As researchers in diverse fields turn more and more to baby name studies, BabyNameWizard.com does its best to keep 'em honest from a naming perspective. Today we focus on a new study out of Hebrew University in Jerusalem which purports to demonstrate that the internet has not created a "global village"; on the contrary, "the importance of geographic proximity has dramatically increased with the internet revolution." In other words, they claim that we communicate within our local community more than ever before, and thus local trends influence us disproportionately more than ever before.
The authors' baby-name evidence comes from the same state-by-state figures that power the NameMapper. They find that regional differences in naming, specifically the impact of local proximity in the spread of new names, rose dramatically starting in the mid-1990s. That's when the World Wide Web hit, too. Ergo, they conclude, the "IT revolution" has made us more local-focused, not more globalized. This result has been reported in major publications including the Economist.
The baby namer's first take: the good news is that the authors have identified a genuine naming phenomenon, one that dovetails neatly with other major patterns in modern naming. The bad news is that the conclusions they draw from it seem like a stretch, and ignore other news from the baby name world. In fact, my hunch is that their finding may mean the opposite of what they claim.
American baby naming did shift starting in the 1960s, with an additional acceleration starting in the '90s. I spend a lot of my time explaining this to anybody who will listen. (Yeah, I'm a lot of fun at parties.) Just look at the starting graph of the NameVoyager to see the national decline in the percentage of babies receiving a top-1000 name. The very top of the curve has dropped even faster. Since 1995, the number of babies receiving the #1 most popular name has fallen by half. The churn rate -- turnover, rising and falling of names -- has risen too.
So here's the first confound for the authors' "increased local socialization theory." If most new names start and spread locally, then a national movement toward the new and different could be enough to increase regionalization. But there's more, too.
The authors of the paper describe the spread of new names as diffusion based on exposure, which makes sense. Their argument is that the internet gets you socializing and thus hearing new names disproportionately more in your own geographic region, so local diffusion has become more powerful. But there's another key force at work in baby name decisions. A signficant percentage of parents are actively seeking the unusual. Knowing that everybody else around them is choosing a name will turn them away from it.
I'll throw in one other factor that the researchers didn't consider. The mid-1990s wasn't only the date of birth of the web. It was also the DOB of America's national baby-name popularity statistics.
Knowing all of that, what's a realistic mechanism for the shift in naming patterns? Here's one possibility:
You're expecting a baby! Time to think about names. The names that enter your awareness, and that you like, depend on your local community. But you don't want to be like everybody else, you want your child's name to be distinctive. What do you do? If it's pre-1995, you just guess at what's common based on your own experience. Maybe you ask your neighbors whose kids are in preschool. But in the internet era, you do a little research. You start web-searching the full name you're considering for your baby to see how many others are already called that. You check the first name's ranking in the national top 1000. (State name stats came later, only go 100 deep, are much less widely reported.) You winnow down your list accordingly.
So let's recap. The names you're drawn toward were determined locally, then you pushed away names that were popular in a broader geographic region -- but not necessarily names that were popular locally. Thus the relative role of local taste in determining your child's name rises. Not because the internet magically increased your socialization within a tri-state area; on the contrary, because it led you to look farther afield in making social judgments.
That's my guess, anyway. And that mechanism fits well with the other naming phenomena I described above. The desire to choose distinctive names, which grew starting in the '60s, has been turbocharged by our modern exposure to a wide world of names and name rankings, fueling parents' competitive fire. Our tastes are still like our neighbors', but we benchmark ourselves against the world.
p.s. The study in question only looked through 2005. As it happens, another small shift in name stats happened that year: The Baby Name Wizard, and particularly the NameVoyager. The NameVoyager attracted millions of users within months of its launch, giving a big new boost to interest in name popularity. If the benchmarking effect I've conjectured about is real, could a further acceleration in change be found?
