The Baby Name Wizard

Laura, do you mind sharing your child(ren)'s names?

I was happy with our first's name, Adam, in part because it goes with all manner of names that I like - classic British and/or Biblical (Old and New Testament). Except that it ruled out a future Eve, a name I really like.

So very true! My husband and I both liked the nickname Gwen for a girl, but now, if we ever have another child, we won't be able to use it. We already have a son named Quinn. Imagine yelling Quinn and Gwen across a crowded playground! They almost rhyme and sound way too much alike for my taste.

I love the observation about subsequent names defining the style of previous names---so true!

I didn't realize this until our first-born was 3 months old. When I was introducing him to someone, the person mistook his name for "Daniel," when it's actually "Samuel." It was the first time I realized Daniel would no longer be an option, which made me sad. On the other hand, we really adored the name Samuel, so I don't think we would have changed our minds even if we realized this in advance.

I resonate also with the problem of choosing a second name after being so much in love with the first. I have never liked my second son's name nearly as much (though, of course, I adore him).

Very interesting essay. We know we won't be having/adopting any more children, but if we were, I'd feel at least some compunction to stay in the same naming "universe" as our first child.

Example: Since we almost HAD to (long story) go with the traditional "Benjamin", nickname "Banks", for our first son, subsequent children's names would likely be compatible classics, like maybe:

Phoebe
Samuel
Peter
Eliza

But had we gone with my slightly more quirky choices like "Barnaby", "Gower", "Eben", "Osborne", etc. for the first son, then I'd go with correspondingly more unusual sibling names:

Dilys
Harriet
Trennum
Peregrine

We've tussled with this question before-- would you somehow "coordinate" subsequent sibling names, or pay no attention to that? I'd love to hear examples of how the sibling names would be different had you initially chosen a different name for the first child...

Aagh, the above is not worded well, but hope the idea gets across...

I'm going through this now with baby #2 on the way. I chose DD Isabel's name because it was special to me as a name to remind me of my Pop-Pop Isadore. I've loved it since I was 13. There's no other name out there that resonates as much with me. Therefore, I'm trying to figure out which name will match Isabel's. Isabel is so popular that if I go with a name too "out there" they won't seem like siblings. But, I don't want popular for baby2 either. What a dilemma.

tallen,
if you're here, i left a comment at the tail end of the last post. oh, and hyz, if you haven't read the end of the last post, bravo on the botanical-ginny conundrum. :]

and this post definitely resonates. the first naturally sets the tones of the rest, making the first one seem very important. if i name my first daughter eleanor, it's a bit different than if i name her juniper, or if i name her zelda. (all names i like, by the way.) actually, maybe eleanor and zelda could work...? maybe not.

If I ever have a girl, I have a similar problem. My son is Grady. I'd love a girl named Greta, but they are too close. Ah well, there are plenty of lovely girls' names out there!

I think about this because I named my daughter after my two grandmothers. So does that mean any future children will also have to be named after relatives? If so, that's kind of limiting. On the other hand, I'd feel bad if one child gets a name because I wanted to honor some amazing women and the next gets a name that we just think "sounds nice." Oh well... it will be a few years before we're ready for #2 so I will worry about this later!

I don't mind mixing styles, necessarily. Had we chosen Ezra orginally, I don't believe we would have ended up with Ruth or Abigail.

For me, it has more to do with how close the names are sound-wise. I'm debating now whether I can choose another name that ends in -ie. DS is Oliver (nn Ollie) and DD is Mamie Katherine (often called Mamie). Would adding a Dulcie or a Rory be too much?

Then again, they will not travel as a set for the rest of their lives (unless I'm raising the next Osmonds)...

I like how Laura points out that names don't have to match, but can "can cast a new light on the names that came before them." This is often exactly how I think of sibsets-- I get to know the many sides of the parents with each new child named.

lilgill, that's a good point. So far, we have also chosen family names for both first and middles names. Our boy's name is another family name (although the middle name probably won't be). It is unlikely the girl's first name will be a family name (unless I can get DH to agree to Lorraine), but her middle name will.

Another "limit" I hadn't even thought of!

I find it interesting that people seem to reject name patterns (Lewis & Clark, Adam & Eve) purely on the basis of being a pattern. While I would avoid many patterns of that sort, I'm tempted to name my kids after, say, characters from some obscure television show I like. Nothing obvious, but names that are connected only by style don't appeal to me. I want to give my children names that belong together, rather than names that could only be stylistically grouped together.

spiffytech,

i don't think that's weird at all; i have similar impulses. that's why i often mention my fantasy sibsets. (godric, salazar, rowena, and helga, for example.) (or ellis, acton, and currer.) (or winnifred, mary, and sarah.)
the only thing is: you can't plan for how many of each gender you'll have. it's a bit of a risk.

