amyelizabeth,
thanks. :]
i have the advantage of being a very literary person AND being raised with video games. it's a fun combination. :]

Lorien-- I do like the idea of inserting one of those traditional names in the mix. Personally, I would put one right after Kai.

Like almost all of your choices, except perhaps Ronan and Ellis.

LOVE your suggestions of Thaddeus, Ignatius, Raphael, or Cyprian for one of your middles...All go great with Kai and provide an interesting, weighty historical/trad'l counterpoint...

And should add, since it always seems to come up in this blog, most people with more than one middle name love it! It widens the options, and there are fewer bureaucratic problems with it than one might think.

So far, my nine year old has done really well with his three middle names...

Let me make my MN question a bit more streamlined. While none of the long list are off the table, these are the MNs most likely to make it to the final round, either because of family connections or just because I REALLY like them. They are roughly in order from most likely contenders to least likely.

So... Kai ______ Long-Soon Dietrich
or... Kai Long-Soon ______ Dietrich

Joseph/Joah/Joachim
Augustine
Dominic
Matthias
Xavier (pronounced Zavier)
Patrick
Raphael
Cyprian
Peregrine
Ignatius
Mark
James
Edward

Eo (or anyone else with bureaucratic name experience!): What about a name with a hyphen, as is often done with Korean names? It doesn't need to have a hyphen, and I suspect it would be easier without and more visually pleasing. However, it's in the middle, so it would be less trouble (I think) than a hyphen in a FN. Does anyone have experience with that one?

Sorry to keep bombarding the board with questions... I admit I'm a bit obsessive about the naming process, and I have more variables than usual to consider this time around.

Okay, guys, I need opinions - hopefully for the last time. My husband and I are still wrangling over names for our twins; our older boys are Alexander and Nathaniel. After pushing through Thomas and Edward and Theodore and Samuel and I-don't-even-remember-what-else, we're tentatively agreed on Charles and Gabriel. I can't even tell if I like them at this point, I feel like we settled on names out of exhaustion. I'm 31 weeks along now, so there's not much time left...what do you think? Do Charles and Gabriel sound well-matched for twins? As brothers for Alexander and Nathaniel? That'll give us Xander, Nathan, Charlie and Gabe - and as my husband said, 'Poor Gabe, he's the only one with one syllable.'

I am just so tired and would really like the issue to be wrapped up and settled.

MelissaM- I think Charles and Gabriel are fantastic with the other two names- I love all four and think they harmonize well!

Lorien- Firstly, I think your list of middles is fascinating and I love your taste.I'm very excited for you, welcoming this new young lad!

Simply in terms of sound and flow, here's my take:
IMO, Patrick and Dominic rhyme with Dietrich, so they sound a bit sing-songy together.

Matthias and Raphael echo long i sound in Kai, so that's a little much for me.

One syllable middles like Mark and James sound funny after Kai.

LOVE Cyprian, Peregrine, Xavier, Joseph.

Ignatius and Augustine could also work, although because they start with a vowel, they don't work as well after Kai.

Incidentally, you might like the names of two boys (brothers) I met recently: Tych0 Aloysius and Rufus Inig0.

MelissaM: I think that all of the names you mentioned sound excellent together. I would not worry about the number of syllables in the nicknames. My siblings and I covered a range from no NN at all, to one syllable or two. We really didn't care as long as the NN itself wasn't off the wall. Brothers *may* have a tendency to give each other crazy NNs that have no relation whatsoever to their names. :-)

If you really want to balance it out, two and two, you could see if Nathaniel wants to go by Nate or Nat. But, I still wouldn't do that just to have matching syllable numbers.

I reached the "exhausted" point of trying to find a name about a month ago, so I took a break from it for a while, which can be a good think to do, if only for few days. As the last couple days of posts show, I'm back at it again. Best of luck!

@Lorien--I'll stick with Kai Augustine Long-Soon Dietrich. I love that.

