The Baby Name Wizard

To add to the congressman's son named King, it's funny b/c my grandfather, King, was also involved in politics. He was a state legislator for years and years. And my grandfather on the other side, last name Major, was a major in the US Army in World War II (Major Major, kind of like in Catch 22). Maybe more of that Dennis/dentist stuff.

As an American married to a Spaniard (and living in Spain), there is no option about surnames here. Everyone has 2. Subsequent children have Father's 1stLN + Mother's 1stLN. For example, the children of Juan García Rodríguez and María Sánchez Rubio would automatically have the surname(s) García Sánchez. My future children, then, will have the ever-so harmonious surname combination of my Scottish surname and my husband's unusual Spanish surname. Think MacDougall-Naranjas. Lovely. ;-)

I was given my mother's last name (technically her "maiden" but she never changed it) as a middle name and it traumatized me...

My friends all had deliciously girly middle names, and when we would play fairy princesses used them as their "fairy names." I would run off crying and they'd have to drag me back and let me choose an "honorary middle name." In fact this may be where my naming obssession all began...

At any rate, while I think mother's maiden as a first or middle name may be fine for boys, and as an adult have taken my maiden last as my middle name, I give all my children wonderful middle names that are FIRST names because I was so traumatized as a kid. (My daughters, so far, are Emma Rose, Bridget Niamh, and Margaret Nancy, respectively.)

Valerie, while I was decidedly in favor of Magnolia as the sister for Lucy, somehow I don't think it works as well with Roenne and Oliver. I think the all-trees all-the-time approach is too themey. This is entirely a reaction to the way it fits with the other names...on its own I love Magnolia. And I don't think it would be a *bad* choice, just not my first. But it's such a striking, unusual, and clearly floral name, that it hits you over the head with the theminess in context with the other two. Of the names you suggested, I agree that Camellia flows best with the other children's names. In some intangible way that I can't quite describe it matches best.

I like Matilday/Tilly and Pippa better for this sib set.

Valerie -- I agree with Coll. Pippa or Matilda (nn Tilly) sounds best with Roenne and Oliver to me. Would they use Philippa as the formal form to get Pippa as the nn?

Valerie-Would your friend care for Briony? Or some other flower name that is , well "not so flowery"? Like Coll, I agree that Magnolia doesn't quite "match" Rowan and Oliver but goes better with Lucy. Picking between Matilda and Pippa (while neither are quite my style) I would have to go with Matilda as "matching" better.

Good topic today. Some of you may remember that I went on and on about what to do w/my name here. In the end, our son has both of our last names + a middle name b/c when we went for Edison as the first name it was 3 surnames. Recently I googled Edison Owen (fn/mn) and realized that Owen is frequently a last name too.

I can't seem to avoid a trend even when I want to.

My daughter only has her father's last name officially but if you ask her she has both. And I think its great. I might see if I can officially change it actually, as it connects us all as a family. although her nose clearly identifies me as her mom!

my last name is a very traditional British 'worker' name but its ridiculous as a first name. Laura is right, not all last names work as first names.

btw--I agree with whoever else was in
NC--maiden names as first names are very popular here. Often among students I find that even if it's the middle name they'll use it as a first name. This is especially true among the girls.

I'm due on Friday and am nearly set on a name for DS #2 - Theodore, with a nickname of Teddy. Any thoughts on that? I go back and forth with the NN of "Theo", but think Teddy sounds better with the name of our DS #1, Henry.

Lola Jane -- I actually slightly prefer Theo and Henry to Teddy and Henry. However, either is quite nice, and Theodore is a great name. I don't think you can go wrong here; pick the one you like best (and realize your son may choose his own nn anyway once he takes an interest in such things).

Re: Theo v. Teddy, I prefer the sibling set Henry & Theo, but both nicknames are great. It's wonderful that you have his full name chosen already. The nn will come on its own as you get to know your little guy.

Newborn name from our local/newspaper birth announcements, a little girl named:

Enid

That's one I don't see or hear often.

