The Baby Name Wizard

Excellent post, as usual, Laura! I second your approach and think that kind of announcement would solve the problem.

So... I guess it's on topic. Roenne and Oliver's parents are nearly at the due date and have no names they can agree on if it's a boy. If it's a girl, she will definitely be Matilda (Tilly). And I'm appealing to you wonderful people for some more ideas. It's one of those situations where the Mum is suggesting and the Dad is mostly vetoing :( . She's looking a bit large and down-hearted...

Near misses: Jack, Milo, Jasper, Frederick, Sebastian, Benjamin. They need something that will shorten well.
I'm going to suggest:
Miles
Toby
Owen
Caspar
Theo
Solomon
Tristan
Rupert
Benedict
Dominic
Giles
Noah
Barnaby
Piers
Luke
Gabriel
Raphael

Any other ideas? They are an Anglo-American couple. He's from the North of England, very down to earth. She's Californian, gentle. Thanks in advance. Baby has engaged, so time is of the essence...

I think my favorite part of the suggested announcement (and I love it!) is the selection of before and after names. Seems absolutely believable for new parents at this exact moment in American time — the kind of new parents who reconsider, obviously.

Valerie, how about Sidney?

I'd want new parents to understand that it's perfectly natural to call your newborn by the "other" name you were considering, by accident. That doesn't mean you chose wrong! It's just that you have to get used to the name you did choose being for real, attached to the baby you're holding.

But if you really do decide to change the name officially, I guess an announcement is in order:

"UPDATE: We changed our minds about our daughter's name. Better now than later, eh? So, instead of Anne Elizabeth, she'll be Beatrice Jane (as soon as we get all the paperwork done). We have reasons, but we realize they're probably not that interesting to anyone else; so please, just welcome BEATRICE JANE into the family."

Wow, Laura, I never could've imagined an appropriate second baby announcement ... but you did it! Sounds perfect!

I had a mild form of namer's remorse with each of my kids, but by the time they were at most a year old, their names were definitely the names they were meant to have. Our littlest one, John, is only three months, so I still go through it sometimes ... but I know it will pass!

Maybe Roenne and Oliver's brother is just John, or Christopher, or James--maybe the parent's are trying too hard, when the name they really want is elsewhere on the lists?

In their shoes, I'd look at my family and my friends and think "whose name would I proudly give my son?" If they know and respect (or remember) a truly good man named Marc or Leo or Peter, that name might be a more satisfying choice than something they have no real connection to, just chosen in the desperation of the last days before delivery.

Laura -- I think the second birth announcement was wonderful! Maybe just having some language as a jumping-off point will push some people to do it. I think it would be terrible to regret something as integral to your child as his/her name. The short-term embarrassment of the name change would be worth it, IMO.

Valerie -- What about Thomas, Abraham, Edmund/Edwin/Edward, Leopold, Callum, Malcolm, or Walter?

Is "namer's remorse" a relatively new thing? In western cultures, were babies historically named prior to or shortly after birth? What about other cultures?

I had "namer's remorse" with both of mine. After my daughter was born, I had a nightmare that I had chosen the wrong name. After my son was born, I had a longer, less intense, lingering feeling that maybe I didn't get it right... It's all good now! :-)

I suggest Louis or Lewis. It's timeless, easy to shorten and sounds great in every language.

in some cultures, babies are named way after they are born. I was asked to name numerous toddlers in East Africa who had been known roughly as boy/girl or nicknames for several years. On the other hand, the more modernized families named them at birth for baptism.

it always cracked me up to be naming a child for a woman who shared very little common language for me. There is a Sophia, a Sarah and a Jennifer out there in the bush. Those were the names I remember that stuck. i'd suggest several and see which ones they liked the sound of (and could pronounce).

For those of you who may have frequented the BabyCenter naming polls, do any of you remember a woman who visited them regularly with her daughter nn'ed Bunny (I think). Bunny was choosing her own name (wish I could remember what she finally selected) so she and her mom used the polls for ideas.

As an NE I could never have turned the reins over to my daughter to name herself, but I was fascinated that Bunny's mom could. I also don't remember how old Bunny was when she made her choice -- maybe 5?

Thanks for another great post, Laura. I am a regular reader but only an occasional commenter.

I can't say that I've had any namer's remorse with any of our three girls. There have been some little niggling things, though. I have occasionally wished I'd saved our first daughter's middle name for another girl (who knew we'd have three?!?). I have sometimes wondered if our second choice name would have suited our second daughter better than the one we went with. And of greatest concern right now is that we really love a boys' name for our current pegnancy that starts with the same letter as our youngest daughter's name (so far we've been careful not to duplicate first initials among our children).

How do you think it would fly if we sent out a double birth announcement when our next baby is born (should it be a boy), something like this? :

"We are delighted to introduce to you our son Barnaby Merit _____.

In light of this development, we would also like to announce that our nearly-two-year-old, previously known as Beatrix Joanna, will henceforth be called Clementine Joanna. We still like Beatrix better, but, you know, you can't have two B's in the same family, so something had to give."

A little neurotic, maybe? ;) Yeah, we'll probably just either bend our rules or keep looking for other boys' names. Or maybe just keep having girls :)

Thanks for the interesting topic! I experienced some name remorse just recently. My daughter, Julia Rose, was born 7 weeks ago. We had the name picked out for several weeks, with Elizabeth as a backup. I had pictured Julia in my mind as having dark hair like her daddy. I was put under for my c-section and upon waking up and looking at my blonde daughter (who looks exactly like me) I said, "She looks like an Elizabeth." My husband and mom exchanged panicked looks, as they had already been calling people telling them her name was Julia! Some days I still think she looks more like an Elizabeth, but I've had Julia picked out for so long and it has so much personal meaning, that I don't think I could have changed it. :) Glad to hear I'm on the only one who has had second thoughts!

My fiance, Matt, was supposed to be named Kevin Matthew, after his father. The family story is that when he came out without his dad's signature red hair, his mom switched the names and lead with the one she liked better! (I have since heard she just didn't want a junior...but I like the first explanation better.)

I also know a friend whose sons are Harlan and Hunter. She's expressed remorse about the second one, thinking it might have been a little much with the Hs. I think it suits him though.

I'm having some mild namer's remorse. My two-year-old's first name (Miranda) fits her like a glove, but I've never been entirely satisfied with her middle name. It is Kimie (pronounced Kim-EE-ay) after a beloved relative. I've considered changing the spelling to the more phonetically correct Kimiye. To top it off, the beloved relative's response to us using her name is that she never really liked her name anyway, and thinks we should have chosen something more special. So that makes me consider scrapping the whole thing and giving her my middle name, Elizabeth. Or maybe two middle names...

Miranda: Kimie is Japanese right? If your daughter is Japanese I think it's very nice to have this nod to her heritage! And I am not fond of the "y" when it is added to Japanese just to make them more pronounceable for English-speakers. I guess it just doesn't jibe with the Romanization I learned, but it bothers me! Especially in a name like Uyeno, where Uweno is much more phonetic!

Valerie: I'm curious. Is Roenne a girl or boy? And how is the name pronounced? (Sorry if I missed this on an earlier thread; I haven't been able to keep up lately.)

Jodi: I definitely would NOT worry about the repeated initial. Only us name-obsessed folks even notice stuff like that. Especially cuz since you've got two others without the B--it's not like only one is left out which might be a little more worrisome.

