The Baby Name Wizard

Oh PunkPrincessPhD, I really feel for you. I had a similar experience just a couple days ago with my husband (though we are not planning on having kids for another 2-3 years). He had already rejected my previous girl name choice, Liesl, because "it rhymes with weasel." But at the time, he had said I could use it for a middle name. So, with that out, I moved to my next choice: Amalia nn Molly. I didn't tell him for maybe a year, but I figured, how can he possibly object? It doesn't rhyme with anything offensive that I can think of, it's pretty and feminine, doesn't sound like a stripper name, has a cute nickname, isn't made-up, even is a family name a few generations back on my family tree... I could go on. I became really attached and starting imagining my little family with my little brown-pigtailed Amalia.

Then a few days ago I revealed it to him... and... he doesn't like it because, in high school he knew a girl named Amalia and she was "ugly and annoying." So the name is dead to him. I was really angry. Why does it matter? He'll get used to it and he'll forget about that girl, who he didn't even know very well and hasn't seen in years. We won't even be calling our daughter Amalia on a daily basis - she would be Molly. He has no objection based on sound... he thinks Amelia is fine... it's really just this one association. I was really angry that fate would have it that this girl was named Amalia, when Amalia is so uncommon (hasn't been in the top 1000 since the 1930s). When I tried to argue the point with him he got mad and said that he doesn't understand why I'm being difficult about it, he's not picky with names, he'll give me complete freedom to choose as long as it's not a name that he "doesn't like."

ARGH.

I am now trying to distance myself from the issue, and separate my mental picture of my future family from that one name. I think time will heal the wounds and allow me to develop a new mental picture with husband-approved names attached (luckily he left me a handful out of my top ten, though not my top five - he won't come up with his own suggestions, just wants to veto). It's got to be really rough when this happens close to the birth though, when you don't have time to realign your mental image.

EVie, I've had similar experiences as you, so I've learned to bring up a name earlier rather than later to my husband. Recently I started really liking Gordon as a boys name, thinking nn Gordie cute but Gordon sophisticated and a settled boys name but not common. As soon as I started picturing Gordon in my head, I knew it was time to check it with my hubby, and after first telling him that I really like this name and my reasons I presented the name "Gordon". Since I've already told him I was attached, he let me down easily, but quite firmly.

PPP-- I do feel for you. I know you'll find the right name that both of you can share and love. Have hope, (but feel free to vent your frustrations here!)

PPP- I don't know enough about Irish names to advise, but I think as other posters suggested, there have to be other names out there that appeal to both you and your husband. Perhaps if you can find a "common" nickname for a more distinctively Irish first name, your husband would be on board? Best of luck.

Completely off topic, and I think we may have discussed this a few threads ago, but the Real World, always a name treasure trove, premiered last nights. The naming highlights:

Ayiiia (I think that's the spelling, might be an H at the end. She explained that it was pronounced like Aaliyaah without the l. So its Eye-eee-yah). Anyone encountered this before??

Bronne-- He explains its pronounced "like the paper towel." This is interesting to me because a) to get the desired pronunciation I would think it would be spelled Bronney or Bronnie, and b) I am one of those east coasters who pronounces the paper towel Br-awww-nee not Br-onn-ee.)

Jonna- Pronounced Jah-nay. Totally didn't expect that from the spelling.

I had never seen any of these names IRL before

Aybee, oh my goodness, where do they find these people? Ayiiia is especially stunning--sounds like the noise you make while doing a karate chop, lol.

EVie--sorry to hear about your plight, as well! I think Amalia is wonderful, for whatever that's worth. My DH had a similar aversion to one of my early top picks, Holly. Good luck finding a compromise.

knp - I think that's really good advice for all NEs - clear it with the spouse before you let yourself get attached to a name. Even if your spouse is not an NE and doesn't like talking about names... it will save you future angst.

hyz - thanks for that, I know Amalia has always gone over well when people have mentioned it on this board.

I agree about checking in with the spouse early on. I just did that again recently to make sure. My husband may change his mind later, but as of now he doesn't strongly object to my choices, although he did joke about my winning Simon through a war of attrition.

Lorien - I think hyz said it already but Hye and Kye would be like "hyay" and "kyay" or "gyay", and the h is sometimes soft or almost silent sounding. I like the 'Tae' names, like Tae-won..

