Rate my boy name combinations, please

I have posted about my girl name combinations twelve of them, and now I want to post about my boy name combinations, fifteen of them! 

Ayaz Ender - Ayaz means cold weather but also a historical character from Gaznevid era, it is a really trendy name in Turkey now. Ender means really rare and is a literature name. 

Balamir Önem - Balamir means first child! It is really cute IMO and one of my favorite name for years. Önem means importance and gravity, I discovered this name last year. 

Bilge Hızır - Bilge means wise while Hızır is a somewhat mythological figure from Central Asia/Turkic world. There are debates on him being a prophet and his name can come from Geser. 

Bulut Öktem - Bulut means cloud, I really like Maysa Opal and Bulut Öktem as sibset. Öktem is a literature name.

Çağrı Aslan - Çağrı means message and he is also the founder of Selçuklu Devleti/Seljuk Empire. Aslan is another emperor of Seljuks, also means lion and a character name. Çağrı Aslan, Tuğrul Eretne and Konrul Tuluhan is another sibset. 

Erdenay Oktar - Erdenay is archangel Gabriel, Oktar means archer. Oktar is the sign of Sagittarius and also a European Hun emperor.

Erem Talu - Erem means gospel, good news. Talu means the chosen one. 

Erendiz Oben - Erendiz means Jupiter. Oben well, Oben means male camel and honestly I don't like the meaning just the name. 

Fatih Temir - Fatih is an Arabic name, it means conquerer and it is my parents' favorite boy name. Temir means iron and refers to prophet Temir. 

Ibrahim Sungur - Ibrahim is the Arabic/Turkish version of Abraham, it is the name of my deceased maternal uncle. Sungur is a type of bird and ongun(symbol) of one of the Guz Tribes (I don't remember which) 

Kayra Mutlu - Kayra means helping hand, Mutlu means happy and it is also an honor name. Kayra Mutlu, Solin Minay and Talu Masal makes another sibling set. (I just realised all of their middles start with m, it wasn't intentional.) 

Ömür Selçuk - Ömür means lifespan, it comes from Arabic Ömer. Ömer is the name of my paternal great-grandfather. Selçuk refers the Seljuk Empire, yes I love Seljuk Empire alot. This combinations will be used if I can't have three children to name Çağrı, Tuğrul and Konrul. 

Rua Andariman - Rua is a European Hun name, I love Hunnic names alot. Mete, Atilla, Oktar, Aybars, Karaton! All of them. Andariman means someone who respects the memories. 

Tuğrul Eretne - Tuğrul is the founder of Seljuk Empire but it is also makes up the mythological Oksoko bird along with twin sister Konrul. Eretne is one of the Anadolu Begliks and can be written as Eretna too. 

Talu Masal - I have talked about Talu, Masal means fairy tale. 

So what do you think about them? 

 

Replies

1
June 3, 2017 11:10 AM

Bilge won't fly in an English-speaking environment, as 'bilge' just puts me in mind of 'bilge water' (the dirty water that collects in a ship's hull. It was our non-swear word swear word growing up: whenever my mom was tempted to say something really nasty, she'd say "bilge water"! But maybe that's just my crazy family and others wouldn't have that association.

I like Erem a lot. I think Erem Talu is my favorite. Erendiz is nice, although it sounds like a Spanish-speaking woman's name (I know women named Lorendiz and Beatriz). Again, probably just my own bias. I enjoyed reading about Tuğrul as my husband works with someone by that name and I've always been curious about it.

2
June 3, 2017 11:19 AM

Nope, not just you. Bilge should not be used as a name in an English speaking country. It means nonsense/rubbish/waste. It's also the water that collects in a ship, and the name for that part of the ship as well. It has pretty much entirely negative connotations in English.

You may be pronouncing it differently than the English word, but the spelling in itself would be problematic for a child growing up in an English speaking country.

