The Baby Name Wizard

I totally agree Laura. Justin is exactly a 7th grade boy no matter what era you are speaking of. Some of the other 70's names I enjoy Jeffrey, David, Conner, Brian are venturing into DAD territory as you say above. Kyle for me though is young as many of my son's friends (6th gr) and some younger in the neighborhood are now bearing this name.
What would be the female equivalent of this be or should I sit quiet until the next thread?

And since it's St Patrick's day shall we throw out votes for Patrick? I like the name but not it's nn's. Good mn I think.

Do you think that Mr. Timberlake will change the image of the name as he ages? Now, he's still hip and young (30) but is also a power player now that he has shifted from pop star to producer and actor. I don't see him fading into the background like Gaurini. Will a 40 or 50 year old Justin Timberlake make people view the name as more grown up?

I had one of those quintessential crushes on a 7th-grade Justin! 15 years later, I still occasionally check him out on facebook, where he typically depicts himself on a beach somewhere in sunglasses, khakis, and a polo. Still keeping up heartthrob appearances . . .

Young is just how this name reads for me. I don't know many, if any, Justins who are my age, but I'm struck by how many there are in my daughter's elementary school. It's easily one of the most popular boys' names there.

zoerhenne, you pose a tough question! Eternal youth is definitely hard to come by in a girl's name, since they fade in and out so fast -it's hard to think of one that's stayed young since the 70s! I was born in the 80s and, while many names from my generation - e.g., Natalie, Jessica, Alyssa - are still popular, they don't sound like 7th graders forever. I will say that my name, Molly, has stayed relatively constant ranking-wise for about 20 years, and sounds a little like an eternal preschooler name to me. Molly is always a sloppy 4-year-old.

But there's my problem - I can think of some names, maybe Samantha, Brianna, or Taylor, that have had a youthful image since the mid-late 80s tops, but I'm having trouble reaching back to the 70s or before. Hmm.

I agree with your characterization of it. It manages to seem always young, always current, and never stale, despite its run in the top 100 for the last 40 years. It also has a nice classic feel for me, probably mostly because of my childhood fondess for the book _Justin Morgan Had a Horse_ by Marguerite Henry--a loose biography set in the late 1700s. Looking at the SSA statistics as far back as they go, though, Justin probably wasn't a hugely popular name back then.

moll-I would bite on some of these but then when I check the NameVoyager the charts don't hold up. I could see Natalie or Alyssa as a preschooler, 7th grader or adult around here. Not the others. But these names were not even close to the popularity Justin already had in the 60-70's. I would also think something like Caroline. However, this has not experienced a consistent level of use through the 70-90's. So I'm still stumped also.

That's exactly why I don't like Justin. I can't picture it on anyone past the age of 17 or so.

Wattenburg hit the nail on the head with this blog. Justin is a youthful name that never seems to fade out of style. I agree with that...but I think thta Jason and Jacob are pretty close too.

Does anyone think it's too much to have sons named John and Jack? I'm pregnant with another boy and already have a Jack and the only boys' name that I really like is John. I know that Jack used to be a nickname for John but has since become it's own name. My husband wasn't even aware that Jack used to be a nickname for John until I told him.

For the John/Jack question check out the following: http://www.namecandy.com/name-lady/2009/11/05/john-and-jack-can-sibling-...

Justin is one of my favorite names. It does sound youthful, but not in a "I can't take anyone with this name seriously" kind of way. My daughter's middle name is Justine.

Maggie T, one of my close friends has brothers named Jack and John (Jack is the older of the two). As far as I know, it's not a big deal for them that Jack is a nickname for John.

Like so many others, I had a Justin crush when I was younger, too! Mine was a guy who was several years ahead of me in school named Justin Ricci (not pronounced like Christina Ricci, but like Ricky). It lasted several years - like 4th grade to 8th grade, if I recall correctly - and it was shared by just about every other girl in my school. I had never really thought about how long this name has been around and representative of every school girl's crush... how funny!

I'm gonna say that the equivalent eternal-youth name is Megan. It's not as popular as it once was, yet you still meet a little Megan here and there. The name just feels both young and timeless to me.

Nope, never had a crush on a Justin. Just Jeffs.

I have a work friend who named her first born Justin about 6 years ago. At the time I thought it was an odd choice as I hadn't come across too many young Justins but I can kind of see the appeal now.

@Moll, I had to laugh at your characterisation of Molly. I also see Molly as a 4 year old........ or a 90 year old as my husbands grandmother is Molly :)

Re eternally youthful girls names. I'd have to say something like Emma, Emily, Catherine/Cate/Kate, Sarah? I know lots of babies, toddlers, teenagers and mum aged people with those names. At least in the circles I travel in :)

Speaking of Sarah, good friends had their second child this week and named her Sarah Eliz@beth. Sister to J0nathan Edw@rd.

