Baby Girl Name Help
Hi all, some of you might remember a few months ago I asked for some naming advice on the blog, and got lots of excellent name ideas from you. Well, our girl is due in a couple weeks (or less), and we're still working on our list. I thought it might help me to have someone other than my husband give me some thoughts on our names. So far these are our lists:
First name:
- Fiona
- Guinevere
- Gwendolen
- Harriet
- Penelope
Middle name(s):
- Joann, or some variant (Jo, Ann, Josie) (to honor my MIL)
- Pauline or Mae (to honor my grandmother)
For background, we have a toddler son Alist@ir W!lliam Duke Mull!gan and previously a stillborn son Har0ld J0seph mylastname Mull!gan. Our daughter will also have the last name Mull!gan. It is important to me to use either Pauline or Mae in the middle name slot, and I had assumed we would do 2 middles because this is what we did for the boys. My husband thinks it isn't necessary to give two middles, but if we do, he feels like he should get to choose who the other one honors, and he wants that to be his mom. I go back and forth on this, but I'm not against it. The problem is how the names themselves work together, because while the honoring is most important, sound does matter to me as well.
So, basically I'm looking for feedback on the first names (do you like them, dislike them, find them not to work with the last name, think they're too popular or up & coming, etc) as well as thoughts on the middle names and whether one will do or two is the better way to go, and what combos would sound best. And I'm always open to new name suggestiosn too - we've been at this so long that I feel like we might be overlooking the perfect name because we've been so focused on narrowing down the few we initially agreed on. Thanks in advance!
Tue, 06/05/2012 - 2:06pm
Replies
First, I have to say that I love most of your choices! A few thoughts using the names that you presented:
While I love the name Gwendolen (and it would probably be on my hypothetical future baby name list had my sister not dibbed it,) that is my least favourite with your last name because of the matching endings. Gwendolen Mull!gan feels a bit tongue-twistery and rhymy to me, so since you have other great options, I'd say that this one is probably lowest on my list in the given circumstances.
Fiona and Guinevere are fantastic and by far my top two from this list. While I'm not usually a fan of Ann in the middle name slot because of its generic feel, in this case, I think that it works well because it balances the grandness of Guinevere. Guinevere Ann Mae Mull!gan or Guinevere Josie Mae Mull!gan. I find Pauline to be too long in this combo, especially in the second middle name slot. If you were willing to switch the order, I'd say that Guinevere Pauline Mae Mull!gan or Guinevere Pauline Josie Mull!gan work, too - though I still do prefer Ann with Guinevere.
Is there some reason that you don't want to use the actual name Joann? Because I think that it works better than Jo. Fiona Joann Mae Mull!gan works very well to my ear. Fiona Josie Mae Mull!gan or (if you are willing to switch the order,) Fiona Pauline Josie Mull!gan work. It's a lot of name, but how often would the whole thing really be used in its entire four-name glory?
Penelope is a great name, but I find the four syllables to be a mouthful with the three-syllable Mull!gan. It works and the flow is fine, but I'd just gravitate toward the shorter choices. And Harriet? Well, I just don't feel the pull toward contrarian names, so I'm not the best person to give opinions on this choice :)
To go with Alistair, I like Fiona best, but think that Guinevere has a certain flair that matches well with Alistair's charm, too.
Was that helpful at all...?
Favourites: Guinevere/Fiona Josie Mae Mull!gan. I like how the given names all have different numbers of syllables because it gives good flow.
Good luck!
Thanks, that is all really helpful, and you helped me figure out why I like Gwendolen and Penelope but they haven't felt right - I can blame my husband's last name!
Also, I'm not sure why I put down the middle names in that order: I would probably prefer to use my grandma's name as the first middle name, especially if we use Pauline. Mae seems better in a second middle spot, although to me the Pauline or Mae is the primary honoree (if that makes sense). I don't mind Joann, so that is definitely useable too, I just didn't know if it sounded like two names just by itself.
And yeah, I think most any name/set of names we choose is going to be a mouthful, but as someone with a long name myself, it doesn't bother me too much. And Alistair's name is similarly long, but was well received by everyone (or at least no one said anything to us if they thought it was crazy!), so that makes me feel better about it too.
