The Baby Name Wizard

DH and I faced this issue with our kids, because I kept my maiden name and wanted to incorporate it into the kids' names. My surname, however, is of the long and Italian variety, making it an unreasonable first name. So we made it the middle name for both children and, because it has also worked its way into their nicknames also, it has a strong daily presence in their lives. I think DH and I are both happy with how this turned out.

I'm all for surnames with real family history as first names. For example, I have a good friend whose maiden name is Madigan and thought that Madigan nn Maddy would be a fabulous first name for her daughter (she disagreed and went with Anna) even though I am not a big fan of the whole Madison thing.

To me family history changes names from "fake" and/or pretentious sounding to just plain great and "real" for lack of a better term. Others in this category are listed below. I think the whole ends with "s" thing can be particularly pretentious sounding when made up and perfect when based on family history.

Jones (like Sex in the City)
Brooks
Emerson
Brady/Grady (again, SITC, but this time done right)
Mason
Miller

My mother's family is very southern, although we live in the midwest, and this is a very common trend as I look back through my ancestry. Maiden names were often used as middle names, although there are several times they were first names (or the names the child went by).

My favorite example out of my family tree is an Uncle Cat, who's given first name was Castle, his mother's maiden name.

In the late 17th century, the most common name in my family was Pardon Tillinghast, Pardon being the maiden name of my greatx12-grandmother.

I'd love to name my son a traditional family name, but I can't really bring myself to use "Pardon" (and "Tillinghast" is out of the question!).

Just one historical example as a data point:

Industrialist Henry Clay Frick and his wife, Adelaide Howard Childs Frick did this with their children. Here they are in order of birth:

Childs Frick (boy)
Martha Howard Frick
Helen Clay Frick
Henry Clay Frick, Jr.

They managed to get all of the family's middle and surnames into their children's names. Unfortunately, two of their children never survived to adulthood, but their eldest son has many like-named descendants in his line.

My mother's maiden name is an Irish O' name - so it wouldn't work well - but my husband's mother's maiden name was Clay, and as we lost her last year to cancer we are considering it as a first name for a boy (should we have one) in her honor :)

My sister is hoping to convince her husband to use our maiden name (which actually IS Smith) for a boy - should they have one :)

Yes, in the Sex and the City example, Miranda gave her son her own last name, and used his father's last name as the son's first name. Clever.

I wanted to use my mother's maiden name for one of my children, but it repeats a syllable with my husband's last name so it wouldn't work.

Should I have a daughter, I will be changing my own last name. My theory is that the best matrilineal name would be the first name of my furthest back matrilineal ancestor - in my case, Sarah. So my new last name would be Sarahs-B______ (the B___ is my current married name) and my daughter would get the same hyphenated name with the idea that when she grew up and married, she would keep the Sarahs part and change the hyphenated part to her spouse's patrilineal name. My sons and husband could hyphenate or not as they chose (my existing sons, that is, who are not currently hyphenated.)

Yes, it would be simpler to name her Sarah B_____ but (a) there already is a cousin by that name and (b) there are too many Sarahs in the world for the name to be to my taste (I prefer UNCOMMON names for given names.)

Is this a purely WASP naming tradition, or do other groups do it as well?

I ask because so far all the examples given have been fairly clearly English (or at least British) surnames--the type of surnames that are usually adopted into first names anyway. My mother's maiden name is a fairly uncommon first name (something close to Smith), but it IS used as one sometimes, and my brother has it as a mn.

But I can't imagine anyone giving my MIL's very Russian maiden name as a first name.

Why not, though?

What's wrong with Sarkozy Jones, Giacometti Miller, O'Leary Singh, Kurosawa Wilson and Kureishi Garcia?

I don't know anyone who bestowed a maiden name as a fn, but I know people who have integrated two surnames.

My cousin's kids have two mns, the second of which is her maiden name. I have friends whose first son has his dad's surname as his second mn and shares his mom's surname. Their second son has mom's surname as his second mn and shares his dad's surname. And I know a couple who made an amalgam of their surnames for their son (they kept their original surnames).

My maiden name's first syllable is a homophone of my husband's surname so I both opted to change my surname and to leave it out of any kids' names. It sounds too weird to combine them, even in a mn capacity.

@RB - I've only seen it done "right" in the WASP-y sense, as part of a time-honored, real family tradition. The only thing wrong with a "Sarkozy Jones" per your example is that it just does not sound as pleasing to the ear as the names that yet another Jenny mentioned (@1:15pm).

The best names honor ancestors/loved ones AND sound great AND avoid ridicule towards the child.

What I thought was interesting about the list Laura gave was how similar names like "Millard" and "Fillmore" are in terms of sound (same with "Strom" and "Thurmond" although to a lesser degree).
Knowing that these are the two last names of the parents -- I wonder if that whole dennis/dentist rule applies...were they drawn to eachother because of some (subconscious) perceived similarity?

Doesn't work for people like me who have a common boy's name as a surname - at least it doesn't work if you have a daughter first.
I have friends who combined the surnames Goldman and Goldberg using one as the ln and one as the mn.

Well here in NC the maiden name a given name tradition is alive and well. For girls, you will frequently hear it as a double name. The pattern is, you give a fairly simple fn like Mary or Anne and pair it with mom's maiden name and then call the girl both - I personally have known girls/women called: 4nn Henly, J4ne Barrett, M4ry Garner, Mary Hampton, etc. etc.

I also know a little Sophie Thomas so a ln name that is typically a male fn can be used this way.

Plus, I know people/children named Darden, Davis, Sims, Latham - those are all girls). In fact, I think I know more girls named this way than boys. The only boys that immediately come to mind for me are: Wyatt, Sterling, Bishop (the last two are siblings), and there was a Smith in my son's preschool class a couple of years ago.

"Sarkozy Jones" with a nn of Star might work. Yes, us non-WASPs are at a bit of a disadvantage in the fn surname category.

Jewish surnames....Wasn't there a comment a while back about Cohen being part of the "n" trend in some parts? Rosen could work too, especially for a girly I think with the nn Rosie. Levine about to take off? Levi is on the up swing....

Or Goldberg/Goldman with the nn Goldie, nope, that's pushing it!

My grandfather's family was definitely a part of this tradition he and his twin born around the turn of the century were Millar and Murray as fn's. I don't remember how far back the two were as surnames in the family, but it wasn't very far.

Love it! This is my plan if I were to have a girl (not that I'm pregnant) - but my maiden name is Kennedy, which would make for a very cute girl name. Kennedy is a good WASP-y name, so I can see the point here. I also happen to know a female Deane, named after her mother's maiden name - that one is a little more unusual, but it fits perfectly with her personality!

One alternative to the hyphenated last name problem is to do an intersection of last names. For example, Stanely Grunbaum and Lisa Tannenbaum are much more likely to be happy with Jacob Baum rather than Jacob Tannenbaum-Grunbaum. It doesn't always work and in some cases of course would give an empty last name, but it is something I've known happen at least once. And it helps mitigate the problem of two hypenated last name people having to either prune the last name or have an absurdly long last name for their own child.

Kennedy is, famously, an Irish Catholic name, not a WASP name--so you've hit upon another ethnic thread that does this with great social acceptance. Irish surnames are so widely used for first names at this moment that it's rare (and refreshing) to discover there's actually a family connection involved.

