The Baby Name Wizard

I'm surprised at Gretchen and Mariela falling off the list.

I know a 2 year old Gretchen and Mariela is on our short list for another girl...

I also came across a young Gretchen at a preschool.

Neat! I'm actually surprised they collapse that much. I wonder if we will eventually see spellings with a t in the middle. If you saw 'Jaten' I think the most common pronunciation would be identical or nearly to the pronunciation of Jayden.

It gets even worse once you get out of the Top 1000.

Almost 185 variants of -aden! It is ridiculous.

http://community.thebump.com/cs/ks/forums/ShowThread.aspx?PostID=5292705...

Love Gretchen and Reuben!

Wow that's a lot of -ayden names. lol. I wonder if some of those Caidens are pronouncing it as Kai-den instead of Cay-den. (I knew a little boy who used that pronounciation.)

Shouldn't Magdalena be on the list of departed names? I think the last time it was out of the top 1000 was 1989.

That's a lot of -adens! What proportion of children born this year have one of these names, if you sum their individual rankings?

I, too, am surprised at Gretchen. And I am curious about the "t" in the middle variation on the '-adens' - i.e., Peyton, Breyton, Dayton, etc. I wonder if Jayten and Caiton aren't far off!

I can't take credit for ferreting out this link, but it was posted in a previous discussion and it definitely relates to this post, since it contains a combining of all the -aiden names that were given to more than 10 babies, using the beyond-the-top-1000 data.

http://community.thebump.com/cs/ks/forums/ShowThread.aspx?PostID=5292705...

Since the rhymes-with-Aidan phenomenon lends itself to creative spellings, it's actually even more widespread than the top 1000 data suggest. I'm stunned by Blaiden and Raiden and their variant spellings especially.

Also relevant is the work the same poster did with the Nevaeh variants:
http://community.thebump.com/cs/ks/forums/thread/52941698.aspx
As much as Nevaeh itself isn't my style and makes me think of the Nivea skin care line (I know it's pronounced NIV-ee-ah in the US, but in Germany I grew up with Niv-AY-ah lotion), I appreciate it more than I do Neveah and all the other derivatives where the backwards spelling is lost entirely. But what I really don't understand is how someone would in the creative repurposing of the original name end up with a name that spells something unflattering backwards (Devaeh, Evaeh, Sevaeh). I'm not in the habit of spelling names backwards, but for the Nevaeh and similar names, I naturally start thinking about it!

I'm surprised about Reuben. I follow the British birth announcements fairly religiously, and Reuben is popping up more and more, especially in upper-class newspapers. (I know we don't always follow the lead of the Brits, but we often do.) Also, Reuben obviously fits in with the two-syllable-ending-in-"en" trend for boys, which seems to show no sign of letting up. And of course it fits in with the biblical trend. Anyone else surprised by Reuben's decline?

I'm really surprised about Tia! With Mia being in the top 10 and names like Lia and Pia and Gia gaining popularity, you'd think people would still be holding onto Tia.

We had the same discussion about Reuben this morning. My exact words were, "I think Reuben has sandwich problems." I would guess the reason it is not taking off here in the US as much as in other countries is that in those other countries, it is not so intimately associated with the sauerkraut-meat-on-bread combo. I could be wrong... but I know that the sandwich originated in the US, so I would expect that it's not as popular an association in other countries, even if the sandwich itself emigrated. Otherwise, I totally agree, it has all the ingredients of a super-hit with the Biblical AND en-ending combination.

In other news, leafing through alumni magazines and picking out the name choices (a favorite game in our household) we found some great middle names.

One was a little girl with the middle name of Lagniappe, which is the term for a freebie given by a merchant - like the thirteenth bagel free when you buy a dozen, or the calendar fridge magnet with the company logo on it. She was born on tax day: I'm not sure if that has anything to do with it. It's an unusual enough word that most people won't have heard of it, and I'm guessing most people will just think it's a family surname.

The other was a boy with a second middle name of Skyewalker. The first two names were very much conventional if not super popular old classics, so I thought it was a totally fabulous twist to add in the Star Wars homage. A middle name is already pretty hidden from the world at large, and a second middle name more so.

