(For real, this time!)
Perhaps you've heard, the economy's taken a bit of a stumble lately? As families cut back and surveys reveal a bleak mood, the natural question in these parts is how the downturn will play out in baby names.
The popular idea in the press and the blogosphere is that parents will retreat to the reliable comfort of classic names. A few reporters have tried to pry this prediction out of me. (One was particularly eager for me to forecast a comeback for Faith and Hope. I had to break it to him that it's too late, they're already back.) In fact, some news reports have claimed that the return to tradition has already begun. Take the Reuters article titled "Parents get serious about baby names in tough year," with its bold opening statment: "Most parents have abandoned unusual names for their children..."
The idea sounds plausible, because many choices do work this way in economic downturns. In the world of investing, it's called the "flight to quality." The idea is that in uncertain times, people make the safest possible bets and aim for lasting value. Consumers, similarly, drop luxury in favor of utility.
Yet there are also good reasons to expect name trends to behave differently from investments or consumer goods. The most basic is that baby names are free. In a time of belt-tightening, why not indulge in a cost-free extravagance? Anastasia won't set you back a penny more than Ann. In fact, lower-income parents are more likely to try unusual, eye-catching and newly-introduced names -- quite different from, say, food purchasing patterns.
A second reason is found in the motivations of modern baby namers. Many parents who seek the unusual are convinced that distinctive names will give their kids an advantage in life. Think of it like a creatively packaged product standing out on a store shelf. The tougher the competitive landscape, the more this perceived advantage should matter to parents.
Finally, there's the fact that the movement away from tradition has been accelerating for years. An immediate surge of traditional naming would be the fashion equivalent of a runaway freight train suddenly backing back up a mountain.
So where do the claims of reversal come from? If you read the Reuters article closely, you'll see they (and may others) were inspired by a press release from the online parenting community BabyCenter.com. In the release, the BabyCenter folks note the rise of certain specific traditional names among their users. But is there a consistent pattern?
In fact, if you look at the BabyCenter popularity lists from the last several years, 2008 looks like more of the same. The bellwether traditional classics like John, James and William continued their steady descent down the rankings. And if you tally up the top 20 for boys and girls, as a group the 2008 names were much less popular a century ago than the 2006 names. In other words, no "flight to quality" has been spotted so far (and don't believe everything you read in the paper).
So let's toss out our preconceptions and return to the question: what effect will the recession have on naming patterns? To form a hypothesis, we can look to historical precedent. Did baby naming change during the Great Depression? And if so, was there the retreat to strength and safety that so many observers expect today?
To be continued...
Comments
@Eo, I googled "romany names" and got some sites that might interest you.
@moonlady, I think Ari and Noam are definite winners. Love those names. I would have suggested Eytan and Ilan, but see you already have those in the family. Oh, and I like Ronen.
@MelissaM, I like Prairie Dawn's list ^^, esp Jill and Paige (although I hear Paige a fair amount, which may make it too popular for you). I've always liked Jill, though--easy to spell and pronounce, spunky, with the added bonus of being underused currently.
Melissa M- Haha, great story:) Could I offer Genevieve? I love this name and it has the same beginning as Jennifer while not being as common. What about
Gillian
Adelaide
Audrey or Aubrey
Amalia
Sadie
Sylvia
Sonia
Ainsley
Dahlia (we were talking about this the other day to go with nature names...)
Joyce
Claudia
Jumping around style-wise, but I'm bad at making uniform suggestions:).
Moonlady- There is a Ronen or Ronan in Harry Potter (he's a centaur) I don't know which way it's spelled, but that would make the name at least sound more familiar to kids. I like it btw, and I don't mind Doron, although I'm not sure I'm saying it right... I want to say it Doh-run, but moron is Moor-On. That make sense?
As someone in the 20's age-range I wish I had some good recession-naming insight! But I have no idea. I don't feel like it will change my friends thoughts that much though. If people are unemployed I could see them either giving a hopeful name in a way that looks towards a better future, or maybe a name that has lots of options, or maybe a distinctive name as some have said to try and have their child stand out.... I'm not sure there will be a uniform reaction!