Too weird. Don't second guess yourselves. The first days or years of parenthood are uncertain enough already. Make a decision and just stick to it.

Roenne and Oliver's sibling - how about Jacob, Stanley, Alfred, Albert (Bertie or Albie), Micah, Rufus. Also agree with your suggestion of Solomon.
I haven't experienced any re-namings but lots of babies seem to sit around for ages while their parents try out different names before they find one that sticks. And I have a friend who was Helen for the first six months of her life before her parents decided to go for her middle name, Mandy.

I think that "Barnaby and Beatrix" would live quite nicely together. I would toss the rule before I changed her name. hee hee

Laura, I think you announcement was well written. I shall have to remember that in case I ever fall prey to Namer's Remorse.

I'd say, as a general rule, you shouldn't explain the reasons for a baby's name, or his new name, in an announcement--most people don't care, it's none of their business anyway, and you may come off sounding defensive or overly precious about the decision.

Imagine if engagement announcements came with explanations: "Mr. and Mrs. James Smith announce the engagement of their daughter, Audrey Lee, to Jeffrey Young. Audrey decided that James was more stable than anyone else she ever dated, even though he's not as cute as her last boyfriend, and not as romantic as the guy she dated in college."

Well, they'd be entertaining, but if they were completely honest, they'd also be TMI!

Oh Jodi, please don't re-name your little girl. If you do, please don't go for a "two-fer" by including her information along with your son's baby announcement. It's a pet peeve of mine whenever new parents go the "two-fer" route (typically for late-autumn babies) by including the baby announcement as part of their holiday card. Just wish they'd send them separately, especially if they have the means.

While I hope never to actually receive a baby re-naming announcement/second birth announcement for the same child, it's a fun little exercise to come up with the wording for such a card! I suppose it should evoke both levity about the unfortunate situation, and love for the baby. Something like this:

***
[With a cute B&W picture of baby]

Right baby, wrong name!

We joyfully announce the re-naming our sweet newborn son, Gabriel Jack. From now on, please join us in calling him

Graham Jonah

Proud, indecisive parents
Mama & Daddy Lastname

Big sisters
Lauren & Claire
**

I'd probably omit the birthdate & vital stats since they were already mailed in the original birth announcement. Emily Post is rolling...

The answer is yes, people in past times did sometimes experience namer's remorse. I've read the papers of various families in the 19c. South where baby names stay pretty fluid for a few months--with letters back and forth between various relations, debating the first choice, offering alternatives.... if letters take, say, two weeks to go between writers, those negotiations can take a while! There was one couple where the son's name was clearly a contentious issue--mama wanted to name her boy after a famous author, while papa was more inclined to name the boy for a grandfather--they used both names, but the order varied depending on who was writing about him.

oops - should have been "re-naming OF our sweet newborn son"

@Lorelei, er, Leigh (or anyone else who knows) - What does "overly precious" mean? Precious is one of those terms I hear a lot but don't fully understand. Thanks!

@RobynT: Roenne is pronounced the same as Rowan. They just decided to spell it that way to make it clear it's a girl. Personally, I prefer the trad spelling.
Lorelei Leigh- LOL! Glad my parents never made an announcement like that!
Thanks everyone for the suggestions for Roenne and Oliver's sibling. I'll wait another day or so and then send them on, so keep them coming if you feel so inclined.

Here is one remorse story and one last minute name change:
1. I think I've told this story before but its on-topic. A friend of mine is the son of a former priest. Before he was born his mother picked out a name for him and was very happy with it. At the birth however, his father was so overcome with joy (and religious duty apparently) that immediately after the cord was cut he took the baby and ran to the nearest water source (a drinking fountain) to baptize the baby. Unfortunately, the only name he could remember was his own, so the baby (my now 30 year old friend) was baptized xyz III. When the father ran back into the birthing room to tell his wife what he'd done (very pleased with himself) his wife apparently yelled at him--but I *hate* the name xyz III!

my friend tells me his mother called him by a series of nicknames and endearments exclusively until he was well into school before coming to terms with it.

2. my sister was supposed to be named Merry. While in the hospital, however, someone did the numerology on Merry and my parents (hippie of course) decided they couldn't go with Merry and switched it to Sar@h. I don't think my mother has ever regretted the switch b/c my sister isn't really a Merry sort of person.

my mother just told me why they changed their minds this summer and probably won't tell my sister for a while. Mom doesn't figure S would be as amused by the numerology as I am.

I should also admit that I wasn't entirely sure about my daughter's name until she grew into it, even though I loved the name. It was my grandmother's though and it took a while before it didn't seem strange. Nor am i entirely settled with my son's name but I figure it will come.

how about:

hi all!

this is kind of embarrassing, after all the money you spent on shower gifts, but we decided to go with a different baby. jayden was just a really trendy, conventional-minded tyke who spit up a lot and pooped a lot and did nothing original that we could embarrass him with later.

so we're "welcoming" joe into the house. we trust he'll be regressively masculine, which is, in itself, original these days. i'm personally hoping he'll be a bit delayed in crawling so i can catch up on my beauty sleep, but we'll see.

point is: you might want to change the names in your christmas card database. wouldn't want to embarrass yourself, would you?

I have friends who did this. The first baby announcement came by email from the husband, announcing baby Ella. Twenty-four hours later there was a second email, from the wife, announcing Kate, and "oops, we changed our minds." Some of us wondered about the state of their marriage.

This is one of the reasons I usually recommend picking a couple favorite, road-tested names before the birth, then spending those days after the birth picking which one seems best.

Because names have taken on such strong connotative meanings, I can easily see someone wondering if they chose the right name as they get to know the child himself. However, in most cases, parents tend to link the name in their mind with the child, and then can't picture their child with another name. It's one of the reasons a lot of parents confuse criticism of the name with criticism of the child.

As for namer's remorse, I don't think it's worth the hassle to change the name unless there's an objective reason it's bad (like the parents didn't realize that the first and last name together form an unpleasant word (like Jenna Side), the first name itself has an unpleasant meaning, or they realize the baby will outgrow the name before the umbilical stump falls off. After all, a baby who doesn't "look" like a Vincent at three days old might do so at age 20, and no longer look like an Ethan.

A friend of mine has a younger sister whose name was changed. Her mother spent two weeks trying to call her by the name that was originally picked and finally decided that it just wouldn't do. I heard that story when I was pregnant with Thomas and kept it in mind after we named him. I really didn't want Thomas myself, but found that every time I looked at him that was just who he was. (I guess that is almost the opposite of namer's remorse). I did take the S off of his middle name, however, and I think that if I said I wanted to put it back on my husband would jump at the chance to change the birth certificate.

I wonder if we had less taboos about changing names if it would be less stressful for people in making the original choice? I have a friend stressing about naming her boy and we've discussed the idea that for most kids those objections go away and the name just becomes the child. I think most of the really big conflicts I've heard about have more to do with the couples way of negotiating and less to do with the actual names. I'm interested in how the conflicts I've heard about paint an interesting picture of the couple -- not that they don't like the same names, but how they deal with the differences.

I couldn't see myself changing a name not because of embarrassment but because once you name the baby that it becomes them (in my mind, not the baby's of course)... I'd have a hard time seeing the baby as anything different after the first few days.

