This is really fascinating. The time lag between usage for babies and usage for characters in fiction suggests to me that authors, by and large, are actually being pretty conscientious about giving their characters age-appropriate names (since, I assume, most characters in fiction are adults). So the Amandas that are popping up in fiction now are probably 20- and 30-something Amandas, right in sync with Amanda's baby-name peak in the early 80s. I used Amanda for a 20-something character in a short story myself—it's one of my favorite 80s names.

I think this is particularly interesting in light of the discussions we've had about anachronistic naming in TV shows like Grey's Anatomy (e.g. Addison), or the Twilight series (Meyer has said that Isabella is the same name she would have chosen if she'd had a baby girl). From the frequency of those complaints, I would have expected to find that baby names and character names would peak at about the same time. But it looks like we need to give writers a bit more credit.

So sorry to hijack this post ... as book nerd I love literary topics ... but I posted this comment at the end of the last comments and wanted to make sure it got some viewing. My apologies!

We're having another baby! Our first three start with vowels - E, A, and I. It wasn't intentional, but at this point, I feel like we should at least consider if we like any other vowel names.

Looking for O and U specifically (and sometimes Y?) We lean toward slightly traditional, old-fashioned, but a little rare names. But honestly, at this point we just need to know what is out there. O and U are a bit tricky. I do adore Olympia (nn Olly) for a girl, but the only U names I can think of are Ulysses and Ursula. Not so keen on either.

Also, we do like a few other E, A and I names, but I've always liked the idea of each kid having their own first letter, especially since my current kiddos each have some letter decor in their rooms.

Thoughts? Much thanks in advance.

--Liesl--

I like Olympia. It sounds almost regal. :) I also like Unity or Opal for a girl.

For a boy, what about Oliver, Orson, Oscar, or Otis? The only U name I can think of is Ulysses. Sorry. :(

sort of in response to EVie: maybe it depends on the kind of literature it is, for example, if the author (and readers) is more interested in style or realism. i guess i was thinking at first that maybe TV is more about style and literature about realism, but i guess it could vary in either media.

Liesl: Also, Olive and Orly. I think I like O names too! (Olive was our top choice, but I think has been knocked down. I love it, but my husband doesn't.) I think U is hard... I didn't go looking for O names, but found ones that I loved. U... not so much... oh wait, I think there was an Uli (sp? Ulli? Ully?) on Project Runway. I think she was German or something. I thought it was a cute name (rhymes with Julie iirc); not sure if it was short for something.

Laura-A fascinating topic as always. Unfortunately with the busyness of the holidays I cannot devote the proper time it would need to explore the graphs of the many names I have circling my mind. I will get back to you in the future about any fun trends I find.

Leisl-The first thoughts on O names were Olivia and Owen. U is tricky as I can only think of the ones you already thought of. I don't think you have to stick with vowels though. You already have and E, A, and I. Is there a nice word or phrase you can make with the initials you have plus another. It wasn't intentional but my family's initials spell something and its kind of a cute connection.
I Love Each And Every One
Isabelle; Leisl; Ethan; Alexis; Eric; and Owen for example (with Leisl and Eric being you and DH for example) Good luck!

There is also Umberto and Uri for boys and Uma for a girl?

O: Opal, Ophelia, Octavia, Orla.
Otis, Oscar, Owen and Oliver. Personally I like Otis ;)

Leisl:
Girls: Octavia, Ooma, Onali, Uma, Una, Yvette, Yvonne, Yasmin
Boys: Otto, Ocean, Omar, Orion, O'Ryan or another O'xxx name, Ulric, Uriah, Yves, Yorick (Alas, poor Yorick...)
that's all I can think of right now.

Jeff, Jeffrey, Geoff, and Geoffrey

There's a sudden peak of the J version of the name between 1940 and 1960, then it levels off again before a slow rise in usage staring in the 1980s.

Leisl:

I was also going to recommend Octavia too.

For O:
Odelia, Olwen, Onora, Oriane, Ottilie.
Orrin, Olaf, Orlando, Orson
For U:
Ulrika,
Uri, Uriah

liesl - there's always Oona or Una. I've always loved the names, and they are very old fashioned, though they look modern with their spellings.

Liesl - what are you other children's names? That might help us in getting a sense of what might appeal to you.

I've met an Uli as well, also German but male—short for Ulrich.

