergman to me. Beautiful, blonde, solomn and serious. Greta also seems serious to me. I think it's something about German names. BTW, there is a Greta in our neighborhood, so it could be on the rise.

I thought of Inga too, but it seems very Scandinavian. Inga Bertolli, for example, would seem like an odd mix of ethnicities to me.

I know a mom from Norway named Ingrid. Her daughter is named Nora. (Nora from Norway; I never noticed that before!) I think Nora Bertolli sounds nice.

Someone cared enough to turn my husband, originally named Ryan, into a Skip for life.

Care might be the wrong word actually. He was the smallest guy in an all male dorm and the first day one of the older guys said "I'm giving you a nickname and it's going to stick: you can pick Flipper, Skippie or Junior. If you don't pick, then I will pick for you".

It did stick! By his senior year he'd graduated from Skippie to Skip and he still goes by it!

I don't find Ingrid harsh or stern at all. The Scandinavian/Italian mix sounds nice. Use it. When she is grown she will sound sophisticated. I like female names that end in consonants. They break up the monotony of today's vowel-heavy styles.

Ingrid does sound a little harsh to me but I think it is the gr that does it because Greta sounds a little harsh too--although maybe less so. I do like (and agree with) Bill's comment that it sounds sophisticated though. I bet you will need a nn for when she is young though. People might need something cutesy you know? Then again, maybe they will adjust.

The ethnic mix doesn't bother me but I think I might expect that the names reflect her ethnic background.

^also Ingrid seems widely used in Latin America, so there may be less of a perception of mismatch between the Scandinavian first name and Latin-derived last name.

Nicole -- I think Ingrid is a beautiful name, but perhaps that's because I have a daughter named Astrid so the similarities win me over. Plus I had a good friend growing up named Ingrid. The name has lots of positive associations for me. I agree with bill that Ingrid with an Italian surname will sound very cosmopolitan.

Of the others you mention I also like Greta (I have a young cousin with this name -- "just Greta") and Iris. The others are NMS.

TO S (who mosted on the model names):

OH my word, thanks for that list! I was just discussing the name Iza with my sister! We don't know how to say it, but we both like it. She likes it especially because she has a son whose name is Izaiah.

Do you know, or does anyone know, how Iza is said? I say: Issa like melissa.

TO S (who posted on the model names):

OH my word, thanks for that list! I was just discussing the name Iza with my sister! We don't know how to say it, but we both like it. She likes it especially because she has a son whose name is Izaiah.

Do you know, or does anyone know, how Iza is said? I say: Issa like melissa.

can't decide-I am posting just a few more names I thought of after retiring to bed last night.
Trinity Elise or
Ivy Callista; Ivy Calliope

Nicole: I'm guessing that one of my favorite names right now that has an Italian feel (Bianca) will not work because of your LN starting with B. My next suggestion is Lydia, but of the names you listed either Eve or Flora seems like it would flow the best. IMO, Ingrid does sound a bit harsh with such a LN.

More on topic, and what a fun topic it is, I went to college with a Tom Sh3ck3nb@ch. So since pronouncing his LN (3=e @=a) was so tricky he became Shake N Bake. No one ever called him Tom!

And in my genealogy travels, I found out my dad's Uncle was called "Bus" but his real name was Lawrence. I'm not really sure where he got his nn but maybe it was size related.

Another celeb nn quiz: Whoopi Goldberg?? I will post the answer later but any guesses as to her real name. Hint:fairly popular in 70's but spelled differently.

I have a question for the "Ingrid sounds harsh" camp: How do you feel about Margaret? It's essentially the same setup: first syllable stressed, internal 'gr' sound, consonant ending. Is it the preponderance of nns that make it more user-friendly? Is Grace harsh-sounding?

Oops forgot some comments-
Re Zyke: All I can say is WOW!

Re Model Names:How do you pronounce Iekeliene?
When I try I get EYE-kell-ee-enne is that right?
Or maybe EYE-EEK-lee-enne? Too out there for me!

Re celebrity Shaun Alexander: I think Charis is cute and would fit in the sibset.

Ingrid is a fab name that actually sounds quite liquid and fluid to me; I'm not sure why. Whereas Astrid has the [pleasantly, IMO] sibilant sound, the "gr" of Ingrid as I pronounce it is set back in the throat and thus softened (similar to the G in the word "G" in the words Greer and Greek.) By contrast, the "GR" in Greta is much more of a Tony the Tiger "gerrrrr" sound to me.

Speaking of Greer, whaddya think? ;) I think it's a great combo with Bartollini or Bellini or what have you. It also has the monosyllabic sound you seem to like with "Eve."

Zoerhenne, I think Whoopi's birth name was something like Karyn Elaine Jones. That doesn't look or sound quite right, but I know it was similar to that. I believe she legally changed her name, though.

It's amazing to know the birth names of celebs. How about Michael Landon of Bonanza & Little House on the Prairie fame?

Bill-I am in the Ingrid is harsh camp. I don't really care for the "gr" but do love Grace and Margaret is okay. I don't care for Marge though-it's too rhymey with barge-eww. Anyway, for me I think it is more the ending sound that turns me off. Grace seems soft because of the "ss" sound at the end. Ingrid and Astrid are just nms though if those were the only choices available would pick Astrid because of the beginning 'Ass' as softer than the beginning 'In'.
It's all a personal thing. As I said in a post a while back I do not really care for F names.