@MelissaM--I think Charles (nn Charlie) and Gabriel (nn Gabe--LOVE!) sound great together and with your older two boys' names. Well done! Take a much-deserved break from naming. :)

Just to add regarding Zelda:

The Legend of Zelda is arguably one of the most important milestone games in the history of the videogame medium. The game either pioneered or popularized the concepts of an overarcing storyline, multiple locations, and diversity of activities into a cohesive whole, requiring both forethought and exploration seen in adventure games such as Zork and King's Quest, as well as the active skill of arcade-style games, like Mario Brothers. Because of the success of this game, most major releases nowadays maintian some combination of these factors to a storyline. This combination, along with Nintendo's marketing savvy, has maintained the Legend of Zelda franchise for over 20 years.

As long as Zelda Fitzgerald is remembered, so will the Legend of Zelda, and for good reason.

However, I do not believe that naming a child Zelda will mark her as a game character, no more than Vanessa or Wendy does to their original sources. Zelda is well-known as a given name outside the videogame, like Mario. This means that there's less of a connection between Zelda and the Legend than Vanessa or Wendy to their sources. Although there may be the occasional connection, Zelda is safe.

As a name, Zelda is a great way to use Z without connecting to the more common Zoe. I think the name's a bit more dashing and mysterious, too. My favorite combination mentioned above is Zelda Celeste--yes, it combines many of the same sounds together in different ways, and I feel it adds to the allure.

(emilyrae, literate and videogames! I knew there was something that clicked there... How do you feel about the storycrafting in Silent Hill 2? It felt like the first piece of literature in videogame form, in my opinion--earlier pieces like Obsidian and Star Control 2 notwithstanding. Or maybe I just geeked out again.)

Count me in as a fan of "Zelda"--the video game, not the name. I love the games as they incorporate tons of interesting puzzles. The name is still musty for me, but I'm sure that it would grow on me if I heard it on real kids, just as Adelaide has.

I volunteered in my daughter's second grade class this morning. Drum roll, please... The names are:

Girls:
Summayah
Maryeli
Jaylaya
Allie
Ella
Emily
Jacqueline
María José
Kimberly
Sarah
Lucy

Boys:
Truman
Brendan
Gedler
Jalen
Shumonto
Devin
Zain
Wilián
Leonardo
Brayan
Alberto

My daughter's school is really the UN of naming!

linnaeus,
ha, you definitely did just geek out, but it's quite alright, as it was both amusing and interesting/educational.

i agree 100% that zelda can stand on its own, and now that you bring it up: i *really* like zelda celeste. when i went through the list of middle names, i skipped right over it, because i was knocking out all the two syllable ones automatically (i'm usually not a fan of 2 and 2 together), but celeste works since the stress is on the second syllable. i like the repetition of the /el/ and agree that it definitely sounds alluring/mysterious. i think zelda celeste might be my favorite. hmm...i actually kinda wish it were my name.

regarding myself and video games, i'm afraid i can't really classify myself as a "gamer," as i haven't owned a game system since nintendo 64. granted, i still have my n64 and my nes, and i still play them on a regular basis, but my knowledge of video games (for the most part) ends there. so i can guide you through super mario bros 3 or ocarina of time, but i can't tell you much about any game created in probably close to the past decade. but they were a big part of my childhood, so i have many fond memories (i was the kid who was curled up with anne of green gables AND playing mario kart--a very odd child, really). oh, and ditto on your statement that zelda was a groundbreaking, complex, milestone type of game. hurrah. :] however, i have *heard* of silent hill 2, and from what i can gather, it's rather a neat sort of concept and story.

I grew up on Legend of Zelda and still think the name would be adorable on a little girl today. Go for it!

You can mine Silent Hill 2 for art history, that's how clever it is. Unfortunately, it's not particularly germane to names. Obsidian is strong in overarching theme, and Star Control 2 for its tight design and pacing, but once again, not particularly good sources for names.

