In the supermarket checkout line, I overheard two 60-something grandmas talking about their kids' baby-naming dilemmas. Grandma One lamented that the parents-to-be ignored all her lovely suggestions, like Karen and Diane. Grandma Two shook her head at the whole complicated business, and reminisced:
"Back when my kids were born, I just told my husband what names I'd picked and he didn't interfere."
“Didn’t interfere.” I've talked to countless 21st-century expectant parents, and that is one sentiment I've never heard. Rightly or wrongly, it summons a vivid picture of that 1970s family...a picture that doesn't include a lot of late-night feeding and diapering on Dad's part. He wouldn’t want to “interfere” with his wife’s child-rearing. Most moms today wouldn’t stand for that, right? And yet…haven’t you heard a mom say something like this?
“I figure he gets the surname so I should get the first name, it’s only fair.”
“I’m the one who has to give birth, so I get the final say.”
or even…
“I just waited until I was deep in labor and he was feeling so guilty that he agreed to whatever name I wanted!”
I understand the impulse. Pregnancy and birth are huge undertakings, and it’s tempting to claim naming rights as part of your reward for a job well done. And yes, most kids do still bear their fathers’ last names. But moms, before you cut your partner out of the naming picture, think about what precedent you’re setting by declaring this first major parenting decision a solo domain.
The choice of a name is one of the first ways you bond with a child. Unlike choosing a stroller or decorating a nursery, naming makes you stop and imagine your child’s whole life to come as a member of your family. When the time finally comes to call your new baby by her name, the dream-turned-reality can be a magical moment. Moments like that are best shared. They’re building blocks of the affection that keeps you going through the ups and downs and long nights of parenthood.
Even a single mom might think about ways to share the joy of naming. Sure, it’s your decision. But letting loved ones into the decision process, letting them share the excitement, can help build your baby’s early connections with people who will be an important part of her life.
This not to say that you have to give in when you want the name Eleanor and your partner wants Ashley. Just think twice about going for the straight power grab. Finding common ground or negotiating a compromise on names sets a good precedent for the many decisions that lie ahead.
Sharing the Choice
06/17/2009, 9:01AM
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Comments
New post to discuss all the other stuff...
The baby name debate. I have no kids yet but do have a DH. We have never discussed any names for any children we may have. We do however incessantly comment on any names of friends/colleagues babies. I know he is like me and dislikes common or overused names. He seems to like classic names or far-out names. For example James or Horatio. I really hope Horatio was a joke. I think we would be in for a lively debate if the time ever comes to name a real child. Hopefully many of my favourites get a fair hearing.
For the record, the majority of our friends have gone with the mother's preferred name and the dads have been talked into it. Some friends have gone with 'the only name they could agree on'. I have one set of friends who were both really into the name debate (and I even got to be involved!), they picked delightful names for all 3 children and slightly more unusual choices.
Re the surname thing, I legally use both my married (mostly personal matters) and maiden (mostly professional matters) names. I intend to keep it that way. I wasn't keen on my married name (difficult spelling and pron.) but my husband kind of wanted me to change it. I also liked the idea of the same surname for some things. Although I didn't love my maiden name I was attached to it after all those years with it, and qualifications gained using it, so still keep it for many things.
Sorry about the long post but funny story about my own name. My parents had decided on a name but when I was born my mother decided I didn't 'look' like that name, and was reconsidering. My dad was set on it though, so went off and registered the birth (and name) without my mothers agreement or knowledge. I don't think she has ever quite gotten over it.
Leafy - that is so funny that you mentioned Theodora, I was about to post with that suggestion (Dorothea reminded me of it). Has taken me awhile to catch up due to the number of posts today and I keep forgetting things. Anyway like the name suggestions. Prefer Theodora to Dorothea but would probably use Thea as a nn for either. I also think you can definitely get a flower name in their as a middle, especially if it is a first middle of two middles like your suggestions. Think I like Theodora Violet Edith better for you than Aven. I like the Aiobheann spelling that PPP is going to use.
apologies post 102 should have been 'in there' rather than their.....
On the original topic:
Actually my kids will have my last name (I'm female) and my husband's last name will be their second middle name. So not all children are "stuck" with their father's last name! It's not because he doesn't like his name, but rather that he has a horde of younger brothers -- whereas if I don't pass my last name on to the next generation it will be lost to this branch of the family.
(Besides, this way I get to pass on my initials. I have the same initials as my father and his father, so it would be cute to pass them on to one of the kids.)