I have a funny nickname story. In my background, absolutely nobody goes by their real first name--not even in the office/amongst colleagues; everyone uses nicknames. Don't know if Laura would call them "pure" since they don't mean anything in any language; they are just pleasing double syllable sounds, like KirKir.

My mother's nickname was exceptional in that sense. When she was very young, my mother's family started calling her "Honey." They all had learned English in varying degrees, so I've no doubt they knew that Honey meant the sweet product of bees. But to them, it was largely a pleasing sound. I don't think they knew of the nuances with which the term is used as an endearment in the English-speaking world.

When she traveled/moved to Europe and the U.S., my mother realized with surprise that her nickname confused the locals, especially the Anglophone ones.

Neighbors would see a grown man address my 20-something mother as "Honey" and they'd say, "Oh is that your husband?" "No," she'd answer, "that's my brother!" She was on the receiving end of a lot of funny looks!

regarding the pure nicknames, it seems like most of the comments are either older relatives (where it was common practice) or siblings and close family members. In our family, my sister is known as Weesa, my brother Qwinnie, my niece as Bawah, and my son is Army, but these names would never be used outside the home or inner family circle (except Army). I know a lot of my friends have kids with nicknames that have been bestowed by siblings, and I believe they will survive, but only in the familial unit. Is that what Laura is talking about, the compartmentalization of nick names?

Nicole, I like the name Ingrid and (going along with what Amy3 said) I think it would make for an interesting combo with your last name.

Opal-You win the grand prize!
She was in fact born Caryn Elaine Johnson on November 13, 1949 (some sources say 1950 or 1955), in New York City . Goldberg and her younger brother, Clyde , were raised by their mother, Emma, in a housing project in the Chelsea section of Manhattan.
Goldberg's father abandoned the family, and her single mother worked at a variety of jobs--including teaching and nursing--to make ends meet. Goldberg changed her name when she decided that her given name was too boring. She claims to be half Jewish and half Catholic, and "Goldberg" is attributed to her family history.

Another site says she was nicknamed Whoopi (as in "whoopi-cushion") because of being overly flatulent. She added the name Goldberg, taken from the Jewish side of her family.

re: Behati--Bahati is swahili for "luck". I've always thought it was derived from Arabic but maybe it is more of an Indian word? There is a lot of Hindu/Gujarati influence in southern Africa.

re: nicknames--I forgot I also had a great-aunt who went by Aunt Babe. She was lots younger than her older brothers and sister. I've been trying to remember her real name but I think the only name I connect with her (Fern) was really the name of her sister.

this is going to bug me. must email mom...

Nicole-
Does Nola work?

Not to drag the thread off-topic too soon, but someone asked for repeaters from class lists.
Jack's kindergarten has 24, and the only repeater is Haley/Haillee.
This was also a repeater at his first preschool.

I have actual class lists for Henry's preschool, and they're really a lot of fun this year.
There is a catch, though: Each class has multiple gender neutral names, and I don't know the families well enough to know if the little ones are girls or boys.
So, I'm torn about whether to post them now.
Does anyone have a preference?

Thanks to everyone for your thoughts on Ingrid. (Mari, we're in Southern California--funny that the name came up this weekend across the country!) Seems like the harsh/not harsh camps are about equally split, which is about what I assumed. Having grown up with a very common name, I'm hesitant to give our baby a more unusual name that we know a lot of people won't like. Would that set her up to dislike her name, or view it as a hardship? But, we are committed to giving a name that is a bit more unusual, so is it just inevitable that some people won't like whatever we choose?

There are other issues with each of our other choices:
Greta is the title of a movie starring Hillary Duff that is supposed to come out sometime this year, and we're worried a teen drama will "date stamp" the name. Eve (when you include Eva, Evie, Evelyn, etc) is becoming more popular, and we really only have one syllable middle name options (Ruth or Lane--both family names) that don't seem to flow. Hubby isn't huge or Iris or Flora, and I worry that Odessa sounds like less like a lovely old-fashioned name and more like a trendy place name.

I like Nora but hubby isn't a fan, and we already have a Lydia in the family. Thanks for these ideas, and any others anyone may have!

Nicole/Bill,

I think Ingrid is great on the right person and with the right LN, but in general it can seem a bit harsh to me. It's not just the "grr" sound - for me it's the word "grid" which seems so - hard and square. I don't know any other way to explain it. That said, I did have a friend in university who was blond, gorgeous, outgoing and very capable who completely suited the name.

Greta doesn't have the same effect on me, partially because I see it as an extension of Margaret which I already have strong associations with, and partially because I can see two other sides of it - fairytales' Gretel and Greta Garbo.

J&H's mom, I like Nola! I wonder if people now have a too strong of an association with NOLA standing for New Orleans, LA? I would love to see Henry's class list! I have a younger brother Jack--he's in his mid-twenties.

Love Ingrid! And I think with a musical last name, you might want a stronger (like Ingrid or Iris) first name to go with it. I have a rather unusual first name that is rather girly (3 syllable, ends with an a) that doesn't 'match' my unusual Germanic last name.

Also, it might be good to remember that while people often have strong feelings about names in the abstract, once the meet the person, the name takes on that person's personality. So while some posters find Ingrid harsh, I'm sure that if they were lucky enough to meet your little girl, some would definitely be swayed by her sweetness.