My kids don't have my surname, but they have full names from my grandmother's family as their fn/mn--the full names of people I grew up knowing stories about, whose house was my house, whose photos and bibles and letters I'm caring for now so my daughter can have those stories too.

My son's mn is sometimes seen as a fn--it would even fit into the dreaded -en trend, heavens--but my daughter's is a rarer Scottish surname that wouldn't likely ever become a fn candidate. Still, if she ever wants a very striking and androgynous pen-name, it's there for her.

My maiden name is Scott, so it wasn't a big jump to name my son Cameron Scott. He has my husband's last name. My paternal aunt named her son Scott as well. My mother's maiden name is Whitton which I would like to use in the future
but I'm afraid of dim-wit, etc. What do you think?

I think Whitton would work. Whit is a great nn. He might at some point get called a dim-wit, but I don't think it would be a huge problem. I think that kids outgrow using those kinds of incults. I once taught a high school aged boy named Cooper who told me that throughout elem. school he was called Cooper Pooper, but as a teenager he liked his name and no one called him that anymore.

I also used to be friends with a girl whose mn was Scotte (pronounced Scott) who went exclusively by the name Scottie.

I like Sarkozy Jones, actually!

I've considered doing this for a boy. My maiden name is Kimball, and my grandfather went by that as his first name (though it was his surname, of course). I always thought it sounded cool. There's a writer named Kimball Hastings that pulls it off, too. Does anyone know if this is a WASP name? (I'm not sure of my lineage on that side of the family)...

I just came across something interesting-- listed below are the names and ages for the pictures posted for the 2008 annual photo contest on a parenting website (I put in b/g where I thought it was useful and judged as best I could based on the clothes and props in the picture):

Andrew, 10 months
Elizabeth, 10 years
Lincoln, 15 months (b)
Madison, 3 years (g)
Anna, 16 months
Addison, 9 months (g)
Olivia and Jackson, 5 & 7 years
Carter, 3 years
Sofia, 23 months
Justin, 1 year
Devyn, 1 (g)
Jocelyn, 3 1/2
Grayson, 7 months
Amelia, 3 years
Dhriti, 1 (g)
Reese, 3 1/2 (g)
Delaney, 18 months (g)
Laura, 3 years
Isabella, 4 years
Chloe, 5 months
Natasha, 6 months
Claire, 8 months

This list makes me quite sure that the NEs on this blog know what's what! It seems like so many of the styles we discuss are represented. Most interesting in relation to our discussions I think are Delaney, Grayson and Devyn...

Guest: I love the name Whit for a boy! Maybe Whitney nn Whit instead?

The maidennames-as-firstnames tradition is also alive and well in Scotland, though I feel it's associated more with an older generation. I have known middle-aged men with names like Wilson, Muir and Niven, among others. Now that I think about it, it also seems like quite a middle class tradition.

Of course some surnames have crossed over completely (my own brothers are Ross and Grant, for example)and are now just as acceptable as first names. As such, I'm not fussy about family connections - there are too many names that are somewhere in the middle of the crossover process. And to be honest, the surname trend gives us even more variety so I rather like it!

On a side note, my boyfriend and his friends all call one another by their surnames - partly because he and his three best pals at school were all called Alan (!), but loads of his other friends do too.

@janet - i love the name Whit for a boy. Just Whit, though. Not as a nickname for Whitman, Whitney, etc. I know of 2 30-something men in Atlanta by the name Whit.

RB- I see *nothing* wrong with those names. It doesn't bother me at all to use surnames-as-firsts with no familial connection. Just the same as it doesn't bother me to use fn/mn with no connection. I think many surnames make the most interesting firsts.

This is a great topic, as it was something very very important to me upon naming my kids a couple years ago. We gave them two last names, not hyphenated, but two seperate ones.
For example, using fictional last names, my son is Douglas Jones Smith.

It allows my son to go through every day life with just my last name, i.e., his homework will say Douglas Smith, and only use both on legal documents, which also saves us from any legal confusing involving my husband's last name.

It did, however, leave the idea of a middle name in the dust, as we felt four separate names would just be overkill.

It turned out to be a great decision, and I'm happy with it.

With the discussion about surnames being used in the first position (both family and non-family related), I'd like to mention a surname that I love as a first name for a boy (that is not a family name for me): Sullivan. Although quite a few people that I've mentioned the idea to like it, some think that it sound weird. Going off of what Rosemay said some of the other names on my list have surname origins as well but have been used as given names so much that using them up front doesn't raise eyebrows, but with Sullivan it has only recently shown up in the popularity charts as a first name and it's still pretty uncommon as such compared to its popularity as a surname (and therefore still has that "surnamey" feel when used as a first name).

@Kelly - there is a Sullivan Groff character played by Matthew Modine on the tv show "Weeds" - he's a dysfunctional real estate mogul.

Funny, I'd like the name a lot more if it had some family meaning for you, to give it some soul.

I know way too many people with names that fit this tradition (probably from being a member of the Junior League). I know girls named Dudley, Blakeney, Henley, Merril, and Hadley, all named for family connections. The brother of a friend is named MacAfee (known as Mac) for family reasons.

Kelly is my mother's maiden name, and also one of my sister's middle names--not that anyone would know it's a family name. I've always wanted to give it as a name, but only to a son, as I think that would make the family reference clearer.

If my husband and I took the final three letters (which are the same) of each of our last names to make a new one, it would be Ick. Not so cute.

I'm glad my mom didn't try this particular tradition - imagine going through life with the first name Spitzer!

My dad always said it was more common to give the mother's maiden name as a middle name, which seems like a fine idea, even if your last name is something awkward like Fishburn(or not WASPy enough, like Moskowitz). Who's going to find out unless you tell them?

Dont' forget Wuthering Heights! Isabella Linton married Heathcliffe and calls their son Linton Heathcliffe. Of course, if my last name was Linton, it would have been a lot easier!

I did use my maiden name as my son's first name. His name is my Danish maiden name, Thomsen. I had been planning on doing this for years but hesitated when I was pregnant, and it seemed every new baby I met was named Jackson. I didn't want it to seem that I was just following the Last Names First trend. Most of the time I introduce him as Thom to avoid anyone assuming this, or I follow, "His name is Thomsen," with, "It's my maiden name."

What has been difficult is picking names for our next child. I am a fan of timeless, traditional names, but it seems a little odd to have a child with a very uncommon name and have another with a top-20 name like Elizabeth or Sarah.

Coll: I love the idea of using Kelly for a boy; I am a guy with that name myself (and I like it).

Anne--what are your Danish grandmother's names? If any of them are distinctive and likeable, you'd be giving a daughter an equivalent gift to Thomsen (which is lovely, btw).

BTW, a lot of French surnames will work fine for this trend, because so many of them are saint's names. The most common surnames in France are Martin, Bernard, Dubois, Thomas, Robert, Richard, Petit, Durand, LeRoy, Moreau, Simon, Laurent, Lefebvre, Michel...

For other countries' most common surnames:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_popular_family_names

Check out the most common surnames in the Philippines, for example--if Maria de la Cruz wants to name her son Cruz Reyes, no problem, since it's already a name that works in either position.

Although I think honoring family and following tradition are lovely things to do. I was absolutely positive my ds was NOT going to receive anyone's first name other than his own Original name. My dh is from an italian background and there are as I mentioned previously many Raymond Anthony's but there are also Anthony Peter's; Peter Raymond and every other combination of distinct Italian names you can think of. To me it was just nms. On my side of the family we have many John's and also I've said in a previous post-John is just too plain for me. The last name first thing just would have been weird. A very Italian name or a very German name-not very good choices. So although my maiden name will probably die out, I will share my genealogy with my children and they will know their ancestry that way.