As for choosing a first name, I suppose we fall into the typical couple where I'm the one doing all the research and he's the one suggesting preferences and vetoing the occasional idea. Not that I haven't vetoed a few of his, but he hasn't gone out of his way to make suggestions.
It's true that having his input is important in getting him to help with raising the kids, it's one of the first big decisions we make about them. I expect him to do his share in raising them (both our careers will take a hit, not just mine). I don't like the older generation's attitude that the children and the kitchen are the woman's domain (both my mom and mother in law definitely have this attitude, although I don't think either is aware of it). I suppose in a way it's their version of women's lib: if the woman takes over some chunk of the household duties then she's the one in charge in those areas, if nowhere else. My version of women's lib is to share all those duties and negotiate my way through life, so that hopefully everything that needs doing gets done, somehow, by somebody. I have no doubt this will totally confuse the older generation, who will wonder why I'm allowing DH to change the diapers...
Leafy:
What about Rosalind? It's nature-esque without the full-on botanical feel.
To me, Thea Leaf is somewhat of a tongue twister! I feel like I lisp as I say it.
Leafy: I love Theodora, and actually one of my favorite teachers in school was a Theo (and I also love Thea.)
AK: My mind was going in the same direction -- Rosanna, Rosamund, Rosemary (I also once knew a Rose-Marie.)
On the OT: I said earlier I sometimes talk to my husband about the topics here, and I got no further than option B, I think it was ... Mom would have a list and Dad would veto names, and he said "That's us!"
His rationale is that, while he hears names he likes and supports my name enthusiasm, he doesn't remember most of them later on. He has very short lists of names he likes: Gwendolyn (his grandmother's name), Frances (his other grandmother), names that end in -olly (Molly, Holly and Polly) and Susannah. Sebastian, Rhett and Charles. He's kind of all over the place. (He did really like Stellan, though, per the discussion from the last blog post).
Usually if I suggest a name, and he doesn't like it, he can say why -- I said Cecilia earlier, and he said no -- it was the name of a relative he was afraid of as a young child. He doesn't like Jarvis b/c of a comic book character, etc.
Found out not too long ago that my name was originally to be Stephanie Ann. How they switched tracks so drastically I wasn't able to find out. ;]
Really interesting post. I am all for sharing the naming choice, but something doesn't sit right with me about asking women to 100% share that choice with their partners when we often don't have real, honest conversations about sharing the surname choice. I'd like to see both parents actively involved in choosing the whole name, and not just reverting to dad's last because it's the done thing (though that's absolutely fine if it's what you consciously want).
Re: my own name, my parents were at loggerheads right up until the birth - they each had a favourite name. My mum had a difficult labour and in a wave of sympathy afterwards, my dad announced, "Her name is Hilary" - her choice. I suspect labour sympathy is a powerful force in naming! (He got his choice next time around with my sister.)
The only Linnea I know is Asian. I think that her family just liked it (though I don't remember if she's an adoptee to a Sweedish family). Re: spelling/pronouncing, it's an easy sound to remember once you've heard it, so I doubt your daughter would have issues beyond the initial "How is that spelled?"
-We are constantly asked for the spelling of our sons' names, and I am shocked at how often I look down and the speller has written "Issac" or "Iszak!" Here we thought we picked the classic spelling of a common first name for a boy--so I wouldn't let the spelling/pronunciation thing bother you if you really like the name. Apparently everyone is on guard about spelling even the classics what with the kre8tive spellings out there! You'll be spelling your kids' name even if you were to choose something that is really common.
I am definitely the name-nick in our house, and my husband tended to have veto power rather than actually coming up with ideas...however, he vetoed "Isaac" very early in my first pregnancy, and we had settled on "Luke." Imagine my shock when I asked him after a very tough labor if we were sure this little guy was called "Luke," only to hear him say that he felt certain his name was Isaac!
We, too, are expecting a girl in the fall, little sis to Isaac & Liam. We're not adverse to common or even somewhat trendy, but we'd like something more uncommon for our DD than for the boys.
I was madly in love with "Amelia" but I think I have found a new crush-"Eliza." Imagine my surprise in shopping the name around family/friends who have never heard of it! It's getting a largely positive reaction, though guarded-I always thought Eliza was a name that everyone recognized. Many people seem to think I said "Elijah." Sigh.
zoerhenne, my ears perked up when you said your name doesn't have an obvious nickname (my favorite kind!)
Wondering if you or any other Stacy/Staceys have ever been called "Stash" for short? I like the nonchalance of that. And it has a certain Slavic glamour. Didn't Stacy start out as a nickname for Anastasia?
