In my last post, "Sharing the Choice," I talked about the value of parents sharing and compromising in baby name decisions. Among the examples of non-sharing I mentioned was this occasional refrain:
“I figure he gets the surname so I should get the first name, it’s only fair.”
Not surprisingly, some of you called me on it. Isn't it "only fair"? In the words of one reader:
"You gloss over the fact that the last name is still a 'solo domain.' Very few children (especially of married parents) have the mother's birth surname as their last name. Even if the mother has a beautiful, easy to spell surname, the children inevitably get the father's name, even if it's harsh-sounding and impossible to spell. When is there going to be a discussion about women being automatically cut out of that naming picture?"
So let me clarify.
I don't think giving up first-name rights because you "get" the surname is a natural tradeoff, because I consider first and last name decisions fundamentally different. The choice of a surname is about relationships, roles, traditions, and power. The choice of a first name is about individual identity.
In my years in the name business I have never, ever heard a parent say something like, "We're totally stuck on surnames. He wants Picard after Captain Picard, and I want Bronte after Charlotte Bronte." I've never seen an expectant mom's face light up in delight as she describes why she chose the surname Fenstermacher for her baby. And I've never heard a dad worry that if they name the baby Jessica, people will think she's not his child.
Sure, you can decide to trade first name rights for surname rights. You can also trade name rights for, say, the right to choose your next car, or responsibility for 4 AM feedings. Personally, though, I wouldn't do it. A first name is a unique bridge between you and your child, and between your child and the world. Nothing else really compares. Plus both parents are going to be saying this name countless times every day, so they'd both better like it.
Now, about those surnames. In my personal circle of friends and acquaintances I've seen an incredible variety of responses to the surname challenge:
- The woman took the man's surname after marriage.
- The man took the woman's surname after marriage.
- The woman hypenated her surname after marriage, the man didn't.
- Both of them hyphenated their surnames after marriage.
- Both of them changed to a whole new surname, created out of parts of the two original names.
- Both of them changed to a different family surname that would have otherwise died out.
- Both kept their own surnames, and the kids were given the dad's name.
- Both kept their own surnames, and the kids were given hyphenated names.
- Both kept their own surnames, and the kids were given a new surname created from the two parents' surnames.
- Both kept their own surnames and the sons got dad's surname, daughters mom's surname.
Doubtless there are even more creative permutations that I haven't encountered. (Please do share!) The right choice for an individual family depends on how you weigh many competing values. But whatever your approach to surnames, I'd suggest trying to work out the family identity before it's time to start shaping your kids' individual identities. It's better to have two shared decisions than two offsetting resentments.
Comments
This is an observation - not a personal attack on anybody.
The children always get *his* last name.
Many people like the idea of a united family with a shared last name - so the woman takes *his* last name. No one ever seems to consider *her* last name as a serious candidate.
Or, the good husband understands his wife's connection to her maiden name and lets her keep her name. That's totally cool - as long as the children get *his* last name.
Somehow I just don't feel it is "one giant step for woman" to be allowed to choose her own name, when it comes with the same inevitable clause; ...as long as the children gets his name.
Circe: Thank you for the complement, though I am quite rusty on the linguistics side of my degree at this point. I've been looking for a good reference for Korean names and pronunciations.
Tirzah: Kai has a couple of different origins, I believe, though the primary one mentioned known in the US is, of course Hawaiian. I believe there is a Welsh "Cai." I had not thought of Yul. I'll have to consider that too.
Tess: Though the last name is German (if mangled in spelling from a trip through Ellis Island, so neither the Germans nor the English ever would get it right the first time...grrr), we are not at all culturally German (much more Irish and Mediterranean, so I'm not looking to emphasize the German. Otherwise, the suggestion of Hans would work quite well, though.
hyz: I looked at the Korean actors' names. What a great place to browse for names!
Here are some names that caught my eye from the ones I looked through. Any catch your fancy? I don't know how to pronounce the ones with asterisks, so input would be great.
