The Baby Name Wizard

Precisely why I didn't name my son the same as his dad or even the same first with different middle name-TOO much hassle and didn't really like it anyway. I love my DH but he is more than just his name and thankfully he agreed.

My husband and I agreed we would honor deceased (and only deceased) relatives in the middle name spot by using the real name of the person. (First names would be unique to the kid.)

A girl would have Katherine (spelling reflected my grandmother, but the name also encompassed his grandmother). A boy would have Walter (his grandfather). If we'd had more than one kid, I think we would have continued this form of honoring a loved one and connecting our kid to his/her family.

Re: Tobey Maguire's son, I love Otis. It sounds great with Ruby!

Unfortunately for me, I must agree with Anna that using the actual name has a sort of pure and direct relationship that other derivations of the name do not. I prefer it as well. Why is that unfortunate for me? Well, everyone in my family is Ann or Robert... as is just about everyone in dh's family as well. This dilemma actually raises another point- if my dh, my dad, both of my grandfathers, and both of my dh's grandfathers are named Robert and I attempt to use the name Robert (first or middle, doesn't matter) for my son, who, exactly, am I honoring? I almost feel as though there are TOO many to even honor one.

"Oh, dad, this was in honor of you.... and grandpa... and dh's grandpa..." etc. etc. etc.

Has anyone else run in to this problem?

OT - I just came across a name in an email (a joke email that was forwarded to many people including me and this person) - Alexis Z!ssis (! = i).

How hard is that to say? And how I long to send her an email and ask her about her name! (I'm curious as to whether it's her birth name or married name, etc).

Re: tribute naming:

My mother-in-law brought up the issue when her brother attempted to name his daughter after her. Her name is Olive (now remember this is before Olive was considered "hipster" cool). She flat out told him, "That is a cruel thing to do to a little girl." They went with Olivia instead. So for us, the consideration in naming our daughter is how to include a reference to my MIL (and my own mother) without using the names that they themselves dislike. They have both said that they would feel equally "honoured" by a more creative reference compared to an exact copy. Isn't it the intention that carries the meaning?

BTW, In this case we're considering as middle names: Sinead or Seanait for my mom (Janet) and Olwen or Orlaith for my MIL (Olive).

I totally agree with Anna, although I can see AK's point. If my son said to me, "We wanted to name our daughter Jane after you, but we didn't want the practical problems of her having the exact same name / my wife has Jewish beliefs that prevent us giving her your exact name / we think Anna is a more modern name but it does have the same etymology and some of the same letters", then I would UNDERSTAND but I would not FEEL as though this child Anna was really named after me - it feels like a totally different name and not related to mine at all. It seems just a token gesture with a tenuous link. As Emilyrae said, it would feel as if they were saying they wanted to honour me, but not enough to do it properly, LOL!

We have decided that if we have a daughter, we will give her the middle name Edith, after our maternal grandmothers (who, by happy coincidence, bear the same first name). I like the name Edith but my husband does not. Way back, I suggested half-heartedly that we could perhaps try to find a similar name that was more appealing, but he straight away said "But then we're not naming our child after our grandmothers at all, are we?" I have the same instinctive feeling about it.

And as Liz & Louka said, "If you really dislike a person's name, why would you choose that way of honouring them?" I have to agree!

My feeling is, if you want to honour someone, but don't like their name (or have beliefs that prevent you using their name, or think that for practical reasons it's not a good idea) then give your child the person's middle name, or their nickname, or even THEIR mother's name or father's name. This seems more sincere to me. I don't think the name has to be the same as the honoured person's first name, but as Emilyrae said, "it is only when the namesake appears to bear little or no resemblence to the one being honored that i sort of scratch my head." I agree. If you call your daughter Theodora after your grandfather Theodore, then that is clearly in honour of him. But if you called your daughter Theresa and claimed you were honouring Theodore by choosing a name starting with the same three letters, then that link would seem pretty meaningless to me. Just my personal opinion though.