Comments
Thanks for another thought-provoking post! Does it feel weird to think that you might not only have influenced individual sets of parents in their naming choices, but also that you have effected change on the TRENDS?!
Today I'm going to the bookstore to* hopefully* get my copy of the BNW2. Wish me luck!
Great post, Laura. I absolutely think that the focus on the new and different is causing parents to check their local favorites against a braoder national pool, which aids in a further localization of those names. For instance, here in Brooklyn, the names Ruby, Stella, Miles, Milo and Gemma are all massively growing in popularity. A parent that likes these names and checks them against the broader national trends would see that these names are still relatively underused, and so might pick this name though ultimately it still strongly reflects the tastes of her immediate surroundings. A "popular unpopular name" so to speak.
That's funny. I recently lived in NY and my friends that either still live or have lived in NY have kids named Ruby, Stella (know two of those), and Milo. Don't have TOO many friends with kids yet, so it's funny that the few friends I have with small kids or babies used the names that you mentioned.
Briefly back to the high-concept idea: a work colleague just came up (and without prompting) to tell me about her nephew, Leonardo. Apparently Mum made a big deal about how he was named after Da Vinci. So at the christening the dad's extended family, without the mum's foreknowledge, arranged to pose for a photograph in the style of the ninja turtles.
Apparently there has been some frostiness between the in-laws since!
Definitely a great post--I think Laura's explanation for the trends is certainly more thoughtful and plausible than the study authors'. It's a very interesting take on how these local naming bubbles arise, and it makes a lot of sense to me.
Oh, and I can hardly imagine life without the SSA statistics! All those poor mothers of Jennifers and Jasons who may have thought they were being original--at least they had an excuse!
What an interesting study and an even more interesting explanation from Laura!
This is a very minor detail in the post but I find it interesting that interest in names and name popularity didn’t really become popular until the mid 90s. I’ve been collecting baby name books since I was about 10. In addition, I have a diary dating back to 5th grade that has a whole section dedicated to ‘interesting names’. Basically every time I met someone with a name I’d never encountered before I wrote it down. Sure it’s a primitive form of name tracking but what do you expect from an underage name geek. :).
I saw a news item this morning about an elderly well-known classical musician and his wife who have died. As well as being sorry to hear of their demise, I was struck (as an NE) by the following snippet:
"according to a statement released by their son and daughter, Caractacus and Boudicca".
Wow. Just wow.
My parents named me Jessica because it was "pretty and unusual"--they'd never heard of one, even though it was in the top 5 for several years before my birth. For someone like my mom who doesn't watch a lot of tv, in the early 80s her only option was to ask neighbors/friends/etc. She said that they met four or five other baby Jessicas within a few months of my birth...making her realize that their "unique" choice was not so unique.
I think had the internet/SSA stats been around back then, I probably would've been a Naomi (their 2nd choice). But they had no way of knowing how popular the name was nationally since it wasn't popular among their friends and family.
I don't know if that really fits Laura's theory or not since Jessica was so popular nationally. Granted that is my name because the didn't know any Jessicas locally, but there were a lot of Jessicas locally, my parents just hadn't met them. And I don't know for sure if my parents would've actively avoided such a common name if they'd known it was common nationally, because my dad actually would prefer a more common name for himself, which might've made him deliberately choose Jessica for me since it would 'blend in'. Hmm....off to namevoyager to see if I can pin down a Jessica pattern.
hyz: I know how they feel. It is so frustrating having to rely on American statistics, which are obviously not the same. It isn't too bad cos most American names cross over, but I would still like to know the British top baby names. And if they could do it by region it would be amazing. Save being terrified that my children will be one of 5 in their year at school. Even if you know a name is #42 say, you still don't know if that means there will be alot of them near you, or just that they meay meat some others in their lives.