Mirnada - I like Annika in the playful way you were talking about. For the same sound as Olivia, what about Elizabeth, Aurelia, Anemone, Penelope, Veronica, Virginia, or Cecelia? Sabine in German is pronounced sah-bee-nuh, and I think it would be attractive and distinct. Pascale is nice too and it might even sound less pretentious than some of the very (pretty!) romantic names thrown around a lot here. It could be a really cool middle name as well if you can't get fully used to it.

PPP: I feel for your sense of sadness about "losing" your favorite name, or maybe even the sort of name you like. But, since it's his child, too, you really don't want to force your husband to choose something he hates. And it sounds like he really doesn't want anything that looks too foreign in spelling (or at least too Gaelic, which is particularly difficult for English speakers, since they can't sound it out). So you're going to have to compromise. And, as a person who much prefers classic names from one's own ethnicity, I completely understand where your husband is coming from. I wasn't even comfortable with Liam, because it seemed too, well, artificial to me, like I was claiming a heritage that was barely mine. I'm sorry, I don't know your situation entirely - is your husband Irish? Or just you? It's a lot to expect to choose a strongly ethnic name for a child who has only one parent from that ethnicity, if that's the case.

So, ultimately, I think hyz has it right. Start offering him names that are traditionally Irish but 1) have fairly intuitive pronunciations for an English speaker and 2) have cute, traditionally Anglo nicknames. When you come to associate the name with your own adorable baby, I'm sure even your second or third level choice will sound perfect. Of course, that doesn't mean you need to choose something you loathe, any more than he does. It does mean you have to stay open-minded, live with some possibilities that don't "feel" right at first until, perhaps, one of them does, and so on.

My dh did not like plenty of names that I did, and somehow we managed to successfully name 3 children. I think that you have to remember that once a baby is born, the baby becomes the name. For instance, my own dd is named Campbell - never do I think about soup when I hear that name - just her. Kind of a silly example (soup), but you get my drift.

Evie - Also, what about skipping Amalia and just going straight for Molly - nn you like without the negative association for your dh

PPP-What does he think of Aislin/Aislynn or Aileen? I'm thinking you probably don't care for them as they aren't flowy enough. I'm curious specifically what he thinks.

Okay, I was going on a bit there. But I'm curious what other people think the line is between "acceptable" and "unacceptable" requirements for a name - things that people should be willing to let go, and things that a spouse should make every effort to accommodate. For me, personally, I can't imagine being upset if my husband refused to consider my top name choice, or even my top ten (he did object to about 6 of my top ten, and I objected to about 8 of his). But can see holding onto some sorts of requirements that are flexible enough to allow one's spouse a lot of leeway, such as:

Origin of name (if one person has a strong preference for, say, Italian names, that should be respected)

Not above or below, depending, a certain level of popularity (not in top twenty or not below top two hundred)

Family name (as in, I want a name that has been used in my family in the past three or four generations, not one particular name)

I'm sure there are others, like not more than three syllables, or not a noun, so something like that.

Some issues are obviously harder, like someone who wants an androgynous name for a girl with someone who opposes all androgynous names. But most things seem to be on a scale, so that the range of options remains - Italian, but not necessarily VERY Italian; a family name, but not so-and-so the Fourth. Did many people here get really attached to a particular name, or a very particular style of name, that their spouses wouldn't go for? I don't mean just really liking a name, I mean feeling like that was THE name, and mourning its loss. And if so, did you feel that your spouse was being unreasonable? Evie, you seemed to - and it's true that associations can be particularly frustrating, because they seem so random and meaningless to you, but they can be so powerful to the person who holds them. (My father vetoed Maura for me, because of a girl who used to pick on him when he was small, and my mother still sighs over that). Or did people instead have ideas about the type of name, and was that easier to negotiate?

First of all, thanks to all of you for the empathy and understanding. I know it seems stupid to freak out about it - "it's just a name" - but bear in mind that a) I'm pregnant and hormonal and b) this came out of nowhere, when I thought we had agreed on the name(s).

As for my husband, the issue is not with the Irishness of the name. In fact, he would be happy to go with an Irish name, as long as it meet his criteria. The other Irish names he has suggested are just as complicated in spelling and pronunciation, and only one has an "anglicizable" nickname - the other isn't nicknameable at all. So part of the confusion is that he's not consistent with his criteria - I'd never heard him express any fondness for Catherine, Gwendolyn, et al until last night!

We both have a shared history in Ireland - yes, it is my research area and my passion, but it is also a big part of our life together, and i know as a place it is something he feels very connected to.