Re the situation where the person being honoured doesn't like their name - I know 2 examples where this has happened. 1) Muriel didn't like her name - granddaughter was given the middle name Mariel. It was what Muriel had always said she wished she was called! 2) Mildred hated her name and always went by the name Millie. Her great-granddaughter was given the first name Millie. Both examples still clearly honour the person intended but also take into account that the honoured person would not want their name "inflicted" on anyone else!

i would like to acknowledge that probably my point of view on this issue is the more selfish one...if i were a bit of a better person, i would probably be happy that i was chosen to be honored in even a small way, no matter how vague (as someone said, it is the sentiment that matters). however, i just do not think i would feel that the child was really named after me (always assuming of course that the two names had only a slight connection).

i just wanted to acknowledge the inherently selfish qualities of my feelings!

also, i only ever think of honoring someone in the middle name, so (for me) the issues of having another person in the family with the same first name are moot, as are the issues of naming your child something awful. in the middle name slot, it is not going to cause confusion, and any unsightly names would be hidden from almost everyone. so, for my purposes, my thought is, "why WOULDN'T i use the actual name?" i can't think of any. however, this is stictly MY feelings; i understand not everyone's situation is this cut-and-dried. and of course who knows how i'll feel when i'm actually having children (quite a long way in the future).

also, just for fun, i was thinking of the "worst" namesakes in my family that i could use:
orville (great-grandfather)
edith (great-grandmother, though i really don't think this one is so bad)
geraldine (grandmother--incidentally, she was named after a gerald)

some of the best ones are probably:
david (father)
richard (grandfather)
sally (grandmother)

My middle name is Ellen, and I was surprised and delighted when my daughter Catherine named her first child, my first grandchild, Sarah Ellen. Now Sarah is grown up, will be married in the fall, and is looking forward to having children of her own. She hopes to have a daughter named Elena Catherine after our mutual middle name Ellen and her mother. Elena and Ellen aren't exactly the same name, but close enough that I would feel very honored to have a little Elena in the family someday.

I've been thinking some more about the honouring question and why I am not too fond of modified names (as in Jaina for Jane):
In a way, I consider someone's name to be sacred: you can't just change it to suit your own taste. Say, if I met someone named Roberta, it would be the height of rudeness to say "Hi Roberta, I don't really like your name, so I'll call you Bobbie instead?!". But if Roberta herself had established the nickname Bobbie, it would perfectly legitimate to use it both in addressing her as well as for honouring her.

I don't apply my "scrabble" rule in 2-for-1 honouring. Scrabbling to combine names has an "honourable" purpose unlike modifying a name to better suit taste.

Examples: I think Joni is beautiful choice for honouring Joseph and Nicole. Joni comprises two significant sounds in Joseph and Nicole, and makes a clearly independent name (I think). Joel doesn't do nearly as good a job (I think), because while it takes the 'Jo' from Joseph, the 'le' from Nicole is much more insignificant, not to mention that it's backwards. Even worse (I think) is Penny derived from Joseph and Nicole. It takes the 'p' out of the digraph 'p' and 'ni' is re-spelt 'ny', and there's really not much left of the original names.

back again for more chat about bnw2. after my disappointing visit to borders yesterday, where i learned our store doesn't have any plans to purchase this book, i e-mailed amazon, and received their reply this morning. it was long and somewhat convoluted, but what they seemed to be saying was that they didn't, at this time, know anything about bnw2. i'm becoming increasingly worried that that having the same isbn on both editions is going to cause significant problems.
after viewing the 4th of july parade in our soggy town, i'm off to another bookstore to check on the availability there. has anyone found a bookstore that will definitely have copies in on tuesday?

The way BNW2 shows up on chapters.indigo.ca is very weird too-

http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/books/search?keywords=baby%20name%20wizard...

Guess I'll just have to keep checking back at Chapters! Our local independent bookseller doesn't stock the first one and never did, so I assume it's the same this time around.

Laura-You said the NEW edition has a distinctive "red circle" on the cover. When I looked on Amazon.com yesterday, I saw the NEW book pictured but it didn't make it clear that it was a different edition (New or revised). I am curious as to whether one should order the copy listed as NEW but really meaning "never used" in hopes that it would be the correct copy. However, I don't really want the hassle of sending it back if its not. Sigh!