People rarely include middle names in mentioning their children, but I was really happy that these two announcements did.

another baby name story from a new mom: i've said that my mother wasn't a big fan of olive's name. of course she's come around real quick. anyway, this has been a great occasion for me to ask her about other babies' names and her take on them. i think she doesn't like any of them! lol. my cousin's daughter is named allegra and my mom thinks it's weird because of the drug.

my mother's friend's granddaughter is named Ky@ni 3llys M@cey LN (not sure of spelling on M@cey). I asked my mom what she thought of the name and she said "so many Y's!" She then asked if Ky@ni was Hawaiian; my husband and I said we're not sure but we think that if not, the parents were probably still going for something "Hawaiianish." anyway i got to explain the popularity of the "Y" to my mom as well as the surname trend. (i'm having so much fun!) mom said maybe they are actually surnames from the family since they are from a Hispanic-colonized ethnicity and that's what Spanish do. I pointed out that neither surname is Hispanic... and said I wouldn't bet on it. my mom also said that girl's older brother is named something like Cy@n, but she can't remember the spelling and she knows it wasn't like the color. She also commented that she didn't know how to pronounce it.

then one of her coworkers handed out announcements for a baby named Xaiden (not sure about spelling). mom made a face for that one too.

anyway, all this is to say, there's just no pleasing grandmas!

I'm kinda sad at Reuben's fall. If I didn't already have a brother named Reuben, it would be on my list.

@lucubratix, I think you are probably right about the sandwhich association with Reuben. Here in Australia I don't think the sandwhich connection would occur to most people. I haven't seen it much here but certainly it pops up in the birth announcements for the UK.

@RobynT, glad your mum has come around to Olive's name :)

Like many of you, I'm pretty surprised at some of the fallen names as well. Gretchen especially! And also Dale - it's grouped stylistically in my mind with "Cole" which, last I checked, is still in the top 100. Do you think it's because the surname-turned-girl's name switch is all too easy for Dale? I know the "l" can feel like one of the softer (read: feminine) consonants.

Meanwhile, I'm still stuck on middles names for our next two kiddos. I know you guys are going to be sick of my back and forth, but since after this there will only be pet naming in my future, I just have to get it right!! ;)

Our #1 right now for Henry is Myer (my mom's maiden name). But Naomi has me spinning in circles.

Top of the list right now:
Violet*
Adele
Dell
Annette
Elise

*The only one that has no family significance, but it's always been a favorite of mine and I'm having a dickens of a time letting it go.

And of note - DH and I definitely prefer unexpected to expected, spunky to pretty, well rooted to trendy. But we are "only" talking about a middle name here. :)

I had the same reaction to Gretchen -- I know two under 5 and thought that might mean it was making a comeback. It's a sweet little name. I cannot say I am sorry to see Yasmine go. Hopefully Jasmine will follow.

The most popular name list made me smile sadly this year. My daughter Caroline, who renamed herself F1refly (insert an "i" where the 1 goes) likes to play pretend a lot. And when she does, whether she is a kitty or a fairy or an iguana, her name is Ava, Sophia, or Isabella. She has clearly identified these as the desirable names, or the names of desirable children in her school. The question is: is she picking up on a zeitgeist, or is it that if a given name is more popular, it is more likely to stick to a pretty, popular child as well as to other children, like splattering paint?

Who knows. All I know is I desperately wanted to rename myself Andrea in the 1970s. So there you go.

Beth-that's really cool to note about your dd's preferences. My dd is still in the -ina stage as in everything she picks "for her future children" ends in -ina.

RobynT-Not to make you unhappy, but why does Olive not follow a similar fate as Rueben?

alr-I think Naomi Adele has the best flow. How about a longer name like Antoinette, Delilah, or Cecelia/Cordelia?

DH just nixed Adele. :( In it's place is now Delia.

Naomi Annette (DH's fav)
Naomi Delia
Naomi Violet

Any of these strike you NEs?? :)

Does anyone know how the whole -ayden phenomenon got started? I've always been curious. It seemed to explode overnight.

Naomi Violet. If you love it, just do it.

@alr, I really like Naomi Violet (I know a sibset of girls with these as firsts), but I understand your wish to provide a link to the family for Naomi. Would two middles be out of the question? Naomi Violet Annette works nicely.