Stash could even be spelled "Stas" which is how I think Prince Radziwill (first name-- "Stanislaus") spelled it, even though it was pronounced as "stash"...
The unrestrained nicknamer in me had to comment...
Toothfairy - even names like Michael and John get mispelled as Micheal and Jhon! :-) I love Eliza!
Wow! There's so much to catch up on here.
Leafy--I think I prefer Aven to Theodora/Dorothea (although Theodora takes the lead between those two).
PPP--Congrats on finding out you're getting your little Aoibheann! Love it.
I opted to change my name when I got married. His ln is actually the 1st syllable of my maiden name--think Watts and Watson--so I was already sick of the comments about our names' similarity. It took some getting used to, though, having my new name be a truncation of my original. Now I love it, much more than I ever did my maiden name.
It was also important to me that we all share the same ln and I certainly didn't feel anywhere near as strongly about retaining my ln as he did.
I too like Eliza.
Thanks for the Cordelia Fae comments. It's still a work in process. I would probably gravitate towards Delia as a nn. I could also do Cora or Cory although my dh thinks Cory is a boys name. We would probably start by exclusively using her whole name. We have not shortened Eloise and we both like the idea of using the long formal name. We know friends and peers will bestow nns in the future and we're fine with that.
My dh and I agreed last night that people could start calling our Eloise by Batman (or some other far flung name) and we wouldn't care. She is who she is no matter the name. While I love the naming process, it's amazing how once the child's personality emerges, the name fades away.
Wow--busy here!
Leafy--I like Theodora a lot, and think it sounds great with Leaf, although I agree with the comment above that Thea Leaf is a tad hard to say. I knew a Theodora in high school, and she went by both Thea and Dora, alternately. I also really like the suggestion of Rosalind for you. I agree with the crowd that Violet Leaf is a no-go.
PPP--congratulations!
Toothfairy--I know a man whose name is actually spelled Issac--it drives me a little nuts, and it has taken much restraint not to comment on his misspelling (it's certainly not his fault, and I'm sure he's sick of those comments).
Anna--thanks for the insight into Danish surname practices--very interesting!!
Re: surnames--I like Bue's comment that "I am all for sharing the naming choice, but something doesn't sit right with me about asking women to 100% share that choice with their partners when we often don't have real, honest conversations about sharing the surname choice."
In our case, DH and I did have these conversations before getting married. He knew that I had no intention of changing my last name to his (and not because of the relative merits of our particular last names, but because I don't really care for the history and symbolism of women changing their names). For kids, we discussed hyphenation (nixed because it sounded clumsy) and creating a new last name for either the kids or all of us by combining our names (nixed because we didn't want to lose the history of our individual family names). So we settled on the idea of giving any girls my last name, and any boys his last name. We liked that it would create a new sort of lineage (both matri- and patrilineal), would potentially preserve both our names, and was based on chance (the sex of the child) rather than prioritizing one of our names over the other. It seemed good.
Then, DH's father unexpectedly passed away right before our wedding, and DH became very sentimental about passing his father's name on. For that reason, I was somewhat hoping that we might have a boy first, but of course we ended up having a girl. Like the labor sympathy thing in reverse, I wasn't inclined to argue with him about it to get my way, so we gave our daughter his LN. I still consider the surname of our future child(ren) to be an issue open for discussion, but I haven't brought it up yet--I know he's hoping they'll also have his LN.
We did know a family that had two kids, and gave the first (a girl) dad's LN, and the second (a boy) mom's LN. The funny thing was, the girl turned out to have dad's dark, curly hair, and the boy grew up light and blue-eyed like his mom. People always seem to think that family members having different last names will cause these monumental administrative headaches all the time, but they didn't seem to have a problem, and even 20+ years ago when I was growing up with a different last name than my mom, we didn't have any problems. Really, with all the blended and alternative family structures nowadays, I think two last names within a family would be the least of anyone's problems.
I knew I'd forgotten something!
Elaine--I really like Cordelia Fae, and it sounds beautiful with Eloise's name.
Leafy: I wouldn't worry about Aven Leaf being too short. For nature names, maybe something like bird names would work. Only other plant words wouldn't work I think. Love your two latest choices! I think that for this generation, Thea/Theodora might be more distinctive (given the similarity of Aven to Aidan folks pointed out). However, Aven seems a bit more sporty/tomboy. Idk, they're both great!
We were a C for our first daughter and a D for our second. Dh exercised veto power the first time around. When our dd was born I suggested my two favorite names and he made the final choice-- Lucia.