After looking at namevoyager, my theory is that Laura's theory is true for current names like what Pippa mentioned (Stella, Ruby, Milo), but that it doesn't seem to work for super-popular names of the past like what hyz mentioned (Jennifer, Jason--and Jessica!). Jessica was already #30 in the state I was born in a full decade before I was born--and it was in the top 3 in every single state the year I was born. So, even if my parents had looked at national trends, and tried to avoid Jessica because it was common, they still wouldn't have precisely been fitting into a local niche, because Jessica was almost equally popular everywhere.
BUT, since I was born pre-1995 the whole thing might be bunk anyway, since it's only since the statistics became available that most parents have begun trying to avoid common names. So I guess actually it does prove Laura's theory right!
Although I still can't explain my parents never having met another Jessica when it was in the top 30 for 10 years, and was #2 the year I was born! Apparently they were just totally oblivious! :)
Phew! I was away for a week and have only just caught up reading all the comments. Wow do I ever feel overloaded!
Anna asked in one of the previous threads about people not "living up to" their names. It seems to be that lots of people dislike their names, some enough to change them. (My own husband changed his name because he despised the person he was named for and didn't like the sound of his original name, Kenneth, anyway.) Isn't there a poster on this board named Future ex princess? I think I remember that she explained that her real name is Princess and that she is going to change it. If you're out there, please chime in!
Anne with an E, are you the oldest child in the family? A lot of times the oldest child is inadvertently named something popular (the horror, the horror!) just because the parents don't know many babies, or even children. I think that could explain how your mother thought that the name Jessica was unusual. Of course, if you're the fourth child, I'd just say she was oblivious.
My parents knew how very popular Jessica was when I was born (almost a decade before the 90s). In fact, their first two children share identical names with some of their best friends' children. The desire to be "different" or "unique" never played a part in their choice; in fact, they stuck with traditional or popular name choices for their children (9) until the mid-90s.
Funny but true: when I was in preschool I met another Jessica who spelled her name "Jesica." Ironically, my only memory from preschool is the tearful fight we had over the "right" spelling. I suspect we both left school that day feeling inferior to the other.
Interesting post as usual Laura! I would tend to agree that since the advent of the internet and increased sources of name info, that naming trends have gotten MORE localized. I think that is what is being said here. For instance, IF I were naming a baby tomorrow and I liked the name Amelia. I would look at its stats and then decide. It is #68 according to SSA, #78 in my state. I don't know any little ones with this name though I do know lots of Lily's. I also know several Emma's, Emily's and a few Isabella's and Sophie/a's.
So if I were to simply compare the rankings and base my choice on those I would think I was pretty "safe" with choosing this as it is out of the top 50 and would lessen the chance of my little one being one of a bunch in school. However, if I were to visit this or one of the many other blog/choose-my-name-with-me sites I would hear it all over the place and maybe think differently and that it was more popular than it really is. So then I might choose something like Alexis, Samantha, or Chloe whose state #'s are respectively 16,15, and 9! But I NEVER hear them! I think it all depends on the information available to select groups and how they choose to USE that info as well.
To the poster who wanted an M mn: Have you also ruled out these:
Mitchell
Malachi
Maxwell/and other forms of
Miles/Milo
Marshall
So true!
I was born in '77 and my mom's choice was Jennifer. No offense to the Jennifers, but I'm so glad my dad won out! I would've had to be called by my last name because ended up having a Jennifer K (my initial) in my class.
My sister had her first baby in '90 and named her Brittany. I wonder if she would've chosen differently had she known how popular the name would be for Brittany's generation.
Interesting ideas. I like most of what Laura says, but I do think that only a very small proportion of parents actually check statistics before choosing a name for their kids. I'm not sure how much this could influence naming trends, even if the data is out there for everyone to see. I'd guess that it's just one of several effects that has influenced naming (like cre8ive spelling, etc.), rather than the one big effect that rules the overall trend.
