The Baby Name Wizard

jenmn-did you see my post for you on the previous thread? If not I can dig it up and post again.

Leafy-Youa are very welcome :)

Anne with an E-They are not all the same letter mn's for the Duggars. I'm sure you can google it.

sarah smile-I quite like the separation of inititals between children, except for maybe twins/other multiples. It depends in that case though how many (not 6 or 8) and how many OTHER children you have already.

UK trends-Does this mean the 70's names are coming back? Woohoo! Very much my style!!

14 kids to name: Randomly assigned gender just my first top 14 I could think of-
#1:Brian Patrick
#2:Conner Joseph
#3:Jessica Nicole
#4:Miranda Rochelle
#5:Kimberley Elizabeth
#6:Samantha Leslie
#7:Hailey Noelle
#8:Richard Mitchell
#9:Deirdre Elise
#10:Lauren Olivia
#11:Elliott Michael
#12:Valerie Kate
#13:Griffin James
#14:Zachary Alexander

lol, no, hyz, the rant is completely justified. i would have gone through the exact same process (wanting to have an intuitive spelling)and then been completely frustrated when i was foiled by ignorant receptionists!
i hope that at least most people get it right the first time, as i really do think it's a quite sensible spelling.

oh, and i think we've had the elena dicussion before... el-en-uh or eh-LAY-nuh. i have to admit that i fall with the former, though i can see what the latter is saying. however, to me eh-LAY-nuh is spelled "elaina."

jenmn,
i actually don't think violet p!ck3ns is bad (certainly doesn't have the connotations leaf does (no offense leafy!)). i can see what you're saying, but to my ear, it isn't an issue.

@circe--Arwen Evenstar? Wow! I really like the sound of Arden though! You could even go with Mary Arden, if you wanted to be Shakespeare all the way.

Which makes me think of an article I just read in some mag (Entertainment Weekly I think?) where they interviewed the actress Anne Hathaway, and then in a sidebar put "little known trivia fact--Anne Hathaway shares her name with the wife of Shakespeare!" It made me sad that that is a 'little known trivia' fact. Guess that harkens back to the "fruits of a failed educational system"? :)

But I have to agree that counter-intuitive pronunciations make me crazy. I know a 9 year old girl named "Kyla"--and just saw her name written for the first time recently--it's spelled Kylia. So thinking that maybe I'd been mispronouncing her name all along, I double-checked with her that it is spelled K-y-l-i-a. She said, "Yeah, that's why a lot of people call me Ky-lee-a when they first meet me, because it's spelled wrong. My mom meant to put an H on the end." I didn't really have the heart to tell her that the -i- and not the lack of -h- is the problem...

Guest #97: I agree with you. Lucy Koons is much better. For me the difference is Susie Koons has 3 's' sounds of any type as well as starting AND ending with the same type of sound. Susanna isn't as bad though. Lucy Koons doesn't have those problems.

anne with an e--hilarious story. kylia/kyla/kyliah, so amazing. what on earth? also, it's amusing to me that her mother "forgot" to put the h on the end of the name. how do you forget your preferred spelling when filling out crucial paperwork? i think i'd proofread it three times at least!

Anne with an E--lol--your "lack of -h-" comment made me chuckle. Sad. So, so sad.

emilyrae--thanks. Yeah, I'm not sure how else I'm supposed to get people to say "min-ah" other than Minna. Maybe a few extra "N"s would've helped? Minnnna? Throw in an H (or 2) for good measure? Mihnnna? Mihnnah? Sigh.

Re: Arden--I love the look of this name, and meaning, and connotations, so I want to love it in general--but does anyone else find it a little uncomfortable to say? For some reason I feel like the "Ard" gets stuck in my throat, and the whole thing comes off a little heavy, instead of flowing and floaty like Arwen (for instance). I think maybe I'm overthinking it--but this was an early frontrunner on my list that I reluctantly nixed because it sounded weird to me when I repeated it over and over in my head.