The second time around dh was more involved and even generated a few names for our lists. When our second dd was born he acquiesed to me and I announced her name, Marina Raquel. Within a few minutes, dh expressed doubts about the name and suggested a different name-- one that we had not really discussed for some time. He surprised me by advocating strongly for the name and I was so pleased at his level of involvement that I happily agreed to the new name-- Leah Josephine, which is what we ultimately named her!
I actually preferred Marina, but it was so satisfying to have his sincere and active input that it doesn't bother me.
Interestingly, Leah was the name that was beat out by Lucia for our first dd. (Can't remember who brought up this thread for discussion). I didn't mind that it was "recycled". I was more concerned with having two L names for our dds. Dh didn't seem to mind this as both he and his brother are Js.
moonlady: i think that's awesome that your kids will have your LN. i think it's hard to do that kind of thing... it just goes against what most people expect. i always think of that Saved by the Bell episode. can't remember exactly what happened but they were all getting "married" (maybe for a class project) and if you remember, Screech was madly in love with Lisa, and it was a big joke that he would take her last name.
Tirzah - I'm quite fortunate that my answer to your survey is D. My husband participates quite a bit, actively coming up with new names and new name combinations. He doesn't research much, but he's still an active contributer to our name-making decisions. We're pretty nice about the other's suggestions, too.
Leafy: What about Miranda? A Shakespeare name that's beautiful and not too out there, with pretty much no tease potencial.
re: Linnea--the only one I know pronounces it like Zinnia, with no emphasis on any syllable.
re: Cory as a girls name. Actually the only Coreys I know are both girls--one late twenties, one early twenties. But the younger one has a sister named Tyler, so I think that they went for more "boyish" names.
re: lastnames--I changed my name when I got married, partly because I liked my husband's name better than mine, partly because it would've been weird in our circle of friends/family if I hadn't. It didn't bother me at all, and I still like my new name, but now that we're planning to start having kids soon, it's a little weird for me to think of them as not having the same name as my family in terms of comparisons. (I have a very large family with some pretty distinct personality characteristics, which we sum up by saying "that's such a Smith thing" or "you're being so Smith right now") and it just suddenly occurred to me recently that while I can still use "Smith" as an adjective for myself, since I was one for 23+ years, it won't apply to my children!
Of course I guess our kids could be more like my dh's family in personality, in which case it won't matter anyway...
Oh--re: Tirzah's survey, I think we started out at A, but are progressing toward D. My dh didn't want to talk about names at all when we first got married, but over the last few years he has become increasingly more interested, and has recently even started suggesting names of his own. I don't know that he'd ever actually make a list, but he has been much more involved now that there's a real child in the nearish future, and not just theorizing on my part!
Leaf-LOL thats 3 votes for Miranda. We all have great minds on here. Too bad you can't use it. I also thought of Muriel or Mariel. I think having the L at the end lessens the alliteration. I don't much care for the repeated E sound in Theodora/Dorathea but if I had to choose between the two I guess it would be Theodora better.
PPP-Congrats!
Lincoln's mom and also Michael&Lane's mom-What about Rhett? Someone above posted that and it sounds wonderful for both of you.
Eo-What a great memory! Yes my name is Stacey. Pretty nn-proof. If anything it was just shortened to Stace. Never Stash-thats interesting. Yes the origin is from Anastasia but that's not my name. One time when my friends and I were joking around with names I became Sasha for a bit which felt kind of weird. I was however in my previous post referring to my kids names. Eric & Natalie. We don't like the nn Nat and were going for Allie but it never stuck. Eric is pretty nn-proof too.
I don't think I've heard any moms I know say that they got to choose the name because they were the one who gave birth, etc.
My husband and I definitely shared in the name decision-making for both our kids, although it was mostly me making suggestions and him accepting or rejecting them. I did have to talk him into our son's name, which is Jonah. He's named in memory of my dad, whose name was Jonathan, and I was pretty adamant about it. My husband had known a Jonah in high school that he didn't like, and initially rejected it, but I managed to convince him that our son wouldn't remind him of that Jonah every day of his life. 32 months later, he agrees that I was right. :)
Oh goodness me! The names my MIL suggests! Sweet woman, terrible names. And she's convinced that a name was very common if one child she knows had it. I dread the day I have to pretend to consider her suggestions ...
I’m lucky, hubby and I share a naming style. He seems to feel the same way about all the baby names we hear.