Thanks!
I completely agree that Gwendolen is a lovely name that just doesn't suit Mulligan. It's not just that the last syllables match, but also that they have the same rhythm - GWEN-do-len MULL-i-gan.
Harriet has the same rhythm - three syllables with the stress on the first, so I don't think it works either.
But Guinevere and Fiona are lovely.
I think Alistair and Fiona are perfect together. I agree with Karyn, Gwendolyn doesn't quite work. Harriet is okay, but Fiona just sounds so nice with Alistair and your ln. Penelope and Guinevere are just not my style and seem overly long to me. Of the options you give, my favorite is Fiona Mae Mull!gan. Fiona Josie Mae Mull!gan is nice too.
A few others that come to mind based on your first name favorites: Henrietta, Cordelia, or Cornelia? But really I think you need not look further than Fiona.
I'll have to share these comments with my husband! Fiona has long been a favorite of mine, but he is far more on the fence about it. Maybe this will persuade him. And thank you!
I should probably also mention that Harriet is a name we both love, but my husband is far more into it than I am. I think it is too close to Harold, and I don't want our daughter to think we couldn't come up with a name that is enough her own, if you know what I mean, but my husband doesn't see that as an issue.
We don't choose a final name until after meeting the baby, so I'm willing to keep an open mind - maybe she'll just turn out to be Harriet. If that's the case though, I don't think I could go with any of the Jo-related middle names, since they're way too close to Joseph.
I do think you should stick with the using 2 middles, I think it would seem odd if you didn't after you've done so for your previous children.
Just curious, was Harold Joseph named after Joann, or was it just a coincidence? If he was named for your MIL, it seems like she's already had her namesake-but if your husband feels strongly about it then maybe it's not worth having that discussion. I do agree that Harriet feels too close to Harold to use, though I like the idea of moving that to one of the middles as an honor name for her brother.
I agree Fiona is by far my favorite from your list, though I do like all of your names so I don't think you could go wrong. Like previous posters, Fiona Mae Josie or Fiona Josie Mae are my favorite combinations. Fiona Anna Mae is also nice, assuming Anna isn't too far from Ann for you to use. In fact, it seems to me like maybe you could combine them and do Fiona Annamae Pauline, but I can't decide if I like it or if it just seems like too much name.
Thanks for your thoughts, I'm glad to get agreement that 2 middles is the way to go. Harold Joseph was named after my grandpa and my MIL's father. She was named after him, so in a way, the Joseph could honor them both, but I don't think my husband sees it that way, which I understand.
I love your son's name! Very handsome and aristocratic. Some thoughts on your current choices:
Fiona - Pretty, easy to spell and pronounce, and matches well with Alistair in that they both have a subtle but distinct Celtic vibe. My only reservation here is that Fiona has a much more modern feel than your other names—it's only been in the top 1000 since 1990. Not necessarily a strong concern, just something to be aware of.
Guinevere - This is my favorite! I love a good underused literary classic with romantic associations. It also has great Celtic synergy with Alistair, but with a more dignified, highbrow feel than Fiona.
Gwendolen - I like the name, but I'm kind of on the fence about this spelling. It seems like all three major spellings of the name (Gwendolen, Gwendolyn and Gwendoline) popped up in the 19th century as an Anglicization of Guendoloēna, a Latin form of a Welsh name. So there doesn't seem to be one spelling that is more authentic or traditional than another... however, in the U.S. (where I'm guessing you are, based on your spelling of "honor"), Gwendolyn gets much more use (there were only 7 Gwendolens born in 2011, and fewer than 5 Gwendolines, compared with 503 Gwendolyns). So you might run into more spelling issues with Gwendolen. The y spelling also looks somehow more balanced to me, and this is one of the few situations in which that cool internal y is totally authentic. I also agree that the ending makes it a bit clangy with your last name.
Harriet - I'm afraid I still haven't warmed up to this one, though I know it has fans on this site. It makes me think of the word "harried," and when I picture a Harriet in my mind she always has frizzy, disordered hair and crazy eyes.
