Last time I talked about (dubious) claims that the recession is turning baby names back toward the traditional, in a parental "flight to quality." Today, I look at the historical precedent: naming during the Great Depression.
My points of comparison were baby names in 1928 before the crash vs. 1932 at the depth of the crisis. A quick eyeballing shows that the traditional classics fell along with the stock market. John, James, William, George, Mary, Katherine, Elizabeth and Margaret all dropped in popularity as the Depression took hold. Now let's zoom in closer.
Applying the standard Baby Name Wizard Hotness Formula, the fastest falling boy's name, by a mile, was...Herbert. That's a clear reaction to the economy, but not in a stylistic way. Parents of the '30s simply decided that Herbert Hoover wasn't a president they'd care to remember. (Let's keep an eye on George in the years ahead.) As a group, the 10 fastest-falling boys' names fell into two categories: namesakes of public figures, and traditional classic names.
1. Herbert
2. Alfred
3. William
4. Harry
5. Joseph
6. Hoover
7. Edward
8. Lindy
9. George
10. Arthur
And the fastest rising boys of the Depression? They were the boyish ones. Check it out:
1. Jackie
2. Jimmy
3. Barry
4. Jerry
5. Franklin
6. Larry
7. Bobby
8. Ronnie
9. Gary
10. Ronald
That's a whole lotta nicknames, with a late smattering of movie stars (Gary Cooper, Ronald Colman). Even as James was falling, Jimmy was soaring. This could suggest a twist on the "flight to quality" idea: a "flight to comfort." Perhaps in a scary world, we just want to curl up under a cozy blanket with our dear little babies. It makes some sense.
Except those are just the boys' names.
Over on the girls' list, the hottest rising names list brimmed with glamourous sophistication. Top-10 gainers included Marlene (as in Dietrich), Carole (Lombard), Joan (Crawford), and Barbara (Stanwyck) -- a veritable honor roll of strong, stylish modern women. Sandra and Sondra both made the list too, their continental panache a contrast to fast-falling names like Helen and Ruth.
If you want a theory of naming for tough times, then, you'll have to account for cuddly, down-home boys and glamorous, urbane girls. I'll take a stab. To me, the key thing to remember is that names aren't simply reflections of our current reality; they're reflections of our dreams.
Amid the job losses and bread lines of the Great Depression, one industry soared: the movies. And sure enough, reports are already piling up that this recession era is following suit with huge box office tallies, especially for comedies, adventures, and rip-roaring spectacles.
Maybe, then, everybody predicting serious, conservative baby naming today has it exactly backwards. In grim times, we don't want solemnity. We want fun and glamour and excitement, and glimpses of a world far removed from layoffs and foreclosures. We certainly want to envision that kind of sunny future for our children. So bring on the creative, carefree names! Why not? They're free.
Recession-era baby naming, Part 2
04/10/2009, 5:33PM
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Comments
Hi ET-- Interesting-- has not "Isaac" taken off in Britain yet? Here in this part of the U.S., (upstate New York) my perception of it has been that it has been gathering steam for some time.
Seems most prevalent in my son's age group (8 and 9 year olds), on down to infants. I'm hearing it with more and more frequency.
Makes me uneasy, since I've always liked it as one of the less prevalent Biblicals. I fervently hope it doesn't go the way of uber-popular Jacob and Joshua.
You may have the advantage in the U.K. though, in that Old Testament names have been somewhat less used there than here in the states. At least since the eighteenth century or thereabouts...Brits started to forsake them for the ever-fashionable Norman Conquest names, New Testament ones, and even saints' names.
So, maybe in your milieu, little Isaacs, Gideons and Enos's will have a clear field and remain distinctive for a few more decades! But if you are concerned about zooming popularity, I would do some research before bestowing the name...
Okay, so from which common Spanish names do we get the diminutives Pancho, Conchita, Pepe, Lupita?
If you want to know, I found a treasure trove today on wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_naming_customs#Mar.C3.ADa_and_Jos.C...
under section 1.9 . There are definitely some NE's on wikipedia!