I have to agree with this: "el-en-uh or eh-LAY-nuh. i have to admit that i fall with the former, though i can see what the latter is saying. however, to me eh-LAY-nuh is spelled "elaina"."

And we get the receptionists calling the wrong name thing all.the.time. Instead of "Elise" they call "Elsie". Just about every time. It is funny because according to the SSA, Elise is much much more popular than Elsie. Makes me wonder if we should have spelled it Elyse instead. It is just something I have not had to deal with being a Jen/Jennifer, although I have had a few people recently ask how do I spell Jennifer. I was shocked!

We do pronounce my DD's middle name (Genevieve) the French way and not the typical American way, but given that it is a middle name, I don't worry about the pronunciation too much.

zoerhenne, yes, thank you for all the suggestions on one of the older threads. I thought a few had possibilities, but of course, DH vetoed them. And actually several are the names of close friends/family members children's. :)

Thanks for the feedback on Violet P!ck3ns not sounding too terrible. I'm not sure I could get it out of my head. DH of course isn't sure he would have thought of violet picking or violet pickings if I hadn't said anything first.

Arden is interesting, although it is the name of a city nearby. I'll have to play with it a bit.

I have to agree that Lucy Koons is a different sound (better to my ears) than Susie Koons.

hyz, I have to agree with your comment on Arden/Arwen. Arden sounds much more masculine to me (which isn't very appealing) while Arwen sounds much more lacy/feminine. Plus given the city name here, I'm not sure I could get past it.

While reading the last few hours of postings I recalled the great frustration I have had time and time again with some friends names - all with Laura/Lara names.

I do know some Lauras who pronouced their name in what I would call the traditional way (LORE-A). But then, there are the Lara's who seem to have one of three pronuncitations (LORE-A, LAIR-A, and LAR-A). Maybe I'm "spoiled" with Kim or maybe not a true NE at heart, but having these multiple pronuncitations that people are offended by really gets me frustrated.

Here I am upset with the idea of naming a boy David because ppl will interchangeably call him David and Dave and I want a more distinct way to discern which is appropriate - and there are ppl who purposely choose these alternate pronunications (or live in a grammar-free, alternate reality)!

I, too, feel particular about grammar. I attribute it to 8 years of Catholic-school and sentence diagramming. But now I'm wondering if it wouldn't have come out anyway. I'm wondering now if it isn't somehow tied to my fascination with names and naming. The strong grammar, or at least grammar-consciousness seems to be prevalent here.

Agreed! One of my biggest concerns in name choices is mispronunciation issues... I think it trumps popularity for me. I don't want mispronunciations to be frustrating to my future child, and selfishly I know how annoyed I'll be too as the namer.

I love grammar and pronuncation/spelling people. This board is always so refreshing... filled everyday with well-written, correctly spelled posts! Makes my heart fill with glee that such intelligent people also care about names so much!

Thanks for the Lucy vs. Susie assistance! I love Lucy but I'm still not 100% on it with the last name so we'll see. I feel like a short, abrupt name, like Koons (though it is spelled slightly more interestingly which helps me somehow) needs something more flowy, but I'm internally conflicted because I don't see a future daughter of ours being flowy and frilly, but cute and Lucyish.

Guest: Would you use Lucia, nn Lucy? Lucia comes off as spunky rather than frilly to me.

KimB-HA HA a grammar-free alternate reality, it's called Pennsylvania in my book! I can't stand the regional/dialect and incorrect grammar use that some around here find necessary. Ex. The laundry needs washed (where's the TO BE part) and "Would you like to come with"? (Come with whom?)

Guest: LOL this board is refreshing. I often have to correct my spelling in my posts because I have slipped into "internet speak".
I also agree that Lucy is a spunky name. Some others with spunk are Bridget, Kate, Sabrina, Nicole, Darcy, and Josie. Some of those have longer "formal" names that she could be named and then called by nn i.e. Lucille/Lucy, Josephine/Josie, Nicole/Nicki, Katherine/Kate.