I do know that my choice for a girl (although I'm currently pregnant with a boy) would be one of the variations of Lila/Lilah/Leila/Lyla/Laila. I watch with dismay as the names all grow in popularity with each passing year. But I love the name enough not to go with anything else (although sometimes I flip to Lilith/Lilit, which is very similar). So as unique as I'd like to be, I'm part of a trend anyway. I wonder why all the other parents are choosing this name, and if it's for similar reasons.
Celeb baby name alert:
Since we were recently talking about her-
After weeks of hospitalization and bed rest, Mira Sorvino gave birth to her third child with husband Christopher Backus - and the actress calls her new son a "miracle baby." Holden Paul Terry Backus was born on June 22 in Los Angeles, PEOPLE reports.
I mostly just lurk here, but I'm alway impressed with everyone's comments. I'm hoping you can put some of that expertise to work to help us decide on a name for our little one - expected in only 7 short weeks!
Last name is 3 syllables beginning w/ V and ending with -en.
For a boy, our favorite name is Declan Scott (mn after DH). We both love Declan, but our runners up would be Soren and Mathias. Do the endings of Declan and Soren clash with our last name? Also, for Mathias we like the mah-tee-is pronunciation, but do you think it's more common as mah-thigh-is?
For a girl, we don't have any names that we love. DH likes Ava/Eva and Mia - all too popular for me. We can agree on Alina, Evelyn, Carys, Elise and Nora, but we don't LOVE any of those. The only family MN we would consider is Delphine (after my grandma), but we aren't stuck on having a family name.
Any feedback you can offer that would help narrow our list or discover a girl's name we'll love - would be greatly appreciated! :) Christa
Just purchased 2 copies of BNW2 at a local B&N, after calling them to see if they had received any copies of the revised edition. I also had very good luck getting Amazon to send me a label to return the original BNW they sent me, with Amazon paying return postage. The number to call is 1-866-216-1072.
I hope everyone else can get their hands on the new edition soon.
cvpea- I like all your choices, and particularly love Mathias, pronounced mah-tee-is. I wonder if you spelled it Mattias (the German/Scand. way) whether it would be easier to get the pronunciation you are looking for.
Some suggestions for a girl with similar sound/feel (love Delphine for a mn):
Linnea
Carina
Maya
Leah
Lina
Serena
Anya
Nina
Lia
Louisa
Cora
Flora
Annika
Stella
Some of these have a Scandinavian feel which seems to harmonize with Soren and Mattias. Hope this helps.
cvpea: I'll let others help on the girls names, but I grew up as Kristin ***ton, and never thought the sound too repetitive. so the double -en I don't see as a problem.
And if I saw Mathias, I'd pronounce it Ma-tee-us, but never with a long 'eye' sound
I agree with a previous poster--I don't think *anyone* that ordered from Amazon got a BNW2. I did stop by my local B&N today to try to order a copy. They didn't have any on the shelf, but it turns out they just received three copies today so I snagged one of them! BN.com has a feature where you can check the inventory at local stores, not sure how accurate that is but you could call the stores to double check. Good luck!
This is a great post! I agree with most of what is being said. In my experience, it does depend on how interested in names people are (and their popularity) as to how much effort they put into researching them and possibly avoiding popular names.
NE's generally do a lot of research and make decisions based on all that they have learnt and are less likely to unknowingly pick a popular name. However, many people I know are heavily influenced by names of other children in their circle (children of relatives, friends, neighbours, daycare, kindy etc). Many people are also joining online forums and tend to be influenced by names of kids they hear on the forum, even if they aren't 'local'.
I do get a little annoyed when people tell me that such and such a name isn't popular anymore, or popular around them, when in fact it is in the top 10 or 20. They just don't know because they haven't looked. I had this very conversation with a friend yesterday, when she told me the name of her child called Benjamin, almost 2, is not that popular anymore, she doesn't know any etc. It is definitely in the top 10 here and has been for a long time. There isn't any point in arguing though, I usually point out the stats and leave it at that.