Lola Jane, I love Teddy. I think Theo possibly goes just slightly 'better' with Henry, but it's not as if Teddy sounds remotely bad with it. It's all pretty subjective, anyway. The right nickname will just occur naturally once he is in your arms, it might be Theo, Teddy, plain Theodore, or Neddaroonie (though I rather hope not), so I wouldn't get too stressed about matching it to Henry - so many times I've heard stories about a planned nickname that never got used in the end. Whatever you end up calling him at home, you're giving him a great start with the full name Theodore (which does sound great with Henry!). Best of luck!

In the upper classes of New Orleans, children are always given a suitable baptismal name like Anne, Mary, Catherine, James, Philip, John, etc., a family surname, and father's last name, and the call name is almost always the family surname as middle name. This is true for both the "American" Protestants and the French Catholics. This custom makes it very easy to see who is related to whom--if one cares--and the "hereditary aristocracy" of New Orleans care very much.

My son and daughter-in-law have announced their solution to the "whose last name" dilemma. They plan to give each child (if and when they have any) a unique (well, unique within the family) surname chosen from various surnames on the family trees on both sides. I don't think this is the best idea I ever heard, but of course my opinion is not relevant.

When I was pregnant, the name I chose (and used) for a son was simply the first names of his deceased grandfathers. At the time I was pregnant my mother was deceased, but my mother-in-law was still alive. So the name I picked for a girl was my mother's middle name (Eleanor) and my mother-in-law's maiden name (Tuckwood). Since my mother-in-law was living I would not have used her given name which was Dorothy. So a daughter would have been Eleanor Tuckwood (dirt-common surname of no particular ethnicity). I was planning to call her Nell, but if I were a born southerner, no doubt I would have called her Tuckwood, albeit that her little or not-so-little schoolmates would no doubt have called her Friar Tuck or maybe something much more unfortunate that rhymes.

Enid is totally NMS but to each there own! It got me thinking about some another names however. If you reverse Enid you get Dine which made me put an accent on the "e" for Din-AY which in turn made me think of Dineen. I knew a girl in college with that name. Is the -een thing ready for a comeback? I so like those kind of names Colleen, Kathleen, etc.

Enid to me screams hipster name. It will probably surge in about fifteen years, but I doubt that it will get higher than 400 on the charts.

Colleen and Kathleen seem younger to me than the other -een/-ene names -- Darlene, Charlene, Arlene, Marlene, Kaylene, Jolene, Noreen, etc. Maybe, paradoxically, this is because they're older. They've been established names so much longer than the ones that are an existing prefix with -een added, so they've already come around a few times and they're not so tied to one generation.

I don't think it's time yet for any of the -eens, older or newer, to make a comeback. In my experience, which could of course be anomalous, people named Darlene are in their 50s and 60s, and people named Colleen and Kathleen are in their 30s. Whereas the Lilas and Eleanors and Violets whose names are back in would be at least 100, were they still alive.

I can totally see the Jolie-Pitts naming a kid Enid.

Wow, Anne up above has me feeling badly with this comment: I was given my mother's last name (technically her "maiden" but she never changed it) as a middle name and it traumatized me...

because that is exactly what I did with my daughters. My last name is Howard and both my daughters have it as their middle name. My aunt did the same thing (but a different last name that is not a male first name) with my 2 female cousins who are now 10 and 14 and they don't seem to mind. A couple of people have said "How can you give them a boy's name as a middle name?", but most people don't seem to think much of it. However, I do have a friend whose middle name was her mother's maiden name, which is a fairly common first name in Italy. She hated it so much that when she married she changed her middle name not to her maiden name, but to a girl's name that she liked better. And she tried to talk me out of giving my daughters Howard as a middle name.

Did you know that the author Anne Rice's real first name is Howard? According to Wikipedia: About her unusual given name, Rice said: "My birth name is Howard Allen because apparently my mother thought it was a good idea to name me Howard. My father's name was Howard, she wanted to name me after Howard, and she thought it was a very interesting thing to do." Rice became "Anne" on her first day of school, when a nun asked her what her name was. She blurted out "Anne" immediately, and her mother, who was with her, let it go without correcting her, knowing how self-conscious her daughter was of her real name.