He does often hate the names I choose for my dolls, but (when I don't give them wacky names), I usually give them names I would never choose for my own child. It's a chance to use names I like but don't fit in my life or the family.
Elaine: Count me as another that loves Cordeila Fae, and it's lovely with Eloise. I really like Cory as a nn, and have known as few female "just Cories," so I don't think it'd be too out of place.
Anne with an E: My family weighed on my decision, too. Both my family and his were unsupportive of me keeping my name. That didn't factor into my decision much, but I think when you know that there's bound to be unhappiness over a decision, it weighs on you a bit.
All told, I'm not disappointed I changed it or whatever. I didn't love my ln before and now I have a snappy, kind of comic book-ish name that I really like.
Leafy: Another possible nickname for Theodora is Thora. I also really like Avan, actually.
Prairie Dawn: I think Leah and Lucia go together really well - there is something about the combo that I really like. Maybe it's that they sound like they would be friends, those two girls, but also each name has a separate history and rhythm.
Linnaeus: I liked your explanation for all the male vetoing: that there is no way to win the name game but lots of ways to lose. A really interesting perspective. I'm not sure I agree, though. If I hear of someone with a really, really great name I almost always want to meet that person. I would certainly interview him or her. I tend to believe that people with creative names will be creative themselves, even though that isn't always so.
About the way my dh and I decide... I would say that I make the lists, and then we narrow them down together. Although the final decision is almost always closer to his taste than mine, somehow. But after four boys in a row, I am absolutely dead set on naming our next daughter (if God gives us one) May, even though he doesn't really care for it. I've loved it since I was about twelve, so I feel that that should count for something. There is no name that he's loved that long!
@ Leafy:
On the Aven/Theadora debate, I think the 2 are really divergent in style, even using Thea/Thora (which I love!) as a nn. So maybe the easier way to decide is in terms of the image or "personality" you envisage for your daughter - i.e. spunky and energized or classic and feminine? I know those are over-generalizations of the names, but you get the idea. For us, the hardest part in choosing for our daughter was between 2 names that seemed "equal but opposite" - if there are no outstanding pros/cons on the surface, the image question for you and your partner may help narrow it down.
:)
Anne with an E- I can so relate to what you're saying. Two Father's Days ago, my mother invited both sides of the family to her house. We played Family Feud and everyone got mad at me when I felt like I belonged more on the Noble side than the married name side. I was so upset that they were saying I wasn't a Noble anymore. I think that's when I started regretting changing my name.
zoerhenne - I do like Rhett and Rhys but my dh says "no way" to both. I don't know that either would have had staying power on my list with our ln, but I still really wanted them there for a bit. Oh well.
Leafy- I think you said you can't do Juliet, would Julietta be an option. A colleague named her daughter this and I really like the sound of it and the slightly different possibilities from Juliet/Juliette. Also, what about Hannah or Savannah or something like that that sounds soft/gentle and might be a nice contrast to your ln with its harder sounds.
I also want to say that I had a 1 syllable maiden name with a hard sound beginning. I always thought that Kim X sounded harsh and not very feminine. But then when I got my PhD and felt like I had accomplished something in a M-dominated area, I liked how crisp my name sounded. So, to use linneaus' point from earlier, (great posts, by the way - loved the perspective), you might think about what kind of name/feeling you want from the name and go from there. A 1 syllable name or nn might be perfect or awful for you.
I see that ppl put when they're not logged in. For a while I just used a screen name. After I saw these notes about being logged in I went and logged in but I still don't understand what kind of benefits I'm missing when I'm not logged in. I'd really appreciate some feedback on this.
Leafy- even though I had just read PPP's comment I didn't realize I was reiterating her sentiments until I paged up after posting. I'm going to claim pregnancy brain, but it could just be distraction today! sorry PPP!
PunkPrincessPhd, I also love that suggestion. That's something I did a LOT when trying to compare names from my list. I found I had fairly strong images and/or associations that went with each name, and although all were generally positive, some were more what I'd wish and/or expect for/from a child of mine. It's also good to consider how well the name will "fit" if the child doesn't turn out as expected (like in Guest's excellent quote re: Linnea Elise and Agnes--or was it Agatha?). I don't think it would be too much of a problem with either Aven or Theodora, but still something to consider.
Like many of the other commenters, I came up with long, carefully-considered, exhaustively-researched lists of names. And my husband vetoed every single one of them.
He wanted to name our son after his father -- a name that had two strikes against it (1) The name was, to my mind anyway, boring. Classic, yes. But oh-so-dull. (2) His father is very much alive and in my culture (Ashkenazi Jewish) you just don't name a baby after a living relative.
