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What a wonderful name! Congratulations.
Also, a bit of Googling suggests that a lot of Punjabi names are used by both Sikhs and Muslims, so maybe searching through lists of Punjabi names is the way to go. Or look for overlaps on lists of Sikh and Bohri names. Time consuming, but could work.
Although this community of name enthusiasts has a deep wealth of name knowledge in many areas, I haven't found them.us particularly knowledgable about South Asian names.
Are you looking for a name that occurrs in both Bohri and Sikh naming contexts? Or would one that doesn't generally occur in either be ok? Are you based in the West or in India?
Maybe a Hindu-Bohri pair, I'd suggest something like Aasha-Umeed (both names meaning Hope). I'm not sure how that would go over where you're at, but I kind of dig it.
Alternately, a name that isn't Indian but is pronouncable in Indian languages might work. Something like Natasha or Anushka or Katrina that's common or at least well-known in the Indian context but doesn't come from India.
Yes, Aryan is a very typical Indian name. The Nazis and other Europeans had weird ideas about the Aryans, an actual Indo-Iranian ethnic group. It's a complex situation that warrants looking up on Wikipedia.
The reason I find myself curious about Arya is because I'm surprised that parents seem to feel it's free of the "Aryan Race" connotation. Aryan being the adjective, Arya being the noun. That's what the name connotes to me (with the GOT being a secondary connotation), but I seem to be in the minority. Or at least I hope I am. That being said, if people are naming their children Lucifer, then who knows.
I agree that Ira and Margot are the best. I am finding that Margot is very popular, however. I've encountered many more of them than Emmas, even though Emma is the most popular baby girl name in the US! I would say I'm just in a Margot pocket, but if so, it's one that moves with me as a travel aroudn the US.
Also, am I the only one for whom Ira is all Ira Glass?!? (I mean, I know it's an established name, and have encountered several other Iras. But Glass is certainly the first person I think of when I hear the name).
I have to agree that it strikes me as an aspirational name that is pointing to an idealized vision of a Southern aristocracy. Since I associate that aristocracy with slaveholding or post-Civil War racism, I dislike the feel of the name. Also becuase the aspirational aspect seems to point to a lower-class fetishization of the upper classes.
On the topic of Game of Thrones names, and off the original topic, I'm intrigued by some of the characters' pronunciations of the name Arya in their pseudo- or real-but-modified-for-the-show British accents. At first I thought the were saying "Aya." I assume that they're going for non-rhotic Estuary English. But I'm surprised that an internal R would be subject to as much R-swallowing as a final R would be in that accent. I'm also confused about whether that accent actually completely does away with Rs like the "Aya" pronunciation of this name implies, or if they somehow affect the preceding vowel sounds in ways that indicate their presence. If the latter is true, than one could differentiate between words like hot and hart in Estuary. If not, not.
Anyone care to follow me down that tangent???
I think I didn't explain myself well. I was trying to describe how the use of Brooklyn and Cohen by people who are potentially anti-Semitic and/or racist strikes me as cultural appropriation. I was trying to articulate how the use of the names feels to *me*. Writing from NYC as a non-religious person of Ashkenazi ancestry with experience being the subject of anti-Semitism and witness to racism in the South, I tend find the use of Cohen as a given name by people who are ignorant of Jewish tradition and/or actively anti-Semitic ironic and offensive, although can also be persuaded that it's just an unfortunate case of a homograph, with a creative and infelicitous spelling of Cowan coinciding with the transliteration of כֹּהֵן, .
The use of Brooklyn by people who are potentially anti-Semitic and/or racist is similarly, but also differenlty, offensive to me. It's like a vague echo of the same offensivness--to me, it contributes to that my culture is ripe for appropriation, while at the same time subject to bigotry.
I would guess that most people naming their daughters Brooklyn are not referencing the Dutch place name. Instead, I assume that they're pointing to two cultural referents: 1. the hipness of the borough in recent years, a sort of hipsterish cool, and 2. the girls' names Brooke and Lyn. So it's a coincidence of a place name and a compound name. Very felicitous.
I would also guess that the use of the name is higher farther away from NYC, in places where ignorance and or anti-Semitism and racism against African Americans are highest.
If I'm correct, then it's people who don't like the actual people of Brooklyn because of their ethnic background using the moniker because they want to borrow the mellifluous sound and the air of hipness. Which feels to me like cultural appropriation. Not on the same order as Cohen at all, and not the same in the specifics at all, but they both give me the same heebie jeebies.