Enid was the alienated teen main character in the movie "Ghost World" (adapted from the comic book of the same name)--Thora Birch made it work, I thought. The more socially-conforming best friend character was Rebecca.

About Theodore/Teddy/Theo--I think Teddy's great for a little guy, as long as you're comfortable with the likelihood that he'll transition to Ted or Theo when he gets older (maybe as soon as elementary school, if he's annoyed by "Teddy Bear"). But Henry and Ted are fine as brothers, to my ear, too.

That Howard Allen story is very interesting to me because my mom's first cousin has that very name and hated it so much that he decided to go professionally by "H. Allan Lastname". He couldn't get away from the Howard altogether because the whole family calls him "Howie", but his friends call him Allan, and his wife calls him "Al", so he did have quite a bit of success with controlling his name.

My middle name is Smith, which is my mother's maiden name. I don't particularly care for it as a first name, though I have heard of people using it. I am considering Burke for my son's first name (due in JAN), it was my grandmother's maiden name. My own maiden name does not sound good as a first name to me, though there was a Real World character with it a few seasons ago. I plan to use my maiden name as my daughter's middle name, should I ever have a daughter...

Interesting that "Enid" has been coming up. I'm reading a deliciously frivolous "coffee table" book on legends of chivalry, and the romantic couple "Erec and Enide" are discussed. He was a knight at King Arthur's court.

I rather like the anomalous spellings-- and "Enide" with an "e" seems to lift the name onto that medieval "fairy-land" plane.

Another enchanting couple from the same book-- "Bradamante" (woman) and "Ruggiero" (man). Wouldn't Ruggiero today qualify as a surname-first name? I like it.

I've always liked surnames as first names, and see no reason why it should not span all ethnicities. Recently encountered a "Garcia Lastname", which I thought was distinguished.

Also, it seems a bit limiting or snobbish to say that only people with actual family connections should be entitled to surnames as first names. It's all fluid, and surnames have appealed to people throughout history. They're just identifiers, like any other name. My only wish is that people would branch out, and not stick to the same surnames over and over. There are so many great ones to pick from!

Both Canadian and American branches of my family have used family surnames as firsts and middles-- from Trennum to Wellington to Coleman to Melia to Holmes to Ritchie to Osborne to Wilkinson, and on and on. I'm not the least proprietorial and would love to see names like these abound! I also encountered the practice during my years in New Orleans, Miriam. Tulane was a rich source. I had many favorites from there, but a special fondness for "Winslow Chadwick"...

My name is actually Enid. I loathed it when I was growing up. I hated the sound of it, I hated how unusual it was, and I hated the "old lady" connotation it carried. However, now that I'm in my thirties I look at it differently. It's an ancient name from Arthurian legend, which I feel gives it a certain charm. It's Celtic, which is now high fashion. As an adult, I love having an unusual name. I think it has become a bit of a "hipster" name, especially since appearing in the above mentioned "Ghost World." I still don't like the sound, but I could see it coming back into fashion. I'm pregnant and due in October and have been thinking of naming my daughter "Vera," which has been "old ladyish" for a while now. Tastes do change rapidly. I have a sixteen year old daughter and she and her friends all think Vera is super-cool. Names do cycle.

Oh, and the other non-English surname-as-first name example that I always give-- "Schaeffer" was an arty woman's first name I encountered. Great on its own merits, or what a neat way to honor a Teutonic or Jewish heritage...

"Also, it seems a bit limiting or snobbish to say that only people with actual family connections should be entitled to surnames as first names."

Um, Eo, who are the people without "actual family connections?" Except for the rare soul who was left on the church steps and raised in an orphanage, everyone has family connections, and everyone is entitled to use family surnames (or anything else that strikes their fancy) as given names for their children...that is, everyone in the US. In some countries naming choices are regulated by law, but not in the US and not in Venezuela (known for its over the top naming practices) and not in many other countries.

We are accustomed,largely by reason of traditional naming practices, to the idea of using Anglo-Saxon, Irish, Scots, and Welsh surnames as given names, but nothing is stopping people of other backgrounds from converting family names into given names if they so choose. Few, to date, so choose, at least partly because in many cases that is not in line with their own traditional naming practices.