At the same time, I have to admit having a bit of naming remorse over my second son's name. For some reason , I didn't realize that George and Jonathan start with exactly the same sound. DUH! It's only now that I'm using the baby's name that I realize what we've done. I do often mix the names up (it doesn't help that they really look alike!) What is it going to be like when I am eighty and losing my marbles?!

my aunt was originally named Janet. when my grandmother's sister came over to meet the baby, the first thing she said was "she doesn't look like a Janet! she looks like a Debbie!"
so they changed her name to Debra Ann. when she got to school, her 2 best friends (who she is still best friends with today) were also named Debra/Deborah Ann and they all had last names beginning with the same initial. their other good friend is "just Ann."
maybe my grandmother should have stuck with Janet after all!

Naming is tough. I had namer's remorse for over a year with my (Graham). It wasn't that I had another specific name in mind though...that would be a slightly different story and I might've considered a change. I just didn't feel he was a Graham exactly, you know? The funny thing is that he was named Witt for the first two days and I have never looked back with regret about not naming him that.

I fear for the one in my belly. In this pregnancy I have settled whole-heartedly on several names only to disregard them later (Cedar, Newton, Cannon). What if I'd been set on one of those names at the time of birth? Ack. Now I'm 100% in favor of Bishop (with Wheeler and Silas as backups). Hubby isn't convinced though and I'm only 25 weeks along, so who knows what will happen. Thoughts??

"Overly Precious" (hey, that might be my next posting name!)... the dictionary definition would be "very fastidious, overrefined, or affected, as in behavior, language, etc." In the case of naming, to my mind, it's someone who assumes everyone else is fascinated with the exquisite perfection of the name they chose, and the details of their monumental decision. To be honest, unless people ask, they're probably not even a tiny bit curious.

It's different here on a naming board, of course!

I wanted to name our daughter Anne. DH wanted Juliet. So we named her Anne Juliet and agreed that he would name the next child (which he did). But when she was born, the first thing everyone noticed was how much dark, almost black hair she had - just like my husband's. And although her eyes were blue, they were that dark, dark blue that usually turns brown (they are now golden-green). So, in short, she just LOOKED so much more like a Juliet than an Anne. An Anne is freckled (like me), not a raven-haired beauty. So anyway, at about 6 weeks of age, we told our family we were going to start calling her Juliet. I thouht it would be hard to transition, but it wasn't and now I can't image her any other way.

Juliag:
I don't care for Bishop, but I really like Silas. I have a feeling there are other names out there in the same family, too... I'll have to think about it.

@juliag - You're having a boy? Bishop isn't necessarily the first name I'd think of when I imagine "Graham's brother," but if you absolutely love it, I say go with it! You could also consider: Parrish, Oliver, Sebastian, Pierce, Miles, Duncan, Jonas, & Elijah

@Lorelei, er, Leigh - thanks for the great definition - now I get it!

I know a family who named their son Elv1s, but because of family and friends' ridicule and pressure renamed him Dyl@n. I think happened when he was about 6 weeks. He's now about 15 and Dylan fits him perfectly. It's too bad, though. I know we were had a lot of negative reinforcement from our families (but not friends!) with our first son. I couldn't imagine renaming him.

For both our boys we had shortlists of both girl and boy names and decided to wait until the morning to name them. (Both were born around 11pm.)

My sister was three weeks old before she had a name! While I think that's pushing it, I like that my folks found the right name for her instead of picking one beforehand and making it stick regardless of who she seemed to be. But that's just me. I can see why folks pick out names before the child is born, too.

juliag- I ADORE Silas. Bishop is less my style, but I can see both going with Graham.

Valerie - my captcha is 'and Stephen' -why not throw that on the list, too? ;)

Cathie - interesting that you have 2 boys named George & Jonathan. My sister's first choice for a full name for a baby boy is Jonathan George.

Valerie, since Rowan and Oliver are two of my favorite names for boys (yes, I know Roenne is a girl, but...), here are some of my other favorites that might fit:
Silas
August
Callum
Sylvan
Alden
Linden
Sage
Forrest
Graham

I'd love to hear what they pick!

------------------------------------------------
It's a girl!

Jennifer and Brian Myers welcome their first child

AUDREY ELIZABETH [<--typed, crossed out] ANNIKA JOYCE [<--handwritten]

September 18, 2008
7 lbs, 2oz. 21 inches
------------------------------------------------

Oops...we knew we'd make mistakes in parenting, but who knew we'd need two tries to get the name right?

Please join us in calling our precious new daughter Annika Joyce.

[picture of baby]

Brian and Jennifer

My sister-in-law had a spelling change after she was born. Her parents had definitely decided on Christen Jewel, but say that they never really thought about the spelling. So "Christen" went on the birth certificate since it was the first thing they thought of. A few days later, they realized that they wanted it spelled "Christin", so they have just been spelling it that way since.

My parents were all set to name me Allison Kathleen up until a day or so before I was born when my mom suddenly decided she couldn't stand Allison, and the only other name they both agreed on was Kari.

Juliag - what if he grows up to be a bishop? Then he'd be Bishop Bishop...

Silas is too like silage for me.

Karen -- yep, we thought about this when we were considering the name Dean! My husband and I are both university professors and so we deal with a lot of deans. We were thinking Dean Dean would be kind of funny. Much less likely that our kid would grow up to be a bishop ;)...but one never knows, right?

juliag-- My take on "Bishop" is that it is interesting, off-beat. But then I'm a bit partial to some of the less-popular, occupational/surnames.

It isn't on the currently stylish, "sanctioned" roster, so my guess is you won't necessarily get much affirmation for the choice. For about ten years. Then suddenly people will say, hey, brilliant! By the way, isn't "Deacon" creeping up in popularity? I like it.

The occasional "name-shorteners" he will find at school and elsewhere, might nickname him "Bish" among others. Some namers might blanch at that, (and the unfortunate variants that might occur!), but not others.

Even though "Silas" IS one of the currently fashionable names, I like both it and "Wheeler". Don't see how you can go wrong with any of the three, since you like all of them.

My mother's cousin and his wife did this with their second daughter. When she was born the word went round the family that her name was, well, it was a derivative spelling of Holly. Then, about six weeks later, the birth announcement came round for Antoinette. No mention of previous name, but my grandmother helpfully called and said they'd changed their minds and legally changed her name. No big deal. So, it can be done.

Perhaps it would have been weirder to deal with if I had ever met her.

I have another friend who learned as an adult that his name, Michael, was (mis)spelled Michal on his birth certificate. Being the kind of guy he is, he immediately made sure he was Michal forever going forward. Has that happened to anyone other than him and Oprah?

Now, a confession: despite my interest in baby names, I am hugely superstitious about referring to the baby by the chosen name before it's born. (By which I mean, my SIL announced her last pregnancy by texting me in February: Katy Anne will be born in August. When my niece was born the spelling had changed but the name hadn't.) I just think it's very risky. What if something awful happens? What if you do change your mind, and Jayden does become Xavier? Mothers I've worked with have mentioned hospital employees using the potential name pre-birth as well, and I can't tell you how disturbing I find that.

Am I crazy? Do any actual parents have thoughts on this?

I continue to feel a mild form of namer's remorse - I feel utter delight and joy when I think of my younger two children's names, but my oldest was a compromise with my husband and I continue to feel somewhat dissatisfied with it. My husband is delighted by it, however, so I figure it's worth it!

A couple of years ago I dealt with my parents' longstanding naming mistake and changed my first name ... it continues to be a challenge as many places (websites, doctors) don't have systems in place for changing a first name. My family and friends have taken a long time getting used to the new name - but I don't mind, because I am thrilled and feel so much happier and more confident now that I have shaken off my clunky old name and have one that really fits my personality. A different twist on namer's remorse, as they did the naming and I had the three decades of remorse!