I might be the only one, but I'm sad about Addison. I had a little hope it would be around longer than Madison did for boys, but I guess it was inevitable. Thank you Grey's Anatomy / Private Practice!

I actually knew a Reuben, he went by Ruby. He was a kind kid

I like Naomi Violet best. If you really love it, I think that's enough of a family tie for your daughter--what better gift than something that is beloved and dear to her mother? I also really liked Naomi Adele--I think the flow is much better than Naomi Delia, plus I like Adele better as a name. Annette has the same flow, and it's a fine name, but combined with Naomi it sounds more middle aged woman than old fashioned/fashionable (I'm thinking Annette Funicello, Annette Bening). I think Annette could provide nice stability to a very modern/young type name (Chloe, Isabella, etc.), but might push already potentially mature Naomi a little too far.

Oh, and happy Mother's Day, everyone! :)

Now that I've got my blog back open to everyone, here's my post on my thoughts with regards to the changing patterns with naming boys vs. naming girls (and some predictions on upcoming trends):
http://millennialkelly.blogspot.com/2011/05/changing-baby-name-trends-fr...

Zoerhenne - your daughter and me, both, with the -ina names! :)

I think the reason Olive isn't painted with the same food association brush as Reuben is because Olive is a tree, and also a color, so it's a botanical and color name more than a food -- in my mind anyway. Olive as a baby name makes me think of the soothing shade of green and of olive groves way before it makes me think of pimento-stuffed olive trays in the deli. Also, I think that the vast popularity of Olivia has sort of paved the way for the food association to be less than the name association. I think Olive is a great name - and I'm glad grandparents are coming around to it!

But then, I'd also be delighted to meet a baby Reuben in this country as elsewhere. I do know a non-American Reuben, younger brother to a Benjamin, and I thought it absolutely fit - both are Biblical classics with very modern sounds. I might not have repeated a syllable, but that's quibbling.

alr - I like all your choices. The only one that stood out for me was Adele, which I love and might use in the middle slot for a little girl in spite of less than ideal flow with the one first name we can use it (others are SAG and HAG, which are dealbreaker-level bad initials). I get what others are saying about Annette, so I think Naomi Delia would be almost as lovely as Naomi Adele. I like the idea of having a connection to your family as the middle name, but I think it's up to you whether you consider that more important than using a name you really love.

This baby name advice blog I read recently had some interesting feedback for a similar situation, that you might also find relevant:
http://swistlebabynames.blogspot.com/2011/05/baby-naming-issue-dilemma-w...

@RobynT, my husband and I have chosen Olive if we have a girl, so I wanted to ask what your experience has been as the mother of an Olive. As a Laura who is constantly called Lauren, I know that a lot of people don't look at names very carefully, so I'm afraid that Olive might be called Olivia all the time. What do you think? Thanks!

The spelling Ruben is still on the list at #296. Not sure why the other spelling fell out of favor?

It appears the -aidens are (slowly) on their way out: Aiden, Caden, Hayden, Jayden, and Brayden and their assorted variations were down from 2009 for boys (although Raiden and Zayden were up still). For girls, Jayden, Hayden, and Kayden were also all down.

Re: Reuben - In a blog post last year Wattenberg described how this is one of those rare Biblical names that has had more success in Europe than America (with most Biblical names it's the other way around):
http://www.babynamewizard.com/archives/2010/2/the-view-from-abroad-a-loo...

While looking back at that post, I decided to see how well those "European gentlemen" names she mentioned continue to fare in America: Three of the five (Louis, Oliver, and Simon) have increased over the past two years while two (Hugo and Philip) went down. I think both of the fallers have reasons for falling: Hugo has the unfashionable "long U" sound (like Beulah and Hubert) and Philip like Wattenberg mentioned needs more time to come around under the "four generation rule" to have a decent chance at success. I also took a look at three other names that could fall in this category that I like (Felix, Leo, and Sebastian); all three have increased in popularity.

