(For real, this time!)
Perhaps you've heard, the economy's taken a bit of a stumble lately? As families cut back and surveys reveal a bleak mood, the natural question in these parts is how the downturn will play out in baby names.
The popular idea in the press and the blogosphere is that parents will retreat to the reliable comfort of classic names. A few reporters have tried to pry this prediction out of me. (One was particularly eager for me to forecast a comeback for Faith and Hope. I had to break it to him that it's too late, they're already back.) In fact, some news reports have claimed that the return to tradition has already begun. Take the Reuters article titled "Parents get serious about baby names in tough year," with its bold opening statment: "Most parents have abandoned unusual names for their children..."
The idea sounds plausible, because many choices do work this way in economic downturns. In the world of investing, it's called the "flight to quality." The idea is that in uncertain times, people make the safest possible bets and aim for lasting value. Consumers, similarly, drop luxury in favor of utility.
Yet there are also good reasons to expect name trends to behave differently from investments or consumer goods. The most basic is that baby names are free. In a time of belt-tightening, why not indulge in a cost-free extravagance? Anastasia won't set you back a penny more than Ann. In fact, lower-income parents are more likely to try unusual, eye-catching and newly-introduced names -- quite different from, say, food purchasing patterns.
A second reason is found in the motivations of modern baby namers. Many parents who seek the unusual are convinced that distinctive names will give their kids an advantage in life. Think of it like a creatively packaged product standing out on a store shelf. The tougher the competitive landscape, the more this perceived advantage should matter to parents.
Finally, there's the fact that the movement away from tradition has been accelerating for years. An immediate surge of traditional naming would be the fashion equivalent of a runaway freight train suddenly backing back up a mountain.
So where do the claims of reversal come from? If you read the Reuters article closely, you'll see they (and may others) were inspired by a press release from the online parenting community BabyCenter.com. In the release, the BabyCenter folks note the rise of certain specific traditional names among their users. But is there a consistent pattern?
In fact, if you look at the BabyCenter popularity lists from the last several years, 2008 looks like more of the same. The bellwether traditional classics like John, James and William continued their steady descent down the rankings. And if you tally up the top 20 for boys and girls, as a group the 2008 names were much less popular a century ago than the 2006 names. In other words, no "flight to quality" has been spotted so far (and don't believe everything you read in the paper).
So let's toss out our preconceptions and return to the question: what effect will the recession have on naming patterns? To form a hypothesis, we can look to historical precedent. Did baby naming change during the Great Depression? And if so, was there the retreat to strength and safety that so many observers expect today?
To be continued...
Comments
@ toothfairy- I know what you mean with masculine names for girls. Regarding Avery, my dad who is in his 50's is an Avery, and he is hoping that people will not just let it go over to the girls side without a fight. I know only 1 little girl Avery (3 yo).But I know 2 young Avery's one about 2 yo and the other 14 yo.
@Jessica- Maybe you could suggest Jack, Ryder/Rider, or Malachi...
I strongly dislike girls being given boys' names. It's sort of an anti-feminist kick in the teeth to all the great girls names out there. (I hate a lot of surname names too, it's not the buffet of great finds that people seem to think it is..) Maybe boys parents' do need to take a stand and win back Avery. He's worth it!
Eo - I really like Vandlo. I wonder if some are either Gypsy or just used by them, it's hard to tell: Dooriya, Rupa, Rawnie Truffeni Darklis Mairenni Brishen Camlo Lennor Merripen Jivin Tahnee Vancy.
I like the Manx names like Calybrid (has the 'brid' too, like Bridgid or Bridie) that begin with 'Caly' maybe because it's easier to feel that they're firstly Manx, whereas others might known as Scottish or Gaelic names.. Thomlyn, Jole, Olave, Ibbot/Issot (I think nn forms of Isabelle) Coonie Vorana Darraty (Dorothy) and I think maybe Flaxney was one.
I don't know too many Cornish names. I like Elowen. What about Merryn? Suits the boy names for girls names discussion.