Both grandmothers were named Mary. Almost all of the family names are very traditional/timeless. This makes it especially hard since obviously Thomsen is a family name, and I'd hate to give one child a name so dear to me and my family and then give the other a name my husband and I just randomly picked.

It makes the decision easier when you hate your last name and are really glad that your children will get to have their Daddy's last name instead. His name would also make a much better first name than mine would.

I don't know if anyone uses the name "King" as a first name in English, (might sound pretentious and/or give the kid an apparent air of superiority,) but I do know that the Hebrew equivalent, Melech, is a rare-but-used given name.

(Heh, if I named a kid Melech King, that would be almost as bad as the Chinese trampolinist Dong Dong.)

my two favourite family names as first names are:
Anderson Cooper and Fitzwilliam Darcy
in fact Anderson's parents, Gloria Vanderbilt and Wyatt Cooper, used only last names for both their sons, Carter Vanderbilt Cooper and Anderson Hays Cooper.

but i wish my surname sounded good as a first name or a middle name, i'd never do that to my future child/children though. because i think it's an awesome idea.

My mom did something like the last name first route with my sister and me. She took her maiden name (Swedish)and lopped off the last two letters which made it a once very popular girls name and gave it to my little sister. She gave the first three letters of her maiden name to me as a middle name which is a different spelling on a fairly common girl's middle name. If you you combine my sister's first name, my middle name and my mom's last name the result is something like Katelin Kate Katelinger, but different, of course. : )

re: King. There was an early movie director (1920s-30s, I think) named King Vidor.

Anne: This may be a dumb question, but is Thomsen pronounced THOM-sen or TOM-sen?

And to go back to my first post, I don't see anything wrong with Sarkozy Jones either (I actually think it has a nice ring to it!). It seems like a good way for a family merging different ethnic backgrounds to give equal weight to each.

I guess I just haven't seen it happening, and wonder why.

Off topic, but in reference to a previous question I asked... I was talking to Roenne and Oliver's Mum today and they are still working on names for number 3. She was very grateful for your suggestions. The top two girls' names currently are Pippa or Matilda (Tilly)- I think Coll (??) suggested Pippa?

We were discussing the fact that both of her kids' names refer to trees (Rowan and Olive) and she wonders what you all think of Magnolia (Maggie) in relation to the others. I suggested Camellia, but her sister is Camille so it might be a bit close. Willow has already been vetoed by her DH. I think they are hoping for a girl! With kids that close in age, I must admit I think it would be a bit easier... (3, 2 and 0).

There were a couple of other Moms listening in and very interested, with strong opinions so I got their kids' names for you.

The first Mom is named Vera, which was the first surprise as she's a very cute and dynamic 30 something, which I hadn't associated with the name. It was a family name. Her boys are August Vade (Gus) and Andre Mose. The Andre doesn't have the accent, but is pronounced the French way.

The other Mom was way into being Unique. Her kids are Steffan Orion, Kollin Anstace and Amara Nereis. She knew all the meanings. Thought you would like to know!

Karyn, my grandfather's name was King (from his mother's side of the family). It fit him really well. I also know boys named Royal, in the same vein.

We named our son with a family name as first name, which was Wilson. (We're originally from the South but now live in the NW.) We thought we'd call him Will or Willie, but we've stuck with Wilson so far.

In my family, we also have Chandler, from my mother's side, used as first and middle names all over the place. So, I have an uncle who goes by Chan. But it's also my sister's and two of my nieces' middle names.

One of my sister's good friends has a daughter, Larkin (first name), from the last name on her mother's side of the family.

@Anne - don't know your style, but you seem wary of all trends. For Thomsen's siblings, how about Dane for a boy (honors your Danish roots); Saskia for a girl.

Re: King,

there was a late 80s/early 90s college basketball player (UNC Chapel Hill, I believe) named King Rice.

He's currently the assistant b-ball coach at Vanderbilt.

RB: It's Thomsen pronounced like the common surname Thompson without the soft "p."

Confession: we named my son (b. 1994) "Campbell," just because my DH and I liked the sound. Pretty soon after he was born, I decided it sounded pretentious, and now I lie and tell people "it's a family name." What I regret the most is not giving him my mother's maiden name, "McCready," as his fn., and calling him Mac. I have no idea what I was thinking; maybe it was hormones?

And, oh, yeah, our congressman's eight-year-old son's name is King. (It's a family name, but I always thought it was a little weird, given his father's profession...)

To add to the congressman's son named King, it's funny b/c my grandfather, King, was also involved in politics. He was a state legislator for years and years. And my grandfather on the other side, last name Major, was a major in the US Army in World War II (Major Major, kind of like in Catch 22). Maybe more of that Dennis/dentist stuff.

As an American married to a Spaniard (and living in Spain), there is no option about surnames here. Everyone has 2. Subsequent children have Father's 1stLN + Mother's 1stLN. For example, the children of Juan García Rodríguez and María Sánchez Rubio would automatically have the surname(s) García Sánchez. My future children, then, will have the ever-so harmonious surname combination of my Scottish surname and my husband's unusual Spanish surname. Think MacDougall-Naranjas. Lovely. ;-)

I was given my mother's last name (technically her "maiden" but she never changed it) as a middle name and it traumatized me...

My friends all had deliciously girly middle names, and when we would play fairy princesses used them as their "fairy names." I would run off crying and they'd have to drag me back and let me choose an "honorary middle name." In fact this may be where my naming obssession all began...

At any rate, while I think mother's maiden as a first or middle name may be fine for boys, and as an adult have taken my maiden last as my middle name, I give all my children wonderful middle names that are FIRST names because I was so traumatized as a kid. (My daughters, so far, are Emma Rose, Bridget Niamh, and Margaret Nancy, respectively.)

Valerie, while I was decidedly in favor of Magnolia as the sister for Lucy, somehow I don't think it works as well with Roenne and Oliver. I think the all-trees all-the-time approach is too themey. This is entirely a reaction to the way it fits with the other names...on its own I love Magnolia. And I don't think it would be a *bad* choice, just not my first. But it's such a striking, unusual, and clearly floral name, that it hits you over the head with the theminess in context with the other two. Of the names you suggested, I agree that Camellia flows best with the other children's names. In some intangible way that I can't quite describe it matches best.

I like Matilday/Tilly and Pippa better for this sib set.

Valerie -- I agree with Coll. Pippa or Matilda (nn Tilly) sounds best with Roenne and Oliver to me. Would they use Philippa as the formal form to get Pippa as the nn?

Valerie-Would your friend care for Briony? Or some other flower name that is , well "not so flowery"? Like Coll, I agree that Magnolia doesn't quite "match" Rowan and Oliver but goes better with Lucy. Picking between Matilda and Pippa (while neither are quite my style) I would have to go with Matilda as "matching" better.

Good topic today. Some of you may remember that I went on and on about what to do w/my name here. In the end, our son has both of our last names + a middle name b/c when we went for Edison as the first name it was 3 surnames. Recently I googled Edison Owen (fn/mn) and realized that Owen is frequently a last name too.

I can't seem to avoid a trend even when I want to.