As I mentioned in the blog post linked to in post #26 of this discussion, I predict an overall shift over the next decade or so to less trendy and more classic names. In the "Old Testament vs. European-style" name debate, I think both categories in general (individual names of course will vary) will have success with the rising generation of namers (both providing the "classic but not overused" flavor that is becoming popular).

lucubratrix-I do see that Olive is a tree and a color. I guess I do think of it as a color in addition to the name. Not so much a tree though I do think about olive oil. When I think of Rueben I also think of Rueben Kincaid from the Partridge family.

alr-It's ultimately your decision so I don't know how much my opinion matters in the end. However, I really don't think Naomi Violet flows all that well. It IS a pretty looking name though. What about using something from her place of origin or did you decide not to go down that road. Looking on babynamesworld.com I found a few Desta, Gabra, and Dahnay that were particularly striking. If you didn't like those directly you could you parts and do something like Destiny, Gabriella, or Dinae/Renee/etc.

I personally really like Naomi and Violet together for several reasons. I think the round, soft sounds of Naomi are balanced really nicely by the sharper sounds of the V and T in Violet. I think the consonant V is nice after the vowel ending of Naomi. And I think the repeated long O sounds are also really pleasant together. That said, I can't remember if you mentioned your LN, so I don't know what the rhythm of the three names together would be like.

Hyz - Great thoughts on Annette. I agree with you, although my bigger concern is the flow. I can't get past hearing a slur of the names with a "mia" in the middle. DH loves it though, and "Ann" by FAR is a legacy name in both our families... I just can't bring myself to use Ann (alone) without feeling like it's a filler middle name.

Lucubratrix - Thanks for the link! So relevant! :)

Zoerhenne- Ahhh, Desta! A longtime favorite of mine. This is, however, an Ethiopian name - and this time around we're adopting from Uganda. Naomi is the name she was given in Uganda, so we feel like her first name fills the "link to birth country" slot, and the middle is now the link to us.

PennyX - I think I agree with the soft vs sharp pairing of Naomi Violet... just haven't had the guts to get past wanting a family name. Hmm.

Okay, I have one more little bit of info for consideration regarding Violet for a potential middle. In the last year, I've become pretty good friends with a gal who adopted a little girl (Naomi's age within DAYS) from Africa. I just found out her daughter's middle name is Violet. Normally, I shy away from names "already taken" like this, but I'm actually wondering if our little Naomi would appreciate having a friend with her same middle name. Something to bond over? I'm sure I'm reading in to it too much, but it's just something I've been chewing on.

Meanwhile, I know there aren't a lot of Delia fans out there, but I quite like it's spunk, so it's staying on the table for a bit longer... :) Especially after DH nixed my front runner, Adele.

Rentering the top 1000 is my daughters name. Ranking 1060 in 2008 when I named her. It entered the list at 968 this year.

ETA- her name is Willa.

Well alr, that does change my comments with the added info. I didn't realize the birth place was different (or had just forgotten). So if Naomi is a "birth name" then you do need a name connecting her to you. I think the connection to the other child is cute. Plus, if you think she is at the age where she may need something like that then you have a winner.

Jillc- at least in my limited experience (don't eat them, so don't pay *that* much attention), the sandwich is always a Reuben, never a Ruben... so the Ruben spelling doesn't have the same sandwich problems, at least in writing. In fact, when I type "Ruben sandwich" into google, it helpfully asks me whether i meant "Reuben sandwich" instead. :)

As far as whether the -aidan names are on the wane -- the alternative is that they're rising but that they're fragmenting into more creative spellings and rare variants. It's very possible that the most mainstream spellings are in decline while the overall trend is still booming. I know different people besides the post I linked have done -aidan compilations by pronunciation, but I don't know of anyone who has done the same analysis in different time points... and obviously different people lump in or exclude different variants as belonging to the trend, based on best guesses at pronunciation. (I certainly am not volunteering for the task because I think it would break my brain.)

Alr - I like Delia, though not as much as Adele. Any chance he'd be a taker on Adela, sort of a compromise?

I think Ann alone might a bit stark with Naomi, depending on the last name, but definitely not unusable. Happily, there are a staggering number variations on Ann:
http://www.behindthename.com/name/ann/related
A lot of long-established names combine Ann with another name -- any chance that there is an Elizabeth (Anneliese/Annelies/Annelise) or a Mary (Marianne) or a -bel (Annabel) in your families that you also might want to honor along with the Anns?