@MaggieT, I personally wouldn't use John and Jack for siblings as the connection is too obvious to me. I think that most people probably wouldn't be that bothered. I on the other hand am extremely bothered by a Hamish and James sibset I know and that is less obvious than John/Jack.

MaggieT : what about Jonathan??

I completely agree with Justin being a 7th grader! And I see Natalie and Megan as similar.

Any Justin I've met has seemed bratty to me and the two famous ones mentioned fit that, too. It does seem like a young name. I hope there is a girl version of this post. The names that popped in my head were Stephanie and Amanda. Both are on the downward slope, but still hovering around the top 100. I guess time will tell!

@MaggieT - I feel like Jack and John are too similar, too. I get that some name Jack as its own name, but I can't help but see it as tied to John. I like knp's suggestion of Jonathan. I quite like the name and a have a wonderful friend with that name.

i'm not sure that i agree that jason and kyle have fallen into "dad name territory." i guess i may be too old to judge; i should ask some kids their perception. i think i agree that brian is a total dad name. where does ryan fall in all of this?

My cousin is named Justin and he is an incredibly youthful 40-something. I wonder if his name has influenced his personality? ;) I find it interesting that the other version of this name, Justus, is so different in feeling. Much weightier and more serious, despite only two letters' difference.

this reminds me of the Biggest Loser, one of the contestant's is named Justin (Rulon's partner) and he's got to be at least 40+ with two kids and a wife and it sounded so strange to me, it didn't seem to match him as he's quite large and scruffy as well.

*NSYNC is totally my era so Justin will always remind me of Justin Timberlake.

Beth-Megan might fit the bill as a girls name equivalent I'll have to check the numbers.

RobynT-For me, Ryan falls in with the Kyle group. It is very popular around me and can be found on 7th graders, preschoolers, and Dads.

YAG-Stephanie and Amanda seem too date-stamped to me to fit the mold. The only ones I know (just a few btw) were born in the 60-70's. There are no preschoolers out there that I've seen.

MaggieT-Jack and John seem too similar to me. What is it about John that you like? If its the simplicity may I recommend Michael. If its the sound I'll suggest Conner. If its another J name you need, you might want Justin, James, Jordan, Julian, or Joseph. Let us know some of your maybe's or other criteria.

A general question about name data--

I think that occasionally someone will post the number of children that were given a particular name in a year, when the name/number falls below the 1000th rank. I thought the SSA only released data through the top 1000 ranks. Where do you get that additional information?

Barnacle: You have to dig a little to find it, but on the SSA site they have a downloadable zip file that lists names used at least five times (they don't go lower than that for privacy reasons) for each gender for the years the stats cover (since 1880). The page is at this link:
http://www.socialsecurity.gov/OACT/babynames/limits.html

I had no idea Justin was so popular! There was never a Justin in any of my schools to crush on.

MaggieT: John and Jack are too similar to me since I tend to see Jack as more of a nickname to John. I do like the suggestions in the namecandy link above of Sean, Ian, or Owen. the link there is not obvious. Jonathan is also good name, though all the Jonathans I know go by Jon.

Re: Ryan - I've been considering that name for a future DS. Compared to some of the other names discussed here (e.g. Justin, Kyle) Ryan has not dropped as much in popularity (#19 as of 2009). I liked it when I was younger, then took it off my list since it was so popular. I think the name's enduring popularity has made it a "new classic" that wears well despite being so common, and thus is back on my list. WDYT?

For some reason my middle & high school years (middle school 1995-98; high school 1998-2002) weren't overrun with Justins. I do remember in my 6th grade science class, we had 4 boys named Josh. And my freshman year I sat at a lunch table with 4 guys named Chris. Funny thing was each Chris was a different ehtnicity! So looks like "Christopher" spanned across ethnicities!

Thanks, KellyXY!

re: Ryan: I had crushes on at least 3 Ryans growing up. I think it is a great name, yeah I could see it being a "new classic." You might hate this, but I kind of like the idea of using it for girls too... I guess I'm just warning you that others may have that view also.

Beth, I think you hit the nail on the head with Megan. Megan and Justin have very similar popularity curves. And since Megan is, at its root, a nickname it does have a perpetually young feel to it.

what about the name sarah? i know so many sarahs, and i think its been very popular for more than 40 years.