New baby alert (from a friend of a friend of a sister of a friend): Hayden Leigh - a girl

I have to laugh at all the grammar-philes here. I'm one too! And I agree it's refreshing to come here where great ideas are coupled with good grammar. lol!

Guest, I like Lucy better than Susie with your ln too. Lucia would be a nice "formal" version, if you're looking for that.

My daughter just got her K-5 yearbook today. I'll have to digest the names and post here later.

I love Lucia nn Lucy too and definitely had that same thought, but I worry about the pronunciation on that one... eh?

Mirnada-I don't think Leona will say "Helmsley" to your children's generation at all...more likely Leona Lewis or maybe Leona Naess, which are much prettier/more talented namesakes!

Not that I've ever heard a Leona Lewis song that I know of, but I figure anyone's gotta be more musically talented that Leona Helmsley right? :)

I know a baby girl named Arden..I think the mn is Brooke. To me it sounds like an upscale development of new homes. Baby is cute though--and will transform the name, I'm sure.

I think the issues with spelling and pronunciation of names is always going to be an issue, even if your name is perfectly common. Two names that always give me fits are Lindsey/Lindsay and Kristen/Kristin. I think the name itself is perfectly nice but I hate when I have students with these names, since they are equally prevalent (in my experience) and I consistently have trouble remembering which spelling a particular person uses.

On the issue of purposeful misspellings to avoid mispronunciation but getting it wrong: I have a good friend who named her daughter Icis because she didn't want people to think her daughter's name was Is-is (like the verb, as in "iz"-"iz"). But Icis just looks off, to me.

Qwen--you probably don't like this idea but if you want a literary middle name for a girl, what about George? George Eliot is one of my favorite authors and I secretly love the name George for a girl (although I would never use it as a first name). Gienna George?

zoerhenne--awww, I like that aspect of PA dialect (as in, "c'mon, it's time to redd up the house, so get out the sweeper, the rugs need swept"). I find it rather quaint and charming. :) For more on this distinct and highly entertaining dialect, check out http://www.pittsburghese.com/ .

Will wonders never cease? Just ran a name past my DH that I had given up on before. He didn't love it last time, but this time said "put it on the list". It's Natalya. Nickname Talya. What do you think? Natalya F0nt3n0t? I know it's not short, but...

Oh, and maybe it is just me, but I think dialects are charming. I just found out recently that it's common for folks in some areas of Pennsylvania to use the word "awhile" to mean something akin to "in the meantime"-- as in, "Can I get you something to drink awhile?"

I also absolutely love the word "y'all" (although I am less besotted with "youse") even though I can't bring myself to say "y'all" in everyday conversation because it feels fakey coming from me.

Natalya is great.

How about Bronwen/Bronwyn instead of Arwen? My daughter's middle name is Bronwyn and we always get compliments on it.

slk34--I don't think I've heard the "awhile" usage, but if you like y'all, I wonder if you'd like "you'ns" or "yinz", which are both Western PA dialect for the same thing. I also find dialect fascinating, and much more rich and complicated than simple bad grammar. My understanding is that, a lot of times, regional dialects arise (at least partly) from the idioms, accents, and grammar rules of the predominant immigrants to the area. I see it as kind of a living tie to the history of the area, and I think it's neat.

What about Aspen as an alternative to Arwen? Similar sound, and nice botanical meaning (unless you live in Colorado, of course). I know a little Aspen with younger sister Coral; I always thought that was a nice pairing. I think Bronwyn would be a good choice also.

mirnada- I like the sound of Natalya F0nt3n0t, but if I just heard it I'd be inclined to spell it Natalia (nn Talia). Is there a reason you're spelling it with a 'y'? There may be in which case nevermind, I just thought I'd ask:)

Very interesting conversations going on the past few weeks, sad that I've been so busy I've mostly been lurking! Did just hear a name I wanted to share though-- Keel!n, anyone ever seen it before?