I can't help but feel that a big part of the objection is that it is "my" name - something that has significantly more meaning to me than to him. Of course, this is why I've been clinging on to it so tightly. However, maybe that's the issue from his perspective. He hasn't really expressed it that way, but...

In any case, we've got 4 months, give or take. I'll be sure to post a list of the new front-runners once we can agree on them.

Thanks again.

PPP--I was wondering if part of his objection arose from basically cold feet. That is, as the birth is getting nearer, and the baby seems more "real" (after the sex sonogram, etc.), that he thought he was ok with a very Irish name for your sake, but now he's just not sure he wants to actually bestow such an unusual name on his daughter. That happened to me, a bit--before I was pregnant, and early on, I was considering a lot more "adventurous" names, but as it came down to the wire, I got nervous that they could be too much for a kid, and be a burden, and that she might hate it. So then I became interested in relatively "safer" choices. I actually felt *comforted* when the names we were considering were around the 200s in SSA popularity and (a little) on the rise--whereas before I had been all about picking some completely forgotton/undiscovered old gem.

Anyway, if that's the case, I can very much see where he's coming from, as Aoibheann looks a little mind boggling to the average (or even above-average) Anglo viewer--and while it's interesting and beautiful and has a lot of meaning for you, your DH may be concerned about your daughter having to live with it every day, forever. Catherine and Elizabeth certainly seem safe by comparison.

pyewacket--to answer your question, I can see it from both sides. On one hand, I am perfectly capable of getting extremely attached to a name, and concocting elaborate images in my head of my child being named that, and thinking of all its many, many wonderful qualities and feeling that all other names really pale in comparison to that one, shining, perfect name. And then DH says, "Seriously? That name's an abomination," and I feel crushed. If he really feels that way, though, then it takes some of the luster off the name--I can't be thrilled about a name when the child's own father actually hates it. It's like how you can't fully enjoy an outing when you dragged someone there with you and you know they're sitting there hating every second--kinda sucks the joy out of things. So when he finally offers (after weeks of me pitching the name to him like a desperate salesman, and then me letting it go and moving on to other things), "fine, that name's not so bad, we can name her that," my response is "no, it's ruined now. nevermind." lol.

So, if that's the case, then I think the strategy you outlined is the most reasonable--each person can have relatively broad categories that get respected by the other, and each has veto power over detested names, and from there you just work to find compromise. Generally, compromise means that neither party is as happy as they would've been if they had made the decision alone, but it's better for your relationship, your family, and therefore ultimately the child you're naming. And that's something to be happy about. :)

I posted this at the very end of a previous thread, but I think it got lost in the surname discussion. Figured I'd try it one more time...

We've talked in the past about names for large families, and I recently came across an article about a woman who just gave birth to her 15th child. The kids range in age from newborn to 20, and the names (oldest to youngest) are:

Jessica
Chad
Dalton
Austin
Bailey
Gage
Kaylee
Emma
Harper
Rebekah
Trevor
Walker
Morgan
Laura
Sawyer

An interesting mix, no? I kind of like the fact that each kid has their own initial - quite different from the Duggars. Fortunately they have a few to go before they start running out of letters!

I had always wanted to use my mother's name, Judith, as a mn for a daughter (my mother passed away when I was a child), and I *thought* my husband was on board. I really thought we had agreed that no matter what the fn was, the mn would be Judith.

Then, seemingly out of nowhere, he said he couldn't stand the name. I was crushed. I'm glad I found out before I was pg as I'm sure I would have been devastated then.

In the end we chose a mn, Katherine, that allowed us to honor both my grandmother (Katherine) as well as his (Catherine nn Katie), and it works better with the fn we chose than Judith would have.

PPP (about discussing baby names)

[Please note, I mean this in the nicest possible way, I'm talking from a discussion-technique point of view, and I've selectively exaggerated to make my point clear. I'm not on a hubby-bashing spree.]

What I see is this:
You approach your hubby with a name you like - he responds with approval/disapproval. You approach him with another name - he approves/disapproves. And when that still doesn't work, he'll write you a short list of pre-approved names you can choose from.

What's wrong with this?
First, you don't seem to object to the self-appointed overrule position he is in. You should. You have as much (or little) right to veto whatever name he comes up with. (And I'm not saying combat veto'ing is a recommendable way of reaching an agreement, but perhaps your hubby needs to feel it in order to realise that?). Second, you seem to (reluctantly) accept you must pick one of the names on your hubby's OK-list. You don't. Unless you have specifically agreed to do it this way, he has once again assumed the self-appointed overrule position.

