In 2007, a New York Times reporter called me for my thoughts on a baby name phenomenon. For the first time in a generation, the most popular name for Hispanic boys born in New York City was a Spanish one: Angel. Since the mid-1980s, names like Justin and Kevin had been topping that list. What did the shift away from Anglo names mean? A surge of ethnic pride? A demographic shift from Dominican to Mexican parents, who might maintain different links to their heritage?
I ran some quick statistics to get a clearer picture of the naming change. The numbers pointed me toward another factor at play: style. Angel was simply a trendy choice, and didn't represent any overall shift toward Spanish names. You can read more on the stats in the original Times article, but here's a handy quote from me:
“What changed was the distribution,” she said. “Angel has been a hot rising name across the country for more than a decade. It rose to the top among Latino New Yorkers by taking a bigger slice of the Spanish-naming pie, not by growing that pie. The rise in Angel is more than offset by the decline in José and Luis. And it’s still not as popular as Justin was in 2000.”
With that in mind, I was fascinated to see a new article in Time Magazine today that makes a claim precisely opposite to the NYT article: that Hispanics have been abandoning Spanish names.
The reasoning the Time writer puts forward makes sense. As a growing percentage of Hispanic Americans are 2nd generation and beyond, a growing percentage of them will choose assimilated names. That's a natural projection. But the writer further claims that Hispanic names are already disappearing, and that "the Social Security Administration has the cold numbers to illustrate the point."
The "cold numbers" in the article gave me pause. There's no attempt to look at the actual rate of Spanish name usage in the population. Rather, the writer simply offers examples of individual Spanish names that have dropped in popularity. For example, the article notes that the names Juan and Guillermo both slipped downward from 1998 to 2008. But their Engish counterparts, John and William, have also become significantly less common over that time. Are we to conclude, then, that Anglo names are disappearing?
The core issue here is a familiar one from the Angel story above: style. Fashion makes individual names go up and down, and fashion change is accelerating. But has the past decade really witnessed a shift away from Spanish names as the Time article claims? (The article's online title: "Hispanic and Latin Baby Names Becoming Less Popular")
To find out, I tallied the distinctly Spanish names that ranked among the national top 200 for boys in 1998 vs. 2008. (Spanish girls' names aren't easily measurable, because so many of them are used cross-ethnically.) In 1998 22 Spanish names made the top 200, representing 4.22% of all boys born. In 2008 there were again 22 Spanish names, this time representing 4.38% of boys born, a 4% increase.
The Time article's conclusion, therefore, seems premature at best. "Ethnic" names aren't disappearing, just changing. In fact, if you look deeper into the name stats you'll find that many of the nation's fastest rising names each year are specific to Hispanic Americans. They're names of Hispanic reality tv stars, telenovela heroines, and singing stars. Baby naming isn't just about Juan and Maria -- or John and Mary -- any more.
Hispanic names, rising or falling? Time vs. The Times
10/06/2009, 12:37PM
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Fascinating, Laura- so what are these names of telenovela heroines, etc.? I'd love to know.
This is somewhat related, but one of my favorite names is Pilar. DH and I thought about it for DD1, but eventually decided it wasn't right for a non-Latino girl (at least for us). I wish it was more popular in the Hispanic community as I think it's a beautiful name. All of my Hispanic friends have chosen American names for their children, but they are all 2nd generation Hispanic-Americans at the very least.
My friend's fiance is named Angel and I quite like the name on him, but do think it's a name not everyone can pull off.
Is the new article in Time Magazine written by a 'respectable' journalist or someone with street credit in the naming business? It's a shame you can't comment on it directly ;-)
The Hispanic children in my daughter's second grade class are named:
Boys:
Leonardo
Alberto
Brayan (pronounced Brian)
Wilián (pronounced William, at least by the other kids; I don't know if that's what his parents intended, but I suspect it is)
Gedler (pronounced with a hard "G"--definitely non-standard and I suspect bungling by the teachers and kids that the child doesn't bother to correct)
Girls:
Maryeli
María José
Emily
Kimberly
Jacqueline
In her Sunday school class:
Juan
Marcos
Xitlali (girl, pronounced Sitlolly)
These kids seem split between very traditional names (Juan, María José), "American" names (Emily, Brayan), and more fashionable less-traditional Latino names (Maryeli, Gedler).