Those are not my favorite letters, but here are some thoughts (sorry if I duplicate ones already suggested):

O: Oona, Opal, Ophelia, Octavia, October, Oriana, Orly, Orla/Orlaith, Ottilia, Ottilie, Olwen, Orchid; Orpheus, Orion, Odysseus, Omar, Owen, Olaf, Octavius, Oberon, Obadiah, Orlando, Oren/Oran/Orrin, Otis, Otto, Osric, Oswald

U: Uma, Una, Unity, Undine; Ulrich, Uriah, Urban, Uriel, Uther

Y: Ysa, Ysabel, Ysabeau, Yvette, Yvonne, Ysemay, Yael, Yelena, Ysolde/Yseult, Yesenia; Yves, Yoel

My far and away favorites would be Ysemay and Ysolde/Yseult—medieval variants of Ismay (itself a medieval name no longer much in use) and Isolde. I would also very much appreciate October, as well as some of the more archaic O boys' names like Oberon, Osric and Octavius. Uther would also be interesting to hear on a child (Uther Pendragon was the father of King Arthur. His wife was Igraine, which is also sometimes spelled with a Y—e.g. Ygrayne, in Le Morte d'Arthur—so there's another Y-name.)

Oops, I meant Oona, not Ooma. Can't edit when nli...
Otis is great, reminds me of the movie Milo and Otis, which is so cute.

My daughter's name is Olive, and we are considering Eve for the next one. Do you think the fact that they both end in the "-ve" sound is too matchy?

Odette and Odile (if you like Swan Lake, now gaining attention in the Black Swan film), Ulf (Nordic form of Wolf), Uli/Ulla are short for Ulric(k)a, Octavian, as opposed to Octavius (had a colleague with Octavian as a second middle name), Oceane (popular in French-speaking countries), Orville (Wright and Redenbacher), Oswy (King of Northumbria), St. Oswin (son of Osric, King of Deira), Ugolino (Italian nobleman depicted as a cannibal in Dante's Inferno--ewww)--several choices there for those who like extinct medieval names....

Thought of another name, biblical this time--Omri. Speaking of literary names, Omri is the name of the protagonist of the very popular children's book, The Indian in the Cupboard, and its sequels. Omri's brother is named Gillon. I would assume that these names stem from the author's own experience living on an Israeli kibbutz. The author Lynne Reid Banks also married an Israeli.

Bringing the topic back to books, I wish that there was a way to separate out children's books specifically. Using Amanda as a contemporary character is perfectly in line with baby-naming - but only if your character is 25-35 years old. I can't tell you how many children's books I read where the kids are named Nicole and Jennifer, or some other name that was clearly the names of the author's friends when s/he was in school. Today's chapter book readers are far more likely to be Madison or Emily (boys names, being less trendy, tend not to be as obviously anachronistic.) I can't tell whether it's an actual issue or whether I'm just noticing the "wrong" names because they stand out more.

Usually "anachronistic" character names bother me only when they're totally out of place for someone of their generation (such as the middle-aged female Mackenzie that Laura Wattenberg mentioned). As long as the name is realistically plausible for when they were born I think it's okay (but IMO it's best not to give too many of the other similar-age characters names from ahead or behind their times). For example, if a story set in the current times were to have a young-adult Emma or Nancy (the former ahead of the times, the latter behind) it would be okay IMO, but something like Nevaeh would not be (unless the name was chosen for some other reason). Likewise for a story set in the distant (100+ years or so) future names that were popular from various points in the past could be used but don't use too many from any one given past era.

Liesl - Another option for a girl 'O' name is Ondine.

Other vowel names (some of these might be repeats--I didn't read all suggestions above):
Yvo (a variant of Ivo)
Yelena
Yekaterina
Yesenia
Yevgeniy(a)
Ylva
Yuliy/Yuliya/Yuliana

Ulrik(a)/Ulric(a)
Urban(a)
Uliana
Undine
Ursa

I have fantasies of a vowel theme myself, since many of my favorite names seem to begin with vowels, and I'm already off to a solid start with 1vy and 0liver. I think next I'd go for Anthea/August, Eleanor/Everett, Ursula or Ulla/Ulric, and then maybe Yelena/Yulian. U and Y are definitely hardest, though.

