The Baby Name Wizard

My daughter Phoenix is starting kindergarten on Tuesday. Today was "meet the teacher" day and they posted the class list.

Some people think that my choice of Phoenix is out there; but it's really not that farfetched among the kids in the neighborhood. Phoenix's kindergarten class:

Not in the top 1000:
Wynter
Acacia
Indiana
Ramsey

Popular Names:
Ava
Maximillian (2)
Maya (2)
Chloe
Emma
Benjamin
Melanie
Niki
Matthew
Dalton

We live in a wealthy California suburb.

It is interesting to me that for the most part, people are either picking names that are ranked in the top 200 or they pick something that's completely off the chart.

Quote from Sarah Palin's husband in People.com:

"Where do your children's names come from?
TODD: Sarah's parents were coaches and the whole family was involved in track and I was an athlete in high school, so with our first-born, I was, like, 'Track!' Bristol is named after Bristol Bay. That's where I grew up, that's where we commercial fish. Willow is a community there in Alaska. And then Piper, you know, there's just not too many Pipers out there and it's a cool name. And Trig is a Norse name for 'strength.'"

BTW, the oldest, Track, is 19. The youngest, Trig, is 4.5 months, has down syndrome, and is still breastfeeding. Boy, that pump is going to get a lot of frequent flyer miles!

Hmmmmmm. But if all our first-borns were named for something we did in high school, yikes...."meet my kids, Drama Club and Clearasil."

I guess that's another reason to wait till you're well beyond those years to have kids, till you have some wider interests and experiences....

Rosemay -- I like Joss. I think it may be misheard as Josh by many, but that's never been a deal-breaker for me (my daughter's name is frequently misheard). I think it works as a stand-alone name, and I'm typically one not to prefer a nn over a more formal version as the given name. I also like the nod to your brother with the -oss ending.

juniemoon -- I'd prefer Oliver Charles myself, but Caspian is okay, too.

Re: Palin, I actually considered this as a possible name for a boy (inspired by Michael Palin's name) years ago and many years before I was pg. Now I'm glad it never made it into the running!

Of Sarah Palin's kids, I think Trig is cool, but Track is just too much. I don't care for Bristol. It sounds far more like a boy's name to me. Willow and Piper are a bit matchy for my taste, although each is fine on its own.

>>But if all our first-borns were named for something we did in high school, yikes...."meet my kids, Drama Club and Clearasil." <<

LOL I'd have Band Geek and Failed Cheerleading Attempt.
That said, I think Bristol might be my favorite name out of the bunch, followed by Piper and Trig. Willow seems... I'm not sure how to put it, but almost "predictable". I could like Track if it wasn't about, yanno, TRACK.

Rosemay- I really like Joss also, and think it makes a fine given name.

juniemoon- both Charles and Caspian work well with Oliver, I kind of like Caspian better but dh thinks Charles should be the one.

Tirzah- I love Indiana, Acacia, and Ramsey! I live in a similar type of neighborhood in SoCal, just add "60% Asian" to the description. In our schools, it seems that the "older" names prevail. Eunice, Albert, Philbert, Ada, Alice seem to be overly popular.

If you were a swimmer in high school, you could name your firstborn "Butterfly." Or, urm, just "Stroke." Makes as much sense as Track, anyway.

Carly - I wouldn't say you're US-centric at all - it's great to get a different perspective on these things, as I doubt my child will stay in Scotland his whole life.

The main trends here just now do differ somewhat from the rest of the UK and elsewhere. Scotland is a very divided wee country and social class plays a very big part in the language (I once met a Canadian shocked that everyone she met here had different accents!), including names - as it does everywhere, but sometimes I think such issues are more pronounced in the UK.

In general, though names that are Scottish in origin without being overly Gaelic seem very much in vogue with certain sets - place names like Isla, Iona, Harris and Lewis are all commonplace, as are anglicisations such as Callum and Rory (though Ruaraidh is also pretty popular - it'd be in the top hundred easily if it wasn't spelled twenty different ways!)

I'm a teacher and am always amazed at how schools can provide little pockets of certain names - one school I went to had tons of Frasers and another had a glut of Roberts and Demis. My bf's niece's nursery has a lot of little Jaes/Jayes/Jais, pronounced both 'jay' and 'jye'.

What about where you are, Carly?

Amy3 and Trish - thanks for the replies! They're very much appreciated.