My tradition places great stress on recycling the given names of deceased family members, and I would never have chosen to name my child any other way. However, my child does have "actual family connections," and I could have chosen from Becker, Teitelman, Kaplan, Tuckwood, Bottomley, O'Connor, and my own maiden name which I shall not mention. I think Bottomley would make a ridiculous given name (even though it's WASP-y as they come), but that's just me. Well, I could have used the nickname Bottom :-).

More on Erec and Enide:

That was Chretien de Troyes' first known work and started the fashion for Arthurian romances. The story was originally Geraint and Enide (Welsh names), but Chretien changed the hero's name to Erec, a Breton name, which btw has nothing to do with Eric/Erik/Eirik, a north Germanic name. Enide is pronounced as Uh-NEED (the uh- represents schwa), while in my experience Enid is generally pronounced EE-nid. Those who don't care for Enid might find Enide more to their taste--or not.

Doesn't Eo mean people with connections to that particular name? As in if I pick Campbell (no connection with my family) it's a different story to if I pick Selbey - big family connection?

sdh- You might be interested to know that Burke has negative connotations in the UK. It's often spelled Berk, but sounds the same: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/berk

Eo- I think of Ruggiero as a first name already, as in the violinist Ruggiero Ricci. I wonder if it could be related to Roger. Love those Arthurian names!

Just saw in the NY Times that Carly Fiorina (former HP leader) is actually named Carleton S. Fiorina. Did a quick search to see if Carleton was s/o's maiden name and didn't find info., but did find that her given name is Cara Carleton F. Interesting.

My SIL named her daughter Bailey and said it was "boardroom appropriate," using Carly as an example. "Boardroom appropriate" is clearly a moving target these days, but I sort of disagreed and always thought Carly was diminuitive, in a negative way. Turns out, she (Carly) was often called by her first name when men were called by Mr. X.

Anyway, not sure what my point is .. oh year, Carleton -- maiden name or not?

Kelly, I actually really like Sullivan. It has a nice sound, very contemporary without being overly trendy, and it's easily nicknamed (Sully is quite cool, I think). I have no objections to surnames as first names, family connection or not - family connections admittedly make things a bit more interesting, but surnames seem to me to be a largely untapped resource! I just wish more people would branch out beyond Logan and Bailey (which are quite nice, but getting dull).

I don't have a great knowledge of my own family tree, unfortunately, but thought I'd make a list of the surnames I do know from my own and my partner's families:

Edwards
Webbe
Blackadder (honestly!! I'm so using this)
Macdonald
Dolan
Llewellyn
O'Byrne

My own surname isn't listed here, but I think some of these would make interesting first names - though maybe not to my taste!

Anyone else willing to make a list? This could be fun!

What do y'all think of the name Elinor Wren with a LN sounding like something along the lines of Carter (but not)?

Too many 'r' sounds?

Celeb baby news:

Matt Damon and wife just had their second daughter together- Gia Zavala. Their first daughter is Isabella.

Blackadder! Is there a Baldrick as well?

In my family we have:

Kelly
Costello
Revering
Norris
O'Shaughnessy

Including my husband's gives us:
Harrison
Seigel

I really like the ideas of Kelly and Harrison as first names. Harrison, however, is a definite no-go, as my husband's and future-childrens' last name ends in -dick. The teasing possibilities involved with Harry and -dick are too much for me to consider.

I think Keren summarized the thrust of Eo's remarks correctly.

This is an area where I have to admit my own non-sensical snobbishness.
While I like many surname/first names, I have this pet peeve about names like Jackson (yes, even though I have a "just Jack").
The minute I hear it's a family name, however, I totally revise my opinion.
Silly and snobby, I'm afraid!

As I mentioned, Sheperd is back in our family tree, and it's one I really like, much as it isn't for everyone. I wonder if I could really call it a "family name," though, seeing as it's quite far back in the tree.
What do you all think.....does the maiden name of a great great aunt you never knew still count?
A cousin of mine found Redmond in some branch of the family and changed it to Redmon for his son.