Nicole: I don't think you can go wrong! I'm in the "Ingrid is great" camp.

Inspired by you folks (and the fact that it counts towards my minor), I'm taking and Old English course this term. Lo and behold, I wound up at the end of the row...with the full class list in front of me for the lecture. They were mostly expected for a group of people around 20, with a few exceptions- Caelyn, girl, CS major and clearly a gamer; Poppy with a *very* Greek surname; Guinevere; and my absolute favourite, Thomas Beckett whose stated major was Medieval Studies. He's real, I looked him up on the student directory for my school...awesome!

Blyte, was Beckett Thomas' middle name or surname?

Sorry, typo - Blythe, not Blyte.

I find Ingrid to be a magical, almost fairy-tale kind of name. Not in the least harsh. (I like consonants too.)

Sophisticated. Love it with Italian surname. When Ingrid Bergman married Roberto Rosselini (sp?) she got that same interesting combo. Didn't she name her twin girls Ingrid and Isabella Rosselini in the Fifties? (Long before "Isabella" took off in a pop-culture way.)

I lived in New Orleans for years and years, and wouldn't associate the name "Nola" with the city's nickname, even though that is pretty widely used. Even if I did, it wouldn't bother me. Nola has a very pretty sound.

Please, J&H's mom, post your lists-- can't wait!
And anyone else who has class lists to post...

My daughter's class of kids ages 2 1/2-3:

GIRLS
Brooke
2 Carolines, of which she is one (but goes by the name she bestowed upon herself, F*refly, * = i)
Ellis
Daly
Nora
Shannon

BOYS:
Allister
Harry
Michael
Zach
Zazou
one I'm forgetting -- something like Desmond

Nicknames, we love 'em here in my house. Nobody gets called by their real name and the nicks have all morphed along till they achieved absolutely zero relationship to the born name. A friend of mine in college did the (to us) hilarious thing of adding to the front of people's names rather than chopping them or adding a diminutive to the end. So we were Glamar, Glamilla, Squasha, Fancy, and me, Gl*th (* = e). Mine was the one that stuck, and I still feel charmed when old friends call me that.

Eo, Ingrid Bergman did name one of her girls Ingrid, but was forced to change it as it is illegal in Italy to give a child the same first name as a parent. So, Isabella's sister was renamed Isotta Ingrid. Thanks for your comments on Ingrid and Nola!

Nicole-Don't get me wrong on Ingrid, it's a good name i.e. not made up, not ultra-popular, etc. but I just don't care for the sound of it and it is mns. With Nola, I don't think of New Orleans but rather my mind goes to boys name Nolan>then sports figure Nolan Ryan. Don't know why cause I don't really like sports but this is what happens. I do like Nola a bit better than Ingrid.

Sibset question-Neighbor is expecting soon. She hasn't asked me for advice as we are not that close. However, I am wondering what all NE's would think her picks would be. Family already has children M@tthew, K3rry Jr. (nnKJ), Josephin3(nnJosie),?? they know its a girl. Any ideas? LN is close to Green.
My mind is going to things like Amelia for sound and flow but I think they will pick something more popular and with a nn. Although they might go and pick a family name of which I know nothing about because I don't know their extended family. I'll keep everyone posted as the baby is due in a few weeks. There is also another neighbor who is due the end of the year.

My neighbor is a first time mom in her early 40's. The baby was nameless for the first few days. They finally went with C0lette, nickname, Coco. I think its a nice balance of old fashioned name with a hip nickname.

I never thought of Ingrid as being harsh... hmm. I like it. Always have even though it is not my actual naming style.

My baby sister was named Melissa at birth. My then 13-mo-old sister was learning to talk and called her Min-Huh. (could NOT say S's) It soon morphed to Minnie. At more than 17, she is still Minnie.

Zoerhenne: As I was reading your note, my first thought was "Amy", so your "Amelia" seems like a good guess to me.

Regarding nicknames, I know I have written before of my dad (born 1923) and how he and his classmates loved their nicknames. He had a friend with a nn of "Trig", of whom I've been thinking since Ms. Palin was nominated.

In grade school I was given the nickname Be@nie (just like those little bean bag toys). It started out as an attempt to tease and my mother suggested I ignore it. Soon enough it signified belonging, a name "given" to me by my friends, and I wore it all through high school.

These days, 25 years since high school graduation, the only time I hear that name is from a grade school friend and her parents, grandparents, and sister. I love that they call me "Be@nie", as it reminds me they have known me since I was a girl.

J&H's mom: I have two "Boo"s in my life. One was called "B3cky Boo" as a baby, the other "Boo Bear". I feel such a sweetness when I say to them, "Hey, Boo..."

Jessica: Did you know that is how the aforementioned new mother Ms. Driver came to be "Minnie" from her given name of "Amelia"?

Years ago when I first read that, I thought, "Oh, too bad" because I loved the old-fashioned charm of Amelia. Now that Amelia is so darned popular I am taken with Minnie's fresh, sparky sound.

I've got a friend whose only daughter (of 4 kids) is Sissy, and another whose only daughter (of 9 kids) is Missy. :)

S- thanks so much for those wonderful international names. I love them because they have a pedigree rather than being kre8ive. I love the name Xenia /Ksenia. I know an amazingly 'out there' Ksenia from the former Yugoslavia who turned up at the coffee shop yesterday with a shaved head, a tutu and big white boots. I also have loved Irina for a long time. So romantically Russian...