Palin's kids' names are growing on me. If nothing else, I rather like the fact that they put a bit of thought into them. And there's something about Piper that I find very pretty...

As always, I'm appreciating all the contributions.

I just read that Mr. Palin is part Yupik Eskimo.

Tirzah,
Thanks for the list! Jack is starting kindergarten next week.
Last year Maya was one of the only repeaters at preschool. I was sure I was in some sort of Maya pocket. Maybe you're in one, too!.
The interesting thing about the list is that even the more creative names seem to fit right in sound wise.
I'm actually the most surprised by Melanie and Niki. Those seem like they'd be the names of kindergarten moms.

juniemoon-I vote for the uber handsome Oliver Charles, unless Caspian has a personal connection.

Rosemay-I agree with Amy3 that Joss would be misheard as Josh (at least here in the states), but that is only an issue if it would bother you.
I have a "just Jack," myself, so the nn issue doesn't bother me, but there is something about it that seems a bit incomplete. Maybe because it sounds so close to other names? Hmmm....
I do think it has an appealing sound-very boyish and sporty. It reminds me a bit of Cam.
Don't know if that helps you, but there you go...! BTW, forgive me for being forward, but are we naming an actual baby yet?
I lose track of the goings-on with this thread.

Do Palin's kids have middle names?

Melanie isn't that dated--it's at #80 right now and was at #94 around when a kindergartner would've been born.

Oh, and at its height in the 70s, it was #56, so it hasn't fallen far. I think of Melanie as a modern classic.

I only heard the middle names of the baby-- "Trig Paxson Van Palin".

That's it, J@H's Mom, the thing I read said he was, I think, one-fourth Yupik Eskimo.

I rather like the Palins' taste in names, even though their style is different than mine-- more adventurous and eclectic, in keeping with their Western roots I suppose. As someone said, they put a lot of thought into them...

Juniemoon, I like both Charles and Caspian. For Oliver, I lean slightly more toward Charles, only because I like a single syllable name to follow a three syllable one, rather than another three syllable name. If his first name was short, like "Hugh" or "Tate", then I'd prefer Caspian as the second name. It's just a goofy idiosyncracy of mine...

I knew that I could find a discussion of Palin's childrens' names here!

My personal reaction:

Track seems kind of cool - but nickname-y to me. I imagine Track to be the sporty cool kid at school

Trig - just makes me think of trigonometry (another high school reference?) I'll have to think about whether or not hearing that it is a "real" name will influence my perception.

Bristol - seems fine to me, I would probably put it on a boy rather thant a girl

Willow & Piper strike me as relatively mainstream.

I think it is the combination of the 5 names that gets me. When you say them all together, you think, "Wow, those are unusual names." In a lesser grouping it wouldn't be so striking. For instance, Will SMith has a daughter named Willow. When you hear that his children are named Willow and Jayden, Willow doesn't seem so out there. When you hear Bristol, Track, trig, Willow and Piper, you think all the names are unusual.

Rosemary-

In regards to the name Joss, I came across this on another name site in a list of new babies the poster had come across recently.

"Joss Mikayla (Joss is feminine? Since when?...)"

Just thought you might be interested. I really like Joss for a boy btw. Ive added it to my hypothetical list.

Re: Oliver... I am all about classic names hence my strong perference if Charles. Also I like the syllable flow much better. If there are personal connection to Caspian, I'd do it. But only if...

I also want to know the Palin kids mn's. The fn are nms but I find them to be strong names. Connected to their roots. I like the name Willow quite a lot. But that is reflective of a Willodean I knew whom we called Willow. After Bristol and Willow, I think Piper fits well.

I recall questioning the naming choices of Mrs. Palin when baby Trig was born (several months ago, as someone above pointed out). I suspect that some of those names, especially the girls' names could get boosts from her candidacy.

I teach middle school in a vast-majority Hispanic, low-income school in the southwest. Repeat names off the top of my head: 4 Maria-s, 4 Luis-es, 2 Eddie-s, 2 Perla-s.

Wow. I feel as though I have just found my kind. My husband and I bought a copy of The Naming Wizard a couple of years ago (not having a baby; just thought it was interesting), and since then I have become a name buff. Whenever I heard a name, in real life or on tv, I check it out in the name book. When I'm bored I scroll through the pages, making up games (like - pick the best name on each page). And now, quite by accident, I seem to have found others like me. Wow.