I was also looking at Old English names and found versions of Christopher like 'Xopher' or 'Xdopher' and was wondering if anybody knows if these would be alternate spellings pronouncing 'X' as 'Christ' or just written abbreviations similar to 'Xmas' ?
The X is an abbreviation for Christ, so the name is simply Christopher. BTW Christopher is not in any sense an Old English name.
Miriam - I read the name in the context of the geographical region and historical time, but did not to intend to state that Christopher itself was a name of Old English origin. I am aware, as my question included, that X is an abbreviation for Christ. What I was interested in, was whether or not an individual would use Xopher as an exclusive spelling of their name, or alternatively, would all individuals named Christopher have used this X form as an optional shorthand.
RobynT-- I have wondered that myself! The Isle of Man government website indicates that "Affrica/Aufrica/Effrica" and the "Aurick/Averick" offshoots by implication do mean "a maid (young girl) from Africa".
That is my favorite theory. There's something so neat about an ancient, tiny, mist-shrouded British kingdom paying tribute to the great titanic continent of Africa!
Another site on Manx names posits that in old Gaelic the name means something like "dappled" and mentions an Irish river with related name.
Affrica, daughter of Godred, King of (the Isle of) Man, was an actual historical figure, and two abbesses in the 8th and 9th century bore the name as well..
Wow bianca you are a wonderful source. I love Vancy, Truffeni, Merripen, Thomlyn, Ibbot, Darraty, Flaxney.
By the way, that Isle of Man site also gave "Dolen" as a Manx variant of Donald. Wasn't someone here awhile back looking for fresher versions of "Donald" to pay naming tribute to a relative? I think Dolen is neat. I suppose many people would assume it was a surname-name like "Dolan", however...
@whoever said that they know a girl Hunter (sorry don't want to struggle to scroll back) that reminds me that I met a girl Tanner too, which struck me as really odd. Especially since she was 11 or 12, so older than most of the boy/girl current crossovers.
I have known two men named Kaylee (that's almost certainly not the spelling, but I'm not sure what it is...) They are in there 30s and 40s. Was this also once a boy's name?
I often wonder what makes newly-invented names boy/girl. Is it the nickname, as a previous poster suggested (Emerson, Emmie, girl, Camden, Cammie, girl)? I know when I see it that Harper is likely a girl and Parker is likely a boy, but why?
As has been pointed out here in the past, you can't even rely on -son's what with Maddison, Addison, Alison etc. belonging to girls almost exclusively now...
Bianca, I'm sorry I didn't understand your question, and I am not sure that I understand it yet. However, in general terms, vellum/parchment was expensive, and the scribes who wrote manuscripts used many abbreviations to save on materials. However, the abbreviations were not obligatory, and commonly abbreviated words/names could also be spelled out. Just so in relatively recent John was often abbreviated Jno and Joseph Jos, but the same individual could also spell his name out. Here is an interesting example (for the benefit of those doing genealogy) of what common forename abbreviations would have looked like in handwritten documents of, say, the 18th and 19th century. You will notice that Xpher/Xtopher is among them.
http://www.amberskyline.com/treasuremaps/x-prop.html
Aybee, Alison/Alysoun/Alisoun has always been a feminine name dating back to the Middle Ages. It is a diminutive of Alice and is not a patronym.
Buttercup, I'm not sure that Loveday is any better than Lovely when it comes for teasing potential, if that's your main concern.
As to girls being given what are traditionally boys' names, I too know a young female Avery. The daughter of an acquaintance is named Evan. She is expecting another girl and I can't wait to hear the name. I was very surprised when a friend's sister recently named her son Kalin (pronounced Kaylin)!
re:Affrica/Africa: I wondered where the name of the continent came from too. This site (http://crawfurd.dk/africa/word.htm) says one theory is it is from Greek and Roman terms for sunny or not cold (2nd para). Couple other sources (one being Wikipedia) say similar.
re: Kalin as boy's name: I knew this as a boy's name first! His was spelled Kalen and he would be in his early 20s now I think.