Penelope - I'm always on board with classical names, so thumbs up! This is currently the most popular of your names (which actually surprises me a bit—I thought that Fiona would be more popular). It's jumped quite high since 2001, so there's the potential that it will eventually sound dated... but again, I don't think that's a huge concern, since it has a history of use throughout the last century. It has a nice distinguished, aristocratic sound with Alistair. I love Nell as a nickname.
On the middle names: I like Pauline just fine, though I don't care for Mae in that spelling (I LOVE May, though). But I understand wanting to keep the spelling if it's a tribute name. I'm not really a fan of Joann—it has a midcentury feel that is very discordant with your other choices, which have a much more antique vibe (with the exception of Fiona). Josie I like as a nickname, but I don't care for nicknames on the birth certificate, even in the middle slot. Jo alone feels very insubstantial and kind of country, and Ann is a bit plain, though perfectly functional. However—can I sell you on Johanna? I think it has a much softer, sweeter feel to it, and fits in beautifully with the gentle antiques that predominate on your list.
My votes:
Just wanted to say, even as one of the Harriet lovers on this site, your description of what the name brings to mind made me positively cackle. Hilarious.
I agree that Fiona feels more modern, not because it actually is but because of Shrek and its popularity. I've loved it forever and it goes so well with Alistair that I haven't been able to let go of it, but I do have those concerns. I have similar popularity concerns with Penelope, and I love most of the nickname options, but am not a huge fan of Penny, and I think it's the most common/likely nickname choice.
As for Gwendolen, you're right, the multiple spellings is an issue. We've gone back and forth on the y versus the e, but I'm thinking this probably isn't the one for us anyway. And I love your description of Harriet too, I can picture it now!
And thank you for the suggestion of Johanna, I'm going to have to run that by the husband! I think the whole middle name thing is making me crazy because not only do I not care about honoring Joann herself (which sounds more callous than I mean it - she's great, but I think there are other people in our lives with more "claim" to an honor spot. But with two middles I think it's fair that I get one and Jason gets the other, and his choice is his mom, so I need to stop being whiny.), but I also don't particularly like her name. You're right, it doesn't fit with the rest of them, which is why we were trying out different parts of it, but none of those seem right either. Johanna wouldn't normally be exactly my style, but I like it so much better with the rest of our names. Here's hoping I can sell the husband on it. Thank you!
Glad to help and entertain ;)
Now that I think about it, my impression of Harriet has probably also been influenced by a professor I had in college, who had the frizzy hair and the slightly crazy eyes, and also was rather awkward and wore the dowdiest sweater sets. She also gave me the lowest grade I ever got, so that's probably colored my perspective a bit (not that I didn't deserve it, truth be told).
Responding to a comment further down—I'm so envious that your name is really Rhiannon! That was one of my huge name crushes a few years back. I actually think that makes Guinevere an especially good choice for you, as you have experience living with a mythological name, and you could look at the Welsh connection as a subtle nod back to yourself.
I would be careful about dismissing the name Guinevere based on her role in the legends. There are a lot of medieval texts that feature her as a character, and they don't all tell the exact same story. Remember also that most of these texts were written by men with a very misogynistic worldview (or in the case of some, e.g. Marie de France, by women who subscribe to some elements of that worldview). If the same stories were written today they might read very differently. In fact, if you look I'm sure you could find a historical novel out there that re-imagines the stories from a feminist perspective (something like The Mists of Avalon, though if I remember correctly, that one portrays Guinevere as more pitiable than anything else). It's not historical, but then, neither are the medieval versions.