Making a note: "Maryeli" and especially, "Xitlali"--- Love those! What does Xitlali mean, Elizabeth T.?
In my daughter's 1st grade class in GA, Hispanic kids named: David (pronounced Dah-VEED), Angelo, Danilo, Alyssa. Last year she had a Kimberly, Benito, and Aiden.
I have a young Hispanic couple down the street from me that have Benito, Marina, Adan (ah-DAHN, not Aiden), Xavien, Pilar, Luz, and Noemi. They're pregnant again, and last time I talked to her, they were considering Julia (hoo-lee-a), Araceli, Hector, and Charlie. I thought it was odd they have picked all of these traditionally Hispanic names, and then they're talking about Charlie.
Eo, a very brief search tells me that Xitlali (and its cousins Citlali, Xitlally, etc.) is of Aztec origin and means "star." I have no idea if that's true. I do know that many Mexican girls' names start with "x," Xiomara being the most common. (I actually have a Cuban colleague named Xiomara, so perhaps it's not just a Mexican phenomenon.)
Oh, traditionally Xitlali would be pronounced "Seetlolly," but the little girl in my daughter's class pronounced the first syllable "sit" for the teacher, probably because she's used to the panic on non-Hispanics' faces when they see her name written out! Just getting them to deal with the 'x' is victory enough!
I've been lurking on this blog for over a year now and I always enjoy all the great commentary. Now I'm looking for some help.
I am expecting my second son and my husband is finally willing to talk about names. Our first son is Charles Arthur. We like names that are traditional and familiar in the English speaking world, but definitely want to avoid the most popular names for the US. I'd like to stay out of the top 20 at least. For various reasons, we don't want the first name to start with A or O.
I'd also like either the first or middle name to be a saint's name. A couple names we like for either 1st or middle names are Philip and Edward.
Any suggestions?
Eo and Elizabeth T.- Xitlali is definitely not Spanish and most likely Aztec. Unsure about the meaning... so "star" sounds good!
Valerie- Laura refered to Marely, Camila, Hugo and Lola a while back. Here's the link:
http://www.babynamewizard.com/archives/2009/4/the-name-world-speaks-the-...
My husband and his 5 brothers (half born in Mexico and the other half in the US) have all married caucasian women:
Here's my in-laws' grandbaby list so far (we are expecting one grandbaby and the first great-grand in the next year):
1Vanessa Yasmin
1Ana Graciela
2Nicholas
2Adam Jay
1Alejandro Julian
3Jose Onofre, Jr.
1Yolanda Isabel
2Benjamin
4Adriana
3Victoria
1Laurita Cristiana
4Alexandra
3Gabriela
5Diego Jesus
4Samuel Aaron
5Eliana Sion
(Numbered by family and arranged from oldest- 23 to youngest 1.)
Laura, Can you give us the rundown of those 22 names in 1998 vs 2008? I am curious how style is changing.
Xochitl is another Aztec-based X girl's name I see on nametags and such here in LA. (Usually pronounced So-cheel, more or less). Apparently it means "flower."
My mother-in-law is hispanic (1st generation, from Argentina). She and her 3 sisters all married caucasian men. The 2nd generation names are (grouped by family) and ranging in age from 35 to 13:
Aaron, Andrew, Rose
Daniel, Anna
Mary, Anthony, Nicholas, Stephen, Susanna
Alexandra, Maria
I have run into the "traditional" Spanish names (Jose, Guadalupe), names popular in the non-hispanic community (Alex, Emily, Jessica), creative names (Geneally, Mayerlis), and the old-fashioned ultra-English names
(Melvin, Byron) among my Hispanic friends and acquaintances. A few trends I have noticed - Yesenia and Christian seem to be big in the teens right now.
(copied from last thread - if I only I could learn to check if the new blog is out before posting at the end!!!)
@hyz & Anna:
Thanks, both of you, for the advice. Both points of view are very sensible, and it's helpful to get them from objective and unbiased sources! I do realize that the Irish name is a big criterion. But I was also under the belief that it was important to my DH too - not "crucial", but still very meaningful. He said today that he was fine with the Irish limitation, but that earlier in our naming process he'd felt very restricted by it. I'm thinking maybe the problem for him isn't with the Irish name per se, but with feeling limited, like he *has* to pick from this list, when maybe, hypothetically, he might like something else. If that makes sense.