I was all over Palin's kids' names. Very interesting. That says a lot about here I think.

I teach at a pretty upper crust independent school in DC, and the names are always interesting. I love to check out the school directory every year. Someone mentioned a number of Griffins - we have several at my school, across the grades. We also have a lot of what looks to me to be family names used as first names. This is especially true for girls - or maybe it just doesn't wear as well for girls.

Anyway - great blog. I love it.

I vote for Oliver Caspian, mostly because I love Caspian but was too chicken to use it myself (chose Charlie - although it was for a first name, not a middle name, so that made me less adveturous.) You seriously can't read Voyage of the Dawn Treader and not love the name Caspian. Also Oliver Caspian has a nice iambic flow going that I like.

Eo: Do you pronounce Charles as one syllable? Because my husband and I debated once whether our Charles had a one- or two-syllable name. I say two: CHAR-uhls. He says one: Charlz.

Apparently a lot of people are interested in Sarah Palin's children's names. There was a debate about it on NRO toady (from a reader email):

"One weird bit from a New Republic post on McCain's choice of Sarah Palin (it seems to be credited to professor Alan Wolfe, but surely he wouldn't say something that is without evidence):

Sarah Palin named two of her children after witches, once took drugs, and refused to sign a bill forbidding domestic benefits for gay couples.
It's unclear where this "witches" claim is coming from, although I suspect it's due to this post from Andrew Sullivan:
A reader plumbs the weirdness: "Willow" was Buffy the Vampire Slayer's best friend and "Piper" was the eldest sister on the series Charmed played by Shannen Doherty. The governor obviously has a penchant for television shows of paranormal female empowerment.
Alas, one problem for this theory is the timing: Buffy the Vampire Slayer didn't start airing until 1997, whereas Sarah Palin's daughter Willow is described as being 14 years old. I don't know whether she turned 14 this year or will turn 15 later this year, but I'm pretty sure that 2008 minus 14 equals something before 1997.

Otherwise, that's a great theory . . ."

Track reminds me of a recent baby-name conversation DH and I had. The game was bicycle-related baby names, and Gear started to grow on me...

Others included Cadence, Ellsworth, and Pedal (Petal?). I knew he wasn't taking the game seriously anymore when he suggested Crankset and Seatpost, however.

AK- rather than "just" Daley, would your friend like Daelyn/Daylen/Dailyn (however she'd like to spell it), then nn'd Daley? I love the name Daelyn, and although I first heard it on a boy (former professional football player Daylon McCutcheon was one of my dh's students in HS), I think it works better for a girl.

Kelly: Some other suggestions I came up with tonight. (I know you said no A,M,B,or K but I threw some in anyway just in case).
Ainsley; Rayne; Chloe; Ishani; Isla; Rebecca; Bianca; Sierra; Danielle; Eileen; Elyssa; Gabrielle; Iris; Jaclyn; Maura; Natalie; Nicole; Piper; Prsicilla; Savannah; Scarlett; Sheridan; Lydia; Vaentina; Virginia; Zaria
It seems to me that something that ends in an "-ah" vowel sound would work best.

AK-Some more for you too!
Boys: Dylan; Dalton; Griffin; Owen; Austin; Dakota; Conner; Eli; Fisher; Gannon; Garrett; Wesley; Quincy
Girls:Mikayla; Delaney; Sharaya; Alyssa; Brianna; Brooklyn; Chelsea; (some pronunciation of KY-ah however it is spelt); Kelsey; Skyler; Shyanne (or alt sp); Lydia; Sierra
Kelsey seems the best match for "spunk" and Lydia apparently is my new favorite name!

Rosemay-Joss seems girly, but I do like Ross except for the TV show Friends connection.

juniemoon-Prefer Oliver Charles.
Good luck all!

Elizabeth T, Thanks for the extra info. Small world! I was wondering if they were family names. Do you happen to know if $hefler's first name is Dad's name as well? I'm faintly recalling that it might have been. If not, it is a bit unusual for the second son to be the namesake, rather than the first.

Trish, I really like Indiana, Acacia, and Ramsey too. Funny thing is that Acacia was on our name list for both girls. I drive by an Acacia Lane everyday and always think, "What a nice name!" It would have been funny/horrifying to show up for kindergarden and have my daughter's cubby marked "Acacia A." My other daughter is named Indigo. I hope that there isn't a kid named Indiana when she starts kindergarten. One "Indie" is more than enough!