Oh and you're welcome, Bianca:)
Moonlady - I was going to suggest Noam as well - though I completely intend on having a little Noam myself someday - so since it's been thrown in already, I'll say I agree. Amy3's suggestions of Ari and Avi are cute too, and I still like your original proposition of Ronen. Good luck!
As a twenty-something, my prediction of recession effect on names is that people will turn to family names. I love coming up with theories that can be neither proved nor disproved!
MelissaM - Very funny! Some "compromise names" that come to mind are Natalie, Leah, Julia, Julie, and Lydia. (Trying not to repeat previous suggestions, many of which I think are great!)
MelissaM
Sigh! Having to negotiate a name is so painful when your naming styles are far apart. I agree - What is with men and Ashley?
It's getting his input when he won't tell you why he hates the wall colour you spent days picking out.
If you haven't done it yet, I'd suggest getting the baby name wizard book. Hubby and I had a great time with it when we were helping my SIL with a name. We seem to have melded our styles (and we aren't sure we we want children!). Plus it's lots of fun to pull out at parties. Everyone loves to look up their names and the names of their children.
PLUS the authorial pov can help him see the name as something more than you just being weird.
I would suggest the timeless baby names list. They might sound less musty to a newbie.
Two names I remember:
- Sarah (not wildly unsual but a good solid girl's name. A fave of mine)
- and Veronica. I was surprised to find out that Veronica has been fairly steady in its popularity. I love Veronica, plus the nn Ronnie is a HUGE draw.
Also he might be more willing to go with Boomer names or stripped down versions of the more fanciful names. Names like Anne or Claire might feel more modern. I personally think these simple versions are highly underated right now.
But it's my style to take Anne over Anna.
Eo - What about Simza, Florica, Lala, or György for Gypsy names? I'd like to hear your favorites! It's similar to how First Nations names are hard to come by.
In the same vein, I stumbled across a site with Manx names awhile ago, and found them really interesting - Calyvorra, Dorrin, Malane, Moirrey, Finlo, Machonna...
MelissaM,
I went over the top 100 names in our state with my husband. His big issue was thinking that a lot of my name choices were too "old-fashioned" and showing him what other names were hits now (like Ava, Olivia, Sophia) SHOCKED him, but it also made him realize that my choices (Phoebe, Ruby, Tessa) are not that crazy and that our child will not be tormented because of them.
I've been waiting for this celebrity baby name announcement and I'm not disappointed!
From People.com:
"It's a third girl for celebrity chef Jamie Oliver, who became a father again on Friday.
Oliver's wife, Jools, gave birth to Petal Blossom Rainbow at 2:46 a.m., PEOPLE has confirmed. The baby, who weighed 6 lb., 10 oz., joins sisters Poppy Honey, 7, and Daisy Boo, 5, in the Oliver household."
I actually went to college with a Petal.
Petal Blossom Rainbow- oh my! It's as bad as Fifi Trixibelle and some of those other rock star choices. Well, actually, there's something about it that's cute on a baby, but imagine trying to be a cool teenager or 20 something with that!
MelissaM- LOVED your story! How interesting that so many of those 70's/80's names are so different to the UK.
For example, although we had Jennifer and Sarah in the 70's, they were also used in the 60's, along with Julie, Carol, Susan, Anne, Jane, Deborah, Helen, Caroline. Oh and lots of Traceys, Sharons and Karens. And the name Nicola was hugely popular. When I mentioned Nicola to my dh (American), following my reading of your story, he was horrified and declared it an Italian man's name.I guess it was our substitute for Nicole. We never had a deluge of Heathers either.
My sister (Sarah) was a 70's child and her friends were Amanda, Susan, Kirsten, Emily, Deanne, Liz and lots of Sarahs. Wish I remembered more.