Re: Elena, Elaina, I definitely see what everyone is saying and certainly putting them together makes Elena look more like the EL-en-ah pronunciation in my head.

oh! and if i was naming 14 children, wow...this will be difficult. in no particular order...

julian david
oliver (mn john?)
simon
maxwell christopher
alistair
elliott
samuel

nora (or eleanor, never can decide whether or not i like the full version better!)
charlotte gwendolyn
lucy kate
caroline alice
eva
adelaide
tess

(if i took the time to pick out middle names for all of them, i could be here all day!)

@ Bue #92:

Close, but no cigar (Leafy and I also had this discussion a few threads ago). Actually, the closest pronunciation is "Even" as in the word. Technically, it's "EE-van" but most North American Anglophones don't distinguish that much. In Irish, the AOI- comb is always pronounced "ee" while to get a long "a" you'd need either EI or E with a fada.

BTW, as to the illogical spelling/pronunication mismatches, my sister babysits for a wee girl called Kattie - yes, folks, that's "Kay-tie", not "Cat-y" apparently. Sigh.

Let's see--because these lists are so fun and self-indulgent, here are my 15 off the top of my head (although I love so many more than 15, it's hard to pick)--these are not accounting for DH's objections, but are taking the coordination with the LN into account:

Ivy
August
Sylvia
Oliver
Hyacinth
Graham (or Frasier?)
Beatrix
Calder (or Alden or Orson?)
Laurel (or Holly or Juniper?)
Shepherd
Althea (or Anthea or Amalia?)
Cavan (or Callum?)
Margaret
Rowan
Adele

Ok, well that was a sneaky way of doing more than 15, I guess--and I still had to leave out so many. I'm really terrible at this. lol.

hyz: Shepard surprises me...

hyz-Yes, the "awhile" thing gets me too. My dh is from Western PA and mostly in when the inlaws say things but a lot of folk around here (central) say these things too. I'm originally from CT so didn't grow up with these things and they sound very foreign and rural to me.

Mirnada-Natalya/Natalia is very nice my dd is Natalie as I've said before. I would be inclined to pronounce Na-tal-ya and Na-tal-ee-a for the above so you may be better off with the "Y".

emilyrae-You made me remember I forgot Maxwell on my fave list. So changing Richard Mitchell to Richard Maxwell.

Regarding the Kylia thing, I read her comment to mean that the Mom wanted to write "Kylha," not "Kyliah." I know she said "the end," but I expect she meant "near the end."

My friend just named his daughter Hannah, pronounced HAH-nah. She was named after a beloved relative who was originally from Germany. They always have to correct people, of course.

Hyz, I seem to remember that you were considering the spelling "Minha" at some point. I expect that would have gotten the correct vowel sound, though it's not as attractive visually to me.

One of my firm requirements was that the names had to be easy to spell and pronounce. LOTS of favorite names were eliminated on that basis. I think I was successful for my daughter Indigo; however, my daughter Phoenix has her named misspelled all the time!! Mostly, it is misspelled "Phenix" or "Pheonix" and once "Fenix." Even when I say it's spelled "like the city," people don't get it right. Argh!

PPP, thanks for that explanation. For what it's worth, I think it's very pretty.

Hyz:

Both Cavan and Callum made our short list for a boy (the former to honour a friend who lives in Belturbet, Co. Cavan, and the latter to incorporate both grandfathers' names).

Just applauding similar good taste!

hyz,
i like beatrix. so spunky. :] (i also like ivy....and august and oliver and sylvia and...)

zoerhenne,
glad i reminded you! i like richard too (it is my grandfather's name). i think i do like richard maxwell over richard mitchell because i don't like the rhyming rich and mitch syllables. this is interesting in itself as i often like repeated sounds in names. go figure. all of your choices were good though: solid classics and 70s/80s throwbacks. i think griffin is particularly fun.

i really like this list idea!

kattie=katie? oh dear.

hannah will absolutely have to correct everyone she meets her entire life, but i'm at a loss as how they could have spelled it differently... hahnah? hanah? hana? honnah?