Anna-I think you DID apply your "scrabble rule" to combining names. You stated Joni was better than Joel which was better than Penny. I agree, but to each their own is the bottom line. How do you feel about initials for honoring? I almost did that with my dd. If person has ABC for initials could you name newborn with same initials and feel it was honoring? It sure does open up a lot of possibilities.

This discussion of honoring people through name choices is really interesting. I think modified names work only if they are somehow agreed-upon between the honoree and the namer-- for instance, the examples above of folks not liking their name or having nicknames that work well as names.

One of my pet peeves with names is when people take it upon themselves (especially people who are not especially close to you) to change the name you identify yourself as to them. The biggest example that comes up in my experience is with my husband, whose name is Jamie. I have work colleagues who insist on referring to him as James. His name isn't James. Jamie isn't a nickname for anything. He was christened J-A-M-I-E, I have never referred to him as anything but Jamie when talking with colleagues, and they seem to think that they're being polite or formal or *something* by calling him James. (As in, "How is James doing?" "Say hello to James for me," etc.) I don't think I would think someone was "honoring" him by naming their child James instead of Jamie or at least it *REALLY* would not feel like the same name to me at all.

Zoerhenne - I think the "scrabble rule" meant scrabbling prohibited in the first instalment, but I do allow scrabbling in combining*. But yes, it did become confusing.

*Actually, 2-in-1 honouring is a fun challenge, I think.

Initials: I think this is a fine way of honouring. It's different from passing on one name (modified or not) but it gives you the possibility to choose unique names, which I like. Again, the rule for me is that you should stick to it, meaning the honouree A.B.C. should be honoured with these exact initials and no wild-cards (e.g. A.X.C.). If you are limited by a different last name, then A.B. is still OK (but I still think A.B.C. makes a stronger impact).

slk34 - my guess is that these people don't know your husbands name isn't James and that they're merely trying to be formal. Annoying - yes, but understandable considering how common the name James nn Jamie is. Of course, *one* correction should be enough.

In all other cases I completely agree with you. If Christina goes by Christina, then you address her as Christina. Not Chris, Stinie, or whatever other derivative there is.

Laura, and everyone -- this is the response I got from Amazon.com -- >

"Thanking for letting us know that, author of this item not going to release new ISBN for this book instead they are going to supply a new edition one the retailer go out of stock with this item.

I do understand that, you want to have a new edition of this book. As this item is going to release by July. I am sure that, we replace this item with the revised edition by the month of August.

In this case, you can place an order for this item on August. So we can ensure that you will receive the new release of this item.

We thank you for your understanding in this matter, and thank you for shopping at Amazon.com."

Best regards,

Revathi A.
Amazon.com
We're Building Earth's Most Customer-Centric Company

---- Original message: ----

07/03/09 10:53:02
The author "The Baby Name Wizard" (Laura Wattenberg) has come out with a revised edition that I would like to order.

Can you help? The book is due out in July and I'd really rather not have to go to the bookstore to look for it -- that's what Amazon.com is for, right?

Hi! I've been lurking on this board for a while now but haven't posted before. We just found out we're expecting our second, so we've started discussing names. Our last name is one syllable and very common, so I'd like to avoid very common first names so there aren't a hundred people with the same name. Also names ending in "-lie" or making an adverb (Frank, Evan, Drew etc.) are out. Our first is named Amelia and she has a Hawaiian middle name. My husband came up with her name (although it was on my list as well) and I suggested the middle name. Now he wants to keep with the Hawaiian middle name theme for our 2nd, and said he really wants Kilohana ("unsurpassed") for a boy. I'm not so sure because it seems like that would really limit our first name options. I don't feel as strongly about keeping the middle name Hawaiian (we're not Hawaiian, we just like Hawaii) but if we did, I like Noelani for a girl since it's similar to our daughter's mn which also ends in -lani.