As a child of the seventies (but in Catholic school in Massachusetts, so everything skewed Irish), these were the popular girls' names:
Megan
Kathleen/Kathy
Jennifer
Christy/Kristy/Chrissy or Christine/Kristine or Kristen/Kristin
Anne/Anne Marie
Lynn
Andrea
Emily
Elizabeth (Liz/Beth - no one ever used full names)
Nicole/Nikki
Tracy/Stacey
Gabrielle
Vicki
Deborah/Debbie
Karen
On another topic, I've noticed how deeply it bothers many of the posters here to think that a name might be popular. Would people who feel strongly about that be willing to share with me why? I have a very common name, and it never bothered me. In fact, I used to wish it were the even more common variant that has an even longer history, just because I liked the idea of being connected to all those who came before and had the name. So of course, I like many of the old-fashioned names that are popular now, and that has me thinking about popularity. I was teased a lot as a kid, but at least not for my name - I think I have a lot more fear about giving a "weird" name that will give kids ammunition for schoolyard taunting that a "boring" name that no one pays attention to. But are a lot of people bothered by having very common names? And do most people feel differently about names that have always been common (Anne or James) versus those that are currently popular but likely to fall out of favor quickly (Madison or Jayden)?
I'm pregnant and don't know if it's a boy or a girl yet. If it's a girl, it's Margaret for many reasons (significant on both sides of the family). But the male names are killing us. I asked once before about Max, which was my grandfather's name. Some people have said it's too popular now, and my husband is still having problems getting past Max Smart. We like James and Zachary okay, but the second seems a little put-on to me, like it's trying too hard to be hip, and my husband thinks James is a bit dull (and popular). We both liked Nathaniel but it doesn't fit with the middle and last names, same with Anthony and Alexander. (The middle name, for family reasons, is Andrew, and the last name also has an "an" sound, so the "an" names sound odd.)
We're at an impasse.
I totally agree that Petal Blossom Rainbow sounds better on a baby than a teenager. Likewise, I can't imagine that the middle name Boo will wear that well on older sister. At least it is only a middle name. Maybe the girls will just go by first names and hope no one ever finds out the whole thing. I think Poppy, Daisy, and Petal aren't super horrible.
I think that how much of an affect the recession has on naming will depend on how long it lasts. I guess my state has felt the effect a little later than other states and so I don't see it affecting the trends yet. That would be one way to examine an effect to compare states that were hit harder than other ones.
Thanks for the alert, Tirzah--that's a doozie. Petal alone is fine, but Blossom Rainbow knocks it right over the top and out of left field (imho).
pyewacket, I think most of the concern is with popular names that are really date-stamped, not ones that have been relatively popular forever. To me, a date-stamped name just doesn't seem as personal/individual/classic/interesting/whatever. There's also the general concern of being the 10th Sarah or whatever in your class, and losing your identity a bit because you're always having to go by "Sarah S." or worse, "Sarah S. with curly hair" because there is more than one Sarah S. (true story from my high school days, we also had multiple Sarah W.s, one of whom now goes by her middle name because she was so sick of being lost in a sea of Sarahs).
But anyway, I love Margaret--great choice there. For boys, I like your choice of James, and Alexander. If the -an in Alexander doesn't work, what about Alistair? Going with the classic theme, have you considered Thomas, Charles, William, Peter, Simon, Henry, John, Jonathan, Timothy...?
pyewacket,
i've noticed the same thing regarding how deeply people wish to avoid popular names. i can only assume that it is from the wish to give their child a name that stands apart from the crowd, as opposed to a "common" name. it's a natural impulse, but my feelings are different.
i have no opposition to popular names. i want to choose the names that i like, regardless of the decisions of others. i love the name julian for a boy, and even if that were to become the number one boys' name in the country, i think i would still name my son julian. i don't want to pick something i like less just because of the choices of others. perhaps it comes from being named emily, which has now been the number one girls' name for twelve years (though it was much less common when i was born). i think it's classic and timeless, and knowing other emilys never bothered me.
that being said, i think it's a very normal impulse to not want your child to be one of five ashleys in her grade (the case when i was in school).
oh, and also, though i do not shy away from popular names, i do shy away from names such as jayden that i can't see lasting very long. i tend to like names with a little bit of a history.
also, i love the name max; it's one of my favorites. if you could get over the popularity issue, i would not worry about the "max smart" association. it's not--in my opinion--one that most people would make.