I think the female equivalent of Justin has to be Ashley. It's been around for a while and been in the top ten for a long time but somehow it's hard to picture a grown woman named Ashley, even though I'm sure there are many.
Chief Justice Ashley Mendoza?
CEO Ashley Wilson?

see what I mean?
Brian and Jason are firmly dads to me, while Kyle and Ryan are still kid names even though I know some dads with those names. It's funny how that works.

Unlike Justin, there is one male name that, although it fits within the current naming trend, cannot yet escape it's aging image: Norman.

Ends with an "n." Two syllable. Easily nickname-able (Norm, Manny). Anglo revival qualities. But we're not quite ready for it, I sense.

Just the same, I'd be charmed to meet a seven-year-old named Norman. "My name's Norm. What's yours?" I imagine he'd say while squinting through his eyeglasses.

With this topic being a bit slow and me recently thinking about possible name candidates from family names of mine, I thought I'd drift OT and mention them.

For boys the only one (in the not-too-distant family) that strikes my fancy is Oliver. Luckily it's still not too popular where I live (although it has multiplied in popularity over the past several years).

For girls I have two candidates that I like: Catherine and Leah (the latter is "indirect" honoring but derived from the use of Lee on both sides of my family).

Any thoughts? (My rule is I'd consider using a family name only if I'd otherwise like it.)

My husband's name is Justin, so I don't really associate it with Guarini, Timberlake, or (thankfully) Bieber. I guess it seems a little youthful, but he wears it well!

KellyXY, Oliver, Catherine, and Leah are all lovely, classic names. Oliver is a little trendier over where I live, but it's an adorable name nonetheless. Catherine and Leah are both dignified and beautiful girls' names.

I agree with you on family names. While it's very noble to name your child after your beloved great-aunt Myrtle, it's no fun calling your child a name you don't like. I used to worry about that with Caroline, a name I was obliged to name my daughter or risk breaking a 10-generation tradition of alternating daughter's names (every Elizabeth had a Caroline, every Caroline an Elizabeth). In the 1970s it was the antithesis of the popular-girl names (all spunky, peppy things like Kelli, Jodi, Tracy, and Wendy), and I did not like it at all. But by the 2000s when I had my daughter it was right in style, and if anything a bit overused. Fortunately, I'd grown to like it on its own terms, so I used it. This turned out to be even more fortunate in that my mother, after whom my daughter is named, died in January and did not live to see my daughter's 5th birthday. I am very glad her name lives on.

totally agree with you, Justin is one of my favorite names.

A friend from Adelaide (South Australia) sent me an email with a list of children’s names from a family that featured in a story in her local paper (unfortunately no ages/genders).

There was a sibset that included the following:
Sontae
Samurai
Shae
Blade

and...

wait for it...

Chardennay

Extra special with the 'e' instead of an 'o' don't you think?

Now here's a couple more: eeeeeeek!

KellyXY-I agree that those names are classic. Oliver is getting heard on boards quite a bit. Leah is getting more popular where I am (PA-USA)and Catherine is never a bad choice. Are there others you like or are you definitely using a family name?

Beth-I like your story. Caroline is beautiful.

Penny-That list is something else. Seems like they like that (AY) sound. I wonder if Samurai is pronounced with that sound at the end rather than an (EYE) sound.

The one Justin I know today is exactly that guy, still, though he's now in his late 30s! I wonder if it's also the strong ends-in-N trend that helps keep this one going.

My brother notified me a while back about a new site started by a friend of his called "Nerd Baby Names". I forgot to post it, so I'm rectifying that now. If you have nerd tendencies and are unsure of what to name your child, this site is for you!

http://nerdbabynames.com/

(I don't think Justin makes the cut. Today's recommendation is Grimm.)

Elizabeth T., thanks for the fun link. I especially like his description of the pronunciation of Saoirse.

KellyXY, I think you have a nice set of names there (of course, we now have a young Oliver, so I'm biased). The name Oliver is maybe a bit more popular than we'd like, but it doesn't bother us, since we knew it wasn't going to be *un*usual in our circle when we picked it. We don't know any other Olivers personally, but we keep hearing *of* them out and about, so the likelihood seems high that he'll have another in one of his classes some day. C'est la vie. It's a name we both love, and it seems to suit him well (he's such a cheerful, friendly guy that we sometimes call him jolly Ollie), so we're happy. As between Catherine and Leah, I prefer the former. The whole name is of course very elegant and dignified, and I love Cate, Catie, and Cat as nns. Katherine (with a K, usually) also seems to be pretty popular in my area, but it's so classic that I don't think that would bother me, either. Leah is also solid, and I know it has some followers here, but it just has never excited me, for whatever reason.