Miriam - My reason for asking was because I was wondering if Xopher could be considered a legitimate spelling of Christopher in the same way that Tim and Zach are considered forms of Timothy and Zachary, or if Xopher would fall into a different category alongside the likes of w/, p.s., 2nd, and Dr. I imagine spellings were not really an issue due to illiteracy anyway. Thanks for the link, it helped:)
Eo - thanks! I'm glad you like the names. I google a lot and actually write them down. *geek* Now if I only knew how to confirm them..
Going back to Laura's entry, I was poking around on the name voyager and noticed that the 30s seem to be the years that American naming patterns really started to *change*. If you look at the aggregate graphs for each gender and the full set, the 1880s-1920s seem fairly consistent- there are some slow changes happening, but it all seems to accelerate during the 30s. There's that bubble of increased naming conformity from the 40s to the 60s, but that's a time of economic prosperity.
This is probably a case of finding what you're looking for, but there's also the part where some of the trendiest 1930s names are androgynous (Beverly, Shirley, Bobby, Joan), celebrity-insired (Shirley, Marlene, Marilyn), variants thereof (Arlene) and...creative names (Marilyn, Bettye). Which are, of course, the trends that geometrically increase through the latter part of the 20th century, if you sort of ignore the weirdness that is the 50s.
So- economic depression results in a rapid *change* in naming patterns? I'm realllly looking forward to Laura's part 2. If economic disruption initiates changes in naming patterns, are we going to see new patterns or will it just be an intensification of the trends from the 30s?
I'm off to poke about in the SSA data...when's part II going up?!
Blythe - I'm very interested to see your take on the SSA data. With my "research", I'm very frustrated. Any changes I noticed in rising or falling of certain types of names seemed incidental. Like names that were beginning to rise or fall in the twenties just continued in an unremarkable pattern through the thirties. It seemed too tame a change to point to the depression as a cause. (Like Emma was rising before "Friends".)
I am going to look at NV with your analysis in mind now.
Melissa M,
Congratulations!
Hmm. With brothers Nathaniel and Alexander, you say? I'm thinking of classic names with a little romance that wouldn't have sounded too old-fashioned in the 80s. Colette strikes me as a good suggestion. I also like the compromise suggestions of Josephine, Jocelyn and Jacqueline and Annabel.
What about Roxanne? It has been sounding very appealing to me lately. Miranda? I love the nickname Mira. Or Marina, another favorite here?
Other offerings to consider, for what they're worth:
Helena
Stella
Lilliana
Cleo
Anna
Thea
Anneliese
Juliet or Julia
Sadie (or name you girl Sarah and call her Sadie)
Leila
Tessa
Serena
Catherine
Gemma
Are we on the right track? Will any of these appeal to your husband; do they have any appeal for you?
Very interested to know what you choose. Please do tell us!
FWIW, I know of a ~6 mo old boy named Avery.
Why can't names be shared between genders? I don't see it as either pro or anti feminist, or anything else. Feminine names have always had more variety, or flexibility (in fact, this is a trend across the board -- which gender has the most socially acceptable modes of dress, number of hairstyles, choices of careers or lack thereof, etc.?). Why not let masculine names take on some of this standard feminine virtue of versatility?
Moonlady,
Unfortunately, in today's culture I think it's really hard to saddle a boy with a "girl-leaning" name. Feminism has made it easy for girls to sport boy's names, but unfortunately I think the opposite isn't yet true. More common boy's names like Ryan and Alex seem to hold their own as masculine, even when they're used by girls, but less common names (Avery) or newly invented/last names now used as first names (Taylor, Jaden) seem to struggle for a generation splitting the genders, then fall exclusively to the girls. (Think Ashley, Lesley, Dana)
I'm sure part of it is the ratio of girls using a name that eventually pushes it all the way out of boy territory. Too bad more names don't split themselves neatly like Francis and Frances!
I'm a girl who considers myself supportive of the feminist cause. Our sons have a kitchen set; I kept my maiden name... we're very conscientious about promoting gender equality at home, and yet I still wouldn't saddle one of my boys with a girl-leaning name. The world, unfortunately, expects boys to be boys, and girls to be whatever they want to be. It seems cruel to give a kid such an easy target for teasing over which they have no control.