Valerie: Cool link, but I still don't understand why Pepe is a nn for Jose.
Gosh, I feel like I should know that, RobynT, but I don't. My cousin is named Jose Francisco, and was called Pepe Pancho when he was little, but I don't know how the nicknames evolved.
RobynT- I'm not sure either, but I know that Jose is from Joseph, and that in Italian Joseph is Giuseppe. I can see how one would get Pepe from the latter. Maybe Jose is a shortened from of some earlier name that had the 'pe' in it? Like Josepe? Hmm.... Somebody out there know more?
I was also wondering about names like Marcel, with the diminutive Chelo. The 'ch' sound would make more sense if the name was pronounced Mar-chell-o, as in the Italian name Marcello, but obviously in Spanish it's not. Same for Ignacio/Nacho.
Elizabeth T.- Pepe Pancho? That's wonderful!
I always assumed Nacho was like an English language nn for Ignacio, like with roots in gringo mispronunciation. Just my wild guess.
I came across this interesting article from a woman who goes by her middle name. She talks about how confusing it is, even to herself!
http://joannebrokaw.com/ThisLife.php?action=fullnews&showcomments=1&id=19
Let me take a guess about Pepe. The origin of the name is transliterated as Yosuf or something similar. As the name travels from language to language, the pronunciation changes according to the sound laws of each language. So, in some languages (English, Italian) the initial consonant becomes an affricate (J/G). In German and Dutch the initial consonant has a Y sound. In French it is a zh sound, and so on. The middle consonant stays s (or becomes voiced as z). The third consonant is realized as either F or P (as in Guiseppe). In its current form the Spanish Jose has dropped the third consonant (there is an acute accent in its place), but almost certainly that third consonant was once there, and so the hypocoristic form is the reduplicated Pepe. Because the F and P sounds tend to alternate as in pedal and foot--by Grimm's law--and penny and pfennig by the High German sound shift, it is reasonable to expect Francisco to morph into Pancho.
Is anyone old enough to remember the Cisco Kid when the Kid and his sidelick would say to each other, "'ey, Cisco, 'ey, Pancho"? Two different nicknames for two guys both named Francisco, or Hollywood not having a clue?
Someone with a background in Spanish philology may well have a better explanation, but this is what it looks like to me with my general background in comparative Indo-European philology.
Thanks, Miriam! I was hoping you might step in. I'm fascinated by Indo-European philology, as an amateur, so this stuff really gets my pulse racing :). Luckily, my husband is too and we can go on for hours about the derivations of words and comparing them in different European languages (I have French, German, some Italian and Latin, and he has Spanish. Thank God I found him, as I know not everyone is as keen! I don't have your expertise, but certainly a lot of enthusiasm and a desire to learn more.
Tirzah, very amusing column, thanks! Despite all the angst, on one level she seems to enjoy the complications. Wonder why she hasn't become E. Joanne Brokaw, or just dropped the Elizabeth altogether if the constant confusion bothers her? She could even legally have them switched..
I've always been called by my middle name, which hasn't been much of a problem...Tons of people go by their second (or even third!) name. With me, interestingly, it's the rare variant spelling of the name which seems to throw people for a loop, more than its position...
Random name spotting: TCM showed Hitchcock's layered film noir "Shadow of a Doubt" for the umpteenth time. The niece who gradually learns her adored uncle is a sociopathic killer, is named after him-- "Charlie". Of course that is to underscore their shared identity, the almost "twin-ship" and telepathy between them.
How unusual, though, for a girl in the Forties to sport the name "Charlie". Her sister had a conventional name for the time, "Ann".
Although, now that I think of it, "Frankie" was used for girls in that period. I seem to recall Frankie as the protagonist in "Member of the Wedding".
Does anyone know what kinds of movies Marlene, Barbara, Ronald, Gary, etc. were in? Were they in comedies? My knowledge of film history is pitiful. I do think it would be interesting to know if people chose the names of the stars from the fun upbeat movies rather than the gloomy ones. If that's the case, maybe we can predict which stars will have lots of namesakes running around.