Fiona is my favorite, followed by Guinevere. And I love EVie's suggestion of Johanna for Joann! I disagree that Fiona sounds truly modern, in the sense that I'm sure it was on Ireland's top 1000 long before it appeared in the US top 1000 (so in that sense I don't see it as modern in the same way as Bryleigh, or something) and it has the feel of a traditional name to me, but I agree that it is maybe trendier than your other choices. It was on our list (was one of my husband's faves) and I know two young ones in my circles (sisters to Isl@ and Cald3r, respectively). But I don't think it's too trendy, and it really is lovely. Guinevere is pretty, but for me personally, I think it might feel like "too much"--meaning that it has such a strong romantic/mythological quality to me that it might be hard to carry, kind of like, I don't know, Venus or maybe something from Tolkein, like Aragorn or Galadriel. But then, it does have a nice sound and it is unsual, and if she felt burdened by it she could always go with Gwen or Guin for a nn, which I think is nice. Any love for Gwyneth as sort of a happy medium between Gwendolen and Guinevere? I think Gwyneth hits a very sweet spot, unusual and familiar, soft and pretty. Harriet and Harold are quite close. And Penelope is not a personal favorite of mine, but it is nice and it's growing on me--although maybe too much of a mouthful with the LN. So, I will cast my votes for:
I definitely agree with you that Fiona has probably seen much more sustained use outside the U.S., and that it totally sounds like a "real" name (i.e. not invented, not creatively spelled, not an adapted place/surname)—I mainly meant that its usage in the American context is a fairly recent phenomenon, so it has a bit of a modern flavor to me (also, thanks to Shrek). I would compare it to names like Zoe or Chloe, which have long histories of use, but because their recent usage is way out of proportion to what has come before, they still have a very modern feel to them. They also have the same spunky-yet-gentle feel, and the -oh- sound.
I think a similar parallel from another era is Caitlin—a traditional Irish name that appeared on the U.S. lists out of nowhere in the late 70s, and now is indelibly marked as a name of the late 80s-90s. I'm not at all saying that Fiona will be the next Caitlin, just because Caitlin rose much faster and higher over a 20-year period and was particularly prone to spelling variants... I'm just pointing out that names being traditional in other cultures doesn't preclude them from becoming date-stamped in the U.S.
Gwyneth is a nice suggestion, and I'll also thrown in Genevieve, which is perhaps a bit less mythological-sounding than Guinevere (if that's a concern).
EVie, I realized you didn't think it was a newly invented name--I think I know you better than that! :) Zoe/Chloe and Caitlin are good examples of traditional names with a very modern feel due to usage patterns (and I totally agree with your statement that "names being traditional in other cultures doesn't preclude them from becoming date-stamped in the U.S.")--I guess I just don't have quite the same impression of Fiona. I would put Fiona in a class with maybe Charlotte, Amelia, Claire, Lucy, Ruby, etc. (although it's not nearly as popular as any of those), in that it sounds like a sweet traditional name that is enjoying a lot of attention right now (and which get a lot of love on this board, including from me). These may all sound dated to the 2010s one day because of their spike, but to me they all still manage to sound fairly quaint and lovely, as opposed to the extremely popular Zoe, Chloe, Isabelle, Sophia, Olivia, etc. which have already started sounding a bit tired and dated to me despite their intrisic lovely qualities. But maybe that's a personal thing, partly driven by the fact that I feel like I am constantly hearing of young and older adult Fionas (local radio personality, various musicians and artists, an old college professor I had, etc.), so it feels more established to me than the SSA numbers would indicate.
I like the suggestion of Genevieve, too. :)
Yeah, I worry at times about Guinevere being too much, both because of the mythological feeling and the actual length. And it has such strong sounds as well, which I love, but also know can make it a harder name for people to deal with. I always loved having an unusual name, but Rhiannon has much softer sounds than Guinevere, which makes it easier I think. But I think having Guin/Gwen available helps a lot with that, like you said. I like Gwyneth, but DH was put off by the Gwyneth Paltrow issue. I don't know that it's as big a problem as he thinks though, so it's definitely a possible contender if we feel like Guinevere might be too much, but we want something similar.
When I hear Gwyneth all I think of is Paltrow. That may not be an issue for younger generations, as we don't seem to hear that much about her these days.
But it is a lovely name.
I do know two little girls named Gwenyth (I must live in a Gwenyth pocket because it's a very uncommon name!). That might be a way to get the sound while avoiding the Paltrow connection.
I agree that Alistair and Guinevere are delightful together. They send a strong message about your family's aesthetic-- maybe too strong? But if you're bold enough to go for it, that's my call.