The difficulty is that our styles are very different. Usually I come up with a list of names and then he shoots them all down rather than coming up with a list of his own (wasn't this discussed recently?). He really doesn't want a name with any potential for playground teasing. He likes names like Alexander which I think are too boring/common (although I wouldn't mind it as a mn). Also the NE-type names that I like meet with a lot of scorn. Our typical naming discussion goes like this:
"Veronica?" "No way, I don't want my daughter to be a vixen!"
"Juniper?" "What baby name book are you reading? We should tear it up right now!"
"Felix? Milo?" "Those are cat names! Why don't you just pick Morris?"
"Linus?" "Haven't you ever read Peanuts? OMG, he would be teased mercilessly. You might as well just name him Anus!" (that really made me laugh)
Although I have to add that this is coming from a guy who wanted to name our first Samantha Rocket!

I should mention that I don't like names like Aiden/Jayden/Caden/Braden (too popular/annoying and I don't like names that have too many spelling variations), Ryan/Brandon/Jason (too bratty), Michael/William/Robert/Richard (too boring/common), Josh/Chris/Mark (jock names), Kevin/Calvin/Stephen/David/Lawrence (nerdy boy names), Jennifer/Christina/Miranda (cheerleader names), Chloe/Zoe (too "trendy" yet popular), Taylor/Jordan/Parker (unisex names), Makayla/Madelyn/Nevaeh (too kre8tiv). I like vintage chic names and hipster names, but they also have to pass the "Doctor" test--as much as I like cutesy granny names, she'd never be taken seriously if she introduced herself as "Doctor Maisie". Sorry if I offend anyone with those names, I'm just trying to give you a taste of our style preferences! I am not suggesting that everyone with those names fits those labels, I'm just trying to give you some insight into what my personal naming taste is based on my own perceptions.

So far we both like Violet, Mirabelle, and Clara for a girl, but we're coming up short for boys. I like Jonah Alexander for a boy but my husband pretty lukewarm ("wouldn't he be scared of swimming in the ocean?"). I can't think of anything that goes with Kilohana except maybe James but I don't like that name. I like Charlotte Noelani for a girl, but I'm not in love with it (I just think it goes well with Amelia).

Any suggestions for suitable names? We have eight months to figure it out...but it might just take that long to agree on one! By the way, our names are Natalie and Theodore (hope no one we know is reading this, because we're not ready to announce yet!) Thanks for your help and sorry for such a long post!

emilyrae, no worries about being selfish. I think we all are a bit on these things, and perhaps should be. I think you raised a good point about our opinions varying based on how we approach this. I agree that if we are honoring with middle names, I'm open to a wider range of options than if I was looking for a first. And since I'm primarily interesting in honoring people who are no longer with us, I have to admit that their opinion on the issue had never factored into my thinking!

Anyway, it does seem like people have different opinions on this - some people would feel honored by variations and some wouldn't. The catch is that it's not something you would necessarily know someone's opinion on until you ask - and it's a tricky thing to ask.

goldenpig-You've made it tough but I'm gonna give it a shot. Here goes:
Max (in all its forms); Adam
Adrian; Dominic; Gilbert; Everett
Benjamin; Aaron; Caleb
Elijah; Andrew; Asher
Jasper; Gabriel; Vincent
Quentin; Charles; Noah
Luke/Lucas; Samuel

Do any of those hit anywhere close to being good?

Goldenpig - inspired by the ongoing discussion of honouring: What about Nathan and Theodora?

BTW, I think your labels are a little harsh. Despite my middle name categorising me as bitchy cheerleader, I'm working on becoming a Dr.

Goldenpig- your comments got me thinking just how personal people's experiences with names are.

For instance, I have known more "nerds" than "jocks" named Mark and Josh, have known frat guys named Kevin, and no far to many women named Christine and Jennifer for them to fall exclusively under the "bitchy cheerleader" category.

I'd like to help you, but even though you provided much detail about your preferences by listing types of names you don't like -- for me that made making suggestions more difficult!