My point, in case that got lost, is that you and hubby have an equal say in this discussion. Don't accept anything less than that.

I would be willing to respect the dead parent/sibling rule: Meaning that, if either spouse has lost an immediate family member and would like to name the child after that person, the other spouse should probably respect that. (I've heard a few people discuss this before--here on this board? I can't remember.) Of course, this doesn't mean you have to give them the exact same name, and middle names are certainly a way to honor someone with a less-than-desirable name. If, as with your husband, Amy3, one or the other really hates the name itself, there are ways to modify the name while still retaining the namesake (and it seems like you two came up with a good compromise.) But generally, to my mind, a loss of that magnitude trumps feelings about style, etc.

I did not have sadness over my naming dilemnas but I think my dh did. (I had frustration because I am the most indecisive person EVER). We had talked of Samantha while dating. All of a sudden during my pregnancy, it didnt seem right. He offerred some classic names including Elizabeth. It's a nice name and all but I do not like any of the nn's it has and said I would only consider it for the mn spot. He relented and offered me some other choices. I wanted easy to say, a bit frilly, good meaning, and something that flowed well with LN. It starts with A so unfortunately none of those. I also preferred 3 syl. We both had veto power over former gf/bf names, kids we'd known with those names, and family names. It did get a bit nit-picky at times but we ended up with a list of 6 or so we chose from. I still think he longs for Samantha as a fantasy child though.

Qwen - another name idea for you: Gemma.
Or, how about you give your daughter a first name beginning with G and a middle name beginning with G - then the nickname Gigi seems particularly apt! I love Gloria Grace, but there are lots of G names that this could work with.

Re the discussion about how certain names are spelled - I know 2 women called Sabine, both of them born in France. They both say their name "sah-BEEN-uh", although the "uh" bit is quite subtle - it is not the same as if they were saying Sabina - "sah-BEEN-ah". All of their non-French friends pronounce Sabine "sah-been", but I have asked one Sabine about that and she said it is a close enough English approximation in her view, and that most non-French people say it that way. Same thing happens to my French friend Severine - non-French people say "Sev-reen" but she says it more like "Sev-er-een-uh". And of course she does that special "r" sound which I find impossible!!
I've never met anyone named Corinne but had assumed it would be pronounced "Kor-een". I can see now that it could have several pronunciations!
What about Camille? A friend of mine with a French mother pronounces it "Ka-mee" but I know an American with the same name who pronounces it "Ka-meel"!

Thanks to all for the input on Gigi's FN.

Unfortunately, a lot of the (perfectly beautiful) names suggested are ones that either DH or I have already vetoed (Gina, Bridget, Guilia, Ginetter, Geneveve, etc.) including Geneva, whoever suggested that is brilliant. It's a BEAUITUFL name and flows so nicely with our LN but my husband said "As in Convention? We're going to name our daughter after the international rules for humanitarian issues?"

I still really like Gienna and a few "not my styles" aren't really so bad as far as criticism goes. We'll see what happens. We can't find a MN that we agree on for it anyway so it might just end up being thrown out by default. :)

Leafy -

The double G combo was considered briefly and then discarded. It is clever, but we have the added (self-made) complication of the fact that the MN has to be a literary name.

That was a condition we made in the beginning for both our girl options, one family reference and one literary reference (for boys it was one family reference and one reference to a man one of us considers a 'hero'). It doesn't matter what order they're in but since we've chosen to go with Gigi as a first name the literary refernce has to be the MN.

When I actually type that out it sounds a little weird but it's what we picked.

Qwen--glad you like Geneva! That was me--if it makes any difference to your husband, Geneva was in the SSA's top 1000 baby names every single year from 1880 to 1995, and was actually reasonably popular (in the 100s) from the 1890s to the 1940s. I knew a girl by this name in college (so she's 30ish now), and it seemed very cool, but not too "out there". Definitely a place-name, but it supposedly comes from the same root as Jennifer--i.e. Juniper. And there are worse things to be associated with than a gorgeous Swiss city and a humanitarian convention. :)

I can't remember now if you'd considered Ginevra--same idea, but less convention association, lol. It's the Italian version of Geneva, and you seem to be leaning Italian, so maybe it's a good fit? There's also Genève, or, according to Wikipedia, Genevra (Romansh). Just a thought.