But, in the end, after he'd rejected every single name I proposed (and I came up with dozens), I gave in, mostly out of sheer exhaustion.
Niobe.x-- I like your name- Niobe- going to have to run it by dh. As I do with all names I like, I ran a quick google search (like how it is connected to greek mythology, but a sad story) And on a baby board on this name, I saw this comment, which seems weird to me:
'The child might get made fun of because of her "different" name how about....Nikole or Nadalia?' Nadalia seems much more "different" than Niobe to me!
Thanks, Jane, Mother of Five. I hadn't thought of my girls' names in those terms but I think you are right. I certainly hope they will be friends, best friends!
While there are many things that irritate me about the way that my husband acts or thinks, when it comes to names, I can't help but adore him. I am a NE and have been listing names for my future children since childhood. My DH was my childhood best friend before we dated and married, and he is always randomly suggesting names that he likes for our future kids. We don't always agree, but it is a topic of conversation that we often bring up and enjoy discussing together. When we are actually pregnant, I can only imagine we will have a wonderful time deciding. I would hate to think what it would be like to have a husband that wasn't as enthusiastic as I am about names, but I know that that is usually the norm.
Someone posted early on about sibling sets. Someone had a Mia, Anna, and Elise, I believe.
Funny because we have an Anna and are considering Amelia for our second (could be nn Mia) and also like Elise! Once again, a reminder that I am not really that creative. :)
I like Eliza, too. And Rosemary.
kate b,
don't feel unoriginal! some people have similar tastes is all; the names you like are beautiful!
@Leafy-
Was there a specific reason you were considering Edith? My favorite 4-name combo for you would be Theodora Aven Violet Leaf. You could wait and see her personality, then decide whether she'd go primarily by Thea, Aven or whatever. Edith with ln Leaf seems a bit heavy on the -ee sound to my ears, but of course you may have a good reason for wanting it.
I think with my DH naming will be a compromise, with one exception. My top boy's name has been my favorite for years, and I just can't see parting with it to the point that yes, I would probably steamroll him (or be tempted to). I haven't even had the guts to mention it to him yet because I'm afraid he'll hate it. Other than that, he has good taste and I am willing to compromise on any of my other choices.
LMBO about Gi@como Spr!ngsteen Jones-Smith-Brown!! I've always wondered, what happens when two people with hyphenated names have a kid?
@Leafy-
Was there a specific reason you were considering Edith? My favorite 4-name combo for you would be Theodora Aven Violet Leaf. You could wait and see her personality, then decide whether she'd go primarily by Thea, Aven or whatever. Edith with ln Leaf seems a bit heavy on the -ee sound to my ears, but of course you may have a good reason for wanting it.
I think with my DH naming will be a compromise, with one exception. My top boy's name has been my favorite for years, and I just can't see parting with it to the point that yes, I would probably steamroll him (or be tempted to). I haven't even had the guts to mention it to him yet because I'm afraid he'll hate it. Other than that, he has good taste and I am willing to compromise on any of my other choices.
LMBO about Gi@como Spr!ngsteen Jones-Smith-Brown!! I've always wondered, what happens when two people with hyphenated names have a kid?
Eo - if you're out there, have you got any really snazzy nicknames for Catherine?
Leafy: Love the name Theodora, but I'm having the same problem with mn Edith that people are having with Thea - namely that Edith Leaf just sounds too close in sound, particularly with the -th and -f sounds both on the end. With Thea at least it's in a different part of the name, and it won't always be immediately followed up by her last name like Edith will, so I have no problem with it. If all else fails, Dora Leaf sounds nice too.
Rhanda: Hmm, does your husband's dislike stem from Iron Man's butler or the Blue Beetle's villainous uncle?
toothfairy: Funny you should say the people you mention Eliza to think you're saying Elijah - I've been having a bear of a time trying to convince my husband that the Russian name Ilya is thoroughly masculine, so when I told him it was a form of the name Elijah, he heard Eliza!
As for the survey, dh and I are B, though we haven't started having kids yet. I'm as apt to veto his ideas as he is mine, but he doesn't come up with nearly as many names. He's utterly shot down my all-time favorite name Ford (though I might be able to work it in as a middle name on a second son, who I would of course incessantly call Ford). Currently we've decided on Victor nn Vic for a son; and for a daughter, potential sibset issues with Vic have for now led us toward an unusual name with the nn Tia. We'll see if we still like the names when we have to use them, though!
