The Baby Name Wizard

Cuest#228- I was thinking of the author, Roald Dahl.. So how about Dahlton. It is nms, but it might get you where you want to be with your little Dahl! And,btw, do you think Roald is missing an "N"?!

Dall-ton, pronounced like Dallas, sounds like someone with a Southern accent.

Doesn't Alton Brown (who is from Georgia) pronounce his name like the name Al? (Or maybe just his sister does on the show.)

So maybe the solution is to spell it Dalton, and then move to Georgia!!

PPP-thanks for clarifying. It's an interesting name!

emilyrae/others - For what it's worth, I like Adelaide too! Now I'm wondering which of *my* current favorites are dainty or flowery to others! haha (Emmanuelle comes to mind with those extended endings..)

daisy_kay - I like Atticus Charles, Frederick, and Francesca.

Guest - If I understand correctly, you want Dalton, but pronounced 'Dall-ton', as in Dallas, and your interest in spelling is about achieving that pronunciation. I don't think there's a spelling that will clarify it. I would use the spelling Dalton and pronounce it the way you want.

I adore the name Calvin! It is such a strong and classic name for a boy. The nickname Cal is adorable as well.

You know, I wasn't that worried about the popularity issue with Sophia until MIL (Linda) complained how much she hated having eight Lindas in her high school class. Then again, I guess Linda was more popular then than Sophia is now, as someone mentioned. And DH (David) said he didn't at all care about sharing his name with others...I guess it just depends on your personality. I've never really shared my name with others (except as their middle name), so I can't really speak from experience here.

I did like Mia better than Mira but DH didn't, though he can't really say why. Also like Juliet but would probably use Julia instead because I think Juliet in the play wasn't a great role model...maybe that's weird.

In the end, I just kind of feel like anything else we choose is always going to have been our second choice after Sophia...but MIL is so against popular names, and I don't want our daughter to run into the same problems she did, which is why I'm second-guessing it. Certainly Sophia has lost the "Oh, what a lovely name!" factor that it might have had twenty years ago.

Daisy-Kay - I love your name options. Very nice. To go with your son, I like these best (but do like all your options):

Boys:
Ambrose William*
Atticus Charles*
Gareth William
Louis Theodore*
Phineas John
Reuben Daniel

Girls:
Eloise Violet*
Gwendolyn Eloise or Gwendolyn Rosalie (find Rose too common as a middle)
Louisa Charlotte*
Mabel Adeline

* favourites

PPP - glad to hear you are back on track. Love Fionavar or Aoibheann best as first names. Then Saoirse. I don't care for Sorcha as I find the pronunciation difficult (and I quite like Gaelic names and pronunciations).

With the middles:
Fionavar Verity
Fionavar Avalon*
Fionavar Olwen

Aiobheann Serenity
Aiobheann Firinne*
Aiobheann Sinead

Saorise Verity
Saorise Serenity*
Saorise Firinne*
Saorise Olwen

* favourites

GoldenPig - I love your options too. I think I like the idea of a Hawaiian middle name best but the combos that appeal the most to me are:

Jonah Alexander Lee
Jonah Kilohana Lee*
Jacob Augustus Lee
Abraham Jasper Lee* would also like with Kilohana as a middle
James Kilohana Lee

Girl

Audrey Noelani Lee
Noelani Jane Lee*
Clementine Poppy Lee*
Matilda Celeste Lee
Cordelia Kate Lee*
Juliet Delphine Lee*
All the girl combos would also go nicely with a Hawaiian middle.
Many of your first names run into the last name 'Lee' in an odd way for me. For example Violet Lee, sounds like 'violently'. Noah, Grant, James, Clara have a similar effect. The longer names seem to work better.

* favourites

marie,
i agree that you should go for sophia if you both love it. it's a beautiful name, and i frankly, i agree with whoever said that a number one name just isn't what it used to be. in other words, sure she'll probably run into another sophia, but there aren't going to be eight in her class. number one names just used to have much, much higher numbers. i'd go for it, if i were you.