Re: the last thread--hi, Lorien! Good luck with your next baby. :) Gerard isn't quite my cup of tea, because it still sounds a bit stiff/fussy to me, although I like it better with the UK/Aus pronunciation (almost like Jared). Maybe Jared would work as a tribute? I'm sure Gerard could grow on me if it were on a real kid, though.

Speaking of the UK pronunciations, is Marie pronounced like Mary there, with the emphasis on the first syllable? I just heard a song that I could swear is using that pronunciation for Marie, and it blows my mind. I used to know an older Australian woman named Marie, and I'm sure she said it with the emphasis on the second syllable....

I wonder about immigrants who take anglicized first names. I meet many Asian college students in my job with names like: Susan, Anne, Grace for the women and Jason, Benjamin, James for the men. Their noticeable accents belie these being their given names. Are there trends that describe these name choices? Are they different for immigrants from various areas?

Ooo, Laura! A game after my own heart.

Well, Stephanie was a literary fad-name between 1880 and 1900.

I'm not sure what else to say.

A female Ulli is probably short for Ulrike - German name, female form of Ulrich. I think Ulrich is very usable, and Uli is a snappy nickname.

Ugo is the Italian form of Hugo - but it has car problems, so I would not recommend. (Incidentally, Hugo is a name that I'm surprised not to see on more babies!)

Umberto is the Italian form of Humbert, and while Humbert seems like it is not due for a comeback, I think Umberto has rather a bit of flair and I think it's very usable.

Urban/Urbain/Urbano are usable, I think. The original Urbanus, sadly, is not.

Uriah could work for other people. I just think of Urea, a compound excreted in the urine. Thanks, physiology classes I've taught. Urias is better for me. Or Uriel.

Urien is more unexpected and I think very fresh and I really quite like it on reflection. It's Welsh and features in Arthurian legend (he was the husband of Morgan Le Fay).

For girls: Undine. Unice is a variant of Eunice. If you're considering Olympia, perhaps Urania? And I love Ursula.

Bringing the topic back to books, there seems to be a class of plain, classic English women's names that have steadily (or even sharply) increased in use in literature even as the names sharply decline in "real" usage- Jane is the strongest example, but Ellen, Rose and Alice all follow the same pattern.

Others seem to jump in literary use a full decade or more before baby-name prevalence- see Lucy, Sophie and check out the sudden jump in the use of Eve in literature in the 1990s.

Anybody have any theories about this? It doesn't work for all names like that- Charlotte, for example, doesn't jump significantly before its return in the baby name charts.

And why has Peggy experienced a steady increase in literary use since the 1980s?!

This is fascinating, Laura- thank you so much for posting this!

jAnet3: I don't find Olive and Eve too matchy.

Thanks for all of the comments in the previous thread on Freya! Here's my take on it so far, fwiw:

It's the name I "mind" the least that my husband has selected. He really, really loves it, and I want to give it a fair shot before dismissing it entirely. I think it's interesting and sort of cool, and I don't mind the goddess connection. Yet I'm not sure I *like* it.

Thing is, I feel like I should like it more than I do. I want a name that's unusual, but not long or hard to spell. I find it a bit clunky, but I'm actually digging several quite clunky names at the moment (Agnes, Ursula, Hazel), so it actually should fit with that. Yet, somehow I feel like it's trying to be light and pretty, but instead feels heavy, if that makes sense. I like that it feels a bit hip to people, but worry that we're not actually hipster enough to really pull it off. Finally, I worry about how close it is to "fea," which means "ugly" in Spanish. Can any Spanish speakers chime in as to how likely kids are to make that teasing leap? Because a really tease-prone name is pretty much a deal-breaker for me.

Oh, and can anyone think of any nicknames? I'm a big nicknamer (Sylvia evolved almost instantly into Sylvie, Silver, Vee-vee, Silly, Vika (for Sylvika), etc., etc.). Fay is kind-of cool, perhaps, but I can't think of much else.

Thanks!

Here's an O name and a literary reference-

I recently read "The Glass Room" by Simon Mawer, which was short-listed for the Booker Prize in 2010. It takes place during WWII and after and one of the main characters is named Ottilie. I've been taken with the name ever since and seriously considering it if I ever have a girl, though DH thinks it's a little odd. Happy to see it show up on some of the suggestions above.

I have been reading this blog throughout our long struggle and delighted that I can finally write in for some advice. We are expecting a baby boy!