Anna, I'm sorry if it seemed my labels were too harsh. As I said I'm not trying to insult anyone with those names, I was trying to give some insight into my personal preferences. Aybee, I think you're totally right about past personal experiences coloring our name perceptions. Most of those names on the list stemmed from negative experiences I had with others with those names. For example, I'd never use Yvonne because even though it's a perfectly nice name, it was the name of someone who used to tease me in junior high. And I think a lot of the time my husband rejects names I suggest (like Felix), it's because of previous associations he has with people with those names. That doesn't mean that everyone with that name fits those labels. I'll edit my previous post to make it less offensive. Sorry!

Zoerhenne, I like your name suggestions. I love Max but it's already the name of our cat. I love Noah--it was the boy name I picked for our daughter. My husband really likes Andrew (although I don't like the nn Drew). I like Benjamin a lot but my husband said it's too "nice guy". I like Luke/Lucas but one syllable L names would be too alliterative with our last name. Adam, Dominic, Gabriel, Vincent, Samuel--all names of cousins or our friend's kids, so might be a little too close to use. I like Everett, Jasper and Elijah but I think my husband would nix them. Anna, as far as "honoring" names, I love and would consider using my mom's name as a mn (Josephine) but then MIL would feel left out so that wouldn't be good. I have thought of using Dorothea, but I think Theodora is too close and would be confusing. I don't care for Nathan. I do think it would be a little strange for one kid to have a parent-similar name but not the other, so I think we'll try to pick a different letter other than T or N.

Here are some other names I've considered:
Boy
Jonah
Felix
Zachary
Noah
Henry
Julian
Owen
Graham
Grant
Jacob
Dexter (I know this is nerdy but I like the nn Dex)
Oliver (but not Ollie)
Harrison (but not Harry)
Dashiell nn Dash
Maximillian nn Max (used on our cat already)
Milo
Lincoln

Girl
Juniper nn Junie
Charlotte
Clara
Lucy
Hannah
Olivia
Violet
Juliet/Juliana
Audrey
Mirabelle
Delphine
Clementine
Zora
Evangeline nn Evie
Ruby
Pearl
Stella
Cordelia nn Delia
Delilah nn Lila
Helena
Ava

Middle names
Alexander
Kilohana
Christopher
Josephine
Jane
Noelani
Leilani
Evangeline
Emmeline
Seraphina
Poppy
Celeste
Elizabeth

Maybe this "like" list would help you more than my "do not like" list. Although I know that hubby would veto (or has vetoed) a good portion of this list already!

PS: here's my husband's list from the last baby: Alexander, Andrew. Samantha, Amelia, Violet, Alexandria. Not much to go on!

@alr--I agree with you on the multiple honorees thing! If we have a son, he would have 1 grandfather, 1 great-grandfather, 1 uncle, 1 great-uncle, and a couple of cousins all named James (on both sides of the family).

I like the name James, but doubt that we would ever use it (unless as a middle name), because first of all it would be hard to narrow down which James we were honoring, and secondly the plethora of James and Jims is already confusing!!

sarah smile,
thank you for not thinking i am selfish. :]
i do really think it's just a complicated subject and that there are good points on both sides.

goldenpig, your name labels made me think about how very much people's perception of a name can vary. for example, i do not (at all) think of david as a nerd name, nor do i think of jennifer as a cheerleader name. it's just interesting how very different the same name can seem to two different people.

as far as name suggestions for you, it's a tough one. i'll throw a few out there:

julius/julian
simon
maxwell/maximilian/maxim/maximo/maximus, etc
oliver
jasper
caspar (though if your husband doesn't like the cat associatios of felix, then i doubt he'd like the ghost associations here)
sebastian
silas/cyrus
august
alistair/alasdair
leo/leopold/leon/leonardo
quinten

(zoerhenne, sorry if there were repeats, i know you posted a list above, but i can't remember exactly what you put)
(oh, and i think it is probably unlikely that a boy named jonah would grow up to be afraid to swim in the ocean simply because of his name. i know a little jonah who is definitely not afraid!)

goldenpig,
just read your new lists--i like your taste!

(are you still looking for girl name ideas? or do you think you are okay in that area?)

Goldenpig, I apologise for the snappy self-defence. I quite like the level of respect we show each other here, even when we disagree.