Regarding Pepe - I found the following through a Google search. It cited Wikipedia as its source, so who knows how accurate this actually is... but I found it to be an interesting interpretation!
"Pepe is a nickname for any person called José, but is also often used with different connotations. Etymologically, it derives from the name of Saint Joseph, considered to be the reputed father of Jesus. The folk etymology for the name Pepe in Spanish for putative father is padre putativo, abbreviated to PP, and pronounced Pepe. Pepe is also nickname in Italy for Giuseppe (Joseph) by a phonetical derivation."
Found on: http://dictionary.sensagent.com/pepe/en-en/
"The folk etymology for the name Pepe in Spanish for putative father is padre putativo, abbreviated to PP, and pronounced Pepe."
A folk etymology is by definition a false etymology, but one which is widely believed because somehow it seems to make sense. One form of folk etymology is analysis of a word as if it were an acronym. Perhaps the best known English example of this is 'posh' which has been widely etymologized as 'port out, starboard home,' referring to the notion that rich people sailing from Britain to India would book a portside cabin when they were India-bound and a starboard cabin going back to England. Supposedly these cabins were more expensive because going and coming they provided the most shelter from the sun. This acronymic etymology of 'posh' is, well, nonsense. Another such bit of nonsense is the etymologizing of 'golf' as Gentlemen Only Ladies Forbidden. Certain four- letter words also have folk etymologies as acronyms. (I won't go into detail lest the details get caught in some computer filters.) Thus, the derivation of Pepe from PP, standing for padre putativo, is correctly labeled as a folk etymology, meaning that it is cited and believed, but is nonetheless false.
^also the P nn for Joseph made it's way into Slovenian, my relative Teta Pepa = Aunt Josephine. Sorry, I don't know the Slovenian form of Josephine. She and I were never contemporaries.
Miriam- Thank you, as soon as you said LaGuardia I remembered! That's quite a name Fiorello LaGuardia:) Also, where does the word posh actually come from? Now I'm really curious...
zoerhenne- You're welcome. I'll be very interested to see what trends you note. I think decades is a perfectly reasonable way to organize a lot of data like this.
Valerie- So glad, I couldn't wait to share them. Btw I really like Fiorina, it's so pretty!
Eo It has taken off in that it is in the top 100, it was 42 last year, but it is not everywhere at the moment. I personally don't know any baby Isaacs, and so Im not sure if its more of a London thing, or if they'll be hundreds when he hits school.
I guess Ill just have to look out, but its worrying me that it was one of only three new entries for boys last year.
Elizabeth T.-- It depends. The "Golden Age" stars you mention acted in all kinds of vehicles. Barbara Stanwyck, Gary Cooper, Ronald Colman were very adroit in comedy, even the madcap category known as "screwball comedy", but could also wow audiences in the darkest of film noirs, like Stanwyck in "Double Indemnity"...
So my guess would be that the type of movie each appeared in would be less decisive than other factors?
I think people chose names based on the star's perceived personas, but also because the names were, in some cases, novel or exotic and seemed "glamorous", i.e.-- "Myrna" (Loy), "Rory" (Calhoun), "Marlene" (Dietrich), "Carmen" (Miranda), "Dana" Andrews (he was decidedly male, by the way), "Carole" Lombard, etc.
I know exactly how you feel, ET. It is such a great name though, isn't it! Like you say, it will be good to keep your eye on it. Like you, I'm hoping it doesn't go "ballistic" in Britain...
@Miriam, thanks so much for the folk etymology of posh. My daughter was watching Chitty Chitty Bang Bang just this morning, and in the song "Posh!" I could never quite get what Grandpa was saying, but it's "port out, starboard home." Love knowing this!