My daughter only has her father's last name officially but if you ask her she has both. And I think its great. I might see if I can officially change it actually, as it connects us all as a family. although her nose clearly identifies me as her mom!

my last name is a very traditional British 'worker' name but its ridiculous as a first name. Laura is right, not all last names work as first names.

btw--I agree with whoever else was in
NC--maiden names as first names are very popular here. Often among students I find that even if it's the middle name they'll use it as a first name. This is especially true among the girls.

I'm due on Friday and am nearly set on a name for DS #2 - Theodore, with a nickname of Teddy. Any thoughts on that? I go back and forth with the NN of "Theo", but think Teddy sounds better with the name of our DS #1, Henry.

Lola Jane -- I actually slightly prefer Theo and Henry to Teddy and Henry. However, either is quite nice, and Theodore is a great name. I don't think you can go wrong here; pick the one you like best (and realize your son may choose his own nn anyway once he takes an interest in such things).

Re: Theo v. Teddy, I prefer the sibling set Henry & Theo, but both nicknames are great. It's wonderful that you have his full name chosen already. The nn will come on its own as you get to know your little guy.

Newborn name from our local/newspaper birth announcements, a little girl named:

Enid

That's one I don't see or hear often.

Lola Jane, I love Teddy. I think Theo possibly goes just slightly 'better' with Henry, but it's not as if Teddy sounds remotely bad with it. It's all pretty subjective, anyway. The right nickname will just occur naturally once he is in your arms, it might be Theo, Teddy, plain Theodore, or Neddaroonie (though I rather hope not), so I wouldn't get too stressed about matching it to Henry - so many times I've heard stories about a planned nickname that never got used in the end. Whatever you end up calling him at home, you're giving him a great start with the full name Theodore (which does sound great with Henry!). Best of luck!

In the upper classes of New Orleans, children are always given a suitable baptismal name like Anne, Mary, Catherine, James, Philip, John, etc., a family surname, and father's last name, and the call name is almost always the family surname as middle name. This is true for both the "American" Protestants and the French Catholics. This custom makes it very easy to see who is related to whom--if one cares--and the "hereditary aristocracy" of New Orleans care very much.

My son and daughter-in-law have announced their solution to the "whose last name" dilemma. They plan to give each child (if and when they have any) a unique (well, unique within the family) surname chosen from various surnames on the family trees on both sides. I don't think this is the best idea I ever heard, but of course my opinion is not relevant.

When I was pregnant, the name I chose (and used) for a son was simply the first names of his deceased grandfathers. At the time I was pregnant my mother was deceased, but my mother-in-law was still alive. So the name I picked for a girl was my mother's middle name (Eleanor) and my mother-in-law's maiden name (Tuckwood). Since my mother-in-law was living I would not have used her given name which was Dorothy. So a daughter would have been Eleanor Tuckwood (dirt-common surname of no particular ethnicity). I was planning to call her Nell, but if I were a born southerner, no doubt I would have called her Tuckwood, albeit that her little or not-so-little schoolmates would no doubt have called her Friar Tuck or maybe something much more unfortunate that rhymes.

Enid is totally NMS but to each there own! It got me thinking about some another names however. If you reverse Enid you get Dine which made me put an accent on the "e" for Din-AY which in turn made me think of Dineen. I knew a girl in college with that name. Is the -een thing ready for a comeback? I so like those kind of names Colleen, Kathleen, etc.

Enid to me screams hipster name. It will probably surge in about fifteen years, but I doubt that it will get higher than 400 on the charts.

Colleen and Kathleen seem younger to me than the other -een/-ene names -- Darlene, Charlene, Arlene, Marlene, Kaylene, Jolene, Noreen, etc. Maybe, paradoxically, this is because they're older. They've been established names so much longer than the ones that are an existing prefix with -een added, so they've already come around a few times and they're not so tied to one generation.

I don't think it's time yet for any of the -eens, older or newer, to make a comeback. In my experience, which could of course be anomalous, people named Darlene are in their 50s and 60s, and people named Colleen and Kathleen are in their 30s. Whereas the Lilas and Eleanors and Violets whose names are back in would be at least 100, were they still alive.

I can totally see the Jolie-Pitts naming a kid Enid.

Wow, Anne up above has me feeling badly with this comment: I was given my mother's last name (technically her "maiden" but she never changed it) as a middle name and it traumatized me...

because that is exactly what I did with my daughters. My last name is Howard and both my daughters have it as their middle name. My aunt did the same thing (but a different last name that is not a male first name) with my 2 female cousins who are now 10 and 14 and they don't seem to mind. A couple of people have said "How can you give them a boy's name as a middle name?", but most people don't seem to think much of it. However, I do have a friend whose middle name was her mother's maiden name, which is a fairly common first name in Italy. She hated it so much that when she married she changed her middle name not to her maiden name, but to a girl's name that she liked better. And she tried to talk me out of giving my daughters Howard as a middle name.

Did you know that the author Anne Rice's real first name is Howard? According to Wikipedia: About her unusual given name, Rice said: "My birth name is Howard Allen because apparently my mother thought it was a good idea to name me Howard. My father's name was Howard, she wanted to name me after Howard, and she thought it was a very interesting thing to do." Rice became "Anne" on her first day of school, when a nun asked her what her name was. She blurted out "Anne" immediately, and her mother, who was with her, let it go without correcting her, knowing how self-conscious her daughter was of her real name.

Enid was the alienated teen main character in the movie "Ghost World" (adapted from the comic book of the same name)--Thora Birch made it work, I thought. The more socially-conforming best friend character was Rebecca.

About Theodore/Teddy/Theo--I think Teddy's great for a little guy, as long as you're comfortable with the likelihood that he'll transition to Ted or Theo when he gets older (maybe as soon as elementary school, if he's annoyed by "Teddy Bear"). But Henry and Ted are fine as brothers, to my ear, too.

That Howard Allen story is very interesting to me because my mom's first cousin has that very name and hated it so much that he decided to go professionally by "H. Allan Lastname". He couldn't get away from the Howard altogether because the whole family calls him "Howie", but his friends call him Allan, and his wife calls him "Al", so he did have quite a bit of success with controlling his name.

My middle name is Smith, which is my mother's maiden name. I don't particularly care for it as a first name, though I have heard of people using it. I am considering Burke for my son's first name (due in JAN), it was my grandmother's maiden name. My own maiden name does not sound good as a first name to me, though there was a Real World character with it a few seasons ago. I plan to use my maiden name as my daughter's middle name, should I ever have a daughter...

Interesting that "Enid" has been coming up. I'm reading a deliciously frivolous "coffee table" book on legends of chivalry, and the romantic couple "Erec and Enide" are discussed. He was a knight at King Arthur's court.

I rather like the anomalous spellings-- and "Enide" with an "e" seems to lift the name onto that medieval "fairy-land" plane.

Another enchanting couple from the same book-- "Bradamante" (woman) and "Ruggiero" (man). Wouldn't Ruggiero today qualify as a surname-first name? I like it.

I've always liked surnames as first names, and see no reason why it should not span all ethnicities. Recently encountered a "Garcia Lastname", which I thought was distinguished.

Also, it seems a bit limiting or snobbish to say that only people with actual family connections should be entitled to surnames as first names. It's all fluid, and surnames have appealed to people throughout history. They're just identifiers, like any other name. My only wish is that people would branch out, and not stick to the same surnames over and over. There are so many great ones to pick from!