How many time do we all here the surprise of a friend/relative when they discover their childs name is not as unusual as they thought!
Btw - I think that local birth announcements are a good way to keep a little on top of what is popular in your local area (particularly when your country and state stats are some what lacking).
Valerie, I saw that too. Truly impressive.
Cypea – Great names! Re: Declan/Soren: I like names that repeat sounds in a subtle way. So as long as your last name doesn’t directly rhyme, I think you’re fine with either of them but I actually LOVE Mathias (though I’ve always pronounced it mah-TIE-is). For your girls names I really like your mn choice it’s different and cute which is nice when you’re dealing with family names!
I’m also pretty fond of Carys for a fn. But just in case, here are a few more ideas that might fit with your current choices.
Avery
Emery
Anika
Elinor
Annalise
Eliana
cvpea - I like your naming style. I agree with others that unless your surname directly rhymes with the first name, it should be fine. The 3 syllable surname will be helpful as the greater number of syllables seem to help reduce the rhymeyness. Of your first names I really like Soren and Mathias. Both great picks! Not a huge fan of Declan, but it's still a nice name. I think if you enforce the correct pronunciation of Mathias, you should be right, it's really not that hard.
Love Delphine for a middle name for a girl, one of my favourites! Of the first names I like Carys, Nora and Elise in that order. Carys is another fav of mine. I second the suggestions of Linnea, Annika, Louisa and Elinor (nn Nora).
cvpea-First of all thanks for picking a sn! Next, I always pronounce Mathias as Mah-thigh-us. I don't know any of these though so if I was introduced to one irl I would probably remember whatever they wanted. Of your choices I would say Declan Mathias V-n sounds the best. I don't think the repeated -n ending is horrible but the repeated S of Soren Mathias throws me a little.
For girls, here are some combos. Some are repeats.:)
Evelyn Rachel
Carys Evelyn
Elise Delphine
Linnea Delphine
Carina Elyse
Leah Rosemary
Alina Nicole
Anya Louise
Louisa Phoebe
Annika Georgette
Emery Tate
Elinor Lydia
Eliana Collette
Here in central Alberta, Canada, I can attest that for the most part parents seem to gravitate towards "local" trends seemingly unknowingly. Our local newspaper publishes a "Parade of Babies" in January, which lists all the babies born in the area the previous year. It's astonishing how many repeats occur - e.g. 10 Maddoxes, 7 Nevaehs (if you count the ones that aren't spelled correctly ;p), etc. - as well as the "mega-name" trends, as in all the permutations of Ella/Bella, Emma/Emily, or Madden/Moddox/Maddylyn (seen them all!).
The tricky part is how to discern these clusters of local name "conformity" from the wider national trends, and in our case, influence from the US.
Personal note: I just wanted to thank everyone who has been so helpful and forthcoming with suggestions as we face our myriad name crises. The support has meant so much, and hopefully we'll have a fabulous name to announce in 3 1/2 months.
PPP: a question on your naming dilemma. Do you and your husband want one firm, definitive choice as you go into labor, or would you be willing/open to having two choices--both approved and supported by both parties--and waiting to see which fits your daughter better? Going with the second option could possibly take off a little of the pressure to find the "perfect" name.