We know a middle-school boy Taylor, and he holds his own, but I've heard him lament more than once that he wishes his name wasn't so girl-sounding. His friends usually call him by his last name, a practice he seems to encourage.
Now that we're pregnant again I am starting to hear whispers of "what names are you considering," and I'll answer with "Amelia (Milly) and Avery," to which people respond, "And for boys?" Garh!
Moonlady, toothfairy, and others-I am fascinated by your comments on gender orientation for names. I've never thought of this as a feminism issue or rebellion type of thing. I however, look at it as more of a sound issue. I believe Laura touched on this a bit once that there are certain sounds that frequent girl versus boy names. Right now I'm thinking the -n ending(b) as opposed to the -ie ending(g). So Jamie sounds more girl as an example and Jayden sounds more boy. However, the Jay- beginning sound is given equally to boys and girls James/Jane etc so Jayden COULD be a girl and Jamie COULD be a boy. I hope I am explaining this well enough.
I keep wondering about all the -iah names and wondering if they are "going girl". Names like Josiah with the Jo- beginning could be similar enough to Josephine, and Isiah could be similar to Isabelle, etc. Laura, something to think about for a future post maybe.
Is it ok to name a baby boy Lev or Levi in English (not Hebrew) even though we are not Levi's (we are Israelites)?
Toothfairy- I think if you really like Avery for a boy, name him that! But just make sure you give a an uber masculine name or classic name. Then when people ask what's his name say both and they will know he is a boy for example a=Avery John, Avery Christopher, Avery Mitchell.
I know a lot of little boys with somewhat female names, a little Hunter, Avery, Kalen, Cameron, Hayden, Riley (x3).
Jackie Sue--
Lev and Levi are two entirely different names. Lev is a modern Israeli name meaning 'heart' and has nothing to do with Levi or Levites. Lev is also a Russian name meaning 'lion' and was used by Eastern European Jewish men as a shem kinnui (everyday vernacular name) when the shem kodesh ('legal' name for ritual purposes) was Ari/Ariel ('lion'/'lion of G-d').
Usually membership in the priestly caste (Levites) is signaled by a surname like Levy, Levin(e), Lewin, etc., not by the given name Levi.
In any case, the general rule is that the shem kinnui (in this case, the English name) can be just about anything. The restrictions about suitability fall only on the shem kodesh. Any questions you may have about choosing a suitable name would be happily answered by your rabbi.
Thanks to all on input about Mark. It took a little for it to grow on me, but I think it has.
Jackie Sue - I think Levi has some potential for growth as name in the U.S.. I have heard it on the playgrounds in the last 3 years several times (I live in an area where Aiden clones reign supreme). I suspect it may appeal both to the religious and to the hipster crowd.
On the boy's names trending towards girl names: it doesn't seem to bother this generation of kids. (I have both a female and male Taylor and Jordan this year). As a teacher, what makes me bonkers is keeping the spellings straight. Cayla or Kayla? Etc.
As for common names, Megan W. wasn't common when I was a child, but obviously became VERY common. As my middle and last names are also quite common, I have had trouble with medical records, school applications and picking up prescriptions at the local pharmacy. I am very careful always to use my middle name and check the birthdate. A little less common is preferable in my book. That being said, I have no personal need to be uber-creative in naming - I hope my kids will stand out for who they are.
"That being said, I have no personal need to be uber-creative in naming - I hope my kids will stand out for who they are."
Well said-Megan W.
Megan W.: My brother's name is Timothy Joseph! What do you think of my other brother's name - Peter? It would fit in with your husband's preference for saints' names. I really like the name, but it wouldn't go over well in my family for me to name a baby after one brother and not the other. Peter is a classic name that is a little out of style right now (not sure why), which I think would make it stand out.
Re names going girl, I know quite a few male Ashley's, of various ages (including little ones). Most female versions tend to be spelled Ashleigh but it can go either way. I still think it is a split name and can go either way. I actually much prefer it on a boy to be truthful, and I'm not sure why.