Both Canadian and American branches of my family have used family surnames as firsts and middles-- from Trennum to Wellington to Coleman to Melia to Holmes to Ritchie to Osborne to Wilkinson, and on and on. I'm not the least proprietorial and would love to see names like these abound! I also encountered the practice during my years in New Orleans, Miriam. Tulane was a rich source. I had many favorites from there, but a special fondness for "Winslow Chadwick"...

My name is actually Enid. I loathed it when I was growing up. I hated the sound of it, I hated how unusual it was, and I hated the "old lady" connotation it carried. However, now that I'm in my thirties I look at it differently. It's an ancient name from Arthurian legend, which I feel gives it a certain charm. It's Celtic, which is now high fashion. As an adult, I love having an unusual name. I think it has become a bit of a "hipster" name, especially since appearing in the above mentioned "Ghost World." I still don't like the sound, but I could see it coming back into fashion. I'm pregnant and due in October and have been thinking of naming my daughter "Vera," which has been "old ladyish" for a while now. Tastes do change rapidly. I have a sixteen year old daughter and she and her friends all think Vera is super-cool. Names do cycle.

Oh, and the other non-English surname-as-first name example that I always give-- "Schaeffer" was an arty woman's first name I encountered. Great on its own merits, or what a neat way to honor a Teutonic or Jewish heritage...

"Also, it seems a bit limiting or snobbish to say that only people with actual family connections should be entitled to surnames as first names."

Um, Eo, who are the people without "actual family connections?" Except for the rare soul who was left on the church steps and raised in an orphanage, everyone has family connections, and everyone is entitled to use family surnames (or anything else that strikes their fancy) as given names for their children...that is, everyone in the US. In some countries naming choices are regulated by law, but not in the US and not in Venezuela (known for its over the top naming practices) and not in many other countries.

We are accustomed,largely by reason of traditional naming practices, to the idea of using Anglo-Saxon, Irish, Scots, and Welsh surnames as given names, but nothing is stopping people of other backgrounds from converting family names into given names if they so choose. Few, to date, so choose, at least partly because in many cases that is not in line with their own traditional naming practices.

My tradition places great stress on recycling the given names of deceased family members, and I would never have chosen to name my child any other way. However, my child does have "actual family connections," and I could have chosen from Becker, Teitelman, Kaplan, Tuckwood, Bottomley, O'Connor, and my own maiden name which I shall not mention. I think Bottomley would make a ridiculous given name (even though it's WASP-y as they come), but that's just me. Well, I could have used the nickname Bottom :-).

More on Erec and Enide:

That was Chretien de Troyes' first known work and started the fashion for Arthurian romances. The story was originally Geraint and Enide (Welsh names), but Chretien changed the hero's name to Erec, a Breton name, which btw has nothing to do with Eric/Erik/Eirik, a north Germanic name. Enide is pronounced as Uh-NEED (the uh- represents schwa), while in my experience Enid is generally pronounced EE-nid. Those who don't care for Enid might find Enide more to their taste--or not.

Doesn't Eo mean people with connections to that particular name? As in if I pick Campbell (no connection with my family) it's a different story to if I pick Selbey - big family connection?

sdh- You might be interested to know that Burke has negative connotations in the UK. It's often spelled Berk, but sounds the same: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/berk

Eo- I think of Ruggiero as a first name already, as in the violinist Ruggiero Ricci. I wonder if it could be related to Roger. Love those Arthurian names!

Just saw in the NY Times that Carly Fiorina (former HP leader) is actually named Carleton S. Fiorina. Did a quick search to see if Carleton was s/o's maiden name and didn't find info., but did find that her given name is Cara Carleton F. Interesting.

My SIL named her daughter Bailey and said it was "boardroom appropriate," using Carly as an example. "Boardroom appropriate" is clearly a moving target these days, but I sort of disagreed and always thought Carly was diminuitive, in a negative way. Turns out, she (Carly) was often called by her first name when men were called by Mr. X.

Anyway, not sure what my point is .. oh year, Carleton -- maiden name or not?

Kelly, I actually really like Sullivan. It has a nice sound, very contemporary without being overly trendy, and it's easily nicknamed (Sully is quite cool, I think). I have no objections to surnames as first names, family connection or not - family connections admittedly make things a bit more interesting, but surnames seem to me to be a largely untapped resource! I just wish more people would branch out beyond Logan and Bailey (which are quite nice, but getting dull).

I don't have a great knowledge of my own family tree, unfortunately, but thought I'd make a list of the surnames I do know from my own and my partner's families:

Edwards
Webbe
Blackadder (honestly!! I'm so using this)
Macdonald
Dolan
Llewellyn
O'Byrne

My own surname isn't listed here, but I think some of these would make interesting first names - though maybe not to my taste!

Anyone else willing to make a list? This could be fun!

What do y'all think of the name Elinor Wren with a LN sounding like something along the lines of Carter (but not)?

Too many 'r' sounds?

Celeb baby news:

Matt Damon and wife just had their second daughter together- Gia Zavala. Their first daughter is Isabella.

Blackadder! Is there a Baldrick as well?

In my family we have:

Kelly
Costello
Revering
Norris
O'Shaughnessy

Including my husband's gives us:
Harrison
Seigel

I really like the ideas of Kelly and Harrison as first names. Harrison, however, is a definite no-go, as my husband's and future-childrens' last name ends in -dick. The teasing possibilities involved with Harry and -dick are too much for me to consider.

I think Keren summarized the thrust of Eo's remarks correctly.

This is an area where I have to admit my own non-sensical snobbishness.
While I like many surname/first names, I have this pet peeve about names like Jackson (yes, even though I have a "just Jack").
The minute I hear it's a family name, however, I totally revise my opinion.
Silly and snobby, I'm afraid!

As I mentioned, Sheperd is back in our family tree, and it's one I really like, much as it isn't for everyone. I wonder if I could really call it a "family name," though, seeing as it's quite far back in the tree.
What do you all think.....does the maiden name of a great great aunt you never knew still count?
A cousin of mine found Redmond in some branch of the family and changed it to Redmon for his son.

I love Sullivan, especially the darling nn Sully.
In fact, I tried to sell my husband on it for about ten minutes, but he wasn't in to it. The only meaning I could find for it was "dark-eyed," and since we tilt toward fair heads and blue eyes, I gave it up without much fight.

Last week I met a 12 mo old Sullivan. Makes a lovely name, imo.

So if I name one of my kids Reichelt, would y'all think me crazy?

Of the surnames I have closely available:
Hoover
Hilty
Bear
Greider
Brunk
Landis
Derstine
Beidler
Reichelt
Clemens
Gehman - so NOT using this one. pro gay-mun :(

family names (both sides but not my ln or DHs ln)

Hopkins
Wise
Essex
Maddock
Ritchie
Wilson
Rudisill
Vidovic

those are all I can think of off the top of my head. I can see using Wilson, Maddock and maybe Essex, although the last would sound awful with DH's name. I think Wise would be a great middle name (used it for my list of 18 a few months ago). and Vidovic is tempting...

but no more kids for me!

Yup, Keren, that is what I meant.

Come now, Miriam, you jest-- you can't think that I think there are people with no family connections... you are toying with me!

"Reichelt", Jessica? Exactly so! That would be a bold and interesting choice. Just what I meant by positing a richer ethnic and linguistic body of surnames to draw from-- like the aforementioned "Garcia" and "Schaeffer".