I'm not sure how to pronounced Iekeliene. I have a feeling the second half is LEEN-a and that it might be Dutch.

Iza I would pronounce as EEZ-a.

Isabeli, Lovisa (like a Roman trying to spell Louisa), Valentina and Thais (presumably Thaïs)are fabulous too.

I heard about a girl named Pernilla the other day. I think that's Swedish. All of these traditional names are so rich in inspiration for me...

Those who think Ingrid is harsh (I don't), how do you feel about Inger? I have a second cousin named Inger (her sibs are Elias, goes by Eli, and Annika. I've always liked them as a sibling set, my cousin named them well!)

Beth, thanks for list. I wonder what the derivation of "Zazou" is?

The completely unrelated name for a girl, "Zsazu" (as in madcap actress Zazu Pitts) is fun also. With the "Zs" spelling I'm vaguely thinking that name is Hungarian perhaps? A "Magyar" version of Susan? For some reason that sticks in my mind from somewhere.

But Zazou for a boy is of course unrelated and from a different language altogether, presumably.

"Desmond" is another one I like. Nickname "Des" would be so cute! "Allister" is distinctive, and a nice variation on "Alexander", but I somewhat prefer Scottish spellings "Alasdair" and "Alastair", etc.

Very interesting to see what the "three and under" set is getting in the way of names...

On the nickname front, I have to admit to preferring nicknames that relate (at least tenuously!), to the original name.

I think it's because I have such a weird, mystical relationship to given names and how they shape one's image of oneself and perhaps one's destiny, in a way. Not really, ha, but on one level I do. So I want the nickname to somehow underline, enhance and reinforce the potency of the original name, maybe. Goofy!

when i read "zazou" my first thought was...lion king, haha.
great post once again!!

ps. my capcha is "vacation at." makes me want to get out of the office on such a beautiful day!

Actually, that makes me think, maybe there were some NE's down at Disney Studios. Think about it: I know many of the classics are based on real-life events (i.e. Pocahantas) and some on literature (i.e. Little Mermaid and Peter Pan), but surely some of these are simply "Imagination at work"
Nala, Jasmine, Ariel, Mulan, Anastacia, Drusilla, Arora (I think this was Sleeping Beauty's name) and so many others jsut seem magaical, IMO. Whether they are on their own, or are that way with some help from a little Disney magic, there's something just fun and, well, magical about all these, at least for me. Any thoughts?

Ugh, *just* and *magical* it's a mirical I got though school!!

Ohmigod. Miracle. I'm sorry.

I saw that some of you have shared class lists. My sister is a preschool teacher/daycare provider. She and her assistant teachers have 3 different sections of children. She teaches in the northern mid-Atlantic region of the US.

Section 1 --- Kids born 12/22/04 - 6/16/05, 6 girls & 12 boys:

- Alexis, nn Lexi
- Ariana
- Ashley
- Ayden & Xavier - twins; Xavier goes by the nn Xavie (pronounced Zayvee)
- Brody
- Cam'ron - boy (yes, with an apostrophe)
- Cameron - boy
- Caesar, nn CJ (he's Caesar III in his family; his brother is the Jamir listed in the other section my sister has)
- Daniel
- Daniel, nn Danny
- Emma
- Emma Jean
- Gerald Wayne, nn GW
- Jacob
- Keon - boy
- Payton - girl
- William

---

Section 2 --- Kids born 3/1/06 - 9/6/06, 7 girls & 4 boys:

- Abigail, nn Abby
- Addison Jeanette, nn Addy
- Allyson, nn Ally (has a sister named Abigail nn Abby, but not the one in this class)

Yes, that's an Abby, Addy & Ally in one class. Continuing...

- Brooke
- Dylan
- James
- Jamir (Caesar's brother)
- Julia
- Olivia
- Taylor - girl
- Vincent, nn Vinnie

---

Section 3 --- Kids born 3/10/06 - 11/19/06, 6 girls & 5 boys:

- Ariana
- Claire
- Donovan
- Isabella & Liliana, nn Bella & Lily - twins
- Jalen - boy
- Jamie - girl
- Justin
- Rebecca
- Tyler
- Wesley

ZaSu Pitts was named after her aunts, eliZA and SUsan, who apparently were fighting quite viciously with her mother over who the baby should be named after, and this is what poor, tired Mrs Pitts came up with as a compromise.

Coulda been worse!

Julie -- It is true that Simon Peter's given name was Simon, but Peter wasn't his nickname -- it was a new name, given to him by Jesus to signify his new role as "the rock" on which God's church would be built (Matthew 16:18). So Peter might very well have had a "rock-like" physical appearance, but that's not why he was given the name Peter. The giving of a new name to signify a change in a person's relationship with God happens other times in the Bible as well -- for example, Abram to Abraham, Sarai to Sarah, Jacob to Israel, Saul to Paul.

Back to the topic of Laura's post, I myself have one of those nicknames -- my dad has always only called me "Bloozie" or some variation of that (Blooz, Bloozer) ... it stems from a song he used to sing to me when I was a baby (he made it up, it had "blues" in the title). People who know my dad always call me Bloozie when they first meet me, and I always have to correct them and say "Kate." And dad introduces me to people as Bloozie.

I also have an Aunt Pud -- short for "pudding," which is what her dad called her when she was small. Everyone calls her Pud -- family members, friends, co-workers -- and no one knows that her real name is Loretta.