I definitely think Avery can be male or female, and am glad that some people are still considering it for males. I can still even see Ainsley as a male name. Dana I think I'd have trouble with though.
I did see a male baby Eden the other day and it threw me for a second, but I don't actually mind it on boys, I was just a little surprised as I'm used to seeing that one on girls.
Out of interest, I quite like Ambrose (as a boys name only) but can see that the nickname potential is quite girly. What do others think of this name, and what nns could you use that aren't in any way related to Amber or Rose?
Oh dear, Lovely. If she's beautiful, people will accuse her of being vain, even if she didn't name herself. If she's not, she'll be called Hideous. What about giving her a name that has nothing to do with Love and calling her Lovie or Lovely at home? If she's proud of it, she can go off to school with it; if she'd prefer to keep it at home she can do that. We and our daughter's preschool teachers are giggling away, trying to decide how long our daughter's self-invented name "Firefly" will stick. But it's up to her. The nice thing about having a fairly ordinary name is that you can be nicknamed almost anything!
Ambrose is pretty, but a bit precious for my tastes. Perhaps for that reason I immediately thought of the nickname Bam-Bam.
re: Levi: as someone who knows virtually nothing about jewish naming (except what i've managed to put into long-term memory from this board), i could see Levi being inspired by sources other than Judaism as well (e.g. Levi jeans, Levi-Strauss).
re: Ambrose: I love this name! Maybe Ambo?
Chimu: I also wonder about all these male Ashleys you know. Is this in the U.S.? Do you think it is regional (e.g. Southern, western, etc)?
You know, I originally didn't understand people's objection to using traditionally boy names on girls (for awhile I had considered Elliott for a future daughter). I just thought that it was kind of nice to find a smart, strong, not traditionally feminine name for a girl. I understand better now, however, after trying hard to find boy names that my husband and I both like, that the pool of "not too boring but not weird" boy names is not that large, and that people might get annoyed as that pool shrinks. I hadn't thought about names crossing over and not going back, but I suppose that does happen.
I am really intrigued by Megan W.'s recent comment, however, about how the kids she's in contact with don't seem to be bothered by names that go both ways. I think we have a long way to go with gender politics, because it's fine for a girl to have a traditionally masculine name and to do masculine things, but it's still a serious handicap for a boy to have a name (or hobby or liking) that's considered feminine. Is there a chance that, with the rise in gender neutral and unusual names, the younger kids are less sensitive to some of the gender coding (at least name-wise if in no other way)? That would be nice.
Maybe I shouldn't be on a soapbox about it, since I'm not willing to be an activist with my future son. I think I mentioned in an earlier post that my husband really would love to name a son Camille, and I just can't bring myself to do it.
RobynT.--
Jackie Sue's concern is whether she is ENTITLED to use the name Levi as the English name (shem kinnui) for her son, since the family are Israelites, not Levites. It is not a matter of trying to claim some non-Jewish inspiration for the name. As it happens Levi Strauss, responsible for jeans, that great American invention now beloved the world wide, was born Loeb Strauss, and Levi is an artifact of Ellis Island. (Loeb means 'lion' and often indicates an underlying Judah or Ari). The surname of the anthropologist Claude Lévi-Strauss is pronounced lay-vee, which is likely not what Jackie Sue had in mind. Of course, both men were/are Jews.
Jackie Sue clearly wants to avoid the situation like the one where random people name their child Cohen because it is the surname of some tv character when they have no claim whatsoever to the title.
I don't think it's a problem because (a.) unlike Cohen, Levi is a given name and (b) as a title it follows the given name, as in Judah Benjamin ha-Levi (in Hebrew 'ha' is the equivalent of 'the'). When Jews were forced to take surnames, the titles ha-Levi and ha-Cohen, since they already followed the given names, often morphed into the required family names. Thus I don't think that Jackie Sue's use of Levi as the (English) name of her son would be making a claim of status to which he would not be entitled.