3
June 3, 2017 1:04 PM

It is Beel-geh the g is hard like the g in gray. I is always ee sound not ai/eye. The e at the and is pronounced too. Well there are many names that can have pronunciation problems like Berk, Bike and Umay also there are names on my list with non-English letters, cedillas, dotless I and soft g. Obviously I am not living in a English speaking country. 

4
June 4, 2017 9:38 AM

Sorry, it was not obvious to me that you don't live in an English speaking country, only that you seem to have a cultural background that is not English speaking. I didn't mean to offend you with my comment, but I thought if English was not your native language and you had moved to an English speaking country, you should know if any of the names had a negative meaning in English.

I think most people on this forum don't have much experience  with Turkish or Arabic names and therefore when you ask for our inputs it's hard to say much other than what associations we do have with the names as they relate to English. 

5
June 6, 2017 7:00 AM

That's okay I know Bilge's negative associations before and it never bothered me. There are also English names like Anne and Erik that can be problems since Anne means mother and Erik means plum lol. 

6
June 6, 2017 1:37 PM

Somewhere under Name Games there's a thread about names that don't travel well. For example, if your name is Rhonda you shouldn't move to Hungary, because _ronda_ means 'ugly, nasty' in Hungarian. We didn't make this distinction in that thread, but I think there are two classes of such names: the weird coincidences, like Erik=plum, and the truly unfortunate, "please don't move there" look- or sound-alikes, like Bilge and Rhonda.

7
June 6, 2017 1:46 PM

Speaking of fruit, did anyone ever add Barack to that thread? Though I suppose Obama, as a competent politician, would simply own it, and use an apricot or peach as his logo.

8
June 7, 2017 5:24 AM

My parnter's (and daughter's) surname means "bum" in Serbian. My Serbian friend was trying to make us go with my surname, but we did have reasons for using his name and it didn't seem likely enough to be a major issue in her life. :)

9
June 8, 2017 9:12 PM

Just out of curiousity, bum as in one's backside or bum as in a lazy person or tramp?

10
June 9, 2017 5:40 AM

Backside! 

11
June 9, 2017 5:49 PM

Haha, thanks for satisfying my curiousity. :) At least it only has that meaning in Serbian, unlike the poor kids out there with the surname Butts.

12
June 3, 2017 8:30 PM

I'm not keen on any of them

some others

 

Tariq, Malik, Zayd, Zayn, Casper, Cyrus, Darius, Jasper, Amin, Amir, Jameel, Aydin, Taj, Zaki,

 

13
June 4, 2017 3:03 AM

None of them are Turkish beside Aydin so I will never use them. They aren't even the Turkified spellings of these names. I am not here for suggestions too. 

14
June 4, 2017 1:45 PM

Ibrahim, Talu, Kayra and Omur are some of the ones that English speakers will have an easier time with.

15
June 5, 2017 5:49 AM

Ibrahim is the Turkish/Arabic version of Abraham so it is the easiest. I am surprised by Omur I thought umlauts will be difficult. I am happy about Kayra too since it could be somewhat feminine. 

16
June 5, 2017 5:23 PM

I think Megan meant what she said: Omur would work in English. You can certainly use Ömür in Turkish, but in an English-speaking context, it'll mercilessly become Omur. Governmental agencies simply don't register diacritics, and to many English speakers, they're just orthographical "bling", devoid of any meaning.

17
June 4, 2017 5:45 PM

First, I've really enjoyed learning more about names from a tradition I don't know much about, so thank you for your contributions, as always!

Second, as with the girls list, my commentary is going to be limited to "would I like for this collection of sounds to be my name" type analysis. Since I'm living in the United States, my criteria are whether a name is both distinctly signalling Turkish heritage but also fitting in with the sound and style trends here. I completely understand that if you are naming IN Turkey you'd legitimatelty have different criteria entirely... but still, how a name might be perceived internationally is I think an reasonable thing to consider in today's increasingly international world, and it was definitely something I thought about in naming my actual kids, too. (I think I'm not alone in that; names which rely on diacritical marks or letters not found in the standard keyboard tend to be on the wane these days, at least in non-English languages that I know more about.)