Jodi -- Please don't rename Beatrix because she would share a first initial with her brother. Beatrix is hands down one of my favorites now, and I'm always thrilled to hear about little Beatrixes IRL.

juliag -- I like Silas the best. I have friends who have two sons, Martin (nn Marty) and Silas.

Sarah -- I'm not sure I'd describe myself as "hugely superstitious," but my husband and I kept the names we were considering just between us until our daughter was born (although I might have shared with this community had it existed). However, once we identified two girl names, in my mind I always thought of the baby as being one of them (the one we ended up choosing). (FWIW, we didn't know the sex ahead of time.)

I know a family who changed tehir daughters name from Danielle to Tessa Danielle because her grandparents hated the name Danielle. Tessa does who better with her brothers names though, they are called Jamie and Tristen.

Nicole S. and Amy3 - Don't worry, we would never really consider changing Bea's name. It is her through and through, and we do both love it. Now, calling her Trix rather than Bea in order to de-emphasize the duplicated initial... that's more of a possibility. She currently gets called both, but more often Bea, probably. In any case, I was mostly just bemoaning how her name has upset our naming options for this baby, but it will no boubt work itself out :) (Thanks for the compliments on her name, btw!)

Sarah, I, too, have an aversion to calling a baby by name before it's born, but for different reasons. 1. I feel like there's not an awful lot to announce when the baby is born if everyone already knows her by name. Like, "Ellie's here and she weighs 8lbs!" is just a little lacking, somehow. 2. It makes the parents feel trapped into their choice. My cousin began calling her daughter Leah soon after her ultrasound. At some point, she decided she preferred Lydia, but as she expressed this to friends and family, it was met with, "But she's Leah!" In the end, she went with Leah, but I don't think she was entirely happy with it. With her second (a boy they called Mark) she didn't discuss names with *anyone* and kept her options open until he arrived.

"I just think it's very risky. What if something awful happens?"

It's certainly risky because it makes a change of plans more awkward.

But if by "something awful" you mean a late miscarriage or a baby who doesn't live very long, it's not necessarily a bad thing to have that name already given. I know it seems morbid to some, but that's just our general discomfort with death. For a lot of families, it helps with the grieving to name the person they were hoping to know better. NICU nurses strongly encourage families to name tiny/delicate babies who might not make it long--because the alternative is so distancing, and the NICU situation already makes bonding more difficult.

A Misunderstanding with Mr Stork

We thought she was a Mia,
Our Mia Madeleine.
Turns out she is a Leah.
(we kept the middle same).
We thought you'd want to know,
that this is her real name.

The Letter K -- I love the poem! Well done.

I grew up with a girl who was originally named Hannah and five days later she became (and remained) Elisabeth nn Buffy. As a young NE, I always thought that was the coolest thing ever--Buffy got to have 3 names!

DH and I have always said that we don't want to rush into naming, but we'll see how that actually plays out when we start having children. In a perfect world, we would go into each birth with several suitable names for a boy or a girl and choose one that fits after we meet the child. However, the flaw in the plan is that we would have to agree on 'several suitable names' and that seems like it could pose problems. :)

Regarding referring to the child by name during the pregnancy, it does seem a bit premature to me. However, I suppose if one is not an NE and one has not been naming imaginary childen for 20 years prior to a real pregnancy and one does not regularly get caught by her DH muttering names under her breath to see how they sound and ones does not feel that naming a child is the culmination of years of research and study and love affairs with various names, then perhaps that would be less problematic. I have a friend who is due in a month, and she and her hubby have chosen Ari for a boy and Ariel for a girl. The whole family has been referring to the child as baby Ari for months. Baby Ari's older siblings are Ash3r L0ren, M3lina 3lizabth, 3den Abig@il and S@muel D@vid.

I am enjoying your updated birth announcements!

I never renamed any of my children, but I had that same 'unsureness' that parents have, mostly with #1 and #3. It was more profound with #3, to the point that I was still wondering when she was one if we should have named her Kira (her mn) instead of Ev@ngeline. When she started preschool a few weeks ago I went through a similar kind of thing wondering if we should have them call her Ev@ngeline or her nn Eva or her other nn B1tsy, which she introduces herself as. Now that she's not a baby I *am* glad we didn't call her Kira. And at this point I *think* I am okay with her being Ev@ngeline at school... I'll get back to you on that one. ;)

julieg, I *love* your name style! Bishop is so cool.

Someone please correct me, but it's my understanding that in the past (I mean pre-late-19th c. in the west) it could take a while for a child to be named--until baptism or even until the next one was born and s/he stopped being "the baby."

Now you've got to get in and get out of the hospital, and you have limited time to choose a name, and you can't leave until there is SOMETHING written on the birth certificate. So there isn't really any room to "spend some time" with your infant and decide what to name him.

I can definitely see how someone who felt rushed into naming because of this might experience remorse later on, and wish to change the name (although what we mostly seem to be talking about here is "We had planned for seven months to call her Hecuba, but when she came out, she just looked more like an Andromache," which is a different dilemma).

In any case, just having finished the agonizing process of changing my name after marriage (it somehow took a YEAR for the people handling these things--at all levels, from DMV and social security to the pharmacy and the public library--to understand how a relatively simple name change works), I don't think I would go through the frustration of changing an infant's name, except in dire straits.

I do know a family that changed their child's name. When he was born they told everyone that his name was Josiah. But when I saw her again a few weeks later she said his name was Yoshiyahu (the Hebrew transliteration of Josiah) and they'd changed it because people were calling him Joe and they hated that. His nn is Yoshi.

"you can't leave until there is SOMETHING written on the birth certificate"

Yes you can. Maternity wards like to get all the paperwork done, and it is EASIER to let them handle the mailing and all that (you'll be a little busy, eh?), but you can do it yourself afterwards, if you want to.

But don't take too long, because.... You can't claim a kid as a dependent on tax forms, or start a savings account for them, without a social security number, and for THAT you need a name. And health insurance policies may give you only a 30-day window in which to add your new dependent's name to the policy. If your new baby needs a passport, you'll need to get cracking. So for all those reasons, yes, there's a bit of a hustle that didn't used to pressure new parents.

I have a friend who was considering the name Natalie for her unborn child. The future big sister picked up on the name. Now the parents feel that they can't change it because it would be too confusing for big sis.

@Sarah - I'm right there with you about being very superstitious about telling the world an unborn baby's name before an actual Healthy Newborn arrives. I'm sure I sound like a complete Pollyanna, but it strikes me as tempting fate/taunting Mother Nature, to be so SURE, so CERTAIN that one's baby is going to be born healthy. Odds are, everyone will be fine, though I do happen to know of 3 couples where things went horribly, tragically wrong - yes, it happens, even with all of the technology available today.

For similar reasons, I'm also not a fan of prenatal baby showers and registries, where your friends help foot the bill for your lifestyle choice. IMHO, much better to have a non-relative give you a small party (sans gift registry) when the baby is around 6 mos. old, has had her shots, and is cute & sociable.