But as I said above, any questions regarding the appropriateness/suitability of a name for a Jewish child should be referred to the local rabbi. The entire purpose of a rabbi is to answer questions about Jewish law and custom authoritatively.
In thinking about the boy/girl gender naming problem and Mirnada's comment about Camille for a boy, I tried to think of other very traditional (atleast in my mind) girl names that might have sounds that could work in boy land. Here's what I came up with:
Amanda
Bonnie nn Bo
Calista nn Cal
Polly (unique sp of Paul-ie)
Kendall
Nicole (smush of Nick + Cole/or diff version of Nicholas)
Any others anyone else can think of??
i actually know a boy named kendall (not sure on the spelling). in fact, i'm not sure i realized it was a girl's name as well until pretty late in life.
zoerhenne - letting go of my gut reaction, I have to add these:
Jane (Jack, Zane, Dane, etc)
Katie (Cody, K.T., Tate)
Liz
has anyone seen the show firefly? there's a man named jayne in that show and bizarrely enough, he totally pulls it off. i wouldn't have thought it possible, but somehow it works.
Robyn T - I forgot to mention that I'm in Australia. So maybe the Ashley effect is different here? I still know plenty of girl Ashley/leighs but also lots of boy ones too (including some little ones). I think a lot of people have moved to Ashton recently though for boys (I blame Kutcher for that one).
I have no problem with girls having unisex names in general, but I think that I probably prefer more feminine names these days as my married surname is quite gruff and one syllable and sounds a bit silly with a unisex girls name. Plus, lots of those names are really nice! On the other hand, one of my friends has a married surname of Rose, she has 3 boys. When naming them she always lamented the fact she couldn't pick any names that were too 'soft'. She didn't pick anything ultra-masculine though.
I used to work at a preschool (1 year ago) and had many female students w/ what I viewed as traditionally male names.
Ryan & Kyle (sisters)
Aiden Mae (we had 2 Aidens, 1boy & 1 girl, so we used her mn)
Elliot
Ashton
Julian
Rafael
The boys hated it when they had a girl in their class w/ the same name (as did most of their parents). Although it didn't bother me at the time, now I understand how irritating it can be to watch the list of masculine names dwindle. I always wanted to call my future son Julian, but when I got to know a little girl with that name... now that's who I envision whenever I hear it. Kind of spoiled things for me.
I loved Firefly! Jayne was one of my favorite characters, a morally neutral tank. I think it was his last name, though? But it is what everybody called him.
On boys' names, maybe it's time we started making new names for boys. There must be ways to create new masculine-sounding good, solid names. After all we do it with girls' names all the time. At some ages the kids probably won't mind how they sound, and at other ages they'll hate it - probably the same ages when gender roles are being defined (say, middle school).
moonlady, actually i believe his name was jayne cobb. it's always fun to run into somebody else who likes firefly. :]
Count me in as one who doesn't like boys names being hijacked by parents with girls. My mother took my son, Grady, to the park last week and on the swings he was next to a little girl his own age also named Grady. I asked my mom if she inquired about girl-Grady's spelling and she didn't. I'm quite sure it was something kre8ive like Graydee. or Graydeigh. Also, my mom said that girl-Grady's mom commented to HER about how Grady sounds more like a girl's name. What???? I kind of hope we don't live in the same school district....
Also, just born to a friend last week, a son, Tr!stan R!ley. He will be called Riley. That is a name I'd love to see the boys take back. (You all may remember a couple months ago, I was inquiring about the meaning of the name Tristan, which is Tumult, and whether it should be brought up during a baby shower game.)
Ooh, I am a recent Firefly convert---I love the episode where everyone thinks that Jayne Cobb is a folk hero and they wrote a whole song about him. The one thing that bothers me about the names in that show is the sibset of Simon and River. I just can't get over it--it seems so odd that parents would name a boy Simon, and then pick River for the little sister, it's so un-matchy!