Erem Talu and Erendiz Oben seem like they'd be excellent choices very wearable in my part of the world -- on trend sounds, all. Erem is simple and sweet, and Erendiz more epic --- almost reminiscent of the name of the hero in a fantasy novel. Erdenay Oktar is also really nice and melodic. I think Erendiz Oben is my absolute favorite, and I'd only want to use one Er- name for callnames of siblings myself, but they're all great.

Ayaz Ender is I find another really fun choice... Ayaz is short enough to be easy for foreigners to learn and has on-trend sounds and an eye-catching z, and here Ender being very familiar (thanks to Orson Scott Card's novels featuring a character by this name). 

Ibrahim is a sweet name for honoring an uncle. In the abstract it's much more familiar than the above, so I'm less excited by it just by virtue of familiarity, but it's a fine choice. 

Kayra would read as a feminine name here -- Kay_a names are very on trend for girls right now. That doesn't need to be a problem, but it's the sort of thing one would want to be aware of in chosing, if one were envisioning spending time in the English-speaking world. Ditto for Rua. I do love Andariman, though - great sound and lovely meaning.

 

18
June 5, 2017 10:47 AM

You've got a lot of great names there! My favorites are Balamir Önem, all three of the Er- names (Erendiz is probably my favorite of these, but I like them all), Ayaz Ender, and Talu Masal. I love the look and sound of all these first names. The longer names feel very "high fantasy" to me (at least partly because of the similarity to Tolkien names like Boromir and Eärendil), and the shorter ones feel very snappy and stylish.

I also like Fatih Temir, but I like the middle name better than the first in that combination. Also, while I think choosing your parents' favorite name would be a great way to honor them, if it were me I would rather have my favorite in the first name slot, and their favorite in the middle ;-).

Ibrahim looks like the most internationally-recognizable name on your list. If it's special to you I think it would be fine, but like Lucubratrix I don't find it as fresh and exciting as some of your other names.

Bulut is not my style; partly is just the sound (as I'm imagining it) and partly it's the similarity to the word bullet. The meaning is very cool, though.

I agree that Kayra would probably be read as feminine in the English-speaking world; I think virtually everyone in the US would assume this (basically everyone except people who know the Turkish name). For sure, if I met a brother and sister named Kayra and Solin in the US I would assume that Kayra was the sister and Solin the brother. Rua and Fatih might have this issue, too, but I think not as overwhelmingly beause they don't look so much like known feminine names (though Fatih might be taken as a typo of Faith). This is not at all a deal-breaker, just something to be aware of.

I also agree that the spelling of Bilge would be very, very problematic in an English-speaking context. If there's a possibility that your son would someday want to, say, be an academic being published internationally, or a businessman doing business overseas, I would probably not want to use that as a first name. The sound is not a problem, so if there's a different spelling that he could use that would work, but as I understand it there's not a lot of variation in spelling in Turkish so maybe that's not an option.

I've been looking at Wikipedia's article on the Turkish alphabet, and I can't quite wrap my head around how to say the names with ğ in them, so I won't comment on those other than to say that they would probably be difficult for other English-speakers, as well. I don't think "hard to pronounce" is nearly as big an issue as "means garbage", though, so if you love them I think any international difficulties could be overcome.

19
By EVie
June 5, 2017 12:19 PM

I'm just going to agree with all of this. I LOVE Balamir, it's fantastic.

20
June 5, 2017 3:51 PM

My husband's colleague just accepts a hard 'g' in his name (Tuğrul).

21
June 5, 2017 4:44 PM

Interesting. According to the Wikipedia article (surely an infallible source of information ;-), ğ isn't usually actually any sort of a G, but rather stands for various effects on the preceding vowel. timetraveler, does that sound right to you? Does a hard G make a good stand-in for it?

22
June 6, 2017 7:08 AM

"Soft g" or ğ actually has no sound! It just lengthens the previous vowel and names like Kağan and Tuğba are also written as Kaan and Tuba. But I am not sure if Tuğrul can become Turul :/ But g isn't a good standart in since people can think there is a g sound in the name. İ also has the same problem with Ç turning into C since Ç is the ch sound and c can be s or s. 