And last names: changed mine but didn't mind a bit. My maiden name started with W, while husband's name starts with a C. Considerable bump up the alphabet for me! Unfortunately my new surname is twice as long as my old one, which doesn't work so well with my eight-letter-long first name and 7 and 8 letter middle names! Can't drop a middle name since they're for both my grandmothers, but I do have plans to change my first name - my mother won't hear of it, of course. "It doesn't matter what name is on the resume, what matters is the rest of it!"
Punchline? Well, would you look very hard at the resume of someone named Princess?
CB, nli: Oh, nicknames for Catherine. One of my husband's few name suggestions has been K@tt, after a video game character - of course he's flexible on the spelling. I did try and talk him out to Katherine (my favorite spelling), but his family's covered in nickname-as-names (R0nnie (f), Julie, D@nny)! I've got nothing again nicknames, but my family's culture (Filipino) prefers to start with the long form of names and then come up with fun nicknames. Family examples off the top of my head: M@rilyn nn L@l@ine, Terecit@ nn Thess.
Anyway, in addition to Cat, there's old standbys like Cathy, Cate, Cath or Cass. I've got a liking for Rin, though I suppose there's always Erin.
ex-Princess - I have to say, I think I would. I'd see the name Princess and be dying of curiousity to know what Princess had done with herself! It could ultimately be an assest - what an interesting dichotomy it could be! That said, I'd have only empathy for any Princess that wanted to change her name...
Thanks, ex-Princess. I've always liked my name a lot, and have used various nns at various stages. Eo always comes up with the coolest nns... If we end up opening our business, I was thinking it might be a good opportunity to adopt a nn. Hehe.
ex-Princess: It's Iron Man's butler :] He says he can't disassociate "Jarvis" from that character, although "he's a pretty cool butler."
CB, nil: I really like Kit for Catherine (Katherine, I suppose). I love the sort of 1930s throwback feel of it. I also went to college with a Kitty, which I also liked, but which isn't everyone's cup o tea.
Leafy - another possible nn for Theadora would be Theda, though I think it was originally for Theodosia.
CB, here in Australia, Catherine is occasionally nicknamed Kaz.
Naming patterns in my family - just because
Our son's name is First Dadslast Momslas.
Son's dad's name is First (his)Momslast (his)Dadslast.
Son's dad's parents (married) have kept their own names.
My name is First First (my)Momslast.
My name at birth was First First Momslast Dadslast (with Momslast as a middle name, technically). I changed it at 18 because my (older) brothers had both done the same, and I wanted to have the same name as them. My brothers were originally First Momslast Dadslast. They deleted Dadslast because it is an extremely common name and their firstnames were common as well. Mumslast is rare (ours exclusively, actually) in our country but it sounds familiar and the pronunciation and spelling is straight ahead. Our mother took our father's name when they married and kept her maiden name as her middle name. She uses her maiden name at work, because there are many others with her married name.
On one side of my family, all my female second cousins (our grandfathers were brothers, our parents were first cousins) have named their children First Dadslast Momslast (Momslast is the same as mine). Also, they and their husbands now all have the family name Dadslast Momslast. The Dadslast-names in question are nice, rare names. I don't have much contact with these cousins so I don't know their reasoning, but I would think it has most to do with flow.
The male second cousins, on that same side, all have children named First Momslast Dadslast (Dadslast being the same as mine). Again I'm guessing the order was based on the flow of the name.
My brothers and I have used three different naming patterns:
Bro1's children and wife: First Dadslast*
Bro2's children and wife: First Middle Wifename Dadslast*
(* mine and my brothers' lastname is the same)
Myself + SO: First Dadslast Momslast*
Both brothers' wives had very common first and last names. SIL1 wanted a less common lastname and saw no need to keep hers. SIL2's name was (and is) tied to her career, and she publishes under her maiden name. Similarly, my SO and I will not change our names because of published work.
... and after typing all this, I now realise how we may come across as a mafia-type family mercilessly pushing our name upon unsuspecting, submissive spouses. The no-negotiable naming pattern is First Theirs OURS ;-)
Rhanda: Comics butlers do usually end up pretty cool - Alfred and Cadbury come to mind too. And I knew I'd forgotten some nicknames for Catherine - Kit's one of my favorites!
CB, nli: Hm, that's what I get for asking a bunch of enthusiasts! I'm a pretty lackluster Princess though. There's also a little Goddess elsewhere in the family - of course I think her name is the bee's knees.
Wow, thanks to all of you who offered suggestions/comments/advice - I really appreciate it! So much to think about!