You all have some lovely and provocative off-the beaten-path candidates-- Blackadder (wow), Costello, Revering, Seigel, Clemons, Hopkins, Selbey, Vidovic, Shepherd. The thought that people would choose from such riches-- I find it almost intoxicating! (That's how much of a name fiend I am, sadly...)

Just want to reiterate, so the point doesn't get lost-- I do think that one needn't be limited to one's own known family tree when choosing surnames. To me they're pretty much all fair game, just like first names. For obvious reasons, I wouldn't pick stratospherically famous or notorious ones-- "Grimaldi", "Trump", "Rockefeller", "Windsor", "Netanyahu", "Aniston", "Schweitzer", "de Gaulle", "Nehru" or the like!

Am curious what other people think. If someone fell in love with the names you've listed- if someone HAD to "filch" a baby name Costello or Landis from your lists, would you be annoyed, or flattered?

Can anyone remember what Tea Leoni and David Duchovny named their son? I'm thinking, maybe "Kydd", or something like that? But that seems improbable. Must be another quirky surname choice...

Yeah, in fact David Duchovny's son is named Kyd Miller Duchovny.

Ooo, Enid -

I've just started fantasizing about Vera, too! And I'm actually shocked that teenagers would think it's cool. I don't even know where I got it from, but It's my latest name love affair...

AK -- I don't think there are too many Rs in Elinor Wren LN (somewhat like Carter). Most people aren't routinely called by all three names, plus I think repetitive sounds can be pleasant across a name. My daughter has a similar A sound in all three of her names, plus an R component.

Surnames (not mine or my husband's) that are in my family tree:

Brodbeck
Murdoch
De Loof
Larson
Mueller

One of these names is my father-in-law's mn and some of the others I could see using as a first or middle.

Eo -- Per your question about whether I'd be annoyed or flattered if someone chose to name their kid from my surname list, I'd generally be flattered.

I come from a bunch of totally boring WASPY last names: Cary is the one usually granted as a first or middle name, and Stone is my middle name and that of my niece. As a kid, I hated Stone and wanted a fairy-girl middle name (Marie! Annette! Christine!). Now I love it. But I definitely associate the last-name-as-first-name thing with the very, very upper crust of the Northeast, and the South, neither of which is my background. Remember in the Preppie Handbook, all those cutesy nicknames for the girls with last names as their first?

But oh my poor daughter. On her, um, sperm donor's side, we could have used 569. On her other mom's side, we had Buck and Cherry, neither of which are advisable first names. Then we had the dull ones from my side, and Cary is decidedly male. So we went with family first names for first and middle, and a god-awful hyphenated last name so her non-biological mom shares a name with her. If she grows up and wants to change her name to CherryStone 569, well, let her do the damage.

But I would steal Eleanor Tuckwood (dirt-common surname of no particular ethnicity) in a heartbeat! Or Costello, for a boy's first name (after Elvis Costello, if nothing else)! Or Landis (I knew a girl with this name in college)!

Names from my family:

Tytherleigh
Evans
Hancock
Rostron
Honisett

I think Tytherleigh and Honisett make nice girls' names, but I don't think much of the others. Anyone is welcome to them all, if they appeal.

My own maiden name is a very traditional boys' name, but both it and my husband's ln are one syllable which to me makes the whole name too short and choppy.

Oh, and another amy, Wilson, for a boy, is such a refreshing thought after the endless parade of Williams (which was our boy name, so I'm not being dismissive). Wilson, nn Will. Love it. It has a Jackson-y vibe without being a fake -son name. Larson nn Lars, also cute.

De Loof, nn Loofah, maybe not so much.

Lola Jane: We have a two-year-old Theodore, called Teddy. I love his name, and his nickname. It's traditional and recognizable, yet I don't know any other little boys named Teddy. My son is unique among all the Logans, Jadens, etc. We never use "Ted" (although I know he might in the future), but we often call him "T." I have absolutely no regrets about Theodore/Teddy. Go for it!

Oh, and guess what. I had my second baby in February. If she had been a boy, her name would have been Henry! I like your taste! (We named her Phoebe Katherine).

Sadly, I am not able to go very far back in my family - at least not without doing some research - but the last names I do know from my family are:

- Diamond
- Snyder/Schneider/Schneiderman (there were a lot of tailors in my family)
- Feifermacher

Methinks not.

However, my boyfriend's family, not being from Eastern Europe, and with records going back to the 1460s, has many more names to choose from... over 50... But I still don't think I would ever use the majority of these names for my children. Here is a selection:

***
1) Names that are already thought of as first names (or contain a name):
- Oliver
- Warren
- Douglas
- Evans
- Clark
- Phillips
- Leonard

***
2) Names I know have been used as first names:
- Damon
- Jefferson
- Tucker
- Robertson (eg. Robertson Davies)
- Baxter
- McKenzie (heh)
- Fraser

***
3) Yeah, I can see it happening:
- Healy
- Lindon
- Byerlay
- Robbins
- Garnett
- Raily/Ralley/Realy (depending on the mood of the scribe)

***
4) I would never do that to a child:
- Cox
- Burns
- Wiswall/Wiswell
- Newgate
- Berage
- Hinksman
- VanBlarcom
- Truefitt
- Down
- Chipps
- Sneden

Names from my family tree:

Coghlan
Hunt
Tomson
Robertson

Kampmeier
Meier
Woizeski
Graff

One side British/Irish, the other German/Polish. I would be much more likely to use the former, I think, as some of you were saying. Woizeski Brown, anyone? If I had to pick one, Hunt would be my choice. I have seen Meir as a first name. However, the surname-as-first-name trend is nms.

I know of a young woman (mid-20s) named Leith. Presumably a family name, but I don't know that for certain.

Family names are more than a little dull for me- my surname is unusable as a fn, though as a monosyllable it would hyphenate reasonably well. Others, further back, are Cameron, Craig, Knapp, Lytle, Fraser, Jewill, Winn. Fraser's the only one I'd seriously consider- there is a good solid connection there that I'd love to honour. Cameron and Craig have been done, just a little!

My mother's first name is Rosa, and her mother's Cardinali. Not very masculine! Or pleasant sounding.

Not first name...maiden name.

Just posting so I can use "Brunk de Loof" as my new screen name. Thanks to the descendants of Brunk and De Loof for their respective contributions.

On Vera--yeah, lovely name--lovely meaning--short, pretty, not cutesy, not ubiquitous, ages well, easy to say/spell, stylish V start, not automatically nicknamed (though she'd be Veruschka around some grandparents). There was a Vera in my kindergarten class (c. 1971)--among all the Michaels and Kathleens, she was an instant fascination for the embryonic NE I already was.

I see that several of you have mentioned the surnames Sullivan & Schaeffer.

My sister is a teacher, and she has had all 4 siblings from one family. The family's surname starts with an 'S' and all of the girls have the initals S.O.S. though I can't recall the one middle name. The one boy has completely different initials. Here are their names:

1 - Schaeffer O'Neal - girl
2 - Sullivan Olivia - girl
3 - Schuler O. - girl (I can't remember her middle name; her first name is pronounced 'shooler' with a soft sh- sound, NOT like the hard sch- in school)
4 - Campbell - boy (no idea what his middle name is)

I have no idea if these are family names for them or not, though I tend to doubt it. It would be surprising if they had 3 'S' surnames to use like that.