J&H's mom, I'm definitely in a Maya pocket. In addition to the two in kindergarten, I have two co-workers that have daughters named Maya. Also, one of my friends from college has a Maya. The name seems particularly popular in Jewish families. Good luck with Jack's kindergarten class on Tuesday!

Oh, no, it was only a matter of time before political partisans invaded this question. I don't know Alan Wolfe, but he and others who try to make that family's naming process into something weird or unsavory-- AND manage to insert extraneous information as well, oh so innocently...

It's unseemly.

Absolutely nothing to do with political views, and I am brtish so I don't have a vote anyway but I don't think I could vote for someone who names her sons Track and Trig. What kind of judgement has she got?

Not an indictment of you, Keren, or any genuine NE's. And of course, anyone can and should have any opinion they choose about any given name...

It's a subtle phenomenon. I'm talking about journalists, "professors" and others who take to the Internet and other venues, ostensibly to talk about the names of the children of politicos, and then wind up inserting other information that they deem to be politically "damaging". That is what is clearly at work in those items about the Palin family.

On the opposite end, I'll stipulate that I quite like Joe Biden's sons' names, "Beau" and "Hunter"! Although again, it's not my particular taste, I think those names have a sort of dashing, rather Southern gallantry...

Saw another episode of Derek Jacobi's superb "Cadfael" last night. Names of characters: a brother and sister pair, "Ermina", (I think) and "Yves". They must have been Norman, right? Is Cadfael set in the eleventh century? I get all fuzzy about when the Normans were predominant.

Other characters: Sister Hilaria, Brother Oswin. I do think "Cadfael" would make a splendid name for a modern-day little boy...

I heard Trig was Bristol's kid anyway.

And "Track, Trig, Willow, Piper and Bristol" are just a bit too much for me. I know we have a lot of discussions about not being judgemental but these names just don't sound like wise choices to me. Sort of flaky and flippant.

I always make an involuntary judgement on parents when I first hear their children's names. Yep, Jayden and Madison's mom is a different sort than Jade and Maya's or Julian and Mathilda's. It just happens.

The first sentence of the 10:47 AM post rather proves the point, does it not?

It's no wonder that people are hesitant to enter the political arena, with such casual barbs aimed relentlessly not just at candidates, but families.

Back to names, anyone?

Um, excuse me EO, this is the internet and we discuss things here. The first stuff that popped up for me when I was reading about Sarah Palin's children's names were discussions about "Trig" being "Bristol's" baby. It's not like I believe it. I was making a joke.

And when people enter politics that's what happens. I wasn't making any casual barb, I was commenting about the rumor which is all over the place at the moment.

And no, I don't like her kid's names much. This was actually the point of my post. We are allowed to discuss this kind of thing here.

Hi Laney, respectfully referring you back to my 10:12 post, I reiterate that it goes without saying, one hopes, that of course anyone may hold any opinion and express it, forcefully!

My objection is to "stealth" smears, in the guise of name commentary.

And I'm afraid that I do believe that repeating baseless, damaging rumors, about any public figure is wrong. I don't like ANY of the rampant, unproven rumors circulating in this most potent political year.

I totally support your right to like or dislike any name you choose. Please, keep those opinions coming!

Eo--

Cadfael is set during the civil war between the Empress Matilda, daughter of Henry I and his designated heir, and her cousin Stephen of Blois who (conveniently for his own ambitions) didn't think a woman should be monarch. (It's that darned glass ceiling!) This is the middle of the twelfth century. Mathilda was the mother of Henry II and thus the mother-in-law of Eleanor of Aquitaine.

Beau Biden is actually Joe jr., and Hunter is Robert Hunter, Hunter being his mother's maiden name. The baby daughter who perished in the car accident was Naomi, and the surviving daughter from the second marriage is Ashley (strikes me as a totally different name style from the first marriage). Joe Biden's grandchildren are Naomi, Finnegan, Roberta Mabel, Natalie, and Robert Hunter Biden. Finnegan is Joe Biden's mother's maiden name.

Laney, there's no need for the snarkiness. It's not appreciated. There is certainly a place to discuss the degree of responsibilty that older siblings should have for younger ones, but it's not here.

Talking about irrational hatred of names, one of mine is Piper. There is no particular reason why it, of all flightily insubstantial surname-names, irks me so, but I'd take an Addison or Avery over Piper any day. PYYYE-perr. Yeurgh!!