I'd love to get the group's thoughts on our name ideas. My husband is pretty much set on Caspar, which I like but I'm not completely sold on. Our other ideas are Frederick, which was my favorite for awhile but now sounds a bit heavy and while I like Freddie, I can't stand Fred; and Oscar, which I guess is my safe choice if I chicken out on Caspar.

I've gotten some really skeptical looks when I've mentioned Caspar--some people have even asked if we made this up. Is it too "out there?" Is the Casper the Friendly Ghost reference still too alive?

By the way, the middle name will be my one-syllable maiden name (think Todd) and our last name rhymes with "Bells."

Laura, I love the idea of using the google tool, but it would take HOURS of searching to find any interesting data (and I don't have time, alas).

I am also loving the vowel conversation. I'm glad so many great names are showing up-- especially Oriana (which I was going to suggest but EVie beat me to it!) It is a minor name crush for me.

I also don't find Olive and Eve matchy at all.

Congrats Lea2!! Re: Caspar: there will be a whole bunch of comments about the friendly ghost, until the baby takes the name for himself. If you decide that you ARE sold on it, go for it. I don't think it is out there-- mainly because of the ghost connection. Oscar might be a very good compromise (make sure you hubby wouldn't have major namers regret though). Another compromise: Jasper? I like Frederick, but also dislike Fred, so I'm with you there.
Other ideas: Tomas, Conrad, Felix...

And, I had a fun talk with a friend who is pregnant-- they want to keep their names secret, but did mention they were considering Roma for a middle name (which is a family name!!) They are LDS and are from Utah/Oregon so I think will be influenced by that fun naming area. :) Can't wait to find out their baby.

and a Student (mid 20's) of mine that is pg is going to use Ashton for their boy due in January, older son's name is Kohen (don't know about spelling).

Lea2-I would pick Oscar if it were me.

janet3-Olive and Eve together doesn't work for me.

I've been playing with the Google name tool for a few minutes just now. I found some graphs that are interesting to me. Madison, Addison, and Rafe. And take a look at Julie vs. Julia and Juliana vs. Julianna It shows a lot about popularity and usage of spelling trending towards different in todays times.

Lea2: I can't believe people are asking if you made up Caspar! I think if anything the ghost thing would be an issue, but even then, it's minor. I think it's come up before how the cartoon is old and kids born these days may not even know it. Plus, it's not a negative reference; it's just that it could be a dominant one. You know, the problem would be always being asked "like the ghost?" It wouldn't be a problem with teasing really.

nickname for Freya=Yaya?

janet3- The way that Olive has two syllables just brings to mind the 'Adam and Eve' rhythm for me. It seems like Eve would get sort of shortchanged as well, because Olive gets the exciting O and the l, while Eve seems like Olive with the front chopped off and an E added.

Pip- Freya could have 'Yaya' as RobynT suggested, also Fay or Fae as you said. Also: Free, or Ray/Rae?

Lea2-I'll toss out the Kasper spelling for your consideration.

It was my Great Uncle's name, though he always went by Ted, and for some reason, it's one of a very small number of names where I like the look of the K spelling.

"Hi," to all....haven't posted in ages as my time has been consumed by my own blog (totally not related to naming).

To Hyz at #19, my very English mother was named Marie, pronounced with the accent on the first syllable and rhyming with "starry." There was a popular English singer at the turn of the 20th century whose name was Marie Lloyd, pronounced the same way. The American usage now predominates.

It is remarkable how BabyNameWizard is always coming up with something new and interesting :) Always enjoy reading the new features here

Marie: It's the same old story. British English tends to impose the Germanic stress rule on French loan words, and American English tends to preserve the Romance stress rule. We saw the same thing during the recent discussion of varying pronunciations of Gerard and Bernard.

Lea2: I have long adored Caspar. It is a cute and underused name whose style fits well with the more trendy names. Oscar is neat too, but Caspar is a fabulous choice.

Liesl: I would like to second Uri or Yuri. Olympia is very nice though might be confusing with all of the Olivias out there. I know of a new baby name Odin, or October has a cute nn in Toby.

Just visit, thanks for the response. So I guess it's not quite just like Mary, but close--it's so strange to me! It's interesting that the pronunciation has changed to prefer the US/French way now, too.