PPP, just a thought:

Do you think your hubby would feel differently about Aoibheann if you state it as "Aoibheann nickname Evan"? The idea may sound weird when you say it out loud, since name/nickname (Aoibheann/ Evan) is pronounced exactly the same, but the point is to preserve the name (sound) while you simplify the spelling. And... wasn't that exactly what hubby asked for, a classic with a cute nickname? (Aoibheann better be an Irish *classic* for that argument to work).

PPP - sorry, Even instead of Evan. I misread in #129 .

Tirzah,

Are you really surprised to see Phoenix misspelled? I would not be very surprised to see it misspelled regularly. First, if you don't have spelling superpowers and pick it up aurally, the Ph/F error is almost predictable. Second, the vowel in the first syllable sounds like an 'e', and certainly nothing like an 'o'. Even if you remember something in the back of your head with that "weird Greek 'e' and 'o' together thing" you cannot logically determine if it should be 'oe' or 'eo'. Saying it is spelled "like the city" doesn't help those who think in sounds rather than words.

In regards to spouses making demands:

My DH has set the parameter that any future boy has to have an ENTIRELY Scottish name (including the mn.) It is really important to him and has been since childhood as it is his family tradition. So.... I was annoyed at first, as I had wanted to possibly use an Italian name to honor people in my family, but actually it certainly narrowed down the names and we actually both love a lot of Scottish boy names and have decided to use William with the nn Liam for a future boy and the mn Bruce (his father's name and his mn.)

For a girl, I have set the parameter that the name can not be in the top 1000 names. This annoys DH, but frankly I don't care since he's so picky about the boy name. Plus, I am a Jennifer and, though I do like my name, as a child I longed for a unique name and used to beg my mom to change my name to Diamond. Lol! I want my daughter to have a name that is unique, but not off the wall or anything. He has agreed. The only problem is our taste in girl names is pretty different. I like old fashioned, but unusual names, like Daisy, and he likes really standard classics, like Catherine. He has said maybe to my top choice though, so hopefully it all works out. And he agrees on the mn Rose to honor my grandma.

What do you think of the boy name choice? (This is all hypothetical future stuff as I'm not pregnant, but I'm just curious)

Have any of you who are new parents received the catalog 1st Wishes? It's all for 1st birthday party supplies (a little overkill, imo, but hey!). It's been fun looking at the names they chose to put on the products - all for babies presumably born in 2008. I'll list them with their SSN ranking.

Carly – 197
Alyssa – 16
Emma – 1
Anika – 573
Hannah – 17
Madison – 4
Natalie – 13
Jada – 110
Sophie – 74
Ava – 5
Olivia – 6
Ana – 169
Peyton – 60
Sarah - 20

Zachary – 47
Michael – 2
Noah – 15
Matthew – 10
Ryan – 18
Jason - 60
Nicholas - 29
John Kenneth – 20
Ethan – 3
Riley – 106 (assumed boy from the accompanying pictures)
Adam – 72
Jacob – 1
Alexander – 6
David Thomas – 14
Joey – 574 (Joseph – 13)

The only real surprise is Anika which, according to NameVoyager, has risen very quickly recently, but there were still only 530 Anikas born in 2008.

Anyhow, just thought I'd share.

JenniferPW-William Bruce is indeed very Scottish sounding. Nothing in the top 1000 is a little limiting though isn't it?

Alitalia-Very interesting list. Thanks for posting.

emilyrae-That's me living my alternate reality back in the 70's ;)

tirzah-You may be correct with the Kylah thing that would get ME to the correct pronunciation. Hannah however, hmm, maybe the Honnah sp would work. Phoenix seems easy to me though.

Anna,

Since Phoenix is the capital of Arizona and a major city, I did expect people to be familar with the correct spelling, despite the fact that you can't sound it out. (Most spelling is memorized anyway.) Plus, we do live out here in the West. But regardless of what I thought, you are clearly right! I guess kids don't have to memorize the state capitals anymore!

I wonder if people misspell Phoebe a lot. Are there any parents of Phoebes on this Board?

Gienna reminds me of Sienna.

I like Gia, especially if you have a long last name.