Back to the original topic, as an "A", I used to get strange calls all the time...from two kids I babysat, who liked to press buttons on their parents' cell phones. The worst was one midnight call, when I answered the phone to a decidedly cranky infant and a barely-audible discussion about whether to wait for the next service station or just pull over to the side of the highway!

Tirzah- I wonder if we live in roughly the same area... I know an Acacia Lane also that is easily driven by, it's very near where I grew up!
My cousin named his son Indy (he's about 5-6 mos. old) but they live a bit south of us so with geography and age, hopefully your dd is "safe". :)
My daughter's name is McKenna, and while many people seem to know others with the name, we haven't run into any in her classrooms yet (she's in upper elementary). Who knows though when she gets to HS, where the student population is over 3,000.

I think we should try - even on the internet - to refrain from passing around ugly (and I should think, obviously false) rumors about young girls. I regret including a bit from a political blog into this one. I honestly thought it was funny the way the names Willow and Piper seemed so far out there to people that they assumed they must have been stolen from television! I think it illustrates how different the perspective of a NE is from the general public (and from BC professors). Anyway, I should have respected that difference, and NOT crossed politics with naming.

Met a little girl at church this morning named "Amariah" (not sure on spelling). It was pronounced AM-er-EE-ah. They said it was a Biblical name... but I've never heard of it. Has anyone else?

@Rosemay - I'm in an urban US pocket. Seems like the yuppie parents here are naming every other boy Graham or Oliver, and every other girl Charlotte or Annabelle. The hipster parents are naming every other boy Elijah or Miles, and every other girl Sadie or Finley.

@Laney - "Jayden and Madison's mom is a different sort than Jade and Maya's or Julian and Mathilda's. It just happens." Absolutely! I would add to that "Joseph and Margaret's mom is yet another sort."

These "sorts" we're talking about roughly correlate with lower, middle, and upper classes. Few in the US are comfortable discussing the class system, let alone admitting it even exists. I think it has little to do with actual wealth anymore, and more to do with aesthetic preferences and intellect. Everyone says they're middle class.

"Laney, there's no need for the snarkiness. It's not appreciated. There is certainly a place to discuss the degree of responsibilty that older siblings should have for younger ones, but it's not here."

Huh?

"My objection is to "stealth" smears, in the guise of name commentary."

Again: Huh? I don't live in the US...I'm not voting, I'm not political. I just think her name choices are flaky and weird (Track?!?!?) and was mentioning that for an unpolitical name lover like me that makes me judge her based on her kids names.

It's the only thing I even know about her. Anyway, carry on.

Does anyone else think Gustav is a funny name for the hurricane?

I know Gus is trendy again, but Gustav seems really old-world for a hurricane-maybe because it was the name of my Norwegian Great-Grandfather.

Think we'll see a rise in Gus?

I'm surprised that names like Willow, Piper, or Bristol would be considered odd to anyone who grew up in the U.S. or has an American perspective. The former two have been around for decades as first names (and Piper even has a celebrity namesake), and Bristol is a place name that is just a different flavor than other place names like Austin, Dallas, Savannah, Brooklyn, and Dakota (all much-used).

Track and Trig might be further off the beaten path, but not along the lines of Moon Unit. The boys' names read more like a Jolie-esque Pax. Further, many public figures--for example, American politicians--have a rich tradition of unusual nickname-style (or actual nickname) names. Newt Gingrich and the like.

But, as in everything, what's "unusual" is subjective.

As for the political aspect, there are some "character" issues that certainly would keep me from pulling the lever for a candidate. But what a politician names his or her children is, for me, decidedly not one of them--even if they named their kid Moon Unit!

@J&H's mom - I think "Gustav" is already such an uncommon name that the impact of Hurricane Gustav on the name's popularity will be negligible. As for the nn "Gus," I think it's on the rise, along with the various formal names Augustin, Augusten, and Augustine.

@Easternbetty - "I'm surprised that names like Willow, Piper, or Bristol would be considered odd to anyone who grew up in the U.S."

Hmm... I'm in the US, and I actually consider Willow and Bristol to be exceedingly odd names IRL (on this board however, dare I say, they're probably even a bit common.) I know of several little Pipers, and one Bryst0l (also a girl). I'm surrounded by corporate types in a major US city.