And in fact, he has said he quite likes many of the Irish names under consideration. Some he is even rather passionate about. So, I'll start to agree to that name in my head, picture using it for our wee girl, get really accustomed to it, and then....poof: today it's Elizabeth. So...I don't know. At this point I'm thinking it's wisest to just leave the subject entirely until we're holding a baby in one hand and the registration forms in the other.
You guys are all so good, letting me vent about my drama! I appreciate it immensely :)
EEgirl-Philip Edward sounds great as a sib for Charles Arthur. I also thought of a few others:
Henry Edward (but prob getting too popular)
Spencer Christian (just love this is all)
Frederick James
Paul Edward
Graham Marshall (again just like this)
AmyElizabeth-Didn't John Davidson or somebody way back in the 80's or so name his daughter Pilar? I actually think he had 3 daughters or triplets or something-I will look it up and report back.
OT-for anyone who wants some naming help or just for fun too, I took out the book "The One-in-a-million Baby Name Book" from the library just to get a look at it. (and compare it to Laura's). It breaks down the names into groups too. So if anyone is interested I'd be happy to give suggestions based on it.
Hey all! Between starting back to work and working on not one but TWO plays, I've been gone awhile. I feel behind and I've missed you all! :).
@PPP - I'm so sad to hear that you guys are still struggling. I don't know why but I thought you had it all but narrowed down! Silly husbands, why is it they're always carrying moneky wrenches around? :). When are you due again?
EEgirl
I also thought of Henry or George, as you seem to like trad 'royal' English names. Either would go well with Philip or Edward. Or you could think about Adam, Rowan, Michael or Alexander.
As a sibling for Charles Arthur (lovely name, by the way), Philip and Edward are perfect. I'll also second the suggestion of George, and I agree that Henry fits very well but may be too popular for you. How about:
Richard
William
Robert
Thomas
Stuart
James
Joseph
Edmund (a personal favorite!)
John
Francis
Frederick (another favorite of mine)
Clifford
Louis/Lewis
Theodore
Hasn't the Latino population grown by more than 4% since 1998, though? Say there has been a 20% increase (just guessing here) in the Latino population, but only a 4% increase in Spanish boy's names. Wouldn't that support Time's thesis that, as a percentage of the population, fewer Latinos are using Spanish names?
It's cool to know Xitlali and Xochitl are being used, and hear the pronunciations. Are there other X names getting play?
Bethany - Sion is interesting, do you know where it's from?
So, I have been assuming that the appeal in traditional or even royal English boys' names is in the tradition, but now I'm getting curious, do people hear these names as 'fresh' as well? Despite liking many of them (I can't get into girls traditionals so much) they're still so stodgy to me, especially paired 2 together.
Lysis - yes, it would support their conclusion but not their argument.
Time says (simplistically rephrased): The use of some Hispanish names (Juan, Guillermo...) is decreasing, ergo the Hispanish population now favours American names.
Laura says (simplistically rephrased): The use of the Hispanish names Juan and Guillermo is decreasing, while the use of Angel and other Hispanish names is increasing comparatively. Ergo, the Hispanish population now favours *other* Hispanish names.
@Keren:
YEs, funny - I thought we'd narrowed it down too! To the point of deciding on 3 names each that we would bring into the delivery room to make the final choice. It does seem kind of random.
We've officially got 5 weeks (due on Remembrance Day), but there's a long history of early babies on my side so I'm nervous about leaving it too long...
As for advice, my friends, sister, mother, et al. have all suggested I just wait until she's born and play on the "miracle of childbirth" afterglow to get what I want. Not my style, but increasingly tempting at this point :)
As to this week's post:
I think what it really illustrates is the malleability of statistics more than anything. A similar example: if one wanted to ascertain the popularity of traditional Irish names in the Republic of Ireland by say, analyzing birth announcements in the Irish TImes newspaper, they would inevitably conclude a huge drop-off, and a shift to more classic names on par with current trends in Britain (Jane, Annie, Grace, Charles, etc). However, the sample is not representative in social, economic, or geographical terms, so frankly it's pretty meaningless. But boy, can you write an "intriguing" article based on that!
Laura: as a researcher I can only empathize with how frustrated you must be when things like this crop up and garner attention!