@KellyXY, I also think you can't go wrong with the names you've listed. I love Oliver for a boy and certainly wouldn't let an uptick in popularity dissuade me from using it. I feel exactly as hyz does about Catherine and Leah.

KellyXY - I think all those choices are great. I love Catherine-with-a-C—it always feels very refreshing to me, very classy and elegant, whereas Katherine-with-a-K has more of a girl-next-door feel (although the Katharine spelling of course evokes Katharine Hepburn, which is also classy, but in a different way).

Re: Norman - Despite the -an ending, I don't think it really does fit into current trends, because of that -rm- consonant cluster in the middle. Of course, Justin has a consonant cluster, too, -st-, and yet it still manages to fit in. I was just thinking about this the other day, after someone (I think it was Beth?) mentioned it in the context of the -is names discussion, and I've been wondering—are all consonant clusters created equal? And also, is the aversion to consonant clusters an aural thing, or a visual thing? For example, Phyllis has a visual consonant cluster, Ph-, but you only hear it as one consonant, F-. So does Phoebe, though, and yet Phoebe is rising in popularity. Otherwise, Phyllis has no consonant clusters, nor do Doris, Lois or Mavis. So I don't think that explains their unfashionableness. Gladys does have that uncool Gl- (although Gladys stayed in the top 1000 longer than any of the others, into the late 90s!) But nowadays, Cl- is still acceptable, judging by the rise of Claire as well as of Chloe (there's a big cluster—three consonants visually, two aurally). And then there's the big rise of Charlotte, with it's Ch- beginning and internal -rl-

Other popular names with consonant clusters: Anthony, Christopher, Andrew, Gabriel, Christian, Jackson, Brandon, Jordan, Carter; Grace, Ashley, Brianna, Victoria, Gabriella, Brooklyn, Aubrey, Sydney, Audrey. These are all in the top 50.

Obviously, that leaves a lot more names that DON'T have consonant clusters, so I'm not challenging the theory. I'm just wondering whether there are some consonant clusters that are exceptions to the rule, and if there's any pattern to it. From what I can see, most of the acceptable clusters seem to be of those consonants that are on the "lighter" side—sounds like s, t, r, c, l. No Ms at all (sorry, Norman); some Ns and Ds, though more in the boys' names (Sydney being the major exception here); Bs mostly in Br- at the beginning of names, except for Gabriel/Gabriella.

I'm not sure I've actually concluded anything useful here. Oh well.

Also - things have been very slow around here lately. Is it just me, or are we missing a lot of regular posters? I can think of several familiar names that I haven't seen in awhile.

@MaggieT, I do think that Jack and John are too similar. I think you could get away with Jonathan - a great classic, I think. I have a friend in his late 30s who has always been Jonathan, not Jon.

@KellyXY - I agree with you about Ryan - it may be a new classic. People never tire of that name. I actually know several little boys named Ryan and I knew several little boy Ryans when I was growing up in the '70s!

@Beth - I love your story about Caroline. I'm sorry to hear about your mother.

@Chimu - can I make you share your list of names for your baby girl? I know we have the same taste so I am sharing mine below and would love to hear your (and everyone else's!) comments:

Astrid
Georgiana
Rosalind
Cecily
Olympia
Beatrix
Octavia
Thea
Esmeralda
Cordelia

I am really going to miss my list when I have to pick just one of these names. :-)

@EVie, I agree, it's definitely been slow and we are missing some regular posters. I like your analysis of the consonant clusters, and I think you're on to something when you mention it's "lighter" clusters that are fashionable today.

I also wonder if consonants are more appealing in boys' names because they provide a "stronger" sound? Most of the girls I know have names that are equal parts vowels/consonants or even skew to more vowels.

While they're pretty, some of those names feel almost muddy (like there's nothing to hold onto) as I say them whereas more consonant-rich names sound snappier and crisper to me. I'm well aware that many find lots of consonants, especially in girls' names, clunky though, so I suspect mine might be a minority view.

@KRC, what a great list! Of those listed, I adore Astrid and Beatrix. Octavia is a close second and Cordelia comes in third.

hmmm, I'd have to say, for me, the female equivalent of Justin would have to be Caitlin. I know there are Caitlins in their early or mid-20s and starting out as professionals -- I've met some. And everytime, I think, "why do you have a teenager's name?" (apologies to any Caitlins out there!) It's just one of those names that continues to sound natural on a baby but never seems to graduate to adulthood.

I agree it's been slow! I keep up with the reading but have a hard time posting because I've often got a baby in one arm while on the web.

I like the suggestions of Caitlin, Ashley, and Megan as "young" female names. The only question for me is whether they've been as consistently popular as Justin--something tells me they haven't, but I didn't get to look it up yet.