@alr, I like Naomi Violet together :) I think you should go for it if you love it, but I can see you are wanting something 'meaningful'. Personally, I think it is meaningful you just need to convince yourself ;) I also like Naomi Delia. It is a different sound to me but still lovely. I agree that Naomi Ann is a bit plain and I'm not sold on Naomi Annette as I agree it's a little frumpy. How about Naomi Adeline? Naomi Adelaide? Naomi Annabelle?

My guess on the continuing popularity of Ruben is that most of them are actually named Rubén (common name among Spanish speakers).

air

I'm a 3-name fan, and much prefer family/meaningful names in general. I rather like,

Naomi Annabel VIolet

unless both middle names will rise too quickly for your taste.

Another Adele/Delia compromise idea is Adelia...

Naomi Adelia Violet

oops, never mind. Both my suggestions have the "mia" sound issue.

Lucubratix--I think Lagniappe can also mean "a little surprise" or "something a little extra" (i.e. the 13th donut is an added little surprise) which kind of makes sense if the baby was an unexpected addition to the family (and sounds better than "freebie"). Interesting MN choice.

alr, I like Naomi Violet too. Naomi Delia doesn't flow to me.

alr: I like Naomi Violet the best. Naomi Dell would be my second choice. Generally, I don't like middle names to start with a vowel when the first name ends in one. They usually don't flow well to my ear.

alr: Naomi Violet for sure

Kern - super good point about the "surprise" side meaning of the something extra of a lagniappe! Little Lagniappe had two older siblings, a boy and a girl, so I wouldn't be surprised if the parents had been planning on being a "two and through" family but then received an extra bonus child. A Lagniappe definitely is a pleasant, happily received item so I suppose it's the nicest way one can refer to the surprise nature of a pregnancy in a name!

Elizabeth T - Good thinking! I'm quite sure you're right about the Ruben total encompassing a lot of Rubéns! Although much more popular than Reuben, Ruben is also experiencing a downward trajectory in % of babies... but it's coming down after a plateau starting in the 1990s. Reuben on the other hand peaked in the 1890s and declined since, with a mild resurgence in the 1970s. The very different popularity trajectory of the two spellings would be consistent with the Ruben spelling coinciding with more Spanish-speakers naming in the US.

alr: Here's another vote for Naomi Violet. I agree with the person who said being given one of your mom's very favorite names is a good family connection. Maybe then the name Violet will be passed down to her children and beyond.

New baby of close friends... Emers0n Chad. I'll ask for the naming story later! Dad is Brys0n and I know he loves his name...so I wonder if maintaining the son was intentional.

I'll be the lone person to vote for Naomi Annette. I think it sounds more timeless, less trendy than the others. I also think it sounds more mature... but in a good way. The others are too "right now" for me and Annette feels steadier, less date-stamped. (It *feels* that way, but I have no idea how date-stamped it *actually* is.)

Although most of the Raidens are probably RAY-dens along with the Aiden trend, any parents actually using it as the Japanese name instead of the Aiden-trend name would say it more like RYE-den.

Laura Z: I don't know if you caught it, but my Olive is not even 3 weeks old and already a few people have called her Olivia (on Facebook congratulations)! I guess this potential problem was a blind spot for me. Also have realized that I have condemned her to jokes about the food and also the similarity of her name with the phrase "all of." But oh well!

Another observation I've been meaning to share with you all: My MIL pronounces her name aw-luhv (more like "all of"). (Everyone else pronounces it aw-liv.) My husband says his mom's pronunciation is because she's Portuguese (not from Portugal, but ethnically and culturally [as in, her pronunciation is influenced by it] I guess. I think this might contribute to her being less of a fan of the name as I think the "liv" pronunciation sounds better. (And my sister likes Liv as a potential nickname too.)

alr: There may be Delia fans out there. I have a friend who is currently considering Cordelia (for a girl not yet conceived, but hoped for since she has two boys). We've been talking about nicknames, including Cordy, Cori, Dell, Delia, Lia, Deely, and so on.

To get around the Mia, what about Nanette, Nancy, etc?