Thanks, Elizabeth T. and Bethany. I did think it had a very Aztec-ian ring. How super that children even now are receiving these regal-sounding old names...
Wickers Amsterdam-- "Xochitl" is another beauty!
Name-spotting: "Lisa" on shopping channel QVC mentioned a new nephew-- "Coulter Levi", or maybe it's "Colter Levi"? I believe her family is Southern...
All - I'm currently 8 months pregnant with my son and focused like a laser on finding a Spanish name (my husband is Spanish). My husband has been intensely lobbying for Jobim (after Antonio Carlos Jobim, the bossa nova artist). I'm partial to Ramiro.
My concern about Jobim is that while it's original and neat and interesting, the spelling will confuse most people at first blush (it looks like "Joe-bim" but is actually pronounced "Zho-beam").
We want something fairly unusual and two or three syllables.
Would love your thoughts on Jobim vs Ramiro and any other suggestions.
Thanks!!
New baby alert: Willem Anth0ny (big sister is Ella). Parents are Canadians living in England although the mom is originally from the Netherlands.
I love Willem, and while Ella is nice too, it feels played out to me since I know so many. I'm struck by the similar sounds in the two names, though.
I was just commenting to my husband last night that I only watch baseball with him for the names. There are so many terrific latino names in baseball -- Placido Polanco being my favorite. So lyrical! Too bad we have a completely whitebread last name and could never pull off a fabulous name like Placido or Magglio... :(
Also, I don't remember who suggested Spencer Christian, but I just wanted to point out that, while a nice combonation, it immediately started me singing the Night Ranger song from the 80s "Sister Christian." Maybe someone who doesn't remember the 80s quite so well wouldn't be bothered by that...
KateRoc-LOL! I totally remember the 80's which was a wonderful time for me. I believe I was the one who mentioned Spencer Christian. I guess that's why it flows so well. Thanks for the reminder.
CT in NYC-While I don't have any alternate options for you, I like Jobim Ramiro as a combo. I would originally pronounce it Joe-bim but with a correction would probably remember it the next time :)
Anna-I love your use of "ergo" its one of my favorite words.
bianca- Eliana Sion is my daughter. Sion is the spanish form of Zion and also the name of my in-law's church (which is where my husband and I met). Before we named her, I had someone here at BNW tell me that Scion means son and is pronounced the same way as Sion. However, we pronounce Sion "see-OHN" and it was meaningful enough to us that we used it anyway.
As far as X names go, I've seen Xander and Ximena in the hispanic community and about 10 years ago I met a girl named Xatziri, which I know nothing about but assume it's Aztec as well.
Zoerhenne - Hmmm.. How about Ramiro Jobim?
CT in NYC, both names are interesting and neat, but the pronunciation problems with both would probably ward me off, personally. Not to sound like a broken record, but I'd probably look for Spanish names that don't contain any pronunciation surprises (like Jobim) or any sounds that the average English speaker will mangle (like the Spanish R in Ramiro). If I loved the beauty of Ramiro in Spanish, I think I'd have a hard time hearing it pronounced so flatly in English all the time. I think it would be like fingernails on a chalkboard to me, so I'd be looking for names more like Benicio or Pascual (or Juan, Clemente, Antonio, Diego, Julio, Mateo, Vicente, etc.--whatever strikes your fancy) that are easy to read and say more or less correctly. If all that doesn't bother you as much as it would me, I think I prefer Ramiro over Jobim, but both are pretty cool.
I like Ramiro over Jobim. That's just my opinion. I think, even pronounced flatly, that there are far fewer pronunciation issues. Plus, I prefer the sound.
I agree that there are no easy answers to the Hispanic naming statistics ponderance, at least without a correspondingly hard look at a whole slew of other data.
For example, at a glance, I counted 41 names on the 2008 Arizona (where I live) list for boys (which has 101 names) which I would consider "likely" (another great statistical phrase!) to encounter on a young Hispanic boy. Some of these names are clearly of Spanish-language origin (Angel); some names look like typical English names, but share spelling with Spanish ones (Oscar) and are, in this neck of the woods, primarily used by Hispanic-Americans; and some are cross-cultural names that are the English version of popular Spanish names and are likely to be bestowed on Anglo babies as much as Hispanic babies, particularly in 2nd-and-beyond generation families (Anthony). Far more complicated than simply counting names and comparing statistics.
