Leafy
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Beth The Original - I like your explanation (it made me laugh, in a nice way, to hear about your name "prejudices") and think it's fair enough. I wasn't actually aiming my comments at you, so I'm really sorry you felt people needed to defend you! I was just making an observation in general, about the many times I have read comments regarding horror over "-son" names, names with the same etymology, etc. I understand some people don't like them, or don't like them being used, but it's when they infer something mean about the parents who choose them, that it makes me feel like defending those parents! I don't have any children, and I am not planning on calling any future children by names that have the same etymology, or any girls a -son or Mc/Mac name, so it's not that I was taking it personally, just that I wanted to offer an alternate view on these issues.
"I think it's a bit disingenuous to declare that one reaction to a name is *judgmental* or *snobby*, while another is legitimized as personal taste." Wow, disengenuous! That's a pretty harsh accusation! Unfair, too, I think. But hey. I'm sorry, but I do think that there is a BIG difference between commenting about a name: "that's not my style" or "I'm not a fan" or "that's interesting, but I don't really like it", versus commenting on the parents' ignorance/intelligence/class for choosing such a name. I agree that such comments are rare on here, but when they are made I feel compelled to say "hey, let's not be so judgmental." Jenmn - I love Vivienne Violet. Great choice! Love both of those names, and together I find them especially charming. New baby born just yesterday: Minerva Elizabeth, sister to Liberty. (I don't know Liberty's middle name.) Interesting, strong choices! I'm not sure about Minerva, but I admire the parents' brave choice all the same!
Pyewacket, I wasn't saying that it's etymological snobbery to note/observe that names like Jameson mean son of James, or to comment that it's not your personal style or taste to give such a name to a girl, it just seems like snobbery to me when people are aghast and appalled at parents who do use names like this, and even more so when those parents are decreed somehow deficient as a result. I find it interesting that you don't consider it ignorance to name a child without knowing/caring about the name's meaning, or to not know that Mc or Mac mean "son of", but you do think that it's ignorant not to know that Elizabeth and Isabella "are the same name". That's a highly subjective interpretation of ignorance! I didn't know those things until recently, and I have 2 university degrees (a law degree, and an arts degree majoring in English), read widely and have lived in several different countries. I can therefore only guess that I can't be the only one not to consider them part of a good general knowledge. I think ET makes a good point, that we no longer use names like Jameson literally anyway - at least, most of us outside of the UK don't, LOL! I bet any boys in the US named Jameson, Jackson, Harrison etc, whose father is named James, Jack, Harry etc, are in the minority. If we are really going to be strict about meanings, then the use of the name Jackson on a boy whose father is not named Jack, should be frowned on too! My point is, name usage evolves, and to say that parents are ignorant for not using names how they were originally intended, seems rude - and also comical - to me. As Qwen said - rightly, I think - "I think it’s unfair to assume because someone’s tastes conflict with your own that they are ignorant, poor or can’t spell." Confused Mama - Congratulations on your baby girl!! I love her name and am so surprised to hear that people view Josephine as a "masculine or just not pretty in general" name. I think it is a beautiful, feminine name. Please stick with it - I like all of your other choices but still think that Josephine is the best of the lot. Lovely, lovely name. Anyway, no name you can choose would be loved by everybody. Your baby will win them over, I'm sure :)
I know a Coeli pronounced CHAY-lee. Her parents are both professors at the university, older and very religious. I think they would be horrified to think that some people thought their daughter's name was another way of spelling Kayleigh or Kylie, LOL!
KNP - I know a guy in New Zealand called Rodin and everyone mistakes it for Rodent. Seriously! I guess that's because he pronounces it as it looks in English - "ro-din" - rather than the original French way. I would be extremely hesitant to use this name in a non-French speaking country due to this problem, LOL! Re: "Urgh, I really hate the -son names on girls. I forgive all who use McKenna or Mackenzie as possibly not knowing that "Mac" means "son of," but when "son" is right there?" I often ponder whether it really matters what a name means. Hardly anyone ever seems to know name meanings, except people who are really into names and do their research. That's a tiny minority. (Of course, most people seem to know what their own name means, and maybe a few other names, but that's the extent of most people's etymological knowledge.) I often cringe at people calling their child "Kai" because it means "food" in Maori, but the reality is "so what?" I often have to remind myself that if the parents really like the name, then it doesn't matter. For them, it may mean "ocean", as it does in Hawaiian, or maybe they don't know any of the meanings, but just like the sound of the name. Is that so bad? The name's sound is the only thing that most people who meet the child will be aware of. Personally I'd prefer to use a name with a lovely, or at least appropriate, meaning, but I'm not sure many meanings would be deal-breakers for me. I am not keen on Jackson and Jameson on girls, although it's not due to the "son" endings - it's just an instinctive sense that they don't sound appealing on girls. I do like McKenzie on girls, although I wouldn't use it myself. I did know an Indian guy who was about to name his son Aryan (because he liked the sound of it) until someone told him the meaning. That certainly was a deal-breaker for him. To me, the issue of "how could people name their daughter "-son" or "Mc-" when it means "son of", shock! horror!" is along similar lines to "how could people name their daughter Isabelle Elizabeth when they mean the same thing, shock! horror!" - both just seem like etymological snobbery to me, sorry. It may be technically right, but who cares? Only a very few. I think we need to be less judgmental about other people's name choices. It's one thing to observe the etymological implications, another thing to conclude that the parents are in some way deficient.