I love Sullivan, especially the darling nn Sully.
In fact, I tried to sell my husband on it for about ten minutes, but he wasn't in to it. The only meaning I could find for it was "dark-eyed," and since we tilt toward fair heads and blue eyes, I gave it up without much fight.

Last week I met a 12 mo old Sullivan. Makes a lovely name, imo.

So if I name one of my kids Reichelt, would y'all think me crazy?

Of the surnames I have closely available:
Hoover
Hilty
Bear
Greider
Brunk
Landis
Derstine
Beidler
Reichelt
Clemens
Gehman - so NOT using this one. pro gay-mun :(

family names (both sides but not my ln or DHs ln)

Hopkins
Wise
Essex
Maddock
Ritchie
Wilson
Rudisill
Vidovic

those are all I can think of off the top of my head. I can see using Wilson, Maddock and maybe Essex, although the last would sound awful with DH's name. I think Wise would be a great middle name (used it for my list of 18 a few months ago). and Vidovic is tempting...

but no more kids for me!

Yup, Keren, that is what I meant.

Come now, Miriam, you jest-- you can't think that I think there are people with no family connections... you are toying with me!

"Reichelt", Jessica? Exactly so! That would be a bold and interesting choice. Just what I meant by positing a richer ethnic and linguistic body of surnames to draw from-- like the aforementioned "Garcia" and "Schaeffer".

You all have some lovely and provocative off-the beaten-path candidates-- Blackadder (wow), Costello, Revering, Seigel, Clemons, Hopkins, Selbey, Vidovic, Shepherd. The thought that people would choose from such riches-- I find it almost intoxicating! (That's how much of a name fiend I am, sadly...)

Just want to reiterate, so the point doesn't get lost-- I do think that one needn't be limited to one's own known family tree when choosing surnames. To me they're pretty much all fair game, just like first names. For obvious reasons, I wouldn't pick stratospherically famous or notorious ones-- "Grimaldi", "Trump", "Rockefeller", "Windsor", "Netanyahu", "Aniston", "Schweitzer", "de Gaulle", "Nehru" or the like!

Am curious what other people think. If someone fell in love with the names you've listed- if someone HAD to "filch" a baby name Costello or Landis from your lists, would you be annoyed, or flattered?

Can anyone remember what Tea Leoni and David Duchovny named their son? I'm thinking, maybe "Kydd", or something like that? But that seems improbable. Must be another quirky surname choice...

Yeah, in fact David Duchovny's son is named Kyd Miller Duchovny.

Ooo, Enid -

I've just started fantasizing about Vera, too! And I'm actually shocked that teenagers would think it's cool. I don't even know where I got it from, but It's my latest name love affair...

AK -- I don't think there are too many Rs in Elinor Wren LN (somewhat like Carter). Most people aren't routinely called by all three names, plus I think repetitive sounds can be pleasant across a name. My daughter has a similar A sound in all three of her names, plus an R component.

Surnames (not mine or my husband's) that are in my family tree:

Brodbeck
Murdoch
De Loof
Larson
Mueller

One of these names is my father-in-law's mn and some of the others I could see using as a first or middle.

Eo -- Per your question about whether I'd be annoyed or flattered if someone chose to name their kid from my surname list, I'd generally be flattered.

I come from a bunch of totally boring WASPY last names: Cary is the one usually granted as a first or middle name, and Stone is my middle name and that of my niece. As a kid, I hated Stone and wanted a fairy-girl middle name (Marie! Annette! Christine!). Now I love it. But I definitely associate the last-name-as-first-name thing with the very, very upper crust of the Northeast, and the South, neither of which is my background. Remember in the Preppie Handbook, all those cutesy nicknames for the girls with last names as their first?

But oh my poor daughter. On her, um, sperm donor's side, we could have used 569. On her other mom's side, we had Buck and Cherry, neither of which are advisable first names. Then we had the dull ones from my side, and Cary is decidedly male. So we went with family first names for first and middle, and a god-awful hyphenated last name so her non-biological mom shares a name with her. If she grows up and wants to change her name to CherryStone 569, well, let her do the damage.