23
By EVie
June 6, 2017 10:17 AM

G is a funny letter. We actually have something similar to that in English, believe it or not. The g in many Old English words evolved into a y sound or dropped out altogether. So, for example, heg in Old English turned into "hay"; halig  into "holy"; selig into "silly; geolu into "yellow;" clæg into "clay." Or hagu-thorn, "hawthorn"; fugol, "fowl"; or certain elements in place names, e.g. scaga became "shaw." 

What I don't know is whether the g would have been pronounced in Old English, as it still is in German (you can definitely see the Germanic relationship very strongly in some of these words; some, e.g. selig, are still the same in modern German), or whether it was always pronounced as y or another vowel and only the spelling changed. Maybe Miriam can jump in here :) 

(Oh, and c could also be pronounced as ch in some dialects of Old English, but in others as k. E.g. cirice evolved into "church" in England, but "kirk" in Scotland. Sceap = sheep. Cæg = key, but calc = chalk and cælic = chalice).

24
June 6, 2017 3:07 PM

Hwaet! We Gardena   in geardagum. That's the first line of Beowulf. "We Spear-Danes in days of yore...." Gar=spear as in garfish or Edgar;gear=yore. Although poetic convention allows the two sounds represented by g to alliterate as they do here, if g appears before a back vowel, it is pronounced "hard," while if before a front vowel it is "soft." Hence -dagum, an oblique plural form, is pronounced like dagger, while the nominative singular daeg is pronounced like day. Same rule as in present-day English, goat vs. gem. Where present-day English has hard g before a front vowel (e.g., give, get), the word has been borrowed from Anglo-Danish.

In Old English selig would be pronounced sely. Some beginning OE textbooks have little "training dots" to indicate how g (and c) are to be pronounced. BTW to define selig/sely as silly is reductive. This was one of my favorite riffs on semantic drift back in the day. In the Canterbury Tales the Wife of Bath refers to the male member as a "sely instrument." Almost all (male) editors of the text make a point of saying that sely does NOTmean silly, but are they right? Selig starts out meaning lucky, then drifts to blessed (if you are lucky, that's because divinity is with you), further from blessed to innocent (like the Holy Innocents), thence to gullible, and finally to silly. Chaucer uses sely both in the blessed/innocent sense and in the gullible/silly sense. I think Chaucer put sely in the Wife of Bath's mouth specifically because from her perspective the whole range of meanings applies.

Further in modern spelling g can also stand for yogh (looks roughly like 3) as in knight (rhymes with German licht). Yogh was also used to represent other sounds and sometimes is represented in modern spelling as z as in the Scottish surname Menzies (properly pronounced Menges, although the guy who plays the Randells in Outlander pronouncces it with a zed).

In OE c before a front vowel is pronounced like the ch in chair. Kirk is not descended from OE, but rather from Anglo-Danish. BTW it is cealc, not calc. As illustration of the amalgamation of OE and Anglo/Danish, see shriek which starts out English and ends up Danish, and screech which starts Danish and ends English. Or shirt and skirt, cognates in English and Danish respectively.

Fugol and hagu result fromother sound changes, and this is already long (and boring?) enough.

25
June 6, 2017 3:37 PM

That's fascinating, thank you! I wondered why "soft g" would have been chosen to represent vowel changes when the Turkish writing system was (apparently very systematically) being converted from Arabic-based to a Roman-based alphabet, but it looks like there is plenty of precedent for that.

26
June 6, 2017 3:52 PM

Not boring at all! This makes me want to read Chaucer again. Thanks!

27
June 6, 2017 4:43 PM

Reading Chaucer is always worthwhile!

28
June 6, 2017 5:10 PM

It was great to learn some things about Old English! The soft g can turn into y sound with vowels like e/I in Turkish too. And has a more dominant sound with Eastern/Southeastern/Azeri dialects but I mainly speak Istanbul Turkish so. 