And fwiw, at my work for a while we had a guy named Tristan and a girl named TristAin. We referred to them as "boy Tristan" and "girl Trist@in". :)
I also dislike boys names being hijacked!!! My dh and I fell in love with the boy name Taran almost 10 years ago (he is a little bit of a NE too so we have been naming our yet unborn children for years!). But in recent years we've seen Taryn used as a girl a little too often, so we reluctant to use it now, but still love it and are looking for new boy name ideas...
Can I just say how much I love coming onto this site? I was having a rough morning, but after catching up on all the comments I feel so much better! And now apologies for a long post...
@Celebrity names- I just have to comment on Petal Blossom Rainbow! I don't think I'd do it, but I don't mind Petal, Poppy and Daisy (seems better on little girls than older ones, but still). Not feeling Blossom Rainbow though... I know someone who named her daughter something that translates to Blue Bird (Azure MN) and I think you can do something like that which is neat, gets the nature in, but isn't quite so... corny? Not sure what I'm looking for. But Petal isn't too bad. And Blakesley is definitely tough to say, I wonder if it's a surname or if they were just going for a longer name for Blake?
MelissaM- I had a feeling about Genevieve for your dh, it immediately popped into my head after I read your post, that's so funny!
Belle Graze- Thanks for sharing those interesting sibsets, I'm actually loving Fable even though it doesn't match my normal style at all!
Amy3- What a fascinating list of names, it covers so many of the trends we talk about. Interesting to see Dahlia and Delilah on there... Florence and Imogen and Ian and Tess are great sibsets. The most surprising name to me is Tiffany, I wonder if she's named after mom??
Buttercup, so glad we could help! It's a very interesting challenge. Not sure how I feel about Loveday. I think it's a neat name and would be great to bring back for a book character or something, but I agree with whoever said that it may not help with teasing. "Do you love the day?" "Are you only a morning person?" That said it does have a nice history that would be fun for her to share as she grows up... I also like the L.V. suggestion Lucy Violet, Louise Veronica, and Leonie Vivenne are all great.
Peggotty- I'm so surprised by Saxon, I've never heard it as a name before! Miriam, any insight on that? Obviously not in relation to their particular choice, but has it ever been used as a name?
Nikki- I just love the name Tristan on a boy, I'm not sure I'll get approval to use it, but I do like it!
re: Kendall: Yes, I also knew this as a boy name before I knew it as a girl name. But the two I know are around the same age (~30).
Miriam: Yes, I guess you are right that the question was about being entitled to use Levi. I was just thinking about folks who might come to the name not knowing it was Jewish. But we've had that convo here before...
Chimu: Interesting what you say about last names. I'm curious what your "gruff" last name is! The only thing I've thought about last names before is that with a more unusual last name, I'd be more inclined to give my kids "easier" (to spell, say) first names. And vice versa, if I was a Jones or Smith or something I'd go as unusual with the fn as I could stand.
knp: where did you find this NE husband? so lucky!
anne with an e,
regarding simon and river, i definitely agree. very peculiar. perhaps name perceptions are quite different in the future... :]
knp,
i'm sorry to say that i do know a girl named taryn (she'd be about 23 or 24 now). however, taran is still a great name; i think you should use it if you still really like it when you have children.
RobynT- Your comment about uncommon last names going with common first names is exactly what I was thinking in response to the earlier question (I forget who asked) about popularity. I have an uncommon ln which I think is partially why I never minded being a Jennifer (I also refuse to be called Jen, which helps since that is the most common nn). My bf has quite a common ln though and while I may keep my own name, my children would probably have his. We had talked about Abigail awhile ago and I love the name, but I'm not sure I'd want to do it with his last name... with mine? No problem.
Also another thought on popularity. Now that I'm no longer in school I've found that the names that caused problems in schools are not necessariy as common when you are mixing with people with ages from 22-80 as opposed to everyone in your grade. So there are only two Jennifers, including me, in my workplace. When you look at different ages the most common name I know is Katherine (I have soo many in my phone, mostly Katies and Kates, but still). At work there are 2 Lees, 3 Stevens, 2 Rachels, 3 Megans (multiple spellings), 2 Toms, 2 Nancys, and 3 James (one of whom goes by Jamie and one Jim), 2 female Jamies (2 spellings), and a just Jim. I had never realized how many James-type names there are here! But, there is only 1 Jason, 1 Heather, 1 Ashley. So, there is something to be said for a popular, but date-stamped name... once you get out of school you may be the only one! And professionally that's kind of nice.