OK, this outdoes the sorting hat anecdote used to define how precocious your daughter has become.

As always, Laura, you hit the nail on the head. We kept our first child a surprise, so we had both a boy's and girl's name picked out. I was still uncertain about the girl's name, and luckily we had a little boy. Both my husband and I love our son's name.
Now that we have a proverbial 'stake in the ground' with his name, I have had an easier time finalizing a girl's option, but the thought of another boy is daunting to me -nothing seems to live up to Th0mas Grey LN. We had thought about Charles or Edward, but we can't come up with middle names that evoke the same feeling that was created with the first. Hopefully we'll just have a girl next and I won't have to stress about this!

Maybe it's because I'm a childless only child but I've never understood the idea that childrens names are supposed to "match". They're only going to spend a few years being known as Eleanor's sister and will spend many more years out in the word as Braeleigh, family constellation unknown.

I do understand how the first choice alters the name "universe".

Sometimes I wonder about sibling names when it seems like one child got a "better" name than the other. I know two sets of twins: Shanti and Rebecca, and Simone and April. In both cases I feel the first name is more "cool" and interesting than the second, and wonder how they actually feel about it. Of course, I changed my name as an adult so that's one solution. (Ellen to Elizabeth.)

I definitely want to pick a name that leaves room for future siblings to "match". Partly because I think in my family the boys match, and the girls match, but we don't match each other!

Boys: N@thaniel and Benj@min.
Girls: Jessic@, Meag@n, and C0urtney.

It's a weird mix of Old Testament and cheerleaders...and I think that's what makes me want to have a "perfect" sibset for my kids...

ha! anne with an e, i absolutely agree about your siblings! old testament and cheerleaders! they're all very nice names though, and the genders do match very well.

My personal take on this:

Unless the names sound completely silly together (aka Lewis and Clark) I will go with whatever name I want with complete disregard for matching style.

The only thing I have to struggle to accommodate is our insane Italian last name.

I've always had a laugh over my husband's family. They're Patricia, Lisa, and Kevin. (Born on 75, 78, and 86). I thought it was kind of an odd sibset, especially because Lisa sounds so much 'older' to me, where Patti and Kevin kind of fit their respective decades. But I've also had people tell me that Katherine Elizabeth and Amelia Margaret, my sister and I, don't go together at all.

We have a James, and can't really agree on names for a (currently hypothetical) second child. We both love Jane, but I feel it's too close. Doesn't bother my husband at all! I love Gideon or Dexter for a boy, he thinks they're too weird.

I think this is probably a much bigger dilemma for name nerds than "normal" people. Not sure how many people worry about their childrens' names matching.

Kim in Philly: I think Laura's description of how Michaela changes when paired with either Eleanor or Braeleigh applies to your situation. Isabel could read European, cute, idk what else, depending on what's paired with it.

JillC: I know a girl (maybe kindergarten age?) named Lorayne. If that helps convince your husband.

So true, Laura, and so well put!

We've recently named our fourth girl, and would love to have more, but we find the parameters get narrower each time. As a result, it seems with every other name, we tend to buck against our own parameters a little to try to stretch out our little name universe.

Our first daughter, Philippa(Pippa), has a very standard English name. I wanted to name the next Imogen, but felt like that was painting us into a corner of uber-Britishness that excluded a lot of names I loved, so we went with Romilly. Still works with Pippa, but a bit more adventurous, we felt. Then Beatrix and Juniper joined us.

Now we've got a pretty wide pool of name sources and inspirations, but didn't they all just happen to have the same exact three syllable rhythm. Do we have to keep that up now??? So many rules to follow, but then, the name nerd in me loves the challenge of finding just the perfect name each time, so we'll persevere :)

We settled on a ds and dd's names many months before either of them were conceived and told our family about both names before we knew the sex of our first. (This I know, back fires on many, but it ended up working in our favor as my brother and sil had been toying with the idea of our girls name and immediately left it alone... I didn't know they were thinking about Eliana when I told them.) We plan on having more but I am no longer settled on anything... which makes me nervous. I usually am so decided and it bothers me that I am no longer that way. But I think that this is the underlying issue: "Where do I go from here?"