There are 2 Maxes in my daughter's K class and it does get confusing. I saw Max's upcoming birthday on the class chart and said something to his Mom --oops, wrong Max!
Names are meant to identify a particular person from the rest. If there are two (or three or four) with the same name, it's confusing.
Personally, I think Max is popular, bordering on trendy, what with both Christina Aguilera and Jennifer Lopez having kids with that name. But of course the upside of having a popular name is that nearly everyone likes it. Even my pregnant sister is considering that name.
On the Max topic--I know one girl Max, about 6 months old. Does anyone else know any girl Maxes or is it otherwise a boy's name still? I seem to remember that Jessica Alba's character on Dark Angel was named Max, but I can't think of any others...
pyewacket:
My favourite boy' name is Christian. This may not fit with your lifestyle. Being Jewish myself, I can't use it. But I have always loved how it sounds.
What about Paul? It's not that popular (about 143?). But it's a solid classic boy's name. No nns, which can either be a good thing or a bad thing depending on your pov.
Edward - another classic
Oh yeah, Paul. Good thought. And what about Isaac? It has that "Zack" sound, but I think is much more interesting than Zachary these days (I know too many 15-30 year old Zacks, the bloom is off the rose for me).
pyewacket - I am one who is very concerned about the popularity of a name, and I have lists of names I love but will never use because they are *too* popular (generally, for me this means either I know several or the name is in the SS 200-300 range. Names in the 400-500 range give me pause.) From my perspective, I have a very unique name, and I have always loved having a name that few others share. Because I enjoyed that experience, I want my own children to have the same. I recognize I might be a little more extreme than others, but to me this is a very important factor. Sometimes this drives my husband nuts when we are trying to decide on boys' names and I nix perfectly good names just because of popularity, but I count myself lucky that he likes some pretty obscure names.
I always find it interesting when the topic of popular names comes up and we mention Jennifer S. or John W. as having a problem with being 1 of 10 in the class or whatever. It's interesting because this is how surnames came about. Since I study genealogy I have read about the use of patronymic surnames, descriptive surnames, and others. The descriptive ones are the ones that these discussions remind me of. For example, Jennifer down the street becomes Jennifer Street. John over the hill becomes John Overhill and so forth. I didn't want to give my children the most popular nor the most unusual name in the class either though. But the history of names just fascinates me.
pyewacket, I have a rather popular 70's/80's name. I didn't mind having other girls with my name in the school, but it irritated me to no end when people would refer to me by my first and last name - especially in casual conversations, I can't really explain it.
I also have a common middle name and last name and I kid you not, I have met 2 women with my EXACT name. (just a warning to those giving their DD's the middle name Rose) When I got married, I think part of the reason I hyphenated my name was to finally have a full name that belonged to me and me alone, lol.
I think there's a lot more variety in naming nowadays then when I was growing up. Back then, 75% of the girls were Jennifer, Jessica, Nicole or some variation of Christina. I don't think I'd avoid a 2007 top 10 name if there was one I loved. I think it's even more tragic when parents give their kids unattractive names in an effort to show their individuality.
Re: super common names, I was always one of many Sarahs and while I like the name, it definitely got old. I'll also point out that it's not just a problem in childhood. I had a job a few years ago as an assistant director of a specific program, and the director and I were both named Sarah R. My boss wanted me to use a nickname, but I was uncomfortable doing that professionally, so we just lived with the confusion. It was definitely not an ideal situation, either personally or professionally.
That being said, I think there are a very limited number of names with that level of popularity, so while I'd avoid top 5 names I wouldn't worry at all about top 100.
Re: pyewacket - have you considered Samuel? Also (just throwing this out there), I know a teenage boy named Shadrach (biblical) who goes by Shad. I like it.