Jenny L3igh, I have never met anyone with the given name Saxon, but it is a surname, and thus could certainly be used in those circles where it is customary to use family surnames as given names. The name is derived from 'sahs/sax/seax' which referred to a particular type of knife/sword. The Germanic tribe, the Saxons, derived their tribal name from the fact that they used that distinctive implement/weapon.
Also on popularity:
My future s-i-l is St@sha Katherine-- but has gone by Katie/Kate her entire life. I have never asked, but wonder why she chose the more common name, or if she never consciously did and that was just what her parents called her. I know that her dad wanted to name her Katherine and her mom St@sha. Especially Katie, which seems to be toooo popular for me.
RobynT: I don't know how I found him, but we have spent a lot of road trips just brainstorming names-- great time killer!
RE: #134 (Guest)
I am far more annoyed by people who use male names when there is a prefectly lovely feminine form (as there is with so many names). It always looks like the parents are trying too hard to impress others.
What is wrong with Rafaella? It’s pretty, why give Rafael to a girl. Julie or Juliana are both lovely.
I am mystified that anyone would choose Max over the absolutely adorable Maxine (or Maxime)! And you still get the boyish Max as a nn. I do like the boyish nns.
Emilyrae
"The hero of Canton, the man they call Jayne..."
:D Love that show. I think the main reason that Jayne pulls of the name is that he is UBERmasculine. No one would every accuse him of being feminine - or effeminate - because he'd kill them. Secondly, he really wears the name like it's a surname - even though it's not (Jayne Cobb is his full name). Like when someone named John Smith is called 'Smith' by everyone. But I really think it's his over-the-top 'masculine' persona that makes the name work for him.
"The one thing that bothers me about the names in that show is the sibset of Simon and River. I just can't get over it--it seems so odd that parents would name a boy Simon, and then pick River for the little sister, it's so un-matchy!" They do stand out, don't they? But really, how different is that from real life? We TALK about matching names and how parents want to or 'should' do that, but how many parents ACTUALLY do it? I know WE did't. We have two old names, two new 'eclectic' names. My parents didn't - two biblical names which don't 'match' with mine at all.
And then there is Kaylee. Who's name is actually Kaywinnit Lee. I'd probaly go by Kaylee too if my name was Kaywinnit...
I could talk about Firefly for HOURS. :D
The main character on the TV show The Mentalist is named Patrick Jane, but he usually goes by his last name. And he's not uber-masculine like Jayne Cobb...suits and curly hair vs. big muscles and big guns. I don't know if it's because I've also seen Firefly, but Jayne/Jane on a boy just doesn't seem that odd to me! It's like a cross between James and Zane.
ha! oh, the hero of canton...what an amazing song. :D
joni, i definitely agree that jayne could pull off just about any name he wanted. but at the same time, i think andik has a point: jayne (or jane--didn't know that bit about the mentalist!) isn't that far off from a boy's name. certainly it's got a more gender-neutral feel than something like isabella. i'm not sure if even jayne could pull off isabella... :]
yes, i could definitely discuss firefly for hours too! and it really does have a very interesting name landscape.
in addition to what has been said already, i've always been very curious about the origins of the name inara. i wonder if they invented it themselves or if it was a pre-existing name.
it's true what joni says about "un-matchy" sibsets. a lot of people don't adhere to those unspoken rules. how many times have people posted sibsets here that we've responded to with "really? that's surprising..." perhaps mr. and mrs. tam have widely different tastes in names... i know a sibset: marissa, andrew, and sondra. now those aren't wildly different, but to me, they don't quite click.
and agreed: kaywinnit lee is quite the mouthful. looks like even in the future, there are kre8iv parents... :]
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