Guest at #288 - I wouldn't know whether to pronounce Dhaltin (and the other suggestions with an "a" in them) with a soft or hard "a", but if it were spelt Dellton or Delton I would get it straight away. Would this spelling get the pronunciation you want?

Sorry, I meant Guest #228!!

"Violet Juniper Lee* (just because Leafy can't LOL)"

Oh you are SO cruel!! LOL!

I will die of envy if someone actually names their child Violet Juniper.

Marie - I share your pain about the huge popularity of Sophia at the moment. It has been my #1 favourite girl's name for years, and I have had so much trouble letting go of it. I was determined to name my daughter Sophia regardless of the popularity, until things started happening like 1) I went to a child's birthday party and 3 of the girls were called Sophia or Sophie, 2) I picked my niece up from school and learnt that there are 2 Sophias in her class alone, and several more in her year, 3) I keep hearing the name Sophia called out in cafes/parks/supermarkets, 4) a friend and a cousin both mentioned that Sophia is also their first choice of name, and if they have a girl they will probably use it. It has now lost the special feeling I had about it. It is no longer "my daughter's name", now it is everyone else's daughter's name!! Completely ruined for me, sadly. I have been told by some people to use it anyway because I love it, but I am of the feeling that in 20 years it will be like the names Jennifer and Melissa - we will wonder "what did so many parents love SO much about that boring name?" - of course they are not boring names but they have become boring to us just because we have heard them so often - and I think the same will happen with Sophia. A few years ago it still sounded fresh, but it doesn't now. I want a name that doesn't date quite so easily. Good luck with your decision - I really look forward to hearing what name you choose!

What is going on??? I am now appearing as "Jane A" - how weird!! This is Leafy, actually! I will have to figure out what silly computer is up to...

testing testing 1 2 3!!

Oh phew, I'm back to my old self! :)

I have to agree about names becoming popular and losing their appeal. Although, I do tend to favour names that are less popular or not at all popular, I actually find myself cringing when I hear of another baby named something popular. For girls this includes things like Sophie, Charlotte and Isla which I all quite like. (Note I'm in Australia and these are getting or are pretty popular here). Boys names, I used to like both Mason and Jasper, but these are becoming too trendy for my taste.

Luckily, so far nothing I've fallen totally in love with has become too popular, just names I quite like, and would have considered.

I would also tell people to use something if they really love it, no matter the popularity. But, if the magic has gone due to the popularity issue, then why settle?

For the record, I have only 2 friends with Sophie's and 1 work colleague with a Sophia. The name is very popular here though!

Re: Popularity

"if the magic has gone due to the popularity..." [Chimu #266]

That's exactly how I feel about super-popular names. I don't stop liking them, but that "special feeling" wears off as the names become mainstream. Besides, I like to discover new names so I usually don't mind "handing off" previous favourites to the general public. (Because that's totally how it works in the Annacentric world :-) ).

Laura,

Two comments about the Timeline feature in NameMapper:
a) It's genious!
b) The blue colour for the "Neotraditional" region and to some extend the red colour for "Old South" are darker/stronger than the rest. I think this gives a slightly distorted visual impression in favour of these regions compared to the "pale" regions.

Sophie/a is definitely popular in my circle of friends/family. Ella/Isabella, Emily and others are also popular too. I know 3 Sophie/a's, 1 Isabella, 2 Emily's.

Marie,

As a Miranda, I've always been aware of the connection with the spanish word "mira", plus I grew up in California. I always liked the connection, however, so I don't know that it would necessarily be something that would invite ridicule or make your daughter feel bad...especially once she understood that her name is part of the word "miracle". If you're drawn to the name, I wouldn't cross it off because of those concerns.

I loved the name Sophia for many, many years, for the sound and the meaning of it. I wouldn't use it now, however, because it's so very common. I guess you have to figure out whether that would bother you or not. It's true that I don't know any little Sophia's in my circle, though...just hear about them occasionally out and about.