I think I'm coming around on Ingrid. I used to hate it, but it is growing on me. In fact, a good number of 'harsh' German names have been growing on me recently.

Eo, you commented up thread about liking consonants. If I remember correctly, you said a little more about that in a previous post--at least I think it was you. ;-) It seems you said something about liking consonant-rich Germanic languages when so many others these days seem to be drawn to the vowel-rich Romance languages. I've been pondering that quite a bit recently, and I've determined that I am a consonant lover who has been masquerading as a vowel lover (not that they are mutually exclusive). I have a pretty strong consonant rich history--I am 1/4 Welsh, 1/4 Austrian, and 1/2 'mixed European that has been in the US for more than 2 centuries'. Suffice it to say, I find myself liking more and more consonant heavy names, and Ingrid is one of them...

Anne-I don't care for Inger or Inga for that matter for many of the same reasons I posted above for the sound of Ingrid. I DO like Annika quite a bit though.

Cathy-The kids from section 1 seem like they could be transplanted into my dd's preschool and fit right in. The ages would be 4&5 yo.

off topic to hyz:

I'm alittle behind here as well, but I wanted to say congratulations on Minna Ivy - great name choice! And she is a cutie!

A colleague of my mother named her baby Beatrice the other day simply because time was up before they had to name her, and whilst they were trying to decide they had been calling her Baby B, their ln starts with B, now they call her Baby Bea (pronounced B). I know that techinically its a nicname related to her name but since the nn came first I thought it was worthy of a mention.

Someone a while up thread asked about nn in Britain. TBH I would think of nn such as Babe, Sissy or Buck as a completely American invention. Whilst I know people do have unrelated nicnames in this country I can't call any to mind right now. The majority of people I know go by some form of their given name, or, quite often by their surname. The people I know with the most commonly used nicnames are:

Azzy (Aaron)
Jaff (James)
Marky (Marcus)
Smiler (David)
Bugsy (Paul)
Toe (Jordan)

And I did once meet a boy who went by Cock, because of his wonky eye. I also know hundreds of people who go by the surname, or a nicname derived from their surname, such as:

Pughy
Hesh
Metsy
Butsy
Jesse
Foster

And alot of people who get called their name, plus a description, such as:

Fit Phil
Sexy Blev (Blev being short for Bleddyn)
SammySound (Sound meaning cool in Britain)
Metal Phil
Big Dave

And finally there is of course alot of people who go by pretty normal nicnames, such as:

Flick (Felicity)
Co (Courtney)
Ash (Ashley)
Shiv (Siobhan)

aswell as Mike, Matty, Rob ect

I hope this helps. And Im sorry it was quite long.

I hope this helps.

Interesting topic of nicknames at the boarding school I teach at. We are increasingly getting international students from non-European countries. Often it seems that English teachers in the home country tell the kids that they have to take "American" names, because Americans can't pronounce their birth name.

So the kids come to us with a wide variety of nicknames that mean little to them. One girl this year told us that she was given a choice of Yvette, Yolanda and Yvonne. (I'm *guessing* these sound similar to other words/names in her native Chinese).

So NEs, if you suddenly moved to another country where the languague was unrelated to yours, would you pick a new name/identity? Keep the same one and allow your new country-mates to struggle? I have to admit, I don't know what I'd choose, though at 15, I probably would have taken almost anything easy to say with an "M" sound.

woops sorry about the repeat at the end there.

Ok Im very sorry to post again so soon. But Ive just read the "New Formality" blog linked to in this blog and I think it plays a part in the differences between American and British nicnaming. Ive often heard people of this board suggest a formal name is given which nicnames can be taken from, rather than give a nicname as a name. For example I feel most people of here think of Katie as a nicname for Katherine, wheras I would most definately see it as a stand alone name. In Britain I think there is not the feeling that Katie is an unproffesional or unusual name for a grown woman that seems to be more present in America. I think this alters how Britain see's nicnames. For example I know a Libby who's real name is Elizabeth, however I don't think she would ever describe Libby as a nicname, as she much prefers it to Elizabeth, and few people know Elizabeth is her real name. If asked if she had a nicname she would probably say Libz. Simiarly Becky isn't seen as a nicname, just the logical name for someone called Rebecca, howether Bex is still not something you would automatically call someone.
Once again Im very sorry for what was basically a double post.

My son and DIL are expecting their third baby boy and have asked for my input in their naming decision. Their other sons are Christopher (4) and Alexander (1.5).

My son likes Maximus. I have some concerns about the name. First off, when I mentioned it to two other family members, their immediate response was "gluteus?" Second, the name means "Greatest" which may be a lot to 'put on' a boy who is going to be small (as both parents and brothers are). Third, Maximus is a new forename, dating to the Russell Crowe "Gladiator" hero in 2000, while their other boys' names are traditional male names. I've read that while Maximus was used by the Romans as a surname/title, it apparently was not used as a forename and that Maximilian is the traditional name that came from the word "maximus".

I've googled "baby name Maximus" and found some baby name articles with negative references to the name and/or concerns that the name easily lends itself to teasing and maybe even ridicule. Maximus isn't a well-known and well used name like Christopher and Alexander. (Both boys are called by their full first names, and I expect this boy will be too.)

I'd like to hear other NEs' impressions of Maximus. Also, do you think Maximus is a good sibling match with Christopher and Alexander? What other possible sibling names come to mind?