CT in NYC, Isn't Jobim a Brazilian (or Portuguese) name? If your husband is willing to consider it, that means maybe he'd be willing to consider Portuguese or Catalan names. Jordi has fewer pronunciation issues than Jobim, but is used a lot in Spain.
I feel for you, PPP! I think it's important not to get too bogged down. When the baby comes along, your whole world will probably transform, so I wouldn't worry about it too much!
Just an update on my friend whose fifth baby came along a few weeks ago (brother for Ben/Harry/3melia/Maya). Well, he still doesn't have a name! Her husband travels a lot for work and she says he's only been home for two days since the birth, but now she only has three weeks left to register the name (she's in the UK). So, it's going to be interesting to hear what they finally settle on!
Valerie-That's funny! How have they been refferring to the baby in the interim? THAT'S always an intersting concept for me.
CT in NYC- I prefer the flow of Ramiro Jobim to the other way around. Another name that Jobim reminds me of is Joaquim (as in Phoenix). Not sure if this is up your alley but the different pronunciation in that one might be enough to make the flow of Joaquim Ramiro work better. Also, more people outside your family may pronounce it better since they may have seen it before.
Great post! It's funny how people don't think about the fact that naming trends change in other languages just like they do in English. I've noticed that language textbooks use typical names from our generation or one older, so boys are almost always Jose in Spanish or Jean and Pierre in French. Maybe English textbooks are populated with Steven and Bob!
My children are in school in French (Canada) and the popular names are pretty close to what you'd see in English: Chloe, Bianca, Alicia, Rosalie, Lucas, Olivier, Henri, Elliot, Liam, Megane, Aryane, Elise (some of those need accents but I don't know how to do them!) The only one that puzzles me a bit is Valerie, it sounds dated to me in English but I guess it's fresh in French.
Xochitl and Xitlali/Citlali are Nahuatl/Aztec, so you'll see them in Mexico but not through the rest of Latin America. One Aztec name I particularly enjoy and wish I could use is Cuauhtemoc.
Xiomara, though, is not Aztec. I'm trying to find details on the name--it seems to be Spanish in origin. Behindthename says it's "possibly" based off Guiomar, which is Visigothic. As a Germanic dithematic, Behindthename it has a meaning of "famous in battle", and it has the element "-meri", meaning famous, but I can't figure out what the initial element is. Interestingly, another name meaning "famous in battle" from "hlud" (famous) and "hild" (battle) is Clotilde. Could Guiomar be Hild-meri?
Incidentally, Ramiro is Visigothic as well, with the elements "rag-" (advice) and "-meri" (Famous).
Spanish X-names have been migrating over the centuries to J-names: Xavier->Javier, Ximena->Jimena.
Xiomara also appears to be popular only in the Caribbean, Central America, and Northern South America (Colombia, Venezuela). I don't think I've met a Mexican, Argentinan, or Spanish Xiomara. The lack of a Spanish Xiomara is particularly interesting; perhaps the name isn't Spanish at all but American (New World, I mean).
There's a lot of mystery overall regarding the name. I'd like to learn more if anyone knows anything.
Jose has been the #1 boy name in my state since 1996.
1996 - 2,822 Joses born
2008 - 2,336 Joses born
Angel and Juan also happen to be in the top 10 for 2008.
Fascinating post, Laura. I agree that the "cold numbers" really don't prove a thing. My brother's wife is from Mexico. They're due at the end of this month, and like many baby-namers today they are trying to find something fresh. They are not considering Juan or Gillermo -- the two names cited by the Times reporter -- but that doesn't mean they aren't looking at Hispanic names.
Just want to thank all the people who responded to my post in the last thread (re: names for our Baby Pr@nglee, due in two weeks). Your ideas were really helpful and opened up a bunch of new name ideas for us. I'll probably ask you again for advice once we narrow down some of our new ideas. Thanks again!