Thanks for everyone who's tried to come up with 'acceptable' 70s-80s names...I think it's a case of, if he doesn't already know anyone with the name, he thinks our daughter will be ridiculed and a social outcast. Fortunately, he's agreed to a naming crash course this weekend, where we will review currently popular names, learn about date-stamped trend names, and explore current naming trends in America. Ha. Not to mention there's an adorable one-year-old girl at our church named Clara (and another named Eliza) that it seems I'm going to have to introduce him to.
And you know, it's the funniest thing. Of all the names I tried to tempt him with (and I tried a LOT) he's actually considering Genevieve. The 'Jenna' nickname has a lot to do with that. Sigh. Oh, well. I'll take Genevieve over Ashley any day.
I used to be much more concerned with popularity until I read here I think about the fact that the name pool has so dramatically widened--especially for girls--that the #1 name (Ava) in my state had 483 babies named that in 2007 vs the #1 name in 1982 was Jennifer had 1,210 babies named that. That's triple the number of Jennifers as Avas. And if we go back further, the #1 name in 1960 had 1468 girls named Mary. So now I don't worry too much and focus more on classic names that I feel will not be particularly associated with any one or two decades.
Another Celeb Baby! (With a Max sibling)
"Trista and Ryan Sutter welcomed their second child, daughter Blakesley Grace Sutter, this afternoon, Friday April 3rd, in their home state of Colorado. Baby girl was delivered by c-section at 1:23 p.m., weighing in at 6 lbs., 2 oz and is 19 inches long. “She’s healthy. Everything is really good,” Trista tells Life & Style. Blakesley joins big brother Maxwell ‘Max’ Alston, 20 months."
http://celebrity-babies.com/2009/04/03/ryan-and-trista-sutter-welcome-bl...
Blakesley is tongue twister!! I bet they will just call her Blake.
Petal Blossom Rainbow - who cares what her middle names are? She is going to grow up fitting right in with her sisters - Poppy and Daisy. She won't even probably realize it's an unusual name for a long time. It's not like they are going to call their child by all three names all the time.
pyewacket - today's parent want their child to stand out and a name is one avenue for that. You will probably find Laura's book very insightful - or just read a few of her old posts. She speaks about it often from all angles. :)
Baby sibs alert.
My cousins in the States have had a girl named Fable, who joins her 4 year old brother Griffin!
(They are die-hard Republicans, and their naming choices surprise me to no end because of this.)
New co-worker has these kids: Claire, Landon, Jack. I love how they go together!
Other co-workers of mine, who happen to be identical twin brothers, both have three kids each: Adonis (boy, I joked that if he doesn't look like his namesake he'll be teased), Genesis (boy), and Elysia. He used to be a Ancient Greek history professor, can you tell? The other twin has kids named Oceane (accent over the first 'e'), Felix, and Dante (accent over the 'e'). I loooove their naming choices--their very metro guys and the way they talk about it, I don't think their wives had any say about the names!
A Chinese friend names her baby Bi Ming, whom we call Bibi. I think its the cutest thing.
Phew, lots of babies! Tell me what you think about the names!!
Late in the school year, yes, but I just dragged out the parents' association executive board list to update my address book and can't believe I overlooked the treasure trove of kids' names on it. Kids range in age from K-5. I've grouped sibsets (although this may not represent all the kids in the family, just the kids enrolled in this school).
Justin
Lucas, Sasha
Jak3y, Caleb, Dahlia
Cole
Julian
David
Ben, Laura
Nicholas, Alexander
Elijah
Jesse (g)
Sam, Georgia
Tommy, Olivia, Melissa
Juliette, Natasha
Jake
Eytan
Selena, Alexia
Justin, Adriana
Chris, Timoth3os
Pablo
Emily (x3)
Seth
Dalilah
Joelle
Lucy
Charlotte
Nicolas
Jael
Jack
Ethan
Erin
Jackson
Kendall
Jordan
Nick
Jenna, Jonah
Josh
Abhish3k
Astrid (mine)
Lauryn
Nikia
Kaden
Ross
Shalma, David
Rory, Jack
Florence, Imogen
Chase
Danil
Zoe
Ian, Tess
Sebastian
Tiffany
Isabelle
Joey
Christopher
I grew up with a very popular "classic" name and I changed it as soon as I could. I started trying out other names in grade school and made people call me all kinds of things before I found one I liked. When I was 22 I changed it legally. I _hated_ having to use my last initial everywhere I went, or having friends and classmates with my name. At my current job there are two other women with my old name, if I had kept it, it would be three women in a small office with the same name. I love that people are being more creative with their name choices these days and I don't think the recession will change it. I think we finally have the cultural freedom to explore many wide and varied name choices, instead of just naming the kid after someone else. Popularity of a name is a huge factor for me in naming my own children, if I hear a name too many times it becomes less appealing to me as a possibility for my own child, even if I like the sound of it.