And on a similar note, I have friends who are having trouble with baby #4's name, and have asked for help. Right now they have N@than, Eliz@beth, and Eth@n... they are expecting a girl.

(Middle names are a non-issue as they are Chinese and have settled on the baby's mn.)

Here are the requirements they set out:
They want a Hebrew name with a "th" and prefer that it starts with N. IF there's nothing with N, then S is their next choice, but I think they may also be willing to consider B or R names. (Basically, they'd like their family initials to fall inside "BERNS.")

Talk about painting one's self into a corner! The only thing I can think of is Nazareth (which doesn't seem to fit their naming style at all) or Samantha (which isn't technically a Hebrew name).

Of course for B and R, there's always Ruth (I really like this option for them) or Bethany (which I don't feel exactly comfortable suggesting).

So NEs, my question is: What names would you suggest, and if you would, how would you encourage this family to broaden their scope?

I always felt like my family had a somewhat odd naming "constellation"-- 3 classics, 2 trendy names. Trendy Name #1 was actually picked for a very sweet, sentimental reason, but Trendy Name #2 was just picked because it sounded nice. She's also the only one of us who doesn't have a form of a parents' name as her middle name. I think she feels like our parents just didn't expend the same kind of effort on her name; I know it bothers her. Granted, she's known for being oversensitive, but you never know, your kid might be, too. I think it's definitely best to stick with a pattern once you've established it.

Laura, you struck a chord with "Many parents who fall head over heels for their first baby's name find it hard to duplicate that magic." My older sister is going through that dilemma, trying to find a name as full of meaning and as utterly perfect as her first child's name. I hope that when the times comes, inspiration bonks her over the head so soundly that she won't have namer's remorse.

It's interesting to hear everyone's takes on the the importance of how important the sibset names are, because I came from a background where matchiness was unimportant. We were each named individually, not collectively. I come from a huge family (9 kids). Though the boys in my family had similar names (all chosen as "hero" names with mostly family mns), the girls had names from all over the place. I'm the only child with a word name, and I liked it. I liked having a name so distinctive in style and origin from my siblings. It helped to know that, even though we each had different names, each name was chosen with a lot of love and thought. Having all of us have Biblical names or all family names would not have been practical. It was better that we were each given well-loved names that were important in different ways than that some of us end up with less-loved names just to fit a pattern. Also, the more distinctive the names were, the less likely we were to be called by each other's names (at least that was the theory. We got called each others' names anyway).

Here's how we were named and why:

Boys: Reuben (family name, went by mn James, from New Testament), Mark (New Testament), Samuel (Old Testament, went by Sam), Neal (LDS hero)

Girls: Kaylee (combo of Mom and Dad's middle names), Amber (hair color, symbolized eternity to Mom), Andrea (meaning "ladylike", name of someone important to the family), Lindsay (I'll have to ask), Heidi (ditto)

Just for the record, Kaylee *hates* how her meaningful name has become trendy. She read her entry in "The Baby Name Wizard" and hated it. Poor Kay ^_^

I can see, though, how sibsets would be more important in a medium-sized or smaller family. More practical, too. And I'm going through the dilemma: should I chuck a name I love just because it doesn't seem to "match" with what I already have and what I plan on having?

I'll confess my dilemma. I love Gwendolen Eve. I love the sound and the rhythm, I admire and respect Eve from the Bible (plus it's the name of an ancestor I'm trying to find more information on, and Eve could also be a word name), how Gwendolen's Welsh instead of Irish (I would like a child with a German name, too), it has lots of nickname options, and it'll give her the initials GEM. It's also the only name on our list that has survived since we've first started putting together baby names 4-and-a-half years ago. But just about all of my other names are either family names, hero names, or word names, and I have no way of knowing if Gwen would like being so distinctive from her siblings or resent it. I've tried to convince myself that Georgia Eve (Georgia being a family name) would be better, but then the significance of it surviving since the beginning would be lost, and I'm afraid that if I have a large family (I want one) that she would feel less like an individual. That, and having one child with a totally different name would give me full permission to use other very different names for future children.

Sorry about my self-indulgent confession.

I'm surprised that so many people took this as an endorsement of "matching" names! Sorry if I wasn't clear. For a lot of people, the challenge of naming later children is trying to AVOID "matching."