I've been wondering about Ginevra. It gets a passing reference in the Harry Potter books as Ginny Weasley's full name and I've been wondering if we'll see it get a kick in the next few years because of that. It's really lovely and a nice counterpart to the more popular Gianna.

That's so funny Qwen, I actually wrote Geneva for you then deleted it! Tell your hubby that the name is derived from the Old French genevre (juniper berry), and there is a beautiful city and lake in Switzerland called Geneva - where the Geneva Convention is held, hence its name. I find it really funny that he would object to naming his daughter after that, but would be happy to name her a made-up word that means nothing! I hope that doesn't sound offensive - I totally don't mean it to be. Just interesting how we all have a different way of looking at the names we give our children. My husband has a thing about names that sound like other words - eg he ruled out Ophelia simply because he says that it reminds him of the word "necrophilia"!!! Men!!

Could you not find a literary reference name beginning with G?

PPPhd - I'm so, so sorry to hear about your frustrating and disappointing name discussion with your husband. I know how hard it is when you have your heart and soul set on a name. I'm glad to hear that at least he hasn't vetoed all Irish names - that is something. You can still have an Irish name that's important to you, but one that he feels a connection to as well. That is a good thing, really. It is hard to let names go, but if your husband really can not even consider them, then it's best to move on and find some other names that you love and hope that one of them also strikes a chord with him. I never thought I'd find names I liked as much as my original Top 5 (all of which my husband vetoed), but now I actually think Theodora and Delilah are even BETTER for us than any I originally had!! And they have the added joy of both of us loving them and being able to imagine our little girl with those names. I am sure that you will find names like that too, but for now I can imagine it is very disheartening.
Are you both still keen on Saoirse? I recall you saying it was #3 on your list.

Leafy-Wow, when you just posted to PPP I was reading and you said Theodora Delilah in such succession that it made me think. I know you had family names in for mn spot but Theodora Delilah has got a nice ring to it and fluffs out Leaf a whole lot!

Qwen-Remind me of what the LN starts with? Maybe we can help find a mn for Gienna which btw is growing on me. It still "looks weird" when I type it though. Might you go with Jienna or would that get terribly/endlessly mixed up for Jenna? Does Giordanna sound too made up-it sounds nice to me? I seem to have a surname in the back of my head that sounds out Gee-or-dah-na.

Qwen - Gienna is nms but I think it sounds pretty and I can imagine a little girl or a woman with that name. Plus you both like it and chose it so that's a plus! I don't think it's too close to other names, many names are very similar in sound/spelling and if it doesn't bother you then go for it.

PPP - I so feel for you. You seemed all set on more than one occasion and then it all went downhill. Other than the suggestions you've already been given (which are good), I was thinking of printing out a long list of Irish baby names (good collection on Behind the Name as a start) and each going through and crossing out the ones you don't like and seeing where you get to. Also maybe agree on 1 Irish name and 1 classic name - ala his newest suggestions of 'Elizabeth' et al. (although not necessarily just those names, you get input too) and then decide on the order for flow and call her whichever you think fits best when she comes, or use both, or give her options for when she gets older. Suggestion #3, maybe have a few 'mutually agreed' names of different styles and feels (can still be largely Irish based) and see what fits when she comes. Don't feel you just get to choose from his new pre-approved list. That's not fair either. I do think you need a new strategy though, hope some suggestions by people here help.

PPP-I like what Chimu said in that you make a gigantic list and weed through it (I LOVE LISTS!). But that may not work in the long run. May I suggest you BOTH step out of your comfort zone-You make a long list of "classic" names that you "wouldn't mind". And dh makes a list of "Irish" names that he wouldn't mind. Then you switch and look at each others list. Don't eliminate things, but rather put a star/check next to names that "are nice/not too bad/I could maybe live with these/etc." That way you are creating a combined list-not destroying anothers "great ideas". Then set it aside for a bit. After a few weeks or so, pull it out and then weed. Best of luck!

Georgiana: This is going to be long, but hopefully interesting due to recent discussion. The following is from the biography of Georgiana, Duchess of Devonshire (of recent movie fame)

The Cavendish family "pronounced her name 'George-aina' (as in rain-a), as opposed to George-i-ahna. In her eagerness to be accepted Georgiana adopted all their mannerisms, vigorously apply the Cavendish drawl and insisting that everyone should call her 'George-ayna.' This was how she became known for the rest of her life."