Thanks for any input!

Patricia,

The following names are not all my specific style, but I chose them based on their fairly common use and their length & the sound with older brothers Christopher & Alexander:

- Nicholas
- Jonathan
- Benjamin
- Zachary
- Sebastian
- Nathaniel
- Dominic

Is Maximilian an option?

You mentioned teasing potential. I did go to junior high with a nerdy Max who was, unfortunately, often referred to as "maxi pad". All names have teasing potential, though, so I wouldn't let that deter them from using a name they love.

I'd love to know your grandsons' middle names.

I cared for a family of 5 kids, and both Christopher & Alexander were in there (though Alexander was a middle name). The names used in their family, in case you're interested - Christopher Brian, Nicholas John, Joseph Alexander, and twins Matthew James & Emma Claire.

@Nicole - "I'm hesitant to give our baby a more unusual name that we know a lot of people won't like. Would that set her up to dislike her name, or view it as a hardship?"

I think that's too hard to predict really - you have no idea where the trends will go in 15+ years. I also tend to think it's part of the normal developmental stages of life to take on a nickname (like another poster's "Firefly" example), or to dislike your name for a time (or indefinitely depending on the name). The knee-jerk test I use is - if you had to re-name yourself right now, would you be comfortable with the name you're giving your child? How do you think normal, everyday people in the place you live will regard the name? Can they spell it? Pronounce it? Does it sound like any unappealing words? etc, etc.

"But, we are committed to giving a name that is a bit more unusual."

Just out of curiousity - WHY? What turns you off about using a more typical name? I guess this also would depend upon your definition of "unusual." (Not an SSA top 300 name for 2007? Not a name you've ever heard anyone use IRL?)

"Is it just inevitable that some people won't like whatever we choose?"

Yes - but why try to please everyone? It's an impossible task, really. Just try to please your child, & perhaps your immediate family, I say.

More suggestions per your request:
Juliet Lane Bertolli
Marian Lane Bertolli
Claudia Lane Bertolli
Helena (heh-LEE-nuh) Lane Bertolli
Lucia (LOO-shuh) Lane Bertolli

@Patricia - Wow, I can't believe the MIL's opinion on a name was actually solicited (smile, smile)! You must be a rare gem who respects boundaries & knows her place. ;)

Maximus does NOT work with Christopher & Alexander. Completely different styles; and the meaning is troublesome: did they save the "best" boy for last?

I agree with all of the names Cathy listed, especially Nicholas. Best wishes!

There are seven popularly venerated Saint Maximuses (Maximii?)-- and an incredible 41 on the total calendar!-- all of whom lived between the 3rd and 7th century. One, Maximus the Confessor, is one of the most revered figures in Christendom.

It is an ancient, traditional name with a rich history that should long outlast images of Russell Crowe prancing about in leather skirts.

There are several other Greco-Latin names based on the "max" roots, should you be interested, including Maxentius, Maximian, Maxim, and Maximinus. I find them a bit overreaching personally.

Patricia -- I think Chris, Alex, and Max work quite well together, but I agree that Maximus doesn't fit with Christopher and Alexander. I have a friend whose son is Max (from Maxwell). Not sure they'd consider that if Maximus is more to their liking, but I would second Maximilian, which feels like a middle ground between Maximus and Maxwell.

Otherwise, I think Cathy's suggestions are all great possibilities.

Nicole-I also thought I'd toss out Sela.
I suppose Nola might remind someof New Orleans.
We're way on the other side of the country, so it would never occur to me.

Patricia-Maximus reminds me of gluteus maximums and also of the men's magazine-neither great associations; however I have a far less "classical," background than others on this site. I actually prefer just Max to any of the longer forms of the name. I do think it pairs well his brother's names.

Class Lists:
Here are the names for 3's. I'll post others when I have more time.

Wyatt
Ian
Helaena
Logan
Cameron
Kyra
Jacob
Kyra
Elijah (Eli)
Bryce (f)
Abby
Ryker
Samuel
Henry
Hannah
Abigail

Ugh! Sorry for all the typos in that post.
Laura-Can we get an edit function?

Patricia -- My first response to Christopher, Alexander, and Maximus was "Huh?", which was followed by "Gluteus? Hmmm". But then, in addition to being an NE, I am also an AE (an Anatomy Enthusiast), so my opinion could be a bit biased. I don't dislike the name; I just don't think the 3 names make sense together.

I agree with you that Maximus seems out of place because it is a 'new' name in American naming traditions. As you said, it first appeared on the SSA charts in 2000 and is currently hovering at 323. On the other hand, Christopher has never been lower than 376 in the last 130 years, and has been in the top 10 since 1967. And Alexander has never dipped below 233, and has been in the top 25 since 1992.

So stylewise, it seems that Nicholas might be a better match. Like Christopher and Alexander, it is a name with Greek origins that has a long history of popularity and it has been in the top 25 for the last 30 years. On top of that, it gives them the 'hard c' sound that ties it to the other 2 names. JMHO.

Patricia -- My first response to Christopher, Alexander, and Maximus was "Huh?", which was followed by "Gluteus? Hmmm". But then, in addition to being an NE, I am also an AE (an Anatomy Enthusiast), so my opinion could be a bit biased. I don't dislike the name; I just don't think the 3 names make sense together.