If you don't think a lot about how siblings go together, consider this: if you had a son Aidan, would that have no effect on your opinion of Hayden for the next boy? What about Charlie and Charla? Adam and Eve? Savannah and Georgia? If you cherish telling your first son tales about the hero he's named after, doesn't that make you want to choose another name with stories attached? And for the extreme example, if Jasper is your absolute favorite name, why not name ALL your sons Jasper?

Sibling influence works in many ways, but almost every parent is influenced.

amber,
for whatever it is worth, i LOVE gwendolen eve. i'm sorry if i'm forgetting, but what are your other children's names?

Funny about what you just said, Laura. I actually know a family in which all the boys are named C@rlos and all the girls C@rla. And there are 8 kids! Around the house, they use their middle names, but it is certainly funny to receive their Christmas card signed with the same name so many times. (The dad is named C@rlos as well).

Amber, I really like Gwendolyn Eve and really prefer it to Georgia. I think it is significant that you can't let go of the name and I think you should use it. It is special because you love it so much!

Bethany, I agree with you that Ruth sounds like a great choice for them. Ruth always makes me think of a slightly older woman, but I really like the name and I think Ruthie could be a super cute nn for a little girl.

I plan to use a very traditional name for my future son (William) but to use the nn Liam, which I think will open me up to a slightly more girl's name possibilities than just William would. That is actually an interesting thought. How much do nick names change sibling possibilities? I would think that, for instance, an Elizabeth would go well with a James. But an Elizabeth who goes by Libby could go great with Max or something like that.

so george foreman and jennifer rose's friend are the only two people not daunted by sibling matchiness. :] though even they chose different middle names. i cannot fathom doing that to my children though...great scott.

Anna, if your son calls himself "Deet-lu", Lou would be a very American sounding nn. Of course, it might not go over as well in other English speaking places, since it sounds like loo. :/ Maybe Louie, then? But I still think Lev is very good, and Dev is nice, too. If I heard Lev at random, I'd think it was Jewish, since I've heard it before as a Jewish surname. However, if I saw it on your son, especially in conjunction with a presumably Northern European surname and an accent to match, I wouldn't know exactly what to make of it. I don't think it comes across as very "normal" American like Dave or Joe or whatever, but it's familiar, and easy to say and remember, so I think it would work very well as an English nn.

laura, i am dying to know your kids' names!

Oh, and I love Gwendolyn Eve, AND Ruthie for a little girl. So cute! And as the namecandy post the other day pointed out, Baby Ruth is named for a real child (Grover Cleveland's daughter), and I think that adds to its youthful feel, even though it definitely feels serious and traditional AND vintage, too. Too bad Bethany's out--that would've been a good suggestion, too!

oh, yes, i did mean to say: i like ruth nn ruthie for a little girl, very much.

My kids are named Sarah and Peter. I joked that if we had three more kids we should name them Iris, Otto, and Lulu to conserve the vowel-laden theme. Of course I was the only one in my extended family who thought that was at all interesting or funny!

Bethany: I like your suggestion of Ruth. Bethany to me is a little too close to Elizabeth.

"They want a Hebrew name with a "th" and prefer that it starts with N. IF there's nothing with N, then S is their next choice, but I think they may also be willing to consider B or R names. (Basically, they'd like their family initials to fall inside "BERNS.")"

Other possibilities that don't fit all requirements
- B and TH: Bathsheba (hmm)
- TH: Martha, Tabitha, Judith, Lilith
- N and Biblical: Naomi
- S and Biblical: Susanna, Sarah (could make it Sarabeth!)

Elizabeth T. - I think that's a great set! :) How about throwing in a Lyly?

Jan, I don't think the problem is Bethany being close to Elizabeth (I mean, they chose Ethan and Nathan..) the problem is that Bethany is the poster's name, and she doesn't want to propose her own name

but, Bethany, you can tell them: 'You know, I asked this baby blog, and do you know what name they came up with... Bethany! Isn't that just so funny!" because I think Bethany would be a great fit. ;) Maybe Bethann?

I also like Ruth, or maybe Ruthann. Also, maybe Nathalia (I would probably pronounce this nat-AL-ee-ah, if it were me), Nathalie. But I know nothing about Hebrew names...

Bethany:

Seems like that might need to relax one or more rules! Some ideas:

Nathalie (not Hebrew, though)
Edith (not Hebrew, but another E)
Faith (OK, they don't want F, and it's not Hebrew, but a lovely virtue name!)
Asenath (Hebrew, but letter A--this one was used in early America by one of my ancestors, but I've never met one!)
Gwyneth (if they want to break all rules but the "th")

@Ellen: I had an apartment-mate in college (I recently graduated) named Asenath. I do think it's a lovely name, but unfortunately it's been forever ruined by her! Oh well. So it is out there, just rare.