Two stories about my kids naming. Sorry if they're long.
#1 My ds was born 6wks early. We knew he was a boy. Before conception even my dh and I had talked about names. We had decided he was Zachary Alexander. After learning we were having a boy we began referring to this name in conversations. It seemed too long. We were debating what else there was and then he developed a condition which required my hospitalization before his birth. I was getting ultrasounds daily. After the first 2 days of the tech coming in, she asked "Does this little guy have a name because I feel like I am invading his privacy (lol) and would like to call him something"? My dh and I looked at each other and decided on 3ric M@tth3w because it was the last name (and pretty much only one) we could agree on.

#2 With my dd we had several names picked out ahead of time. Again when we had discussed names before conception we had chosen Samantha Renee. So we went to the hospital 3 wks early this time because I developed pre-eclampsia. So after the birth, my notebook came out with a list of 5 or 6 names and middle names as well. As an aside, I had had a dream about having a girl with very dark curly hair who was a Samantha-my girl was not. After thinking of and trying out every possible combo on her we decided (through tears because it still didn't FEEL right-and she didn't LOOK like a Samantha) on N@t@li3 R3n33.
I still to this day, she's almost 5, sometimes wonder if she would have a different personality if she had been Kimberley Elizabeth. My husband still wonders -what I meant by not LOOKING like a Samantha, what do Samantha's look like? Do kids grow into their names or do names grow into the kids??

At the end of the previous thread, someone was commenting about how fathers-to-be often shoot down perfectly good names by saying, "I knew someone named ___ once. He was a jerk!"

The ironic thing is, *I* do this. For many of the names we think about, I say, "Ewww, there was a girl in junior high with that name and I didn't like her." Or, "it reminds me of that actress/murder victim/soap opera character"... etc etc etc.

How do you all separate the sounds of nice names from ick associations? Obviously, it is easier with common names, since we have probably known several people by that name, rather than with somewhat rarer names, which are forever attached to the original owner in my mind.

@Amy3 - We approached naming our child exactly the same way you did, keeping the names we were considering just between us until our son's birth. (Like you, I might have shared with this community had it existed!) We also didn't know the sex ahead of time & had both a boy's name and a girl's name selected.

We figured what good can come from telling people IRL the name you've picked out? That said, it annoys me when people fib. A friend went around telling everyone that she was going to name her daughter Laurel - then she named her baby Amelie - saying that's what she had intended to name her all along & didn't want anyone to "steal it." Okaayyy... why lie? Why not just say "we're keeping it a secret?" I suppose this all falls into Overly Precious territory! ;)

Nicole S:
Right, but even if something does go wrong, the baby still needs a name, so where is the harm?

@Jane, I believe the harm's not in the naming the unborn baby, but in the TELLING the world all about it a little too soon.

I was going through some old things recently, and was really upset to find a favor from a baby shower I attended for Baby P*****, when her mother was 6 months pregnant with her. Sadly, the baby was stillborn. So, the practice gives me pause, that's all I'm saying.

Superstition or not, understand, please, you CANNOT harm your fetus by giving them a name, or by saying it out loud. That kind of magical thinking can lead to SO much unnecessary guilt and pain. The real risks are hard enough to live with.

Some parents think they protect themselves from grief by delaying naming--but honestly, I've never known a parent who lost a newborn who said "Well at least he didn't have a name." You'll pretty much grieve no matter what, name or no name. In fact, a name may actually help some parents' grieving process.

Speaking of naming dead newborns... My ggaunt had only one baby. A boy. He died about 12 hours after he was born. My mom recalls her talking about the baby and everytime she would say "...we never named him. But I have always called him John." It seems to me like a clashing of 2 ideas. A. if you dont name them they dont exist. B. Every mother knows her childs name. Even if it is only in her heart.

I have a friend who lost a girl at 22 weeks about 8 years ago. They never named her. They had a burial and memorial service. They held her and cried over her. But they never named her. They had started talking about names but had not totally decided yet. When baby #2 came along they both were very aware that the name they had been most likely to choose for the first baby was forever ruined. They will never use it. Yet, nor do they refer to that baby by "her name". She has no name. It all strikes me as odd.

Nicole S -- We didn't go so far as to lie, but what my husband used to do when asked what names we were considering was to say the name of the person asking. Of course, he didn't do this when his mom asked again and again and again. We just told her we hadn't decided and weren't sharing. I would do the same again.

Re: naming a dead newborn, I would name the baby. I guess the question I have to ask myself is whether I'd use the name I'd selected or would I use something else. I'm not sure.

We changed our daughter's name from Margaret to Ingrid before we left the hospital with her. Luckily, the paperwork could be changed before it became official.

Nicole S. - but telling people the name and having a baby shower doesn't cause something to go wrong. It is equally horrible regardless of whether you've told the name and whether or had a shower, I would think.

Aybee, your mention of Harlan and Hunter reminded me of an acquaintance with four kids named

Harley
Haden
Harper
Hudson

Can you guess the genders?

Wow, Lorelei, er, Leigh! I was reading from an unrefreshed list of comments and hadn't seen yours when I posted mine. You said what I meant, only more eloquently. Great minds, you know. ;-)

I think it's a little weird to name the baby before it's born too. I didn't realize this until this summer when my friend and her family were calling her sister's fetus Maya. I guess it is partially superstition on my part--which is weird cuz I'm not really superstitious... just seems like counting your eggs before they hatch I guess? And also I think, yeah, if it were me, I'd like to be able to change my mind up until the end.

This reminds me of a book I read that talked about online forums for women trying to conceive, who had trouble conceiving, or had miscarriages or other reproductive problems. The women had signatures with like avatars of themselves and if they had lost children they would usually have a memorial in their signature, sometimes with the ultrasound photo, and often with the name, birthdate and/or when they died, weight, height. One of the things the author, Lisa Nakamura, said was that these women didn't really have a place to talk about this.

I think it's ok to lie about the name, as long as it's obvious. For example, a colleague told people his son was going to be called Slobadan (no, he wasn't Serbian, and this was about the time Milosevic was being tried for war crimes). Funny thing is, I don't remember what the real name turned out to be.

Regarding names for not-yet-born children, I think many people like to have a name to call them, but it's not necessarily the name they intend to call the baby. We called our foetus Moonsong, but we wouldn't call a baby that.

I guess I'd consider things like Slobadan more of place holder names that everyone knows the kid isn't actually getting named, but is instead something to call the baby before it's officially named and not a lied about name. Sort of like "the bump" or "peanut".

Also, Dh and I have picked a girl's name (Erin B3atrix Bail3y) and now are trying to decide on a boy's name. He loves Aaron and I like Ian, either way the mn would be Cooper Keith. Anyone think it's weird that we'd basically name the kid the same name regardless of gender?

First, on topic, I have experienced namer's remorse with my son Hayden. I still love the name and think it is a very handsome name, but it irritates me some that there are so many sound alikes, especially Aidens and Cadens, running around. I have to pronounce his name carefully when telling people, or else they assume I'm saying Aiden, since it is so much more common around here. Then, I was also concerned about so many girls taking on the name. I don't know what other name I would give him, however. And, like I said, I still love the name itself.

Carry-over from previous thread:

EssBee - Thanks for your input on our names. When dh added Rhianna to the list I asked "Isn't there a singer with that name?" I had not thought about the singer Aaliyah. Not very familiar with her, but now that I see the name, it does ring a bell. Don't want people thinking we named our child after either. I have similar issue with Selene. Although dh added the name to the list based after the main character in the sci-fi movie "The Underworld", I'm afraid people will hear it and associate it with Celine Dion. Regarding Lena, it has been one of my favorites for awhile, but dh has the same issue you have with pronunciation. Apparently, the first couple times I mentioned the name to him, he thought I was saying Layna. He also thinks, based on the spelling, that it could be mistakenly pronounced LEH-na. Until this naming process, I never realized how we can see the same names written and assume different pronunciations for them. That's why I added the 'h' at the end of Sorenah, because it looked like sor-EE-nuh to me without it. I was saying ree-AH-nuh and he was saying ree-ANN-uh. etc.