I know that they're surnames, and therefore not so much related to one gender or another, but I find it funny because of all 4 names, I think that Campbell seems the most feminine (thinking news reporter Campbell Brown), yet the boy got that name.

Re: Wilson, I know I plethora of people with this surname in their families. Several of them have used it as a middle name for their sons.

One friend has a Benjamin Wilson H________. All 3 names (first, middle, last) end in -n. They had considered Matthew Wilson, but didn't like how it ran together.

Our neighbors have 3 college-aged boys and they all have Mom's maiden name, Wilson, in the middle:

Brent Wilson S_____
Keith Wilson S_____
Zach Wilson S_____

Keith & Zach are twins. Zach's full, given name is Zach, not Zachary. I guess they liked one-syllable names for their boys.

Yeah, Eo, I was just pulling your chain a bit, responding to what you actually wrote, not what you clearly meant.

I don't care for the trend of using random surnames for first names. Because of my heritage, I am all about naming children after (deceased) family members, and under certain circumstances that might include using a family surname as, say, a middle name. I thought about giving my son my father's whole name (first and last) followed by his father's dirt common surname (which I have also used since I married, even after my divorce). However, realizing that this was going to be a one kiddo family, I didn't think it was fair to cut out his paternal side. So he has the first names of both his grandfathers, fair enough.

Frankly, I don't even understand why people want to appropriate other people's surnames for their children. I do understand naming a child with the surname of some very highly admired person--like all the Depression babies who were named Roosevelt. So those who want to use, say, Mandela, I say go for it. But just the name of some neighbor down the street or whatever, I don't understand.

Surnames from my family tree, with my maiden name excluded:
- Hoy
- Curran
- Becker
- Mullen
- Czeck
- Curry
- Humphreys
- Anderson
- Hamer
- Doerr
- Spratford
- Winfield
- Hardy
- Kilbaine
- Grumbacher
- Tilton
- Kleiser
- Flocken
- Noll
- Bollinger
- Widder
- Lain
- Nais
- Flickinger
- Hammacker

Surnames from my husband's family tree, with our married name excluded:
- Hilbert
- Silla
- Sutter
- Beyer
- Vila
- Gutierrez

Surnames is available to me but don't think I would use them...

Castle
Bingham
Pacillas

Hmmm..That is all I can think of at this late hour.

Please keep in mind that even "popular" surnames might have a family connection. We named our daughter Addison because that's my husband's middle name (and he got it from his grandfather's name), not knowing of the tv show connection at the time. She also received my grandmother's name as a middle name, as we wanted family names from both sides. I'm always pointing out that "it's a family name!" even though I feel like a broken record. Why do I point that out? People seem relieved that we chose it for a familial reason versus popular culture, and it keeps the conversation going.

I just don't see the point of naming a child after the paternal relations, such as the grandfather, if you have changed your maiden name upon marriage... I figured when naming my children that they already had a name (their surname) from my husband's side of the family, so that was "tribute" enough. And I didn't worry too much about my maiden name being carried on into eternity because I have a brother who will 'keep' his name upon marriage. And I wouldn't have considered my mother's maiden name (Salzseider) either, because she had brothers too. My good friend who came from a family of 5 daughters used her maiden name as an extra middle name for her children so that her beloved dad got a mention, which I thought was lovely.

And all of my family names: Larsen, Osterreng, Pedersen, Brandt, just didn't seem to migrate as well as I did from the American midwest to suburban Sydney

Must tell you a great baby name announcement in the Daily Telegraph today: Phelps, to Anna and Rupert a daughter Tatiana Xanthe Perugia Lettice.

What a fun topic!

Some of my choice family names:

Yes:
Carroll
Ellez

Maybe:
Swope

No:
Bortis

Miriam-I'm still a little disappointed I didn't get to use Mandela.

re: Wilson It was a maiden name used as a middle name for a son several generations back. My great^3 Grandfather couldn't stand his first name (Abraham) so decided to reverse his names and went by Wilson, nn Wils. I think its pretty cool.

I love the name William but I couldn't believe how many Williams there were in my classes last year so I decided to avoid all similar names.

AK-- I really like Elinor Wren ln.

I like when parents use family surnames drawn from their own families, because I tend to like most non-random, meaningful, serious naming practices. Maybe I just get some irrational assurance that the parents are taking their work seriously if they craft a name with multiple obvious advantages to their kid. (Irrational, because such parents really don't show any more parental sturdiness than others, I'm sure.)

But it's also a fantasy to hope that everyone comes from a family they SHOULD honor. If you came from a long line of cruel men, for example, then for heaven's sake leave their names in the past--don't honor them. Break that connection all you can. And if your sixth grade teacher Miss Turner or your neighbor Mrs. Vincent was an important influence at a crossroads in your life, go ahead and use her surname instead.

And here's a bit of advice: Nobody needs to "understand" your naming choices, except your kid--not grandparents, not neighbors, not teachers. Constantly explaining the name you chose doesn't communicate a sense of security and confidence to them OR to your kid. Wait to be asked, and don't let yourself sound desperate for approval or admiration--you don't need it! Your kid, your choice, period.

Brunk-Well said in that last post!

My surnames to use would be:
Fant
Ruedemann
Gawricki
Kuba
Wickline
Zavolta
It is nms to use surnames but I would maybe use fn's that I have in my ancestry with the exceptions I have mentioned in other posts.

Vera was my grandmother's name.
Elinor Wren sounds okay to my ears also.

Sue-Can I go back to your name choices for a moment? (By the way, it is weird how some people/ideas/naming choices grab you and don't let go and others do not). Anyway, I was up thinking of your situation with how you liked Paige and how you needed a "soft" name for your new one. I wondered why we didn't think of any long E names and so came up with some along with some P names to match the Paige idea. Here they are:
Peter; Parker; Phillip; Elijah/Eli; Keegan; Keith; Steven; Dean; Theo; Reed (which we've mentioned before); Neil; Heath. Those are all I can think of now. I think Eli/Elijah would match.

I have a close friend who was given her mothers maiden name as her second middle name (her mother still uses this as her surname) meaning her name is Roisin Lowri Usher ______ with a common Irish surname. At the moment this works fine as both her fn and sn are irish and work together well. However her boyfriend has an itallian sounding De _____ sn. She is now concerned she is going to end up with a long and very multi-cultural sounding name which she thinks would sound better without the 2nd mn.

There is a simular situation in my family. My cousin was named Jonathon Richard Spence _______
(common English surname) with Spence being his (and my) mothers maiden name. He gave his daughter Spence as a 2nd mn, meaning she is called Isabella Siranoosh Spence _______ (Siranoosh being an Armenian name) like my friend this means there is a liklihood of her having a very complicated name indeed in the long run.

Surnames in my family (that I can think of):
Oakley
Lawless
Geary (love this!)
Ferguson
Lewis
Roblee (already used -- my son's mn)
Roohan
Sweeny
Casey

And my husband's (that I know of):
Rasmussen

I think my family's surnames have a lot of great potential -- Oakley, Lawless, Geary, and Ferguson (or even just Fergus) are my favorites ... and really, I don't hate any of them!

Re: people without actual family connections, left on doorsteps and raised in orphanages -- that was my grandmother ... but she had a note attached to her giving her mother's fn and ln (if the note is to be believed), and the baby's (my grandmother's) fn and ln -- different ln than her mother.