Moonlady--I have a two month old named Lila, so I sympathize with you. I am, however, learning to be at peace with my naming choices :) My 2 year old son also has a popular name. As a previous poster mentioned, we were first time parents and my husband and I really did not consider popularity, short of wanting to avoid a MegaPopular name on the order of Madison. I love both my kid's names, though, whether they are popular or not. I actually think it's a little silly to not pick a name you love because--dear god!--someone else likes it too! As has been mentioned here before, even the most popular names are being used in smaller numbers, decreasing the probability that your child will be surrounded by others with their name--no matter how popular it may be. And I wonder how often parents are really concerned about that, anyway--I often feel as though parents regard their name choices as reflections of themselves and their creativity. It reminds me a little of the college radio station I worked at where it was impossible to be "indy" enough; if somebody said they liked the and Braid, for instance, everyone would roll their eyes--"Oh, they're so popular now!"--even though the majority of the population has no idea who they are :)
l
Above should read "the band Braid" :)
@Landry:
Your comments on the "Indier Than Thou" attitude made me think of what I call "The Paradox of Hipster Names": a so-called hipsters want a name that appears off-beat, quirky, creative, and individual - a deliberate act of not following the trends. Then, when they discover that "Matilda" or "Ruby" or whatever has exceeded the acceptable limits of obscurity, a new name/group of names needs to be found to recapture that gesture of non-conformity. It's a vicious, vicious circle ;p
It's become a truism that "individuality" has become the biggest naming trend in the west today. That may sound trite, but I think it's a small part of our wider cultural obsession with uniqueness and individualism. When you think about it, even the so-called "outcasts" in my high school (I was one!) could be fit into recognizable types. Now, it isn't a statement of non-conformity to dress "goth", for example, but rather a trend that symbolizes non-conformity while fitting in to a familiar trope.
Yet another Jessica here! My parents told me that they had no idea that the name was common. I was born in the mid-eighties.
@Coll:
Personally, I'm the type who feels better by having a "final choice" picked out, even if it turns out to be less than final ;p
Apparently, I was "named by the seat of my pants", as it were: until I was 2 hours old I was meant to be Victoria, but my mom "just knew" I looked like a Rebecca.
Ok, great, in my case it worked out fine (I really couldn't picture life as a Victoria!) but I don't trust the process. To me, it seems like a gamble to base the decision on your baby's looks or personality at a few hours/days old, when in all likelihood those traits will bear little resemblance to her at 6 or 16 or 26.
I'd rather try to find a name that could suit her regardless of her traits, i.e. one that will grow into her, not the other way around, IYKWIM.
PPP-My brain isn't wrapping around what IYKWIM but I find that "in general" the name and the person kind of grow into each other simultaneously.
and HAIL ALL JESSICA's !!!!!
I still love the name! 70's please come back LOL!
Landry: When I should have been getting work done today, I looked up all of the variations of Lila on the Name Voyager to see how common they really are. Some of these will have different pronunciations, but that will vary with how the parents decide to spell them.
As of 2008:
Name, #/million, rank
Lila, 430, #179
Lilah, 180, #411
Lyla, 340, #222
Layla, 1130, #155
Laylah, 58, #993
Laila, 550, #140
Lailah, 68, #870
Leila, 350, #226
Leyla, 87, #772
(there was no Leilah or Laylah I guess these are past #1000)
Did I miss any?
That's 3193 per million (ppm? LOL, I'm a geek), which is 0.3% of all newborn girls, or one out of every ~313 girls. All are rising in popularity, so these odds will probably go up, but even these combined variations still don't add up to very much. So it's unlikely that your Lila will be one of 5 in her kindergarten class (barring local variations that the Name Voyager doesn't account for).
I think part of wanting to be different is the bombardment of books, movies, and TV shows with girls that have neat names. I remember lots of 1980s movies where the heroine was named Kara or Kira or something similar (anybody remember the Dark Crystal? http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0083234/), which immediately made me think my own name (in the top 20 in the 70s when I was born) was quite boring. I knew I'd want a really neat name for my kid that was pretty and clearly singled her out as a hero type (mind you, this was me thinking as an 8 year old). So it couldn't possibly be something as mundane as Mary or Jennifer or Jane, it would have to be something pretty but a little unusual. I guess that stuck with me. I wonder how many of us were affected by that.
It just occurred to me, the Kara/Kira trend continues with Starbuck from the recent Battlestar Galactica series, whose name was Kara Thrace. Laura, you could write a whole blog entry on this female hero naming trend. When did it start and why? Why has it lasted so long?