Jenny L3igh--
The etymology of 'posh' is a bit murky. One likely source is the Romany word 'posh' which means coin, something of which posh folk generally have plenty. A fair number of Romany words have worked their way into British slang and from thence often to American and other forms of English. Examples include 'shiv' knife, 'chav' a derogatory UK term referring to a certain type of working class youth (chav also has a folk etymology 'Council Housed And Violent'), and 'narc' undercover cop/informant (narc is NOT derived from narcotics--it is Romany for 'nose,' referring in this case to those who stick their noses in where they are not wanted).
Amy3--
Chitty Chitty Bang Bang is well-known for popularizing the folk etymology for 'posh'.
Miriam, how fascinating!
Thank you all for your input on our Sylvie versus Fiona dilemma. It seems like most people on this board are leaning toward Sylvie, as I think we are, as well. However, we will likely meet her and get a feel for who she is before settling on a final name.
I hope this isn't monopolizing this board too much, but I threw out a middle name that DH liked today and I wanted to see what all of you experts think. It goes well with either, I think, but better with Sylvie/Sylvia: Elise.
What do you think?
Sylvia Elise or Fiona Elise
versus
Syvia Grace or Fiona Grace
Reminder - our last name is Br--oo---oh (2 syllables).
I do like the familial connection with Grace (and there isn't one at all with Elise), but the popularity/ "throw away-ness" of the name does bug me a bit.
Philippa-Love the name Elise on its own. Prefer the Elyse sp tho. Sylvie/Sylvia Elise only presents one problem for me-the slurring of the syllables. You really have to concentrate to say the E as an EE sound rather than an "eh" sound. Of course its even more pronounced using Sylvie rather than Sylvia. I really don't think you can go wrong with Grace though even with the overuse of it. What did your dh think of some of the others we've all thrown out there?
Sylvia Colette
Sylvia Monique
Sylvia Justine
Sylvia Bianca, etc.
Love the book I'm reading-Nora Roberts "Blood Brothers" if anyone might be into supernatural mixed with light romance, intrigue, suspense, mystery and all. It's the first in a trilogy. Anyway, just thought I'd throw out the names of the 6 main characters. Fox, Gage and Cal short for Caleb for the boys. Girls are Layla, Cybil, and Quinn.
I love Nora Roberts' books, especially her trilogies. The Fox name is a good one; his parents are hippie-types. He is a fox and a lawyer. Nora picks great names. I love her main character from the J.D. Robb books- Eve Dallas.
Phillipa -- I think Elise is a beautiful name, but I do feel like Grace flows a little better in my opinion in the middle name slot. I guess there is a reason that some names become so popular as middle names, they just go well with many different names. For instance, in looking at our girls names I just find that neither Linda or Mary sound very well to me as a middle name. Any time I try Mary in that slot it becomes Marie to make an smoother transition to last name.
@Philippa, I still prefer Grace as the mn. Elise is a beautiful name (in fact, it's my niece's mn), but Grace flows better. Not that you'd be saying fn-mn together all that often, but it is more difficult to say Sylvia Elise or Fiona Elise than Sylvia Grace or Fiona Grace.
Philippa- I agree with the above posters, but if you do really like Elise, I think Fiona Elise is easier to say. Lovely names all around though! I don't think you can go wrong really.
Heard Bralen (sp?) as a 4 wk old boy's name on NPR today. At first I was thinking Bralynn, but I realized it's probably not spelled that way on a boy. Nms at all.
What about the name Elaine instead of Elise? Similar cadence, but avoids the slurring of ssss between the two names.
Elaine has been appealing to me more and more as a middle name option--it seems to flow with a lot of first name choices. It's definitely not a popular pick! I think in 20-30 years Elaine could be poised to make a big comeback, along with other boomer era names. Let's see, Barbara? Ellen? Robin? Joan? What other boomer names could my future grandchildren (I'm 28, btw) possibly possess?
Up and coming (in 20 years) boomer names: Sandy, Carol, Barry, Gary
I've never read Nora Roberts. Doesn't she publish under another name as well? Are her naming choices as good under the second name? How fascinating it would be if they aren't!
The British author Kate Atkinson chooses wonderful names for her characters. She's definitely an NE.