Tae
Jeon
Hyeong*
Kye*
Rok
Rae
Roi*
Yeol*
Kap
Seong*
Taek
Kye
Ri
Song
My children- and husband- have my birthname and not his. This was my 2nd marriage, and I told my husband I would not be changing my name a 3rd time (I changed it back after my divorce). I like my birth name, and didn't want to change it the first time, but did because of outside pressure to do so. Originally discussing it, we'd come across a baby name book in which the author and his wife had both kept their birth names, and decided that boys would have his last name, and girls- hers. We liked that compromise and could both live with it. My MIL hated it, insisting that our children would be horrifically confused and somewhat damaged from the process. I tried to use these same arguments on her when she found out that my husband had changed his last name to my birth name(they didn't work). The reason he decided to change his name- we were having twin girls. We've since added a 3rd girl too our brood, but my husband has not once regretted the decision. People generally don't know unless we tell them, and then they're shocked. My birth name is better. His only had one vowel and ended with "ldt". Since my brother has no children, we have the added benefit of continuing my family name. My daughters will know that societal tradition is just that- and not anything more.
When we name our children, there is none of this "they have your last name- so I get to give the first name". Changing your last name is a choice- and when you take it on, it's yours- not his or hers.
Growing up, I didn't want to use either my Mother or my Father's surnames. I wanted my own name and at the age of eighteen I chose a surname that I had no familial ties with and that I just liked the sound of. It was a very important moment in my life.
If I do have children, I would give them my surname. Note: I am female. I kept my surname when I married the first time and if I marry again I'll do the same.
People suggest that my partner may object to not using his or her surname, as theirs may be equally important. I'll consider this, and may use a hyphenated name if this is the case. They'll definitely have my surname as at least half of their surname.
Anna: Actually, there are many examples here of people not automatically giving their children *his* last name. Many women and couples are seriously considering using her surname for children. The point of this thread almost is how diverse surname choices can be.
In my Danish heritage changing of surnames was extremely common. We had a hard time tracking down ancestors because of that challenge. With that said, I never felt particularly attached to my surname. Changing my name to match my husband and start our own family gave me the feeling we were making a fresh start together. I’m curious that so many women feel such an attachment to their birth name that gives then a sense of identity.
I find the tradition of taking the husbands surname just that a tradition. Some people follow traditions, some don’t, it is not a big deal to me. But I do think it is funny when a woman expects her husband to follow the tradition of buying her a diamond ring for their engagement but not follow the tradition of taking his name.
Probably no one is reading this thread anymore, but I just wanted to add one last thought. To me, multiple last names does say "broken home" -- but that's probably because I come from a broken home, with a series of stepparents, half-siblings, and step-siblings. From that *personal* perspective, my thought is, yeah, you could say that taking your husband's name is somehow like making yourself his property or whatever. But has anyone considered that when you say that, you sound a little spoiled? Like, you take *belonging* to someone, and being wanted, very for granted?
I think there is ultimately something nice about belonging to my husband... and my name reflecting that. "I am my beloved's, and he is mine" as Song of Songs says.
@ hyz: I have the same issue as you, I'm 1/4 (or so, maybe less) British and 1/2 Russian (then Russia, now who-knows-what) but because of my British last name (think Taylor or Carpenter) I identify more with Britain than Russia even though my grandparents spoke Yiddish at home and my British ancestors have been here since the 18th or early 19th century. I also go to school with a lot of Russian immigrants so I feel less Russian than them so I feel more British and German/Italian/Greek (even though there are a lot of Italians at my school, I feel more Italian than Russian, 1/8 is TOTALLY more than 1/2 right?) and I'd be more inclined to give any future kid (not for 20 or years, but still) a British or Greek or Italian name than any other ethnic one from my side.
@ Leafy: I think Scarlett and Sophia are the best of that pile and to me a Sophia, Scarlett, and Theodora all look different so good backups, also Eloise Leaf is really nice and similar to Elodie, but is more old fashioned sounding than Sophia.
@ Bue: I agree about Marion, but I do like Marian as well, but not as much. I also love Thea nn, partly why I love the name Dorothea (also my grandmother Dorothy.)
Whoops, in my reply to hyz that should say 20 or SO years
We gave our children double-barrelled last names to honor both sides of the family, and I wish more people could respect that in this country. People have actually said to my face, "how could you do that to your kids?"
The concern, "what will happen when hyphenated kid gets married? Take a 3rd or 4th last name?" is a non-starter. Not a dilemma; the kids will simply pick one surname. Nor have we ever had an issue with "sorting" or a situation where airline security, teachers, or anyone else required proof that we were their parents.