I agree with you that Maximus seems out of place because it is a 'new' name in American naming traditions. As you said, it first appeared on the SSA charts in 2000 and is currently hovering at 323. On the other hand, Christopher has never been lower than 376 in the last 130 years, and has been in the top 10 since 1967. And Alexander has never dipped below 233, and has been in the top 25 since 1992.

So stylewise, it seems that Nicholas might be a better match. Like Christopher and Alexander, it is a name with Greek origins that has a long history of popularity and it has been in the top 25 for the last 30 years. On top of that, it gives them the 'hard c' sound that ties it to the other 2 names. JMHO.

I know a Maximus, Maxim, Maximillian, Maxwell and just plan Max. The name Max is very very common among kids. Personally, Maximus is probably my least favorite of the group. Note that I know two fathers who were inspired by the movie Gladiator to add Maximus to the baby name list. Neither of the moms were very keen on the name though.

Please don't take offense since this is just my opinion, but I think a Grandparent's role in baby naming is to smile and support whatever name the parents happen to be considering at the time. Feel free to use this board to vent about name choices (as you have above); however, I wouldn't say anything about your doubts to the parents' faces (or obviously to other relatives). Of course, if the parent says to you "Do you think Maximus would cause a lot of teasing?", then you're off the hook. But if the parent says, "What do you think of Maximus?", I would still say something like "I'm not sure.... What other names are you considering?"

I've read dozens of posts from Moms whose feelings were really hurt by comments from Grandparents on beloved names. Moms often incorrectly interpret the comment as "I won't love your child as much if you name him Bozo." Of course, that's not true, but you know how pregnant moms are!

and another nickname that fits here. the new work-study student in my office told me to call him "Bugs, as in Bugs Bunny." his real name is something like Lamar.

I'm a little behind the thread, but Nicole, I'm on the Ingrid is great side! I have a close friend whose middle name is Ingrid and I've always liked it. Greta seems harsher to me and Inga gets stuck in the back of my throat a little, but I think Ingrid would be nice. I also agree with the posters who were saying that when people meet your daughter Ingrid will sound much nicer than when they just hear about it.

For the Max discussion I'm definitely not a big fan of Maximus, even though it has a long history it just sounds like too much for me. My favorite Max- name is Maxwell by far. These are just my personal opinions though!

Some trad nicknames in England are just odd. For example, sometimes a male with the last name Clark is called Nobby. I had no idea why, but wikipedia has some ideas: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobby .
I definitely distinguish between a nickname such as Nobby and a diminutive such as Becky for Rebecca. Makes life richer!

I enjoyed the question posed by Megan W. "So NEs, if you suddenly moved to another country where the language was unrelated to yours, would you pick a new name/identity? Keep the same one and allow your new country-mates to struggle?"

This is tough because it would depend completely on the country and language. Elizabeth has variants in most Indo-European languages, so I would probably go by one of those if the people I was around couldn't pronounce my original name. I'm not sure what I'd do if I moved to a country with no Elizabeth equivalent! Lame answer, but it brings me to a funny story: A friend's husband has to travel to China frequently for work. While he is stateside, he often corresponds with his Chinese colleagues, most of whom have taken "American" names for just the reason you mention. One of these colleagues calls himself "Peter Pan", which Jim finds difficult to take seriously (he's not sure if Mr. Pan realizes he is making a literary allusion or not). The other surprise was when he met a colleague he'd known through email as "Sandra"--Sandra turned out to be a man! Sandra's English wasn't very good, but Jim hadn't realized the degree to which this lack of fluency extended.

I also find Megan W.'s question interesting... My first thought was that I would go by that language's equivalent, e.g. Lucia in Italy and Spain, the reason being that it might help me feel more at home and as if I "belonged" there. It could help to subtly give the message to others that I was keen to be a part of things. I don't think I'd like my name to be a foreign word to people. But then, might they be glad to hear and to use an "exotic" foreign name? Would I be losing something of myself? And, outside of European languages, I would lose the link with my name totally; the new name would have to be based on sound alone.

Or would it? Perhaps it would be interesting to pick an alias with the same meaning - so, for me, "light". Or perhaps I could pay homage to a person or character I admired from that language. This discussion reminds me of choosing a "German name" at school - and in that situation, I just picked the one I liked best - Katrin!

Patricia-I definitely agree with the other posters and think Cathy is right on target. Maximus doesn't quite match the other two. Maxwell comes a little closer and is definitely more my style. I like the choices of Nicholas, Benjamin and Zachary. May I also suggest Gregory, Theodore, Jeffrey, Lucas, William, Michael, and Matthew.

BTW, I love the nn Firefly! It is SOOO cute!
If I were going to a foreign country, I would either A)take a name with a close sound approximation to my given name or B)choose something in that language that meant the same as my given name.

Cathy, my grandsons' full names are Christopher Andrew and Alexander Michael. I like all the names you suggested and most would work, except Jonathan: we already have a Jonathan in the family (grandson #10, born in April).

Carly wrote: Wow, I can't believe the MIL's opinion on a name was actually solicited (smile, smile)! You must be a rare gem who respects boundaries & knows her place. ;)

I'm not sure how to respond to that -- except to say that my adult children know I'm a NE who has 'studied' names for many, many years and respect my input about them. :) Too, it's my son who asked me for some input. His wife grew up in another country -- Spanish speaking -- and does not have the same frame of reference for English language names as my son does, so a lot of the name suggestions have come from him. And they've decided to use English names as their last name is English. Last time around they did plan to use the maternal grandfather's name Cesar (say-ZAR) as the middle name, but both grandparents on that side said not to because they didn't think it went well with the baby's last name.