It makes me wonder, though, about how names migrate from entertainment sources to general use. Did the first users of Vanessa and Wendy get eyerolls and the earlier-century equivalent of calls of "Ha, fangirl!"? If not, why not? What can elevate an invented name off the work of art into general use?

hmm...excellent question. i can't really see the difference between early users of wendy and someone using, for example, the name hermione today. i know hermione isn't invented by rowling, but i think it would be considered by many to be a "fangirl" name. hmm. i'm leaning towards early-century eyerolls. it seems probable. until the name wendy caught on, and then it gained acceptance. i assume the criteria for elevating such a name from the work of art into general use is how easily it fits into current trends. for example, hermione has not taken off, despite the overwhelming popularity of harry potter, presumably because it doesn't have sounds that are currently well-liked. but wendy did, so it was brought into general use.

okay, i've decided that i'm really liking the repeated /el/, so my final choices are zelda celeste for the mysterious, smokey vibe or zelda penelope for the bouncy, spunky vibe.

Does anyone have a link to the comment thread Amy3 refers to about Henrys with mothers who are librarians?

(Add me to the list, I guess. :) )

Yeah, I'm with emilyrae on her opinions. Zelda Celeste is from a far-off land and wields a sabre, while Zelda Penelope wears a polka-dot pinafore dress, walks a cute little dog, and carries a baseball bat.

Actually, now that I think of it, there has to be a way to go from story to the real world without calls of fannishness, because of the history of Madison (Splash) and Peyton (The Hand that Rocks the Cradle).

So, what's next? Renesmee? Arwen?

Hmmm-- now that you've added "Peregrine", Lorien, I heartily endorse that one as well-- again, in the position right after Kai. It's another under-used, interesting traditional I considered using myself. Sounds great with all your names too...

Catching up---
the other Amber-Did I read those correctly? Malibu?

Guest@84-Some names that are currently 600 or less that may be popular in another 10-20 years would be imo=
Sloane
Carleigh
Kianna
Laurel
Kenley
Laylah
Karsyn
Shayleigh
I think many of the same names that are popular now will have some other variations move up in the charts. They probably wont be in the top 50 but they will move up. Also I dont forsee many of the top "sounds" changing to much but I could be wrong about that.

Guest@85-Ideas for you:
Lydia Claire (one of my new fvs)
Juniper Nicole
Piper Finley (thanks to guest@84)
Amelia Charlotte
Haper Christina
Lydia Camille
Gabrielle Louise
Amanda Faith

A Rose: HA HA HA-violin gender checking! Glad you liked my list though :)

Landry:Top 25 names for my "fantasy kids"
Fairly easy because I like many of the names.
Joshua David
Samantha Grace
Natalie Alexis
(She almost WAS a Samantha)

Clemetine-I associate only with the video game. I would go for something like Zoe or Zara but Zelda is "too out there" for me. Even Hilda would make more sense but it's nms really. If you absolutely love Zelda then Zelda Celeste or Josephine would be my picks.

Lorien-I like Augustine, Xavier, or Blaise. I like them mostly for flow reasons but also think the FN Kai needs to stick with a slighty more extragvagant/exotic MN (i.e. Mark just does not work for me).

MelissaM-I will say first off that I am a little sad that your former picks have been put to the side. I was partial to Thomas Edward but alas its ultimately your choice. Charles is a great name and goes well with the others. Gabriel goes well with the others too but something about it doesn't seem right to me. How about Thomas Gabriel?

jenjenjen-That was 2 or 3 threads ago. I'm sure if you were to search Laura's blogs and use "librarian" it would turn up.

Thanks to everyone whose posted name lists. Very interesting all of them.

zoerhenne and Clementine:

Based on your discussion of Zelda and Hilda, what is your opinion of the name Cassilda?

Lorien, popping in quickly here--I would say that pretty much even emphasis is put on both syllables in Korean names. If anything, I would say slightly more is put on the first syllable, but it's not a strong emphasis.

I love a lot of your MN options. Augustine is still my favorite, but Peregrine is pretty irresistible, too. I also liked Emmanuel a lot, but I see that fell off the list. If you're doing one of the longer MNs, I like it right after Kai (Kai Augustine Long-Soon D.). For the shorter ones (I really like Joah, Blaise, Joseph, James), I think it sounds better to put them in the 3rd spot (Kai Long-soon Joah D.). Not sure how much help I was--all your choices are fun, it's hard to pick--I guess Augustine, Peregine, and Joah would be my top three, in that order--but it's close.