So, I'm still working at that summer camp, and I've got another list of names. These are kids between 18 and 24 months:
Girls:
Isabelle (older brothers are Ethan and Owen)
Keaton
Sophia
Layla
Lola
Maddie (just Maddie, not Madeline, Madison, etc.)
Eva
Taylor
Anabelle
Boys:
Landon
Joshua
Colton
Conner (older brother is Trey)
Bradlee (older sisters are Jenna, Kendall, and Danielle)
Jay
Owen
Parker
Cruz
Walker (younger sister is Morgan)
Ryan
To me I want to give my children unusual or uncommon names, but not crazyily unique names, because I want people to think about the name and how it sounds when they hear it. As a NE I spend alot of time thinking about the tone, sound and history of most peoples names, fn and mn, and sib sets. However I know most people don't do this at all, except to decide whether or not they like the name of a new baby, or if the name is unusual. For example my name is Emily and my friends name is Yasmina. And whilst people just accept Emily in their stride, Yasmina is always getting people in shops or airports telling her they like her name.
For example, to me it feels much more rewarding to know that it isn't only you thats going to get a pilgrimy vibe from Obadiah or Jeremiah, as opposed to Sarah or Rebecca.
O and, because I thought it fit in quite well with the discussion on the growing popularity of "cutesy" names, particuarly in the UK, here is a list of the youngest classes at the dance school my sisters go to. These girls are between 3 and 7 I would guess.
Scarlett
Charlotte
Rhian*
Elan*
Hollie
Elouise
Evie
Daisy
Maisie
Lucy
Toni
Rebecca
Nia*
Grace
Ceryn*
Mabili*
Libby
Harriet
Caitlin
Lowri*
Lauren
Poppy
Ellie
Jessica
*note the school is in Wales, so some of the names are Welsh, and so probably not representative of the entire UK.
PunkPrincessPhd,
"... but I don't trust the process. To me, it seems like a gamble to base the decision on your baby's looks or personality at a few hours/days old..."
Agreed! I waited patiently for an epiphany of names for two months after our son was born. None came. Eventually we figured we'd just have to pick a name we liked.
It is not custom to name a child immediately after the birth here. Most parents say exactly that - that they have to see what the child looks like and what name feels right. You *can* choose a name immediately, and maybe the hospital will put it on the bracelet, but the child is officially registered as Boy/Girl MomsLastname (plus birthday and personal number). Later, when you decide on a name and have it registered you can choose a different last name as well.
cvpea,
Søren Something-sen is a very common combination around here (Scandinavia) and I've never heard any complain about the double -en ending. Even if Soren/Declan Something-en is not so common in your neck of the woods, the double -en (unstressed) is one of the least noticeable repetitions I can think of. I don't see it as a problem.
I pronounce Mathias as ma-TEE-as unless told otherwise. I've never heard the ma-THY-as pronunciation IRL. Other spellings I've seen include Matthias, Matias and Mattias, but Mathias is by far the most common spelling.
For a girl - maybe you can get your husband to play around with NameVoyager so he can see the popularity for himself (unless he wants a popular name...). There's also Nymbler. His three favourites are all very short, maybe you can look for a longer name that shorten to something he likes?
Laura's analysis makes good sense to me. However I do agree with previous posters that few people check statistics to any significant degree when naming a baby. (I am always pointing parents-to-be towards stats and they are amazed this sort of thing exists.) I think most parents are simply influenced by naming trends around them, which must contribute in large part to localization of naming.
Speaking of hipster names, my cousin had a baby girl this week in Princeton, NJ: Ag@tha. Now there is a hipster name that is still truly obscure! She's little sis to Fel!x.
Valerie, my colleague and I were discussing Caractacus and Boudicca this morning. Imagine the roll call on the first day of school!
cvpea, I meant to say that I love all your choices but especially Mathias. For me, it's pronounced -tee and Matthias is pronounced -thigh. But it's one of those names that will require correction at some point regardless of which pronunciation you were to go with, so I wouldn't worry about it too much.