KRC--thanks for sharing your list! First, I want to say it's great, and I think I'd be charmed to meet a little one with *any* of those names. With that caveat, here are my reactions if I'm taking a more critical view, like if I were looking for names for my own kids. Love love love Beatrix and Rosalind. These are on my list too, so no surprise there. I think they strike the right balance of old fashioned and current, strong but elegant, artsy but still solid. Plus, I think they both sound deliciously British, lol. My second tier would be Astrid and Cecily--both awesome in their own ways (Astrid a little more strong and quirky and Nordic, Cecily a little more willowy and sweet and English). I love Olympia and Octavia--so hip and self-assured--but on somebody else's kid, because they feel a little too daring and unusual for me. I like Thea, but it feels incomplete to me--I want it to be Theodora. I just met a Theodora at the playground, actually, and thought she and her name were delightful. Georgiana is nice, but feels a little too southern belle for me. Still, I like how old fashioned it sounds, and Georgie is a sweet nn.

That leaves Cordelia and Esmeralda. I know Cordelia has strong proponents here, but it's not my cup of tea. The -elia ("eel-ya") suffix always sounds a bit squishy to me, and the word "cord" jumps out at me very strongly from the name, which sort of has a random noun quality to it, neither positive nor really negative. Here's a question, though. I've always pronounced Cordelia as cor-DEEL-ya, rhyming with Cornelia, but behindthename.com asserts that the middle syllable is DEL, not DEEL. Is that true? That could alter my whole perception of the name--I'd have to rethink it. As for Esmeralda, it feels both a little too Spanish and a little too quirky/whimsical/offbeat for me.

I am 36 and went to school with many Justins and know many thirty-something Justins! It seems like a dad name to me. Someone mentioned not imagining a grown up Ashley. I know so many women named Ashley, some very successful professionally!! So it's just all relative I guess.

Jenny

Thanks so much for your comments, hyz! I always find your commentary to be incredibly insightful! Beatrix has been one of my favorites for a long time, but I actually know two little Beatrices who are called Bea and that makes me think the nickname Bea would be too popular for me. Rosalind has the huge upside of being a play on Linda so the baby could be named after my mom. It really has no downsides for me. Astrid is a long time favorite and it's what I would have named my son Hugo if he had been a girl. And Astrid is far and away my husband's favorite. Like you, I love the Britishness of Beatrix, Rosalind and Cecily! But Cecily in my head is a little too close to the current trend of Cecilia/Celia. Octavia I can't get my husband to go for but he does love Olympia and we both like the nickname Olly - BUT I have a nephew named Oliver and although he is not called Ollie, it seems a little too close. And you are right - I would definitely do Theodora and call her Thea. Although, how would you pronounce Theodora - is it the-uh-DOOR-uh or TAY-uh-door-uh?

That's funny that you see Georgiana as southern - I never would have thought that. I think it sounds vaguely European. I fear that it is too close to Georgia, though, which I do think of as Southern, and which is also rising in popularity. I think there will be too many little Georgies for my taste.

I get what you are saying about Cordelia. I am new to liking it, but it has grown on me because it has that unique blend of girliness (the eelya ending) and darkness (her fate in King Lear). Esmeralda I am drawn to for many reasons, not the least of which is the variety of nicknames you could make from it. I currently like the idea of Remy. But I will probably never actually have the courage to name my daughter either Cordelia or Esmeralda.

KRC--thanks, and glad to be of any help! :) Quick response here, because I have to run in a minute. I don't know any Beatrices or (Ce)celias, and I haven't checked their stats, but I do hear them tossed around on the boards a bit, so I get your concern. Still, if either Beatrix or Cecily is the IT name for you, then I probably wouldn't let the soundalikes stop me from using them. Same with Olympia, actually, since it sounds like you and your DH both dig it (and that can be hard to come by!). Olympia feels too daring for *me*, but that probably has a lot to do with the fact that I'm attracted to its sound and style, but don't have any deep love or connection to it, I might feel like I was "trying too hard" if I used it. On the other hand, I think Hyacinth is at least as offbeat, but I'm just head over heels for it, so I'd strongly consider using it in the future. What I'm saying is that I think Olympia (and Octavia) are totally doable if they feel *right* to you--you can own it. And if Olympia is the IT name for you, I wouldn't let cousin Oliver stop me--I think they are different enough in sound and feel. As for Theodora, I've known a few, and they are always thee-uh-dora (soft TH), like Theodore. Georgiana sounds southern belle to me because I see it like Georgia (the state or the name) plus an extra dash of frills, but I could see it as European too, perhaps.