PPP - Are you still able to use one of your original choices as the middle name?

sarah smile - I noticed your post the first time and It's been making me mull over what 15 names I would choose! (realized I like C, F, S, and M names)

Qwen - I know a lot of people don't like made up names around here, and there are tons of great G names, and I also like the suggestion of a G first and middle combined, but Gienna is a nice sound and a perfectly good name, (not to mention plausibly invented as opposed to grotesquely made up!) and it wont have any history as a name until people start using it (not to mention some people value a parent's invention for their child), so if you both love it (as opposed to settling on it as a mish mash of names you actually like), then you should use it!

@sarah smile--I am one of 5, and my parents deliberately gave us all different initials (both first and middle names). It makes life a lot easier in a big family when you can just initial things! Although now that 3 of us are married or soon to be so, my mom is frustrated with us since we keep picking people with the same initial! (My dh has the same initial as my brother and my sister's fiance, so now there are 3, poor mom!)

I knew a family of 9 kids who all had the same first and middle initial, A--- J----, which I felt would get confusing. They had one of the first Amelias I ever met though, she'd be about 20 now.

Does anyone know the Duggars' middle names? Are they all the same initials?

Quen - I know two "Gigi"s, one is 7 and one is 35. Both of them are Gabriella.

Mirnada - I was thinking about the Fontenot and how nicely it goes with an embedded "o" first name. Has any suggested Leona? I think that is very pretty especially with the LN.

Hmmmmmm "Theodora Delilah" - both of them ending with an "ah" sound makes it a bit much for me, sorry! But thanks for the suggestion :)

Sarah Smile - I think that those parents made a good choice going for different first letters for each of their children's names. My sister and I both have first names starting with J, and whenever I see her name written down (on her mail, on her office door, etc) I always feel weird, like that is MY name! Once the bank actually gave me a print-out of HER bank account statement by mistake - ok we do have a very unusual surname, but our first names are very different! The teller admitted he just saw the initial J and thought it must be me!

I know a family of 3 boys named Jarrod, Jason and Jeremy. They are such similar names that I can never remember which one is which!!!

PPP - I really feel for you - I still argue with my husband about what we would have called our daughter had she been a boy, and she is nearly 13! (He says Philip after his dad, I say no way on earth would I have had a child called Philip, He says no way would he have allowed me to veto it etc etc. Annoyingly the child in question - Phoebe - says she thinks Philip is much better than anything I suggestd at the time - Alexander was my pick - and Felipe, my compromise option would have been a complete embarrassment. She may be right)

But I also feel for your husband in that I do think the name you picked is a particularly difficult Irish name - I have absolutely no idea how it is pronounced - although I am sure you have many reasons fo loving it.
What I wonder is rather than the my list v your list way of deciding, you think about basic principles first. How does he think names should be chosen? To honour family? To celebrate a culture? Maybe if you agree basic principles then you can come up with some new joint ideas - so perhaps an Irish name that honours a relative of his. Then you share ownership of the idea.
For example - maybe he says he'd like to honour his grandmother Sara. You suggest the Irish name Sorcha to celebrate your love of Ireland. No one gets ther first choice but you find a name with meaning for you both and believe me it will grow on you once it is attached to a real child.
And remember they can have as many middle names as you want. So at the end of the day you can have compromise first name, your pick, his pick, surname.
Having said all that I still don;t think we'd ever have sorted out the Philip conundrum. Thank goodness she was a girl!

Qwen: While I usually don't prefer alternate spellings of names, I would have no problem with Gienna. It seems like a "natural" variation--as in people are familiar with both Gianna and Vienna, so it is not a really big leap. And,you are keeping it phonetic. It is not as if you are going to say, "It's Gienna, pronounced Gi-AHN-a". (I've heard variations on "It's Katline, pronounced Kate-lynn," which absolutely drives me crazy.)

So, while I generally do not prefer "made-up" names, this one seems "made-up" in the same sense that Polly was probably "made-up" as a derivative of Molly. If people could do that in the past, I see no reason why it should be "forbidden" now. Somebody's got to come up with new, beautiful, phonetically correct names; otherwise, the obsessions of NEs might stagnate. :-)

Lorien--I agree--that's about the most annoying thing for me--the invented name with totally anti-phonetic pronunciation. I have a friend of a friend who named her daughter "Senna", and she somehow thought that spelling should yield the pronunciation of "SEE-na". Said mother was much perplexed and dismayed when everyone kept calling her daughter "Sen-ah". Senna is a fine enough name--a botanical, and has a nice sound despite my first association with it being its medicinal use as a laxative. Senna pronounced "SEE-na", however? No. I have to think these sorts of things must be the fruits of a failed educational system....

oh my, hyz, i absolutely agree. who was it on here who had a daughter named minna and people insisted on calling her "mee-na"? so bizarre...

and i also agree with those who've already said it: gienna as an invented name is much more natural than many others. it isn't my style, but i don't dislike it and it's a pretty sound.