The name suggestions first:
Miranda - yes unfortunately one of my best friends has it as her first choice for a girl, so it is untouchable for me. Love it though.
Rosalind - yes everyone who suggested this is spot-on - I totally adore it. It would be one of my first choices (I especially love how I could have Rose as a nickname, but without actually naming my child Rose Leaf!) but hubby has firmly vetoed it.
Rosemary - also lovely (even with the plant connotations!) but it is the name of my husband's cousin and feels like "her" name to both of us.
Muriel/Mariel - my mother's name is Muriel and she hates it. She has actually asked us not to name our child after her, even as a middle name! I must admit I am not a fan of Muriel anyway, so it's fine by me not to use it! Mariel is quite different somehow, but it still doesn't grab me. Also, I am not keen on first names that end with the same letter (or sound) as the start of the last name - they tend to run together. So names ending in L are out for me.
Eliza - I know this name wasn't suggested for me, but I just want to say that I LOVE it. A name afficionado friend, who has FANTASTIC taste in names, is going to use it if she has a daughter.
Anyway... what a difference a day (and night) makes! To start with, hubby vetoed Aven and could not be convinced to consider it. So, I had to move on and let it go. (I have learnt from experience that he can not be convinced to like a name!) Besides, I have come to the conclusion that Theodora is much closer to what I am looking for.
Next batter up... I proposed that if we named our daughter Theodora he could call her Thea as a nickname. (As you may recall, Thea is one of only 2 names he has actually suggested in all these months!) Well surprise, surprise! He really likes this suggestion! At last, a way through the impasse! I am VERY happy. A strong, uncommon, interesting name with a soft, pretty nickname.
I actually only thought of Theodora yesterday, but last night I realised that years ago I heard of Theodora Richards (daughter of Rolling Stone Keith Richards) and admired the name as strong and interesting. For some reason I had just not thought of the name since I've been pregnant.
Now, I know some of you have repeated my observation that Thea Leaf does not work as a name, but in my opinion her name will be Theodora Leaf - Thea is just a nickname - which to me does work.
As for Edith, it may not work perfectly, but Edith is the name of his wonderful maternal grandmother AND my beloved maternal grandmother, so we really want to use it. In my experience, it is VERY rare to have to say your entire name in one go, so the instances where our child would have to say "Theodora Violet Edith Leaf" are few and far between, and anyway to my ear the Edith Leaf bit actually sounds good!
Violet, by the way, would be in there because both of us really love this name, and would definitely have it as a first name if it wasn't for the Leaf surname. (I hear that Violet is becoming quite popular in the US, but here in NZ I have not heard of even one, and it is totally absent from the official name stats.)
So, this means we are now sorted for both a girl's name AND a boy's name (Benjamin Marshall Otto - Benjamin after my father, grandfather and great-grandfather, Marshall after hubby's maternal grandfather, and Otto after my maternal grandfather - all names we like, and we love the idea of honouring relatives we have a special bond with). Now, if we can just continue loving Theodora for the next 3 months... Crossing fingers!!
Funnily enough, I think that I may actually like Theodora even more than those on my original list of names! Hubby being so fussy made me really think outside of the box. Which I guess just goes to prove Laura's point about Sharing The Choice - the process of finding a name together and agreeing on it, can be so rewarding! I will be so happy if we can tell our children that we BOTH chose their names.
Thanks again for all your help! I have been reading this blog and the comments for months now, and will continue to do so. So many valuable insights and suggestions!
Mu husband and I were "D" -- we both brought names to the table, both researched popularity, both explained to each other the "feel" we were seeking in a name. In fact, I just blogged about the veto power we exercised over each others' choices:
http://takingcareofbaby.blogspot.com/2009/06/naming-style.html
You may recall that he vetoed my beloved "@lice Dorothe@" because it sounded like we were trying too hard to be urban intellectuals. I nixed his Gil, Amos, and Roscoe.
It was important that we both love the name. It the first of many child-rearing questions we approached in a truly egalitarian manner.
I did exert pressure in the choice of the LAST name, however: he and I have different last names, and I was insistent that we hyphenate them to form the children's last name. He thought a hyphen would be too clunky, but I was heartbroken at the idea of the kids not having a visible connection to me. I knew I would feel terrible about it, because I feel bad enough when I take the dog to the vet. The dog has a different last name than me, and I feel like the vet's office doesn't think of me as the "real" owner.
Anyway, the kids have a hyphenated last name. I should probably change the dog's name, too. :)
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