The names you have listed seem to fall in a category I'd call "old English classics", especially the girls' names. There are also a few "modern classics" among the boys' names. Does your husband have a similar style? It's sometimes a bit easier when you have defined your style so you know what you're looking for.

Emilyrae,
Thanks for your suggestions! I love Julian/Julius, Oliver, Caspar (or Caspian), and Augustus (not crazy about Gus though). I think they may be too "out there" for my husband though. I've considered Quintan or Crispin but they may be too unusual even for me. I love Leonardo but Leo wouldn't work with our last name. I think Simone is a great girls name.

I would love suggestions for both boys and girls. My girl list is longer because last time we found out the sex of our daughter in advance (plus I just KNEW she was a girl even before we found out). Although, I don't like the idea of giving her a name we passed over for Amelia (which is why Samantha is probably out). This time, when I was planning to make the announcement to my husband, I bought a "Big Sister" shirt for my girl and a matching "Little Sister" onesie for the baby for when she's born. The clerk asked, "Oh, you have two girls?" and I realized that I don't know and shouldn't assume it's a girl!

Anna,
Sorry again for my name labels...I think I was being just a little too glib. I'd probably get upset if someone said "I hate the name Natalie" or something like that too. And congrats on your career choice...it's mine too.

I'm not exactly sure what my husband's naming style is since he never gives me long lists. As far as I can tell, for boys he likes classic/timeless names that don't stand out, like Alex and Andrew. He likes feminine sounding names like Violet and Alexandria. Oh, one other name he said he likes is Catherine (although I don't like the nn Cathy). He doesn't like nicknames at all though. I like to call my daughter Mia because that's what she calls herself (she can't pronounce her name yet), but he can't stand that. We both like to use the traditional spellings of names. I like vintagey names and names that are more hip/unusual than Jack, Bob, Sarah, etc. but not necessarily TOO weird or crazy or trendy or popular. I liked Emma and Ella and Sophia and Isabelle, but not anymore now that everyone's using them. I want to have a name that others will think "Cool!" rather than "Hmm..." or "ugh!". In other words I want our child to stand out a little...but not too much!

Goldenpig,

Have you tried Nymbler? You can start with your daughter's name and your favourite and see what comes up.

Namipedia's suggestions for siblings to Amelia:

Alexandra Amanda Andrea Barnaby Benjamin Bridget Caden Charlotte* Elizabeth Eric Evan Hannah Isaac James Katherine Madeline Matilda* Matthew* Noah Olivia Owen Phoebe Simon Thomas William

*My favourites with Amelia.

I quite like the subtle A-M alliteration with Amelia and Matthew/Matilda.

Another thing, you've mentioned a couple of names where you like the name but not one of the common nicknames (e.g. Catherine - Cathy). I think it is entirely possible to avoid these nicknames by stating the name as "Catherine, nn Cate" or "Catherine, she goes by her full name".

slk40 - My father does this too, with my friend's son Tommy - Dad insists on calling him Thomas. He thinks it is a cute/quirky thing to do, calling Tommy by his "real", formal name rather than the "nickname" that everyone else calls him. I told him not to do it, but he only stopped once I swore to him that Tommy is Tommy on his birth certificate. Dad just couldn't believe it. This had never occured to him, it seems. Maybe the same is true of your colleagues and the Jamie/James thing.

Anna/goldenpig-Its interesting about Namipedia giving Eric and Phoebe as sibling matches because I was just about to suggest them. My dd is Natalie and my ds is Eric so that might work for you. Phoebe is just a name that I "think would go" with Amelia. Oh and just so you know, the suggestions I gave earlier were with Nymbler help. I put in your favs of Violet, Mirabelle, Clara and then added Amelia. I only searched for boys and took out ones I thought your DH would veto. The only other idea I have right now is Xavier or Phillip. Btw, my ds was almost Zachary Alexander so good combo there LOL! Good luck!