My dh is one who constantly discounts naming options b/c he knew someone by that name in grade school. The latest, Tirzah suggested Anders as an alternative for our list. He said, "No, don't like it. I knew a FN Anders in school and I couldn't stand him"

So, currently, Soren James is looking like our top pick for a boy. Still undecided on a girl name, but leaning toward Sorenah Caroline, I think. I don't think I'm going to totally decide this time until the baby is born.

Still open to suggestions, although dh will most likely shoot them down. ;)

My baby was Oscar in utero. My brother's kids are Ralph/ My other brother - should they ever have kids - will be Calvin. We put the fun in dysfunctional.

WHOA!!! Hold on there. I hope you didn't actually think I was suggesting that "harm" is "caused" to a baby because the parents held a prenatal baby shower or because they told everyone the child's name before she was born!! Come on, people! Really? As a secular humanist, I can assure you there is no magical thinking of any kind going on here, I promise!

The "harm" I referred to was in response to Jane's comment, and it concerned the PRUDENCE of these cultural norms. No causation to any bad outcomes here! Not even a correlation! I'm surprised anyone gleaned that from what I wrote, so I am sorry for being unclear.

As someone who lost a child late in pregnancy I have thought about these issues long and hard.
I think today's culture is often one of denial about stillbirth and neo-natal death. We are encouraged to believe that nothing can go wrong, and the way that many people know the sex of their baby and name it months before it is born can bolster this belief. It doesn't cause anything to go wrong (obviously) but it can add to the shock and sense of total disbelief when things do go wrong.

When I was pregnant the third time, after I had lost Daniel, I hardly told anyone I was pregnant, and could never feel confident enough to buy baby products or talk about 'when the baby arrives' But in Holland, where we were living the custom is to order birth cards before the baby is born, and have them ready for both a girl or a boy so all you have to do is call the printers when the baby is born and tell them what you've had. Funnily enough going to the printer and seeing the proofs with the two possible names (Judah Ariel or Anna Verity, since you ask!) was something I had been dreading, but was actually a very powerful feeling of positive confidence that the baby would be OK, which thankfully he was. I remember standing in that printers and feeling excited about the baby for the first time.

As regards naming a lost baby - the night before Daniel was born we debated - do we give him the name we had chosen for our first son, or do we go for our second choice - Elijah - and save our special name, Daniel, should we have another boy. We felt that it was his name, we had wanted a son named Daniel and now we had him. To give him a 'second best' name was unworthy. It's not a decision we ever regretted, although sometimes it was hard as Daniel is such a popular name.

I know other posters here have shared similar experiences, and I hope they would agree with me that naming a lost baby is one of the most positive, comforting and normal aspects of an otherwise utterly bleak experience. And being able to tell a grieving mother what a beautiful name she has chosen for her child is also very important.

"To give him a 'second best' name was unworthy."

Oh Keren, I felt the same way in the NICU. Giving my son our best, most hope-filled name felt like an act of defiance in the face of all the bad news and discouraging information blasting at us. If anyone needed a great name, it was that tiny boy.

I suspect that's why a lot of preemies get names like Blessing and Precious and Angel--you want to give them something special, when you're barely allowed to touch them. It's an emotional place to be.

Keren,

Daniel is a beautiful name. It would have been Jonah's name if DH didn't have the name Dan.

I am so sorry for you loss.

Jenny

Hi. Sorry to take this conversation of course, but I am looking for some clarification. How is the name Isobel pronounced? Is it pronounced like Isabel or more like EYE-so-bell?

Thanks!

Keren -- Thank you for sharing your experience. You make a beautiful case not only for naming a baby you've lost, but also bestowing the name you'd planned to give. And, just as a side note, Daniel is a wonderful name.

Isobel is pretty much the same sound as Isabel--just a different spelling.

I have slight namer's remorse with my daughter. One of my greatest character weaknesses is that I am extremely self conscious and care way too much for the opinions of others. This caused me to name my daughter Hannah in 2006, thinking it was a safe choice that would be approved of by most. Hannah is a beatiful name, but way too Jewish for a "cutesty bootsy" all-American blonde haired, blue eyed girl like my daughter.Especially since we have an extremely English last name. Not that it's a huge deal, I think lots of Christian girls are being given Jewish names these days. I just think a name like Katie or Libby would have fit her looks and personality a lot better. She's so spunky and fun she seems to need a name that ends in the cutesy, fun ee sound. However, I would never change her name because Hannah is a perfectly respectable name. I just wish I could shorten it. Hannie just doesn't do it for me. Besides, I think lots of Christian girls are being named Jewish names like Hannah these days, so I don't think most non NE would ever make the association.

Interestingly, I'm really surprised how many people aren't even aware that Hannah is biblical. I guess that's because she just gets a short little blurb in the Old Testament in one of the less exciting "skip over" books.

I should have previewed before posting. I wasn't trying to intentionally over emphasize the point that a lot of non-Jewish people were bestowing Jewish names on their children these days.

http://politsk.blogspot.com/2008/09/sarah_13.html

sarah palin baby name generator

just wanted to thank all the posters on this site - my daughter was born yesterday and thanks to Aybee on this site she has a name.

i had picked cluadia about 10 years ago for my girls name and was set to use it for my first girl when my SIL snatched it from me (not really, just felt that way) 5 weeks before due date. So i posted on this blog (on my due date) and asked for major, urgent help.

Thankyou thankyou aybee and others - we went with Audrey as it is phonetically similar and is also a very old, strong name (IMO a lot of girls names are very very pretty but a tad eager to please). Not so keen on the audrey hepburn connection but on the up side it means she won't be spelling her name out over a phone her whole life.

Anyhoo, just wanted to post and say thanks!

Keren, thanks for sharing your story. There is just something "special" about the name Daniel, for people of many different ethnicities and religious backgrounds. Every time I hear it spoken, I think of how beautiful the sounds are together. It is one of the only very-popular, oft-used names for which its long-term popularity makes not a whit of difference to me.

I have a friend who couldn't agree with her husband on a last name. So they left the hospital without naming their son. They tentatively decided to use the husband's last name but she wanted to let it settle but the used it on the announcements. The hospital called for months after he was born and around 9 months they agreed to use both last names smashed together. So informally they told everyone that the last name changed and I'm sure some folks still don't know. I would think this would have been settled well earlier but to each his own.

I have a friend who couldn't agree with her husband on a last name. So they left the hospital without naming their son. They tentatively decided to use the husband's last name but she wanted to let it settle but the used it on the announcements. The hospital called for months after he was born and around 9 months they agreed to use both last names smashed together. So informally they told everyone that the last name changed and I'm sure some folks still don't know. I would think this would have been settled well earlier but to each his own.

I had a friend years ago who had a younger sister named Jessica. One day, after we hadn't seen her for several years she and her sister came to a party. She kept referring to her sister as Claire and it wasn't for an hour or so until one of us voiced that we were sure her name didn't used to be Claire. Turns out that when Jessica starter prep (at about 5 years old) there were three other Jessica's in her class, so her family changed her name to the out of nowhere Claire.