29
By EVie
June 6, 2017 9:39 PM

Sorry, I didn't mean to define selig as silly, just to show the sounds it evolved into in modern English. 

Thanks for the explanation of the g pronunciations and the church/kirk clarification. It seems most of the bizarre inconsistencies of the English language can be explained by which language they were borrowed from. I have come across a number of place names where the OE root starting with c has evolved into a K name (e.g. Kelsey in Lincolnshire, spelled Chelsi in the Domesday Book... Kelbrook in Lancashire, spelled Chelbroc in Domesday... Kensington, spelled Chenesitun in Domesday... et cetera). I assume many of these just changed from Scandinavian influence? Many of them are in the north of England, but not all. 

How did yogh get into knight? I thought the OE word was cniht... 

30
By rooo
June 5, 2017 9:29 PM

I'm going to ignore the middle options for now and focus on the first names. IMO, the ones that work best in an English-domininated culture are: Ayaz, Balamir, Erdenay, Erem, Ibrahim, Omur, Rua and Talu

Every time I see Fatih I read it as Faith misspelled, though it's not my first time seeing the name. Kayra I think most English speakers would assume is a girl due to the similarities with Kara and Kayla, but obviously that would change upon meeting him. 

31
June 6, 2017 7:05 AM

I agree with your Faith/Fatih combo and I actually had this problem writing in Turkish and I created Faith Sultan Mehmed lmao. But I am glad my favorites are usable. 

32
June 9, 2017 5:50 AM

Others have addressed the names international usability. I'll just focus on what I like (in the most subjective way possible; what letter combinations/meanings appeal to me).

I like Öktem. It seems to have a pleasant weight to it. Çagri Aslan mainly for the accents (I can't find the accent on the g on my keyboard but I like names with accents. Aslan is a pleasing name to people who read children's literature, being the name of the god-like lion figure in CS Lewis' Narnia books.

I like Sungur, because I looked up the bird and it's a beauty. I like bird/nature names in general.

And Masal because I love fairy tales and the idea that this would be a fitting name for a boy (most whimsical imagery being considered "unmasculine" in English).

Oh, and as someone else abroad, I know how tempting it is to share your name ideas even though the people on this site aren't always able to reply properly... this is such a good site for thoughtful feedback and there seem to be no name discussion websites in my language in question!

33
June 9, 2017 2:34 PM

I agree that Aslan is both exotic and pleasingly familiar... although my eldest the other day was talking to me about "Allison" in the Narnia books (he's just finished the first), and I was confused until it slowly dawned on me that he was discussing Aslan! (He has never been a fan of phonics and has become a voracious reader entirely using sight words and context, which is super but has definite shortcomings with names. Geronimo Stilton, another favorite book series, was about "Grandma S-something-not-even-close-to-Stilton", and he straight up didn't believe me that the name was Geronimo until I worked through all the letter sounds with him. He sighed, longsuffering -- he *knows* the letter sounds, but is deeply bored by sounding things out -- and then giggled that Geronimo was a terrible name anyway, to which I was able to retort that I always liked it but the action of his other parent prevented him from being named Hieronymous.) 

34
June 9, 2017 6:49 PM

Çağrı is scary because it has cedilla, soft g and dotless i but it might be easy to say too. Ç is ch as I mentioned before and soft g has No sound of its own. Dotless i has the sound of ae in Michael. Aslan is a Narnia character which makes it familiar but he isn't God like in Turkey. Aslan is the zodiac sign of Leo, the animal lion and a historical character Alpaslan. Thank you for liking Öktem - it is a name for the center pole inside of a yurt and also a literature character. I first heard Masal on a boy in a TV series in Turkey and absolutely fall in love with the name, and couldn't believe they used the name on a boy since it felt feminine the first time. I love bird names too! And nature names in general. I will try to post more about Turkish and Turkic (both Shaz and Lir) names or names I like from different cultures like Lazuri, Circassian and Albanian from now on.