Re: hyphens--we chose not to use one in our daughter's Korean name because my DH *does* have one, and has found it to be a hassle sometimes, For instance, some banks and some ticketing sites don't accept hyphens, but his passport has one, so then we show up at the airport and his ticket/credit card don't match his ID, and they make a big fuss about it--not good if you're running late for a plane. That's just one little real life example. Plus, spelling out your name with a hyphen every time in it seems a bit clunky, another inconvenience level beyond just "Anne with an E" or whatever. So, if you can easily avoid it, I would.

MelissaM--I think Charles and Gabriel are great!! Really! :)

Names overheard at the park: 2 boys (probably brothers), Sylvan and Gray.

Linnaeus-I am not familiar with Cassilda. I looked it up and found it to have some interesting history and fantastical references. It also seems it has been given to a few people who have Facebook pages and the like. I think just on the basis of sound/look/etc. of the name itself I'm not a big fan. I prefer Camilla, Cassidy, Cecelia, and others. Cassilda trips me up a bit when I say it and makes me want to say Cassilla which sounds like Casserole or Psyllium. It also might get shortened on the playground to "Silly" which I would not care for.

jenjenjen: The August 13 blog entry, comment #185 is the first reference to librarians naming their sons Henry.

Sibling names at the doctors:
Genevieve
Margaret
Jacinta
and a boy I couldn't remember!
I put them in order of oldest to youngest I think. The boy was the oldest actually, and Jacinta was around 4. I remarked to the mother that they were such unusual and pretty names. She thanked me but then had to go so we couldn't talk further.

More park names:

*Theodore and George Michael (sibs)
*Mila (pron my-luh, spelling unknown)
*Angelina and Gabriella (sibs)
*Sophia
*Aubrey

A friend just gave birth to a Henry this morning. Another dear friend will be giving birth shortly to another Henry. And one of them is a librarian. . . :)

A few of my thoughts on the blog post . . .
I do think Peyton/Payton is going to fade in the next years -- it seems to be past its peak here.

I concur Rowan (as much as I like the name) seems to be slipping over to the girl's side. I'm nervous to use it, and it sounds like many others are, as well. It's still on my list, though.

I would probably have added Oliver to the list - it seems similarly popular to Henry in the same crowds of people.

Jack just misses the criteria at #39, but it was my first thought.

@ Lorien: I love Kai Augustine Long-soon Deitrich as well! I really like Musette! Thanks!

@ Amy3: Thank you, and I do like Vincenzo (although I like Vinny/Vinnie better than Enzo for a nn), I know a kid named Vincent who occasionally got called Vincenzo (well, only by our math teacher, but others of us picked it up).

@ Clementine: Zelda is one of the few 'z' names I'm actually not hugely fond of (but I really like the others on your list, especially Juniper, Violet, Clementine, Penelope, and Florence. To me, Zelda isn't the video game (which I've heard of, but don't even know what it's about) but is one of Sabrina the Teenage Witch's aunts (I can't remember if she's the down-to-earth one or if that's Hilda.)

@ MelissaM: I think all those names go very well together, and the nn's do too! Great choices!

New Baby Alert: Hayley Rose, sister to Hayden Christopher (age 2). Parents were also considering Victoria.

<< I think Jane is a good guess as the next big middle name. Or perhaps Anne or Claire. Parents seem to love 1 syllable middle names.>> Wahhh -- my daughter's middle name is Jane, and people wrinkled their noses. How plain, blah, out-of-date, they said. Why not Rose or Grace?

But the rise in 1-syllable middle names could be two things. Either it's a rehash of the 1970s Lynn, Rae, Lee, Ann "filler" middle names, or, in my case, it's the problem of unwieldy hyphenated last names that demand a short middle name. Who wants to be Anastasia Isadora Fromage-Bleu? It simply has to be Anastasia Grace Fromage-Bleu to fit on all those forms.

More from me later, when I've read all the comments.

Hayden and Hayley? Wow, that's quite the combo. Interesting that the other option was Victoria. I'd love to know the thought process there. Did they decide that they wanted the matchiness, specifically? Or that they'd stick with the sound they liked rather than going with something they liked less?