I like the combo Guinevere Ann Pauline or Guinevere Ann Paulina best. I also like:
Fiona Mae Pauline
Fiona Joann Mae
and (echoing another poster's suggestion):
Cornelia Ann Pauline
I like the alteration of short and long names in the middles better than two short back-to-back. I also like switching up the -a and -n endings in the names.
Hope this helps!
Hmm... I love the sound of the name Guinevere, and the knights-in-shining armor association, but I've never considered it as a name choice for myself simply because in most versions of the tale, Guinevere cheats on her husband and ends up setting off the chain of events that leads to the fall of his empire.
Now, this might not bother you, but I did think someone should point out that the sole famous Guinevere isn't exactly role model material.
In general, you have a very lovely list of choices!
EDIT: Oops! I was trying to respond to the first post, not Coll's! Sorry!
You make an excellent point, and I've definitely considered it and it does make me pause. I'm assuming that is probably part of the reason it is so much less popular than other similar sounding/feeling names. Meaning/history aren't the most important thing in a name to me, but it's definitely something I want to keep in mind, so thanks for the reminder!
I think Guinevere is the one I keep returning to most lately, but you're right, it's a bold choice and I'm not 100% sure we're ready to be that bold. Fiona seems safer, but I don't know that safe is what I want either. I think it's going to come down to meeting the baby and seeing what fits (and then being surprised when it's something we never considered before, probably!) But thanks, your suggestions are a help too!
I love Alistair's name and I personally think all of your options go well with it.
A few comments though. Guinevere is probably my favourite. It suits Alistair and works well with your last name and is a very underused name.
Fiona would be my second choice. I don't find it modern. I know several adult Fiona's and a couple of babies. It also goes well with your last name.
Harriet I love, except it is close to Harold. Given Harold was stillborn I think it's usable, especially since it could double as a tribute to Harold. I think it flows fine with your last name. It's third choice for me. I do like the idea of maybe using it as a middle name though?
Penelope is nice but blends a bit with Mulligan for me. It is also the most popular of the options, but still a good solid name.
Gwendolen I'd have to veto on flow with your last name given the other good options you have.
Best combos:
Guinevere Johanna Mae M......
Guinevere Harriet Ann M.....
Fiona Pauline Mae M........
Fiona Harriet Ann M......
Harriet Johanna Mae M......
Penelope Johanna Mae M.....
I agree that you should keep the two middle names for this baby too!
Thank you for the combos, and the compliment to Alistair's name; loving his name so much is making this time around much harder!
Your comment that Harriet could serve as a tribute name to Harold has me thinking...perhaps if I think of the "Joann" name as a subtle tribute to Harold Joseph then choosing that part of the middle will be more appealing to me. If I think of it that way I think I'll be happier about it and can move on to actually picking the best way to honor her. Thank you for the change in perspective!
Fiona is my favorite:
Fiona Joanna Mae
Fiona Pauline Joanna
I also like Penelope a lot but maybe not with your last name. Same with Gwendolen and Guinevere.
Unfortunately, Harriet is a name I never liked.
in my mind, Hadley is really close to Harriet, i don't know if they are really related or not, as i believe Hadley means field of heather. how about Hadley Johanna Pauline to go with Alistair?
I like the name Guinevere Ann. I am tired of hearing all the Emma's, Isabell's, Claire's. I loved the old names when they first came back but now they are too over used. These kids will sit in school with every other Bella and Emma. Just like all the Jennifers, Ambers, and Nicoles when I was in school.
I want my child to be the first of a new generation of names or one of a kind without standing out and being too different. I love the 60's era and find I like the old names from a newer generation. But giving a new twist to the spelling or middle name. Like Karyn Hannah, Stacy Alana, and I do like Harriet Grace. These names are now unique with the 2012 generation and they won't share a name with everyone in their class even if the names catch on in the next few years. I find the 60's names graceful and classy. Not tacky like some of the names I hear today and feminine for a baby girl like a name should be. I don't think girls should be given manly names. Something I would resent if I had been named something masculine. You don't know what their personality is going to be and I have always been a gurly girl.
Good luck.