One advantage to the name is that it looks the way it is pronounced.

@Bethany, I like the suggestions of Ruth or Bethany (although I understand your reluctance to advance your own name as a choice). I once knew someone named Ruthlea (pronounced /lee/) B3llflower. What a great name! Very lyrical.

@Amber, I definitely think you should use Gwendolen Eve. If you've harbored the name this long, I'd think you might regret not using it.

@Jillc and @Jodi Y, I absolutely *love* all your kids names!!! Fantastic!

As for me, I always wondered (hypothetically since we aren't having more) how we'd top (or even match) Astrid's name. The meaning is great, the name sounds terrific, it's beautiful and strong and feminine. I felt like we totally hit it out of the ballpark. :)

I have two girls, named Adeline and Lydia - now we're expecting a third girl and I'm stuck. :) I like that their names have three syllables, and that they end with different sounds. I also like that they have a "d" sound in the middle, so their nicknames are "Addy" and "Liddy". But I am open to any suggestions! Thanks for the help.

Bethany:

One of Jacob's sons was named Naphtali. Would a softening to Napthali work for them? I could see that name on a girl. Seth would work for a boy. Shealtiel means "I have asked of God" and is occasionally spelled Salathiel.

Hello! I'm new here. I'm name nerd like you all and am totally fascinated by this blog.

People have always told my sister and me that our names "match" very well. Our names are Lisa and Robin, and though our names were very common in the 1960's/70's, we are both children of the early 1990's so we rarely ran into other kids with our names. I think our parents were a bit stuck in their school days when they named us, so we sound like we could be 30-40 something year old women, when really are college age. That's not really a bad thing though. We've both definitely grown into our names as we've grown up. If we were boys we would have been Philip and Craig. Not so sure how those go along though.

To chime in on previous conversation, I love the names Sarabeth and Ruth. When I have children I think it'd be important to have their names sound good together, though I do agree this probably only occurs to name nerds. My cousin just named her twins Charlotte and Hudson, and I love both the names, though they sound a bit disjointed to me.

Audrey:

What about Damaris or Rosalind? They have a similar (to me) feel, although the D isn't in the middle in either name.

The only other three syllable name I can think of with a D in the middle and not ending in an A or N sound is Cassidy.

The interesting thing about the trendy names is that they don't really have this problem (of picking a name and trying to hit the right style notes for the rest of the sibs). Take for example my sister. She has one daughter, Madison. They're expecting a boy soon and have not given any hint as to what their name ideas might be. With Madison, the whole dynamic/sib set style can still swing a lot of ways.

Madison + Leo, Theo, Finn = cool, laid back
Madison + Matthew, William = bland, but familial
Madison + Owen, Milo, Oscar = hip(ster)
Madison + Jacob, Aiden = these parents obviously don't look at popularity charts and/or don't care.

I'm out of ideas for now but you get my point. I'm rooting for whatever doesn't sound like he'll be using his last name/initial through school, as Madison will definitely have to in our area.

As one person said above, the more kids you add the more you see about the parent(s)' personality. I guess I'm really excited to see if I'll learn anything new about my sister and bil :)

linnaeus,

seth! genius!

audrey,

i like your daughters' names. :]
the things that currently come to mind are:

edith, nn edie (or however you want to spell it)
judith, nn judy
elodie
joanna/josephine/judith, nn jodi
sarah, nn sadie

i'm not sure that all of these match your style. i think my favorites for you might be edith and judith--they strike me as old fashioned (and your children's names strike me as old fashioned), but with adorable nicknames. however, i know a lot of people just think of them as old woman names, so they may not suit you. oh, and most of them aren't three syllables, but what can i say? you drive a hard bargain!

Audrey Tolman:

By nickname:

Judy: Judith, Justina
Mindy: Melinda, Miranda
Maddy: Madison, Madeleine, Melody, Matilda
Cindy: Cynthia, Hyacinth
Sandy: Cassandra
Hedy, Heidi, or Hildy: Herlinda, Hildegard

Audrey, great names! what about:
Lavender
Elodie
Kennedy
Melodie
Evadne
Meredith
Gwendolyn
Madigan
Cassandra
Matilda
Cassidy

If you go with t instead of d in the middle:
Natalie
Tatyanna
Chasity
Anita
Renata
Calista
Juliette
Ayelet