Punk Princess,

Those are some incredibly beautiful names you've got there. My favorites in order are:

Fionavar Sinead (I think it flows really nicely)
Saoirse Avalon
Saoirse Olwen
Saoirse Aoibheann

I understand the complications of using Saoirse, but it's such an incredible meaning for a name. I wish there were more beautiful names out there that meant "freedom". I wouldn't combine it with another english virtue name, though. "Serenity" always seemed like a lot to live up to, personally. I like Verity, but really I'm liking the two Irish names together. I know Avalon is a little different, but having a legendary name like that that ALSO is her birthplace is pretty special and unique to her. I don't really like the sound of Rukia and Sorcha, personally. Fionavar Sinead is my definite favorite, though.

Not sure if this will be of any interest to anybody, but I was looking through a list of my company's clients (it's a retirement savings company - with around 200,000 clients). As my sister, Tracey, is a client I thought I'd look her up. Ordering the list by first name I started to scroll through and was surprised by how many Tracey's (including Tracy/Traci/Tracie) had the middle names Lee, Anne or Leanne! Intrigued I started calulating and here's what I came up with:

Tracey's with middle names listed - 274
Tracey's without middle names listed - 262 (note: this is not completely accurate - middle names are not always inputted)

Tracey's with middle name Lee/Leigh - 47 (17% of those with a middle name)
Tracey's with middle name Ann(e) - 53 (19%)
Tracey's with middle name Leanne - 28 (10%)

So that's 128 our of 274 (47%) that have the middle name Lee, Anne or Leanne. I mean, I know those name are common middle names, but that seemed pretty high to me!

According to their dates of birth the Tracey's were mainly born in the 1960s and 1970s (as you would expect).

Man I wish I could do that sort of stuff everyday! Might have another try the next time the boss is out of the office….!

Penny-those are pretty interesting statistics! My name is similar to Tracey (with the E) and my mn is Jayne (with a Y).

Laura-when is the mn commentary coming out?

Remember the "Is Jade a stripper name?" question from last week or so? I thought about that this weekend when I went to go see The Hangover and the stripper played by Heather Graham was named Jade.

I realize that doesn't put the debate to rest or anything, but I think it does speak to a larger cultural association with the name that isn't necessarily controlled by personal association (individuals we may have known named Jade.) This seemed especially interesting in light of the previous conversation about personal association (David as a "nerd name," Miranda as a "cheerleader name," etc.): At what point does a name transcend personal association and take on cultural association? For instance, I went to high school with a very sweet, wholesome girl named Bambi, but that personal association doesn't outweigh the cultural association of Bambi being a stripper-name.

Thank you name experts! You gave me just the input I needed! I'm still not sure what my solution will be but I have many options that is for sure.
Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!

Marie, I just looked up SSA stats for Linda and can understand your MIL Linda's concerns about choosing a very popular name. Linda was in the top 10 names for girls from 1940-1965: during that period the smallest group of baby Lindas were those in 1940 -- 'only' 18,370. But bigger things were on the horizon for the name Linda, which was the #1 name from 1947-1952. In 1947 nearly 100,00 baby girls (99,601) were given the name Linda, with over 5% (5.8439) of all baby girls born that year called Linda. That same year there were another 4833 girls named Lynda, plus another seven names in the top 1000 with "linda" in them:
Melinda 694
Belinda 240
Rosalinda 208
Malinda 183
Erlinda 130
Glinda 114
Herlinda 95

Linda was everywhere during those years! And the love of "lin/lyn" carried over to numerous other -lin/-lyn names.

On the other hand, the top names of today are not being used anywhere near as much. Whereas over 5% of all baby girls were given the #1 name Linda in 1947, the #1 name in 2008 - Emma - was given to only .9043% of the girls born last year. Sophia placed at #7 with only 15,887 girls given the name or .7729% of all baby girls born in 2008. In 1947 the name given to .7638% of all baby girls -- closest percentage to that of Sophia in 2008 -- was Cheryl (#24).

You might want to share these statistics with your MIL. I think she'll be surprised to see that a top ten name today isn't anywhere near as widely used as Linda was when it was a top ten name.