F@zoerhenne - it's funny you mention Kianna as a future up & comer... there's a baby girl with that name in my Moms & Babes storytime. I'd never heard it before.

My little guy (5 months) is Jasper. We decided on it 10 years ago and I have been keeping my eye on its popularity. I cringed when I found out that it was used in Twilight, but we loved the name so much that we went ahead and used it. Now we have to figure out what to name any little brothers or sisters.... it's going to be hard to find something to measure up!

Phew, too many sub-threads to follow up on any one. I will say that I looked at Laura's list of 2019 names and thought, weird, those are already top 10 names. Then I realized I live in one of the most bohemian-straight-people parts of San Francisco, and of course people here are ahead of the curve --- still on a curve they don't realize or wish to be on, even if ahead!

Lots of Eleanors around here, by the way. It's the new Isabel. But still a great name I would use in a heartbeat, with no nickname.

As to Henry -- in 1995 a friend of mine had a daughter he named Lucy, followed by a son named Henry a couple of years later. I remember thinking how charmingly elderly these names sounded. Now they are a dime a dozen, but really, what is not to love about them anyway? They have a lovely Chronicles of Narnia vibe.

@ Frogs&Snails, Jasper is also the name of singer Brad Paisley's new baby. He's named after Brad's grandfather who introduced him to music. I love that name, and think it deserves to become a little more popular.

Has anybody mentioned Charlotte? I could easily see that name on the Top Ten list for 2019. There are little Charlottes everywhere I go these days. I don't know whether it's the Sex and the City vibe (Charlotte was the "good girl" who ended up with a great husband who adored her, plenty of money without having to work, and two gorgeous kids) or maybe the cute nickname Charlie? Any thoughts?

@ Beth the original: I know a girl who's fn is Jane. Everyone calls her Janie which is (imho) better and more modern-sounding.

re Eleanor: I totally just realized I knew an Eleanor a few years back, she would be around 9 now. I also totally agree with people that Charlotte and Oliver should be on the list.

Just realized interesting sibset I'd like to post. I want to see if anyone can guess what decade they were born in.
Lincoln (Linc)
Andrew (Andy)
Eve

Just thought of it because Lincoln was on Laura's list. I saw the whole article, interesting, I had no idea I could get it until my mom clipped it from Parents (I had no idea she got Parents) and gave it to me yesterday.

Everyone who is nervous about Rowan as a boy's name should remember, names only "go girl" when they stop getting used on boys. Though unisex, names like Jordan and Cameron are still solid boy's names, because parents haven't given up using them on their sons.

Rose, I would guess 1970's for Andrew and Eve, but Lincoln throws me for a loop - I'll guess they were born in the 90's.

Haddison: I mentioned Charlotte because it is showing up here in the Midwest, which means it has definitely started to seriously spread from the coastal states, where it is already quite popular.

Thanks to those who commented on the MNs. It seems the consensus is that the longer names go best as the first MN, and I'd have to agree after saying them a few times. I like Peregrine enough to even use it as a FN, but I don't have the guts to actually do that. I do love the NN Pippen, but then, I am a serious Tolkien fan. (I don't like the idea of naming kids after fictional characters, or I'd use Eowyn for a girl in a heartbeat.)

Anyway, I'll see which names DH likes best and work on getting the list narrowed down a bit more. I think we're making progress here! Btw, Emmanuel is still in the running, but I love it as the combo Gerard Emmanuel, so I may hedge my bets and save that one for another day. (Yes, we hope to have a large family!)

I named my son Henry and I wish I was a librarian! :P (I'm a Stay At Home Mom with an English Literature degree.) The children's librarian at our local library has told me that she loves the name Henry. :)

Lorien, I went back and found your comment. Interesting to hear Charlotte is popular in the Midwest. I am in the East (mid-Atlantic state), and it's the new Emma out here, after Sophia and Isabel.

I saw with interest that you had Blaise on your list of potential middle names. I am hearing that one much more often these days, as a first name, though.