Claire would be about 15 now and apparently hasn't suffered too much from the change of identity.

Anouk-

I am so happy I could help!

Audrey is a beautiful, timeless name. Congratulations on your daughter, I wish you the best.

Audrey's a *great* alternative if you already love Claudia but get "scooped"--the same "Aud" in there, eh? I know nice little girls with both names, so they seem like very sweet, current names to me.

Anouk-Congrats on Audrey! Wonderful name!

Keren-Beautiful story!
LL-The NICU can be a horrible place, but also one of hope as in our case. I am glad we named our son prior to his birth and I wouldn't have changed his name either because it was his. It means defender/strong and gift from God.

Kristi-Soren James was my vote. Sorenah Caroline is pretty too. I agree by addint the "h" you have a better chance of people using a "short e sound" like in get. Other ideas for pronounceable, non-confusing spelling, would maybe be:
Celeste, Sienna, or Sylvia

Re:in utero names-we called my ds Neon and my dd Tinkerbell(both similar to little light). I have a friend who used Little Roo.

Keren-- Ditto all the plaudits for "Daniel". One of my favorite traditional names. Totally apart from the actor's persona, I love the lilting sound of "Daniel Day-Lewis". Perfect for a marquee or anywhere.

I wonder if Daniels these days have trouble with people unwarrantedly shortening their names to Dan or Danny? Imagine it is easier now to keep the formal name going, if preferred.

By the way, came across the Cornish nickname for "George"-- "Jory". Wish I had known that during our discussion of the name George. Jory makes a delightful addition to other George nicknames "Ged" and "Geo"...

Cornish names are often a great source of interesting variants-- they seem to have that magical Arthurian or Tolkien-esque flavor.

anouk-- "Audrey" is splendid. I also like the strong, non-frilliana aspect of the name, yet it is very feminine as well. Much like "Claudia"!

Re George nicknames above: And of course, the much-loved Scottish "Geordie", as in Louisa May Alcott's "Eight Cousins". Let's see, Archie, Charlie, Mac, Stephen, Geordie, Will and Jamie.
Gems all.

Nicole, I understood what you meant by having a bad feeling about the name being announced and used before the baby is born. It doesn't sit right with me either. But I have no rational reason for it.

The thing I really do not understand is baby shower before the baby is born and registries. Maybe that's because I'm not from the US. I just feels wrong to celebrate before the baby is born, anything can go wrong. Registries seem very rude to me, I wouldn't want to tell people what to buy.

Naming a child is so difficult, I'm sure most people doubt the choice for a while. I know I will!

anouk -- Congratulations on Audrey! A beautiful alternative to Claudia. Enjoy your little girl.

I too have similar concerns not about referring to a baby by name in utero, it just makes me uncomfortable as if I was tempting fate and I am not normally a superstitious person at all. DH and I are going to buck the trend totally and not even find out the sex of the baby either.

Up until the day I was born I was going to be a Jennifer. I am so glad that my parents chose Fiona instead!

I also think that it is interesting that in American names like Hannah are regarded as Jewish names. I have a few friends called Hannah (blondes and brunettes) and none of them are Jewish and I am pretty sure it didn't figure into their parents thoughts at the time. Probably because New Zealand's Jewish population is very small I guess.

Oh, I think that is another reason I think it's weird to definitively name the baby before birth: you hear so many stories where predictions of baby's sex are wrong. Or are predictions more accurate today?

I don't think there is anything wrong with registries. I love shopping for babies but if I don't have time, the registry makes it easy. I think you are always allowed to go off the registry too.

"I just feels wrong to celebrate before the baby is born, anything can go wrong."

My feeling is that a shower is a welcoming--and a baby who has serious and unexpected complications (like my son) still deserves to be welcomed and celebrated by friends and family. It doesn't even have to involve gifts; but remember, a baby with unexpected medical or other needs will still require clothing, diapers, etc. Maybe more than others, even--a family spending the first few weeks at the hospital isn't going to be in any position to be shopping.

Sex as predicted by amnio or CVS is darn close to 100% accurate--they're looking at the baby's chromosomes, and it's not hard to tell XX from XY. It's pretty safe to say "it's a girl" after an amnio. Sex as predicted by ultrasound is far less accurate--in that case, it's probably best to hedge your bets, and have a just-in-case name for each gender. (Although, my daughter's 34-week ultrasound was very, ah, explicit--she wasn't shy, it was all pretty obvious to everyone in the room.)

Kristi - May I suggest Sorenna or Sorennah if you want to make sure it's not pronounced SorEEna(h). I think that extra "N" definitely softens the "E".

And I love the name Audrey -- timeless!

Anouk- Congratulations on Audrey. A lovely name and it definitely has the same feel as Claudia to me.

Zoerhenne- Sienna was on our long list but I was afraid it was becoming too trendy. Not in the top 100 yet, but definitely on the rise over the last couple years. Celeste is NMS. I think I have a negative association with it, just can't quite place it. I think Sylvia is a lovely name. It doesn't immediately hit me as being right, but is worthy of consideration.

Kai- I am American and just think of Hannah as Biblical. Have come across many little Hannah's in the church over the years.

janet- Thanks for that suggestion. I had considered that, but when I wrote it out it looked odd at the time. But now, seeing it typed, it doesn't look odd at all. Must have been my handwriting that day or something! :)

Re: in utero or "belly names"- our twins were called Albert and Bob, for Baby 'A' and Baby 'B'.

Kristi:
I agree with Janet. If you really don't want people saying Sor-EE-nah, you pretty much have to put in a second N because with only one N after the E most people are going to revert to the most general rules of phonics which will tell them to say the long EE sound.

Regarding ultrasounds: according to my stepfather (an OBGYN), it's quite rare to see a boy on the ultrasound and deliver a girl. More mistakes are made in the opposite direction. So if your doctor says it's a boy, based on ultrasound, you can be pretty sure. (Not that mistakes don't happen!)

My namer's remorse story:

I knew ever since before he was conceived that our first son would be named August Lee. Also before I conceived, I babysat a darling little 2-year-old named Isaac everyday Monday through Friday for a couple of months.

Fast forward a year; I bring home a darling little baby boy named August Lee, except that I'm calling him Isaac.

I was worried that I had picked the wrong name, but after a couple of months of correcting myself and figuring that I was just used to calling a little boy in the house "Isaac", everything got better. I started automatically calling him by his own name, and he grew into his name so well that he is no longer in any danger of being mistaken for someone else.

Whew!

Re: name changes

My cousin was named after his birth father. His parents divorced and his birth father was no longer a part of his life. So, when his mother married my uncle, she and my cousin decided it was time to change his name (he was about 5 at the time). I knew him before the name change but can't remember now what his name was before (it was about 20 years ago). Now he is Cody.

ktc, I'm Erin and my DD is B3atrix C@r0l, so I'm a fan of your name choice! We thought she'd be a Trixie but for now she's Bea. (For the record, DS is Ron@n Edg@r -- Edg@r being Dh's grandmother's maiden ln.)

I love this blog and am kinda sad that we're not having more kids, simply b/c I love the name game so much!

Also, I'm one who doesn't reveal name choices before the birth simply for the surprise factor. With DD, our second, we didn't know gender and didn't reveal names on the list, so it was tons of fun to make those phone calls.