My reaction to Gienna is the same reaction I had when I first heard Brayden (about eight years ago). I thought, "That sounds like a name--it ought to be a name. I like it!" My enthusiasm for Brayden faded quickly as it exploded in popularity, but if Brayden were the only one of the Aidan imitators, I'd still probably like it. I can't see Gienna taking off in quite the same way, but it has all the elements of a popular name.

hyz: I have to agree with the last sentence, as someone who teaches English at the college level. When I'm assigned freshman classes, I sometimes come home grumbling to DH that I've ended up having to teach high school and college English all in the same class. My students' high school experience runs the gamut, and some come right out and tell me that "I didn't learn anything about writing in high school." As far as whose fault that is, I'm sure there is plenty of blame to be passed around among the school systems, teachers, parents and the students themselves. I'm not excusing college freshman comp teachers either.

Funny story: When my brother was in college freshman comp, the class was peer reviewing papers. He innocently pointed out that the young lady whose paper he was reading must have made a typo on the title page when she spelled her name. Nope, it was the real spelling. Foot in mouth for my brother...or for her parents.

PPP, I don't have any advice but I am incredibly curious - how DO you pronounce the name? My best guess is something like Avon?

Going back to an earlier discussion in this thread, I agree with Laneyo - I think we tend to think of UK naming trends as being ahead of NA because, for a lot of people on this board, those names are more our style. But as a Canadian in England, I was absolutely shocked when my trendy London coworker named his baby Jessica three years ago, and even more so when I discovered it is a top 5 name here. For me, that would be the name of one of MY friends! Amy, Erin, Shannon, Holly, Courtney and Bethany are other Top 90 names here which are quite 70s/80s/90s to me. So I don't think the UK is necessarily "ahead" - just different.

Everyone is so helpful, I love reading/talking with people who really seem to get how important names are.

One name I really like is Arwen. I thought about it for a few days and ran it past DH. He looked at me like I was insane and said, like as in Lord Of The Rings? So he thinks I am practically the only person in the world who didn't immediately make that association. Needless to say, DH rejected it, even though he likes the name but doesn't want people to think of LOTR when hearing our daughter's name.

Any suggestions for a name similar to Arwen that doesn't have the LOTR association?

I think I need to take some of the advice on here for PPP and stop talking about names with my DH for a little while. I get so discouraged when I find a few names that I get attached to and then he just vetos them without really a second thought.

That said, I'm going to come up with a list of names that I like and that I know he doesn't hate but that may include names he's vetoed before. Maybe just giving him a break will be enough to agree on something. I'm getting anxious (due in September) but he is obviously not at that point yet.

My children's last name is P!ck3ns which is really hard to work with. I'm pretty much ruling out any first names that start with an E (due to first DD's name Elise) and first names that start with a P or T due to initials PP and TP. Also, flower/nature names don't seem to work due to it sounding like Pickings. (Can you really see a Violet Pickings?) We are also a very nickname-y family, so whatever we choose has to have good nickname possibilities. For example, Elise goes by Lise and Lisey quite often and may go by Ellie when she is older if it fits.

So given all of that, here are the names on my list so far for first or middle names:
* Arwen (but DH strongly vetos due to LOTR, so I need suggestions on similar alternatives)
* Vivienne (nn Vi, Viv, Vivi)
* Maeve (nn May, Eve, Evie)
* Cora (nn Cori, but DH really doesn't like it)
* Adelaide/Adeline/Adele/Adela (but I can't use the Addy nickname due to a pet named Abb3y, so probably won't go with any of these names, and DH doesn't like them but said he may like Adela the most out of these)
* Jolie (but DH vetoes everything with a Jo- beginning for some reason)
* Violet (but I really don't think it works as a first name due to our children's last name because it is a flower)
* Cynthia (I'm really drawn to this name, as suggested by someone previously, but *hate* the nicknames)

Other names that I love but we won't use as a first name, could be middle names though: Aubrey, Aurelia, Claire, Eden, Emme/Emmeline/Emmelina, Evangeline/Evangelina, Julia/Juliet, Lauren, Lila/Lilah, Lorraine, Louise/Louisa, Matilda/Mathilda/Mathilde, Maura, Natalie/Natalia, Olivia, Serena.