Now that the second "Sex and the City" movie is coming out, I was thinking about the characters' names. By the same token that Charlotte is becoming much more popular as I mentioned in my last post, is it possible that the name Samantha is getting less popular because of the notoriety of the Samantha Jones character, who lives for casual sex? Same for Miranda, which is a name I absolutely love, but is borne by a rather cynical character in that series. I haven't heard of any new babies or little children around here by those names for a few years now, although there were lots ten years ago. Any thoughts?

Zelda is definitely a video game name to me, but your daughter can grow into Zelda and make it her own... other kids will never make that association. I'm cheering for you

(BTW, Thanks to all who post playground and school names... my favorite part of the blog comments :) )

A couple of names overheard at the park/zoo recently: Django (Caucasian boy), Rocket (Asian boy). I think they were both about 5-7 years old. My husband had (semi-seriously) suggested Samantha Rocket when we were trying to pick names for our first daughter, which I thought was pretty spunky. Now that we actually heard it used IRL, we agreed that it's definitely off the list (esp for a boy)!

For our upcoming boy, my DH Theodore suggested Nathaniel. It's interesting, not super common but still normal sounding. But is it too close to my name (Natalie) and weird to have two of the four of us with same initials? His top 3: Alexander, Nathaniel, Zachary. My top 3: Henry, Jonah, Felix--all of which have been nixed by DH :( Any other suggestions for sib for Amelia?

I think my problem with most boy names is I like the full names, but don't care for the nicknames...Nate, Tommy, Jimmy, Zach, Hank, Gus, etc. so it makes me hesitant to use a lot of the names on my list.

Haddison, I'm not sure that the popularity of the SATC characters' names is influenced by the personalities or actions of the characters in the show. If people will choose Laci or Caylee for their daughters after hearing them in lurid news stories, I'm not sure that the sexual antics of a fictional character would deter them. I think that TV shows influence names because the names enter the zeitgeist. Not everyone watches "Grey's Anatomy," but it's hard to escape hearing about it. Even someone not tuned into names at all would be hard-pressed to avoid the chatter about popular TV characters like Addison. (I've never seen either SATC or Grey's, but know the characters' names. I'm admittedly a name freak, but I do think that expectant parents searching for the perfect name might hear one of these names on the morning radio show and think, "What a ___ (insert adjective here) name!")

About Jane:

Does this Jane-as-a-middle-name boom reflect that lots of grandmothers are Janes?

goldenpig-Nice to see you back posting again. I came up with these ideas for you:
Lucas
Adam
Simon
Miles
Curtis
Ethan
Paul
Isaac
Joel
Ross
Elliott
Gavin
Connor
Cooper
Griffin
Reid
Alistair
It seems you need a 2 syllable name that doesn't shorten to a nn easily, so that's mostly what I chose. Let me know.

@ Guest 189: Close (actually not really close at all) they were all born in the '50s, Linc being the oldest, born in '55. I just thought that was interesting. They were my dad's neighbors and (I assume) all born in (at least grew up in) western Conn.

Elizabeth T., thanks for your input. I was thinking of two examples: Marilyn, which is not part of the current "classic movie star name" wave like Ava, Audrey, and Grace, in spite of Marilyn Monroe's icon status. And Monica, which was on an upward trend in the late 1990s until the Lewinsky scandal.

I still think that most (non-celeb) parents prefer not to give girls names associated with overt sexuality. The Samantha character in SATC has gotten a great deal of publicity over the years, especially after Kim Cattrall wrote a well-publicized book on female sexuality. I think a present-day couple telling their friends that they were naming their daughter Samantha would definitely get at least one person saying, "Like that chick in SATC who sleeps with everybody??"

Samantha was on its way down anyway after a period of megapopularity following the cute, sweet little girl character on "Who's the Boss", but I think this association is hastening its departure.

Parents naming their children Laci or Caylee might not only like the names, there may also be an element of honoring the beautiful and innocent lives of their bearers, which were cut short.

I'm wondering if Mackenzie is going end up one of these names due to this week's revelations by Mackenzie Phillips? From now on, the first thing people will think of when they think of her will be her sexual history.