-e

Keren said, "I think today's culture is often one of denial about stillbirth and neo-natal death. We are encouraged to believe that nothing can go wrong, and the way that many people know the sex of their baby and name it months before it is born can bolster this belief. It doesn't cause anything to go wrong (obviously) but it can add to the shock and sense of total disbelief when things do go wrong."

Absolutely. I know this to be true because things went wrong for us, too. We buried our daughter when she would have been one week old.

Lorelei, when your child passes away it's a permanent loss. You should not compare it to a child's stay in the NICU. The feelings are not the same, and I'm glad for you that you wouldn't know the difference. You probably meant well, but need to be made aware of the fact that those kinds of comparisons can be deeply offensive to those of us who have buried our children.

Nicole, Nina, and Kai, I agree with you about the sense of discomfort with public use of an unborn baby's name and with showers, though I never felt this way until after we lost her.

Keren, I am so sorry for your loss. Daniel is a terrific name.

Lorelei, I'm glad your little one has come through his difficult arrival into the world.

Of course all births should be celebrated and all babies, healthy or not, should be welcomed.

Everyone will certainly have different opinions on when the name becomes 'official' and I hope I am not being inappropriately personal in any of my comments. Naming a child is such a personal, private decision and I wouldn't want to impose my feelings on the choices someone else would make.

Hm - perhaps that's why I feel those heebie-jeebies when names are used about a baby before its birth. Naming a child is a private decision, and it shouldn't be taken out of the parents' hands, no matter how much everybody talks about it. And I guess I really think it shouldn't stop being a private decision until after the baby is born. Or perhaps, as was suggested above, once the privacy's been invaded by being operated on in utero. (Jiminy Cricket, that must have been tough.) Anne Enright wrote something about this private feeling and the name of her daughter in her book Making Babies. I'll have to go hoke it out and read it again.

adb - I am so sorry for your loss too.

My aunt had 4 babies who were fullterm and who all died within several weeks after birth.She was under the care of a renowned doctor and it was many, many years ago. She never had a child who lived. Anyway, she named and baptized all four: Michael, Drusilla(Dru), Brian and Bruce(twins). Those names will always be remembered in my family and saying the names over the years was a comfort to her, I feel.

"Lorelei, when your child passes away it's a permanent loss. You should not compare it to a child's stay in the NICU."

Absolutely, and I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I didn't understand that. They're not the same. However, they are both in the realm of outcomes most expectant parents don't expect. To clarify, at the time we named our son, his prospects were daunting--we were preparing for every possibility, including the possibility of perinatal death. I'm grateful to say he survived, at least so far, with profound and multiple disabilities.

Not to ignore the preceding comments, but I simply am speechless with regard to the subject. I did have something to say about the original topic of posting, however.

I think it's a bit odd to rename the baby a few days after birth or whatever, as when they're newborn...how do you know what name does or does not fit them? They're small, red, loud, and mostly sleep, eat, and fill a diaper. There's not much in the way of personality in the beginning, and it seems silly to me to be worried that the name doesn't "fit" at that point. Certainly, assuming you've chosen a realistic, decent name that's spelled correctly and has a history of usage, they will grow to fit the name. (I was highly amused by the explanatory engagement announcement, however.)

I would be horrified to find out, as an adult, that my parents had chosen to rename me as a toddler because they found a name for my younger sibling (a boy, of course! the boy obviously deserves a better name/initial!) that clashed with mine and so chose to change mine. There's no reason two people with the same initial can't coexist in a home, especially when there are other children with different initials (don't get me started on the Duggar children's names), but it seems weird and frankly insulting to me to give a toddler/preschooler a different name because the name of the BABY didn't match or what have you.

I think the only reasons I'd consider changing a name after the baby was born, named, and filed, would be if the child was named after someone living, and said person themselves told me that they didn't like their name and were sad to see it used on my child, or if someone pointed out that the name was something frankly derogatory, or the initials spelled something hurtful, or something, and we'd somehow failed to notice that prior to committing the name to official document (seems unlikely, but it might change my mind).

We didn't reveal names until the baby was born, but really for a far more practical reason: we didn't want any second guessers.

If you announce early in the pregnancy that you are naming the child Elvis Humperdink all sorts of folks have time to give you their thoughts (good or bad) on the name. Many more will hold their tongue after the baby is born.

Though, my favorite recent baby name/comment combo is this:

Baby: Brooklyn Annie LN

Grandma's first comment? "Sounds like a tugboat"

Regarding names before birth-we have a dog named Peanut, so we are telling everyone that our baby's name is going to be Peanut the Second. It is incredibly fun to see the shock and horror on their faces when we say we're going to name our kid after our dog.

There is one incident in which I would change the name I had chosen for my baby. Please hear me out before you judge this one... If my baby was Down Syndrome or obviously retarded, I would choose another name. Not bc they are not worthy of the original name, but bc I had a very special friend who was Downs that I would love to name my child after. I may very well use that name anyway one day. Any of my friends who heard I was naming my baby Sally, would immediately associate her with Sally.

Yet, the longer I think about it, the more I realize that it would be hard to change. I choose to not find out gender before birth so it is not like "I know it's a girl and her name is Bertha .... OOPS she's special so now her name is Sally". Even though i don't find out gender, I still have this sense of "my baby is either Albert or Bertha" and then to suddenly have a Sally may be harder than I used to envision.

Did any of that make sense to anyone but me?

I have never had namer's remorse with my 2 children. However, I can honestly say that I suffered from a real lack of confidence that my son's name was not well received by family and friends.
This board actually helped me in that respect. Someone posted that you should state your baby's name with confidence and offer no other explanation on why you choose the name. If pressed,offer simply that you justlove the name. So this is a much delayed thank you to that poster.
BTW, the name I was so unconfident about.... Elliott Andrew. Those dredful postpartum hormones!

Jessica, that made perfect sense to me. What a lovely tribute it would be to your friend Sally.

I only hope people who want to respond to your comment first ***re-read your comment a few times for perfect understanding,*** so that no one jumps to any silly conclusions about it, like they did with my original comment about the imprudence of public names for unborn babies & baby showers - assuming the very WORST about what I wrote. That was disappointing.

@Valerie - I second hyz's suggestion of Graham.

@The Letter K - Thank you for sharing such a delightful re-naming announcement! Loved it!!!

@Tirzah - Great story about big sister selecting the name Natalie. A family of 4 kids (all with commonly-used names in US) was expecting a baby brother and the kids kept insisting they name the baby "Nicholas," because the kids believed it to be a good "hockey player's name." The parents actually named him Nicholas - how could they not, really?

My former co-worker "unofficially" re-named one of their twins. They were named Tayl0r Mich3ll3 & Tyl3r Micha3l at birth. A few months later, when they mass-emailed some photos of the twins, they mentioned in the email that they were having trouble calling the twins by their correct names (!!), so from now on they would be calling the boy Michael. Oops!

Jessica,
Correct me if I am wrong but it sounds like you are saying that "Sally is not my first choice but if my child ends up being Downs then that's the name I'll go with if it's a girl". I wonder why you do not wish to use this name on a healthy child? Or would you use it as a middle name in that case? It seems, although I'm sure I'm mistaken, that the name is not a worthy name for just anyone in your opinion but would only be special if it were used on a Downs child. I just wonder why you would not want to honor this "Sally" anyway?

OT-LL(aka)BDL, my sign on for captcha was Erwin Egleston. Kinda fits the theme or you could change it to Erin maybe!