@pyewacket, I grew up with a *very* popular name, although I was born a few years before my name really peaked in the US. I always thought it would be great to just go by your name instead of Amy K., as I always did in school. It has also presented some professional challenges, as Sarah mentioned ^^. Not that either of these are huge in the grand scheme of things, but they are annoying.
Although my husband and I didn't consciously set out to find an uncommon name for our daughter, I think we both gravitated to that (our daughter is Astrid). (My husband has what was a top-10 boys' name when he was born.) That said, Astrid (who is now 7) actually wishes it were more popular. She's always sad when she can't find her name in film credits.
I do think there is a meaningful distinction, though, between popular, classic and popular, date-stamped. As an example, I could envision naming a baby Elizabeth or James but not Madison or Brayden.
Baby name alert:
New baby born to a co-worker in Southern California, Zamor4 Carm3la. Mom is Filipino, dad is US Hispanic.
I don't so much have issue with names that are "popular" as I do with names that are "trendy." A previous poster said something about trying to avoid a name that is too "date stamped," and I'm inclined to agree. Names like James, John, Samuel, Elizabeth, Katherine--are fine to my ear because they're common, but not instantly linked to a decade like Tiffany and Amber. What I really don't care for are those names that rush to the top of the charts (Nevaeh or Ava, anyone?) only to come crashing down after only a few years at the top.
On a different topic, am I the only person who really gets annoyed at the trend of using boy names for little girls? This drives me crazy, because once a name "goes girl," it's often lost as an option for boys. (Tracy, Stacy, Dana...and now, Avery, Taylor, Ashley...) I've always liked Avery--for a BOY--but now it's known as a girl's name.
With all the options out there, you'd think the girl-mommies could find something they like in the girls' section of the name books.
(sorry if I'm offending anybody...but as a mom to little boys, I feel obligated to stand up for 'em!)
Thanks to everyone who contributed to the "Lovely" dilema. I know it was a few threads ago, but I haven't had an opportunity to post until now.
I did speak to my cousin, and gently stated that although she may be doing the hard part, it was probably a good idea if she and her husband came to some sort of agreement on a name. I also used some of your suggestions on names that may have a similar feel or sound to Lovely. As our discussion progressed she started to have labor pains, which after 5 hours at the hospital turned out to be Braxton Hicks.
She liked Calantha and Lavender (Thanks HYZ & Jenny L3igh). She was also charmed by the idea of the nn Lovie (Thank you Miriam), so the rest of my family have been trying to come up with ideas she can play around with. Her husband likes the Lavender Lee suggestion, but although she is now more open to alternatives, she still really wants Lovely.
If anyone can think of a name that could use Lovie as a nn, please let me know. I will keep u all posted on any progress.
Thanks again!
hmmm Lovie as a nn.. Lizaveta, Olive, Olivia?
Maybe a name that has the same meaning/feel as Lovely.. Adora, Amabel, even Harmony?
I think the best bet would be any 2 names with the initials L.V. Lucy Violet, Louise Veronica (going for the Lo Ve), Leonie Vivienne?
Here's some history on Cordelia for those of you who are interested in the name, it seems to come up a lot:
http://www.MedievalScotland.org/problem/given/cordelia.shtml
Same idea for some others (Rowan's in there) are linked here:
http://www.MedievalScotland.org/problem/#given
Buttercup: I know someone named Levita - that could be spelled Loveta and lead to Lovie as a nn.