I am still liking the Grace better than Elise. I like the name Elise quite well but the flow and familial connection are too strong for me to overlook. jmho
Yes Kim, that's the one. His sister is Sage. He was so named because his mom saw a fox running through the woods when she was in labor. His sister because mom smelled Sage. Now normally I'm not a fan of these types of names, but in this case it works. He and his friends have the same beginnig initials as that of three friends who lived in the town during colonial times-Fletcher, Gideon, and Caleb.
Miriam - Is snafu folk etymology? Or is it really the acronym it's said to be?
Is snafu one of the military ones? I can't remember what it stands for, but many of the military ones are actually acronyms and not always nice ones.
I heard it was military. I think the polite way to say it is "situation normal, all fouled up".
@ Elizabeth T.
Nora Roberts also publishes her mystery novels under the pseudonym J.D. Robb.
Haven't read any, so I can't comment on the savviness of name choices, however.
Hijacking alert:
my husband and I have just got the news that we are expecting our 1st! While we have some favourites picked out for first names, I'd love to hear any suggestions.
We have a hyphenated surname (German, one-syllable - Scottish, Mc + one-syllable). We've both spent a lot of time in Belfast, and the wee one will be born in Newfoundland, so interesting Scottish and Irish choices are encouraged! I definitely fall on the traditional spelling side of the fence, but I suppose that's because I'm used to the Gaelic pronunciations ;p
Due date is November, so feel free to take your time. Thanks!
Yes, snafu is an acronym, derived as you think it's derived. These days there are many real acronyms, most stemming from government/military contexts. Here is an article on the acronym is present-day English:
http://www.worldwidewords.org/articles/asye.htm
Since many here are not just "namies," but out and out "wordies," let me call your attention to the whole http://www.worldwidewords.org website which is chockful of interesting observations on the English language. Mr. Quinion puts out a weekly newsletter to which you can subscribe. I find it both entertaining and informative. Occasionally I send him a comment on some item in the newsletter, and he always responds and generally publishes my comments (and those of others, of course).
BTW here is the publisher's blurb for Mr. Quinion's book which deals (among other topics) with the origin of 'posh.' You can see that the American title features Americanisms, while the British folk etymology "Port Out, Starboard Home" is the title for the rest of the world.
"One book, two titles. It’s called Port Out, Starboard Home everywhere but in the US, where its title is Ballyhoo, Buckaroo, and Spuds.
"It is published in paperback by Penguin in the UK and in paperback from HarperCollins in the USA.
"The cat’s pajamas, the bee’s knees, and the whole nine yards rolled into one, this true feast for word lovers skewers commonly accepted word-origin myths and etymological folk tales. Can it really be true that golf stands for “Gentlemen Only, Ladies Forbidden”? Did the term computer bug really derive from an errant moth shorting out a computer? Did the kangaroo really get its name through a misunderstanding between explorers and natives? Did OK really derive from the bad spelling of a US president? The real story of the origin and evolution of a word or phrase is often much stranger than the commonly accepted one. The expressions that Michael Quinion reviews range throughout the English-speaking world, from cater-cornered to dinkum and from wet one’s whistle to happy as a clam. From the bawdy to the sublime, explanations and delightful asides truly prove that the proof is in the pudding. If you ever wondered about why we utter such oddities as raining cats and dogs, I could care less or twenty-three skidoo, this one’s for you. It’s a treasure trove of fiction and fact for anyone interested in language."
Thanks Miriam! Sounds like a great book. I got some third rate book that tries to do the same thing, but it was really disappointing. I'll have to check that one out.
Congrats IrishPoliticsPhd! I don't know if I'm the best to help you, so I'll just send my good wishes!
my favorite boomer names: Karen, Nancy, Linda
re: Namie: I was so excited to see you use this term, Miriam, because my husband just suggested it today as a term for what we should call ourselves. Well, first he suggested Namers (to rhyme with Gamers). However, I told him that we were already NEs.
@Miriam, the book sounds great. Thanks for the info. I also like namies. Maybe NE is the formal name and namie is the nn. :)
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Adam Brown
Baby Furniture
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