But I would steal Eleanor Tuckwood (dirt-common surname of no particular ethnicity) in a heartbeat! Or Costello, for a boy's first name (after Elvis Costello, if nothing else)! Or Landis (I knew a girl with this name in college)!

Names from my family:

Tytherleigh
Evans
Hancock
Rostron
Honisett

I think Tytherleigh and Honisett make nice girls' names, but I don't think much of the others. Anyone is welcome to them all, if they appeal.

My own maiden name is a very traditional boys' name, but both it and my husband's ln are one syllable which to me makes the whole name too short and choppy.

Oh, and another amy, Wilson, for a boy, is such a refreshing thought after the endless parade of Williams (which was our boy name, so I'm not being dismissive). Wilson, nn Will. Love it. It has a Jackson-y vibe without being a fake -son name. Larson nn Lars, also cute.

De Loof, nn Loofah, maybe not so much.

Lola Jane: We have a two-year-old Theodore, called Teddy. I love his name, and his nickname. It's traditional and recognizable, yet I don't know any other little boys named Teddy. My son is unique among all the Logans, Jadens, etc. We never use "Ted" (although I know he might in the future), but we often call him "T." I have absolutely no regrets about Theodore/Teddy. Go for it!

Oh, and guess what. I had my second baby in February. If she had been a boy, her name would have been Henry! I like your taste! (We named her Phoebe Katherine).

Sadly, I am not able to go very far back in my family - at least not without doing some research - but the last names I do know from my family are:

- Diamond
- Snyder/Schneider/Schneiderman (there were a lot of tailors in my family)
- Feifermacher

Methinks not.

However, my boyfriend's family, not being from Eastern Europe, and with records going back to the 1460s, has many more names to choose from... over 50... But I still don't think I would ever use the majority of these names for my children. Here is a selection:

***
1) Names that are already thought of as first names (or contain a name):
- Oliver
- Warren
- Douglas
- Evans
- Clark
- Phillips
- Leonard

***
2) Names I know have been used as first names:
- Damon
- Jefferson
- Tucker
- Robertson (eg. Robertson Davies)
- Baxter
- McKenzie (heh)
- Fraser

***
3) Yeah, I can see it happening:
- Healy
- Lindon
- Byerlay
- Robbins
- Garnett
- Raily/Ralley/Realy (depending on the mood of the scribe)

***
4) I would never do that to a child:
- Cox
- Burns
- Wiswall/Wiswell
- Newgate
- Berage
- Hinksman
- VanBlarcom
- Truefitt
- Down
- Chipps
- Sneden

Names from my family tree:

Coghlan
Hunt
Tomson
Robertson

Kampmeier
Meier
Woizeski
Graff

One side British/Irish, the other German/Polish. I would be much more likely to use the former, I think, as some of you were saying. Woizeski Brown, anyone? If I had to pick one, Hunt would be my choice. I have seen Meir as a first name. However, the surname-as-first-name trend is nms.

I know of a young woman (mid-20s) named Leith. Presumably a family name, but I don't know that for certain.

Family names are more than a little dull for me- my surname is unusable as a fn, though as a monosyllable it would hyphenate reasonably well. Others, further back, are Cameron, Craig, Knapp, Lytle, Fraser, Jewill, Winn. Fraser's the only one I'd seriously consider- there is a good solid connection there that I'd love to honour. Cameron and Craig have been done, just a little!

My mother's first name is Rosa, and her mother's Cardinali. Not very masculine! Or pleasant sounding.

Not first name...maiden name.

Just posting so I can use "Brunk de Loof" as my new screen name. Thanks to the descendants of Brunk and De Loof for their respective contributions.

On Vera--yeah, lovely name--lovely meaning--short, pretty, not cutesy, not ubiquitous, ages well, easy to say/spell, stylish V start, not automatically nicknamed (though she'd be Veruschka around some grandparents). There was a Vera in my kindergarten class (c. 1971)--among all the Michaels and Kathleens, she was an instant fascination for the embryonic NE I already was.