goldenpig - your categories of names cracked me up. So funny how we all see names so differently - I have a totally different impression of most of those names, so it really made me laugh. But at least now we know what names to rule out for you!
Violet, Mirabelle, and Clara are all lovely choices for girls, and would all work well with Amelia. I especially love Violet although I am sad to see it becoming popular. Your hunt for a boy's name has me stumped though. How about you sit down at a computer with your husband and play around on Nymbler. Have you used it before? You type in names you like, and ask it for further suggestions. See if there is something that appeals to both of you. Your husband sounds like my husband (so many similar comments!), and Nymbler helped us to find a name we both liked, after 6 months of fruitless dicussions! I think it may help that the suggestions are coming from a computer program, and not from you ;)
NB I would strongly recommend doing it together, as there is nothing worse than falling in love with a name, thinking about it for hours and getting your heart set on it, then having your husband veto it. Been there many times!!

Oh yes, Nymbler. I haven't done that one in a while so I should go back and check it out. The other one I used to play with was Baby Name Genie which was hilarious. I do like Phoebe a lot, as well as Penelope. Matilda is sweet. I like Xavier too. Eric and Matthew may warrant consideration (what about Warren?). Phillip would remind my husband of Dr. Phil so that's not an option though :) Leafy, I think many husbands are like that. It's easier to shoot down suggestions than come up with your own. They tend not to be so name-obsessed or aware of the latest trends. And they're often much more traditional/conservative with their naming preferences.

"NB I would strongly recommend doing it together, as there is nothing worse than falling in love with a name, thinking about it for hours and getting your heart set on it, then having your husband veto it. Been there many times!!"

Ha ha ha! So true! Guilty as charged. BTW, congrats on your upcoming baby and I like your name choice, especially the combo with Violet (as you can see I'm partial to that name, as well as my husband's Theodore).

hey back on the karen thingy.
what about taren or taryn as a tribute???

For a Karen variation/ tribute, what about Kara, Karina (multiple spellings), or Carys? Somehow, I want to pick names with a strong beginning "kar-" sound, rather than names that end similarly ("-ren").

goldenpig,

I am currently brainstorming for baby #2 as well and our tastes are very similar! I have also been trying to talk my husband into Dexter because I love the nn Dex (so far, my husband still hates it). Have you thought about Declan nn Dex? That is one I had considered but I don't like how it sounds with our last name.

Golden Pig

Another Hawaiian middle name that you could add to your list is Koa. I understand it means "Brave, bold, fearless." It is the name of a native Hawaiian tree. Of course, there is always Kai, Hawaiian for "the sea."

I've been thinking about using the name Oona/Una (due to our initials, we would use the double-o spelling). I'm worried it might be too fanciful...but on the other hand, maybe it fits right in with the vowel-heavy Emma/Ella/Isla/Ava/Ada aesthetic. What do you all think?

Peony - the only Oona I can name (without Google'ing it) is Oona Chaplin. I don't know if that is a good, bad or irrelevant reference to you? I guess Oona fits the beginning-with-a-vowel trend but it still seems "different" from the usual Ava/Emma/Isla's. Perhaps that's just because the name is very rare, perhaps it's because O-names in general are more rare(*), or perhaps it's because there are not so many Scottish/Irish/Gaelic name among the other Ava/Emma/Isla's?

*Voyager says (2009, girls) 60000/mio A-names, 23000/mio E-names, 8500/mio I-names, 4000/mio O-names, 1200/mio Y-names.

I quite like the name - it's different (I like different) but I don't think it's fanciful. I see it as a "medium strong" name rather than "cute" (don't like cute). I prefer the spelling Oona over Una for the irrational reason that I don't really like U's. It's one of the few cases where I like the original Scottish/Irish/Gaelic spelling (Oonagh) as well, but that's because it's fairly close to the anglicised spelling.

Back to the topic of the new edition of the book, I just spoke with someone at Amazon and wanted to pass on what I learned.

The customer service rep said there was no indication in their system that there was a new edition of the book coming out. He also tried to tell me that publishers *always* issue a new ISBN for new editions of books and was quite flabbergasted when I insisted that this was not the case for this book.

In any case, he is going to alert the IT department to see if/how/when they plan to update the book detail page and if there will be a way to specifically order the new edition. He suggested checking back later this week to see if they had solved the issue.