"rhymes with Talia, not Malia" - funny, I pronounce Talia and Malia exactly the same, except for the first letter!
"Regarding Sawyer: I forgot to mention that my husband pronounced it "SOY-yer." Isn't it "SAW-yer"?" In New Zealand we say "soy-ah" so it completely ruins the name, making it sound like soya beans or soya milk!! On LOST, at least, I think they say "Saw-yer", pronouncing it exactly as it looks. So I had assumed that all Americans would pronounce it "Saw-yer" too! Where is your husband from?
I have to agree with Chimu - "in Australia and NZ, Graham/Graeme is always said as 2 syllables, either: gray-um, gray-em, or gray-mmm depending on the person who says it. But it is a definite 2 syllables, with emphasis on the first syllable." Totally true. And I noticed the same thing when living in London, England. I've never actually heard anyone pronounce it "gram", despite spending some time in the US. Maybe I just never met a Graham/Graeme in the US! I did notice the crackers were pronounced "gram" but thought that was just some odd brand thing, LOL!
Ryvre and Magalie?!! Wow.
Thanks for the reassurance re Theodora, team! :) Zoerhenne, I can understand it's not your style. Maybe you prefer the nickname Thea? (I love Thea - and it fits in well with all the soft-sounding, vowel-heavy names around at the moment) Or is that still old-ladyish to you? It's funny, I like SOME old-lady names, but not others. In fact, I generally either love them or loathe them. Love: Alice Evelyn Rose Marlene Florence Josephine Lillian Edith Grace Theresa Eva Viola Pearl Laura Emma Rosemary Ella Sylvie Maeve Not my style at all: Maud/e Norma Mildred Marjorie Edna Myrtle Martha Ethel Doris Gladys Gertrude Olive Phyllis Alma I have noticed that many people on here like many of the "old lady"/"granny chic" names. (Maud, Agnes and Enid have all been extolled on here recently.) But I have yet to hear that Theodora fits into that category. I guess it does, now that I think about it! After all, it was most popular in 1937.
Valentine - Theodora Rose Perry, Rex Simon Perry and Casper Simon Perry are all fine to my ears. I do feel like I'm stuttering a bit with the two Ps in Casper Perry, but it's not major. Rex and Simon do run together, like you say, but I agree that most people hardly ever use their middle names, so again it's not a major problem in my opinion.
Valentine - just to clarify, I actually really like Jack and Lucy as names (honestly!), but I find them ubiquitous at the moment, which has put me off using them myself. I hope I haven't offended anyone with a Jack or Lucy!!
Speaking of "jolie laide" names, does anyone think that Theodora falls into this category? I made the mistake of mentionning my current favourite name to someone, and their grimace has made me worry!! (Of course, I am consoling myself that they called their children Jack and Lucy, so have very different tastes to me, but still...)
Are Agnes and Agyness pronounced differently?
Rachel - I looked in Namipedia, and it seems that most parents with a son Isaac chose daughters names that were not unusual, BUT, as many people here have said, Isaac could work well with unusual names too. I think you could easily go either way on this one. Just choose the name you love most. (Although, check that it works with your surname ok, and check the popularity stats so you don't get any surprises!) I also like Chimu's suggestion of thinking what you would call a second daughter. This might help to reveal your true style. If your first and second choices are more usual names, then it might fit you and your family best to stick with them, especially since it means that future siblings names will work with them. If your first and second choices are more unusual, then that would be the way to go, in my opinion.
"hip nerdy" - this sounds like the same kind of vibe I use the phrase "geek chic" to describe, LOL!
Ahh, maybe Zuma Nesta Rock Rossdale is not named after his grandmother after all. I just found this: Nesta, meanwhile, was Bob Marley's first name before an immigration official switched it with his middle name, Robert. "This name obviously links to big brother Kingston's and is another nod to Jamaica and reggae," says Satran. Bob Marley's son Ziggy used Nesta as a middle name for his son, as did his other son Rohan, who has a son named John Nesta Marley with singer Lauryn Hill.
"Leafy-Matayas would be Mah-TAY-us (rhyming with play, day, etc.)" Yep, that's how they pronounced it. It's how they thought Matthias "should" be pronounced, but wanted to make it clear. I can understand that, but I struggle with made-up spellings.
Jane, Mother of 5 - "I recently read that Nesta is a Scottish nickname for Agnes." - Hmmmm I wonder if that's how it got into Gwen Stefani's son's name? Zuma Nesta Rock. Maybe he is named after a grandmother - Nesta is neutral-sounding enough to be pulled off by a boy, so it works ok. Nms for a boy OR a girl, though. If you like Enid and Agnes then I don't think you should hesitate to use them. They strike me as being in the "granny chic" category and if you have a daughter with this name then she will fit in very well with others in her class called Edith, Marion, Martha, Agatha, Ada, Una, Muriel, Maude, Clara, Mabel, Hazel, Olive, Elsie, Nora, etc.
"Speaking of hipster names, my cousin had a baby girl this week in Princeton, NJ: Ag@tha. Now there is a hipster name that is still truly obscure! She's little sis to Fel!x." Funny, I see SO many birth announcements for babies called Agatha in England. And Felix is currently the hipster name for boys in New Zealand - lots of them popping up!