"I will die of envy if someone actually names their child Violet Juniper."

Ha ha! I think you'll live though...I ran it by my husband and he still hates Juniper. Rats! :(

I have thought about the "violently" issue before...that's the problem with having an adverb last name.

Unfortunately he says he doesn't like Jonah either! Or Noah. Sometimes I feel like he's a meanie, popping all my lovely balloons. I'm afraid to show him my list now because there won't be anything left! He did say Charlotte and Zachary were OK though.

Marie, I still think popularity shouldn't keep you from using the name you love. If there's other names you love just as much, then by all means choose the less popular one. But if you feel like you're "settling" by choosing another name and Sophia is far and away the clear favorite, then don't settle!

I'm far more likely to be influenced by names in my local circle (my friends' kids or kids in her playgroup) and avoid those names even if they're not as popular because I don't want to seem like a copycat, rather than the overall number lists. So Kai is out because there's two in her swim class, but she doesn't know any Sophias so I would still consider that. And I'm more bugged by having another kid with both first and last names the same, rather than just the first name so I'd be more likely to use a popular first name if I had a less common last name.

Patricia -- I love when you break things down and spell it out like that (in #275). Even though I've never been thinking of Sophia/ie, it always helps me feel better and adds reassurance to picking something that I worry is too high up on the charts, like Natalie for example. Love it and its always stayed in the teens rather than top 10, but I always worry about its overuse.

Guest #273,

A related story about Brian's, Johnny's and Kenneth's:

Ca. 1990 there was a very popular radio show in Denmark with a laughable, unintelligent, uneducated 20-something character called "Brian Brian". The name Brian was already in decline but plummeted after that. Since then the term "a Brian" is used to describe unfortunate male Danish beings who fit that description. I'm unsure how exactly it came about but "a Johnny" and "a Kenneth" mean more or less the same thing.

Of course, a radio show cannot assassinate the name Brian all by itself. There has to be a pre-existing cultural association with the name Brian that is in accordance with the Brian character, even thought it is strongly exaggerated. In the case of Brian, Johnny and Kenneth it is because these names are sourced from American television (which is imported in great amounts, not always great quality).

With Jade, there is also the history of Asian sexual objectification. See Lotus.

daisy_kay: I adore the name Ambrose, so Ambrose William and Frederick Ambrose get my top votes. (Frederick Ambrose is practically perfect in every way).

PPP: Saoirse Verity and Fionavar Olwen take the cake for me. I think it would be nice to take your DH's preference for an English name into consideration if you do go with Aoibheann (which has seriously grown on me after seeing it written so many times--I now pronounce it correctly in my head immediately!)

Marie-- Sophia's popularity would be a deal-breaker for me. I hear the name constantly in my neighborhood in NYC, plus my niece is named this, plus I know of about 4 others born to facebook connections in my age cohort.

Try to figure out which would make you more regretful-- to use the name and then have your daughter be one of a crowd of Sophias, or to not use it and be reminded that you passed it up every time you hear of a child named Sophia.

Along those lines, my husband and I decided years ago that our first daughter would be named Josephine. Well, now that we're closer to kid-having time...I've grown kind of bored of the name. It's a bit more popular than I would have liked. And having all the decisions made already is no fun!

As I mentioned in a previous thread, I'm completely besotted with Cornelia Maud these days and am seriously yearning to use that name. My husband likes the nickname Nell, so there may be a chance. But do I abandon ship like this (once we get pregnant)? Can I really chuck Josephine Edith and her many family connections for the bright, shiny Cornelia Maud? I feel like the stereotypical CEO, trading in his faithful wife of many years standing for the new secretary!