The note, written by her mom, said the mom would come back for the baby in a year, but she never came. My grandmother was eventually adopted (when she was 2), but it's her original family names -- Lewis (her ln, as given on the note) and Ferguson (her mother's ln, as given on the note) -- that I'd want to use for my own kids.

(On a different note -- if anyone knows of a Mary Ferguson who gave birth to an Anne/Anna Lewis at the turn of the twentieth century and left her on a doorstep of a foundling home -- let me know!!! We've been trying to find out info about my grandmother's birth family for years!)

I can't believe this was Laura's topic this week, since I was just commenting the other day how many children I have met recently who have their mother's maiden name as their first names - there was a Turner (b), a Shane (g) and two Hudsons (b).

Lola Jane, I love Theodore nn Teddy and I prefer Teddy to Theo, although Theo is a great nn too. A friend of mine named her son Theodore nn Teddy 11 years ago and I think it is so distinguished. Her daughter's name is Claudia (age 15) and I think her taste proved very classic.

Eo - you mentioned Osborne as a family name. Are you the one who said that is your maiden name and you considered it for your son? I love Osborne for a boy. I would call him Ozzy. My husband is not on board.

Laura P. - I love your "confession" about your son Campbell. You made me laugh. I really like McCready nn Mac - I have been suggesting similar things to people I know with suitable Mc- surnames in their families for years, to no avail!

Help - my friend has one daughter named Ainsley Marie. Her husband actually picked the name (she was thinking Maya but he convinced her to go with Ainsley which she now loves). I am trying to think of ideas for a girl sibling of Ainsley (potential boy is named Thompson, I think). Also she would really like to incorporate her recently deceased mother's name into a middle name somehow - mom was named Connie, which is not a nickname. I don't think my friend is wild about the name Connie, but loves her mom and really wants to honor her. My first thought for a first name
was Piper. I think it goes well with Ainsley, but it is shooting up the charts and I think maybe it loses something if it gets too popular. Does Connie sound good as a middle name? Is Connie derived from or related to any name other than Constance? Perhaps she doesn't have to use Connie itself.

Thanks!

Have we heard from hyz? Was her baby girl born? I think I may have missed something.

Hyz must be lost in a haze of sleeplessness. I hope all is well!

KRC, how old is Ainsley Marie? I seem to remember someone posting about a friend who was trying to decide between Ainsley and Maya recently. Maybe my memory is off--I thought that was just a few months ago.

Names to go with Ainsley might be Carina, Kara, Corinne, or Katelyn. They all have the same beginning sound as Connie.

It's the same person - Ainsley Marie is only 7.5 months old, but parents are ready for another as soon as they can make it happen.

I was actually thinking of something to honor Connie as a middle name and looking for another first name that matches well with Ainsley. I like the idea of Corinne. Would pronounce that Cor-IN or Cor-EEN?

that's "would YOU pronounce that ..."

KRC- As for honoring Connie, might be a bit easier if the baby is a boy- obvious choice being Connor.
For girls I'd suggest Caryn/Carin/Corinne (pronounced Car-in). Always thought it was sweet.
There's also Candace and Cadence, nms but I think close enough to honor a Connie.

I have to think about the first name Ainsley matches a bit more.

I love the name Ainsley. Our last name begins with long A so would have never worked. Corinne would sound like Cor-IN to my ears. I'm thinking to get the Cor-EEN pron. it would be spelled Corrine. Nymbler suggests many Irish/Celtic names. Some I like are: Dierdre Corinne; Brianna Corinne; Connie Eileen; Lindsay Corinne. Any combo of those would work too Corinne is a very flexible name.

Valerie - I was thinking that for a sister to Roenne and Oliver, Daphne might work. It means "laurel" in Greek. In Greek mythology she was a nymph who was turned into a laurel tree. So the tree connection is there, but less obvious.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions for Roenne and Oliver's Mum- she so appreciates them and I'm passing them all along- you guys are the best!

KRC- Here are some first names I like with Ainsley

Tamsin
Afton
Tegan
Laine
Bronwyn
Tatum

Piper is good too. I think Corrine pronounced Cor-IN is the best Connie option for a mn.

Yes, that was me, KRC. In the end, we gave it to him as his third middle name. Had it been his first, I might have nicknamed him "Ozzy/
Ozzie" as well. It would be a sentimental choice, as, since it was my Dad's surname, of course, he was called "Ozzie" sometimes as a boy. I associate it with newsboy caps and knee-pants!

BUT, another nickname that merges and sort of "telescopes" the letters in "Osborne", is "Hob". Or "Hobb" or "Hobbs". That has that throw-back Middle Ages feeling that I'm always attracted to...

Tossing out a few other names to honor a "Connie":

I love the 17th century Puritan form, "Constancy", a lovely "quality" name. For some reason seems more classically appealing than "Constance", to me at least. "Constantia" is the Latin form in use since the Middle Ages. Pronounced Kon-STAN-sha.

Another pretty Latin name, "Cornelia", has been sometimes short-formed to "Connie". (Other nicknames over time for Cornelia have been things like "Neely" or "Nell".)

hey Cathy, I have a Czeck branch of cousins, we must be related!!!!111!11!!

my ancestors' surnames that I can remember:

K0tchk0ski (my last name)
$ilc (pronounced Shilts in Slovenian)
Mihelic
Zabukovec
Tonderski
Glowacki

my cousins' family names
Kr3tch
D'4ngel0 (as in the singer)
Cihl4r (pron Sigh-ler)
W0lfe (i guess this could work, nmsaa tho)
S0mr4ck

even more tangential to me:
Br4dac (pron Braddock in English, bruh-DOTCH in Slovenian)

none of these really work as firsts as far as i'm concerned. and there aren't many surnames as firsts in my family at all (none of them, however, were born in this decade), just J4mis0n as a middle and Ch4se as a first. Those cousins are the only ones who aren't (at least nominally) Catholic.

i hope my l33tsp33k isn't too distracting.

KRC-
possible girl siblings for Ainsley (keeping in mind the middle name is a 'C')

Audrey/Aubrey
Wynne/ Quinn
Abigail
Maura
Chloe

breaking baby name news! i just read that Gwen Stefani had a baby boy today, and named him Zuma Nesta Rock Rossdale...
i don't think anyone came up with that as a sibling option for Kingston!

Zuma seems appropriate:

Place name - Beach in Malibu
Rock connection - Amazing Neil Young album (named for beach)

Everyone over at ohnotheydidn't is like "WHAT IS ZUMA OMG LIKE ZIMA?! WTF" Sigh.

Wow, Zuma. Very creative, and interesting because it's a much softer name for a boy than Kingston. Similar to a lot of other names that have getting more popular for boys, like Elijah and Jonah.

Maybe he was conceived there, a la Brooklyn.

My 2yo boy has my surname as his middle name and his dad's surname as his surname. Having read some comments above about not doing that to a girl baby, I'm thinking of going with two feminine names for our baby girl (due in two weeks!). The middle name could still be a family-ish name I guess.

Or does that show some kind of favouritism or discord between our son and our daughter?

My middle name is my mother's surname, her's is my grandma's, and my daughter's middle name is my surname. I don't think it has anything to do with gender--I am glad to have that link to my mother's family, and I can't imagine my daughter not having my name in there somewhere. I think people are doing such different things with names these days that our children won't be embarrassed if their middle names aren't Ann or Marie. I also think within a family it might be weird if one sib had that connection with mom and others didn't.
So stick with it! And congrats on your upcoming girl!