Baby name spotted locally- K!nsley (girl). Doesn't that just fit the trends!
valerie,
yes, that's quite on trend. i have to say, it's names like this that would concern me regarding popularity/datestamping much more than names like henry or oliver or charlotte (and even more than some names in the top ten). to me the kelsey/kendall/kennedy/kinsley/mackenzie/mckenna/makayla/kayla/kaylee crowd would make me uneasy. it feels like the kristies/krystals/kristas of the 70s/80s to me. i think the popular classics will weather the storm (or at least have a better chance of it). not that i really dislike any of these names: they're sweet and bright and cheerful. i just tend to get them all mixed up; they sort of run together in my brain (answering your question a. rose, regarding which names i confuse).
Such an interesting discussion that parallels a situation in my own life. My BIL and SIL are expecting a baby boy soon. My BIL is from Central America while my SIL grew up here in the US, and they spend most of the year in Central America. My BIL really wants to avoid names like Jorge, which he sees as over-used, but his favorite name -- which sounds fresh and interesting to him -- is actually a top 100 name in my state and is one of those extremely trendy names that I think is going to be so date-stamped in 10 years (think a male version of one of the names from emilyrae's list above). I am sooo not a fan of their current top prospect, but I've been biting my tongue since it is entirely their choice. The NE in me just wants to scream that in an effort to find something fresh in his culture, he's fallen into the opposite trap here (especially because their little boy will probably go to school here in the US!!) Thanks for letting me vent - I think it's something only a NE can relate to . . .
Here are some interesting names from my local baby birth listings:
Beyla
Aeris
Cellan (girl - wonder if this is pronounced Kellen or Sellen?)
@byss Cob@in(which really makes me think of Kurt Cobain and a drug-induced abyss . . . )
several Ashlynns and Ashtynns (various spellings, seems to be a new trend)
Huckleberry (!!)
Gauge (remembering back to a recent post)
Loy@lty Just!ce (how's that for a virtue name?!)
Also Iris, Elise, Eliza, and Elsa (all lovely names, I think, but I was struck by the similar sounds)
drds,
yikes about the naming with your bil/sil. that's unfortunate. : /
on the other hand: huckleberry! i love it. i'm not sure that i'd ever have the nerve to use it, but i love it. :]
Wow, @byss? I'd have thought that its meaning would place it firmly in the sounds-nice-but-not-a-name category, like Dyslexia(g) and Maiden(b).
I'm still very intrigued with where Aeris comes from. Lots of neat possibilities.
EEgirl:
I think Philip Edward sounds great.
Also what do you think of Vincent Edward or Vincent Robert. I also like Walter Edward.
A few other name suggestions: Roland, Lawrence, Albert, Russell.
How about Joaquin? That has an exotic sound like Joabin, but more people can pronounce it because of the actor Joaquin Phoenix.
emilyrae - my thoughts on Huckleberry, too. I certainly don't have the guts to use it, but was delighted to see one. I do have a hard time picturing a grown man named Huckleberry or Huck, though.
Linnaeus - also intrigued by Aeris and its origins. The similarity in pronunciation to "heiress" (assuming they are pronounced similarly) is one thing that would give me pause.
And @byss (especially with that middle name) really threw me for a loop!
drds,
oh, hmm...i guess huckleberry isn't quite adult-esque. i have no trouble with huck on a grown man though.
yes, i noticed the similarity between heiress and aeris too...i wouldn't be a huge fan of that.
and abyss....yeah...that feels...a bit negative to me. particularly, as you say, with the middle name.
Mbali--
I really like your name choices! Have you considered Le$edi as another middle name option for a girl? Just thought I'd suggest it because it's one of my very favorite names but I don't think I'll ever get to give it to an actual child!
Congratulations and happy naming.
Here's what I know about Aeris:
Aeris (or Aerith) is the name of a character in Final Fantasy VII. However, like Peyton or Madison, taking the name from this source might be less out of love of the character and more out of love of the name. (Is this the magical fangirl/not fangirl name criterion?)
Aeris is also the name of a scuba gear company. The name is based on its compressed air products (Aero- meaning air).
Aeris is also similar to Eris, the Greek goddess of mischief and chaos. Eris has gotten more play recently as the name of a minor planet that is further out and larger than Pluto.
Other characters have used similar names, such as Aeryn Sun from the sci-fi television show Farscape.
With the connections to videogames, minor planets, air, and shades of science fiction, the name may be "geekier" than some others in its origins, but overall, I can see it working as a name just as well as most others (such as the aforementioned Madison and Peyton). It's a pretty twist on Erin or Erica, as well.
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