They currently have 350 copies of the (presumably) old edition in stock and do have a purchase order that will go out this week for new stock. However, he said since the ISBN is the same, there is no way to know if they will still get the old edition or if they will get the new edition.

He cautioned that it could be "quite a mess" for some time, even after they receive some new copies. If they can't figure out how to isolate the different editions in their system, some people could receive the old book and some the new one, due to whatever stock they shipped from when someone places an order.

I've also emailed a few other booksellers, in addition to the publisher directly, as I am very excited to purchase the new book! I have about two months left before my new daughter is due and we are still stuck without a name, so I'm feeling a bit time-crunched!

Thanks again Laura!

Did the gecko explain its reasons for not giving the new edition a new ISBN?

I think Karena (whatever spelling you want, but making as close to the spelling of the one honored) would be a great honor for Karen-- I think of Karina = "Little Karen" (and would cause less confusion if Karen is alive). This is actually the name I thought of when you first posted.

Laura-Who is the publisher btw, maybe we all could order it directly? Or those of us "in the business" could atleast do so?

Peony, I know a Korean woman named Eunah, pronounced oo-na. So that's another possible spelling. I'm not sure if it's a common enough name in Korea for people to think your daughter is Korean, but I doubt it would be a problem. I do know another Korean woman who named her young daughter Yuna (yoo-na), which I actually slightly prefer).

goldenpig-How about:
Colin
Gregory
Isaac
Nolan
Seth
Tristan

i'm beginning to feel very sorry for you, laura. the decision on the part of your publisher to put the isbn from bnw1 on bnw2 is a problem that will, seemingly, cut into your revenues. of course, it will cut into your publishers, also.
i've still not found any bookstores that will have copies available on tuesday. if anyone finds a store that has them, will you please post the name and contact information? thanks,
connie

The discussion on tribute naming is fabulous and very timely for my husband and I. We are considering naming our son Harold for my husband's grandfather. We would call him 'Hank,' which I realize is not derived from the name Harold- but it's close enough for us.

One wrinkle in this scheme is that now that the name Henry is on the rise- will there be a lot of little Hanks running around in a couple of years? As a Jen/Jenny/Jennifer- I'm a bit neurotic about these kinds of things. Any thoughts on this would be much appreciated! Thanks!

Popularity of Henry:

Henry is one of those popular "rediscoveries" for which we all seem to be anticipating a soaring comeback very soon. However, the truth is Henry never really went that far away. Henry is on the rise, yes, but still only twice as popular today as it was 30 years ago - when it was at its all-time low. And the popularity of Jennifer only very recently dipped below that of Henry, by the way!

If any name has a shot at become the "new Jennifer" I'll put my money on the joint forces of Aidan, Jayden and their rhymey mates. I tip Henry to do a smooth run up the popularity scale and then stay somewhere in the comfortable middle.

27 Jennifers--
I would think not many of the Henry's would be nicknamed "Hank". But, even if a high percentage, say half, of Henry's were called Hank I don't think it would approach the Jennifer phenomenon :).

Peony - I went to school with a girl called Una (pronounced Oo-na) and I have to admit that while she was a nice enough girl, I have never been fond of the name. To me it just sounds so unappealing. Maybe it has been ruined for me because all the kids would tease her saying "Oooooo Una" like the "oooooo" that kids say when they think something is gross.
I also know an old lady called Una but pronounced "You-na" or "U-na".
Both of these Una's have problems with people saying the first syllable of their name incorrectly.

27 Jennifers - I have had the same thought about Henry. It hasn't been out of the Top 200 in the US for over 100 years, so it has always been pretty popular, but it does seem to be on a steady upswing again - and the last time that happened, it got to the Top 10! (And stayed there for 30 years.) I can see us heading towards a Top 10 divided between classics like Henry, William and Alexander, and modern hits like Jayden, Brayden and Kaden.

Off topic - does anyone know someone called Persephone? And if so, what is their nickname? I like the name but am not sure what nicknames a girl called Persephone would get. Persy? Seph? Phony?!!!