@Anna:

Yeah, It occurred to me that, by his own logic and his own criteria, Aoibheann should fit - besides "Even", there's Eve, Evie, Eva, and even (pun) potentially Fionn, if we went with the top choice of a middle name and smudged the "v" sound into an "f". I've pointed this all out, to no avail so far.

Like I said, the reasoning is inconsistent, which makes it harder to argue against!

pyewacket - I don't think my husband was being unreasonable in wanting the right to veto a name he really disliked, but I thought his reasons for disliking that particular name were kind of closed-minded. It seems to me that the validity of the personal-association veto really depends on the strength of the association. I can see not wanting to use the name of an ex-girlfriend, a kid who bullied you in elementary school and seriously traumatized you, a former close friend you had a falling-out with, etc. But a friend of a friend who was unattractive and irritating? I feel like that's an association that can be re-programmed with only a little bit of open-mindedness.

C& C's Mom - and now B! - Molly is still on my list, but I'd prefer to have a more formal name - it's a little too cute on it's own - that's not a dealbreaker, just not ideal. Also, part of the appeal of Amalia was it's rarity, so she could fall back on it if she wanted to stand out more. I like the idea of having flexibility in your identity - I never really had that with my name. Also, there is an Amalia a few generations back on my family tree (on the German side), so I felt that it was a nod to my heritage as well.

On the topic of initials - my sister and I have the same initials, and it actually never bothered me, although her name did accidentally show up on my credit report once (under the "other names used" section - scary!)

hyz, question - do you put a glottal stop before the -ah syllable of Minna, or are the two syllables joined smoothly? I read it as the latter, but when I read Min-ah I want to put the glottal stop in. Is that wrong?

In other news - we just adopted a kitten! Male orange tiger-striped tabby with a white belly and feet. He doesn't yet have a name. My husband is really pushing for Tigger, which I will probably end up accepting because I do have a great affection for tigers and I do like the character. I wanted to take some time to consider other options, though, because really, where's the fun in going with the first thing you think of? I've suggested a ton of other names, including Leo, Oscar, Hazel (because he has hazel eyes), and a series of explorers (because he was very bold exploring our apartment) - Columbus, Vespucci, Hudson, Magellan. DH is very set on Tigger, though, and he called me a name snob when I said I wanted something more individual. So, I think Tigger it will be. I know we're just going to end up calling him "kitty" all the time anyway.

One thing I found really neat was that all the animals at the shelter had names given to them. Our Tigger was originally Snickers, and the other kitties we seriously considered were Lexi, Richie and Francesca. Others I remember were Pippy, Truffle, Pouncer, Carlotta, Jenny Fur and Tim. It must be fun for the shelter volunteers to come up with all those names!

@Tirzah, hm, I hadn't thought of Kylha, but from the way she said it, it was pretty clear that she meant Kylah. Maybe when she's older she'll start spelling it Kyla(h) instead of Kylia to make life easier...

and re: Phoenix--I'm from Tucson, which is also similarly spelled incorrectly ALL the time. (I blame the airport code, since the code for Tucson is TUS). I know a lot of native Arizonans who spell Phoenix wrong, so I'm not surprised you get your daughter's name misspelled...as frustrating as that must be!

@Alitalia, I'm surprised by how high Carly is ranked actually. I guess it fits in with all the Kylie/Kayleigh crowd, but I haven't actually met any Carlys that are less than 25 or so.

EVie: That's funny, the first name that came to mind for me when you described your new kitten was Oscar.

RE: Natalia/Natalya. I would want to make sure that Talya was pronounced TAL-ya and not Tal-EE-a, and I think the y makes that clearer. I also think the y looks pretty, but that's less important, of course. I think it's an accepted spelling, but I haven't checked.

I keep trying to come up with 14 imaginary kid names, and I just can't do it. So many of the names I like sound similar or begin with the same letter (A, S, and N keep popping up). I'd definitely have favorites, which makes me uncomfortable, even with imaginary kids. I guess it's a good thing we're not going to have a large family!