You're right about the political tradition of unusual names; typically with some family connection. Names aside, I actually admire Mrs. Palin for birthing 5 children and being able to attain the level of success she has in spite of the many demands of childrearing - and from what I know of her middle class background, she's not among the rich who had a cadre of nannies. As for my vote, I'm a democrat - but who cares.

Gustav for a hurricane makes more sense if you think of its Spanish cognate, Gustavo, which is pretty common in Latino families--check the Gustavo graph on BabyNameVoyager, it's been in the US top 1000 since the 1950s, and top 300 for the last decade.

I was a little surprised about Gustav. Since the names are supposedly drawn from languages spoken in the hurricane-prone areas, I would have expected Gustavo.

I have been obsessively following all the predictions about Gustav. This has been a difficult few days since it is the anniversary of the loss of my home and entire social context to Katrina, and Gustav is simply adding to my feeling of anxiety. While I have been reading every Gustav update, I have also been reading all the political bumpf. Every commentator mentions the names of Governor Palin's children--and not in a good way--just as last week every commentator mentioned Senator Clinton's tangerine pantsuit--and not in a good way. None of these choices has anything to do with fitness for high office, but that does not stop them from incurring negative attention.

As someone once said, "What's in a name?" While a rose by any other name would smell as sweet, nonetheless that someone was very savvy about choosing names, and the ones that he invented (like Miranda, Jessica, and Imogen) have lived on. People do react positively or negatively to names, whether consciously or subconsciously. I know I see a lot of names which cause me to ask myself what they were thinking....

Fair or not, naming her son Track because family members enjoyed participating in that sport has caused some to question Governor Palin's judgment and gravitas. We can only rejoice that the self-identified hockey mom did not name her newborn Puck. Hillary gets a pass on the tangerine pantsuit because by the time it appeared she was out of the running. OTOH Michelle took flak because her green dress clashed in some eyes with the blue background. Talk about reducing a vital election to the most trivial of issues....

Miriam--you (either inadvertently or intentionally) bring up some interesting gendered naming questions.

Would a male politician who had a son named Track be similarly considered by some (for example, some who have posted here) to be incapable of earning their votes?

Politicians and public figures aside, is a woman parent presumed to be the chief "namer" more than a man parent, to the point where it would be her "gravitas," and not her male partner's, that might be questioned if her child had a whimsical name?

Is a whimsically-named child more of a detriment to the "gravitas" of a woman public figure than to a man public figure? That is, is a public woman's gravitas dependent on other and/or additional factors than a public man's?

If the answer to all of the above questions is "yes," I can only say with rue, "Gosh-DARNit. Apparently even very young women have to be more circumspect in every aspect of their lives than men, starting from perhaps their teen years, if they have even an inkling of attaining a public or visible position in the future." Running for public office is certainly not out of the realm of my possibility, so I suppose if I have a child now, it would be best to name her say, Jacqueline or Jessica instead of Jakarta or Justice.

I would like to hope that as time goes on, as naming practices become yet more diversified and everyone has a Pax-type, a Salahiddeen-type, an Edith-type and a Jayden-type on their street, public figures will not be judged negatively for choosing a name for their kid that is out of The Common Way (whatever that's deemed to be).

[*Obligatory disclaimer: this is in no way an endorsement of any politican, including Sarah Palin! Just some musings on naming practices by a procrastinating NE.]

Just some names of kids I met yesterday while babysitting:

Girls:
Sloane (age 2)
Evan (age 4)
Ryan (age 4)

Boys:
Zachary (age 2)
Carson (age 4)
Payne (age 8)

Sloane and Carson are sister/brother, Evan and Zachary are sister/brother, and Ryan is the cousin of Evan and Zachary.

Easternbetty, I think the answer to your questions is basically yes. While male public figures are subjected to ridiculous brou-haha about trivialities such as whether they wear flag lapel pins or cardigans or earth tones, women are subjected to much more of such nonsense. Perhaps you remember the huge fuss over Hillary Clinton's hair styles when she was first lady, not an elected public official. She is criticized for her thick ankles (like this is within her control), but I have never heard a man criticized for his. And Hillary doesn't even wear skirts with any frequency. And I personally was shocked to read some vicious criticism of Elizabeth Edwards for not publicly outing her husband as an adulterer.