Buttercup - I did a letter sequence (lov) search on NameFinder and got these:
Clover - not awful
Clovison
Foxglove
Love - maybe don't mention this one
Lovetta - Loretta with the super hot v
Lovie
Lovisa - I saw credit card
My personal feeling is that if she really wants to name her daughter "Lovely," then she should. If it were me, I would put it in the middle slot and then call her that. The birth certificate would say Clarissa Lovely Jones and When she goes to pre-school or kindergarten, she can decide whether she wants to go by her "milk name" or her official first name. Lots of cultures have the concept of a "milk name," which is a name used when the child is young, or just by the family. There are a few women named Lovely on Facebook, so it's not unheard of. I considered using Love as a middle name a la Jennifer Love Hewitt. My understanding is that friends actually call her Love.
Lovie reminds me of the Millionaire's Wife on Gilligan's Island and the slang term for a child's security item.
Buttercup--
Lovie is a given name, not just a nickname (although obviously it could be a nn given to any child who is loved--which should be all of them). One of the teachers at my son's elementary school was named Lovie. It wouldn't be my choice, but since it is a demonstrated name, it might be preferable to Lovely if your sister is set on something along those lines.
Lovisa is a form of Louisa in several different languages and certainly could give rise to Lovie as a nn.
BTW Loveday is a very old name (OE leofdaeg) that has fallen into disuse which your sister might want to revive. In medieval England a loveday was a day for settling disputes/debts, and a child (male or female) born on a loveday might be named after the day. Eventually the name became female only. Loveday has also survived as a surname.
A 'lovie' is also a slang term in the UK for an actor- it implies someone a bit theatrical and affected who calls everyone 'lovie' or 'dahling' and kisses the air profusely!
I went to an elementary school open house in a famous beach town here in southern CA (LA county) for my Godson who is in first grade.
The names were great. Here are some standouts from his class:
GIRLS-
Bronwen
Saxon
Flora
Vivi3n Ros3
BOYS-
Jonah (not a standout, but he's my Godson)
Truman (big brother to Ivy)
Gerald
Griffin
I also saw a famous 80's/90's supermodel there with her family. Not naming names, but she has a famous mole. Gorgeous kids!
bianca- I really like the idea of 2 names w/ L.V., as for the others, unfortunately my cousins name begins w/an A and she doesn't want an A name for her baby (personally, Adora and Amabel are favorites). Also our Granny had a cat called Harmony, so that's out.
SarahC- I *love* Clover w/ the nn Lovie.
Lovisa- too credit cardish, made me laugh.
I agree.
Miriam- I actually really like the name Loveday. I don't know why, when I have such a problem with Lovely. Thanks for the info. on its history...that makes me like it even more.
I'm going to visit w/ the (un)happy couple tomorrow, and will pass on the plethora of great ideas.
Thanks!
Belle Graze-- I'm quite taken with "Fable" especially-- your cousins sound interesting. And although I'm not a die-hard Republican, I AM thoroughly traditionalist and philosophically a Buckley/Reagan conservative, often driven to voting Repub. for lack of a better alternative. We can be quite diverse, quirky, and non-scary. (Just teasing-- end of editorial!)
Nina S., thanks, "Esmeralda" is extravagant and mysterious!
Amy3-- Great suggestion! I would not have in a million years thought of googling "romany names", but that should yeild lots-- thank you for being so literate...
bianca-- So enjoyed your Gypsy names. Some of my faves are:
Gilderoy
Vandlo
Jofranka
Mozol (which means "black current"-- love!)
And your mention of Manx names was great since they are another category I love. Your Moirrey, Malane and Calyvorra are ones I've liked so much. Dorrin was new to me and it is very appealing-- I could see it fitting in very much with modern tastes.
Other old Manx names I like:
Affrica/Aurick/Averick
Flaunys
Calybrid
Wilmot
Gospatrick
Gilmartyn
Perhaps you also like Cornish names? As in Tregereth, Mellyn, Morveren...