Coll: You could always hope for twins! I think Josephine and Cornelia would make a great twin-set. (I love love love both of these names!) :D

Marie: I agree with the poster (I can't remember who it was) who said that it's more important what's popular in your circle than what the SSA lists say is popular. If you know tons of little girls named Sophia, you might have more regrets than if you are the only one of your friends or family with one. In that case you may regret passing it up more. Also, if you give her a very unique middle name you could always call her Sophia MN in the case of two or more in her class. Personally, I like Charlotte, but then I'm biased as I have a little girl named Charlotte.
Just a word of caution though: If you move to another area, you may find that the name you chose is WAAAAY more popular than it was where you lived before. We lived in NJ when we chose the name Caroline. I didn't know any other Carolines despite working in several schools and daycare centers for four years before having kids. Then we moved to South Carolina and it's in the top twenty. I actually didn't enroll her in one specific private pre-school because there were already three other little Carolines in what would have been her class! She'd have been one of four in a class of only 20 children! UGH! Anyway, if you love Sophia, you should use it. It's a truly lovely name and I think that the timelessness of it will age it better than other (less) popular names that sound made-up.

kristinfromsc,
i second that. it doesn't matter if one (or all of us) know five sophias under the age of three. if it isn't that popular in your area, then it's irrelevent. local popularity is much more important than ssa stats.

"local popularity is much more important than ssa stats"

I'll third that! A relative is considering Lydia for her baby (gender not yet determined) due in Jan. Pretty name, I thought, and not too overly popular: #120 in the 2008 SSA top 1000 for the entire country. But then I looked at the stats for our state and was shocked to see Lydia at #39! How can that be? I haven't heard of/read of any local little girls named Lydia, and yet Lydia has been in the top 50 for the past 4 years and a top 100 name in this state since 2000. (Isn't Laura's NameMapper brilliant for quickly accessing those kinds of stats!) Still, we've not seen any of these little Lydias, so maybe they're in another part of the state???

Betsy-My dd is Natalie. It is #20 in our state. We run into a few on playgrounds/in MCD's sometimes but none in her gym class or preschool for instance. She starts K in the fall so we will see if she is 1 of X or not.

No young Lydia's around here btw.

"I realize that doesn't put the debate to rest or anything, but I think it does speak to a larger cultural association with the name that isn't necessarily controlled by personal association"

I would have to disagree - the writer would have chosen that name as one they personally felt was a stripper name. So the choice was still controlled by personal association.

However, if the movie becomes very popular and the character's name is memorable, then it could take on a larger cultural association, like Gone With The Wind did for the name Scarlett.

"Can I really chuck Josephine Edith and her many family connections for the bright, shiny Cornelia Maud? I feel like the stereotypical CEO, trading in his faithful wife of many years standing for the new secretary!"

So funny. I feel that way too when I fall in love with a new name. I had Sophia Grace lined up for years, and both hubby and I had settled on it long before I got pregnant. But I just can't do it now that it's such a ubiquitous name. I figure that I can always use it for a second daughter if I still love it by then, but I doubt it will happen. Tastes evolve, and just like I loved Samantha, Honey and Jacinta when I was a teenager but would never use them now, I think it's fair enough to move on from names you loved a few years ago. And you could still use them as middle names if they are important to you for their family connections.

"Anyway, if you love Sophia, you should use it. It's a truly lovely name and I think that the timelessness of it will age it better than other (less) popular names that sound made-up."

But surely there are other classic alternatives to Sophia! You make it sound as though the only other options sound made-up, when in fact there are dozens of lovely timeless names that are less popular than Sophia. Surely choosing a less-popular name doesn't mean chosing a made-up-sounding name?!

Names that style-wise seem similar to Sophia:
(to me atleast)
Isabella (really!)
Lucia
Sadie
Stefania
Rosalia/Rosalinda
Selena
Ione
Eva
Mariah (Ma-rye-uh as in Carey)
Theresa
Ophelia
Elena (but only this sp w pron Eh-lay-na)

All give off a sort of Spanish/Italian flair for me.

PPP - I vote for Sorcha Verity. So pleased you and DH are getting there...

i think there should be more Freds. I think i like it spelled as such: Frederic.

also Ambrose

and Verity

Jenny L3igh, My sister-in-law's house is less than 3 minutes (walking) from the New England Mobile Book Fair. I get itchy with jealousy just thinking about it! We get great presents...

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