Just hoping for the Golden Rule, where double-barrelled names are concerned. We gab freely about our likes and dislikes about names on this board, but I would never criticize someone's name choice to their face.
171 Lorien Rose: I am Asian, and OMG, Kai was the FIRST name that popped into my head after I read your specifications and even BEFORE seeing that Kai was your 1st choice! It’s a great Hawaiian name, and because Hawaii is an Asian melting pot, I think it’s a wonderful choice. However, echoing the other posters, I think it’d be a good idea to bounce ideas off Korean-Americans before making your choice.
On another note, the rare occasions that I’m addressed as Mrs. Husband’s Surname (I have my birth surname) don’t bother me at all. I like being addressed as Mrs. or Ms., because, hey, this is the age of servers coming up to your table and saying “hi guys”, so I’ll take the respectful forms of address when I can get ‘em. (smile)
My husband and I both hyphenated our names - we both wanted to share a last name with each other and with any future kids, but picking one or the other by itself didn't feel right. I agree with Esme - who cares what the (hypothetical) kids do when they (hypothetically) get married? This choice was about us and our family, and they'll be able to make the same choice for their family someday and do whatever they want. We'll be giving them life, so they can deal with the double-barreled surname ;).
As for the Mrs. thing - yes, so archaic! Although given the amount of Mr. & Mrs. HisLastName mail we've already been receiving, I'd settle for a Mr. & Mrs. OurRealName (roll eyes). And yes, we have gotten a wedding invitation from a friend in her twenties addressed to "Mr. & Mrs. HisFirst HisLast" (even though she knows what our names are!). I think sometimes there is a misconception that etiquette = following the rules in a book your grandma gave you, as opposed to etiquette = being respectful and making other people comfortable.
That said, we don't go around correcting people when they address our envelopes incorrectly - just quietly keep putting our return address on the replies and hoping they eventually pay attention. It's really only annoying when people KNOW what our names are and actively choose to call us what they wish our names were.
I should add - even though I think Mrs. isn't right for me (and probably no longer current to use for someone if you don't yet know what she wants), I don't care at all what anyone else chooses for themselves! I think the point is that everyone should try to pay attention and call other people what they wish to be called.
I haven't read all the comments here, but I do have something else to offer. My wife took my last name in marriage, but she chose to ditch her middle name and replaced it with her former surmane, not hyphenated. She had always disliked her middle name and identified with her surmane, but didn't want to create confusion for our kids by having a different last name than me.
Heh. This post went up the day my son was born. About a week before he was due, we FINALLY resolved the surname issue, after nearly 9 months of squabbling. (We went with a dual surname: Mysurname Dadssurname. People immediately got it wrong and keep referring to him as Firstname M. Dadssurname. Sigh.)
By comparison, his first name was easy.
zoerhenne asked:
"Do blind people care how the name looks on paper?"
Blind people choose the names they choose for their children for all of the same reasons as sighted people do; the way the name flows with the child's last name, family history and traditions, cultural and ethnic practices, etc.
A blind parent who is a name-o-phile (like, say, myself) will probably make a more sophisticated, well-informed decision than a blind person who consults a couple naming web sites or books a few months into the pregnancy. This is no different than the differences between a sighted name addict and most of the rest of society, who basically just choose a name based on whatever strikes their fancy at the time or maybe name the kid after a relative.
Blind people also live in the same world everybody else does, so we're as likely to follow regional trends as any other couple. A friend of mine and her husband (both of whom are blind) and live in South Dakota want to name their daughter Addison or Alyvia (the name Addison and creative spellings like Kaydin and Ashleigh are popular in that blue collar part of the country). On the other hand, a blind couple I know who live in New England (the husband is a lawyer and the mother is a dietitian) just named their daughter Abigail Catherine, which is pretty traditional New England yuppie fare. And then there are my blind friends who want to name their daughter Oriana...no frickin' clue about the motivation for that one. Their first child is a boy named Austin.
One interesting wrinkle is that I do know one couple in Utah where the mother is blind and the father is sighted who wanted to name their son AnDrew (yes, with a capital D). However, when the baby was born and it was obvious that he was also blind, they chose to name him just plain Andrew (lower case d) becase of the way the name would be written in Grade 2 Braille (AnDrew would be written CapitalSign A N CapitalSign D R E W, which is 8 cells as opposed to Andrew which would be written CapitalSign ANDSign R E W, which is only 5 cells).
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