By the way, apologies to the veterans of this board as I've droned on about these names before. But since bianca was interested and Laura keeps attracting brand new people to the site, thought it was worth another whirl...
toothfairy-- I am sympathetic to your concern about boy names traveling east (to girls). As the mother of a son, it WOULD bother me if his name gradually became feminized. I did once hear talk of "Benjamin" being appropriated for a girl, as a matter of fact!
One of the (several) reasons we didn't give him the family surname "Trennum" as a first name was because I believe some would see it as a girl's name, a la "Tatum". Trennum is probably a corruption of "Trenholm", and I suppose we could have gone with that spelling, but then it would lose the family connection...
When our teenage neighbor was named "Taylor", I believe it was still masculine, or at least unisex? Now, wouldn't most people assume he was a girl?
But, paradoxically, I don't object to girls being given family surnames, if the parents like them and want to perpetuate the name in some way. I know it's a bit contradictory...
I guess it's the traditional boys' names like "William" and "Michael" that I don't like to see cross over...
Melissa M: Love the idea of the crash course for your husband!
Belle Graze: Bi Ming, nn Bibi, is very cute! Sound like a good solution for diasporic Chinese. I'm curious for more info about Fable and Griffin's parents. Laura has talked about parents' age influencing how creative they are with their naming; are they younger parents? Of course Griffin is not kre8iv... it's just not like... Alexander or something.
Buttercup: For nn Lovie, Laverne, Lavinia
Eo: Is Affrica related at all to the continent? Or just happens to have the same letters?
I have a friend looking for a boys name to go with Justice and Kennedy - both girls. Any ideas??
I also find it frustrating when "boy" names are given to girls--because I already feel like boys names are harder to come up with, and it seems like the pool is becoming increasingly limited as the names go to the girls. I personally know (all under age 10 or 11), 2 girls named Avery, a Bryce, a Kevin, a Mychael, an Elliot, a Dylan, and a Micah.
That being said, I always thought of Taylor as the "girl" name and Tyler as the "boy" version...till I recently encountered a female Tyler, age 15 or so, and a 5 year old boy named Taylor...so I guess those are going either way.
@Jessica--Anthony? (ha, I'm just joking--based on Justice Anthony Kennedy)
A girl named Kevin?? That's very odd. I wouldn't have foreseen that name appealing to the parents of girls, unlike something like Emerson, with an easy girly nickname, or Jonah or Elijah, which have feminized-sounding endings in an English/European context.
Buttercup, I really like Miriam's suggestion of Loveday. It reminds me of Thackeray's middle name, Makepeace, which has always appealed so much. Does anyone know if that was a virtue name or a family surname in his case?
I also like the suggested Louise Veronica, Lucy Victoria, etc. Would the name Blythe appeal to your cousin? It's not quite in line with the way you've presented her tastes, but it's similar in positive associations and virtue-naming status to Lovely, with the benefit of being a standard first name.
I know a girl Bradley. Sigh. Hunter is another cross-over head scratcher for me.
Jessica - with girls named Justice and Kennedy, I guess you'd have to go classic boy name or uber-masculine name. James, John, etc, or Ford, Stone,Cash, etc.
I have to say, I'm a Loveday fan, too. Lovely as a given name is just too risky, imho. How awful to be an awkward, plain teenager named Lovely!
@Buttercup, I think Loveday would be a wonderful choice for your cousin and would allow her to use Lovie or Lovely as nns.
@MelissaM, I love the idea of your crash course in naming for your husband. You'll have to give us an update afterward.
I love the suggestions others havemade for Lovie having a more formal name.
Also, the boy/girl trading of names bothers me too. In this day and age, I would assume a Taylor, Avery, or Addison was a girl. My dd has a classmate though who is a boy Addison. Confused me at first.
For a boy to go with Justice and Kennedy-
Riley, Brady, Quinn, Caden, Reid, Cooper, Gavin, Reagan, McKinley, Logan, Quincy, Vaughn, Drake, Monroe, Maddox
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