Nicholas would probably be my choice, but of course this is their decision to make.

Carly, you asked why we want to give our girl a less typical name. I think it's just because my husband and I each had very popular names for the years in which we were born, and might have preferred something more unusual if we had the choice (hubby is actually more sensitive about this than I am, as he considers his name to not only be very popular, but also the epitome of 1960's Southern California beach culture--I think he would have been okay with a more popular name had he felt it was more classic in style). I don't have any hard and fast rules about name rankings; we're just trying to avoid names that look like they'll be at the top of the ranks in the next couple of years (Julia is an example of a name that I love, but just seems to me like it will be near the top ten soon). And, we're avoiding names that already show up in multiples around our neighborhood.
I do use your "Would I want this name" test, and this is one of the issues I run into with Ingrid: I just don't know. I would love to have the name now, but what about during my self-conscious teen years? I also employ the "Starbucks" test--will she be able to give this name to the barista without having to repeat it or spell it? I think Ingrid passes here.
Thanks also for your name suggestions! I do like Juliet, and hubby is a fan of Mary, so maybe he would like Marian.
For those playing along at home, I think we have four/five folks in the "Ingrid is a bit harsh" camp, and about 11 in the "Ingrid is great" camp.

I guess I'm in the minority here. I think Maximus works with Alexander and Christopher. It's not an obvious choice, but I can see three brothers with that name.

Patricia, do you know if your son is planning on having more children? I ask only because, the more kids, the more likely Maximus will end up fitting in the spectrum.

Jennifer wrote: There are seven popularly venerated Saint Maximuses (Maximii?)-- and an incredible 41 on the total calendar!-- all of whom lived between the 3rd and 7th century. One, Maximus the Confessor, is one of the most revered figures in Christendom.

Jennifer, thanks for that information. I had only come across 3 saints named Maximus and had the impression that Maximus the Confessor was the "greatest" of them all. But was his first name, at birth, actually Maximus???

According to Cleveland K. Evans' name book, Maximus was the title the Romans bestowed on their great warriors and also a Roman family name. So I'm wondering if the saints by that name were christened Maximus or if that was either a family name or title for them.

It appears that Maximus as a first name is not a usual name in Italy, and that the use of Maximus as a first name anywhere is very recent.

Does anyone have information that contradicts this?

At any rate, if our newest grandson turns out to be Maximus, I (who love traditional names) will remember those 3rd to 7th century saints called Maximus!

Please count me as part of the "Ingrid is great!" category! I like the name a lot and not despite the sound, but almost because of it. I agree with Bill that girls names not ending in "a" or "i" or "y" are refreshing and strong. That said, I also like Juliet and Marian, two more girls' names that end in consonants. Iris is nice, too (we considered Iris before naming our daughter Juliet) but it seems flimsier than the others, somehow. The first thing that I thought of when you wrote Odessa was, indeed, Texas.

Tirzah wrote: Note that I know two fathers who were inspired by the movie Gladiator to add Maximus to the baby name list. Neither of the moms were very keen on the name though.

Exactly the case here: my son responded to my 'good news' email about three saints called Maximus with "and they were all gladiators!"

I haven't heard my DIL's take on the name. She was hoping for Isabella and may not be ready to think about boys' names yet. (Baby due end of January; gender determined a couple of weeks ago.)

Yet Another Guest wrote, "I think Maximus works with Alexander and Christopher. It's not an obvious choice, but I can see three brothers with that name."

I can too, sort of. My bigger concerns are those about the name Maximus itself (is it 'too much' and too hooked to gluteus?).

"...do you know if your son is planning on having more children? I ask only because, the more kids, the more likely Maximus will end up fitting in the spectrum.do you know if your son is planning on having more children? I ask only because, the more kids, the more likely Maximus will end up fitting in the spectrum."

This will probably be their last birth child. However, my son was adopted from Vietnam and has always wanted to adopt a little girl from there (whether or not this baby was a girl). He and his wife have talked about having a large family, including a few adopted children (similar to the family my son grew up in). I think they'll end up with at least one more child, but maybe no more boys. ????

Something that might be of interest to my fellow Name Enthusiasts: I teach freshmen (born in 1989 and 1990) at a state university in the Midwest. In one class of 25 I have...

Kerry
Ke11y
Ke1si
K@tie (short for K@therine)
Ka+e (short for Ca+herine)

A11ie (short for A1ex@ndra)
E1ise
A1ici@ (pron. uh-lee-shuh)
Avery
Amy
Anne M@rie
Aid@n

Save for the Aid@n, all of the above of women. It was a rough first few days, remembering who was who!

Oh, and that same section has three students with a name beginning with "Ja-," a male Riley, and five students with the middle name Marie. My other class has two Jordans, one boy and one girl. Most of the male students go by standard one-syllable nicknames (e.g., Ben, Will, Dan, Steve, Tim, Rob, Jake).

Ha, I remember when we all had to take French names in our French class. My friend Christine picked Marie-Christine, so I wanted to be Marie-Valerie, but my French teacher gave it the thumbs down, for reasons that weren't apparent to me. I ended up being Marie-France, which bore no