So, yes, this is what I was trying to get at:
"Or is it a matter of Brooklynites rolling their eyes at presumed bigots in the sticks who have ignorantly/unwittingly given their child a name which connotes everything these resumed bigots abhor?"
A propos of Laura's recent post about Brooklyn and our discussion of Cohen, I thought about posting this as a response to her post, but realized it belonged here:
I'm not finding the Name Mapper function on the website right now, but I would assume that most of people naming their daughters Brooklyn are from the South or Plain and Mountain states, not from my fair borough.
It strikes me that I find the use of "Brooklyn" by people who are likely ignorant of NYC and quite possibly racist and anti-Semitic (Brooklyn having huge Afro-Caribbean and Hassidic populations despite its recent mostly white hipsterization, which I assume is the reputation the name is pointing to) strikes me as offensive in a similar way, although much less pointedly, as the use of "Cohen" as a first name.
I hope that "Natalytynn" is a typo, and that it's Laura's and not the parents'. I assume that was supposed to read Natalynn (which strikes me as pretty bad without the additional syllable).
Great article (I read the second one).
“Their names will make them special in this life.” -- a Venezuelan hot-dog vendor voicing a common aspiration of naming parents the world over.
Along the lines of e Siouxsie and the Banshees (sorta), I was thinking a lot of parents of Gypsies might be Stevie Nicks fans. Given that the US doesn't have a large Romani population, and that anti-Romani bigotry isn't a huge phenomenon here, I think it makes sense that Nicks could sing, "You see your Gypsy that I was," without it sounding nearly as offensive as if she were to sing, say, "You see your N---r that I was." No, that would be inconceivable, apart perhaps from in a rap context. Or the case of Rolling Stones, who, in their heyday, got away with the song Brown Sugar. Have you all actually listened to those lyrics? Holy mother of crap are they offensive.
Ah, I see you two already hit on the plausible OC source of this phenomenon. I mentioned it just now, in a reply that's upthread.
To gain some insight into why some people are naming their children Cohen, it's helpful to just check out the Babynamewizard entry on the name. One person who named her son Cohen describes why:
"We just named our 4th boy Cohen. I'm a labor and delivery nurse, which makes it sometimes hard when it comes to naming a baby, especially when we've already used so many good boy names! We were thinking of "Owen" this last time around, but it was just getting too popular for my liking. As we were considering it, someone asked us what we thought we might name it if it were a boy, told them "Owen", and they thought we said "Cohen". We loved it so much, and I hadn't heard of it being used in my experiences at the hospital as a baby name, so we went with that! We love it!"
Another person mentions a pop-cultural source of the name that might be contributing to the last name to first name crossover:
"on the Oc, the main characters family name is Cohen. Their teenage son, his friends called him Cohen."
I tend to think of it as an alternative spelling of Cowan that, combined with the popularity of lastnames-as-first names and the name Owen, (and perhaps the OC character is added influence) has taken off in an unfortunate way.
Ha! Me too. And it occurrs to me that I'm only guessing the one boy's name was spelled Bodhi. It could have been Bode or Bowdie or some such. I wish I had been nosier!
I much, much prefer Max, which I consider infinitely more classic, whereas Mason has only recently become popular. Admittedly, I don't tend to like occupation names (why name a child to be a bricklayer? I mean, I'm all for working class values and honest hard work, but this seems odd to me). I also tend to associate Mason with the Freemasons, which is an association I'm ambivlent-to-negative about.
But rather than go by the negative opinions of a random person on the internet, I suggest you think about what you like about each name, perhaps listing these qualities and deciding which list is longer or more compelling.
What's not to like? It's great.
I understand the last-minute doubt that can come when an arrival is near! First off, congratulations and good luck during this exciting time.
My thoughts are that you sound like you don't really like Penelope that much, and that it's just a placeholder for Pippa. I'd say that would be fine if it were a case like Elizabeth and Betty or William and Bill where the nickname was commonly associated with the formal name. But I've only heard of Pippa as a nickname for Phillipa. I may have missed this in the earlier discussion, but is there a reason you didn't choose that name? With a less-intuitive connection between Pippa and Penelope, I don't see a lot of motivation for using the latter, and would probably go with Pippa on the birth certificate.
I agree. This seems like a fluff piece that would fit on that-other-name-site-frequented-by-teenagers-that-starts-with-an-N-and-ends-with-an-erry.
Are you asking for the American pronunciation? I have only heard it on Greek speakers in the US, who pronounce it KAL-EE-O-pee (first syllable rhymes with pal, second with sea, third with snow, fourth with pea, empasis on the first two syllables with the second to last also sort of emphasized and the last almost swallowed up).