Bu,
That's funny again (I had commented on the insidious prevalence of certain "unusual" hipster names earlier). I really like the name Felix, but we can't use it with my husband's last name. I also considerered Agatha briefly. When you think of Agatha in French it sounds terribly chic in an ugly/pretty way, I think (that is, assuming the girl is pretty...that's come up before) but I just couldn't bring myself to do it in English...especially not with the nn Aggie looming. Plus, my mother had a cat named Agatha when she was young :).
@zoerhenne:
Sorry - If You Know What I Mean (IYKWIM)
I live with a habitual leet-speaker ;p
Thanks everyone for the helpful comments on our name lists! If we have a boy and don't have to worry about clashing with our last name, it will definitely be hard to choose as we are really liking all three options!
I think our list in order will be:
Declan Scott
Mathias Harvey (my gf's name - does this sound okay)
Soren Scott (or mn Thomas for my FIL)
For a girl, Carys is rising to the top of the list, but I'm curious on pronunciation. I say it as rhyming with Paris, but I've seen references to the name ryhming with kiss. I don't know any irl, so hopefully you provide some guidance on the correct/common pronunciation.
I love the suggestions of Elinor (nn, Nora) and Annalise, but DH isn't excited about either.
Thanks again for your help!
I was just reading a review for the new Harry Potter movie and noticed that the actor playing the young Voldemort is named Hero Fiennes-Tiffin. I was intrigued because, to my knowledge, Hero has always been a girl's name (and one I loved! Although not one amenable to our last name, sadly.) Anyway, a little looking around tells me that this Hero is definitely a he--the nephew of actor Ralph Fiennes--and that he has a sister named Mercy and a brother named Titan!
Not only were these names intriguing on their own, but I was fascinated by the mixed message they send as a set. Hero (divorced from its classical/Shakespearean context) and Titan are big, conquering, imperialistic names; Mercy is just the opposite. I wonder what their thought process was...?
@cvpea--I believe that Carys has a short 'i' sound in the 2nd syllable...like Carissa but without the final syllable. And I've always heard Mathias pronounced Ma-TIE-us, but that might just be a Western American thing.
@Circe--wow, I think that Hero or Titan are a lot to live up to!
@ET--how is Lowri pronounced? If I remember right the 'w' in Welsh is more of a vowel sound. Is that true in names too?
PunkPrincessPhd:
"... but I don't trust the process. To me, it seems like a gamble to base the decision on your baby's looks or personality at a few hours/days old..."
LOL--I'm with you here. I had someone tell me when I was pregnant that, unless one of the names on my short list was "redandwrinkly", none of them would probably be much more likely than another to really *fit* my newborn. Maybe some people have a different experience, but I found that to be fairly true. For me, I think it's a good idea to go in with one *set* name, and have a few other strong candidates waiting in the wings if your selected name really seems off for some reason. I kind of like the tradition that Anna described of waiting awhile, but on the other hand, I don't totally mind being forced to reach a decision a little earlier.
cvpea: From your boy list, I really like both Declan and Soren. I like Mathias too, but depending on where you live, I think you'd be correcting pronunciation and/or spelling a lot (as a person whose name can be pronounced and spelled several ways, that's a real pet peeve for me). I know some here think Declan creates pronunciation difficulty, but I think it's fine because there's only one "right" pronunciation, and it's not counterintuitive to English speakers from the spelling. On the other hand, Mathias (Mattias, Matthias) has multiple correct pronunciations and spellings, and I don't think the average English speaker would look at Mathias and think "ma-TEE-is". It's a very handsome name--I just want to put that out there for you to consider whether the logistical issues put you off or not.
From your girl list, I personally really like Carys and Nora (although I do prefer Eleanor nn Nora). What would you guys think about Fiona, Iris, or Isla?
Post new comment