Miriam, I saw that conversation, and I'm familiar with those pronunciation tendencies in general--I guess I just thought Marie would be immune somehow, because it's so common, or because of the religious associations, or something.

janet3 - I know a brand new baby Otto IRL, and it's adorable!

Lea2 - If you decide you love Casper, go for it. My nephew's name is Felix (actually she spelled it Phelix) and the comments only last a couple of months. Now, the name's all his!

justrachelmarie-Is there a reason your relative had for spelling Felix the way she did? I just think that the child will forever be correcting people and I was just curious?

@hyz, most of the Marie's I know are MARR-ee (rhymes starry). I do know some that pronounce it ma-REE though. Not sure if that helps or confuses the situation.

@Lea2 - congratulations!! I love Caspar. It's on my short list for a boy so I firmly vote for it. Yes, it has the friendly ghost association but people will get over that pretty quickly, and it's not a bad thing. I do like Oscar too but it's getting a bit trendy and popular in my parts. Frederick is one of those names I try to like but just can't because of family associations. I really dislike Fred but can see the appeal of Freddie.

I love a lot of the suggestions for O and U names. All my favourites have already been suggested, but I do think there are a lot of good picks there.

I have to tell you a funny story. My mum said to me the other day "I suppose this baby is going to have some old-fashioned funny name like Gertrude!". I had to laugh as yes, it probably will have an old-fashioned funny name in her eyes. While I quite like Gertrude, 'Gertie', I'm not brave enough to actually use that.

LOL Chimu! Is Santa going to give you (and vicariously US) the gift of being able to discuss names?

For a U boy, there's also Upton, as in Sinclair. I never see this one on lists, but I've always liked the name.

Off on a bit of a tangent--

We've talked about name remorse and name changing in the past. Today I was reading a thread on a poker forum in which one of the poker dudes asks for advice on changing his name. Since he only wants to go from something like Henry W. to H. William, I don't see how it's a big deal or would offend his parents, but whatever. However, among the responses this appeared, which I thought was interesting:

My son who is 7 hates his name. He would love to change his name to Jack. I am thinking about telling him , "If you what to change your name to Jack 2 years from now you can do it."

Adults change their names for various reasons, but elementary school kiddies?

Possibly letting a 9-yr-old change his name? Wow, I'd never do it. My daughter (who is 9) has occasionally told me she doesn't like her name and has implored me to change it (or allow her to). I've always said if she doesn't like it when she's 18, she's free to change it then, but not before.

lucubratrix -
I have a toddler, Hugo, and I get complimented on his name all the time... but i've ye tto meet another one.

I just read that Vince Vaughn has had a daughter named Locklyn.

Re children changing their names legally--

Like Amy3's daughter, I HATED my name when I was a young'un. Despite being somewhat mollified by the fact that the other names on the short list were Myra and Myrna and so I had gotten the best of a bad lot, if left to my own devices I would have changed my name to some sort of frilliana "princess" atrocity of my own creation. As it turned out, I matured and grew into my name and now appreciate my parents' choice. If I had been allowed to change my name as a child, I think I would have had to change it again as an adult. Somehow I don't think Professor Cinderella Cupcake or Sparkle Rainbow would have worked out too well. At least poker dude's kid wants to be Jack, which is an entirely serviceable name, good for a lifetime. He could be deviling for Spiderman or Severus Snape.

I definitely can't see letting a kid change their name when they're 9 (or 12 or 16, etc.). When I was 4 or 5, I desperately wanted to be Jenny, and a few years later, I wished I were Amanda or Samantha, and in high school, I would've been thrilled to have a nouveau hippie name. I'm glad my parents never succumbed to any of those whims--because that's what they were--whims. Unless the parent also feels that they made a mistake with their kid's name and it's clear to all involved that it's causing the kid problems (that poor Hitler kid would be an example), then I can't see allowing a change.

I definitely can't see letting a kid change their name when they're 9 (or 12 or 16, etc.). When I was 4 or 5, I desperately wanted to be Jenny, and a few years later, I wished I were Amanda or Samantha, and in high school, I would've been thrilled to have a nouveau hippie name. I'm glad my parents never succumbed to any of those whims--because that's what they were--whims. Unless the parent also feels that they made a mistake with their kid's name and it's clear to all involved that it's causing the kid problems (that poor Hitler kid would be an example), then I can't see allowing a change.