As for naming, what I see here and on other name sites is a whole lot of women stressing out about naming their coming babies--not popular but not too out there, fitting with surname and sib names, having good "flow," picking initials that don't spell something unfortunate, etc., etc. And then those same women trying to convince their husbands to accept their choices, while the husbands keep saying "Ashley...." So, yeah, I would say that there is a definite perception that the mom is the chief namer and that perception is probably accurate in many cases.

My mother's advice was never to do or say anything you wouldn't want to see on the front page of the New York Times, and with the internet and YouTube, I would say that advice goes double or triple these days. The catch is that no matter what you do or don't do, someone is going to take exception to any and every little thing.

BTW I think that Justice would probably be an OK name for a politician's child, just so long as it isn't Aryan Justice. Speaking for myself no way would I vote for someone who named their kid Aryan Justice.

Yeah, that's a good exception, Miriam! I might also pause before voting for someone who named a big family of children George Foreman-style, all for himself--that would either make me wonder about his ego or his creativity!

But I think it's more than perception that women are the main "namers"--in both hospitals where my kids were born, they gave the birth certificate forms to ME to fill out and sign--not to my husband--one nurse even said, "This is to make sure you get the name how YOU like." Which is a policy I heartily approve.

re the name Bristol: over here in the UK, 'Bristols' is cockney rhyming slang for a female body part. If I say that it's short for 'bristol cities' - which rhymes with ... I think you all will get my drift.

So as a name, for a boy or a girl, it would be torture in the UK.

On a similarly slightly crude note, my current favorite term of abuse, which I recently overheard in a pub, is to say, 'oh don't be such a James Blunt!'

re twins: my cousin recently had twin boys: J0nah and Ka1las. Older brother Em1l. Her husband is French, which explains Em1l, and they met travelling around SE Asia, which explains Ka1las (apparently a holy mountain in Tibet), but where J0nah has come from, I have no idea.

Oh, Coll -- me too! Valancy is a terrific name.

re women being namers: perhaps this is a more recent phenomenon. I knew multiple people in college who were named behind their mother's back (in one case, named after an ex-girlfriend of the father's 'so that one day I'd be as pretty as she was' which we all agreed was utterly horrible). Historically in my family it was the men's job to name the babies, as all the women had done was give birth to them! I think my mother and aunt put a stop to that though.

I also knew a few people who were named by mothers still wacked out on the drugs from labor, who inadvertently gave their children the 'wrong' names, and by the time they were in a fit state, the forms had already been signed off. Come to think of it, this might be why my mom's cousin changed his daughter's name when she was six weeks old....

Now that I think about it there is nothing wrong with each of those names alone or as a nickname (Trig for Trevor or Willow for Wilhelmina, old family names or whatever).

But as a sum all together, as their given names, no. The Willow, Piper, Trig, Track and Briston set...uggh. And I would equally think so if the politician parent was male. Though I would probably have a sexist thought and think the wife was into the healing power of crystals and about 19 years old.

They are very 90210 TV drama for 15 year olds, if I have to describe those names. Track is the cool jock guy, Trig is the nerdy one, Willow is the vegan, Piper is the cheerleader and Briston is the new girl in school from some small town in Alaska.

Miriam, I certainly do agree with (and follow) the NY Times axiom your mother offered. I suppose I don't consider unusual names to be one of those categories that should be kept off the front page. However, as you point out, someone will bound to be piqued no matter what name a parent chooses. That's the trouble with people: we're so darn opinionated.

Er, rest assured, Aryan Nation will NOT be on my shortlist of baby names. Ethnically speaking, I would be turned away membership in the Aryan Nation, anyway; they'd likely disclaim any affiliation with me!

However, I see no problem with Nation, itself, or Patria, or any other such name. Bit nationalistic for my tastes, though.

I'd like to comment briefly on the topic of women in public life, esp politics. I think whether it's the clothing she wears, her hairstyle, her children's names, or something else entirely, there will always be an attempt to drag these types of completely unrelated items into the public discourse. I hope that as more and more women and people of color enter public life (increasing the diversity of the players), we will see less and less of this. I'm always annoyed by it whether I agree politically with the individual or not.

Re: Gustav ... I agree it's a strange choice for a hurricane name, but I do like it as it's my great-grandfather's name. My husband would never have consented to using it, though, even as a mn, because of the dreaded /u/ as discussed months back when we commented on synesthesia and naming.

New baby alert ... A grad school classmate (in her mid 40s) just had her second girl, Sofi4 Gr4ce. Big sister is 0livia (maybe her mn was Ros3).