Help!

Speaking of interesting pronunciations- my coworker just told me about an Elena pron EL-en-ah as opposed to el-LAY-nah. I can see this in the 'off with their heads' naming phenomenon coming from Helena. However, it just *looks* like el-LAY-nah to me even though I'll say Helena both ways.

Another interesting name I work with is Rene, a guy, pron. Raynee.

emilyrae--that's me! My daughter's first name is Minna, and I really and truly do not understand why the doctor's office and other random places insist on calling her Mee-na!! Dear lord. We had a big long thing over the spelling of her name before she was born, because the most "proper" transliteration from Korean would be Min-ah, or maybe Min-a, but my husband has a hyphen in his name and it's always caused him administrative problems, so he wanted no hyphen--sounds good to me. But just taking out the hyphen gives you Minah or Mina, which I think most people would say as MY-nah or MEE-na, so since getting the pronunciation right was more important to us than preserving the usual transliteration from Korean, we went with Minna (which I also think is prettier, incidentally). And we STILL get MEE-na! Argh! :rant off. lol

I think I'm coming around to Gienna a little bit, at least in regards to its "made-up" capacity. I think the "i" sound might become minimal in real life, making it end up sounding a little more like Genna, which is also pretty.

"I have to think these sorts of things must be the fruits of a failed educational system...." Love it.

Actually, the Minna pronunciation makes a little sense to me. For Russians, at least, Milla is pronounced "Mee-la", which I kind of like.

Pyewacket: Your suggestions of how to mediate name-choosing seems very balanced and reasonable, but I just don't think it's possible with someone who has strong personal name associations (which I have to confess I do...and combined with mild synesthesia, to boot). I can't think of Alice w/o thinking of the housekeeper in the Brady Bunch and again, Audrey is just a little too rich and waspy for me. There are even letters I like less (P and D, for instance), but those can be gotten around a little better...witness Delilah. My husband doesn't think the name one chooses is really that important. He thinks that the name ends up suiting the person and that it's kind of silly to labor over it much (I get endless good natured teasing for my NE blog). It's tougher when both people have strong associations with more names, and then I guess each person has to stretch out of their comfort zone.

I agree, Leona does sound really pretty with Fontenot. I also like that it means Lion (one of the reasons I like Ursula is the meaning). There is that Leona Helmsley thing...I'm assuming that wouldn't be a strong association for her generation, but I dunno...I'll run it by DH.

Question fitting in with husband vs. wife naming and vetoing:

Our last name is a different spelling of Koons. Hubby liked Susanna nn Susie, which I liked too but thought it might be a little too Susie Q-ish and weird as Susie Koons. Am I a hypocrite liking Lucy now? My explanation to him was that Susie has the ooh sound and the s has a z sound, whereas Lucy has an s sound. Am I being silly? Are the oohs too much in both cases or is Susie not too bad with Koons??

Jenmn,

"I get so discouraged when I find a few names that I get attached to and then he just vetos them without really a second thought."

Your case fits the pep-talk in #67 very well.

Perhaps the first thing you should discuss with hubby is *how* you are going to choose on a name. What is more important - to agree on a compromise (say his #4, your #3) or to each pick a winner (as first/middle or for different children)?

jenmn: What about Arden? It's close in sound to Arwen, but trades that LOTR reference for a more subtle Shakespearean one. (The Forest of Arden in As You Like It is a place of magical transformations; also it was Shakespeare's mother's family name). Plus, it's lovely and underused but still demonstrably a name.

Sidenote: I've only known one Arwen in real life (and she went to college with my parents). Her middle name? Evenstar. Yep. Her folks were serious about their Tolkien.

Mirnada, I get what you're saying about Milla -- if I saw a person's last name was, say, Jovovich as opposed to Smith (or whatever), I might be particularly inclined to guess that Milla was "MEE-la". It's not "anti-phonetic" as I was describing above--just recognizing that it might be a situation where you should apply foreign phonics. And I've considered that in our case--maybe seeing our daughter's Asian last name is contributing to people making weird guesses about pronunciation. Or at least, that's the most charitable explanation I can come up with. lol.